Bane Spider intelligence.

[Borg]

I have some rough ideas on how to best use the Bane Spider individually or in a stealth squad.

But nothing beats actual experience with the unit though so I'd like to hear from you guys first how you made "best use" of this exceptional Machaka unit.

In what situations have you used him before ?
Were there specific situations where the Bane Spider left an impression on you ?

Or does he always seem to run into Commanders with 5 bodyguards and do you avoid him most of the time ?

Is a Bane Spider capable of bringing more units than only himself to an assassination job ? Maybe the units which are instructed to bodyguard him ?

[ July 23, 2004, 14:44: Message edited by: Borg ]

[Pickles]

"In what situations have you used him before ?
Were there specific situations where the Bane Spider left an impression on you ?"

Messing around in SP he can take Indep provinces on his own by killing the commanders. He is comfortably the toughest assassin out of the box. Not sure if this is better than building an army though. He is also hard to boost as he starts so good.

"Or does he always seem to run into Commanders with 5 bodyguards and do you avoid him most of the time?"

Not in SP except the odd priest. I think in mp his use wil be limited


"Is a Bane Spider capable of bringing more units than only himself to an assassin job ? Maybe the units which are instructed to bodyguard him ? "

Not in my tests no. I guess he & his aides are more use in MP as stealthy raiders.

Pickles
Talking through his hat

[Sindai]

I think the fact that the Bane Spider is the closest thing the game has to a ninja is reason enough to use him every chance you get. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Borg:
Is a Bane Spider capable of bringing more units than only himself to an assassination job ? Maybe the units which are instructed to bodyguard him ? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only the "auto" minions generated by some items - wraith crown, skull talisman, etc. And of course, the skull talisman would probably be a problem, unless you spammed skeletons rather than attacking, otherwise the BS would retreat as soon as the skeleton was killed. Wraith Crown, on the other paw, generates approximately 5-10 undead, more than enough to provide a comfortable buffer.

The big problem I found with Bane Spiders was mounted commanders and mages.

[Borg]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
The big problem I found with Bane Spiders was mounted commanders and mages. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mounteds are indeed a problem I reckon (that charge being a bit hefty) but against mages maybe there's a solution.
Aren't their boots available which grant Flying ?
When being able to pop up in base contact with the mage right away, wouldn't that be helpfull ?
Is there not a chance that spellcasting is interrupted when somebody's hacking in on you ?

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Borg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Cainehill:
The big problem I found with Bane Spiders was mounted commanders and mages. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mounteds are indeed a problem I reckon (that charge being a bit hefty) but against mages maybe there's a solution.
Aren't their boots available which grant Flying ?
When being able to pop up in base contact with the mage right away, wouldn't that be helpfull ?
Is there not a chance that spellcasting is interrupted when somebody's hacking in on you ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but the AI usually puts bodyguards on mages, although you can get lucky against human players. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, the defender goes first, meaning the mage gets off at least one spell, possibly a nasty one.

[PvK]

I've had mixed results with Bane Spiders. I think they are a good unit. Without any items, they have some weaknesses in their speed and fatigue rate and low defense. The high protection and coming with bane blades makes them effective assassins though - they can kill with just one scratch, even if they get killed themselves. They are expensive though and one needs to weigh whether it makes sense to add items, making an even greater investment for more effectiveness, or not. The use against some independents is a good one, I think. Also, against a human, using an occasional bane spider or two may get them paranoid and doing inefficient things to avoid or prevent assassination.

A stealth squad of them is expensive but can be fairly effective, especially if you have something else stealthy to include which is synergistic with them.

In some other cases, stealthy units with high protection are good to have, too.

PvK

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by PvK:
Also, against a human, using an occasional bane spider or two may get them paranoid and doing inefficient things to avoid or prevent assassination.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. 5 units bodyguarding every mage is 5 units that aren't being used more effectively. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Sindai:
the Bane Spider is the closest thing the game has to a ninja<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unless you play Potatoman's Ashikaga mod ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Arryn:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Sindai:
the Bane Spider is the closest thing the game has to a ninja<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unless you play Potatoman's Ashikaga mod ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which has great assassins, and quite decent mages. The only thing it doesn't have, is any units capable of standing up to missile fire.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
The only thing it doesn't have, is any units capable of standing up to missile fire. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just remember: anything that nears perfection gets nerfed!

[Taqwus]

*shrug*

It's a fair limitation. Ashikaga isn't a massive powerhouse, especially in the more recent Versions with stats toned down from the original. Their units aren't all that heavily armored, either, IIRC; good but not great. The base morale can be nice (although it might mean greater losses in a bad defeat since they might wait longer to break), and the bows are spiffy.

The Jonin having water magic gives them the unusual ability to be assassins with amphibious capability (so long as they're not feebleminded) in addition to the more obvious quickness; might be the only ones except R'lyeh star children to offer this. Intriguing.

As for Bane Spiders, I have a certain perverse fondness for Bane Spider prophets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif