Which indy units do you like to build?

[Saber Cherry]

Check all the ones you think are worth the price in gold and resources! Assume both are somewhat limited.

[Nerfix]

Hoburg Crossbows, Longbows, Garnet Amazons and Barbarians.

You forgot the woodsmen! I also build them.

[Saber Cherry]

I put in woodsmen! Look again=)

[Saber Cherry]

Hey, some people aren't voting! You commies! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Remember, the results of this poll COULD help the future of the Dominions strategic AI!

What if you almost never get the ones you like to build so the point is moot. You just build the best you have availiable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Kaljamaha]

Hmm...there's an oddity in the poll. Initially I chose no infantry, and it wouldn't accept my response until I selected at least one infantry unit. So an option of "none" would be appreciated.


K.

[Gandalf Parker]

Of course it varies alot depending on what nation I have. Some nations need as much archery support as it can get. Others need front-line troops more. Some need quality, some need quantity. But I did vote for my Favorites.

[HJ]

I guess you didn't include cavalry and sacred amazon troops because they are an obvious choice? These are the only indie troops I consider building usually. And amphibious ones, of course.

[ November 22, 2003, 20:29: Message edited by: HJ ]

[Saber Cherry]

Sorry, I didn't realize it wouldn't let you choose zero. As for cavalry / sacreds - I didn't want to go through EVERY indy unit, just the infantry and archers at first. You can't change a poll once it is posted.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by HJ:
I guess you didn't include cavalry and sacred amazon troops because they are an obvious choice? These are the only indie troops I consider building usually. And amphibious ones, of course. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Really? The only ones I build in that Category are the pegasus. (and amphibs)

[PvK]

I wanted to vote for more than 7 or 8 in both archer and melee categories (e.g., I would use any armor type of the shortbow and crossbow types, and others), and a couple I hadn't really evaluated yet.

Why did you limit the number of selections to fewer than the number of choices?

PvK

[PvK]

Heh. I'm the only one who has voted for Tribal Warrior! You guys are missing out on some super bargain-basement cannon fodder! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

[HJ]

I just love nightmares, and I usually build a fort in a feudal kingdom if I don't have a good cavalry myself. Feudal provinces are usually rich so it's good for the economy as well, and I'm a big cavalry warfare fan. I also build a fort in amazon provinces failry often, since I want to have an access to their sorceresses secured, so I might as well recruit a few of their sacred troops if I can afford them along the way. I tend to find all other indie troops fairly unattractive, as I like to adjust to the style of the nation I chose for the most part.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by PvK:
Why did you limit the number of selections to fewer than the number of choices?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just to irritate you=)

The real reason is this: I wanted the poll to reveal the BEST standard indy units, not every single unit people might build under any circumstance. I have never been in a situation where my resources or gold allowed me to build every single type of unit that was available, so I kind of wanted the poll to show which ones they would choose if they had to make a choice, not which ones they consider useful at all.

So, I like all 3 crossbow types. But GENERALLY, I choose the medium crossbows, even when all three are available... and even if I try to make heavy crossbows, they tend to be irrelevant because I have too few of them to even bother sending a commander to pick them up. Whereas if I had allowed unlimited choices, I would have marked all three, which would have yielded less information, IMO.

[Keir Maxwell]

Just to prove that even commies vote I answered your poll Saber. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I voted for the lightest form of shortbow as the only archer I'm likely to build (Hoburgs and Longbow are good enough to kill my own troops while Shortbow are so hopeless they only kill crappy indie troops and the few lighter armed targets you really need to take down - like Serpent Dancers.

I voted for one of the close fighters because you made me. The computerised voting system is rigged - we must be in America! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The 15 prot HI got my tick and I have build them on desperate occasions but the truth is I don't really like building indie's. My advice to many of those who took the poll is to build less inde's - I never realised they are so popular.

cheers

Keir

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I voted for one of the close fighters because you made me. The computerised voting system is rigged - we must be in America! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, next poll (cavalry, leaders, and special units) will have a "none of the above" option=)

There are a few units that I think would be extremely useful... if only! Those are Villians, Woodsmen, Hoburg Militia, Burgmeister Guards, and land-based Shamblers. I never build any of them, except the Woodsmen (because of their 11 precision). What would make them useful:

Villians, Hoburg Militia, and Woodsmen: These are stealth units with no stealth commanders! I would love these things if the provinces included stealth commanders, costing less than ~3gp per unit (as opposed to the Druid, which costs 90 and leads 10, for 9gp per unit... and requires a temple and lab... crazy!). What's wrong with a 30 gold, 10 leadership (or 40 gold, 25 leadership) Chief Villian, Hoburg Militia Captain, or Woodsman Huntmaster?

