New Dom2 Quick Reference Sheet [Archive]

View Full Version : New Dom2 Quick Reference Sheet

Gothmog

January 15th, 2004, 06:41 PM

Well, I'm trying to get my little brothers into this game, and, as you all know, the documents and interface (of this AMAZING game, don't get me wrong now.) are kinda.... UNWIELDLY at times.

Therefore, I took some time to draft up a one sheet nation overview table. I slapped a key shortcut table on it too... well 'cause I had the room. Now, I really intend this sheet to be geared toward newbies who are trying to choose what race(s) they might like to play. You'll notice a 'quick summary' column, where I made up a short phrase that, to me, sums up the race. (and is kinda funny, too)

Keep in mind this is still a rough draft, so the information might still be a tad incomplete or just plain WRONG. That's where you guys come in. Please download this and let me know what you think might need to be added, subtracted (multiplied? divided? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), changed, rebuked, flogged, hugged, etc.

So without further ado, here's the link:
Gothmog's Somewhat Nifty Dominions II Quick Reference Sheet (http://members.cox.net/nelsons/Dominions2_quick_reference.pdf)

I know some of my quick summaries are a little dry, too. Feel free to give me suggestions!

MythicalMino

January 15th, 2004, 07:13 PM

I think it looks very nice....puts it all in one spot (the nation overviews)

Chris

Saber Cherry

January 15th, 2004, 07:24 PM

Well, I think your chart is AWESOME!! It looks great! In fact, I think it ought to be distributed with the game=)

A couple suggestions on how to make it even better:

First, I think the magic icons rather then magic names are an excellent idea; it lets you see what magic the nation has much more quickly than reading the words. But you might want to take it one more step... specifically... under Priests, instead of "weak, average, etc" you could show the holy symbols, so "weak" would be replaced with 2 holy symbols, "strong" with 4 holies, "blood sacrifice" with a blood symbol or bloodslave symbol, and "unholy" or "reanimate" with unholy candles, corrseponding to the number on their highest-level unholy priest.

Second: Again, the magic icons are cool. And you seem to have them in order of strength (Ulm goes Earth, then Fire, for example). But it would be (IMO) even better if you could represent the max level in each path. For example, giving Ulm 2 earths and 1 fire icon, with the earths stacked together, overlapping like the way experience stars overlap so they don't take too much space. Hope that describes it well enough=) So Ulm would become "EE F", Abysia would become "FFF BB AA", and so forth.

Third: Randoms would also be good here! If you could also add random path symbols, that would be nice... if you know ahead of time that a nation gets a mage with 2 or 3 randoms, that could certainly affect pretender design!

Fourth: The themes can be VERY different and often have completely different magic. So... this would be twice as much work as you've already done... but rather than starting a game with each theme each time to check it out before designing a REAL god, I'd love to have a chart just like yours, but whith a complete entry for each theme, as though it was a nation.

Well, those are my suggestions. But I think what you've done is excellent, and I applaud it=)

-Cherry

Johan K

January 15th, 2004, 07:25 PM

Very nice!

I think we'll put on the Illwinter page if you don't mind.

Gothmog

January 15th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Johan K:
Very nice!

I think we'll put on the Illwinter page if you don't mind. I don't mind at all, but please wait until I release the final Version. I'm pretty certain I'm going to incorporate changes gleaned from this thread.

Taqwus

January 15th, 2004, 07:51 PM

Damn spiffy. Themes do change things, 'tho.
Jotuns -- technically giants, not titans. Titans are more of a Greco-Roman concept, aren't they?
Man -- the Tuatha make me think more of Ireland than England. "British", perhaps, or the Isles of the Mighty.
Marignon -- more French.
If you're going to note assassins (e.g. Machaka), they also are available to Abysia, C'tis, Marignon, Pythium, R'lyeh.
Pythium -- under 'special', I'd suggest easy Communion.
Pangaea -- add Blood, for Pandemoniacs.

aldin

January 15th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Whoa! Awesome! Love it! The nation descriptions are wonderful. If you make the changes Cherry suggested it'd be worth laminating. Thanks for doing it and making it available.

~Aldin

Saber Cherry

January 15th, 2004, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
under Priests, instead of "weak, average, etc" you could show the holy symbols, so "weak" would be replaced with 2 holy symbols, "strong" with 4 holies, "blood sacrifice" with a blood symbol or bloodslave symbol, and "unholy" or "reanimate" with unholy candles, corrseponding to the number on their highest-level unholy priest.On second thought, newbies would not know that unholy candles mean you can reanimate stuff, so keep the "reanimates dead" statement under the priest info, in addition to the unholy candles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Gothmog

January 15th, 2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Taqwus:
Damn spiffy. Themes do change things, 'tho.
Jotuns -- technically giants, not titans. Titans are more of a Greco-Roman concept, aren't they?
Man -- the Tuatha make me think more of Ireland than England. "British", perhaps, or the Isles of the Mighty.
Marignon -- more French.
If you're going to note assassins (e.g. Machaka), they also are available to Abysia, C'tis, Marignon, Pythium, R'lyeh.
Pythium -- under 'special', I'd suggest easy Communion.
Pangaea -- add Blood, for Pandemoniacs. Thanks for the corrections and suggestions, Taqwus, I'll implement them soon.

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Well, I think your chart is AWESOME!! It looks great! In fact, I think it ought to be distributed with the game=)
Thanks!

A couple suggestions on how to make it even better:

First, I think the magic icons rather then magic names are an excellent idea; it lets you see what magic the nation has much more quickly than reading the words. But you might want to take it one more step... specifically... under Priests, instead of "weak, average, etc" you could show the holy symbols, so "weak" would be replaced with 2 holy symbols, "strong" with 4 holies, "blood sacrifice" with a blood symbol or bloodslave symbol, and "unholy" or "reanimate" with unholy candles, corrseponding to the number on their highest-level unholy priest.
I love this idea, I'm going to have to shrink the icons down a bit to get it all to fit... hmmm. Maybe I'll cut the key shortcuts out entirely and stretch the table to take up the whole page.

Second: Again, the magic icons are cool. And you seem to have them in order of strength (Ulm goes Earth, then Fire, for example). But it would be (IMO) even better if you could represent the max level in each path. For example, giving Ulm 2 earths and 1 fire icon, with the earths stacked together, overlapping like the way experience stars overlap so they don't take too much space. Hope that describes it well enough=) So Ulm would become "EE F", Abysia would become "FFF BB AA", and so forth.
Yeah, I tried to put them in order of strengh. You're right, adding multiple magic icons would make it much easier to get a good overview. Thing is, I don't exactly know all that info. You think you could either a.) look it up and post it here, or b.) point me to an already made xls that has the info?

Third: Randoms would also be good here! If you could also add random path symbols, that would be nice... if you know ahead of time that a nation gets a mage with 2 or 3 randoms, that could certainly affect pretender design!
Ooh, another good idea. I'll put that in too.

Fourth: The themes can be VERY different and often have completely different magic. So... this would be twice as much work as you've already done... but rather than starting a game with each theme each time to check it out before designing a REAL god, I'd love to have a chart just like yours, but whith a complete entry for each theme, as though it was a nation.
Well, this is perhaps the greatest idea yet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I love to do this, but I confess gathering the info for it is probably too much of a task for me. If you guys would like to post the info here, tho. I'd be happy to incorporate it.

