About the most minor tweak you could imagine [Archive]

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 05:51 AM

It has always bugged me that spells like 'Rain' and 'Storm' don't require any water gems to cast! I mean - what happens when it rains/when there's a storm is that water comes out of the sky. Shouldn't it be 2 Air 1 Water for Rain, and 3 Air 2 Water for Storm, or something like that?

BTW I know this is a very very minor issue - I just had to get it off my chest.

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 02:46 PM

And another thing� (this is fast becoming 'Patrik's extremely minor comments thread')

I think unicorns should have a horn attack.

I mean, if *I* was a unicorn, I'd gore people with my horn. I'd be ok if this was instead of the hoof attack - maybe for a greater damage than the hoof attack.

Psitticine

October 16th, 2003, 02:50 PM

I'd have to check on the solo unicorns, but I know most of the unicorn riders (those who aren't using spears and other long weapon instead) have an Alicorn attack. The Alicorn, for those who are curious, is the unicorn's horn.

It's a pretty decent attack too. Skewers 'em right well, it does, it does. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Nerfix

October 16th, 2003, 02:51 PM

Do we have a Flagellant commander?
If not, we should have.

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Psitticine:
...most of the unicorn riders (those who aren't using spears and other long weapon instead) have an Alicorn attack.Why do unicorn riders with long weapons not get an Alicorn attack? In Dom I a knight with a lance also gets his broadsword attack and a hoof attack. Has this changed, or is there something I don't know about the way Dom I worked?

and by the way, thanks for the reply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 16, 2003, 14:02: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Nagot Gick Fel

October 16th, 2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Nerfix:
Do we have a Flagellant commander?
If not, we should have.While we're at it - flagellants spend most of their time whipping themselves with spiked flails, they should get random afflictions from that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nerfix:
Do we have a Flagellant commander?
If not, we should have.While we're at it - flagellants spend most of their time whipping themselves with spiked flails, they should get random afflictions from that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>I think a 'never-healing wound' would be most appropriate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

but seriously, the things I mentioned are things I'm honestly curious about, even if they're very small issues - I mean, a unicorn isn't just a fast horse, and rain isn't made up of very dense droplets of air.

Does anyone else have little niggling details that never sat right with them about things in Dom I? If so, post hardly important details here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nagot Gick Fel

October 16th, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by st.patrik:
rain isn't made up of very dense droplets of air. In Doms I you need water gems to cast it.

Does anyone else have little niggling details that never sat right with them about things in Dom I? If so, post hardly important details here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Scouts/spies/etc. with the Undead General or Valor heroic ability should be allowed to lead troops. Same when equipped with +leadership items.

Awe and Fear should be mutually exclusive, judging from their descriptions: "This being is truly magnificent and noone would dare to strike at this beauty..." and "The creature is so horrific to behold..." just seem a really really weird mix... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You sometimes see strange "free castle" events under the sea (local lord building a dry-ground fortress to protect his lands against revolting peasants).

Ermor censors sometimes popup in underwater castles... and drown instantly.

johan osterman

October 16th, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

Awe and Fear should be mutually exclusive, judging from their descriptions: "This being is truly magnificent and noone would dare to strike at this beauty..." and "The creature is so horrific to behold..." just seem a really really weird mix... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I do not think they should be exclusive, although perhaps the description of awe should exclude the beauty reference or at least change it to splendour or magnificence or something. I think it is appropriate with both feelings of awe and dread when you find yourself in the presence of the divine.

Ermor censors sometimes popup in underwater castles... and drown instantly.Heh.

[ October 16, 2003, 16:02: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Kristoffer O

October 16th, 2003, 04:39 PM

I believe flagellants do come with afflictions. At least souless does. They might even be headless.

Alicorn is used as well as broadsword. The unicorn uses his horn instead of a hoof. Alicorns are more powerful than hoofs.

Knights have never used lances at the same time as their swords. The first round of combat the lance is used instead of the sword.

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 04:58 PM

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Alicorn is used as well as broadsword. The unicorn uses his horn instead of a hoof. Alicorns are more powerful than hoofs.

Knights have never used lances at the same time as their swords. The first round of combat the lance is used instead of the sword.Ah - the things you learn. So lances are just for the first 'charge' - this makes perfect sense, but I didn't know it was this way. Thanks for the info.

re. Awe/Fear: I always thought of Awe and Fear as two ends of the spectrum, the zero point being your average guy who has neither. In this case Awe would spring from not wanting to cut down such a magnificent creature, whereas Fear would be the opposite - wanting to, but being afraid to. To me it would even make sense to have them check different stats - something like Fear checking morale and Awe checking magic resistance (lest you be charmed by the great magnificence and beauty of the awesome creature). This way Awe wouldn't just be Fear under another name.

