New Pretenders?

[Nerfix]

I would like to know few things about the ne Pretenders in Dominions II:
What are Divine Emperor like, Ghost King and Vampire Queen like?
Anything other intresting new Pretenders?
Does Vanheim have a giant wolf pretender?
Does Pangaea have an "Ancient Lord"(y'know a huge, evil, inteligent minotaur-dragon hybrid Carrion Beast) pretender?
(IW, i know the cost was straigth towards *BLEEP* but it was those days when screenshots told me that Carrion Wood theme costs 150 design points...)

[Mortifer]

I heard about a half-dragon/half-demon pretender: Mortifer!

Er but maybe my infos are fake. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Psitticine]

Here are a few of my favorite Pretenders . . .

(Damn, if I get that damn song in my head now . . . )

Anyway, some of these may be present in Dom I, so please pardon any redundancy. I have lists of what spells and items are new, but don't have anything listing which Pretenders have been added. This is also nowhere near a complete list. Even though I've been playing and playing and playing, there are still so many Pretender options that I haven't had a chance to sample them all. Here are some of my favs though, along with the specific ones you're asking about:

The ***** Queen: An ancient werewolf alpha-***** who receives support from her pack during combat. She can appear either as the Crone (with full spell-casting powers) or transform instantly (and will do so automatically if wounded in melee) into her Werewolf form (which comes with terrific combat abilities).

The Lichs: There are several varieties of Lich, including a Sauromancer Lich. They may be highly flamable, but they're awesome as long as nobody has a match. Their magic combined with their immortality means they really can dominate a battlefield.

The Allfather: There's no Fenrir Ulf Pretender I know of, unfortunately (although you can wear his pelt as an item http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ). Wotan himself makes an appearance, however. He comes with Air and Death magic, a flying eight-legged horse, only one eye, and is stealthy.

The Phoenix: Immortal fire-bird. OK, it's a bird thing, but I love the Phoenix. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The Ghost King: Equipped with a Rod of Death and with a legion of ghosts that appear when his Dominion is strong, he's back to reclaim his old turf. Let's hope Nixon doesn't try the same thing!

The Vampire Queen: Ethereal, flying, and much tougher than that poser Elizabeth of Batheny, she has vampires who will appear to aid her within her Dominion. She's also immortal, stealthy, and regenerates!

The Lord of the Wild: This may be who you are thinking of for Pangaea, or possibly his descendent in the design process. He is a bit tired of this failed experiment called "civilization" and has decided to put an end to it. He attracts maenids in huge numbers and has Blood and Nature magic. He also is stealthy and a beserker. Oh, and he has an awesome set of antlers. Cernunnos is back, and he's spoiling for a Wild Hunt!

The Freak Lord: He's pretty much like the archmage (10 points per magic path) but he rides a giant Freak that changes from nation to nation. He's a super freak, super freak, he's super freaky! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The Jade Emperor: You can see him in one of the screenshots just added. He's the big fellow in the Chinese robes. He is the ruler of T'ien Ch'i and comes equipped with suitable powers. He's a nice balance between the pure magic types like the archmage and the heavy combat types like the wyrm.

The Monolith: I'm throwing this one in for my partner, the Giraffe. She won her first game with the Monolith, which is a powerful but immobile rock. It's a big rock. It's a smart rock. It will, it will . . . ROCK YOU! (OK, that's over the line, but I couldn't help it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) Big time magical skills and near-indestructability neatly balance out the fact it can't move until you research Teleport and the like for it.

A half-dragon, half-demon Pretender isn't ringing a bell right now, but I could easily be overlooking somebody. Possibily somebody from a specific nation?

[Mortifer]

Eh, I was just dreaming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Mortifer the Cruel [half-dragon/half-demon]! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

PS. I love these pretenders, especially the Ghost King/Vampire Queen.

PS2. The ***** Queen -> Isn't ***** a foul word? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
[You meant witch queen maybe?]

[ September 30, 2003, 16:13: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

[Nerfix]

I could post "Ancient Lord", a Pretender i designed, with the corrections if anybody is intrested...

[ September 30, 2003, 16:56: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Psitticine]

Feel free! Dunno if it'd ever make into the game or anything, but I'm sure everybody would be interested in seeing it!

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Still no one-eyed pyramid?

