FoS should be cold blooded

[Argitoth]

Mod Link: ColdBloodPretenders.zip (http://www.azbanjo.com/argitoth/ColdBloodPretenders.zip) (Green Dragon, Wyrm, Father of Serpents)

Ok, Tuna made a mod to make the Father of Serpents cold blooded.

The reason for this is currently, Miasma has few very pretenders. They have the immobile/lifeless pretenders, the undead pretenders, serpent king, and the Nagas. None of these pretenders suit the theme of Miasma. Miasma requires a high level of dominion and in some cases, a pretender with nature and death. No pretender currently can achieve this cost-effectively except the Father of Serpents.

Not only is the Father of Serpents half snake, he also has a poisonous bite and is very thematic for Miasma, so why isn't he cold blooded?

[ March 16, 2004, 18:46: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[archaeolept]

oh god that's what I really hate abouty miasma - even thematic pretenders become diseased and useless.

Stupid me took a Wyrm pretender once...

ie. please mod in cold-bloodedness to the Wyrm as well

really, all the pretenders should be immune to their own dominion.

[Endoperez]

Making a poll is not a bad idea, but I think making a mod and telling others why it was done would have suited it just fine. Illwinter won't be changing anything before it is tested, and I have learned that scandinavians can refuse otherwise perfectly good idea just because others want it too... (I'm a Finn, though, so this might not be true for Swedes... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) In short, I think that the idea is good but just posting a link to a mod and checking if anyone is using it after a while would have been better than making a poll.

[Argitoth]

i made the poll because im going to use this mod for just about every game I play, and I want to see if people think it is appropriate. We could also make the wyrm cold blooded, but the wyrm is an amphibian, like a frog.

[ March 16, 2004, 18:19: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Norfleet]

I think that anything with Swamp Survival should also be made immune to miasmatic dominion's effects. After all, Miasma is turning things into swamp, so shouldn't swamp survival units be able to....survive there?

[fahdiz]

Tuna's mod seems quite appropriate to me.

[ March 16, 2004, 18:21: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

[Argitoth]

Here's the mod link: Mod Link: ColdBloodPretenders.zip (http://www.azbanjo.com/argitoth/ColdBloodPretenders.zip) (Green Dragon, Wyrm, Father of Serpents)

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I think that anything with Swamp Survival should also be made immune to miasmatic dominion's effects. After all, Miasma is turning things into swamp, so shouldn't swamp survival units be able to....survive there? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is a good idea. Units shouldn't have to be coldblooded to survive miasma, but simply have swamp survival, that way the dragon and wyrm don't have to suffer from the effects of being coldblooded.

[ March 16, 2004, 18:46: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Tuna-Fish]

Turning wyrm, or even green dragon Cold-blooded could really screw some games, so there's one mod with them and one without. FoS is safe though, 'cos no nation with neagetive temp can get it.

[Argitoth]

just a note: the zip includes 3 separate mods, one for each pretender.

[Kristoffer O]

Norfleets idea has some merits.

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Norfleets idea has some merits. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Patch 2.09 anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Kristoffer? what the.. *fails a morale check and runs away in fear*

AHHH!!

[ March 16, 2004, 20:34: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I think that anything with Swamp Survival should also be made immune to miasmatic dominion's effects. After all, Miasma is turning things into swamp, so shouldn't swamp survival units be able to....survive there? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds reasonable and avoids the Pretender specific issues. A neat solution.

[Argitoth]

Adventurer's Ring:
-Construction 6
-Level 1 Nature
-Level 2 Earth

*Swamp Survival
*Forest Survival
*Mountain Survival
*Wasteland Survival
*+3 Magic Resistance
*Gives "Haste"
*+1 map movement

give or take anything... just an idea.

[ March 16, 2004, 21:05: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Argitoth]

Everyone voted "Good Idea" except one person. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif I wonder who that one person was.

[ March 16, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Adventurer's Ring:
-Construction 6
-Level 1 Nature
-Level 2 Earth

*Swamp Survival
*Forest Survival
*Mountain Survival
*Wasteland Survival
*+3 Magic Resistance
*Gives "Haste"
*+1 map movement

give or take anything... just an idea. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">2N, 1E, I would say. And giving all the survivals would be enough, as they mainly affect the change of getting diseased when starving...
IIRC right and they also let you move through special-terrain provinces without them slowing you down adding one more movement point ABOVE that would be too good. And I don't think this should give Haste, as that is quite powerful in battle. Making a unit faster in battle would be reasonable, but it shouldn't double that amount...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Endoperez:
And I don't think this should give Haste, as that is quite powerful in battle. Making a unit faster in battle would be reasonable, but it shouldn't double that amount... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Haste increases movement speed only, which isn't that powerful. It's no different than the boots of long strides, which are construction 0, nature 1.

[fahdiz]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Norfleet:
I think that anything with Swamp Survival should also be made immune to miasmatic dominion's effects. After all, Miasma is turning things into swamp, so shouldn't swamp survival units be able to....survive there? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds reasonable and avoids the Pretender specific issues. A neat solution. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree with this, and although Tuna's mod is a good "quick fix", Norfleet's suggestion is far superior, and affects more than just the pretender's role in Miasma games.

I would love to see the "new swamp survival" in a future patch.

[tinkthank]

Yup sounds good. Improved Swamp Survival.

Not the ring though, sorry. Get rid of the MR maybe, or at least reduce it to 1.

[Yossar]

What non-C'tis units get swamp survival?

[fahdiz]

Originally posted by Yossar:
What non-C'tis units get swamp survival? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'd imagine (although I don't have the game fired up in front of me) that at least some of Pythium's Serpent Cult units get it. I could check at lunchtime.

[ March 17, 2004, 18:38: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Yossar:
What non-C'tis units get swamp survival? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Green Dragons, the Father of Serpents, and Wyrms, all highly thematic pretenders for C'tis, receive Swamp Survival.

Making Swamp Survival give immunity to Miasma would solve ALL of these problems WITHOUT having to apply the disadvantage of making them cold blooded as well.

The Horned Serpent is not cold blooded, but has Swamp Survival. It should be logically a good C'tis summonable, but lacks cold-blooded, and therefore would fall over and die in Miasma. But it has Swamp Survival!

The Divine Serpent, while not a C'tissian pretender chassis, also has swamp survival, but isn't cold-blooded.

Pythium's hydras receive swamp survival, but are also cold blooded so are unaffected even now.

Keying diseasing in Miasma to Swamp Survival would actually make the survival skill, at least for Swamps, meaningful.

[ March 18, 2004, 02:07: Message edited by: Norfleet ]