[what would be funny would be to have a fear-inducing creature facing off against an awe-inducing creature, and have them fail their respective checks and both run away http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ]

[ October 16, 2003, 16:09: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Endoperez

October 16th, 2003, 05:15 PM

What is the first round knights use their lances in? The first attack in a battle? All the attacks in the first round (if quickened somehow)? Does the distance the knight moved affect the damage given by lance?
Is there a way to make a new unit having an attack like this? If yes, is there any kind of a requirement for a weapon this would be done with? That is, does this kind of attack only apply the lance, or can you define that a normal spear would be used in the first round?

Saber Cherry

October 16th, 2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Scouts/spies/etc. with the Undead General or Valor heroic ability should be allowed to lead troops. Same when equipped with +leadership items.Yeah, there's nothing more annoying than getting a heroic scout, and ending up with Valor. So that the "0" units he commands turns a brighter shade, but stays zero:) The solution would be to have Valor add +10 (or so) troops minimum, before the variable % increase.

Although getting a combat mage with Strength is annoying, too:) Sometimes I've had mages with a strength of 30, but I still wasn't tempted to risk them in melee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I kind of think that commanders should be tagged - priest-type, mage-type, melee-type, stealth-type, and archer-type. Then, each type could have a set of valid heroisms... a mage would never gain strength or combat skill, and a standard melee commander would never gain "Power Cast" (a hero skill I just made up, that gives a damage multiplier to raw damage spells) or "The Gift" (another skill I made up, that reduces spell fatigue by a variable percent, starting at 25%).

And no... this is NOT the most minor tweak you can imagine. I hate when half my heros get useless abilities. BTW, stealth heroes could also gain "Chameleon" (decreases chances of being spotted) or "Squirreltongue" (able to scout all adjacent provinces, by talking to squirrels).

-Cherry

P.S. You know, a unicorn horn should be considered magical and armor-piercing, from what I've read about unicorns. And if you disagree, I suggest you read The Last Unicorn again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 16, 2003, 16:22: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

st.patrik

October 16th, 2003, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Although getting a combat mage with Strength is annoying, too:) Sometimes I've had mages with a strength of 30, but I still wasn't tempted to risk them in melee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I kind of think that commanders should be tagged - priest-type, mage-type, melee-type, stealth-type, and archer-type. Then, each type could have a set of valid heroisms... a mage would never gain strength or combat skill, and a standard melee commander would never gain "Power Cast" (a hero skill I just made up, that gives a damage multiplier to raw damage spells) or "The Gift" (another skill I made up, that reduces spell fatigue by a variable percent, starting at 25%).

And no... this is NOT the most minor tweak you can imagine. I hate when half my heros get useless abilities. BTW, stealth heroes could also gain "Chameleon" (decreases chances of being spotted) or "Squirreltongue" (able to scout all adjacent provinces, by talking to squirrels).

-Cherry

P.S. You know, a unicorn horn should be considered magical and armor-piercing, from what I've read about unicorns. And if you disagree, I suggest you read The Last Unicorn again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I totally agree about heroic abilities. It makes very little sense for a mage to have incredible strength, or a knight to have incredible precision. This would be a nice change, and I agree, not so minor of an issue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Kristoffer O

October 16th, 2003, 05:38 PM

Rare Knights have incredible vision. They often go by the name Hawkeye.

Mages are generally stronger than ordinary humans. We have nerfed the mages to make the game less realistic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

MStavros

October 16th, 2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Rare Knights have incredible vision. They often go by the name Hawkeye.

Mages are generally stronger than ordinary humans. We have nerfed the mages to make the game less realistic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Hawkeye. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Last of the Mohikans eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

johan osterman

October 16th, 2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by st.patrik:
I totally agree about heroic abilities. It makes very little sense for a mage to have incredible strength, or a knight to have incredible precision. This would be a nice change, and I agree, not so minor of an issue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif There are plenty of stories of magicians etc with heroic strength, once again the heroic abilities are intended to add flavour to commanders not neccesarily maximise their combat abilities. If you get a superstrong mage just imagine he has magically augumented his physical powers, been in a freak magical accident or whatever you wish. Give the knight a precision bow. Place the scout with valor as a standard in the front ranks with the troops etc. I think it is good that the abilities do not allways serve to make your commanders as powerful as possible, the unpredictabilty encourages people to change the focus of heroes and thus adds to the flavour of the game. Now you can have archer knights and never tiring infantry commanders, mages who have partaken of the strength and fury of the winter wind and assasins so famed and feared that they inspire nearby troops to stand firm in battle.
This is a good thing.