[Daynarr]

I'm currently playing with Vampire Queen and I must say she is SOMETHING! Aside from the fact that she's immortal, the vampires that show up are also immortal! Add to that all the benefits of undead, death and blood magic and mix them with right race (Tien Chi in this case) and you get stew ... err … nasty combo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Another good pretender:

Lord of the Desert Sun: It’s giant with Lion Head that lives far from civilization and desert is his realm. Has fire immunity, starts with fire level 2 and nature level 1. Additional effect is that at each battle 4 great lions will come to his aid (doesn't matter if he’s fighting in his own dominion). This bad boy shows only for Machaka and Abyssia and he is the one responsible for romping 500 kills with Fire Darts mostly (from another post). When I play with him I usually get 100 kills in first 10 turns. He costs 125 points so you need to be careful when distributing points, but since both Abyssia and Machaka prefer Heat scales, you will get some points back there.

[Nerfix]

Ok, here is my suggested god:

Ancient Lord
New god for Pangaea(meant to be used with the Carrion Woods theme)
Costs 75* points
Looks like a giant two headed Minotaur Carrion Beast with another head of a dragon and with 4 arms.

Automaticaly summons several (1-4) Carrion Beast in a turn**.

The ancient lord is a embodiement of forces that have slept since man came. Now it has woken up and seeks to crush those who have forgotten the nature and it's incredible forces. The Ancient Lord has incorporated many mighty and dead beings to his body of vines and moss. He is skilled user of nature and death magic and also a formidable fighter.

Pretender god, Undead, Fear(-3), Inanimate*** and Poison Immunity

Magic:Nature 2, Death 2,other paths cost 30

HP:55
Prot:5
Str:16
Att:11
Def:10
Mr:19
Ap:16
Enc:0
Fat:0
Prec:12
Mrl:50
Ldr:
Normal:50
Undead:75
Magic:20
Size:Same as minotaur(4?)
(has 2 head slots and 4 arm slots, if the flexible item slots are still in the game...)

Weapons:
Sleep Vines
Sleep Vines
Claws
Bite

* Unsure about the cost
** Carrion Beasts don't seem to be so migthy, but if i am wrong, please correct me...
*** Are Manikins/Mandagoras/Carrion Beasts Inanimate? If not, then this one isn't either.

So, what do you think? Input is more than welcome.

[ September 30, 2003, 19:59: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Yojinbo]

Nerfix,

I never thought about 2 head and 4 hand slots before! Will this be in Dominions II?

That could get a bit crazy if you load him up with items (I guess that's the point). 4 cumulative swords of quickness? Druid Kings Crown and Amon Hotep?

Would he have no boot slot because his feet are a mass of roots and bones?

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Yojinbo:
Nerfix,

I never thought about 2 head and 4 hand slots before! Will this be in Dominions II?

That could get a bit crazy if you load him up with items (I guess that's the point). 4 cumulative swords of quickness? Druid Kings Crown and Amon Hotep?

Would he have no boot slot because his feet are a mass of roots and bones?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Nataraja has 4 weapon slots, the Wyrm 2 head slots, the Ettin two heads and 3 or 4 arm slots etc in Dom 2. There is also a new fx ambidextrous that makes units differently skilled at wielding multiple weapons, the Nataraja excels at this.

[ October 01, 2003, 13:55: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[Psitticine]

Nerfix,

I like it! Have you considered adding regeneration, since he could pick up new biomatter to "patch" himself during combat?

[Psitticine]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
The Nataraja has 4 weapon slots, the Wyrm 2 head slots, the Wttin two heads and 3 or 4 arm slots etc in Dom 2. There is also a new fx ambidextrous that makes units differently skilled at wielding multiple weapons, the Nataraja excels at this.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know why, but I love equipping Pretenders like that with weird combos of "opposing" magical items, like two ice swords in two hands and two fire swords in the other hands. It's an odd bit of fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Psitticine:
Nerfix,

I like it! Have you considered adding regeneration, since he could pick up new biomatter to "patch" himself during combat?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If it wouldn't make it too powerfull, then it's ok to add regeneration.
I also thougth about adding Claws as weapons second time, would this unbalance him?

Oh and if you like it, any chance of getting this in to the game...?
(ok, just daydreaming, but it would be so nice to see "my own" Pretender...)

