List of oddities

[Phoenix-D]

These are those things that are amusing or annoying, and probably bugs..but aren't worth bugging MM about by themselves. So I figure we can add them into a list and sent -that-.

First few:

-hitting yourself with a mine will make Terran units fire on you (I suppose because you shot a terran ship..)

-the Terran Starbase- and maybe others- can shoot itself with its missiles.

-no way to mod the radar display to show other than full, 300, 150, or 75 (I think)

-non-commented data files (SE4 had a listing of what everything does at the top of the files..SF lacks this)

-no way to make weapons that are more accurate, or that have minimum ranges

Speaking of which, what the heck does the emmisive armor damage resistance do, anyway?

EDIT: a few more..

Why does the manual list the out-system speed slowing as conserving fuel..when you can't even mod in energy useage for anything other than a weapon? (or maybe a shield capacitator pod..)

Cloaking. I have seen sensors to detect cloaked ships..I have yet to see a cloaking device.

[ October 15, 2003, 00:03: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Speaking of which, what the heck does the emmisive armor damage resistance do, anyway?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It reduces the hull damage you take by X%

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Cloaking. I have seen sensors to detect cloaked ships..I have yet to see a cloaking device.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. Hard to do Romulans without them... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

you know, it would be funny if other terran ships shot at the starbase after it shoots itself with a missile.

[Phoenix-D]

Another..

-there doesn't seem to be a way to control which components are right-click useable and destroyed on use, and which aren't.

-anyone figured how the stealth cruisers in campaign 2 work yet? Just from looking at the files, I can't tell..

I'd love to be wrong on a lot of these, since the modding seems to have so much potential, but there's all these odd ommisions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Mehrunes]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
-there doesn't seem to be a way to control which components are right-click useable and destroyed on use, and which aren't.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm guessing any component with one or more effects and a placement location of 'None' works that way. Makes sense because there's no other purpose to adding an effect to a component that can't be installed anywhere.

-anyone figured how the stealth cruisers in campaign 2 work yet? Just from looking at the files, I can't tell..<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They don't exist. There's no Fazrah Cruiser S in the enemies file.

[ October 15, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: Mehrunes ]

[Phoenix-D]

Hmm, could have sworn there was a cruiser/M in that group too. Ah well, it'll wait for the patch.

[ColdSteel]

If a Terran fighter smashes into your ship then all of the other Terran ships will start shooting at you. Even if you didn't shoot at the fighter at all and were just trying to avoid his drunk driving.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 16, 2003, 21:11: Message edited by: ColdSteel ]

[Phoenix-D]

correction on one of them..

-the Terran Starbase- and maybe others- can shoot itself with its missiles.

This was actually the satelites stationed around the starbase shooting it.

[Phoenix-D]

More, this time unconfirmed bugs:

-First time I used Flailers, I got a access violation crash.

-Attempting to make point defense -beams- always gives me a Range Check Error crash.

-auto-firing doesn't seem to work if applied to weapons that shoot ships, like anti-proton beams. They fire maybe once, but not after that.

EDIT to add:

-directed torps always crash the game

-the "end game" event doesn't work

-negative offset values in stores.txt doesn't work.

[ October 22, 2003, 22:17: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Captain Kwok]

Be sure to report all errors to Aaron. I know that some of the problems you've encountered are being addressed.

Cloaking Devices are a high priority for a future patch.

Aaron also wants to put together a modding manual for SF - just hasn't had time for it yet.

The "Stealth" cruiser is just a description and not a real ship... yet - well, see above about cloaking.

Friendly fire incidents have been an issue with the beta testers and should have a high priority for a future patch.

[Phoenix-D]

Yeah, I noticed that in the chat. Once I get the bugs confirmed I'll report them; the rest I was waiting until we have a nice list of them to send.

I especially want to nail down this weird flailer crash..so far, no luck.

[Phoenix-D]

Still haven't nailed down the flailer crash, BUT! Directed torps do work.

The specific weapon type in bitmap effects must be the same as the weapon type, or SF crashes.

I kinda wish SF was more like SE4 in this regard- you CAN'T crash SE4 mid-game with a bad component. It just won't load in the first place..

[Drax]

I'm not certain if this one was just me going insane or a genuine bug.

I want into a system, accepted a pirate mercenary mission, but died before I saved the game. When I loaded my game, the mission was gone! And I didnt have it...

When a ship crashes into an asteroid or planet, some of the cargo is created 'inside' the astrab body. I want a tractor beam!!

If you pick something up from a store by mistake and put it back again, you are chared some money for it (I think).

May or may not be existing bugs...I'll check em when I get home.

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by Drax:
If you pick something up from a store by mistake and put it back again, you are chared some money for it (I think).<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is not a bug. Starfury stores operate on the "you grab it, you buy it" system. Just hover the pointer over the item to get its stats - don't pick it up unless you want to pay for it.