Well, those are my suggestions. But I think what you've done is excellent, and I applaud it=)

-Cherry

apoger

January 15th, 2004, 08:27 PM

Absolutely outstanding!
Great work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Saber Cherry

January 15th, 2004, 09:31 PM

<<replaced>>

[ January 15, 2004, 20:24: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Kjeld

January 15th, 2004, 09:48 PM

Marignon looks much more spanish than french (inquisition and, in the theme, navigators)

UNIVAC

January 15th, 2004, 09:51 PM

IMPRESSIVE!
Thanks for sharing your work with us!!
Keep it rolling!

January 15th, 2004, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

Arc: SSS N F E A W ??? HHH hpr srm
A quick question: Why FEAW here? I know mystics get a random in elemental magic, but still, why not represent them as random (seeing that you also have ??? later on)? It's not guaranteed that you'll start with all of these, and it's not included in you initial mage selection.

And a quick note : Jotunheim is spelled "Jotumheim" in the pdf.

Gandalf Parker

January 15th, 2004, 10:35 PM

EXCELLENT work. Another great example that Users can fill in the blanks nicely. Especially for a game where the devs allow the re-use of in-game graphics.
Thank You

[ January 15, 2004, 20:35: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Saber Cherry

January 15th, 2004, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by HJ:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

Arc: SSS N F E A W ??? HHH hpr srm
A quick question: Why FEAW here? I know mystics get a random in elemental magic, but still, why not represent them as random (seeing that you also have ??? later on)? It's not guaranteed that you'll start with all of these, and it's not included in you initial mage selection. <hr /></blockquote>In my experience, if you build 2 or 3 mystics, you will have all the elemental paths at at least level 1. Technically Dominions has "#" (random elemental) "$" (random sorcery) and "?" (random magic) but these are not shown in the game, so there are no graphics but "?" for the PDF.

Gothmog

January 15th, 2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
The whole amazing glut of info *snipped* Good GRIEF, Saber Cherry. You're amazing. I'll try and get this stuff in over the next few days...
Great job! Boy do I have my work cut out for me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oh and great addition of the leader types. That'll work great.

Saber Cherry

January 15th, 2004, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Gothmog:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
The whole amazing glut of info *snipped* Good GRIEF, Saber Cherry. You're amazing. I'll try and get this stuff in over the next few days...
Great job! Boy do I have my work cut out for me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oh and great addition of the leader types. That'll work great. <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, you BETTER appreciate it! I was supposed to be working and you distracted me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. This might not all fit on your cute little reference chart, so if it doesn't, don't worry=) However, some things you might be able to condense by iconizing them: Flying, Poison, Stealthy, Fireproof, Trample, and etc have icons... and some, like Heavy and Light Cavalry, might be iconized by cutting a typical HCAV and LCAV unit pic from the game.

But please, don't feel pressured to do a huge amount of work just because I posted some information - if it's not fun, don't bother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ January 15, 2004, 21:14: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Saber Cherry

January 16th, 2004, 01:17 AM

Default Theme Nation Overview

National Priests and Mages:

Abbreviations: Fire Earth Air Water aStral Death Nature Blood Holy Unholy

Aby: FFF BBB SS ? HHHH
Atl: WWW SS ?? HHHH
Pyt: SSS AA W ? HHHH
Man: NNN AA ? HH
Ulm: EE F HH
Cti: DDD N S ? HHHH
Arc: SSS N F E A W ??? HHH
Cae: AAA WW ? HHH
Erm: DD SS ? UUU
Mar: FFF SS ? HHHH
Pan: NNN EE BB ? HHH
Van: AAA EEE B ? HHH
Jot: WW BB D N ?? HHH
Rly: SSS W ?? HHH
Mic: BBB WW SS FF HHHH
Tie: WW A S F ? HHH
Mac: FF EE NN D ? HHH

National Troops:

arc=archers, xbow=crossbow, lbow=longbow, cmpbow=composite bow, sling=slingers, jav=javelins, psu=powerful sacred units, trmp=tramplers, bzk=berzerkers, fly=fliers, stealth=stealthy units, standard=has a standard-bearing unit, HCAV=heavy cavalry, MCAV=medium cavalry, LCAV=light cavalry, HI=Heavy Infantry, MI=Medium Inf, LI=Light Infantry, MLT=militia, monster=monsters (like hydras and spiders), poison (poison-using units), shifter (shape-shifters, like werewolves and were-spiders)

Cutoffs:
Light = Protection < 9
Medium = Protection 9 - 15
Heavy = Protection 16+

Aby: MI HI psu bzk monster
Atl: LI HI psu trmp poison
Pyt: MI HI HCAV jav monster poison standard
Man: MLT MI HI LCAV HCAV lbow sling psu stealth
Ulm: HI HCAV xbow
Cti: MLT LI MI HI jav monster poison standard
Arc: LI HI LCAV MCAV sling psu trmp monster
Cae: LI MI HI arc psu trmp fly monster
Erm: MI HI jav standard
Mar: MI HI HCAV xbow psu
Pan: MLT LI MI MCAV HCAV jav lbow trmp bzk fly stealth monster
Van: MI jav bzk psu stealth shifter fly
Jot: MLT MI HI LCAV jav stealth
Rly: MLT LI MI HI psu trmp monster
Mic: MLT LI MI sling jav psu standard shifter fly
Tie: MI HI LCAV MCAV cmpbow
Mac: MLT LI HI LCAV HCAV arc jav stealth psu monster poison

National Leaders:

assn=assassins, spy=spies, scout=scout, sprst=Stealth PRieSTs, sacrifice=Blood SaCrifice, srm=SacRed Mages, summon=summon allies, fly=flying, sail=sailing max=max leadership, stmax=stealthy max leadership

Aby: assn fly srm sacrifice max=50
Atl: scout srm max=125
Pyt: scout assn srm max=50
Man: scout spy srm max=50 stmax=25
Ulm: spy max=50
Cti: assn max=75
Arc: scout srm max=75
Cae: scout fly max=25
Erm: summon max=25
Mar: scout spy assn sprst srm max=80 stmax=25
Pan: scout sprst summon fly srm stmax=50
Van: scout sprst sail srm sacrifice stmax=50
Jot: scout max=50 stmax=25
Rly: scout summon srm max=25
Mic: scout summon srm sacrifice max=75
Tie: scout spy srm max=75
Mac: assn sprst shifter max=50 stmax=10

National Ranged Weapons:

sbow=short bow, xbow=crossbow, lbow=longbow, cmpbow=composite bow, sling=sling, jav=javelins, web=spider web spit, p.sling=poison sling

Aby: -
Atl: -
Pyt: jav
Man: lbow, sling
Ulm: arbalest
Cti: jav, p.sling
Arc: sling, jav, sbow
Cae: sbow
Erm: jav
Mar: xbow
Pan: lbow, jav
Van: jav
Jot: jav, boulders
Rly: mind bLast
Mic: jav, sling
Tie: cmpbow
Mac: sbow, jav, web

National Abilities:

