MP Game - Play The World: CANCELLED

[Norfleet]

Due to the rampant hijacking and derailing of the other thread, I'm not going to deign to respond to it and am going to let it die and sink back into the abyss where it came from.

Due to various reasons which shall not be restated, it has been decided to restart the game.

Sign-in will, once again, proceed on kludgemush.com 10629. Please call your nation here as well, as some of you may have elected not to reattend: Consider this a fresh game.

I will (still) be playing Caelum.

For the record, ONCE AGAIN, for anyone who MAY have any bizarre objections to this, I *HAVE* modified the .map file, attempting to #nostart any and all provinces with fewer than 4 neighbors which would render them particularly awful as starting positions. That is the ONLY modification. If there are any people who wish to INSPECT this, I can make the .map file itself available for downloading if somebody wishes to provide a site to put it on.

Are we clear on this point?

If there any OTHER such problems that occur which impede the start of the game, I will just cancel the game: My patience for this nonsense is rapidly reaching its end. If there are any other objections, voice them now, and do not join the game.

[ June 10, 2004, 22:29: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Reverend Zombie]

Marignon, please.

[vigabrand]

Jotunheim

Vig

[Yvelina]

I would like to have Ulm. I had them in the Last game as well. Too bad that I will probably not have Australia all to myself this time. I was so happy about it. Do we really have to kill the game - we could just keep both going in parallel, couldn't we?

[Argitoth]

I CLAIM THINE VICTORY WITH C'TIS


Edit: What is the magic site frequency? I'd love it to be 55% so I can use my "ULTIMO GREEN MIGHT" strategy

[ May 25, 2004, 00:19: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Edit: What is the magic site frequency? I'd love it to be 55% so I can use my "ULTIMO GREEN MIGHT" strategy <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's still 50. I fail to see how a change of 5% makes any difference whatsoever.

[Cohen]

Abysya

[Firebreath]

Arcosephale

[ May 25, 2004, 03:38: Message edited by: Firebreath ]

[Vynd]

I will take Pangaea again.

[Tuidjy]

Vanheim.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Due to the rampant hijacking and derailing of the other thread, I'm not going to deign to respond to it <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Damn my eyes. You surely fooled me there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Damn my eyes. You surely fooled me there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You will notice that I have, in fact, ignored the hijacked thread. Please keep your comments there and stay out of my game.

[ May 25, 2004, 04:58: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Stormbinder]

Deleted by Zen - Don't make him do it again.

[ May 26, 2004, 04:06: Message edited by: Zen ]

[WraithLord]

I will take Mictlan.

[Norfleet]

Victim list:

Caelum: Me.
Mictlan: izaqyos
Vanheim: Tuidjy
Ulm: Yvelina
C'tis: Argitoth
Arco: Firebreath
Mary: Zombie
Jot: Vigabrand
Aby: Cohen
Pan: Vynd

Well, we have 10 victims returning. Let's see we can't get some others.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Damn my eyes. You surely fooled me there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You will notice that I have, in fact, ignored the hijacked thread. Please keep your comments there and stay out of my game. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No problem. Please stay out of Zapmeister's game thread than, he made it clear that you are bared from it.

[ May 26, 2004, 07:48: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Firebreath]

Stormbinder, why don't you show everybody how much better you are than Norfleet by not doing what you accuse him of doing?

It gives off a very bad impression...

If you dislike him so much, why don't you join this game and meet him in battle? Even if somehow you don't manage to beat him, you can still frustrate his plans.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Firebreath:


If you dislike him so much, why don't you join this game and meet him in battle? Even if somehow you don't manage to beat him, you can still frustrate his plans. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've played with him several times before and I have no intention of playing with him again, if I can help it. As it was mentioned many times by many different people who played with norfleet in the past (including myself of course), norfleet's only strategy is cheesy, abusing, and requires little skills to implement, while making gameplay extremely boring for everybody involved. Especially with the settings such as in this game of his that were tailored-made to benefit this very strategy. (massive clam hoarding + uber-VQ + insane castling)


As you know I've baned Norfleet's from my future games for his cheating in our Last game. Zapmeister did the same, other people may follow. You can't be serious in suggesting that I would play in norf's game now, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Anyway, this whole mess is already a history. I said that I will not post here, and as you can see the point of my Last post, to which you replied with your question and suggestion, was to stop norfleet's and mine arguments and communications here and on the other thread. If you have any future questions to me I will be glad to answer them in privite emails. But please drop this topic here, I don't want to continue the discussion of this ugly mess on this board. I've already done what I wanted to do (making people aware of the certain facts in our Last game, so they could avoid repeating these mistakes if they choose to). To continue this discussion is counter-productive, as well as against forum's rules, as Zen's stated here and elsewhere.

