New patch available (2.12)

[Johan K]

New patch available (2.12).

As usual you can find it here:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/d2/6.htm

[Teraswaerto]

Will making a copy of the Dom2.exe before patching be enough to have both Versions?

[Cohen]

Azz ...

I expected some more things.
Here some...

Something more about resistances (ie burning pearl reduced to 50% FR, it costs the same of the fire ring, and gives +4Att even if it's higher const research).

Something about Clam of Pearls (too cheap).

Something about Ghost Riders (too cheap or too strong fot its cost).

Something about improving the Send Message options.

Something to improve the Human pretenders, that are totally unused unless forced by house rules.

Above are the essential I expected, I follow with the corollary, or optional.

Review of many magical items, since there're a standard stock of them used, and many others that are totally ignored.

Some improved holy/unholy spellcasting.

Something about certain scales that are not very useful, and too exploitable to take in negative.

Something to allow population growing faster.

Something about Mirror Images, its too high buff, and the bug of replenishing health items striking on mirror images.

New magic items that are national ... like the Black Laurel of Ermor ... something similar for each Nation ... perhaps 2-3 items for nation.

[ June 07, 2004, 12:22: Message edited by: Cohen ]

[Taqwus]

Agreed on the Elemental Armor; 100% immunity to fire, cold and electricity plus prot comparable to basic metal armors was rather strong. Dropping to 50% will make it much harder to have something (particularly undead, as undead have poison resistance innately) immune to just about anything that you can be immune to.

[Vicious Love]

Tsk, tsk. So many weeks, so little patching. Honestly, all we want is one measly brand new underwater nation. Is that too much to ask? Also, nerf EVERYTHING.

Honestly, though, you guys kick quantities of *** that would make the porn industry blush. I've seen very few other games with such excellent support and so many new features constantly available, and most games these days are made by proper design teams which actually do this sort of thing full-time.

...

Of course, if I did have a request for the next patch, it'd involve a "fire and flee in an orderly manner", "fire and stay behind troops", or "fire and stay in the far back of the battlefield" order. Consensus on these fora seems to be that that sorta thing is called for. Pretty please?


* "Team" != 2 people and assorted friends and hangers-on

Update: What typo?

[ June 07, 2004, 14:13: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Cohen:
I expected some more things. Here some...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If that was a joke then you might want to smilie it. If it wasnt a joke then I am biting back a choice list of words I would like to put here. A change a day isnt enough?

For me, Im thrilled to see some attention on Pangaea. The VQ response seems adequate expecially with the elemental armor change. And of course all of the hosting things (cheat switch, --preexec, windows network bug, host crash) and NAME MODDING? Time to break out the random generator routines again. (I do random. Others can search for lists of celtic or babylonian style names). All in all a great patch.

-- (sig line) "Some people nowadays have forgotten how to pay for free things."

[ June 07, 2004, 14:46: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Endoperez]

I am happy to see a new patch is out and running, but... has the demo been updated? There was no mention of it, so I quess not. It would be nice, for Desert Tombs if not for anything else.

[Vicious Love]

[Delayed response] What the sundry expletives?! You fixed the alt-tab texture bug, didn't you?! I LOVED that bug. A's and C's hurling lightning bolts at hyphens and asterisks, just like the ASCII-based dungeon crawls of olden times, and you just went and buried those YEARS of gaming history in the name of your ultramodern, flavor of the month "Version 2.12".

Praise retracted. Good day to you, sirs.[/Delayed response]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Cohen:
Azz ...

I expected some more things.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's really no pleasing some people, is there?

OK, so there isn't much new content, mostly bug/balance fixes. But maybe we should all try the new stuff and balance before complaining? I mean - these two guys are doing this on their spare time, and I don't think Shrapnel pays them anything for it, other than whatever royalties they get for sales of the game. So, if they don't feel they've put enough testing into their future new nation, or new units, or whatever, I'd rather get a small new patch than nothing.

[Teraswaerto]

The changes to Desert Tombs look great.

[atul]

Desert Tomb, Tomb Guard. No more Sloth for lizards... (or then I've just played too much nations with crappy basic troops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Only... while all the predator lizards have ran away, how come you still can recruit Taskmasters? Hopefully they at least get Berserk+0 for being unemployed and frustrated?-p

[WraithLord]

Can someone summarize the changes to pangaea and desert tombs?