Aby: heatproof, radiate heat, superhuman stats, likes heat+3, supply immune to death scale, wasteland survival, low precision
Atl: amphibious, aquatic units
Pyt: 2 strat move, communion slaves,
Man: spell-songs, cheap temples, exceptional archers
Ulm: cheap forging, drain immunity, low MR, super-heavy armor, +25% resources at castles
Cti: coldblooded, poison resistant, likes heat+1, low morale
Arc: troop-healing, scrying in dominion, cheap labs
Cae: flying, coldproof, high precision, cold-tempering armor, eat a lot, likes cold+3, magical weapons
Erm:
Mar: priests suppress enemy dominion, high morale
Pan: recuperation for all units, low morale
Van: glamour on sacred units, likes cold+1
Jot: coldproof, giant and tiny units, likes cold+2
Rly: amphibious, aquatic units, high MR, high morale units, mindless units, magical units, mind-bLasting, hybrids in coastal provinces
Mic: priests cannot preach, must blood sacrifice
Tie: can summon celestial warriors, order domain RARELY increases province defense
Mac: likes heat+2

-Cherry

P.S. Someone else can do the subthemes=)

Gothmog

January 16th, 2004, 02:58 AM

Well, here's a quick update.
Update image (http://members.cox.net/nelsons/Quick_Reference_progress_Snap.png)

I've tried to incorporate as much of Saber Cherry excellent data, but I've tried to forgo the whole abbreviation thing. (This was supposed to be geared toward newbies after all.) I'll probably have to drop the keyboard shortcuts, and put it on a LEGAL size sheet because of adding in the Themes. What do you think of the screenshot?

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

P.S. Someone else can do the subthemes=) Well, everyone since we can't bother SC to gather anymore info, on account of SCs already impressive contribution, please help by gathering theme information in the form SCs already submitted. As you can see on the screenshot, I've got alot of blank cells to fill... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

January 16th, 2004, 03:07 AM

I can give you all the information on the themes, but from what I can tell what exactly do you want?

I dont' quite get the national mages part, you want to put the highest possible of each type? Or the strongest mage/priest?

There are not really all that many units per race. Maybe you could just add the basic types and the special ones.

And maybe a little section with the name of what the Sacreds are.

I can compile a list together if you can use the information. I already have most of it from doing the Nation/Theme Strength/Weakness guide that is in progress.

January 16th, 2004, 03:14 AM

Ok, here's the magic per theme:
Abysia Humans: FFF BBB SS ? HHHH
Pythium Serpents: NN W ? HHH
Man Tuatha: AAA NN ? HHH
Ulm Faith: E ? HHH
Ulm Forest: SS BB DD ? HH
C'tis Tombs: DDD F N S ? HHHH UUUU
C'tis Miasma: DD NN W S ? HHHH
Caelum Raptors: AAA DD E W HH
Marignon Fires: FFF SS ? HHHH
Marignon Demonic: FF BB ? HHHH
Marignon Conquerors: AA SS F ? HHHH
Pangaea New: NNN E ? HH
Pangaea Carrion: NNN DD HH UUU
Vanheim Midgard: AA SS B ?? HHH
Vanheim Hellheim: DDD AA EE B ? HHH
Jotunheim Utgard: SS DD WW BB N ? HHH
Jotunheim Niefelheim: WWW DD BB N ?? HHH
T'ien Ch'i Barbarians: WW F A S D ? HHH
T'ien Ch'i S&A: WW F S A E N D ?? HHH
Ermor Soul: DDD ? UUUU
Ermor Ashen: DDD ? UUUU

edit: added magic available through national mage summons

[ January 16, 2004, 06:17: Message edited by: HJ ]

Saber Cherry

January 16th, 2004, 03:23 AM

Looks great! In the meantime, Fires of the Faith is exactly the same as Marignon default, so you can probably skip it=)

Oh, and sorry for the abbreviations... by summoning, I meant free summoning. So Mictlan's leaders can get free slaves warriors; they don't get any special demons as far as I know, though they might.

Anyway... hmm... the chart looks excellent, but it's also getting a little crowded. So if you can't fit everything, just dump some of the info=) A concise chart is as good as a thorough one! I'll try to make some icons for you to use and send them, like overlapped magic symbols. That would save SOME space.

Edit: I emailed you some slightly smaller, slightly cleaner magic symbols...

-Cherry

[ January 16, 2004, 02:04: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Saber Cherry

January 16th, 2004, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by HJ:
I didn't know whether to do national summons.... For national mage summons (Ermor, Black Forest)... yes.

January 16th, 2004, 05:43 AM

If you want you can use the starting spells file I made, I'll post it here for you in case you use it, since you are probably busy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Mictian (Base) - Bind Fiend (2B), Bind Spine Devil (2B)
Abysia (Base and Blood of Humans) - Flare (3F)
Atlantian (Base) - Friendly Currents (2W)
Pythium (Base) - Communion Master (1S), Communion Slave (1S)
Pythium (Serpent Cult) - Horned Serpents (1N)
Arcoscephale (Base)- Astral Window (2S)
Machaka (Base) - Seven Year Fever (1N1F), Blindness (1F)
R'lyeh (Base) - Mind Burn (2S)
Man (Base and Last of the Tuatha) - Soothing Song, Healing Song, Song of Bravery (All "Songs" 1N), Sleep (2N)
Pangaea (Base and New Era) - Tune of Fear, Tune of Growth, Tune of Dancing Death (All "Tunes" 1N), Panic (2N)
Pangaea (Carrion Woods) - Carrion Lord (3N2D), Carrion Lady (2N1D), Carrion Centaur (1N1D)
Ulm (Base and Iron Faith) - Legions of Steel (3E)
Ulm (Black Forest) - Sanguine Heritage (3D3B)
C'tis (Base) - Terror (3D)
C'tis (Desert Tombs) - Revive Tomb Consort (1D), Revive Tomb Priest (2D), Revive Tomb King (3D), Terror (3D)
C'tis (Miasma) - Summon Bog Beast (2N2D), Terror (3D), Decay (1D)
Caelum (Base and Return of the Raptors) - Wind Guide (2A)
Marignon (Base, Fires of the Faith, Conquerors of the Sea) - Holy Pyre (2F)
Malrignon (Diabolical Faith) - Bind Harlequin (1B)
Vanheim (Base) - Phantasmal Warrior (1A)
Vanheim (Midgard) - Ghost Wolves (3A)
Vanheim (Helheim) - Phantasmal Warrior (1A), Reanimation (1D)
Jotunheim (Base) - Reanimation (1D), Curse (1S1N)
Jotunheim (Niefelheim) - Illwinter (5B2W), Breath of Winter (2W)
Jotunheim (Utgard) - Luck (1S), Curse (1S1N)
Ermor (Base) - Body Ethereal (1S)
Ermor (Ashen Empire) - Revive Lictor, Censar, Bishop, Acolyte, Wailing Lady, Spectator (2D), Revive Arch Bishop, Dusk Elder (3D), Raise Skeletons (2D)
Ermor (Soul Gate) - Dark Knowledge (1D), Revive Wailing Lady, Spectator, Shadow Tribune (2D), Revive Dusk Elder, Wraith Centurion (3D), Revive Wraith Senator (4D), Revive Wraith Consul (5D)
T'ien Ch'i (Base) - Celestial Soldiers (2A1S), Celestial Servant (1E1S), Flight (2A)
T'ien Ch'i (Spring and Autumn) - Demon of Heavenly Rivers (1W1S), Demon of Heavenly Fires (1F1S), Spirit Mastery (1D), Flight (2A)
T'ien Ch'i (Barbarian Kings) - Celestial Soldiers (2A1S), Celestial Servant (1E1S), Spirit Mastery (1D), Flight (2A)

Keir Maxwell

January 16th, 2004, 07:04 AM

*applause*

January 16th, 2004, 04:57 PM

Here are also the Sacred Units Only for you, in case you want to put a reference on them somewhere on your quickref.