[ May 26, 2004, 20:07: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[archaeolept]

sorry to add this in, but norfleet's only strategy is cheesy, abusing, and requires little skills to implement <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">. It is cheesy and abusive, but to do well it definitely requires expert skills. Otherwise, you just have some second-rate Norfleet wannabe.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by archaeolept:
sorry to add this in, but </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">norfleet's only strategy is cheesy, abusing, and requires little skills to implement <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">. It is cheesy and abusive, but to do well it definitely requires expert skills. Otherwise, you just have some second-rate Norfleet wannabe. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Also, I'm curious about Stormbinder's constant use of the word "abusive". Norfleet isn't leaving bruises on children, women, small animals. He isn't verbally abusing his PD or troops, to the best of my knowledge.

He isn't taking advantage of any "exploits" in the game. (For instance, selecting multiple units in a province and making them all into Prophets, or sending multiple units to the Death Games - which used to be possible; doing so on purpose would be abusive use of a bug / exploit.)

His tactic may be cheesy or cheap; it certainly isn't any fun to play against.

But frankly, the most abusive thing I'm seeing is Stormbinder's constant badgering of Norfleet, constant personal insults, and constant misuse of the term "abusive".

[vigabrand]

Anyone got a link where I could go read about this cheesy, "abusive", little skill using strategy? I keep hearing about it, but I don't know the real details. Just curious. Same with the VQ. As you can see, I'm sort of new around here.

Vig

[Vynd]

Can we please limit Posts in this thread to those discussing the actual "Play the World" game, and not Norfleet? Thanks.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by archaeolept:
[qb] sorry to add this in, but [QUOTE]norfleet's only strategy is cheesy, abusing, and requires little skills to implement <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">. It is cheesy and abusive, but to do well it definitely requires expert skills. Otherwise, you just have some second-rate Norfleet wannabe. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Also, I'm curious about Stormbinder's constant use of the word "abusive". <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I guess you'll have to continue to be curious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif In case you didn't get any of the earlier hints, this thread is not for the discussion of norfleet or stormbinder. I am afraid you'll have to go and preach for your hero elsewhere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 27, 2004, 23:21: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Reverend Zombie]

An on-topic question:

any ETA on when this is going to start?

[Norfleet]

As of right now, we have 10 confirmed returning victims, but Firebreath(Arco) does not appear to have uploaded yet. While we're slightly on the thin side, if there's no other interest expressed in (re)joining, we can start as soon as he's in.

[Firebreath]

Sorry for the delay...I've been waiting for things to start for so long that I forgot to check http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'm going away this evening for 2 days, so it's probably best that you start without me.

[Norfleet]

That's okay, we can wait two days. Gives us more time to possibly get more victims. 9 is a little too thin for the World map.

[Firebreath]

That's up to you, though I'll be away next week as well (for about 4 days...)

So if you want to wait, that's nice. If not, that's fine too.

[Vynd]

I suspect that Firebreath is just one of many people in this game who are away or busy over the U.S. holiday weekend.

[Norfleet]

Victim list:

Caelum: Me.
Mictlan: izaqyos
Vanheim: Tuidjy
Ulm: Yvelina
C'tis: Argitoth
Arco: (Firebreath)
Mary: Zombie
Jot: Vigabrand
Aby: Cohen
Pan: Vynd
R'lyeh: Xodan (DomX)

Well, we have about 10 or 11 people. This is slightly on the thin side for the World Map.

Depending on whether Firebreath would like to join, and perhaps find somebody to fill in for him while he's away, or abstain, we can maybe start Real Soon Now(tm). Is everyone ready for the gruelfest that this slightly underpopulated map is going to produce? Or shall we hold for more victims and hope that our existing victims don't lose interest?

[Vynd]

I am indifferent as to whether or not we start Real Soon Now. More players would be nice but if other people want to play now that's fine. One thing I am thinking though is that with the thread titled "Play the World Restart" we may not be getting much attention from people looking to join a new game. So if we're going to wait for more, perhaps we should advertise?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Vynd:
One thing I am thinking though is that with the thread titled "Play the World Restart" we may not be getting much attention from people looking to join a new game.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Better?

