Combat, what's the deal?

[flyinj]

So, I put a few more hours into this Last night... I'm coming away a little leery. The scope of the game is there, and the customization is really nice... it's just that I'm not really getting the combat. I think I may be not understanding exactly how you're supposed to go about things. I have two good beam weapons on the front of my ship, but they seem totally random as to how long they fire and when they fire. I know the enemy ship is in my forward arc, and I have the enemy ship at about 50 range. Sometimes I get a nice long sustained beam on the target, and sometimes it Lasts for about half a second. Sometimes both weapons fire, sometimes only one does. This is all keeping the ship within 50 km(?) range, which is an optimal range for the stats of my beam weapons.

Anyone have any advice?

[Phoenix-D]

Look closely. The time of the beam depends on two things:

1. If it misses, it will stop firing.
2. If the target moves out of the arc, it will stop firing

The two front guns also probably have slightly different arcs, since they're on different points of the ship.

[Krsqk]

P-D is right about the time the beam Lasts. The staggered firing happens when you have more than one weapon in a weapon group and either 1) they have different reload/recharge times, or 2) only one weapon was able to reload/recharge due to a lack of energy. I personally set my front left weapon on 1 and my front right weapon on 2 (and both are still APB's, just like in SEIV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ). I never really found a feasible design using the front heavy slots or any of the side slots. After all, the Terran Battlecruisers only have front weapons, and look how long they survive! */me wonders if that was the best example to pick* At least in the demo, I haven't found a ship which leaves room for more weaps after getting enough power (100kt) and defense (30-40kt shields and 20-30kt armor).

[Phoenix-D]

Um, what exactly do you need a 100kt reactor for? I think the ship I finished the demo in had about 50kt of power, twin CSMs and four APBs. Sure, I couldn't fire non-stop, but since they were on differing arcs that didn't matter..and I COULD fire non-stop with all the forward weapons.

[bor]

why 100kt power? In the demo I just haven't seen power as that big an issue, 50kt seems fine for a cruiser, and that's running 4 beams 2 heavies, and 2 point defence cannons.

In the components file at least, nothing other than weapons show any energy consumption.

[Phoenix-D]

Ooo. Check some of the other weapons before you roll eyes too much at those APBs.

Tachyon cannons are nasty, for one. Shield-skipping, weigh only 5kt more, and do the same damage as an APB- and use less power! I have one of those and one Incinerator Beam on my current ship.

[Krsqk]

I like to be able to fire non-stop into my enemies, destroy them, and still have a little energy left to start on the next one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I use the 2 APBs with 2 PDC, and unless I'm fighting a missile-heavy battlegroup, I don't have many problems. I'll have to check out the tachyon cannons, though--I'd prefer the extra 20 ls range and smaller size of the APBs, but shield-skipping is sure a pain when used against me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Torps are nice, but most enemies have PDCs at higher difficulties, and firing at extreme range is pretty much a waste due to enemy maneuvering (except when fighting starbases, when it's quite the opposite). I really only found torps useful against ships when firing at near-point-blank range from behind, when they could strip the shields fairly quickly. Thing is, the APBs are at least as good at that range.

As for the left and right arcs, I find the time used in turning to aim at my enemy is good for recharging energy; not to mention it's easier for me to track a single target at a time. I wouldn't mind a few rear-facing weapon arcs, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif *shrug* Difference in style, I guess.

[Krsqk]

[edit for styoopid double post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif ]

[ October 09, 2003, 03:09: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Ooo. Check some of the other weapons before you roll eyes too much at those APBs.

Tachyon cannons are nasty, for one. Shield-skipping, weigh only 5kt more, and do the same damage as an APB- and use less power! I have one of those and one Incinerator Beam on my current ship.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I currently have a cruiser with 2 tachyon cannons forward mounted and 2 PPB's side mounted. I do mucho shield skipping damage on the way in, then turn and fire the PPB's, incase you have phased armor, for maximum damage per strike!!

[Tracer]

Granted that I've only played the demo so far, the key to killing enemy ships, especially when they're in Groups, is to kill them fast before they have time to wear down your shields and armor. The best method I've found is to mount two toxic injectors firing in the same arc. They are in different weapon banks. When an enemy ship makes an attack run fire the injectors a second or so apart. If the enemy ship has point defence one torp will be destroyed, but the other will hit. Two hits from injectors will kill a destroyer and four will kill a cruiser. That's one salvo if the destroyer has no point defence and two for a cruiser with no defence. Your own ship must have point defence to kill fighters. With this setup I've jumped into a system right on top of a cruiser and two destroyers who got the first shot in, however, they all died and I survived. Also, as a bonus, the components their exploding ships leave are usually undamaged, no need to repair before selling them.

[ October 22, 2003, 01:33: Message edited by: Tracer ]

[Suicide Junkie]

I think the best way to kill enemy fleets is to have a fleet of your own ;)
Joining up with a TCN fleet, or having a squadron of fighters deployed are the easiest methods.

Especially with fighters, you can hit them, then recharge quickly and send 'em out for another attack.
If you have multiple fighter bays, you can recover and repair the damaged ones while the rest continue to pound the enemy to dust. :D

[Renegade 13]

Welcome to the forums Tracer!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Wardad]

Toxic Injectors rule in the demo.They can finish off a ship quick.
I was amazed by the results. I don't think the armor has to be all gone either. You definitly do not have to sit there and blugeon a crippled enemy.

I used the Tachyon cannons for a while,
but they do not match up well with the torps.
The advanced armor can be stonger than the shields.

It was nice using that 6Okt armor piercing torp for a while.
It could be matched up with the shield depeleters, but they are so under powered you might as well use regular guns.
So generally you end up destroying the armor anyway, and only get an early torp hit or two passed the armor.

I am getting advanced in the demo and my torps are getting shot down by PD.
When I buy the cruiser, I bet I could jiggle the ship and have three torps in flight.

[Renegade 13]

Toxic injectors are only of limited usefullness, and usually early in the game. Early on, there's nothing that can beat them. 2 hits for a destroyer, 3 for a cruiser. However, as you advance, they become almost useless, except at very close range (before PD cannons can shoot them down). Later in the game all enemy ships pack PD cannons and render your TI torps useless.

Oh and a hint. ALWAYS pack 2-3 PD cannons. Toxic injectors can be used against you too, and couple of hits and you're out of it...for good. Personally, I pack 4, but that's overkill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif You only need that if you mod in a pirate system with 200 or so ships waiting when you get there. But I'm just a glutton for punishment I guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Renegade 13