defeat seeking arrow?

[Merry Jolkar]

My T'ien Ch'i Celestial masters are getting decimated by seeking arrows. What can I do about this? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Also, is it plausible that Man is sending these? Do they have access to much wind magic? Jottenheim are the other likely candidate. Are they more plausible?

Thanks!
Merry

[ July 20, 2004, 08:12: Message edited by: Merry Jolkar ]

[Norfleet]

I'd definitely blame Man: Man easily has the Air Magic to do this. The solutions for avoiding this arrowing problem: You can build tons of scout chaff, and have them set to something other than Hide, whereupon they'll distract some arrows (and get hit), but they're much cheaper than Celestial Masters and probably will even survive a single arrow. Alternatively, you can forge robes of missile protection and lucky pendants for your masters, both of which reduce the odds of hitting if an arrow locks onto them. Combining the two works even better, since then the odds that a master is targetted at all is reduced lowered, and even if one is, the odds of a successful hit are similarly reduced.

[Merry Jolkar]

Norfleet,
Thanks for the advice. How much damage does the arrow do, BTW?
There are also province shields of various sorts, right? Do they stop the arrow?
Merry

[ July 20, 2004, 13:29: Message edited by: Merry Jolkar ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I'd definitely blame Man: Man easily has the Air Magic to do this. The solutions for avoiding this arrowing problem: You can build tons of scout chaff, and have them set to something other than Hide, whereupon they'll distract some arrows (and get hit), but they're much cheaper than Celestial Masters and probably will even survive a single arrow. Alternatively, you can forge robes of missile protection and lucky pendants for your masters, both of which reduce the odds of hitting if an arrow locks onto them. Combining the two works even better, since then the odds that a master is targetted at all is reduced lowered, and even if one is, the odds of a successful hit are similarly reduced. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Doesn't etherealness also help? Or no, because the arrow is magic - never mind. High armor does at least help the mages survive though.

[Merry Jolkar]

Thank you Cainhill. So, how much armor do I need to stop these buggers?

[tinkthank]

I am not even sure it is a "real" arrow at all (I mean: treated like a real battle sequence).

I think there are only 3 outcomes to this event:
(I may be wrong)

1. You die
2. You survive, but got an ugly chestwound
3. You manage to survive the incident without a scratch

There seems to be some consensus that missile protection helps; I am unsure about luck, and about armor, however. I cant seem to see a difference. I think the mechanics of the event are not too clear. Maybe I am wrong though.

[Boron]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
I am not even sure it is a "real" arrow at all (I mean: treated like a real battle sequence).

I think there are only 3 outcomes to this event:
(I may be wrong)

1. You die
2. You survive, but got an ugly chestwound
3. You manage to survive the incident without a scratch

There seems to be some consensus that missile protection helps; I am unsure about luck, and about armor, however. I cant seem to see a difference. I think the mechanics of the event are not too clear. Maybe I am wrong though. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">hm i never got so far the 3. outcome that it didn't hit me anyway .

does it do a limited amount of damage or how does it work ?
if i play pythium or tien chi and so on my valuable lowhp mages always die http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

how is it with jotun e.g. ?
since i never played them farer than turn 5 i have no expierience . but if there is a damage roll have their mages enough hitpoints that they only suffer a chestwound and nothing more ?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
but if there is a damage roll have their mages enough hitpoints that they only suffer a chestwound and nothing more ? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is a damage roll, and it appears to be similar to an arrow fired from a magical bow. I'm not sure whether it's a longbow or shortbow however.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Boron:
but if there is a damage roll have their mages enough hitpoints that they only suffer a chestwound and nothing more ? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is a damage roll, and it appears to be similar to an arrow fired from a magical bow. I'm not sure whether it's a longbow or shortbow however. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">thnx for the info graeme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

hm according to zen's miqr a longbow of accuracy does 14 damage without strenghtsbonus .
so it is 14 + 2d6 oe right ?

a jotun skratti e.g. has 32 hp , 9 protection .
even if he had 0 protection he could only be killed if the 2d6 throw is oe right ?

so even unequipped jotun and pangenea standard mages and others with many hitpoints and / or good protection can only be hit by a lucky open ended throw so not very often while e.g. a pythium arch theurg has almost no chance to survive ?