[Vynd]

Hmm, I dunno. Has anyone else asked to join? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Vynd]

Hmm, I dunno. Has anyone else asked to join? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Maltrease]

The new name has enticed me to join. I will take Pythium.

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Better? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, this thread finally got my attention. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What are game rules/settings? All I see is 50% magic site frequency.

[ June 02, 2004, 15:30: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

[Tuskerlove]

If you don't mind a novice trying his hand ~ I'd be willing to play - Ermor would be fine if it is still available.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
What are game rules/settings? All I see is 50% magic site frequency. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indy-6, rare randoms, sites-50. While some people are a big fan of random events, I'm not one of those, and with a map this huge, you tend to very quickly hit your 3-event quota, so you'll end up dealing with the nuisance of 3 events EVERY turn otherwise.

[Norfleet]

Victim list:

Caelum: Me.
Mictlan: izaqyos
Vanheim: Tuidjy
Ulm: Yvelina
C'tis: Argitoth
Arco: (Firebreath)
Mary: Zombie
Jot: Vigabrand
Aby: Cohen
Pan: Vynd
R'lyeh: Xodan (DomX)
Ermor: Tuskerlove

11-12 victims. Somewhat better

Daynarr, did you want to join? That'd give us ~12-13, which is close to what we had before. Definitely a worthy crowd.

[Firebreath]

Sorry for keeping my situation in limbo, I will have to be gone for a lot longer than planned (10 days), so please count me out.

[Daynarr]

Well, if Firebreath wont use Arco, I will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I will need some more info, like WHERE to join? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Btw, Maltrease wants Pythum a post below mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
I will need some more info, like WHERE to join? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That was in the very beginning of the thread. I'll restate it here: Sign-up is on kludgemush.com 10629.

CURRENT CATTLE CALL:
Caelum: Me.
Mictlan: izaqyos
Vanheim: Tuidjy
Ulm: Yvelina
C'tis: Argitoth
Arco: (Daynarr)
Mary: Zombie
Jot: Vigabrand
Aby: Cohen
Pan: Vynd
R'lyeh: Xodan (DomX)
Ermor: Tuskerlove
Pythium: Maltrease

[Norfleet]

Okay, since there don't appear to be any more victims looking to join the fray, we'll begin the carnage as soon as the Maltrease uploads his pretender. I'll be sure to bug him about this next time I see him on the IRC.

[Vynd]

At Last I can get the revenge I so richly deserve... on the World! Muhahahaha!

[Norfleet]

Is Daynarr properly registered, or is that Firebreath's arco 2h I see?

[Daynarr]

I uploaded my pretender there so I guess you have my 2h.

[Norfleet]

Excellente. The game will begin momentarily.

[Maltrease]

Sorry about that.
I'm in.

[Norfleet]

The game has been started.
In case people have forgotten the address, here it is again: kludgemush.com 10629

We will go to 24h timer once everyone has indicated they are aware of this start by sending in their first turn, or has taken far too long and been deemed AWOL. If too many people have gone AWOL, we'll have to cancel.

Let the games begin!

[Vynd]

Those of us who were in the game the first time out should get rid of their old turn file and .2h file. I didn't realize this until after I tried to play my first turn, but hopefully no harm was done.

[Norfleet]

It should be harmless. I've never had a problem with retained turn files before, they usually get overwritten when you reconnect.

[Tuskerlove]

hmmm.....

I'm getting an error that reads like this:

myloadmalloc:can't open./maps/world/tga

anyone have a link for the download of the world map?

I've seen a few Versions and I want to make sure I d/l the correct one.

[Vynd]

I used the Torvak's World map available on Illwinter's site, and it works. Actually, I tried the original world map first and it worked as well, but I found it difficult to "read."

It looks like they've put up a new Version of Torvak's World since I downloaded my copy. If you're using Version 3, try going back to Version 2 instead and see if that helps.

[ June 05, 2004, 13:52: Message edited by: Vynd ]

[Cohen]

A had the same problem Vynd, DLed the Torvak and it worked fine.

[Tuskerlove]

This is my first MP game, how long does it take between turns. Do we have a set time limit or is it open until everyone takes their turn?