Mictian (Base) - Eagle Warrior (15G, 3R), Jaguar Warrior(20G, 4R), Sun Warrior (17G, 14R)
Abysia (Base) - Lava Warrior (55G, 30R)
Abysia (Blood of Humans) - Guardian of the Pyre (55G, 30R)
Atlantian (Base) - Mother Guard (60G, 27R)
Pythium (Base) - Battle Vestal (15G, 4R)
Pythium (Serpent Cult) - Hydra (300G, 20R), Hydra Hatchling (60G, 1R), Serpent Capharact (60G, 58R)
Arcoscephale (Base)- Heart Companion (25G, 28R)
Machaka (Base) - Black Hunter (125G, 38R)
R'lyeh (Base) - Numerous Void Beasts (Summoned from Site)
Man (Base) - Warden of Avalon (40G, 26R)
Man (Last of the Tuatha) - Cu Sidhe (16G, 1R), Daoine Sidhe (35G, 16R)
Pangaea (Base) - White Centaur (70G, 11R)
Pangaea (New Era) - Dryad Hoplite (50G, 22R)
Pangaea (Carrion Woods) - Black Centaur (70G, 11R)
Ulm (Base and Black Forest) - None
Ulm (Iron Faith) - Black Templar (90G, 70R)
C'tis (Base) - Sacred Serpent (40G, 1R), Serpent Dancer (20G, 5R)
C'tis (Desert Tombs) - Sacred Serpent (40G, 1R), Tomb Wyrm (Reanimated)
C'tis (Miasma) - Sacred Serpent (40G, 1R)
Caelum (Base) - Temple Guard (20G, 43R)
Caelum (Return of the Raptors) - None
Marignon (Base, Fires of Faith, and Diabolic Faith) - Flagellant (10G, 5R), Knight of the Chalice (90G, 61R)
Marignon (Conquerors of the Sea) - Flagellant (10G, 5R)
Vanheim (Base and Helheim) - Van (70G, 16R), Valkyrie (60G, 15R)
Vanheim (Midgard) - Van (70G, 16R)
Jotunheim (Iron Woods and Utgard) - Jotun Woodsman (50G, 11R)
Jotunheim (Niefelheim) - Niefel Giant (150G, 40R), Jotun Woodsman (50G, 11R)
Ermor (Base) - Shadow Vestal [x2] (Summoned from Site)
Ermor (Ashen Empire) - Wailing Lady [x1] (Summoned, 15 Death Gems), Knight of the Unholy Seplulchre (Domain recruited, Castle Only)
Ermor (Soul Gate) - Wailing Lady [x1] (Summoned, 15 Death Gems)
T'ien Ch'i (Base and Barbarian Kings) - Celestial Soldiers [x5] (Summoned, 20 Air Gems), Celestial Servant [x1] (Summoned, 4 Earth Gems)
T'ien Ch'i (Spring and Autumn) - Demon of Heavenly Rivers [x1] (Summoned, 4 Water Gems), Demon of Heavenly Fires [x1] (Summoned, 3 Fire Gems)

Gothmog

January 16th, 2004, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
*snip*
Edit: I emailed you some slightly smaller, slightly cleaner magic symbols...

-Cherry Thanks, Cherry! These'll look great and free up some much needed real estate.

Originally posted by HJ:
Ok, here's the magic per theme:
*snip*
edit: added magic available through national mage summons Great, HJ. Good job, I'll fill those in today.

________________________________
Well, I've been thinking about this sheet all Last night, and I think that were starting to get unfocused as to the scope of my original idea; that being to make a newbie reference sheet to help people new to Dom2 get a grip on both pretender/race creation and on what to expect when meeting another race for the 1st time.

All this information that Saber Cherry and Zen have compliled is great, but I think I'm going to have to make a second more advanced reference sheet for us grognards.

So, here's my current plan.
On the newbie sheet, instead of the generic descriptions of 'H.Inf', 'M.Calv', 'Monsters', etc, I'd like to give newbies a better idea of what the units are, so, 'spearmen', 'war lobsters', 'centaur cataphracts' would allow newbies to be able to look at the sheet and say: "Oooh, satyrs, centaurs and minotaurs, oh my! I wanna play Pangaea!"
Whereas on the advanced sheet(s), we could have a more generic description of units, but also extra info like starting spells, sacred unit info, type of ranged weapons, leader qualities, etc.

So what do you think?

liga

January 16th, 2004, 05:50 PM

So what do you think?That it's a great job! thkx ... I'm happy to be still a newbie so I can take advantage of both your ref. sheets ... first the one for newbies and second the one for advanced player!

Kristoffer O

January 16th, 2004, 06:26 PM

Mictlan has 2 N, not 1.

aldin

January 16th, 2004, 07:02 PM

Gothmog,

First off, thanks again for all the work you're pouring into this - the results so far are tremendous. The idea of splitting the sheet into a N00b sheet and an advanced reference sheet is a good one. In fact, why not go a step further and do three sheets - a N00b sheet, a standard sheet and an advanced (theme) sheet? It divides up rather nicely that way and eliminates the need for things like legal sized sheets. Anyhoo, just a suggestion.

~Aldin

Saber Cherry

January 16th, 2004, 08:38 PM

Default Theme Nation Overview

Okey dokey, this includes additions from HJ and Zen, and KO's correction. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product =) It's been looking very professional!

National Priests and Mages:

Abbreviations: Fire Earth Air Water aStral Death Nature Blood Holy Unholy

Aby: FFF BBB SS ? HHHH
Aby Humans: FFF BBB SS ? HHHH
Atl: WWW SS ?? HHHH
Pyt: SSS AA W ? HHHH
Pyt Serpents: NN W ? HHH
Man: NNN AA ? HH
Man Tuatha: AAA NN ? HHH
Ulm: EE F HH
Ulm Faith: E ? HHH
Ulm Forest: SS BB DD ? HH
Cti: DDD N S ? HHHH
Cti Tombs: DDD F N S ? HHHH UUUU
Cti Miasma: DD NN W S ? HHHH
Arc: SSS N F E A W ??? HHH
Cae: AAA WW ? HHH
Cae Raptors: AAA DD E W HH
Erm: DD SS ? UUU
Erm Soul: DDD ? UUUU
Erm Ashen: DDD ? UUUU
Mar: FFF SS ? HHHH
Mar Demonic: FF BB ? HHHH
Mar Conquerors: AA SS F ? HHHH
Pan: NNN EE BB ? HHH
Pan New: NNN E ? HH
Pan Carrion: NNN DD HH UUU
Van: AAA EEE B ? HHH
Van Midgard: AA SS B ?? HHH
Van Hellheim: DDD AA EE B ? HHH
Jot: WW BB D N ?? HHH
Jot Utgard: SS DD WW BB N ? HHH
Jot Niefelheim: WWW DD BB N ?? HHH
Rly: SSS W ?? HHH
Mic: BBB WW SS NN FF HHHH
Tie: WW A S F ? HHH
Tie Barbarians: WW F A S D ? HHH
Tie S&A: WW F S A E N D ?? HHH
Mac: FF EE NN D ? HHH

