C'tis and Swamps [Archive] - .com.unity Forums

Argitoth

March 5th, 2004, 04:19 AM

It's not fair that there are only 0-5 swamp provinces per map.

Is anyone going to make a map to balance this?

Gandalf Parker

March 5th, 2004, 05:04 AM

Sounds like a good campaign map. Lots of swamp, extra ctis-type magic-sites scattered around, Ctis as an AI with a specially made pretender and excellent scale choices. Ctis starts with a few extra provices, maybe 3 castles, some extra commanders and troops. Trying to design it to give Ctis a major chance to actually win against humans would be quite a project.

Argitoth

March 5th, 2004, 06:12 AM

naaa, these days I only play multiplayer networked games without AI. I use AI for target practice, but seriously...

Swamp survival is a useless skill. there's a 90% chance you will never be stanting in a swamp and a 99% chance that the province is useless. Swamps have low income and low resources and little population not to mention no bonus on magic sites.

[ March 05, 2004, 04:16: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

PvK

March 5th, 2004, 06:23 AM

Does swamp survival obviate the need for supplies? If you have an army of 100 swamp-survivors in a swamp with 11 supplies, how many of them get hungry?

If they could survive in the swamp without getting hungry, then it could be used to military advantage.

PvK

Argitoth

March 5th, 2004, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by PvK:
Does swamp survival obviate the need for supplies? If you have an army of 100 swamp-survivors in a swamp with 11 supplies, how many of them get hungry?

If they could survive in the swamp without getting hungry, then it could be used to military advantage.

PvK yes, that's the idea.

But you know, I was thinking certain nations should get income bonuses with certain land-types for instance:

Jotunheim: Mountains
Pangaea: Forests
C'tis: Swamps
Abysia: Wastelands

and here's some more ideas. There should be a nation-specific dragon for each nation.

Pythium: Prismatic Dragon (Astral + Awe)
Ermor: Bone Dragon (Death + Bonus Fear)
Caelum: White Dragon (Air)
Ulm: Bronze Dragon (Earth/Fire(?))
T'ien Ch'i: Gold Dragon (Nature/Fire + Awe Bonus(?))

---------

Atlantis: Blue Dragon (Water) [exists]
C'tis: Green Dragon (Nature) [exists]
Pangaea: Carrion Dragon (Nature/Death) [exists]
Abysia: Red Dragon (Fire) [exists]

Maybe a slight change for those lacking draconic characters?

Atlantis: Dragon Turtle (Or AKA those really big turtles usually as big as an island, but in this case, just really big)

Machaka: Giant Spider (Fear, Nature/Fire/Death(?))

C'tis: Giant Serpent or Lizard (Nature/Death + Reptillian(?))

Man: Hell, I have no ideas...
Marignon: What? No clue...
R'lyeh: They already got one
Arcoscephale: Huh... no ideas.
Vanheim: Nadda
Jotunheim: Nope
Mictlan: I'm thinking maybe some type of blood dragon? Bonus fear, blood magic...??

[ March 05, 2004, 05:49: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Norfleet

March 5th, 2004, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Swamp survival is a useless skill. there's a 90% chance you will never be stanting in a swamp and a 99% chance that the province is useless. Swamps have low income and low resources and little population not to mention no bonus on magic sites. Actually, the swamp survival WOULD Be useful if the province was useless. A useful province requires no survival skill to survive in, because it will surely contain, or neighbor, a fort. Survival comes into play when the province sucks, and has no supply, so your troops start starving: The survivalists are the Last to go.

However, in truth, the terrain type of the province in Dominions II doesn't really figure into the game as prominently as you might expect. The only real noteworthy effects are modifiers to strategic move and income. Swamp survival has nothing to do with either. It'd be nice if Swamp Survival negated the negative diseasing effects of Miasmatic dominion, which *IS* powerful, especially since it will disease your own green dragon, who's supposed to LIKE swamps.

General Tacticus

March 5th, 2004, 10:37 AM

To make swamp survival useful, you need a region full of swamps, not only one swamp here or there : those are easily crossed or avoided. Then you need to make sure there is something worth it inside, or people will just stay clear and do their fighting elsewhere...

I think all survivals should be made more powerful, actually : as it is they never factor in my decisions to hire a particular troop. If troops with swamp survival did not need supply at all in swamp, for example, then they would be worth looking for...

