New Version of Barbarian Kings mod

[quantum_mechani]

*Fear -4 on horsemen (+0 on khans), as well as the pillage bonus and waste survival from the previous Version.

*Khans and horsemen cheaper as well.

*A new mage/priest replaceing the ceremonial master. An immobile barbarian elemental totem (sacred, one holy level, and an elemantal random).

*Minor stat tweaks including better precision on horsemen.

Please post any comments. You can find the mod here (http://www.dominions-2.org/files.htm).

[ July 16, 2004, 15:56: Message edited by: quantum_mechani ]

[Arryn]

Please recheck the actual contents of that ZIP file. BTW, when you fix the file, please email me a copy so that I may update the Version that I host for you on my website.

EDIT: it appears the file was screwed up somewhere in the process of emailing from you to Zen.

[ July 16, 2004, 06:40: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[Arryn]

A corrected copy of this latest Version is available from my site. The direct link is here (http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/qbarb.zip) .

[tinkthank]

yeah I get internet links, and I cant rename them for some reason (they are now e.g. "barbmod.tga.url" in the zip, but when I click on "rename" once I unzip them, the ".url" isnt there to delete.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
yeah I get internet links, and I cant rename them for some reason (they are now e.g. "barbmod.tga.url" in the zip, but when I click on "rename" once I unzip them, the ".url" isnt there to delete. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you look at those URLs you'll see that they are local hard disk links on Zen's own machine. Obviously, something went wrong when Zen saved the file attachments or bundled them into an archive.

As I posted, a proper archive with valid files is available on my site.

EDIT: quantum should edit his 1st post in this thread to remove the link to the bad file on Zen's server.

[ July 16, 2004, 07:55: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[tinkthank]

Thanks.

[tinkthank]

Hey quantum, YOUR MOD IS GREAT!

The totem is really a great idea. That is original and thematic. Very nice.

I think if you are lowering the prices of the barb horsemen while keeping all their new goodies (wasteland survival, pillage (yes!), lesser fear) you gave them, that their morale should once again be brought down to reasonable levels (the original ones, which IIRC are not shabby at 11 and 12, or even 10 and 11). This would be a further incentive for Khans, the standard bearers. Simply for balance reasons, but also thematically: 13 morale is scary devotion of a knight. I believe Illwinter thought the original idea of 20/25 price somehow reflected having to pay them lots to get them to fight (like the blurb text about Shamblers).

I am going to try em out asap!! thanks much!!

[PvK]

I like the Totem idea, but:
* Is it not unmoving? Why does it have better fighting skills than a Celestial Master?
* The Ceremonial Master that the Totem replaces is not a BK-only unit. So why not just add it, since it will appear in other themes anyway?

I very much like:
* Reduced Barbarian Horseman cost.
* Added pillage bonus.
* Increased accuracy.
* Wasteland Survival.

I'm not so sure about:
* Added Fear ability.
* Very high morale.
* Added attack skill.

I might suggest:
* Even lower Barbarian Horseman cost, but also losing some of the abilities back where they were (Fear, Morale, Attack skill). Barbarians aren't accustomed to a high gold salary, and Khans rule them by strength, leadership, and fear, rather than by paying them a lot. So it seems appropriate to have them have exceptionally low gold cost. Fear and morale will then come as a natural side effect of having a whole bunch of them due to their low cost and ability to survive without supplies, rather than due to a supernatural Fear ability and high base morale.
* Add Plains Survival as well, and/or maybe Supply Generation or Need Not Eat, because nomads are hunter/gatherers.

PvK

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by PvK:
I like the Totem idea, but:
* Is it not unmoving? Why does it have better fighting skills than a Celestial Master?
* The Ceremonial Master that the Totem replaces is not a BK-only unit. So why not just add it, since it will appear in other themes anyway?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The HP and armour represent that it is made of wood, but you're right, defence should be zero. In retrospect, I should have made it a whole new unit, however I don't see that it matters much.

I'm not so sure about:
* Added Fear ability.
* Very high morale.
* Added attack skill.

I might suggest:
* Even lower Barbarian Horseman cost, but also losing some of the abilities back where they were (Fear, Morale, Attack skill). Barbarians aren't accustomed to a high gold salary, and Khans rule them by strength, leadership, and fear, rather than by paying them a lot. So it seems appropriate to have them have exceptionally low gold cost. Fear and morale will then come as a natural side effect of having a whole bunch of them due to their low cost and ability to survive without supplies, rather than due to a supernatural Fear ability and high base morale.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I considered this, but lowering the price much more would mean that the other national troops would never get built. Also, I am quite pleased with the effect of fear in battles- enemy troops are a bit more likely to route than normal, which I consider thematic.

* Add Plains Survival as well, and/or maybe Supply Generation or Need Not Eat, because nomads are hunter/gatherers.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think there is plains survival. Need Not Eat is a possibility, but it seems a bigger stretch than cause fear.

And about lowering the morale, the standard effect is actually stronger with better morale. Since the troops take a bit longer to route, the standard has time to regenerate the lost morale. And I'm not sure it is less thematic, my understading was that personal bravery was important to the Mongols.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback.

[Yossar]

Originally posted by quantum_mechani:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by PvK:
* Add Plains Survival as well, and/or maybe Supply Generation or Need Not Eat, because nomads are hunter/gatherers.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think there is plains survival. Need Not Eat is a possibility, but it seems a bigger stretch than cause fear.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Supply Bonus 1 would work, wouldn't it?

[PvK]

Originally posted by Yossar:
Supply Bonus 1 would work, wouldn't it? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, it would be a similar effect to Need Not Eat. The difference would matter when you had a mixed army of supply bonus units and not - a random mix would starve, instead of only the non-Need-Not-Eaters.

PvK