[Reverend Zombie]

To our gracious host: will you be patching to 2.12?

[Norfleet]

I have concerns that patching may break compatibility with existing pretenders and unnecessary alarm the chickens, so at present, there are no plans to patch anything. This may change if circumstances find it to be safe and/or harmless. I'm of the belief that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ June 07, 2004, 20:15: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Norfleet]

We appear to currently be awaiting the turns of C'tis(Argitoth) and Mictlan(izaqyos).

Let's get a move on it, ladies!

[Tuidjy]

The pox on the patch.
Today I tried to submit a turn. Version 2.11
naggotted. 'Your Version is too old, get a new
one'. I tried 2.12, and the server must have
crashed. I have never seen a patch that breaks
games in such an insidious way. What the hell
is wrong with a simple Version check, and FORCING
clients to have the right Version before playing?

But, Hell, I am mostly trying to avoid the blame
for crashing the server. I appologize, and I am
sure that Norfleet will just erase my stupid turn
and everything will fine.

[Daynarr]

Maybe its not a bad idea to upgrade this game to 2.12 as well. Since Mosehansen has upgraded their server most players will have their Version upgraded as well. Having different Versions can confuse people and cause more errors like this.

[Norfleet]

Okay, Argitoth has sent in his turn, so we've begun the timer. I've set it at 36 hours for this next turn, will reduce to 24 shortly.

Originally posted by Tuidjy:
I tried 2.12, and the server must have
crashed. I have never seen a patch that breaks
games in such an insidious way. What the hell
is wrong with a simple Version check, and FORCING
clients to have the right Version before playing?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You must not have seen a lot of patches. Sure, you can ask for a simple Version check, but that would require ANOTHER patch(augh). And after this one, I'd really rather not ask Illwinter for another patch. I'd just as soon see that this to be the Last patch.

Originally posted by Tuidjy:
I appologize, and I am
sure that Norfleet will just erase my stupid turn
and everything will fine. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Deleted! Resubmit, this time without the funny new Version.

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Maybe its not a bad idea to upgrade this game to 2.12 as well. Since Mosehansen has upgraded their server most players will have their Version upgraded as well. Having different Versions can confuse people and cause more errors like this. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Except that I have concerns that this will break people's pretenders. Since 2.12 added nothing that I actually care for or about, and some of the clan and several others frown upon it, at this present time, I have no compelling reason to change anything. If these problems become more frequent, and I receive reports that it is "safe", then I will consider it: Otherwise, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Since 2.12 added nothing that I actually care for or about, and some of the clan and several others frown upon it, at this present time, I have no compelling reason to change anything.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If I frown on it too, can I be in the clan?

[Tuidjy]

Nagot gick fel!

Dominions Version is too old
Get an update at www.illwinter.com (http://www.illwinter.com)
myVersion209 fileVersion212

------------------------------------------------

This is what I get when I try my 2.11 Version.
Hmm... Maybe if I erase the game file... No,
there was no game file for Play the world.
Well, I can always reinstall.

[Norfleet]

It looks like Jotunheim was responsible for that one. Who's our Jotunheim player again?

[Yvelina]

Norfleet, I have the save vampire queen in Faerun as I have in Play the World, and it seems to be doing fine in 2.12. Maybe you should upgrade the server.

[Edit]

Wooops. I think I just uploaded a 2.12 turn. I just wanted to check my turn, and hit the wrong shortcut. This REALLY wasn't done deliberately to convince you to upgrade...

[Edit]

Yay! It was not me! How could have I ever thought it was me... I am too careful for that!

[ June 10, 2004, 00:09: Message edited by: Yvelina ]

[Maltrease]

Now I killed it. I'm Sorry.

Every other game I am in has been updated to 2.12.

[Tuskerlove]

So do I need to upgrade?

[Vynd]

What's with all this talk of "the clan?"

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
No. We're not upgrading the server, so upgrading Dominions II would actually cause more problems. With the way the new patch has been received in the clan, this is not likely a move that will meet with approval: The opinions on the patch run from "Meh, where's my Skratti and Great Warlock?" to things which are far less positive and not fit for repetition here. The move was soundly voted down by 4 nays to 1 abstention. Patching does not look to be in the future of the server. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I must say that I find the reasons strange to put it mildly. Mosehansen has updated all his games and they work fine, no problems with pretenders or ongoing games. Patch does have lots of fixes to both network and balance issues and has no "problems" that come with it. Also, no one will report if the patch is ok or not to you so you will have to check the Boards to see if there are any problems with the patch. Finally, the game has barely started; even if there were problems with pretenders it wouldn’t take such a big effort to restart it in vanilla 2.12.

