the banners

[General Tacticus]

1. Banner of the Northern Star raises the astral of all your mages present on the battlefield, IIRC.

2. Those banners work like a "Sermon of Courage" : it helps counteract the moral loss the troops may take. It's an effect centered on the holder. If you click on the banner you will see its "range". I have seen banners between +6 and +15. I don't know, however, if this is a radius, of if it means it affects a total of 6 to 15 squares.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by General Tacticus:
2. Those banners work like a "Sermon of Courage" : it helps counteract the moral loss the troops may take. It's an effect centered on the holder. If you click on the banner you will see its "range". I have seen banners between +6 and +15. I don't know, however, if this is a radius, of if it means it affects a total of 6 to 15 squares.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wonder if we can get IW to explain what, exactly, the effect is (both morale boost amount and range/radius, plus whether it only works to counter morale loss).

[Kristoffer O]

Standard = AEO. All units in area regains some of their lost morale each turn.

[tinkthank]

Two quick questions:

1. I think it is called the astral banner, a forgable item which reduces the holder's magic resistance but increases the astral power of nearby friendly astral mages. Does anybody know what "nearby" means -- I dont see the powers of astral mages in the same province rise. Or is it only on the battlefield? And if so, how many squares? Any specific info on this item?

2. The banner that the Bard has (and a few other commanders) is supposed to raise moral of "nearby" troops -- how near is this? I dont see any moral bonuses either when I click on those units.

[Teraswaerto]

I'm pretty sure that the Banner of the Northern Star (or something like that) raises the astral skill of every friendly mage on the battlefield.

[diamondspider]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
Two quick questions:

1. I think it is called the astral banner, a forgable item which reduces the holder's magic resistance but increases the astral power of nearby friendly astral mages. Does anybody know what "nearby" means -- I dont see the powers of astral mages in the same province rise. Or is it only on the battlefield? And if so, how many squares? Any specific info on this item?

2. The banner that the Bard has (and a few other commanders) is supposed to raise moral of "nearby" troops -- how near is this? I dont see any moral bonuses either when I click on those units. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. It is battlefield only unless it says RITUAL at the top of the spell description. Also, nearby, I think either means in the same square of the grid or, perhaps, adjacent squares.

2. Banners effect units near them but I don't believe there is any visible change regarding this EXCEPT that your morale will stay slightly higher then it would without the banner nearby.

[ January 29, 2004, 13:06: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

[onomastikon]

Does anyone know how this area is determined? (e.g. +6 = ??)

Also, does anyone know how we can see the effects of such banners and the aforementioned Banner of the North Star? I dont see the little number next to the "astral icon" under my mages increase when I click on them during a battle. Is this intentional?

(It would be GREAT if most of the effects that spells and items have would be more transparent since exact descriptions of their function are often missing, e.g. consider the Amon Hotep item, or the Ark)

[aldin]

Originally posted by onomastikon:
(It would be GREAT if most of the effects that spells and items have would be more transparent since exact descriptions of their function are often missing, e.g. consider the Amon Hotep item, or the Ark) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Zen put together a great magic items list. Try searching him & magic items

~Aldin

[Arryn]

Originally posted by aldin:
Zen put together a great magic items list. Try searching him & magic items<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you read Zen's PDF file you'll quickly realize that the question as to whether +6 on a morale banner is a radius or a diameter is still valid, and as yet unanswered.

[aldin]

Arryn,

I've read Zen's PDF and understand the question is still valid. If you look at what I quoted you'll see I was responding to his request for additional information.

~Aldin

[Arryn]

Originally posted by aldin:
I've read Zen's PDF and understand the question is still valid. If you look at what I quoted you'll see I was responding to his request for additional information.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry. I see now.

I looked at what you quoted of his post and took it in the context of the thread topic. Had I read his full posting I'd've seen his request for how other items worked.

I'm still a bit puzzled that this thread has gone on as long as it has without any of us getting the question of what +X exactly means answered with regards to morale banners.

Once again I apologize. I didn't mean to jump on you.

Well I've been futily searching for the exact numbers in threads and I'm unable to find it. I don't know if standards AOE are exactly like fear AOE (where most of my tests are). Seems like we'll just have to wait for Johan or Kristoffer to speak up.

Though I sincerely doubt it's radius.

[HJ]

Originally posted by onomastikon:
Does anyone know how this area is determined? (e.g. +6 = ??)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=74;t=000214#000009

[Arryn]

Thanks, HJ, for posting that link and getting our question answered!

A banner 6 would look more than likely like this


xx
ox
xx

Where the o = the standard bearer, the x's his radius of influence. I don't know if it leans more forward or backward with banners (Fear is forward), but it would stand to reason that it leans more forward, though I don't know how far 'wide' a banner goes.

I believe Firbolgs have Standard +20 so that would be a good one to test.

[HJ]

Originally posted by Zen:
A banner 6 would look more than likely like this


xx
ox
xx

Where the o = the standard bearer, the x's his radius of influence. I don't know if it leans more forward or backward with banners (Fear is forward), but it would stand to reason that it leans more forward, though I don't know how far 'wide' a banner goes.

I believe Firbolgs have Standard +20 so that would be a good one to test. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why do you say it leans forward? The devs only said it spreads erraticaly, like spells do. The same thing goes for fear, IIRC.

I'd say it leans forward because I've had standards in the back (I like to put them on Guard Commander around a Commander who was set to Stay behind Troops) and not have the units break without using Sermon of Courage and taking significant losses. It could be that they don't lean forward but lean wherever they want, but I can't say for sure.

Edit: For Fear I use Fear alot and I often (read: Most of the time) have enemies break before they can close in on the fear producing unit by a cast of a spell or something similiar that might cause a 'morale' check but wouldn't rout an army normally without the fear in place.

Good ones to test this with are dragons, Medusa and others with Cause Fear as their base ability, then pump some Death into them to increase it's AOE where you want to test, and cast a spell like Flying Shards, of Fire Darts or something and 'gauge' it.

Like I said it may do some sort of Triangle, or Diamond shaped AOE around the center, but I've found it mostly goes forward in what I can really test without looking at the dev formula.

[ January 31, 2004, 02:47: Message edited by: Zen ]

[onomastikon]

Originally posted by aldin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by onomastikon:
(It would be GREAT if most of the effects that spells and items have would be more transparent since exact descriptions of their function are often missing, e.g. consider the Amon Hotep item, or the Ark) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Zen put together a great magic items list. Try searching him & magic items

~Aldin </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well thanks for all that help.
Zen's link is here by the way for others who also may want it:

Zen's Link (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/MIpdfv2.4.pdf)