MP Game - Try Something New

[Zapmeister]

I've started a new game at www.mosehansen.dk (http://www.mosehansen.dk) to be played on the World map with indep=6, hof=15, sites=50, otherwise default.

The 2 house rules, which rely wholly on player honesty as cheating would be impossible to detect, are as follows:

1. This must be your first multiplayer game playing the nation you choose, but there's no problem with practising single-player.

2. You may only play the Vampire Queen if you are a newbie (i.e. this is your first multiplayer game ever) or you're playing Black Forest Ulm.

Also, I'll kick all anonymous players before starting. If you don't already have it, the World map is available from http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/maps.html (I use the Torvak Version, but the standard one should work fine).

Finally, the turnaround is initially 24 hours with quickhost, but that will probably increase once we get into the game.

[ August 07, 2004, 23:58: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Norfleet]

Mmm. Crunchy. Well, Cohen has challenged me to do well with Abysia, after I repeatedly mocked him for failure, and I've honestly never made them work before in MP....and I do so love the World map....so count me in.

[Cohen]

I'll try Caelum.

[ August 05, 2004, 09:54: Message edited by: Cohen ]

[Zapmeister]

In as Pangaea

[Alneyan]

I would be interested in trying to survive as Machaka (trying being the key word I guess).

[Alneyan]

Oops... I picked my nation *before* making a proper Pretender. Is there a way for me to withdraw from the game, and then to make a Pretender whose powers are not limited to "being mocked by her kin and mortals alike"? Thanks!

[Cohen]

Norfleet please save your turns, and send me at game finished ^^

So I can learn how to play better Abysya.

[Agrajag]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Oops... I picked my nation *before* making a proper Pretender. Is there a way for me to withdraw from the game, and then to make a Pretender whose powers are not limited to "being mocked by her kin and mortals alike"? Thanks! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The only way I know of is going annonymous and being kicked by the host (and then rejoining with the new pretender).
I can tell you from expirience that the new pretender won't replace the old and very sucky one >_<

[Alneyan]

Thanks for the tip Agrajag!

[Vicious Love]

Splendiferous. In as C'tis, unless someone objects. Kudos on deciding to start with 24 hour quickhost, then slow things down. It seemed like a great suggestion when it was first brought up, I was wondering why no one seemed inclined to use it.

Update: Edit retracted. Definitely in as C'tis.

[ August 05, 2004, 16:55: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[rabelais]

I'm in as ermor. (shudder!)

This is definitely a first for me.

Rabe the Zombie Master

[rabelais]

Actually, I withdraw from the game.

I just tried an SP test with SG, and my expansion curve isn't very good. I need to practice a bit before sacrificing even the happy (un)dead.

Rabe the Necronewb

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:

1. This must be your first multiplayer game playing the nation you choose, but there's no problem with practising single-player.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First time with the nation, or the theme? Those of us who skip around the various nations might find it difficult to find a nation we haven't played in MP.

( I have ... 2 nations I haven't done MP? No, 3, never did Mictlan. *shudder* )

[vigabrand]

I'd like to try Mictlan. Every game I've been in, they're usually the first to go down. LOL this should be fun.

Vig

[Cainehill]

I'll take R'lyeh while there's still a nation I haven't played MP yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Mark the Merciful]

I'll be Jotunheim

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
First time with the nation, or the theme? Those of us who skip around the various nations might find it difficult to find a nation we haven't played in MP.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First time with the nation. If you've been everywhere and done everything then this game is not for you. My apologies.

[ August 05, 2004, 23:09: Message edited by: Zapmeister ]

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Oops... I picked my nation *before* making a proper Pretender. Is there a way for me to withdraw from the game, and then to make a Pretender whose powers are not limited to "being mocked by her kin and mortals alike"? Thanks! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've just kicked anonymous players which took out Machaka and Mictlan. Vigabrand, you will need to upload your pretender again.

[Grim Knight]

I would be interested in giving it a try with Ulm. So far this will be only the second MP game I have signed up for and that one only a few minutes ago so I have thus far played no turns in MP, only SP.

[Reverend Zombie]

In as Man.

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
In as Man. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're currently anonymous.
Don't forget to claim the position on mosehansen.

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
I'll take R'lyeh while there's still a nation I haven't played MP yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">odd_enuf appears to have gazumped you, taking R'lyeh. You might want to send some persuaders round to his house, since I don't have any powers to enforce your claim.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Cainehill:
I'll take R'lyeh while there's still a nation I haven't played MP yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">odd_enuf appears to have gazumped you, taking R'lyeh. You might want to send some persuaders round to his house, since I don't have any powers to enforce your claim. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Feh. Figures, and nothing said that pretenders were to be claimed here either, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If I convince him to go anonymous, please kick anon and I'll upload.