National Troops:

arc=archers, xbow=crossbow, lbow=longbow, cmpbow=composite bow, sling=slingers, jav=javelins, psu=powerful sacred units, trmp=tramplers, bzk=berzerkers, fly=fliers, stealth=stealthy units, standard=has a standard-bearing unit, HCAV=heavy cavalry, MCAV=medium cavalry, LCAV=light cavalry, HI=Heavy Infantry, MI=Medium Inf, LI=Light Infantry, MLT=militia, monster=monsters (like hydras and spiders), poison (poison-using units), shifter (shape-shifters, like werewolves and were-spiders)

Cutoffs:
Light = Protection 0 - 8
Medium = Protection 9 - 15
Heavy = Protection 16+

Aby: MI HI psu bzk monster
Atl: LI HI psu trmp poison
Pyt: MI HI HCAV jav monster poison standard
Man: MLT MI HI LCAV HCAV lbow sling psu stealth
Ulm: HI HCAV xbow
Cti: MLT LI MI HI jav monster poison standard
Arc: LI HI LCAV MCAV sling psu trmp monster
Cae: LI MI HI arc psu trmp fly monster
Erm: MI HI jav standard
Mar: MI HI HCAV xbow psu
Pan: MLT LI MI MCAV HCAV jav lbow trmp bzk fly stealth monster
Van: MI jav bzk psu stealth shifter fly
Jot: MLT MI HI LCAV jav stealth
Rly: MLT LI MI HI psu trmp monster
Mic: MLT LI MI sling jav psu standard shifter fly
Tie: MI HI LCAV MCAV cmpbow
Mac: MLT LI HI LCAV HCAV arc jav stealth psu monster poison

National Leaders:

assn=assassins, spy=spies, scout=scout, sprst=Stealth PRieSTs, sacrifice=Blood SaCrifice, srm=SacRed Mages, summon=summon allies, fly=flying, sail=sailing max=max leadership, stmax=stealthy max leadership

Aby: assn fly srm sacrifice max=50
Atl: scout srm max=125
Pyt: scout assn srm max=50
Man: scout spy srm max=50 stmax=25
Ulm: spy max=50
Cti: assn max=75
Arc: scout srm max=75
Cae: scout fly max=25
Erm: summon max=25
Mar: scout spy assn sprst srm max=80 stmax=25
Pan: scout sprst summon fly srm stmax=50
Van: scout sprst sail srm sacrifice stmax=50
Jot: scout max=50 stmax=25
Rly: scout summon srm max=25
Mic: scout summon srm sacrifice max=75
Tie: scout spy srm max=75
Mac: assn sprst shifter max=50 stmax=10

National Ranged Weapons:

sbow=short bow, xbow=crossbow, lbow=longbow, cmpbow=composite bow, sling=sling, jav=javelins, web=spider web spit, p.sling=poison sling

Aby: -
Atl: -
Pyt: jav
Man: lbow, sling
Ulm: arbalest
Cti: jav, p.sling
Arc: sling, jav, sbow
Cae: sbow
Erm: jav
Mar: xbow
Pan: lbow, jav
Van: jav
Jot: jav, boulders
Rly: mind bLast
Mic: jav, sling
Tie: cmpbow, xbow
Mac: sbow, jav, web

National Abilities:

Aby: heatproof, radiate heat, superhuman stats, likes heat+3, supply immune to death scale, wasteland survival, low precision
Atl: amphibious, aquatic units
Pyt: 2 strat move, communion slaves,
Man: spell-songs, cheap temples, exceptional archers
Ulm: cheap forging, drain immunity, low MR, super-heavy armor, +25% resources at castles
Cti: coldblooded, poison resistant, likes heat+1, low morale
Arc: troop-healing, scrying in dominion, cheap labs
Cae: flying, coldproof, high precision, cold-tempering armor, eat a lot, likes cold+3, magical weapons
Erm:
Mar: priests suppress enemy dominion, high morale
Pan: recuperation for all units, low morale
Van: glamour on sacred units, likes cold+1
Jot: coldproof, giant and tiny units, likes cold+2
Rly: amphibious, aquatic units, high MR, high morale units, mindless units, magical units, mind-bLasting, hybrids in coastal provinces
Mic: priests cannot preach, must blood sacrifice
Tie: can summon celestial warriors, order domain RARELY increases province defense
Mac: likes heat+2

National Spells:

Mictian (Base) - Bind Fiend (2B), Bind Spine Devil (2B)
Abysia (Base and Blood of Humans) - Flare (3F)
Atlantian (Base) - Friendly Currents (2W)
Pythium (Base) - Communion Master (1S), Communion Slave (1S)
Pythium (Serpent Cult) - Horned Serpents (1N)
Arcoscephale (Base)- Astral Window (2S)
Machaka (Base) - Seven Year Fever (1N1F), Blindness (1F)
R'lyeh (Base) - Mind Burn (2S)
Man (Base and Last of the Tuatha) - Soothing Song, Healing Song, Song of Bravery (All "Songs" 1N), Sleep (2N)
Pangaea (Base and New Era) - Tune of Fear, Tune of Growth, Tune of Dancing Death (All "Tunes" 1N), Panic (2N)
Pangaea (Carrion Woods) - Carrion Lord (3N2D), Carrion Lady (2N1D), Carrion Centaur (1N1D)
Ulm (Base and Iron Faith) - Legions of Steel (3E)
Ulm (Black Forest) - Sanguine Heritage (3D3B)
C'tis (Base) - Terror (3D)
C'tis (Desert Tombs) - Revive Tomb Consort (1D), Revive Tomb Priest (2D), Revive Tomb King (3D), Terror (3D)
C'tis (Miasma) - Summon Bog Beast (2N2D), Terror (3D), Decay (1D)
Caelum (Base and Return of the Raptors) - Wind Guide (2A)
Marignon (Base, Fires of the Faith, Conquerors of the Sea) - Holy Pyre (2F)
Malrignon (Diabolical Faith) - Bind Harlequin (1B)
Vanheim (Base) - Phantasmal Warrior (1A)
Vanheim (Midgard) - Ghost Wolves (3A)
Vanheim (Helheim) - Phantasmal Warrior (1A), Reanimation (1D)
Jotunheim (Base) - Reanimation (1D), Curse (1S1N)
Jotunheim (Niefelheim) - Illwinter (5B2W), Breath of Winter (2W)
Jotunheim (Utgard) - Luck (1S), Curse (1S1N)
Ermor (Base) - Body Ethereal (1S)
Ermor (Ashen Empire) - Revive Lictor, Censar, Bishop, Acolyte, Wailing Lady, Spectator (2D), Revive Arch Bishop, Dusk Elder (3D), Raise Skeletons (2D)
Ermor (Soul Gate) - Dark Knowledge (1D), Revive Wailing Lady, Spectator, Shadow Tribune (2D), Revive Dusk Elder, Wraith Centurion (3D), Revive Wraith Senator (4D), Revive Wraith Consul (5D)
T'ien Ch'i (Base) - Celestial Soldiers (2A1S), Celestial Servant (1E1S), Flight (2A)
T'ien Ch'i (Spring and Autumn) - Demon of Heavenly Rivers (1W1S), Demon of Heavenly Fires (1F1S), Spirit Mastery (1D), Flight (2A)
T'ien Ch'i (Barbarian Kings) - Celestial Soldiers (2A1S), Celestial Servant (1E1S), Spirit Mastery (1D), Flight (2A)

-Cherry

[ January 17, 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Gothmog

January 17th, 2004, 02:13 AM

Quick progress report...
I'll post one tonight. It's coming together nicely. The icons that Cherry made look great!