[ October 01, 2003, 04:42: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Kristoffer O]

He would be the most powerful mage-pretender in the game, at a relatively low cost.

[Aristoteles]

I don't like it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
I don't think that the devs need pretender ideas. Making a pretender like this takes 10 minutes....Everyone could make it, so it is not wise to add this one. Others will demand their own pretenders than.

[ October 01, 2003, 08:13: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

[MStavros]

Originally posted by Aristoteles:
I don't like it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
I don't think that the devs need pretender ideas. Making a pretender like this takes 10 minutes....Everyone could make it, so it is not wise to add this one. Others will demand their own pretenders than.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I totally agree. The idea, to allow players to have their own little pretenders is very bad. Forget it, but real fast.

[DominionsFan]

HEY! I want a pretender too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[PDF]

Originally posted by Mortifer:
Eh, I was just dreaming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Mortifer the Cruel [half-dragon/half-demon]! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

PS. I love these pretenders, especially the Ghost King/Vampire Queen.

PS2. The ***** Queen -> Isn't ***** a foul word? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
[You meant witch queen maybe?]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AFAIK "*****" is primarily a female dog, the foul sense came from applying it to a woman http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif !
The ***** Queen indeed looks like a dog.
But I'm French, so my English etymology may be faulty.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif !

[PDF]

Oh BTW,
Did I read well ? Nerfix proposed a *MOD*, a change to the vanilla game Pretender array ??
ROFLMAO ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Zerger]

I reckon, it is a very bad idea to allow the players to submit own pretenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[Rollo]

yes, but that is why modding is so great. you can customize and add your own stuff that you would really like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[E. Albright]

Originally posted by PDF:
AFAIK "*****" is primarily a female dog, the foul sense came from applying it to a woman http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif !
The ***** Queen indeed looks like a dog.
But I'm French, so my English etymology may be faulty.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif !<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are indeed correct, sir. The word's etymological orgin is indeed canine. Mais le problème, c'est que nous les yankees avons quasiment oublié ce fait. Comme d'hab. L'étymologie? On s'en fiche!

(Et malheureusement, pour une grande partie du monde, l'anglais, c'est l'anglais américain, avec son argot moche, son jargon idiot du jour, et sans aucune respect pour la tradition linguistique...)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

(And to make matters worse, we're thoroughly corrupting other dialects of English as well...)

[ October 01, 2003, 14:33: Message edited by: E. Albright ]

[Nerfix]

Ranskaa. Sangen kiinnostavaa.
(unlike the previous poster, i will also include a translation)
French. Very intresting.

And yes, "Je parle francais", but it's is almost or even more horrible than my Swedish...

[ October 01, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by PDF:
Oh BTW,
Did I read well ? Nerfix proposed a *MOD*, a change to the vanilla game Pretender array ??
ROFLMAO ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And Aristoteles and MStavros were opposed to such a mod? WTF? OMG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[PDF]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Ranskaa. Sangen kiinnostavaa.
(unlike the previous poster, i will also include a translation)
French. Very intresting.

And yes, "Je parle francais", but it's is almost or even more horrible than my Swedish...<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You call French "Ranskaa" ?? WTF ?... You even don't call yourself "Finns" but Suomi ...
Finns must come from another planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif !

[PDF]

Originally posted by E. Albright:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by PDF:
AFAIK "*****" is primarily a female dog, the foul sense came from applying it to a woman http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif !
The ***** Queen indeed looks like a dog.
But I'm French, so my English etymology may be faulty.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif !<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are indeed correct, sir. The word's etymological orgin is indeed canine. Mais le problème, c'est que nous les yankees avons quasiment oublié ce fait. Comme d'hab. L'étymologie? On s'en fiche!

(Et malheureusement, pour une grande partie du monde, l'anglais, c'est l'anglais américain, avec son argot moche, son jargon idiot du jour, et sans aucune respect pour la tradition linguistique...)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

(And to make matters worse, we're thoroughly corrupting other dialects of English as well...)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hey, you ain't a real Yankee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif !
You know what "etymology" means, speak French and even have a French keyboard boasting all those é è à ù ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by PDF:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Nerfix:
Ranskaa. Sangen kiinnostavaa.
(unlike the previous poster, i will also include a translation)
French. Very intresting.