[ August 06, 2004, 04:54: Message edited by: Cainehill ]

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
If I convince him to go anonymous, please kick anon and I'll upload.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No problem.

[deccan]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I would be interested in trying to survive as Machaka (trying being the key word I guess). <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Cool. When did you start playing Dominions 2?

[Alneyan]

Going in as Tien'Chi as I have lost Machaka after my blunder.

Deccan: While I gave Dominions 2 a try some months ago (a bit after the demo was available), I only bought the game a few days ago, and so I have started playing the game in the past two days. So we are both beginning I gather. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[deccan]

Originally posted by Alneyan:

Deccan: While I gave Dominions 2 a try some months ago (a bit after the demo was available), I only bought the game a few days ago, and so I have started playing the game in the past two days. So we are both beginning I gather. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. I bought the game back in December but for a variety of reasons didn't actually playing until a few days ago.

Hmm, looks like this particular game is full, though three players are anonymous. Next time I guess.

[Alneyan]

Hmm, shouldn't there be enough room for seventeen players? We are "only" eleven as far as I know, with a few nations still left (Arco, Vanheim, Micland, Marignon or Ermor). Or is there a player limit I am not aware of?

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Hmm, shouldn't there be enough room for seventeen players?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed there is - the world is a large map.

At the moment, there are 11 registrations, but 3 are anonymous. If they don't identify themselves on mosehansen by tomorrow morning (my time) I'll kick them to make those nations (Abysia, Man, Pythium) available for others.

[Balmoth]

If there is still room for a new player when I get home from work, I will join up too.

I have only played 4 different nations - so it should be possible to find a spot.

Is renaming allowed? I really hope so, otherwise it's rather annoying with the random mages.

[T77]

If the anonymous guys bail I'll play Man or Pythium. Or if you need extras I'll pick one of the remaining races. I won't sign up on the other site just yet.

[ August 06, 2004, 12:47: Message edited by: T77 ]

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by T77:
If the anonymous guys bail I'll play Man or Pythium. Or if you need extras I'll pick one of the remaining races. I won't sign up on the other site just yet. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've claimed what I think is the Man Pretender spot I loaded Last night.

Assuming Zap has not kicked anonymous since the first time he did, Man is I.

[vigabrand]

I'll re upload and claim position tonight as soon as I get off work. (Mictlan)

Vig

[archaeolept]

not to spread fear or anything ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), but has this world map been gone through to identify #nostart positions? I remember the original world map had a horrific tendency to start land nations on one-province islands. I know norfleet cleaned up his own map, but I really would check out whether the one on mosehansen is good.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by T77:
If the anonymous guys bail I'll play Man or Pythium. Or if you need extras I'll pick one of the remaining races. I won't sign up on the other site just yet. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Pythium can be yours - odd_enuf has relinquished R'lyeh to me, and I'd grabbed Pythium as the only other nation open that I hadn't done in MP.

[Zapmeister]

I have just kicked anonymous for the second time.
We now have 13 players registered and identified.

Originally posted by archaeolept:
not to spread fear or anything ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), but has this world map been gone through to identify #nostart positions? I remember the original world map had a horrific tendency to start land nations on one-province islands. I know norfleet cleaned up his own map, but I really would check out whether the one on mosehansen is good. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, I didn't think of that. The map file was copied straight from Illwinter's site, Torvak's Version (i.e. world3.zip)

Archaeolept, would you be willing to give it the once-over? If you do, and you change anything, you could forward it to me (to avoid claims you might have favoured your own nation) and I'll upload the new Version.

[T77]

OK I'll play Pythium. I've never played through that site. Do I join there (didn't see an option to) or through the game?

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by T77:
OK I'll play Pythium. I've never played through that site. Do I join there (didn't see an option to) or through the game? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Upload your pretender by connecting with Dominions to dom2.mosehansen.dk at the port specified on the game page.

Then go back to the game page, check That's Me, and Submit.

[T77]

Thanks Zap, I'll do it in a little while, just got in from work.

[archaeolept]

zap, just ask norfleet for a copy of his cleaned up world map. he's in this game isn't he?

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by archaeolept:
zap, just ask norfleet for a copy of his cleaned up world map. he's in this game isn't he? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He claimed Abysia in the thread, but the only Abysian registration was anonymous (and kicked).

Norfleet, if you're reading this, can I have a copy of your mapfile ?

[deccan]

Sorry, Alneyan, but I'm still out. The map file is just too big. 30 megs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif That's a lot for someone on dial-up and remember this is middle-of-nowhere Solomon Islands I'm in.