[Curath]

Sunray's Dom 2 Library extra info on spells says Seeking Arrow does 5-15 damage. Anti-missile items and etherealness offer protection. Also, Perpetual Storm will blow 75% of Seeking Arrows off course. Province shielding spells should work, since it's an incoming spell.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
hm according to zen's miqr a longbow of accuracy does 14 damage without strenghtsbonus .
so it is 14 + 2d6 oe right ?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have no idea. Like I said, the damage is somewhere between a longbow and a shortbow, ie. from 10 to 13 plus whatever random modifiers show up.

so even unequipped jotun and pangenea standard mages and others with many hitpoints and / or good protection can only be hit by a lucky open ended throw so not very often while e.g. a pythium arch theurg has almost no chance to survive ?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, this is what happens to all unarmored humans in the game when they are hit byvarious weapons.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Curath:
Sunray's Dom 2 Library extra info on spells says Seeking Arrow does 5-15 damage. Anti-missile items and etherealness offer protection. Also, Perpetual Storm will blow 75% of Seeking Arrows off course. Province shielding spells should work, since it's an incoming spell. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">do you know if it is 5-15 oe ?
i think it must be because in one spgame i played as pythium the ai got the idea at turn 10 or so to seeking arrow me for about 5 turns and none of my theurgs / archtheurgs survived http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

does the glamour ability of vanheim help too ? or their mirror images ?

spectators + dusk elders are both etheral so it seems that most nations are quite vulnerable early-midgame against it expect jotun , pangenea , ermor a bit because of etheralness and a few i am not so familiar with http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

for pythium or tien chi e.g. it seems extremely devastating ihmo if they get seeking missiled early .

[Endoperez]

Originally posted by Boron:
does the glamour ability of vanheim help too ? or their mirror images ?

for pythium or tien chi e.g. it seems extremely devastating ihmo if they get seeking missiled early . <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Glamour does not, but sneaking does. Atleast I think so. Not very useable, but in a desperate situation...

Also, as both Pythium and T'ien C'hi have air mages themselves they can search for gems and make some Robes (or Amulets) of Missile Protection, Weightless (kite/tower) Shields and/or Llightweight/ weightless scale mails. All of these items are available at Construction 2, and only amulet of missile protection and weightless scale mail require Air 2, others only need skill level of one (and 5 gems).

[archaeolept]

robe of missile protection is the cheapest counter. that, and a bunch of non-hidden scouts. Really, all you have to do is make it not cost-effective for the casting player.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by archaeolept:
robe of missile protection is the cheapest counter. that, and a bunch of non-hidden scouts. Really, all you have to do is make it not cost-effective for the casting player. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Bunch of Non-Hidden Scouts tends to be even cheaper, because the scouts, due to their leather armor, and superior hitpoints, often survive the arrowing. With so many scouts in the province, the odds that the scout is actually hit twice and killed is much lower, and you're probably not concerned with the ultimate fate and afflicted status of your scout chaff anyway. Scout chaff is good technique for all such spells.

[Kristoffer O]

It's a normal shortbow (IIRC). Chest wound comes as an extra. Air shield, luck, etherealness and armor works fine.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
It's a normal shortbow (IIRC). Chest wound comes as an extra. Air shield, luck, etherealness and armor works fine. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know Air Shield and Luck work, but I don't think Etherealness has any effect, since otherwise an Ethereal unit would be missed 75% of the time....which never happens.

Armor works, to a limited extent: Even if the arrow completely fails to inflict any actual damage, the target still automatically receives a chest wound.

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
It's a normal shortbow (IIRC). Chest wound comes as an extra. Air shield, luck, etherealness and armor works fine. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ha! Told you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif That's also what Sunray's guide says.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
It's a normal shortbow (IIRC). Chest wound comes as an extra. Air shield, luck, etherealness and armor works fine. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know Air Shield and Luck work, but I don't think Etherealness has any effect, since otherwise an Ethereal unit would be missed 75% of the time....which never happens.

Armor works, to a limited extent: Even if the arrow completely fails to inflict any actual damage, the target still automatically receives a chest wound. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry, but KO is right. I've had ethereal units shrug off such attacks countless times. And even non-ethereal units do not "automatically" receive chest wounds. They, too, can get lucky and completely shrug off damage/wounding.