[ October 16, 2003, 16:49: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Saber Cherry

October 16th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by johan osterman:
There are plenty of stories of magicians etc with heroic strength, once again the heroic abilities are intended to add flavour to commanders not neccesarily maximise their combat abilities. If you get a superstrong mage just imagine he has magically augumented his physical powers, been in a freak magical accident or whatever you wish. Give the knight a precision bow. Place the scout with valor as a standard in the front ranks with the troops etc. I think it is good that the abilities do not allways serve to make your commanders as powerful as possible, the unpredictabilty encourages people to change the focus of heroes and thus adds to the flavour of the game. Now you can have archer knights and never tiring infantry commanders, mages who have partaken of the strength and fury of the winter wind and assasins so famed and feared that they inspire nearby troops to stand firm in battle.
This is a good thing.I don't agree, but that's OK. What's more important is that you're deliberately ignoring the heart of the issue: scouting heroes gaining the "Squirreltongue" ability. I think that would be unbelievably cute, and make DomII more marketable in the 7-12 year old girl bracket. There could also be a FMV of the scout talking with woodlands creatures, gathered around in a semicircle like a scene from Bambi.

-Cherry

-Storm-

October 16th, 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by johan osterman:
There are plenty of stories of magicians etc with heroic strength, once again the heroic abilities are intended to add flavour to commanders not neccesarily maximise their combat abilities. If you get a superstrong mage just imagine he has magically augumented his physical powers, been in a freak magical accident or whatever you wish. Give the knight a precision bow. Place the scout with valor as a standard in the front ranks with the troops etc. I think it is good that the abilities do not allways serve to make your commanders as powerful as possible, the unpredictabilty encourages people to change the focus of heroes and thus adds to the flavour of the game. Now you can have archer knights and never tiring infantry commanders, mages who have partaken of the strength and fury of the winter wind and assasins so famed and feared that they inspire nearby troops to stand firm in battle.
This is a good thing.I don't agree, but that's OK. What's more important is that you're deliberately ignoring the heart of the issue: scouting heroes gaining the "Squirreltongue" ability. I think that would be unbelievably cute, and make DomII more marketable in the 7-12 year old girl bracket. There could also be a FMV of the scout talking with woodlands creatures, gathered around in a semicircle like a scene from Bambi.

-Cherry<hr /></blockquote>Saber may I ask, that why are you trying to be funny all the time?
This is not www.iamfunny.com (http://www.iamfunny.com) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Potatoman

October 16th, 2003, 07:16 PM

Don't get me started on the unicorns again...

P.S. You know, a unicorn horn should be considered magical and armor-piercing, from what I've read about unicorns. And if you disagree, I suggest you read The Last Unicorn again

Saber Cherry

October 16th, 2003, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by -Storm-:
Saber may I ask, that why are you trying to be funny all the time?
This is not www.iamfunny.com (http://www.iamfunny.com) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif -Storm-, may I ask why you registered a day after some person who went by "Maelstorm" got kicked off by popular demand, because he was being a complete ***? This is not www.insult-people-then-change-your-nickname.com (http://www.insult-people-then-change-your-nickname.com).

Or even www.give-yourself-5-stars-with-your-old-ID.com (http://www.give-yourself-5-stars-with-your-old-ID.com).

-Cherry

Pocus

October 16th, 2003, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Now you can have archer knights and never tiring infantry commanders, mages who have partaken of the strength and fury of the winter wind and assasins so famed and feared that they inspire nearby troops to stand firm in battle.
This is a good thing.Had such scout in a game, I renamed it (with the powerful Renaminator engine we had in Doms I , may he RIP...) Garret the Guild master, and I dropped him amidst my pack of soldiers. I was happy with that, and I felt sad when he got squashed by a troll in a battle.

Psitticine

October 16th, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by st.patrik:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Psitticine:
...most of the unicorn riders (those who aren't using spears and other long weapon instead) have an Alicorn attack.Why do unicorn riders with long weapons not get an Alicorn attack? In Dom I a knight with a lance also gets his broadsword attack and a hoof attack. Has this changed, or is there something I don't know about the way Dom I worked?

and by the way, thanks for the reply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>As far as I can remember, most of the Unicorn riders have the Alicorn attack. There are just a few, who are using super-long weaponry and thus (I'd assume) are trying to stay farther away from the enemy than would permit a stab from their mount's horn. It may even have been changed, actually, to have them Alicorn-equipped by now; what I'm remembering is from an earlier beta and I haven't encountered the random national heroes I'm thinking about again since then.