As far as your clan goes, I don't care about what they vote or say since they are not playing this game. It's your game and you set the rules, but I have right to choose to participate or not. Your clan or anyone else that doesn’t play has no business setting the rules or voting for anything concerning this game. I hope we understand each other.

[ June 10, 2004, 16:28: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Mosehansen has updated all his games and they work fine, no problems with pretenders or ongoing games.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That remains to be seen. The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Patch does have lots of fixes to both network<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This does not concern a Linux server.

and balance issues and has no "problems" that come with it.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And these changes run the risk of setting off Illwinter's new and apparently overzealous alarm system, which DOES appear to be a problem, given that somebody has reported it already.

Also, no one will report if the patch is ok or not to you so you will have to check the Boards to see if there are any problems with the patch.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have. There are. This is not convincing me to shoehorn a switch.

Finally, the game has barely started; even if there were problems with pretenders it wouldn’t take such a big effort to restart it in vanilla 2.12.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Given the amount of hassle and trouble this game has already gone through to get started, I'd rather cancel it than run into more problems. Lately I've been becoming more unfond of the place anyway, as I've stated at the beginning of the thread.

It's your game and you set the rules, but I have right to choose to participate or not.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Am I to understand you are quitting, then?

Your clan or anyone else that doesn’t play has no business setting the rules or voting for anything concerning this game. I hope we understand each other. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The voting does not concern the game: It concerns the server: Since the clan games consist of more than half the server's active games, if the adoption of the patch is seen as so unpopular that it's voted down unanimously with the exception of my abstention, it's not going to be a popular move. It's also not actually my server, so unless somebody has directions for how to make two Versions coexist in Linux, the patch is a no-go.

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
[...] popular move. It's also not actually my server, so unless somebody has directions for how to make two Versions coexist in Linux, the patch is a no-go. [/QB]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That probably isn't that difficult. If nothing else you could run one Version chroot'ed. But if the game is halfway sensibly created, a separate installation directory shoud suffice -- and running the game from another directory, maybe even under another user.

[Daynarr]

Let me put it briefly and as simply as possible since I hate long quote/answer style which apparently lots of posters like to use and tends take parts of Posts out of context.
If the server is NOT going to be updated at all, the you should say so CLEARLY so that everyone participating in this game can choose whether they want to continue playing or not. No mush-mush about clans, voting etc. No one cares who owns the server, who updates it, votes for it or who plays most of the time on it.

BTW. The game hasn't moved from turn one and it's not possible, at the moment, to connect to server; so I'd say that you haven't gone through hassle to start this game since game hasn't really started yet (or to put it in other words, you still have a lot of hassle to go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). That is also a reason why I'm thinking of dropping out since this game simply can't seem to start.

Bottom line is that I don't really care that much about Version I play, but I have a problem with reason you gave.

[Gandalf Parker]

Doesnt Linux co-exist happen the same as Windows co-exist? Just rename the dom2 executable file to dom211 then update.

[Norfleet]

Grah! Screw it. This is so not worth it. Between the constant squabbling, the fact that we already bombed one start, and now a patch on top of that, and the fact that I'm really fed up with the entire mess, rather than wait for players to pull out one by one, I'm going to just cancel the game. This isn't working. Maybe I'll try again when/if I regain sufficient interest in playing.

GAME OVER!

[Reverend Zombie]

Why did you have to go and make the old man crankier than he already was?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Tuskerlove:
So do I need to upgrade? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No. We're not upgrading the server, so upgrading Dominions II would actually cause more problems. With the way the new patch has been received in the clan, this is not likely a move that will meet with approval: The opinions on the patch run from "Meh, where's my Skratti and Great Warlock?" to things which are far less positive and not fit for repetition here. The move was soundly voted down by 4 nays to 1 abstention. Patching does not look to be in the future of the server.

[Argitoth]

... I SAY WE GET THE VILLAGEMEN AND CHASE NORFLEET OUT OF TOWN..

Who's with me!?!?

I say who's with me!!!!!

...ILL DO IT MYSELF!!!

[ June 11, 2004, 20:48: Message edited by: Argitoth ]