And yes, "Je parle francais", but it's is almost or even more horrible than my Swedish...<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You call French "Ranskaa" ??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The language, yes. The country itself is called "Ranska".
"Suomi"=Finland, "Suomalainen"=Finn, "Suomalaiset"=Finns

[ October 01, 2003, 17:55: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by st.patrik:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by PDF:
Oh BTW,
Did I read well ? Nerfix proposed a *MOD*, a change to the vanilla game Pretender array ??
ROFLMAO ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And Aristoteles and MStavros were opposed to such a mod? WTF? OMG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ain't it funny?

And i still can't get why it is a bad idea for players to suggest new features/units/etc. for Dominions II?

Also, should i increase the overall cost or the cost of new magic picks for Ancient Lord? Or change something else?

[ October 01, 2003, 19:08: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Mortifer]

That Ancient Lord will be useful if you can add it yourself, if you want.
Player ideas can be good, that is true, but I dont think that a pretender will help to Illwinter in anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[E. Albright]

Originally posted by PDF:
Hey, you ain't a real Yankee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif !
You know what "etymology" means, speak French and even have a French keyboard boasting all those é è à ù ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif [/QB]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. I wish. A French keyboard? In my dreams. As it stands, I have to memorize obscure keystroke combos (like Alt-133) on my Yankee keyboard, if'ins I don't wanna to be constently calling up the system character map...

E. Albright

[PDF]

Originally posted by E. Albright:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by PDF:
Hey, you ain't a real Yankee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif !
You know what "etymology" means, speak French and even have a French keyboard boasting all those é è à ù ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. I wish. A French keyboard? In my dreams. As it stands, I have to memorize obscure keystroke combos (like Alt-133) on my Yankee keyboard, if'ins I don't wanna to be constently calling up the system character map...

E. Albright[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, in this case you really deserves my respects ! First time I ever see a yank not only perfectly writing French with all our "accents", but also typing with those Alt-combos no French ever succeeded in memorizing ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Kudos Sir ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[E. Albright]

Yes, well, thanks; it's nice to think I can write well in at least one language. Ye gods! I thought I'd been bad when I noticed that I'd used "indeed" in two sentences running in my first post in this thread, but man! You'd not know I'm an anglophone from looking at that Last post. "Wanna to be"?

Eh, I'm American, so I'll indulge in my cultural entitlement to blame this stellar witlessness on my blond hair...

(That, or my charming habit of revising what I'm writing halfway through, but only changing a portion of a given phrase...)

E. Albright

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
He would be the most powerful mage-pretender in the game, at a relatively low cost.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Increase the cost of magic picks or increase the overall cost?
Hmmm... I actualy did remember to put in the side note that i'm unsure about the cost...

And for mod-dudez: I'm not a total hypocrite, if IW doesn't put this in to the game, i'm not modding this. And why the hell is it bad idea for players to submit ideas???

[ October 01, 2003, 13:05: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Mortifer:
That Ancient Lord will be useful if you can add it yourself, if you want.
Player ideas can be good, that is true, but I dont think that a pretender will help to Illwinter in anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">he can add him as a non recruitable monster if he wants, as dom allows to create new units already. And then he will do a map to play with... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Zerger]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
I don't like maps that stuff the mapmakers choices down the players throat. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Make your own map than. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ October 02, 2003, 13:03: Message edited by: Zerger ]

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
[QB]I don't want to make maps with unplayable nations due my 1337 tweaks.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1337? bear in mind that you are talking with people which could be your grandfather http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I don't like maps that stuff the mapmakers choices down the players throat. Thats why i would like to see ability to make preset but not hard-coded pretenders in custom maps.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">each time somebody makes a map, then he adds features what he likes, and force you to play with. I dont quite understand you. Except for completely randomized maps, you are playing with what the mapmaker wanted you to play.

[Zerger]

Originally posted by Pocus I dont quite understand you. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that sometimes its hellish hard to understand, what Nerfix is trying to tell on these Boards...
Just check out the modding thread for example, but there are lot of examples about his 'unique' thoughts... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Pocus:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Nerfix:
[QB]I don't want to make maps with unplayable nations due my 1337 tweaks.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1337? bear in mind that you are talking with people which could be your grandfather http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

1337 is an insult to me. I insulted myself. I thougth that out of |-|4x0r community 1337 is an insult. That's the way i use it. As an insult.

