Hall of fame bonuses?

[Jader]

What exactly bonuses gets herows for beeing in hall of fame? How can I see this?

A commander in the Hall of Shame will have a Red Circle with a Gold Star on the left side when you select Province view or Nation View. (Grey Circle with a Yellow Star is a Level of Experience).

If you select and view the commander (with right-click) you should be able to view his stats and special abilities, including his Hall of Shame ability. (Just right-click on the red circle gold star symbol)

Every commander in the Hall of Fame gets a randomly selected special ability that increases as they sit in the HoF over time.

[SurvivalistMerc]

Zen is absolutely right.

What I will add is that this ability is truly random and does not relate to the sort of commander he/she is or to how the commander acquired the experience.

For instance, I will often get "heroic battle prowess," which gives increased attack skill, on my magi. (Hand to hand combat where attack skill is useful isn't something my magi usually do.) Usually the ability is something you are able to at least marginally make use of, however. But not all of the abilities are created equal. I remember a time in the demo that an AI prophet who was a level 5 priest got quickness...he was smiting twice a turn!

[Kristoffer O]

Some of the abilities are rare. Quickness is and so is awe.

[Bossemanden]

Another good one is when the fear effect gets to +15-20 or so. Give the guy some really good armour and flying boots (name?)+the horror helmet (name?). Indies will run away fast. Of course you should not try this against undead.

[Shael]

i think thease shoud be changet for total random to some sort of idea
its stupid that mages get attack as they might not even CARRY weapons or even SEE hand to hand combat
or some assasin get awe (or what the hell is that makes him standard) yea yea he get's bonuses to his leader ship score NOOT he is still an assasin and cant command troops... (at least not normally)
and anyway he sneaks in darkness and attacks in the back how can this figure be wort AWE ?

It feels like I'm trying to read what you post through a heavy techno club remix.

It would be nice to be able to get things that would make sense for units; but who can resist a mage with heroic strength?

He ate his wheaties.

[Saber Cherry]

I still like heroic tentacles, but they are not in Version 2.02 for some reason.

[HJ]

Have you ever had awe on assassin? It's pretty awesome, I would say.

[Argitoth]

I had my C'tis heroe (the rainbow armor guy with +15 standard) and he got the heroic ability for more standard. He ended up with about +43 standard with just 2 experience stars.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by HJ:
Have you ever had awe on assassin? It's pretty awesome, I would say. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've had quick assassins. 2 weapons and quickness go quite well together! Especially once they pass 100% and get 6 attacks in the first round. Or, with boots of quickness and 2 swords of quickness, 24 attacks in the first round=)

And then, I've gotten the valor assassins... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ December 11, 2003, 16:32: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Argitoth]

I've seen an AI's commander kill my Naga in the arena because it had Quickness as a heroic ability and the "Arena Weapon" which gave it more quickness. Just think what would happen if it casted Quickness the spell and wore quickness boots!

Quadruple Quickness. (It really does stack) I don't think it doubles an already doubled action. I think it just adds 1 action. (Instead of 2 actions becomming 4 actions, it becomes 3 actions)

[ December 11, 2003, 17:26: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Taqwus]

I once had a Jotun Herse with heroic Strength. *WHAM*
Possible bonuses include...
Valor (+MRL, Standard ability), Quickness (+AP), Heroic Battle Prowess (+ATT), bp's mirror image (+DEF), Toughness (+HP), Tough Skin (+PROT), Iron Will (+MR), Heroic Precision (+PREC), Heroic Endurance (+reinvig), Undead Leadership (+undead LDR), Heroic Strength (+STR), Awe (+awe), Battle Bellow (+(lesser?) fear).

[Argitoth]

huh?

[Teleolurian]

In the fantasy novel 'The Misenchanted Sword', a mage named Darrend got a military recognition for defending his circle with his ceremonial athame, once there was no other recourse. To wit: it's not 'useful', but it happens. (The book never mentions Darrend going into battle or anything like that after that point).

[Taqwus]

A mage with heroic strength or battle prowess might be helpful if he can cast the "remote fist" spells -- there's at least one fairly low-level punching-at-a-distance spell which does rely on STR for damage. Can't say I've used it much 'tho.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
I've seen an AI's commander kill my Naga in the arena because it had Quickness as a heroic ability and the "Arena Weapon" which gave it more quickness. Just think what would happen if it casted Quickness the spell and wore quickness boots!

Quadruple Quickness. (It really does stack) I don't think it doubles an already doubled action. I think it just adds 1 action. (Instead of 2 actions becomming 4 actions, it becomes 3 actions) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">FYI - quickness does not stack, as far as I can tell. There are only 2 quicknesses: Heroic and magic. Boots of quickness, the spell quickness, and the Champion's Trident all grant magic quickness and are not cumulative with each other. They are cumulative with heroic quickness, though... and heroic quickness is open-ended, so in a long game, I suppose it could get over 200%...

I'm not sure what kind of quickness you get from water-9 blessing. That may be cumulative too.

[Teraswaerto]

Niefel Jarls with toughness are nice, the hp increase is proportional I think.

[Teleolurian]

I shudder to imagine an Arch-Theurg with an incredibly high Heroic Quickness.

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
FYI - quickness does not stack, as far as I can tell. There are only 2 quicknesses: Heroic and magic. Boots of quickness, the spell quickness, and the Champion's Trident all grant magic quickness and are not cumulative with each other. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Doesn't the Trident just have more than one attack, or does it grant quickness too?

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Doesn't the Trident just have more than one attack, or does it grant quickness too? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Both. So Trident on a mage is very nice.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:


I'm not sure what kind of quickness you get from water-9 blessing. That may be cumulative too. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are two kinds of quickness in the coding. The spell and item effect of 100% and a variable one. Water-bless-Q and heroic Q are of the later kind and is cumulative IIRC. Thus: water-blessed hero97% + spell/item => 50+97+100=147%

[Saber Cherry]

So, to clarify all this...

If you have a water-9 pretender, wish for a nataraja, give it 4 swords of quickness, a horned helmet, boots of quickness, 2 stone birds, and a shroud of the battle saint... and it gets heroic quickness up to, say, 151%...

It should get a basic 8 sword attacks, 1 gore, and 8 bird attacks, for 17 attacks. The blessing combines with heroic quickness to give +201%, or quad actions in the first round (and triple subsequently). Magical quickness should double this, with an end result of:

(8+1+8)*4*2 = 136 attacks in the first round, and 102 attacks for the next 99 rounds. Not bad! Reinvigoration might be nice, though. On second thought, it might be best to reincarnate him as an undead so he doesn't have fatigue problems.

Edit: Oops, I think that was wrong - all quicknesses are added, not multiplied. Thus, the result is would be:

(8+1+8)*(4+1) = 85 attacks in the first round, and 68 attacks for the next 99 rounds. Not so special after all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 11, 2003, 20:05: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Taqwus]

Would it lose two of the four arms when it became a mummy? Hm.

[Argitoth]

Your right. Illwinter should stop being lazy and make an undead Version for the units who really need it.

[Endoperez]

Why Illwinter? We have the means, you know... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Oh, and we have the means because Illwinter has NOT been lazy! Think about that a little.

There are SOME undead pretenders already, but they would need a new description (the tartarians). In fact, for me it seems that in Dominions II more unit numbers will be used up for different descriptions with the same units than for most other single things, like units of any single race...
It's not that important, but thought I would point that out when I have nothing better to do.

[ December 12, 2003, 05:59: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

[Argitoth]

Well why can't they make a patch so that Rebirth works better? I hate my C'tis mages becomming stupid human-looking mummies. I also hate how when you use Amulate of Lycanthrope, my mage becomes a human wereworlf.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Well why can't they make a patch so that Rebirth works better? I hate my C'tis mages becomming stupid human-looking mummies. I also hate how when you use Amulate of Lycanthrope, my mage becomes a human wereworlf. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You want an undead Version of all 1010 units in the game?

[Taqwus]

That... would be a lot of additional units. Either that, or they'd need to rework mummification, e.g. cover the original non-transparent parts in some weird wrapping texture (argh, not easy, esp when you consider weapons etc) plus deltas to the stats/abilities.
And don't forget Gift of Reason. What would a mummified Vastness, Horror or Krakenlook like? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
You want an undead Version of all 1010 units in the game? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">YES!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ok, kidding, kidding...

[Teraswaerto]

It wouldn't need be 1010 units, since most of those are human-shaped. Still quite a few though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Argitoth]

No, only a few are required.

1 for each pretender
1 which looks like a C'tis unit
1 which looks like a human
1 which looks like an abysian unit
1 which looks like a lizard (which would include salamanders, drakes, bog beasts, etc.)

and a few others. I don't have each unit memorized. Others would include squid-like units or a troll-like unit. etc. Get it? It's not that hard at all.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
No, only a few are required.
and a few others. I don't have each unit memorized. Others would include squid-like units or a troll-like unit. etc. Get it? It's not that hard at all. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I didnt say it was hard. It just seemed like alot. We already have long lists of things that "arent hard" but there are only 2 devs, and this isnt even what they do all day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But I see the point. Some generic undead Versions of each. Just as there are already alot of generic plant-vine Versions.

But as I think about it Im not sure if the game is programmed to allow an image to be used for alot of different units with different stats. Looking at the AllView game there are many Versions of some units such as Red Dragon, and Knight. Space would have been saved by pointing to 1 image but having multiple stat files.

[Saber Cherry]

First, it IS a lot of work. Second, I don't see the advantage over using the same model, with an "undead" skull icon. How little you know about undead! They walk among us. You cannot always tell... not for the recently undead...