[Vicious Love]

Hope no one minds a switch this late in the pre-game, but I've decided to go Ermor.
I actually think better of my chances of surviving with C'tis, but I was really looking forward to trying Ermor out in Ye Olde Dom 2 Game*.
C'tis has gone anonymous. Grand Funk, Father of Gods, He Who is at the Center, the Serpent Mind, the Fountainhead of Order, Prince of Civilization, the Groove, is dead, but still hardcore.

*Last time I forget to check md5sums after updating a pretender.

[T77]

I'd actually prefer C'tis if no one claims it.

[ August 06, 2004, 12:47: Message edited by: T77 ]

[Wyxard]

I'm in as Vanheim
I am using the torvak map (world3) is this the right one?
any rules? like clams, etc
thanks

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Wyxard:
I'm in as Vanheim
I am using the torvak map (world3) is this the right one?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep

Originally posted by Wyxard:
any rules? like clams, etc
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only regarding your choice of nation and pretender. See the first post in this thread.

[Zapmeister]

I bit the bullet and reworked the mapfile myself, adding nostart lines for all islands with zero or one adjacent land provinces. I'm not 100% sure I found them all, though. Here's the province numbers I nostarted:

10, 11, 13, 37, 42, 59, 125, 129, 192, 307, 333, 334

However, my home connection just isn't up the the job of uploading the 18 Mb package (you have to upload the .tga file at the same time, and it's 99% of the total file size).

If someone with a faster connection wants to make these changes and upload the file, that would be super. Otherwise, I'll mail the mapfile (without the .tga) to Esben, and ask him to install it manually.

[Cainehill]

I'm busy working on my R'lyeh pretender - if I'm the Last one and the game is waiting on me, let me know and I'll upload tonight, or tomorrow morning. When are y'all aiming for the game start?

[Zapmeister]

I hope to start the game in 24 hours and 40 minutes from the time of this post, subject to getting the mapfile issue sorted by then.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
I hope to start the game in 24 hours and 40 minutes from the time of this post, subject to getting the mapfile issue sorted by then. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sound good - I'll have a pretender in by this time tomorrow then. It's taking quite a bit of time and experimentation, because water nations (and R'lyeh especially) are so different from land nations, and I haven't even done R'lyeh SP before.

[Soapyfrog]

Ah WHOOPS. I uploaded a Ryleh pretender before checking back with the thread.

Seeing as you reserved it I have marked it anonymous again and Zap can feel free to kick it...

Sorry about the confusion.

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Soapyfrog:
Seeing as you reserved it I have marked it anonymous again and Zap can feel free to kick it...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Kicked.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Soapyfrog:
Ah WHOOPS. I uploaded a Ryleh pretender before checking back with the thread.

Seeing as you reserved it I have marked it anonymous again and Zap can feel free to kick it...

Sorry about the confusion. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry, and thanks. There's still C'tis and ... Wow. Abysia left. If you haven't played one of them - they're both solid. ( I _so_ wish it'd show what nations hadn't been picked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Hope you can get in as one of them, if you haven't played them yet. (His rules, not mine.)

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
There's still C'tis and ... Wow. Abysia left. If you haven't played one of them - they're both solid. ( I _so_ wish it'd show what nations hadn't been picked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Hope you can get in as one of them, if you haven't played them yet. (His rules, not mine.) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And there may be a bit more time to claim them. In my talks with Mose re getting the corrected mapfile installed, it has emerged that there are no world.* files on the server. Perhaps I trashed them with my aborted upload.

Anyway, Mose has said he'll re-install the whole thing manually, but I haven't heard back from him and, obviously, I don't want to start the game until I do.

When I'm confident that everything's set up OK, we'll begin.

[Cainehill]

Any idea of a new updated started time? I don't want to revise my S9W9F9 pretender until I've probably tested, so - perhaps a new updated projected start time for people to aim for?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Wow. Abysia left. If you haven't played one of them - they're both solid. ( I _so_ wish it'd show what nations hadn't been picked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Abysia's not left, I called them at the beginning of the thread. Coulda sworn I uploaded already.....meh.

[Norfleet]

dp

[ August 07, 2004, 23:39: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Abysia's not left, I called them at the beginning of the thread. Coulda sworn I uploaded already.....meh.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's been 2 anonymous kickings, one of which caught an anonymous Abysian registration.