Pocus

March 5th, 2004, 12:51 PM

how works exactly the rule for xxx survival? Its not written anywhere, and nobody seems to know the detail of it.

Arryn

March 5th, 2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by General Tacticus:
I think all survivals should be made more powerful, actually : as it is they never factor in my decisions to hire a particular troop. If troops with swamp survival did not need supply at all in swamp, for example, then they would be worth looking for... Presently, the main advantage of survival is that units with strategic move 2+ do not come to a halt when passing through such terrain. Normal units without, for example, mountain survival must stop in the mountain province, while the survivalists can go right on through to the other side (assuming they have enough movement). Ditto for forest type.

Of course, what most people prefer to do is bypass the issue completely by using flyers ...

Leif_-

March 5th, 2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Argitoth:

Man: Hell, I have no ideas...
Marignon: What? No clue...
R'lyeh: They already got one
Arcoscephale: Huh... no ideas.
Vanheim: Nadda
Jotunheim: Nope
Mictlan: I'm thinking maybe some type of blood dragon? Bonus fear, blood magic...?? Since Man is grounded in Arthurian legend and mythos, the national dragon should be red.

Vanheim would have a linnorm or great serpent (re the story of Sigurd F�vnesbane)

Mictlan would have a Quaxcatl or feathered dragon.

Jotunheim could have the World Serpent (Midgardsormen)

Argitoth

March 5th, 2004, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Leif_-:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Argitoth:
Mictlan: I'm thinking maybe some type of blood dragon? Bonus fear, blood magic...?? Since Man is grounded in Arthurian legend and mythos, the national dragon should be red.

Mictlan would have a Quaxcatl or feathered dragon. <hr /></blockquote>Oh yes, I love the feathered dragon idea. We just need some artists.

[ March 05, 2004, 15:14: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Leif_-

March 5th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Leif_-:
Mictlan would have a Quaxcatl or feathered dragon.
Ack. Let me correct that. Mictlan would have a Quetzalc�atl (At least I had the two first and two Last letters correct), which is a feathered serpent and not a dragon per se. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go and tattoo "research first, post later" on my forehead.

fahdiz

March 5th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Yes, so you wouldn't even need an artist, given that the Quetzalcoatl is already one of the national heroes for Mictlan.

Argitoth

March 5th, 2004, 08:37 PM

owww

fahdiz

March 5th, 2004, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Argitoth:
owww Are you okay? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Argitoth

March 5th, 2004, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by fahdiz:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Argitoth:
owww Are you okay? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>yeah, i tried to bump the thread but got bumped myself.

Sand

March 6th, 2004, 02:22 AM

They said it was daft to build a castle in a swamp!

Leif_-

March 6th, 2004, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Sand:
They said it was daft to build a castle in a swamp! "What? The curtains?"

AStott

March 6th, 2004, 03:22 AM

Of course, what might be really cool is if provinces that stay in the C'tis dominion long enough (with the dominion level high enough) would actually change their terrain type to swamp (only for provinces that were originally plains, farmland, or forest). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Argitoth

March 6th, 2004, 08:03 AM

Oh yeah, great idea. Then C'tis would be screwed over because of lack of income. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Endoperez

March 6th, 2004, 08:42 AM

Something like that was in Dom1: the terrain was determined by pixels (adjustable, but most times green=forest, brown=mountain etc., only one color for every terrain type, so only one brown is mountain, other browns are all plains), and dominion/ scales changed the terrain ! You could see where Abysia is, because hot lands got yellow dots in them over time...
But if you look at Dom1 maps, you understand why the system was discarded: even if it was a wonderful system the maps looked very ugly. No Karan for Dom1...

I think that changing the terrains when there is high enough dominion of spesific nations is a good idea, but before that can be done those nations need to be able to use those terrains for something. Swamps are poor both in gold and resources, and nobody lives there. The problem is, lizards want to live in swamps. So for C'tis, swamps should have higher population than for other nations! I don't believe that is possible to do...

As it is, I can't see how terrain changing could be implemeneted. I remember reading that for the IW team the loss of changing terrains is one of the things they would have liked to add to DomII but couldn't, and that they hoped to add it in DomIII. But I can't find that thread, so that might be my imagination making up things...