TIS

[atul]

Originally posted by izaqyos:
Can someone summarize the changes to pangaea and desert tombs?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Haven't played Pans much in dom2 so can't say too much about them, Desert Tombs have at least two new units (Desert Ranger, MI? patroller; Tomb Guard, prot-21 elite) and one new mage (Keeper of the Tombs DFHH). They lost all the predator lizards and shamen. And, as it says in the patch list, Terror as a starting spell and cost to 150.

Edit: The new units seem to be capitol-only.

[ June 07, 2004, 16:13: Message edited by: atul ]

[st.patrik]

Originally posted by izaqyos:
Can someone summarize the changes to pangaea and desert tombs?

TIS <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">NE has been boosted a little: the satyrs have gotten furs and the hoplites have gotten round shields instead of bucklers. The Minotaurs all have a strat move of 2 (except the grove guard). The Dryad hoplite is cheaper, and a bit better, and finally the Pan for NE now has 3N 2E instead of 3N 1E 1?

all great changes (IMO)

and thank you for changing the elemental armour Illwinter!

[Sly Frog]

Great work - such updates and fixes and your efforts are very much appreciated.

[JJ_Colorado]

Thanks for the patch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Newbie question:

If I'm in a PBEM game using 2.11, and I want to start(join) another game that uses 2.12, how does this work? If I updgrade to 2.12 then I won't be able to do turns for my 2.11 game without messing up those people who didn't upgrade, right?

Also, if I'm in a game on Mosehansen server, what is the SOP for patches? Does everyone just get the patch automatically the first day it's out, or does everyone not get the patch until the game finishes?

Thanks for any help/clarification on how these things work!

John

How to Play with Multiple Versions:

Copy your Dom2.exe.

Rename Second Copy to "Dom211.exe"

Check all your Shortcuts to games and modify their command line from Dom2.exe to Dom211.exe for all games not upgrading.

Patch to 2.12.

Check all your shortcuts to games for 2.12 and make sure the command line is Dom2.exe.

Remember which Version you are playing for what games.

Games are only compatiable if they are the same Version. I hope that Mose will tell you if/when he updates and for what games.

[odd_enuf]

anyway to have 2 versins if you've alreayd updated?

odd_enuf

[Maltrease]

You will need someone to send you the Dom2.exe for Version 2.11.

I can do this for you in about an hour if you send me your email address.

[Slygar]

Looks great!!

you guys must be the illest game company I ever saw! Get it, illest..? AHAHAHAHAH... well.. maybe it wasnt *that* funny..

[Slygar]

double post.

[ June 07, 2004, 21:05: Message edited by: Slygar ]

[Molog]

Carrion woods now gets a mandrogora commander with 1 pd. So no more dissolving vinecritters. Also 7 nature and 1 death gems from start site at normal richness.

I noticed some graphics have changed a bit. Nagas now have a crown and scepter thingie.

[PvK]

Looks like another really good patch to me! Lots of neat improvements.

PvK

[HJ]

I've noticed that DT Keeper of the Tombs commander is not sacred even though he's a priest. Was this intentional, as I don't recall seeing any other (holy) priests who are not sacred themselves in the game?

Btw, excellent additions, gameplay- and graphic-wise. Pangaea now really looks scary, with all those satyrs. Well, them and 2-stratmove war minos as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 07, 2004, 22:09: Message edited by: HJ ]

[Cohen]

I've seen a lot of CW Pangea even before the patch ... and they weren't so weak.

[CayseP]

Nice and to the point nerfing of the Vamp Queen IMHO. I guess she will be back in our MP games, hurray...

Thanks for the patch

[mnoracle]

Originally posted by CayseP:
Nice and to the point nerfing of the Vamp Queen IMHO. I guess she will be back in our MP games, hurray...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think it was a bit too hard for VQ IMO (domininion 2->1, cost 110->150, path cost 40->50).
But i think much more important is an elemental armor nerfing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Arralen]

Oh, it's great, I love them - they gave the Satyrs furs to make the graphics compatible to my mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Looks like they like the idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And they even got the beards right .. looking quite "ancient greek" to me now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by HJ:
I've noticed that DT Keeper of the Tombs commander is not sacred even though he's a priest. Was this intentional, as I don't recall seeing any other (holy) priests who are not sacred themselves in the game?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Druids are not sacred.

