Congrats in order to Illwinter & Shrapnel: [Archive]

LordArioch

February 7th, 2004, 12:33 AM

I'd say it should have been number 1, but at least some reviewers understand its value enough to rate it third. People these days are more interested in stealing cars and shooting people. I can't judge KOTOR, but if any other game of GTA is a good basis, GTA:VC has about five minutes at most of play value before you realize stealing cars and running around gets boring really really fast.

johan osterman

February 7th, 2004, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by LordArioch:
...
People these days are more interested in stealing cars and shooting people. ...Unlike you and me who are more interested in wholesome activities such as genocidal warfare and sacrificing innocent young girls.

[ February 06, 2004, 22:39: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Arryn

February 7th, 2004, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by LordArioch:
I can't judge KOTORHaving finished 3 games of KotOR, I can say without bias that KotOR is deserving of the Game of the Year award it's been getting from various magazines. Knights is a more polished game (translated: prettier, well-documented, and with very few bugs) and in a genre with much broader appeal than TBS games like Dom. Call of Duty, a FPS, has been a runner-up for the title, and is also pretty, well-documented, and nearly bug-free. But one must consider that each of these games has a huge organization with a huge budget behind it. That KotOR or CoD is rating higher does not, in any way, detract from the kudos that Dom 2 and IW are also deserving, for having put out a truly remarkable, sophisticated strategy game with very deep and rich gameplay.

One just has to consider that even if Dom was as fancy as Knights or Call or any of the other popular games, and bug-free, and had a huge (expensive) manual, and anything else that people may feel is lacking, then Dom would still not be popular simply because it's in a niche genre.

Consider that I own Knights (~1 week to finish a game), Call of Duty (~3 days to finish), Deus Ex 2 (~14 hours by savegame timestamps to finish), and quite a few other titles. The game I've been playing for over a month now is Dom ...

mcv

February 7th, 2004, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LordArioch:
I can't judge KOTOROne just has to consider that even if Dom was as fancy as Knights or Call or any of the other popular games, and bug-free, and had a huge (expensive) manual, and anything else that people may feel is lacking, then Dom would still not be popular simply because it's in a niche genre.
<hr /></blockquote>I'm not so sure. Civilization was pretty big. Ofcourse Civ was pretty much the first of its kind, and simple enough to be played by anyone. Dom2 is probably a bit deeper in the same niche (though not quite as deep as stars!, I think).

mcv.

PhilD

February 7th, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by johan osterman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LordArioch:
...
People these days are more interested in stealing cars and shooting people. ...Unlike you and me who are more interested in wholesome activities such as genocidal warfare and sacrificing innocent young girls. <hr /></blockquote>Virgins. They have to be virgins. Young doesn't count, and "innocent" is way too vague.

Oh, and you forgot the religious nut thing. It's not just free genocide; it's a religion-based thing.

Ed Kolis

February 7th, 2004, 08:21 PM

So who wants to bet on which game will get Banned first when John Kerry or some other Democrat gets elected president of the United States...

-Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (carjacking, brutal murder)
-Counterstrike (half the players are fekking TERRORISTS)
-Dominions 2 (sacrifice of virgins; holy war)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Arryn

February 7th, 2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
So who wants to bet on which game will get Banned first when John Kerry or some other Democrat gets elected president of the United States...I'd like to remind you that it's fascist Republicans like Bush's pet John Ashcroft who are fond of censorship and invasion of privacy. Patriot Act, anyone? Democrats traditionally are for "liberal" ideas such as freedom of choice and freedom of speech. Republicans favor imposing minority moral standards on the rest of us.

BTW, go read Orwell's 1984 again, and then take a good look at America post 9/11.

Lord Hammer

February 7th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by johan osterman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LordArioch:
...
People these days are more interested in stealing cars and shooting people. ...Unlike you and me who are more interested in wholesome activities such as genocidal warfare and sacrificing innocent young girls. <hr /></blockquote>Amen brother! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Psitticine

February 7th, 2004, 10:44 PM

Congrats! Just shows that dedication and respect for the audience can match any kind of huge budget. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

WTG, Illwinter and Shrapnel!!!

moodgiesanta

February 9th, 2004, 01:42 AM

I can't argue against them putting those two games ahead of Dominion, considering how good they were and how they appeal to many more people. But it is very nice to see this game get its due props.

ywl

February 9th, 2004, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
So who wants to bet on which game will get Banned first when John Kerry or some other Democrat gets elected president of the United States...

-Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (carjacking, brutal murder)
-Counterstrike (half the players are fekking TERRORISTS)
-Dominions 2 (sacrifice of virgins; holy war)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Let's guess which game will be endorsed if Bush got elected. Heck! Let's guess which game they're playing right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 09, 2004, 05:25: Message edited by: ywl ]

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by ywl:
Let's guess which game will be endorsed if Bush got elected. Heck! Let's guess which game they're playing right nowProbably Command & Conquer. It's most obviously not something like Sim City, which requires an understanding of economics and social responsibility. And most certainly not Civilization, which entails at least a modicum of diplomacy, nevermind significant amounts of anticorruption and environmental cleanup. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Saber Cherry

February 9th, 2004, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by ywl:
Let's guess which game will be endorsed if Bush got elected. Heck! Let's guess which game they're playing right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I hope he's just playing "Conquest: Middle East" rather than "Conquest: Earth". But you never know... fortunately, it doesn't look like he'll make it past "Stage 2: Iraqi Sands".

Edit: On the other hand, let's all hope it's not "Total Annihilation".