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Any idea of a new updated started time? I don't want to revise my S9W9F9 pretender until I've probably tested, so - perhaps a new updated projected start time for people to aim for? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Four hours and 15 minutes from the time of this post, or when I hear from Mose, whichever is later.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Norfleet:
Abysia's not left, I called them at the beginning of the thread. Coulda sworn I uploaded already.....meh.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's been 2 anonymous kickings, one of which caught an anonymous Abysian registration. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And I do recall where Norf claimed Abysia, saying it was because coHen was griping about the nation sucking so much.

A shame - Cohen as Pythium/Ermor/Arco is so much like the saran-wrap map of those natinos. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
A shame - Cohen as Pythium/Ermor/Arco is so much like the saran-wrap map of those natinos. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't really know what this means, but I assume it's more Cohen-bashing. C'mon guys - isn't it time to give the poor guy a break ?

[ August 07, 2004, 23:51: Message edited by: Zapmeister ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Cainehill:
A shame - Cohen as Pythium/Ermor/Arco is so much like the saran-wrap map of those natinos. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't really know what this means, but I assume it's more Cohen-bashing. C'mon guys - isn't it time to give the poor guy a break ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Charlie Manson hasn't killed any blondes lately either - should we give him a break too? Baby Bush - he hasn't killed any GIs in 9 hours - we should lay off him?

Okay, sorry, "Great news! If you start next to Cohen and destroy his first army or kill his pretender, you have a _real_ good chance of going against an AI there, so do your best!"

"People who had treaties or alliances with Cohen - sorry, but his happiness ended, and so did your treaties. Rough Luck, but that's what happens with coHen."

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Cainehill:
Charlie Manson hasn't killed any blondes lately either - should we give him a break too?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that would depend entirely on how his rehabilitation is going. In other words, I wouldn't be prepared to damn Mr Manson, Cohen or anyone else for life without reviewing the case from time to time.

Cohen does seem to be behaving better lately. In the one game I'm in with him, I know he's been in decline for some turns now, but still fighting (possibly even making a comeback).

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
I think that would depend entirely on how his rehabilitation is going. In other words, I wouldn't be prepared to damn Mr Manson, Cohen or anyone else for life without reviewing the case from time to time.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The fact remains that Cohen has been known to do this, and he has not refrained from doing so for a long enough time to entirely shrug off the reputation. Personally, I take a somewhat more tongue-and-cheek view of the matter. Maybe we should organize a deadpool on which turn Cohen goes AI. Everyone contributes, say, 150 gold to the deadpool, winner takes all.

[Zapmeister]

I'm not sure what the time is in Denmark, but I'm guessing that Esben has gone to bed. If so, we won't be starting before he gets up again, perhaps in eight hours or so.

[Norfleet]

Hey, uh, since we haven't started yet, could you do an anon-kick on me? I want to upload a new draft on my pretender, since I discovered that I forgot something important in the first one I whipped up.

[Zapmeister]

Hey, uh, since we haven't started yet, could you do an anon-kick on me? I want to upload a new draft on my pretender, since I discovered that I forgot something important in the first one I whipped up.



Done.

[Norfleet]

Excellent. Reuploaded. Given that it feels like I'm about ready to rupture a blood vessel, I think I'm going to lay off the next caffeine hit. Don't start the game without me!

[Norfleet]

Effectively immediately, I am terminating my involvement in Dominions II for obvious reasons. I have anon'ed the slot. Kick me from the game and declare the slot open.

[Cohen]

Thx Zap ^^
I appreciate your effort.

However in Faerun Folly the 2 dead nations (ermor and pangea) are winning ...
This turn Pangea slaughtered my army ... laughing in fron of a barrage fire of 6 mixed inquisitors and 27 Goetik Masters casting holy pyre ...

[Zapmeister]

However in Faerun Folly the 2 dead nations (ermor and pangea) are winning ...
This turn Pangea slaughtered my army ... laughing in fron of a barrage fire of 6 mixed inquisitors and 27 Goetik Masters casting holy pyre ...



You appear to have recaptured Pythium, though, and Ermor is under attack from Man.

[Cohen]

True, but I've lost the army that took Pythium, so I'm going to re lose it soon, even if I'm putting toghether a small defence force.

[Zapmeister]

The game is stalled - unable to start due to some problem on the server. I'm currently waiting on word from Esben.

Also, we're down to 15 players following Norfleet's abrupt departure. Anyone who has never played Abysia or C'tis in a multiplayer game is welcome to join.

[Zapmeister]

The game has started

The problem was permissions on the world.* files.

Good luck everybody!

[Mark the Merciful]

&lt;grumble&gt;

It would have been nice to hold the game until everyone got the message - especially as people have been having trouble with the new forums. I didn't see this until today, and it's always frustrating to miss the first turn.