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Argitoth:
Well why can't they make a patch so that Rebirth works better? I hate my C'tis mages becomming stupid human-looking mummies. I also hate how when you use Amulate of Lycanthrope, my mage becomes a human wereworlf. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You want an undead Version of all 1010 units in the game? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only the ones that aren't already undead, lifeless , and maybe magical or demonic (can you mummify a dead demon lord if he gets into HoF?), and don't already have an appropriate undead Version (e.g. Lizard King -> Tomb King).

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Seriously, though, there are a lot of units that could use the generic humanoid mummies/soulless (don't forget the Death 9 blessing too). But there are also some that can't realistically do so - demonbreds, hydras, drakes, elemental kings/queens, angels, Natarajas, etc., etc., etc.

[Argitoth]

Well maybe when modding is availible, we will all be able to make undead Versions of everything we need.

[Joonie73]

This is a bit off on a tangent, but I had a Niefel Jarl hero ramp up to almost 200 in strength in a game, LOL. Suffice to say, he killed everything with a hit.

[ December 13, 2003, 17:36: Message edited by: Joonie73 ]

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Taqwus:
A mage with heroic strength or battle prowess might be helpful if he can cast the "remote fist" spells -- there's at least one fairly low-level punching-at-a-distance spell which does rely on STR for damage. Can't say I've used it much 'tho. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A spell called Farstrike also uses strength... few spellcasters will match what's needed for casting.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
So, to clarify all this...

If you have a water-9 pretender, wish for a nataraja, give it 4 swords of quickness, a horned helmet, boots of quickness, 2 stone birds, and a shroud of the battle saint... and it gets heroic quickness up to, say, 151%...

It should get a basic 8 sword attacks, 1 gore, and 8 bird attacks, for 17 attacks. The blessing combines with heroic quickness to give +201%, or quad actions in the first round (and triple subsequently). Magical quickness should double this, with an end result of:

(8+1+8)*4*2 = 136 attacks in the first round, and 102 attacks for the next 99 rounds. Not bad! Reinvigoration might be nice, though. On second thought, it might be best to reincarnate him as an undead so he doesn't have fatigue problems.

Edit: Oops, I think that was wrong - all quicknesses are added, not multiplied. Thus, the result is would be:

(8+1+8)*(4+1) = 85 attacks in the first round, and 68 attacks for the next 99 rounds. Not so special after all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK! What you alll wanted to know...

I tested it. Magic and Heroic quicknessess ARE multiplied, not added!

I had Emmitu the Ermorian Hero (a complete badass in his own right). He got Heroic Quickness, and I gave him Jade Armor, which grants magical quickness. Needless to say... on turn 1, he gave himself unholy power and ran across the field to annihilate half the enemy army in melee, and on turn 2, he annihilated the rest of the army in melee (these were small, indy 3 armies).

Heroic Quickness: +139%
Base action points: 30
Action Points unequipped: 71
Action Points with Jade Armor: 142

So, undead heroes can be very very nice=)

FYI, he is wearing a Sword of Quickness, Sickle Whose Crop is Pain, Amon Hotep, Champion's Skull, and Lucky Pendant. And I made him prophet. Final stats (before casting Unholy Power on himself, which makes him much faster):

HP 94
Prot 30
Mrl 30
Mrst 27
Enc 0
Str: 25
Att: 28
Def: 37
Pre: 17

Blessed, Poor Amphibian, Fear 10, Awe 4, Fire Resist 50, Cold Resist 100, Poison Resist 100, Undead, Immortal, Chill, Ethereal, Berserker 1, Air Shield 20, 4 exp. stars.

22 attacks per turn, average, including the horse's hoof=)

[Taqwus]

Saber Cherry --
Hm. That would have been even more grotesque with Water 9 on the Pretender, heh. But over 100 AP is plenty already, I think...

[Kjeld]

I had an Heroic Skratti with improved strength, he had somehting like 70 or 80ish strength iirc.
Wearing a soul contract, he just one shotted attracted horrors to death with his staff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[PvK]

I think the mis-matched heroic abilities are good. It is interesting, creates characters with unique combinations of abilities, and means that the hall of fame is not guaranteed to create someone super-good in their usual role. That's all good in my book.

Heroic attack skill on a spellcaster? That's interesting, and not useless. Some spells require the caster to touch the target, and casters do get into hand-to-hand combat (a high-risk cause of death). One of my more memorable and interesting characters is Henrik the priest who won the arena deathmatch championship, and now is a magic-trident-wielding melee machine who happens to be a priest.

PvK

[freykin]

You missed one of the heroic abilities, which I've only seen show up once so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I don't remember it's exact name, but it ramps up your research speed. Quetzalcoatl got it for me with Mictlan, and by the time he fell out of the hall of fame, his research speed was up to 37!

Needless to say, that's one of my favorite heroic abilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It's like Amazing Researcher or something. It's a great ability but seems to be very very rare, rarer than Quickness.