I don't like maps that stuff the mapmakers choices down the players throat. Thats why i would like to see ability to make preset but not hard-coded pretenders in custom maps.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">each time somebody makes a map, then he adds features what he likes, and force you to play with. I dont quite understand you. Except for completely randomized maps, you are playing with what the mapmaker wanted you to play.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was talking about the nations....
*sigh*
Do you realy want to play a map with 8 or even more unplayable nations? Or then you are forced to play with some hard-coded preset Pretenders. I don't want to force players with the preset Pretenders i gave. That's the reason i want ability to make preset but not hard-coded pretenders.

And answer me, would increasing the cost of new magic picks to 40 help Ancient Lord at all?

[ October 02, 2003, 15:17: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[LordArioch]

I think the issue with the Ancient Lord at the moment is he comes with 2 nature/2 death. It would cost 40+ points to get this magic on an archmage and the Ancient Lord is only costing 75 total and has good physical strength and wonderful equipping possibilities as well as getting new paths for only 30. I'd say either less magic or more cost certainly... I think most physically decent pretenders with that much magic cost at least 100. I'm no expert though.

And IMO, out of |-|4x0r community 1337 is just pretty annoying. In fact it's annoying anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Plus you gotta talk so those old folks can understand...or else I'll start criticizing your English. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif And then you can start critcizing the fact I speak nothing except English.

[ October 02, 2003, 16:37: Message edited by: LordArioch ]

[Aristoteles]

Uh? I don't get this. If we will be able to mod, you can design your own pretender and add it to your mod, your idea is totally pointless, Nerfix.
I am sure that the devs won't add player sumbmitted BS like a lame pretender. At least I hope, that they won't, if they are wise enough... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ October 02, 2003, 16:48: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

[Nerfix]

Even if we are able to mod, i'm still not a total hyporcrite.

And what is so lame with my pretender?
And modded stuff needs to have some ******* balance too.

And for the balance, should i cranck up the total cost to 100 or 125 if the new magic pick cost is 40?

[ October 02, 2003, 17:02: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[DominionsFan]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
And what is so lame with my pretender?
And modded stuff needs to have some ******* balance too.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ROFL, I think he meant that it takes 5 mins to make a pretender. You really think that the devs will add it to the original game? It would be ridicolous.
You are a real weirdo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Nerfix]

Yes, i am aware that i am a total weirdo.
And yes, i think this migth even get added to the actual game, if they like the idea.
You guys whined about poor GFx and what do we get? First a depix filter and then the sprites are drawn twice the actual size.

[DominionsFan]

Dude, as I said it takes 5 mins to make a pretender like that with a lot better 'story', what idea are you babbling about? I guess you just want some attention.
LOL! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Nerfix]

Why don't you give it an attempt if it is so easy?
Or don't you "bother with lame **** like this"?

[Aristoteles]

Originally posted by DominionsFAN:
Dude, as I said it takes 5 mins to make a pretender like that with a lot better 'story', what idea are you babbling about? I guess you just want some attention.
LOL! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly. Idiot kids. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Well, not all kids are idiots, but some of them are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Like..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 02, 2003, 17:12: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

[LordArioch]

That's right...don't offer helpful suggestions, just insult other people's ideas. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I at least think a Ancient Lord pretender like the Ancient Presence from Dom 1 that's a vine creature would be pretty cool if they dont have one, but I'm not too sure how to balance things. Plus it would fit with pangea's theme.

[Aristoteles]

Originally posted by LordArioch:
That's right...don't offer helpful suggestions, just insult other people's ideas. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure. A lame pretender is a good suggestion..and I am the king of the world! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Vodalian]

Aristoteles, quit it.
You won't get your point across though ad hominem attacks, and might very well invoke a flame war in the process. If you want to donate something to the discussion, do it through constructive criticism.
And by the way, if you want to convince others to think of Nerfix as an idiot kid, the first thing I would suggest you to do is to stop acting like one yourself.

[licker]

I'll try to salvage this thread (somewhat...)

How does the AI create pretenders for its nations? Are there preset pretenders for the nations or does the AI actually 'make' a new pretender for every SP game?