Cherry - you wouldn't be able to make some holy/unholy icons would you?

Saber Cherry

January 17th, 2004, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Gothmog:
Quick progress report...
I'll post one tonight. It's coming together nicely. The icons that Cherry made look great!

Cherry - you wouldn't be able to make some holy/unholy icons would you? I'm on it=)

Sammual

January 17th, 2004, 02:28 AM

GREAT job!

Sammual

Saber Cherry

January 17th, 2004, 03:43 AM

Ok: I made a sheet (bitmap) of every icon I could find in Dominions. If anybody wants it (for making guides, walkthroughs, Dominions websites, etc), or wants to post it on the internet, pm me and I'll send it to you!

Gothmog

January 17th, 2004, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Ok: I made a sheet (bitmap) of every icon I could find in Dominions. If anybody wants it (for making guides, walkthroughs, Dominions websites, etc), or wants to post it on the internet, pm me and I'll send it to you! Wow, SC. Amazing job on these!
Thanks!
Heck now all I need is a copy of all the nation flags.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Seriously you don't need to if you don't feel like it, the ones I have look fine.

Saber Cherry

January 17th, 2004, 07:46 AM

Oh, I forgot about those http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif Ah well, maybe some other time=) The existing ones look fine!

Gothmog

January 17th, 2004, 12:13 PM

New rough draft:
Dominions2_quick_reference_rough.pdf (http://members.cox.net/nelsons/Dominions2_quick_reference_rough.pdf)

Well, here you can see how far I've come. This is the rough of the NEWBIE quick reference, not the advanced quick reference. This is not really geared for printing (The edges won't print on most printers), so don't try it. Besides, it's still incomplete.

Please tell me what you think. I'm still wrestling with the right side of the page. I still think the newbie guide needs to be ore descriptive of the units as opposed to standard abbreviations.

The blank grey fields are information I still need to gather, feel free to submit any info you can to this thread.

Other thoughts:
Research
Saber Cherrys bitmap of the icons included a neat research icon. How, if at all would we quantify race research ability?

Other Icons
Saber Cherry has also gleaned all the ability icons from the game. I'm torn to include them in the newbie quick reference (henceforth NQR), because newbies won't be able to recognize the icons. I'm thinking the advanced quick reference (henceforth AQR http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) should have them however, because it'll free up much needed space for all the extra info I plan to add. Maybe I'll add an icon legend to the AQR.

Well, I'll try and work on it some more tomorrow.
For now, I gotta get some sleep.

Endoperez

January 17th, 2004, 12:36 PM

I have few ideas for showing research:
Either show the cheapest possible research point/upkeep mage when magic scale is at 0, or the best researh/gold proportion (or ratio, is there difference between these two words?) in ten turns?

And thanks, this looks great! You are doing very nice job with this!

Kuroth1

January 17th, 2004, 03:20 PM

Great work guys!!!! I cant wait for you to omplete it... It will really help me a lot....

January 17th, 2004, 05:37 PM

A few minor nitpicking suggestions:

I think you should include Fires of Faith Marignon if possible. We know that it's very similar to regular Marignon, but if you're doing the sheet for the newbies, they probably don't. Hence, you could specifiy what is different in the special Category, and leave everything else the same.

Carrion Pangaea does not have a ? (random magic).

Marignon theme is called "Conquerors of the Sea", not "Sea Conquerors".

Jotunheim is still spelled Jotumheim. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Very nice work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 17, 2004, 15:40: Message edited by: HJ ]

Saber Cherry

January 17th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Looks great!

...However, it makes me think that under Max Units, max undead, max flying, and max magic should probably also be listed.... hmmm. I never tabulated those.

Notes:

Arco: Gets cheap labs
Atlantis: Missile mispelled
Man: Stealth Priest, cheap temples
Ulm: I would say "Cheaper Item Forging" because "superior" always confuses newbies
"Unit Max" column: Not quite wide enough for the word "Normal"
Machaka: Stealth unit limit 10.
Overall: If another column could be added, I would suggest "Heat Scale". But I doubt there's room for that=(

-Cherry

[ January 17, 2004, 20:40: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Gothmog

January 17th, 2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by HJ:
A few minor nitpicking suggestions:

I think you should include Fires of Faith Marignon...*snip*
Very nice work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks! I agree, I think I will add it back in. I've made you're other corrections too. Thanks!

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Looks great!

...However, it makes me think that under Max Units, max undead, max flying, and max magic should probably also be listed.... hmmm. I never tabulated those.

Actually, I've decided to remove the Max Units column entirely from the NQR. I'm thinking for the AQR I'll add a column named 'max units' that'll have an amount followed by an infantry icon for normal units, a steath icon for steath... undead, flying and magic should be easy to add.

Notes:

*snip*
Overall: If another column could be added, I would suggest "Heat Scale". But I doubt there's room for that=(

-Cherry I instituted your other corrections, SC, but I think that any heat scale notes can just be incorporated into the special column.

Wow, this is really starting to come together. I'll post another update tonight.
Hopefully I can release 'NQR RC1' by tomorrow. The AQR won't we out til next week, I'm afraid.

January 18th, 2004, 12:17 AM

A few more corrections:
If you're going to go with Saber's solution to the Arco mystics, i.e. listing all their elemental randoms and then listing ??? later on, you're missing Earth there.

You're also missing Nature in Tien Chi Spring & Autumn.

You have Niefelheim and Utgard the other way around in magic, and Niefelheim is missing one ? (random).

One Death is missing from the regular Jotunheim.

[ January 17, 2004, 22:18: Message edited by: HJ ]

Kuroth1

January 19th, 2004, 10:34 PM

BURP!!!!!

Kuroth1

January 21st, 2004, 02:25 AM

Gothmog is this still being updated??? I was going to print it out whe you guys were close to being finished...

Thanks!

Saber Cherry

January 22nd, 2004, 05:19 AM

I made some new leadership icons - hopefully you'll be able to integrate them.

Gothmog

January 22nd, 2004, 05:49 AM

Yes, I'm still updating it... sadly I've just been hit with a bout of RealLife(tm) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif and have stalled over the past few days. I would like to have the NQR finished by this weekend.

The main problem I'm facing is one of data gathering. I need to fill in the blanks of my Last Version (mainly the data of how the themes differ from their main race). But that requires alot of research=time, and time is somthign that's been hard to come by these Last few days.

January 22nd, 2004, 05:52 AM

If you give us how much, or the kind of way you want it said in, I'm sure we could help you with that.

Example:

Abysia (BoH) Loses Demonbred, Lava Warrior, Warlock and Warlock Apprentice, 1 Fire Gem, Heat Preference =2. Gains Newt, Guardian of the Pyre.

Or "Loses Demons, and Warlocks. Heat Preference 2. Gains anywhere recruit Newt"

[ January 22, 2004, 03:54: Message edited by: Zen ]

January 22nd, 2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Zen:
Heat Preference 2 Its Heat 0 now I believe.

Cheers

Gothmog

January 22nd, 2004, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Zen:
If you give us how much, or the kind of way you want it said in, I'm sure we could help you with that.