[Ed Kolis]

But if you sell something accidentally, you can buy it back for the same price if you don't leave spacedock, so why shouldn't it work the other way? (Maybe to prevent recharging your shields by installing a fresh generator... haven't played with that much...)

[Phoenix-D]

Can't be that Ed, since your shields are auto-recharged when you dock.

[Drax]

I noticed a n odd one Last night. I was trying out fighter swarms, to see how well they worked (pants, as it turned out for me) and when on fighter blows up, all of my point defence cannons start firing on the about-to-explode fighter. Really, I think that fighters should not be able to crash into each other, or me. In just one batter I lost 8 of my 12 fighters because they crash into things.

I'll just have to mod it so fighters are twice as powerfull, and twice as big. Less fighters should make them crash less often.

[Drax]

'If you pick something up from a store by mistake and put it back again, you are chared some money for it (I think).'

Well...I dont think you do anymore. Anyone else had the thing where you go to a system to a 'destroy a ship' mercenary mission, leave the system cos you got your butt kicked, and when you come back to the system the target you have to kill does not exist?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
-auto-firing doesn't seem to work if applied to weapons that shoot ships, like anti-proton beams. They fire maybe once, but not after that.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is one that I hope gets fixed soon. I want to be able to mod ships with a few really big, non-autofiring weapons with long recharge times, and a whole bunch of autofiring guns that work constantly.

[Wardad]

Unfair to Lefties.

Need ability to remap keys.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Wardad:
Unfair to Lefties.

Need ability to remap keys. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In-game menu -> Controls -> click key window -> press new key

[Wardad]

what? more work?

[Phoenix-D]

You can also add this:

speed slowing damage and true engine damage behave differently. If you are hit with a speed slowing weapon, you slowly drop down to your new speed. If your engines take damage you drop to your new speed -instantly-.

I'd prefer them both to work like speed-slowing damage does, myself..

[Taz-in-Space]

Have just recently seen a REAL oddity...

An INVISIBLE PLANET!!!

Yep, I entered the system as instructed and docked with a starbase. I got my next instructions and left. On the way out of the system, I hit something invisible!

So I reloaded the autosave game for that system and on way to the Starbase, I saw what I hit... a
planet! This planet was NOT there (at least not visible) on my first entry to system!!

I had previously encountered ships that were not visible, except for a strange light effect, and I thought they must be cloaked - now I wonder if the game glitched while displaying them.

Anybody else see one of these invisible planets? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

(...and no my navigator was NOT drunk!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
You can also add this:

speed slowing damage and true engine damage behave differently. If you are hit with a speed slowing weapon, you slowly drop down to your new speed. If your engines take damage you drop to your new speed -instantly-.

I'd prefer them both to work like speed-slowing damage does, myself.. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Under a SF QNP system, taking engine damage would cause you to coast along at a constant speed and be unable to turn or stop... The speed slowing damage would actually cause you to slow down.
Interesting effects, and it would solve the problem of engine damage being too deadly. Rather than being stuck there, you'd tend to sail by and hopefully have enough manoeuvering power to avoid any planets and asteroid belts in your path http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
[QUOTE]Under a SF QNP system, taking engine damage would cause you to coast along at a constant speed and be unable to turn or stop... The speed slowing damage would actually cause you to slow down.
Interesting effects, and it would solve the problem of engine damage being too deadly. Rather than being stuck there, you'd tend to sail by and hopefully have enough manoeuvering power to avoid any planets and asteroid belts in your path http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">SJ, this was after I implimented a quasi-QNP system. Perhaps I did it wrong, but what I did was give the hulls a high maximum speed and put the turning/acceleration on the engines.

[Suicide Junkie]

The top speed referenced in the ship hull is just the point at which normal engines stop having any effect (some sort of structural stress derived speed limit)

One of the key points is that the actual top speed (sum over "propulsion base" divided by "# engine slots") should have nothing to do with the engines.

So, even if your engines are completely destroyed, you'll still have a top speed of say 10,000.

[Phoenix-D]

SJ, propulsion base appears to give speed..if you take it away from the engines, you just move it to some other component which now acts like an engine..and if that gets damaged, you stop.

EDIT: unless, I suppose, it can be put on the hull itself..?

[ November 01, 2003, 19:07: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Putting it on the hull would be the best choice, but I don't think it is possible yet. (I've made a request for it)

Alternatively, you could give propulsion base to EVERY component. Only once you're down to like 5 hitpoints will you notice a forced slowdown, at which point you're dead anyways.

[Phoenix-D]

Of course, unlike SE4 you can't make an ability that doesn't show up, so all the components would show that in a mouseover..

[Phoenix-D]

EDIT: wrong thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 01, 2003, 21:35: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Wardad]

I was on the campaigns protect pirate base mission.