Can you force the AI to use certain pretenders on a random map (non senerio)?

Answers about Dom1 are fine, but I'm more curious to hear from a Dev or beta tester about Dom2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Kristoffer O]

AI pretenders are randomized. Impossible AI:s get more design points and are thus more powerful.

There is no way to have preset pretenders in random maps.

Hello Kids! It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to make a pretender. A nice sprite, some stats, starting dominion, magic and a cost. Apart from the graphics it's just some numbers at different places in the code. Nerfix pretender is as god as any mod. Most combatworthy pretenders with 2-1 in magic skills have a cost of 100 or so. This one is less powerful, but more magically so (low initial cost and two levels in to skills). I'd say he would cost 150 or something like that, but I'm not sober at the moment so I'm not sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif (stay away from alcohol kids - it makes you spell like a rake - swedish proverb).

Nerfix, do not be afraid to suggest more pretenders for your mod. We will give you advice on balancing issues as we think that balanced mods will be better.

Excuse me my ramblings. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nerfix]

Kristoffer, i Private Mailed you the more balanced(i hope so) Ancient Lord, so could you check it?

And yet still, i am not making a mod. I don't consider myself worthy enough to tamper with Dominions II. And what point does a mod that adds a single new Pretender have?

Edit: Oh well, what do i have to lose?

Ancient Lord
New god for Pangaea(meant to be used with the Carrion Woods theme)
Costs 100 points
Looks like a giant two headed Minotaur Carrion Beast with another head of a dragon and with 4 arms.

Automaticaly summons several (1-4) Carrion Beast in a turn.

The ancient lord is a embodiement of forces that have slept since man came. Now it has woken up and seeks to crush those who have forgotten the nature and it's incredible forces. The Ancient Lord has incorporated many mighty and dead beings to his body of vines and moss. He is skilled user of nature and death magic and also a formidable fighter, even if he isn't physicaly strong as demigods.

Pretender god, Undead, Fear(-3), Inanimate and Poison Immunity

Magic:Nature 1, Death 1, other paths cost 40

HP:55
Prot:5
Str:16
Att:11
Def:10
Mr:19
Ap:16
Enc:0
Fat:0
Prec:12
Mrl:50
Ldr:
Normal:50
Undead:75
Magic:20
Size:Same as Carrion Lord(4 or 5, i think)

Weapons:
Sleep Vines
Sleep Vines
Claws
Bite

In a nutshell, increased cost of both additional magic picks and overall cost and reduced the skill in Nature and Death magic to 1 and possibly increased size.

[ October 02, 2003, 19:31: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Mortifer]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

do not be afraid to suggest more pretenders for your mod. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">mod! MOD! MOD! My favourite word! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Kristoffer O]

That seems about right.

I think you are a good student. I'll give you a B+. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now make sure that you are a good student in your other classes as well. I would like you to have a top grade at religion. If you don't like religion think again. I assume that you know who Anton la Vey is and that you like Black Metal. I might be wrong, but it doesn't matter. Religion is the most powerful force in social constructions. There is no point in disliking it. You just have to love it. If my profiling is correct, let go of your dislike of the world religions and think about what they are and why, ancient religions as well as contemporary ones (do not make a difference - Jesus or Marduk - someone saves the day).

Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to preach. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[Zerger]

So huh, what the heck is the point to post our "pretender ideas" here?
Perhaps Nerfix should use his own message board to flood it with this useless junk?

If someone will make a modding site, well the ideas should be posted there....

[ October 02, 2003, 19:54: Message edited by: Zerger ]

[Nerfix]

@Kristoffer:
Almost rigth.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I don't know who Anton la Vey is, and i don't especialy like Black Metal...

@Zerger:
I already have my own message Boards thank you, and what do you have against me sharing my Pretender ideas?

[ October 02, 2003, 20:27: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[LordArioch]

Zerger, it's fine if you disagree with other people...but before you speak of flooding message Boards with useless junk you might note that 3 of your Last 5 Posts have been in this thread complaining about Nerfix. If you don't like him just ignore him.

I personally think an Ancient Presence type pretender for Pangea to match with their carrion theme would be a decent enough addition to the game. I'd think 150 would be a good cost for yours because his initial physical weakness compared to some other pretenders could be made up for by loading up with items.

