Questions about the Niefelheim theme

[Nerfix]

1)How much does the theme cost?
2)Does it require any destructive scales?
3)Do they realy have Illwinter as a starting spell?
4)What kind of mages they have?

[ October 03, 2003, 15:17: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
1)How much does the theme cost?
2)Does it require any destructive scales?
3)Do they realy have Illwinter as a starting spell?
4)What kind of mages they have?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good things come to those who waits.

[Nerfix]

Ok, but do they realy have Illwinter as a starting spell?
If so, that is just so...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Aristoteles]

lol. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Nerfix]

If you didn't know, Illwinter is a global spell in Dominions that creates an eternal winter. Or more technicaly, it Lasts until someone dispels it, but it is nasty, very nasty.

[Aristoteles]

Yup I know that spell of course, I was laughing at johan's post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Well, casting Illwinter at turn 13 could be a damn big pain nevertheless...<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yes, but reread my post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif : everybody will try to kill you asap, will you have the guts to do this? Ok temperature will shift to cold 3, but 6+ temperate nations against you, and you with 13 turns of gems (or is it slaves?) wasted on the spell, do you think you'll resist?

[Nerfix]

It still can *BLEEP* up the game seriously.
Cutting income down for other nations(except cold lovers) by maxium 60%(i think) can have effects that Last much longer than the actual spell...
And chances are, other nations will have much less provinces and income on turn 13 than turn 33...
Sure they will hate you, it's an *BLEEP* trick to do...

[Daynarr]

It's 120 slaves and requires level 5 blood and level 3 water mage. Not easy to acquire and will suffer greatly in all other areas (magic, research, dominion) if you go for early casting. However, I still haven't tried to cast the damn thing so I can't tell how overpowering it is. I just don't want to test it in PBEM and wait and some big anti-Jotunheim-alliance to kill me (not so difficult even with lower income since many nations can gather powerful magic troops early (like Tien Chi).

[ October 04, 2003, 16:18: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

[Nerfix]

OK, does Son of Niefel(the pretender) still cost 50 points? And his new magic picks still cost the same 50 as in Dominions I?

[Daynarr]

Yes, still 50, 50. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nerfix]

If things haven't changed much from Dom I, it's not that hard to make a 6 Water/6 Blood Son of Niefel without penalising yourself too much.
Ok, i take 2 steps of Drain scale, but it just helps me to protect my precious undead critters.

However, does Niefelheim theme cost design points?

[ October 04, 2003, 17:50: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Daynarr]

It costs 50 points. You are right you can get 6 6 pretender without too much penalizing, but if you take drain you will have even worse research. Illwinter wont win game by itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 04, 2003, 18:07: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

[Nerfix]

But if you don't take the Drain scale, your undead units will be more vulnerable to banishment, and i believe JO said that Giants of Niefelheim are skilled in "Black Arts" I.E Death magic.

I could also take 2 Order(i take it anyway) and 2 Unluck and leave Magic/Drain to zero. I however prefer Drain 2 over Unluck 2.

[Rollo]

well, you have quite good spellcasters with Niefelheim IMO. Wouldn't drain weaken them and screw up your research?

[Nerfix]

If you have good spellcasters, they propably don't have to worry about Drain scale screwing their research. Besides, it is only -2 research points, Skull Mentor can be used to "cure" this.
I have played undead using nations with Drain scale, and it has never bothered me too much. And hey, there is a smaller chance for Manikin-attacks if you have Drain scale.

And it still protects your undead hordes and your precioussssss demons and devils.

[ October 04, 2003, 21:22: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Pocus]

i find the gamble quite interesting by the way:

- do you have the guts to paint a big 'target here' on you back upon casting the spell?

- will you dare invest all these magical resources into this spell, thus weakening you everywhere else?

[Nerfix]

Well, casting Illwinter at turn 13 could be a damn big pain nevertheless...

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Nerfix:
If you have good spellcasters, they propably don't have to worry about Drain scale screwing their research. Besides, it is only -2 research points, Skull Mentor can be used to "cure" this.
I have played undead using nations with Drain scale, and it has never bothered me too much. And hey, there is a smaller chance for Manikin-attacks if you have Drain scale.

And it still protects your undead hordes and your precioussssss demons and devils.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">check the numbers Nerfix, a magical Jotunheim can have a extremely fast research when based on Seithkona (magic scale +2 : 7 RP), whereas a drain based Jotunheim (drain -2) would have Seith at 3 RP only. Its quite a big fall. And Seithkona are your best mages, cost wise, to make research.
If I can spare my death gems for helping my research, then all the better. Using 100+ death gems to get 100 RP, instead of having say 50 ghosts... the choice is quickly made.

[Nerfix]

Still, it gives you at least partial protection from every 2 Priest skill Commander that happens to bump to your swarm of 200 Longdeads.
And it is my style to play, you can take magic scale if you want.

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Pocus:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Nerfix:
If you have good spellcasters, they propably don't have to worry about Drain scale screwing their research. Besides, it is only -2 research points, Skull Mentor can be used to "cure" this.
I have played undead using nations with Drain scale, and it has never bothered me too much. And hey, there is a smaller chance for Manikin-attacks if you have Drain scale.

And it still protects your undead hordes and your precioussssss demons and devils.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">check the numbers Nerfix, a magical Jotunheim can have a extremely fast research when based on Seithkona (magic scale +2 : 7 RP), whereas a drain based Jotunheim (drain -2) would have Seith at 3 RP only. Its quite a big fall. And Seithkona are your best mages, cost wise, to make research.
If I can spare my death gems for helping my research, then all the better. Using 100+ death gems to get 100 RP, instead of having say 50 ghosts... the choice is quickly made.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry to bring this old topic back, but there is one thing I forgot to mention. When playing Niefelheim theme your magic Users are different. You basically have only two of them and both of them cost 250 gold. So you will be hard pressed to distribute them between blood hunt, research, forging items, casting ritual spells and assisting armies. Drain scale will make all this even harder.

[Nerfix]

But Drain scale still protects you from banishment.

Do you know what mr longdead horsemen have with 2 Magic scale?
9!
They are mincemeat for any priest that wanders by.

And not all undead are cannonfodder.

[Kristoffer O]

Banishment is less powerful