Pirate Space Station fired on me after recovering illegal item. Stopped firing after ejecting item.

I can understand the TCN starbase firing on me for illegal cargo. But, not the pirates.
It must be a copy the program code thing.

[Phoenix-D]

A good oddity, and probably something useful for modders:

"Planet" is a valid target type. Nothing else extra seems to work, but this does. So the list for targets includes Ship, Base, Fighter, Satelite, Torpedo, and Planet.

This does NOT let you shoot planets by itself, since they aren't destroyables. But it would let you do that with a little modding..

[Taz-in-Space]

...Taz reads the previous post and immediately has daydreams of destroying WHOLE WORLDS! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

It's one of those 'little things' in life that keeps a Taz happy!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. Now if we could only destroy a star... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ November 17, 2003, 02:48: Message edited by: Taz-in-Space ]

[Phoenix-D]

You could do that to. Just give it a target type of planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

It is odd though; giving something in the purchaseship enemy file an asteroid for a model works fine. Giving it a model of a planet crashes the game..

[Taz-in-Space]

Hmmm, something about how the program handles textures? Try something else graphically simple - like a sun?...

[Phoenix-D]

Found the problem. Override textures don't work for ships, and there WAS no default texture for that .x file. Making one fixed the issue.

What this means, is you need a seperate .x file and texture for each killable planet. Not a big deal, since you don't want too many of them- each will have its own AI, and lots of them will slow the game down.

[Phoenix-D]

And after a little messing around, I now have a completely functional, attackable Planet Earth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Blows up real good, burns nicely too (which looks strange). Still need to edit the firing points for the "weapon platforms" and give it a proper portrait.

EDIT: well, not completely functional. About every other time I start up, I crash with an invalid floating point. Hmm.

[ November 17, 2003, 04:02: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Taz-in-Space]

The game crashes on start-up? That would seem to indicate that a variable field was getting bad input - except that SHOULD crash it EVERY time...

Does it crash only after going through on a RELOAD? That would indicate that the bad value was being generated IN THE GAME.
Try this: load program from scratch, if no error then save and then blow up planet; and reload saved game. If it crashes on a RELOAD, that would indicate the bad value IS generated.
If above happens: Try load from scratch and play as above. BUT then get out of game ENTIRELY. Then load on a fresh start - If no error then you just proved the above. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If the crash error is truly random then I haven't any suggestions... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Phoenix-D]

As far as I can tell, it only crashes the first time I start the game with a DIFFERENT ship type (I have two).

So, if I select the Terran Destroyer to start, crash. If I restart and select the destroyer again, all is well.

If I restart and select the Gunboat, crash. And vice versa..

[Taz-in-Space]

That would seem to indicate that there are some files loaded at the start of a NEW ship that is NOT loaded when using a ship same as the Last one loaded...

And I take it that this crash did NOT happen before the planet was blown up? Weird!

Sounds like a job for the Mighty Malfador Machinations Mastermind!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

The crash occurs just as the game is starting, as you click off the intro text..haven't had time to troubleshoot.

[Phoenix-D]

A little more testing..and it seems that if an ENEMY ship has the target type of planet, the crash can occur. A Player ship (starting or purchased) can have a target type of planet, no problem..

EDIT: and changing campaigndata.txt (to point to purchaseshipsplayer) then changing the enemy files to match fixes that problem..

And copying some of the existing entries over fixes THAT. So there is something different between the player ship entries and the default enemy entries that prevents the crash from occuring.

[ November 19, 2003, 23:40: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Phoenix-D]

Oops. Embarrassed I didn't think of that earlier.

Changing the target type also changes the components that can be placed on the unit. Set it to planet and by default NOTHING fits. So game can't place any components on the ship, and as you might have noticed SF doesn't like that. Adding Planet components, or adding default components in (which is what the player file has that the enemy file doesn't), fixes the issue.

[Taz-in-Space]

Great!! Whoo-hoo!!!

Then I take it that Taz will soon be able to DESTROY WHOLE PLANETS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

You'll have to wait a while. It might be in my campaign, but I still need to finish the map before I can start on that.

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Taz-in-Space:
Great!! Whoo-hoo!!!

Then I take it that Taz will soon be able to DESTROY WHOLE PLANETS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And thus did the earth go "NERK NERK NERK NERK" and spin around wildly and emit all sorts of flames and sparks... and then suddenly disappear, to be replaced by an oddly heart-shaped explosion... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

(Teletubbies with stellar manipulation? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

[Devilsbane]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
And thus did the earth go "NERK NERK NERK NERK" and spin around wildly and emit all sorts of flames and sparks... and then suddenly disappear, to be replaced by an oddly heart-shaped explosion... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

(Teletubbies with stellar manipulation? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) [/QB]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, the most elderly gentleman from your crew will turn to you and say 'I felt a great disturbance in the force.' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 20, 2003, 15:59: Message edited by: Devilsbane ]

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Taz-in-Space:
Great!! Whoo-hoo!!!