[ February 09, 2004, 07:14: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

PDF

February 9th, 2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ywl:
Let's guess which game will be endorsed if Bush got elected. Heck! Let's guess which game they're playing right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I hope he's just playing "Conquest: Middle East" rather than "Conquest: Earth". But you never know... fortunately, it doesn't look like he'll make it past "Stage 2: Iraqi Sands".

Edit: On the other hand, let's all hope it's not "Total Annihilation". <hr /></blockquote>Nope, he's still trying to figure how to win Pong ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by PDF:
Nope, he's still trying to figure how to win Pong ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif On further thought, I doubt it. He's much more likely to have never even seen it, having been weaned on Monopoly, and later, Risk.

LordArioch

February 9th, 2004, 05:14 PM

When I said people today were interested in stealing cars and shooting people, I never meant to imply my interests were more ethical. I just meant to show how young people today set such low expectations for themselves.
Anybody with a gun can shoot people and steal cars, but genocidal holy war and human sacrifice are only practiced by the foremost madmen. I have high hopes for myself in the future, as I plan to become leader of a xenophobic nation devoted to world conquest. No minor street crimes for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

ywl

February 9th, 2004, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by LordArioch:
When I said people today were interested in stealing cars and shooting people, I never meant to imply my interests were more ethical. I just meant to show how young people today set such low expectations for themselves.
Anybody with a gun can shoot people and steal cars, but genocidal holy war and human sacrifice are only practiced by the foremost madmen. I have high hopes for myself in the future, as I plan to become leader of a xenophobic nation devoted to world conquest. No minor street crimes for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I hate to see my Bush question has elicited so many off-topic answers. But well, I was not the one who started it.

Now back to LordArioch. Just for argument sake - but you can still say that GTA is a simulation of violence while the abstractization of war and violence in Dominions is so remote that it's more like solving a puzzle (comparable chess). You can also argue that the gameplay GTA (though I've *never* played it myself) cater to satisfying violent emotions while Dominions is more a cerebral game. It's perfectly understandable even if you felt uneasy that people like GTA.

Of course, you can also argue that Dominions' way of trivialize war casualties nothing more than statistics is way worse...

But let's don't get too serious or we won't be able to play or even do anything.

vanedor

February 9th, 2004, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
[QUOTE]One just has to consider that even if Dom was as fancy as Knights or Call or any of the other popular games, and bug-free, and had a huge (expensive) manual, and anything else that people may feel is lacking, then Dom would still not be popular simply because it's in a niche genre. I disagree. I think a game like Dom 2 has enough potential to become very popular. Games like SimCity, Civilization, Age of Wonders... are all fairly complicated and popular. It's not as if this game was a hex based hardcore wargame.

Dom 2 got potential, a lot. I only wish the crew behind it could invest more time on it and hire a few more people to handle wa they can't do themselves. For this to become reality, Dom2 needs to get good sales(which, with all the publicities it received, it would not surprise me at all). More importantly, it requires that the developpers wish it to.

"Edit: On the other hand, let's all hope it's not "Total Annihilation". "

Indeed.And let's all hope, for world security sake, that the americans don't pick him(I would say 'again' but during the Last election, more american voted for Al Gore).

LordArioch

February 9th, 2004, 07:35 PM

I doubt Bush is playing total annihilation, as he doesn't have enough taste. I think he's faking us out by pretending to play starcraft (Mars anyone?)
He's really playing counterstrike and the warcraft IV alpha.
Let's just hope he's at least playing counterterrorists and not terrorists. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

licker

February 9th, 2004, 08:24 PM

HEH!

I hope Bush is playing Postal or RedNeck Rampage with the idea of actually taking it to all those whiny, underachieving, lost in the woods Demorats who would rather drown the US in the sex blood and violence of hollywood then stand up for something, ANYTHING!!!

LOL at anyone who actually thinks Demos are interested in protecting free speech, they're only interested in protecting their own speech, no different than the Republicans... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Well someone had to stand up for the GOP, pity its a Libertarian like me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

ywl

February 9th, 2004, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by licker:
HEH!

I hope Bush is playing Postal or RedNeck Rampage with the idea of actually taking it to all those whiny, underachieving, lost in the woods Demorats who would rather drown the US in the sex blood and violence of hollywood then stand up for something, ANYTHING!!!

LOL at anyone who actually thinks Demos are interested in protecting free speech, they're only interested in protecting their own speech, no different than the Republicans... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Well someone had to stand up for the GOP, pity its a Libertarian like me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Seriously, I guess people are more against Bush than against GOP in general http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Afterall, we own much of our deficit deduction and balance budget ideas from the conservatives.

moodgiesanta

February 10th, 2004, 07:23 AM

People, people, Bush is playing Barbie goes Shopping for the Game Boy Advance.

Dominions has some pretty heavy themes, but you're not put in an everyday situation by playing the game. I'm not about to become a centimeter high tga graphic that has control over thousands of people and can cast spells. I am likely to be in a dangerous city at one time. I'm familiar with cities. In GTA3, I shoot people and they bleed. I see all of this, and it is very visceral. Whether this is a healthy outlet of violent urges or an injection of unhealthy ideas into the subconsious is up for argument. But Dominions doesn't appeal to the carnal. It appeals to the strategic mind. Surely, a lot of the issues dealt with are fairly heavy-duty, and it could be very discouraging for many people I know to kill hundreds of virgin girls in order to summon demons from Hell, or that having a fellow enslave population actually counts as a *good* event. But these are dealt with at a conscious level. We know that we aren't going to kill virgins and enslave our neighbors. A game like Grand Theft Auto 3 plays to our subconcious. We don't deal with it on an entirely conscious level. We, in our in-game avatar, take part in the killing of hookers. Whether this is a beneficial, benign or malignant thing, I do not know. But I do know that a game such as Dominion does not provide that questionable input.

My three cents.