[Arralen]

Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
Druids are not sacred. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The 140 gold indie druids are. Still the same with 2.12, just checked.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by Arralen:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
Druids are not sacred. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The 140 gold indie druids are. Still the same with 2.12, just checked. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a 2.12 save where they are not, and I seem to recall the same in earlier Versions.

EDIT: It may have someting to do with playing Ermor, however, the sacred is missing in the recruitment screen, but the holy levels remain.

[ June 08, 2004, 02:05: Message edited by: quantum_mechani ]

[HJ]

Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
I have a 2.12 save where thay are not, and I seem to recall the same in earlier Versions.

EDIT: It may have someting to do with playing Ermor, however, the sacred is missing in the recruitment screen, but the holy levels remain. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I also have a save where druids are sacred. And IIRC they have always been. I really don't think I've seen any other non-sacred priests (which means they cannot even bless themselves). But, maybe it is intentional, as C'tis already has plenty of sacred commanders, though it seems a bit unusual.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by HJ:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
I have a 2.12 save where thay are not, and I seem to recall the same in earlier Versions.

EDIT: It may have someting to do with playing Ermor, however, the sacred is missing in the recruitment screen, but the holy levels remain. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I also have a save where druids are sacred. And IIRC they have always been. I really don't think I've seen any other non-sacred priests (which means they cannot even bless themselves). But, maybe it is intentional, as C'tis already has plenty of sacred commanders, though it seems a bit unusual. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I said Ermor . I have also noticed that the hoburg priest in the offical hoburg mod also lacks sacred.

[ June 08, 2004, 03:05: Message edited by: quantum_mechani ]

[Lepakko]

Thx for new patch its looks good

[Cohen]

IIRC Ermor has Shadow Vestal that can be summoned, and are the sacred troops.

IIRC in default Ermor it's a site enter order, but I'm not sure, I'm not very fond of Ermor.

[HJ]

Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
I said Ermor . I have also noticed that the hoburg priest in the offical hoburg mod also lacks sacred. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know you have. And I wouldn't know about that. I just reiterated my observation, and confirmed Arralen's.

Cheers,

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by HJ:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
I said Ermor . I have also noticed that the hoburg priest in the offical hoburg mod also lacks sacred. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know you have. And I wouldn't know about that. I just reiterated my observation, and confirmed Arralen's.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry, my mistake http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Ivan Pedroso]

Nice patch !!!

A like the VQ and E-armor adjustements along with all the other stuff.

You guys rule !

(All this "I love Sweedes" will be put on hold for 2x45mins on the 22nd of June. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The return of Henke won't help you - Danish Dynamite Forever http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

[liga]

Originally posted by Johan K:
New patch available (2.12).

As usual you can find it here:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/d2/6.htm <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">great! I have just ask 2 week ago about Name Modding and I got it in this patch ... thank you devs! So now I could play without having to rename all my lizards one by one!!!!

good play
Liga

[mnoracle]

Ups, where is the Great Warlock?

[Minrhael]

Incidentally, the patch fails in the following instance: I had a .txt file command_line_switches.txt in a dominions2/doc folder (can't remember if that folder came with the install or if I added it to hold things like item and spell pdfs and other usermade documentation); when running the patcher it gave error:

This program cannot update the installed Version of Dominions II because of the follwing reason:

C:\Program Files\dominions2\doc\command_line_switches.txt: unknown Version.

I don't know if it's just this filename it didn't like or if any .txt files in the doc folder mess it up; it didn't have any problem with the .html or .pdf files I had in there. Anyway, I just copied the .txt out to desktop, deleted it from doc, patched fine, moved it back in, not a big deal.

However, I can't think of any reason why a usermade text document that isn't even going to be overwritten should cause any problems to a patch install program, just thought I should mention it.

[Scott Hebert]

For me, the real highlight of this patch is Desert Tombs. While I didn't have much of a problem with them before, what I like so much about them now is the tight thematic focus given to them. As I've stated elsewhere, the whole Banefire idea really works well with them. The Shaman replacement is good, and the Tomb Guard seems almost wholly unnecessary, but a welcome addition.