Shamblers: The ones on land are amphibious, with no amphibious commanders! That makes NO sense. Sure, you might be able to find a water mage, but where there are Shamblers, there should be shambler commanders.

Burgmeister Guards: These are like heavy infantry, just not as good. Now if their resource cost scaled down a bit, and they consumed less supply than humans, I'd build them. Weel, if I could ever find them in a resource-rich province... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

-Cherry

The only unit I build pretty much every game that is indy is ...


A scout http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by PvK:
Heh. I'm the only one who has voted for Tribal Warrior! You guys are missing out on some super bargain-basement cannon fodder!<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You know the problem with those guys? Low morale. They are cheap, low resource, and have high protection (6) for cheap, low-resource units. And they dual-wield! Sweet! Until you consider how Dominions combat works. Well, nobody knows how a morale check works, but still... they use daggers! So they get 2 morale checks, and possibly 2 damage with 2 more morale checks, every single time they attack - since virtually every unit has a longer weapon. Tribal Warriors against a Spine Devil or Atlantian spiny infantry (both hurt and poison short-weapon units) would not be pretty.

That's why militia carry spears... militia are worthless, but at least with a long weapon they can fight worthlessly rather fleeing worthlessly=)

If anyone combat-sims Tribal Warriors versus Light Infantry or Militia, I'd be interested in seeing the results. Right now, I would bet on the cheapest light militia (prot-3).

[Saber Cherry]

Hmm. I admit this poll is imperfect, but I think I'll bump it anyway, until I get a few more votes - there should be at least 40 floating around, which will give more precise 2.5% increments.

[PvK]

I don't buy Tribal militia to win battles with them - I buy them to soak up damage, instead of my good troops!

I don't even mind if they run away fairly quickly. In a huge horde of them, or in several small holds, they stay around plenty long in most cases - long enough to absorb lots of damage, which is my reason for taking them.

In fact, I like that they die quickly - it means it's easy to get rid of them when their usefulness has passed, which is usually only a few turns after I hire them.

What's great is that you can hire hordes of them in a single turn, and they can take blows that would wipe out your good troops otherwise, particularly when one is faced with something that can kill your usual best troops, like castle defenses, poison gas clouds, supercombattants, etc.

They are lame but they soak up lots and lots of firepower if you get them in bulk.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

PvK

P.S. And as you mentioned, the dual daggers are actually not lame offensively against some foes. If the enemy can't kill 'em fast enough, the tribals can often do a good amount of damage.

[ November 25, 2003, 05:51: Message edited by: PvK ]

[PvK]

I see your point about adding leaders to go with the likes of Villains and Shamblers. However I think it is interesting getting them without them, and I also think it makes some sense. Hiring brigands is one thing, but convincing them to go on a covert mission is another. Similarly, the shamblers on land may have a good reason for not going back underwater, without a convincing leader. It is interesting and challenging to at least sometimes not have all the pieces necessary all in one place. It's usually not difficult to get an underwater commander. It's a bit trickier to get a stealthy commander for some nations. There are some independent provinces with amphibious commanders, though.

In sum, I think it'd be nice if sometimes there were independent land-based-shambler/villain leaders were available, but I think there should still be some provinces that don't have them, because there are other ways to get them.

Getting frustrated and challenged is a big part of the fun of this game.

PvK

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
...
There are a few units that I think would be extremely useful... if only! Those are Villians, Woodsmen, Hoburg Militia, Burgmeister Guards, and land-based Shamblers. I never build any of them, except the Woodsmen (because of their 11 precision). What would make them useful:

Villians, Hoburg Militia, and Woodsmen: These are stealth units with no stealth commanders! I would love these things if the provinces included stealth commanders, costing less than ~3gp per unit (as opposed to the Druid, which costs 90 and leads 10, for 9gp per unit... and requires a temple and lab... crazy!). What's wrong with a 30 gold, 10 leadership (or 40 gold, 25 leadership) Chief Villian, Hoburg Militia Captain, or Woodsman Huntmaster?

Shamblers: The ones on land are amphibious, with no amphibious commanders! That makes NO sense. Sure, you might be able to find a water mage, but where there are Shamblers, there should be shambler commanders.

...
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