On a totally different note: do duplicate items have more effect in dom 2 or is it like dom 1? Could this pretender use 4 summer swords and feed a whole army for example?

[MStavros]

Arioch, I agree with Zerger. Nerfix shouldn't use these Boards to spam his useless ideas.
Fan sites are for those.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by LordArioch:
On a totally different note: do duplicate items have more effect in dom 2 or is it like dom 1? Could this pretender use 4 summer swords and feed a whole army for example?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It works the same way as before.

[LordArioch]

Well then it's a good thing Nerfix is not spamming his useless ideas here, but rather suggesting a decent pretender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
It seems posting ideas for additions is much more logical here than on a fan site. Please tell me what's so horrible about one pretender idea being mentioned in one thread. If I have an idea can I propose it? And if so should I then deny that it could ever posess any validity? Do I make any sense? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
So mods are acceptable but suggesting that the actual developers make changes is some sort of heresy? I just don't understand.

[st.patrik]

The fact is, you (Zerger, MStavros, Aristoteles) just got mad at Nerflix because he disagreed vehemently with your desire to mod, and now you've decided to be antagonistic toward him.

PLEASE STOP! It's not helping the Boards out any - it's not constructive, and it's kinda immature.

You may think what you like, but please keep it to yourselves.

[ October 02, 2003, 23:18: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

[Aristoteles]

decent pretender? LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
You must be kiddin'.
Everyone can make one, it takes like 60 IQ.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
Nerfix had posted too much foolish things already. Making a pretender, posting it here, and asking the devs to implent it to the original game, is just another foolish, idiotic thing.

Constructive ideas can help, but this is NOT an idea, and this is NOT constructive at all.

If you ask me, he just wanted to see his own little pretender in the vanilla game, so he could brag about it later on.
It is incredible, that some of you cannot see it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ October 02, 2003, 22:41: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

[Nerfix]

I don't want to make maps with unplayable nations due my 1337 tweaks. And no, it doesn't have to be unplayable, but you are stuck with that pretender. What if someone wants to play non-CW Pangaea with Lord of the Wild? I don't like maps that stuff the mapmakers choices down the players throat. Thats why i would like to see ability to make preset but not hard-coded pretenders in custom maps.

And i posted something constructive in the modding thread, so please, would increasing the cost of new magic picks to 40 balance Ancient Lord at all?

[Psitticine]

I do think this is getting way too personal. Suggestions and brainstorming are healthy things for any project as, even if the ideas in question never make it into the game, they do (normally) provoke enough entertaining discussion to get new folks interested and quite possibly consider taking a look at the demo.

In this case, people seem to getting awfully heated. If anybody is angry at Nerfix for posting his Pretender God idea, then they should stop and consider the fact he asked if anybody was interested and I said yes. Is it rude, then, to ask first and post when encouraged? He has made his feelings on modding perhaps a bit too clear, but he has also attempted to mend some fences there, and it takes maturity to try and put arguments behind one. It is time to live and let live.

We are all fans of the game here. Something to stop and consider before posting is that we also act as representatives of the Dominions community to the new folks now joining it. Many people here on the Shrapnel Boards are discovering Dominions for the first time, having never even heard of it before this new section appeared.

Whether we are looking to do so or not, our Posts here are forming their first impressions of the Dom community. If they like the feel of the game as reflected here, they might just give the demo a try. Even the best games will fade without new blood, and smaller companies like Illwinter and Shrapnel depend more on word-of-mouth than anything else to promote their games. Like it or not, those words are coming out of our mouths, and while nobody exactly has a responsibility towards the game, isn't it worth refraining from acrimony in order help make sure Dominions has a long and healthy future?

Just something to think about . . .

[LordArioch]

Personally I wouldnt consider Dominions 2 as "the vanilla game". It implies that somehow mods are more flavorful whereas in reality I highly doubt Dominions 2 will see a mod sufficiently interesting to be superior to the standard game. Not because I think all mods are bad, but I've seen about one mod for a good game that was better than the standard game. Mods are mainly decent for occasional variety. And with Dominions 2 adding variety isn't too much an issue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif nor is fixing balance issues I'd imagine.

I like to think of Dominions 2 more as the supreme game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Not that I don't plan on downloading any LOTR mods...