Example:

Abysia (BoH) Loses Demonbred, Lava Warrior, Warlock and Warlock Apprentice, 1 Fire Gem, Heat Preference =2. Gains Newt, Guardian of the Pyre.

Or "Loses Demons, and Warlocks. Heat Preference 2. Gains anywhere recruit Newt" Actually, the first example above would be perfect, Zen. I'd need a quick description like that for every theme, I think.

Gothmog

January 26th, 2004, 07:06 PM

I guess interest to finish this has waned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Do any of you still want this completed? I'd like to do it, but I need help...

Gandalf Parker

January 26th, 2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Gothmog:
I guess interest to finish this has waned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Do any of you still want this completed? I'd like to do it, but I need help... Well gee we also have to give him time to play the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Id like to see it finished but I have too much on my plate now. And Im waiting for some responses on my stuff to see which direction to work on.

-- People on the net just dont understand how to pay for free stuff anymore.

PhilD

January 26th, 2004, 08:08 PM

January 26th, 2004, 08:28 PM

Gothmog http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'll post that later tonight. I completely forgot about it. It's been a crazy weekend and the topics on here slide down so fast it's almost impossible to remember what you were looking at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Tonight I'll give you a rundown of each race/theme.

Gothmog

January 26th, 2004, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Zen:
Gothmog http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'll post that later tonight. I completely forgot about it. It's been a crazy weekend and the topics on here slide down so fast it's almost impossible to remember what you were looking at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Tonight I'll give you a rundown of each race/theme. sweet! Thanks, Zen!

Kuroth1

January 27th, 2004, 04:12 AM

Yes please update it and could you post a link to the latest Version...

Thanks a bunch!!!!

January 27th, 2004, 10:17 AM

Alright, each of these is based off of difference from the Base Nation. So if you don't have the information of the base nation, then you can't really tell the difference. If you need me to post the base nations I can do that as well. It's kind of messy as you can tell, sorry about that. The "Domain" and "Gem Income" are only mentioned if they differ from the base nation.

Abysia (BoH) - Loses Demonbred, Lava Warrior, Warlock and Warlock Apprentice, Heat Preference =0. Gains Newt, Guardian of the Pyre. Gem Income = 4 Fire.

Pythium (SC) - Loses Arch-Theurg, Theurg, Theurg Acolyte, Theurg Communicant. Gains Serpent Acolyte, Serpent Priest, Hydra becomes Sacred, Hydra Hatchling becomes Sacred, Serpent Cataphract becomes Sacred. Gem Income = 3 Nature, 2 Water.

Man (LotT) � Loses Knight of Avalon, Loses Warden of Avalon, Lord Warden, Daughter/Mother/Crone of Avalon. Gains Cu Sidhe, Daoine Sidhe, Sidhe Lord, Tuatha. Forced Scales = Magic 1, Luck 1. Gem Income = 3 Air, 2 Nature.

Ulm (IF) � Loses Master Smith. Gains Black Templar, Black Acolyte, Black Priest. Forced Scales = Order 1, Drain 1.

Ulm (BF) � Loses All except (morning star) Infantry of Ulm, All Black Plate Infantry, Black Plate Pikeneers, Sapper, Guardian, Black Knight, Spy, All except (pike) Commander of Ulm, Black Lord, Siege Engineer, Master Smith, Lord Guardian. Gains Ranger of Ulm, Zweihander, Villan, Ghoul Guardian, Ranger Captain, Illuminated One, Member of the 2nd Tier, Wolfherd, Fortune Teller, Vampire Count. Forced Scales = Death 1, Misfortune 1, Magic 1. Gem Income = 1 Nature, 1 Astral, 3 Death.

C�tis (Miasma) � Loses Serpent Dancer, Sauromancer. Gains Marshmaster. Forced Scales = Heat 2. Gem Income = 1 Water, 2 Death, 2 Nature. Domain = Diseased domain. Any non-cold blooded creature in Miasma Domain has a chance to be diseased. +1% Income for each level of Domain in each province you own, -5% Income for each Level of Dominion in each province owned by any other player.

C�tis (DT) � Loses Serpent Dancer, Swamp Guard, Modified Sauromancer (1 Fire instead of 1 Nature). Gains Tomb Wyrm, Grave Consort, Tomb Priest, Tomb King. Forced Scales = Death 2, Heat 2. Gem Income = 4 Death, 1 Fire.

Caelum (RoR) � Loses Temple Guard, Seraphine, High Seraph. Gains Raptor, Raven Guard, Harab Seraph, Harab Elder. Gem Income = 2 Air, 1 Water, 1 Death, 1 Earth.

Ermor (AE) - Loses ALL recruitable units, all units are Undead. Gains Lictor, Censor, Acolyte, Bishop, Arch Bishop, Wailing Lady, Spectator, Dusk Elder. Forced Scales = 2 Death. Gem Income = 10 Death. Domain = Domain automatically generates longdead. Longdead Velite, Longdead Legionnaire and Knight of the Unholy Sepulcher only generated in Provinces with Castles. Domain kills population at a high rate.

Ermor (SG) - Loses ALL recruitable units, all units are Undead. Gains Wailing Lady, Shadow Tribune, Spectator, Dusk Elder, Wraith Centurion, Wraith Consul, Wraith Senator. Forced Scales = 1 Death, 2 Magic. Gem Income = 10 Death. Domain = Domain automatically generates dispossessed spirits. Spectral Legonnaire, Shadow, Shadow Beast only generated in Provinces with Castles. Domain kills population at a high rate.

Marignon (FoF) � Forced Scales = 1 Heat. Domain = Domain Automatically Preaches as a 1st Level Priest, counts as a 2nd Level Priest against enemy dominion.

Marginon (DF) � Loses Initate, Witch Hunter, Grand Master. Gains Diabolist, Goetic Master, Harlequin. Forced Scales = Turmoil 1, Heat 1.

Marignon (CotS) � Loses Knight of the Chalice, Friar, Paladin, Initiate, Witch Hunter, Grand Master. Gains Missionary, Captain, Chartmaker, Royal Navigator, Admiral. Gem Income = 1 Fire, 2 Air, 2 Astral. All CoTS *specific* Commanders can Sail (those listed above), allowing them to cross water provinces.

Pangaea (NE) � Loses Harpy, Reveler, Minotaur, War Minotaur, Centaur, Centaur Warrior, White Centaur, Black Harpy, Minotaur Lord, Centaur Hierophant, Maenads, Pandemoniac. Gains Minotaur Soldier, Grove Guard, Dryad Hoplite, Keeper of Tradition. Forced Scales = Order 1, Production 1.

Pangaea (CW) � Loses White Centaur, Dryad, Pan, Pandemoniac, Maenads. Gains Black Centaur, Black Dryad, Panic Apostate, Carrion Centaur, Carrion Lady, Carrion Lord. Forced Scales = Growth 2, Magic 1. Domain = Domain Automatically generates manikins. Carrion Beasts only generated in provinces with Castles. Domain kills population at a high rate.

Vanheim (Mid) � Loses Fay Boar, Valkyrie, Vanadrott, Dwarven Smith. Gains Galderman, Volva. Gem Income = 4 Air, 1 Earth.

Vanheim (Hel) � Loses Fay Boar, Modified Valkyrie (Light Weight Scale Mail), Dwarven Smith, Vanadrott. Gains Hanggadrott, Svartalf. Forced Scales = Death 1. Gem Income = 2 Air, 3 Death.