I haven't looked at Pangaea much, as I have a hard time 'getting into them', but I might try New Era again, if Dryad Hoplites are a feasible strategy now.

Thanks for a great patch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Scott

[Blitz]

I guess the VQ has gone from the top spot to the middle of the pack after this patch. She's still better than all the humanoids, most of the titans and just about every immobile though. Nice touch taking her away from Ermor as well... since I'm sure most Ermor min/max players really don't care about the level 2 fire or whatever they would have to lose to get the same effect. I'm really not too worried about seeing any uber Ermor Ghost Kings any time soon. Not being immortal changes things a lot.

It's too bad neither of my pet wishes were adressed... those beng Golden Era Arcoscophile needing changes and overall avatar balancing. but it's a nice patch nontheless, and adressed the most important Mp balancing issues.

The new Desert Tombs looks nice, although I have one question. Is the shaman replacement supposed ot be feature or a drawback? I'd much rather have my shaman with his nature/astral powers than this guy. I guess he's a cheaper site searcher and decent researcher... but not an improvement. Just a nitpick, nice patch guys.

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Originally posted by Blitz:
It's too bad neither of my pet wishes were adressed... those beng Golden Era Arcoscophile needing changes and overall avatar balancing. but it's a nice patch nontheless, and adressed the most important Mp balancing issues. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why don't you create a mod that accomplishes this? That would make it possible to test the proposed changes before making it the default. And if Illwinter makes it possible to enable mods on the command line, you could even create a game on my server with your mod :-D

[Blitz]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Blitz:
It's too bad neither of my pet wishes were adressed... those beng Golden Era Arcoscophile needing changes and overall avatar balancing. but it's a nice patch nontheless, and adressed the most important Mp balancing issues.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you create a mod that accomplishes this? That would make it possible to test the proposed changes before making it the default. And if Illwinter makes it possible to enable mods on the command line, you could even create a game on my server with your mod :-D
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've considered it, believe me. The problem is that it's quite a bit of work and I'm not really sure people would use the mod. For example, someone with a particular liking for the Ghost King might install the mod and note that I had changed GK paths to a more-reasonable 30. That person is unlikely to use the mod, as his favorite avatar had been nerfed. Others would obviously disagree with certian balancing decisions I had made and reject it for those reasons.

Clearly, if a balance mod of this magnitude were to be done properly, it would have to be the work of more than one person. If several veteran players got together and discussed the various issues, and collectively created a new price/path costing table, it would be far more likely to gain some kind of acceptance. The dominions community is quite small, compared to other games. This is a good thing if you hope to see your ideas used in an upcoming patch. If such an undertaking were to be started, I would be more than happy to participate.

[Cohen]

I'd even raise his new path to 40, and to 50 or 60 the new path cost of the Allfather.

Those chassis seems a little more costy, but if you think on that a Virtue, or a Moloch, with a new path of 70 or 80 points, to get another path the go in pair with the base cost of an Allfather or Gk ... while these ones can take a lot of magic for buffing spells, that usually requires only 1 or 2 level in magc path.

[ June 09, 2004, 11:14: Message edited by: Cohen ]

Cohen has officially lost it.

[Master Shake]

Revelers rock now.

[tinkthank]

I'd also like to say thanks for the patch, which had a lot of really nice content too. Pangaia is looking really nice now (although I wish the NE Pan had received 2N 2E 1?, since now they are without randoms, but who cares, it's a minor point)! I bet that took forever to do and balance and test and stuff....

I would be thrilled even if the next patch would have ZERO additional content or balance changes, but would just stick to bugfixing -- personal peeves are "Goto Commander / Province" not working when stealthy battles took place, Merc re-bidding default is doubled, CotW still works in all provs.

It seems to me that a huge portion of the work you guys do on these patches is highly supererogatory (which of course merits great thanks!).

[Thedrellum]

Not that this is a big issue for those with the full Version of the game, but the patch (without a corresponding patch to the demo) means that it's difficult to test the multiplayer aspect of Dominions II, which is really the only interesting part to me. I played Dominions I and was hoping I could get involved in a game (where my nation would be restricted, a la with Dom I) so I could see whether addiction was forthcoming again.

