Why would Illithid mind bLasts affect my Carrion Lords?

[Ascendent]

My Carrion Lords are undead so wouldnt they be exempt from being mindbLasted to all hell? Just lost a fight against 1 illithid and 9 illithid soldiers against my 80 Mandragora and 1 Carrion Lord. Just wondering if I'm off base here. Prior to this I lost my Ettin Mandragora hero the same way...and he was undead as well. Just curious what everyone's thoughts on this would be.

Ascendent

[Arralen]

They are undead, but not mindless.
There's no dependency between those two.
Vinemen e.g. are mindless, but not undead, as are non-commander golems, statues etc.

[SurvivalistMerc]

It is always refreshing to see these replies by the devs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[PDF]

I'm not bothered with Mind BLast affecting Undeads, but what always bothered me is that they get afflictions : how come a skeleton with only eyesocks could "lose an eye" or be weakened by a "chest wound" ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ February 20, 2004, 15:25: Message edited by: PDF ]

[SurvivalistMerc]

PDF,

I think some of the more powerful undead have to be able to get afflictions to make them balanced. Such as prince of death. And probably the carrion dragon.

What bothers me is a new proposal by some players not to allow undead to be healed of hps or afflictions.

[PDF]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
PDF,

I think some of the more powerful undead have to be able to get afflictions to make them balanced. Such as prince of death. And probably the carrion dragon.

What bothers me is a new proposal by some players not to allow undead to be healed of hps or afflictions. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh, I was one (or even the first) to propose that ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
A Faery Queen healing a Wight or Vampire doesn't feel very "realistic" ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
So it makes sense, and powerful undeads (and Pretenders in particular) can "unlive" without healing ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Besides, it is not the brain that controls the body, its the soul. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think the soul controls the brain which controls the body.

[fahdiz]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
I think the soul controls the brain which controls the body. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...but let's not drag this informative thread off topic, please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[atul]

Originally posted by PDF:
I'm not bothered with Mind BLast affecting Undeads, but what always bothered me is that they get afflictions : how come a skeleton with only eyesocks could "lose an eye" or be weakened by a "chest wound" ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, if I'd have to guess... maybe the function of organs in dead have some resemblance to their former functions when living. Like the eyesocket has the essence of eye, enabling undead to see until the socket as a whole is smashed? Chest, where the heart used to be, is a conduit of energy that keeps the undead moving (alike 'vitae' in WoD vampires) and smashing the ribcage hinders that flow? A bit, what is it called, homeopathic feel in that explanation, tho...

Of course, I'm majoring in advanced energy systems, so necromancy isn't one of my strong points. Wrong game to discuss fusion and such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by atul:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by PDF:
I'm not bothered with Mind BLast affecting Undeads, but what always bothered me is that they get afflictions : how come a skeleton with only eyesocks could "lose an eye" or be weakened by a "chest wound" ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, if I'd have to guess... maybe the function of organs in dead have some resemblance to their former functions when living. Like the eyesocket has the essence of eye, enabling undead to see until the socket as a whole is smashed? Chest, where the heart used to be, is a conduit of energy that keeps the undead moving (alike 'vitae' in WoD vampires) and smashing the ribcage hinders that flow? A bit, what is it called, homeopathic feel in that explanation, tho...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Those which are mindless are completely controlled by magic therefor do not need magical organs. Ghouls, on the other hand, are not completely controlled by magic.

[Ascendent]

I don't have a problem with affliction..well mostly because all my CW units regen. But my Dragora Ettin hereo once lost and I quote "A couple of eyes" next round he grew them back but I thought it was odd that he managed to lose a couple instead of the traditional 1 or 2 maybe its because he has two heads. *shrugs*


Ascendent

[fahdiz]

Originally posted by Ascendent:
I don't have a problem with affliction..well mostly because all my CW units regen. But my Dragora Ettin hereo once lost and I quote "A couple of eyes" next round he grew them back but I thought it was odd that he managed to lose a couple instead of the traditional 1 or 2 maybe its because he has two heads. *shrugs*<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I had a similarly funny message Last night regarding my Nataraja pretender...he waded into battle and after the dust settled, I was sad to find that he had three afflictions. One was "Lost one eye" and another was "And lost the other one as well". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Ack.

[aldin]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
I don't know what CW has that can soak up mind bLasts, if its normal mandragoras/carrion beasts are mindless. Summon Animals or Horned Serpents might work, or you might have to resort to making living troops. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">CW's base unit is a 10/3, cheap enough for mind fodder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~Aldin

[PvK]

Originally posted by Ascendent:
I don't have a problem with affliction..well mostly because all my CW units regen. But my Dragora Ettin hereo once lost and I quote "A couple of eyes" next round he grew them back but I thought it was odd that he managed to lose a couple instead of the traditional 1 or 2 maybe its because he has two heads. *shrugs*


Ascendent <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But this makes perfect sense. Two heads means four eyes. Units have a stat for "number of eyes".

PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by fahdiz:
I had a similarly funny message Last night regarding my Nataraja pretender...he waded into battle and after the dust settled, I was sad to find that he had three afflictions. One was "Lost one eye" and another was "And lost the other one as well". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Ack. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This happened to a recurring villain in my first-ever game playing the Dominions I demo. There was an enemy horse archer commander who kept leading armies against my forces, and I couldn't finish him off since he would stay at a distance and fire arrows, and then run away if/when I managed to beat his army. However our archers did manage to take out one eye, and then his other eye, but he'd still show up leading armies against my forces, but now firing arrows in random directions since he couldn't see anything!

This was one of the things that convinced me early on that Dominions was a classic and wonderful game. He's one of the most memorable and amusing characters I've encountered in a computer game, and he was auto-generated by the detailed game engine and the events of play!

PvK

[Taqwus]

Heh. And almost every affliction has an attack form which specifically causes it -- certain weapons and shields blind people, there's an axe which causes chest wounds, two artifacts which cut off arms, one artifact which cripples, a bow that feebleminds... plus numerous spells that do so as well.
I don't know of any that specifically cause mute, battle fright or decapitation (!), but the amount of maiming in a game can be quite amazing...

[fahdiz]

Originally posted by PvK:
This was one of the things that convinced me early on that Dominions was a classic and wonderful game. He's one of the most memorable and amusing characters I've encountered in a computer game, and he was auto-generated by the detailed game engine and the events of play!<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, it's all the little things (the thousands and thousands of little things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) that make this game such a joy to play. Every time I fire it up, I find something new. I love that, and I haven't really seen that in a game for several years now.

[Chris Byler]

Undead are not immune to mind bLasts. Only mindless beings are immune to mind bLasts. A lot of weaker undead are mindless, but stronger undead (Lictor, Wailing Lady, Wight) and undead commanders/mages are not.

I don't know what CW has that can soak up mind bLasts, if its normal mandragoras/carrion beasts are mindless. Summon Animals or Horned Serpents might work, or you might have to resort to making living troops.

[Ascendent]

I agree that the commanders aren't mindless but I disagree that they would be effected by mindbLasts. As undead beings their minds wouldn't work the same as a living creature they would be more magical in nature. There is no organic brain or whatever regulating body functions so if there isn't a brain controlling their bodies and actions why would it be affected by a stun that stops the brain from sending out impulses? Hell their brains probably rotted away. Now if this less a brain/mind stun and more like a telekinetic power that holds a being there then I could see it working on a being regardless. Just my 2 cents.

Ascendent

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Ascendent:
I agree that the commanders aren't mindless but I disagree that they would be effected by mindbLasts. As undead beings their minds wouldn't work the same as a living creature they would be more magical in nature. There is no organic brain or whatever regulating body functions so if there isn't a brain controlling their bodies and actions why would it be affected by a stun that stops the brain from sending out impulses? Hell their brains probably rotted away. Now if this less a brain/mind stun and more like a telekinetic power that holds a being there then I could see it working on a being regardless. Just my 2 cents.

Ascendent <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Undead minds work exactly the same as living minds, trust me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . They are however more magical. This is represented by a higher magic resistance.
Besides, it is not the brain that controls the body, its the soul.

[Ascendent]

*sigh* guess I'll have to trust you on it. Haven't raised any undead since High School guess I'm out of touch.


Ascendent

[Psitticine]

There are new afflictions in 2.08 as well, so non-humaniods can have their tails lopped off and so forth. Bonus maiming!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Psitticine:
There are new afflictions in 2.08 as well, so non-humaniods can have their tails lopped off and so forth. Bonus maiming!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What penalty does one suffer for a lost tail?

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
What penalty does one suffer for a lost tail? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Boys without a piece of tail suffer lonely nights ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 22, 2004, 07:17: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by PDF:
... or be weakened by a "chest wound" ?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Chest would I can understand. The skeleton gets his chest messed up which causes his arms not to function properly... but chest wounds only give you fatigue, so there's no point in having it but for decoration?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
What penalty does one suffer for a lost tail? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I imagine that they lose their stinger attacks.

[PDF]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Psitticine:
There are new afflictions in 2.08 as well, so non-humaniods can have their tails lopped off and so forth. Bonus maiming!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What penalty does one suffer for a lost tail? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe Action -4 due to loss of balance ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Psitticine]

Losing the tail nixs any tail-based attacks. I don't know off-hand if it has any other effects.