Jotunheim (Niefel) � Loses Vaetti, Wolf Rider, Chief, Vaetti Hag. Gains Niefel Giant, Niefel Jarl. Forced Scales = Cold 3. Gem Income = 2 Death, 3 Water. Domain = Domain spreads cold as the Heart of Winter theme.

Jotunheim (Ut) � Loses Vaetti, Wolf Rider, Chief, Vaetti Hag, Gygja. Gains Huskarl, Herse, Seithkona, Norna. Forced Scales = Order 1. Gem Income = 3 Astral, 1 Death, 1 Nature.

T�ien Ch�I (S&A) � Loses Imperial Archer, Crossbow, Footman, Guard, Heavy Horseman, Imperial Horsemen, Red Guard, Eunuch, General, Imperial Consort, Ceremonial Master, Minister of Rituals, Prince General, Celestial Soldier, Celestial Servant. Gains Heavy Footman, Noble, Master of the Dead, Master of the 5 Elements, Modified Celestial Master (+1 Random), Demon of Heavenly Fires, Demon of Heavenly Rivers. Forced Scales = Turmoil 1, Magic 1. Gem Income = 2 Water, 2 Astral, 1 Death, 1 Fire.

T�ien Ch�I (BK) - Loses Imperial Archer, Crossbow, Footman, Guard, Heavy Horseman, Imperial Horsemen, Red Guard, Eunuch, Imperial Consort, Minister of Rituals, Prince General, Celestial Servant. Gains Heavy Footman, Barbarian Horsemen, Master of the Dead, Khan. Forced Scales = Turmoil 2. Gem Income = 2 Air, 2 Astral, 1 Death.

[ January 27, 2004, 08:31: Message edited by: Zen ]

Gothmog

January 27th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Zen:
Alright, each of these *snip* WOW AMAZING job, Zen! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif This'll be perfect! I'll try and get the NQR RC1 out today...

Kristoffer O

January 27th, 2004, 05:21 PM

BF Ulm do not have the same morningstar HI as default. The new one has a plate cuirass instead of full chain/plate.

Commander of Ulm is not supposed to have a pike. It's a bug and his weapon will be replaced in the next patch.

[ January 27, 2004, 15:24: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]

Gandalf Parker

January 27th, 2004, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
BF Ulm do not have the same morningstar HI as default. The new one has a plate cuirass instead of full chain/plate.

Commander of Ulm is not supposed to have a pike. It's a bug and his weapon will be replaced in the next patch. WOW with such a long list those were the only things he missed. Good job Zen! And thanks Kristoffer for checking it.

[ January 27, 2004, 15:50: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Gothmog

January 27th, 2004, 07:02 PM

Okay, presenting without further ado:

Dominions II Newbie Reference Guide RC1 (http://members.cox.net/nelsons/Dominions2_quick_reference_RC1.pdf)

It's on an 8 1/2" by 15" (legal) page.

I'm not exactly happy about the formatting. The disparity of the base race descriptions vs the theme difference summaries grate on my aesthetics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I'd like to spruce the right side of the page up a litte. Any ideas?

Please give me your feedback!

Zen - I removed the forced scale & gem income changes from your post. I don't think that it is nesessary for a newbie to know. I like the idea of displaying gem income, however-
Saber Cherry, could I impose on you to make some icons of the different gems? I'd like to incorporate a 'gem income' column in the AQR.

Regarding the AQR, I've been wrestling with ideas of how best to format it. I'm afraid that because of the staggering amount of information I'd like it to contain, I'm going to have to discard the idea of fitting it all on one or even two pages. That being said, I'd like to discuss how, formatting wise do you all think would be the most ideal? I'm going to try and draft up all the columns per race I think the AQR will need in a post later today.

[ January 27, 2004, 17:05: Message edited by: Gothmog ]

Saber Cherry

January 27th, 2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Gothmog:

Saber Cherry, could I impose on you to make some icons of the different gems? I'd like to incorporate a 'gem income' column in the AQR.
Yeah, I could probaby do that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

PhilD

January 27th, 2004, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Gothmog:
Okay, presenting without further ado:

Dominions II Newbie Reference Guide RC1 (http://members.cox.net/nelsons/Dominions2_quick_reference_RC1.pdf)

It's on an 8 1/2" by 15" (legal) page.
Nice enough...

I was about to complain about printing on A4 paper, but seeing how much color there's here, it would look lousy on my B&W printer anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Kjeld

January 28th, 2004, 12:10 AM

Nice work !!!

It may seem like nitpicking but I believe it would be appropriate to add comments like this :

For Ulm/BF and Ulm/Iron Faith : "Lose drain immunity"

For Pangea New Era (the list don't do this theme justice, imho, it's pretty much what the special dominion is about) : "New era basic troops have better and cheaper equipment than their base Pangaea counterparts but their mage and priestly troops are weaker" (not sure if you want to elaborate : the dryad lose 1 holy level, the pan lose on earth level)

Also I don't think it is worth mentioning in the document, but iirc Spring and Autumn Celestial masters gain the flying ability.

January 28th, 2004, 12:23 AM

I didn't include some, because I don't know how much information that was wanted, I can adjust it. Yes, but New Era is correct, but I personally don't think the theme is all that hot so I feel justice has been 'served' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Celestial Masters gain 3 Movement, Flying, if that's what you want to include.

Ulm is not immune to the Drain Scale, only the Master Smith is. So it would be inappropriate to say that they 'lose the immunity to drain scale' as they were never immune, just the Smith was http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ulm also has a 25% Castle Production Bonus, if you want to include that in the 'base' notation.

Gothmog, do you want a general rundown of costs? Or not? I know you didn't include the Forced Scales, but I feel that is an important aspect, maybe you could put it under the Nation flag? As you are required to take at least those scales, in order to chose the theme, and it has an impact on your design.

[ January 27, 2004, 22:23: Message edited by: Zen ]

Gothmog

January 28th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Zen:
Gothmog, do you want a general rundown of costs? Or not? I know you didn't include the Forced Scales, but I feel that is an important aspect, maybe you could put it under the Nation flag? As you are required to take at least those scales, in order to chose the theme, and it has an impact on your design. Actually, I think Forced Scales would be a perfect column to include in the AQR, not to mention Gem income.... you know, now that I think about it, Forced Scales is pretty important to the race creation process. I think I'll add it back in.

liga

February 6th, 2004, 11:57 AM

Great job .. I really like it ... the only question is ... way you don't make this post sticky so I don't need to run across hundred post to find it again after a week of 'vacation' from the forum ?

Coffeedragon

February 6th, 2004, 10:32 PM

Just want to say this is a great planning tool for those not having the time to memorize everything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks alot.

liga

June 15th, 2004, 01:55 AM

Hi Gothmog,

why not a new update Version of your beautiful Quick Reference Guide ?

Liga

Ighalli

June 15th, 2004, 02:10 AM

Thanks for doing all this work! This sheet is extremely useful! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Arryn

June 15th, 2004, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by liga:
Great job .. I really like it ... the only question is ... way you don't make this post sticky so I don't need to run across hundred post to find it again after a week of 'vacation' from the forum ? I've added this nice file to those downloadable from my site so that people will have an easier time finding it (and giving Gothmog's work some more exposure).

Gandalf Parker

June 15th, 2004, 02:49 AM

We need to avoid making Posts sticky.
But it should be in one of the Posts that are already stuck. If its not then let us know