[Cohen]

What I've lost?

[Vynd]

Originally posted by Thedrellum:
Not that this is a big issue for those with the full Version of the game, but the patch (without a corresponding patch to the demo) means that it's difficult to test the multiplayer aspect of Dominions II, which is really the only interesting part to me. I played Dominions I and was hoping I could get involved in a game (where my nation would be restricted, a la with Dom I) so I could see whether addiction was forthcoming again. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Was there a 2.11 patch for the demo? If not, hasn't this been going on for a long time now?

Anyway, I haven't played the demo. But if it supports multiplayer with other people using the demo, then why not try and round up some of those folks to play a multiplyer gmae with?

One thing I do know about the demo is that it cuts you off after 40 turns. I, for one, wouldn't want to get involved in a multiplayer game with people who I knew (or worse, didn't know) were going to disappear after 40 turns.

[Sheap]

I agree that it would be good if the demo Version and the full Version were the same Version. As it is now, with the 2.08 full patch not generally available and there being no 2.12 demo, effectively in a demo game everyone has to use the demo. This doesn't matter *too* much because in a demo game the most important limit is the 40-turn rule. But it still prevents people with the full Version from playing the non-demo empires.

[Thedrellum]

I hadn't been able to find info about the limitations of the demo, so I'd assumed that it was like Dominions 1. For that demo you could play entire games, but without upper level units and spells.

You both are right, though, the turn limit does make the demo more difficult to use in terms of trying the MP game out. I'll see--I'm trying to round up some players now.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[PDF]

Originally posted by Sheap:
I agree that it would be good if the demo Version and the full Version were the same Version. As it is now, with the 2.08 full patch not generally available and there being no 2.12 demo, effectively in a demo game everyone has to use the demo. This doesn't matter *too* much because in a demo game the most important limit is the 40-turn rule. But it still prevents people with the full Version from playing the non-demo empires. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The 40-turn limit ? IMHO the most important restriction is the research <= level 4 ...

[Sheap]

Yes, I think so. You can play a game to its conclusion using only lower level research, but you can't play a game to conclusion using only 40 turns, especially not on the maps included in the demo.

[fahdiz]

Thank you for the patch, Illwinter.

I appreciate all the hard work you guys put in, and how much you listen to the fans.

Hats off to you.

[Inermis]

newbie question:
what will happen to my VQ pretender, who was desingen in 2.11, after pathing? it will lose only 1 dominion? or it will be considered as a cheat couse to different cost of paths? or it will be done nothing with her so i could play as ussual ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Inermis:
newbie question:
what will happen to my VQ pretender, who was desingen in 2.11, after pathing? it will lose only 1 dominion? or it will be considered as a cheat couse to different cost of paths? or it will be done nothing with her so i could play as ussual ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It wont fix her after she has been created. That would mess up alot of things. She will apparently be considered a cheat if you used up all your creation points since she now would cost more to make than you get. You can either ignore the message or try turning off the cheat checks if you start a new game with her

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Inermis:
newbie question:
what will happen to my VQ pretender, who was desingen in 2.11, after pathing? it will lose only 1 dominion? or it will be considered as a cheat couse to different cost of paths? or it will be done nothing with her so i could play as ussual ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have VQ in one of my MP games and when Mosehansen updated to 2.12 it proceeded normally without any cheat Messages. I used all the points I had.

[Johan K]

The vampire queen will only trigger the cheat detection if you design the god with v 2.11 and then start a BRAND NEW game with Version 2.12. Old games will not be affected.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Johan K:
The vampire queen will only trigger the cheat detection if you design the god with v 2.11 and then start a BRAND NEW game with Version 2.12. Old games will not be affected. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow, that seems like tricky programming to me. Good job.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by mnoracle:
Ups, where is the Great Warlock? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Also the Skratti - I really expected Abysia and Jotunheim to get back the Pretenders that supposedly had been removed by accident Last time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

However, the playbalance changes to Pangaea and Desert Tombs sound great, not to mention helping out the VQ, who really was a little underpowered. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Cainehill]

Seems "immunity" isn't what it used to be.

Since the Elemental Armor only gives 50% resistance to fire/cold/lightning now, it really shouldn't have a description (when forging / looking at the item) of giving immunity.