Then I take it that Taz will soon be able to DESTROY WHOLE PLANETS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And thus did the earth go "NERK NERK NERK NERK" and spin around wildly and emit all sorts of flames and sparks... and then suddenly disappear, to be replaced by an oddly heart-shaped explosion... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

(Teletubbies with stellar manipulation? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, while it does flame by damage, the model's size prevents the usual explosions from appearing, and it can be preventing from noticbly spinning. At the end of that, it just vanishes to be replaced by the ring explosion.

(and don't tempt me to mod in a "I felt a disturbace" message when you kill a planet..it can be done. Sorta.)

[Ed Kolis]

But you can't stop it from going "NERK NERK NERK NERK", right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
But you can't stop it from going "NERK NERK NERK NERK", right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes I can. Already have..

[Devilsbane]

Hmmm, just something off the top of my head. Could you make this planet/ship able for use by enemies and allies? That would make it possible to script the ability to make planets and moons orbit gravitation centers of solar systems and other planets. Just think of the whole new class of Planet components to keep the population happy, health, and safe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Drake113]

Originally posted by Devilsbane:
Hmmm, just something off the top of my head. Could you make this planet/ship able for use by enemies and allies? That would make it possible to script the ability to make planets and moons orbit gravitation centers of solar systems and other planets. Just think of the whole new class of Planet components to keep the population happy, health, and safe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting thought. You should be able to do this since things like the starbases behave both as dockable items (ie have an entry in the Main_Sites.txt file) but also can have components installed on it (an entry in Main_PurchaseShipsEnemy.txt should do this, I think). The big trick, however, is to get it to recognize Planet as a valid Target Type. Then, you could make it so that only planetary seige weapons could be used against it, and that really massive weapons could be mounted on it (both can be done by editing the Main_Components.txt file). I don't know if Starfury will let you add a new target type, though.

[Phoenix-D]

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, a Target Type of planet works juust fine.

The hard part for this idea is A scriping the movement, and B making sure the new orbit doesn't run into anything.

[Devilsbane]

Planetary collisions would be part of the fun. Asteroid collision detentions (and destruction) could be made into a mission. During conflict planets would actuary be able to participate unless of course they are NEUTRAL planet (that deal in illegal cargo). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Plus planet dodging may become a helpful skill in large fleet battles.

[ November 25, 2003, 16:02: Message edited by: Devilsbane ]

[Manathor]

Hello all

Has anyone else noticed that PD fires 180 degrees from the incoming warheads? And has anyone else figured why it does it and how to stop it? Right now, I don't even bother to mount PD as it is useless.

Thanks!

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Manathor:
Hello all

Has anyone else noticed that PD fires 180 degrees from the incoming warheads? And has anyone else figured why it does it and how to stop it? Right now, I don't even bother to mount PD as it is useless.

Thanks! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, and no. I have heard people complaining that modder PD will do that, but not stock PD.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Manathor:
Hello all

Has anyone else noticed that PD fires 180 degrees from the incoming warheads? And has anyone else figured why it does it and how to stop it? Right now, I don't even bother to mount PD as it is useless.

Thanks! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This happens if you increase the speed of torpedo weapons as it appears to be plotting the wrong trajectory for interception.. You might try increasing the speed of the PD bolts and see if that helps solve the problem.

[Manathor]

Well, time for the next odd thing I have noticed..

While working on a MAJOR redesign of the ships, I noticed values in the main_purchaseshipsplayer file. There are values for base armor, shield, and energy. Has anyone got them to work?

I added the values that Aaron listed in the bottom of the file, but when you do that, it causes a sporatic 'invalid floating point' error. Sometimes you can play the ship, most times you cant, and if you change the values back to zero, it still crashes. And the increased values do not show up on the ship.

Anybody have any thoughts on this one? I really need those values to work for the redesign.

Thanks

[Ed Kolis]

Those are from early beta Versions, when (believe it or not) ships didn't have a component damage model - you had 3 sets of hitpoints: hull, armor, and shields. (No facings either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) When your hull ran out you died, just like now. But instead of gaining their hull hitpoints from their components, ships got them from the entries you found, so a destroyer might have 100 hull, 100 armor, and 100 shields, with armor and shield generators adding 50 to the appropriate counter. (There were a lot fewer component slots back then, too. Thank Imperator Fyron and PvK for pushing for detail http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) I'm not entirely sure why changing them would cause an invalid floating point error; my guess would be that it would either give inflated readouts for ship hitpoints or make ships invincible (they would have HP that can't be taken away no matter what)... but who knows the internal workings of this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif