Broader Release?

[Potatoman]

Now that Shrapnel Games is publishing Dominions II can we expect to actually see the game on shelves, or will it still be availible only through internet ordering websites?

[Richard]

It won't be in traditional retail, if that is what your asking.

We actually like to make money for our developers, not rip them off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Richard:
It won't be in traditional retail, if that is what your asking.

We actually like to make money for our developers, not rip them off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">strange behavior! Are you sane, you are only a minority doing that, and we all know that the majority is always right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ September 24, 2003, 21:28: Message edited by: Pocus ]

[Yojinbo]

Shrapnel is broad enough for this fan. A marriage of two of my favoriate gaming powers! If we execute the same word of mouth marketing campaign that the DomI players did maybe retail will be begging for DomIII.

Yo

Ps - I wonder if Shrapnel will offer the volume discount I got when I bought 5 copies of DomI? - I can't trust my slacker friends to get the good games on their own.

[Richard]

Let me be honest with everyone. We could put Dominions and any number of other games in retail. But retail makes money for the publishers, not the developer. That's why we founded Shrapnel to let small developers make money and control their products.

Most developers make nothing at retail and only survive on the advances they get for games publishers force them to make. There are exceptions, but not for the most part.

I know the perception is different, but that's the way the industry is.

[Pocus]

I think that on average the developing studio will get, at best, 10 to 15% of the selling price, when the publisher is selling retail. Well this is what I read on game dev sites, but if Richard want to educate us, I would be glad to get some up to dates figures.

[Tim Brooks]

I think that on average the developing studio will get, at best, 10 to 15% of the selling price<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea, but that's the publishers selling price - NOT retail price. A $45.00 game at retail grosses the publisher between $18.00 to $24.00, depending on how they determine costs. Now, they do not pay you until costs are recovered, using your 12% (industry average) to offset that. Plus they don't pay you for "promotional" copies. They use promotional copies to offset advertising, shelf space buy-ins, and catalog buy-ins (all needed to be in retail). So the mass merchant wants $20,000 for a month on the New Releases shelf. The publisher covers half the cost with free games to the mass merchant, these get sold but you don't get paid for them.

Now after 3-6 weeks (it was a really good game) the price to retail is cut in half. So the publisher is now making under $10 per game with virtually no lessening of expenses.

Okay, now put in the average sales of a new release at retail - somewhere under 5,000 units.

Do you see where this is going...?

[Richard]

Stars was also published by Empire Interactive which also probably increased those numbers.

The other thing Tim didn't mention is the ridiculous marketing costs required by retailers to put a game into retail. Also publishers normally tack on additional magazine advertising and such.

That's one of the reasons many publishers are moving to consoles versus the PC Market. They make many more sales on the console market that can make up for these issues.

[Pocus]

to clarify, as english is not native to me :

12% of the 18-24$ you mean, and only after getting back the bugdget given to the dev studio ???

is it secret or can we know what is the number of units sold by the bigger success in Shrapnel catalogue (SE IV?). I'm not asking of $ figures here, just # of units.

only 5000 on average for retail sells ???
There was persistent rumors that Jeff mcBride said one time (the head developer of Stars!, Mare Crisium, may the studio rest in peace) that all Version of Stars! cumulated, 60.000 to 90.000 units were sold. And it was only shareware, sold Online, without any marketing power like Shrapnel now have.