&lt;/grumble&gt;

[Wyxard]

I beleive the game is hung
it froze on me this morning, and now the timer is not advancing (hosting in 1440 stays the same)
we may need to jumpstart it

[Zapmeister]

Seems to be OK now.

[Mark the Merciful]

Zap, I think it needs another restart.

Mark

[Mark the Merciful]

I don't know; did the game get restarted? I briefly had a connection, foolishly disconnected to do something else before I did my turn, and now once again cannot connect.

Grr.

[Mark the Merciful]

And then, having posted that, I connected. And my guess is that Zap can't have been repeatedly resetting, because I'd have thought it was sleepy time in Oz right now. Odd.

[Vicious Love]

Have had the samr problem myself, though just once, and only for a few minutes. Doesn't seem to be worth a restart, unless it's much, much worse on your end of things.

[Wyxard]

I am also unable to do my turn
I was briefly able to connect, then my 3 yr old hit the disconnect button on my wireless internet,
now I can no longer connect
If we can restart, that would be helpful, it will throw off the game if some people get to do this turn, and others don't

[Wyxard]

(clarification: by restart, I mean this turn, not the entire game)

[Cainehill]

Y'all might want to try just reconnecting several times, if you haven't already. Network congestion, or the server being busy doing something else, with the game process swapped out of memory, might be causing intermittent 'outages'. Fifteen minutes later, it might be just fine,
while a restart will wipe out the orders anyone has uploaded already.

[Wyxard]

I don't think it is network congestion, etc, cause all my other games load just fine.
I have been trying to load all day, and briefly got on, then lost it, all the other times, my whole system locks up requiring a hard reboot. something is wrong with the master game file
I think it is better for some people to have to redo their turns, then for some people to lose a turn completely, which will unbalance the game.

[Cainehill]

Wyxard said:
I don't think it is network congestion, etc, cause all my other games load just fine.
I have been trying to load all day, and briefly got on, then lost it, all the other times, my whole system locks up requiring a hard reboot. something is wrong with the master game file
I think it is better for some people to have to redo their turns, then for some people to lose a turn completely, which will unbalance the game.



Which ignores the fact that restarting the game can cause people to lose their turn. If the ones who already uploaded their turns don't know the game was restarted, they're likely to get a stale turn because they don't know they need to reconnect and upload their turn again.

I'm not saying that there isn't a need to restart the games sometimes, like now. But all too often, people start asking for the game to be restarted because they have a single failure to connect and don't even try a second or third time.

[Wyxard]

your point is well taken,
I finally got in, and it looks like most people have as well
if there isn't anyone having anymore trouble, I see no need to restart the turn

[vigabrand]

Actually, I've been having troubles getting on for the Last two nights. First with another game and now with this one. I'll keep trying, but it looks like this problem might be widespread.

Vig

[Wyxard]

I finally got in Last turn, only to have the same problem this turn, I can't get in
What gives? is there a corrupted file? my other games run fine.
if people continue to have trouble doing their turns, then the game is obviously trashed
maybe someone could ask Mose if he knows anything about it?
good luck, I'll keep trying

[Zapmeister]

Wyxard said:
if people continue to have trouble doing their turns, then the game is obviously trashed




No, this is quite common on the Mosehansen server after a game has been running awhile without a restart. The fix is to restart the game, but when you do that you lose all orders submitted for the current turn.

Next time the turn runs at a time I'm awake, I'll restart it.

[Vicious Love]

Retracted, false bug report. Move along.

[Balmoth]

Hi all
I am going to get another player to take over Atlantis. the reason for this is that I cannot mobilize any motivation to play Atlantis. I cannot place a finger to what it is, but it is definately making me take less time on my turns than in any other game. And I don't have a long term strategy, which I usually have as well. So to make sure that Atlantis gets the attention it needs, and that Ryleh gets a little competition at sea, I will try finding a player who's more dedicatet than I.
regards
René

[Cainehill]

I'd like to suggest that this might be a good time to move to a 48QH schedule. I think we've definately gotten into the point where it's nice to be able to take some time with the turns, and it was originally suggested that the pace would slow down from 24 as we got into the game.

[Balmoth]

I have gotten a replacement player for Atlantis. Soapyfrog will take over now.
I hope you will all have a fun game.

regards
René

[Soapyfrog]

I am in as Atlantis. 48QH would be fine by me.

[Zapmeister]

The game is now 48hrs QH.

I'm not sure whether or not this change will have the side-effect of upgrading from 2.12 to 2.14 (?)

[Mark the Merciful]

Is anybody else having trouble? I've been unable to connect for the Last 18 hours, and haven't submitted a turn.

[Cainehill]

Not responding for me either - probably needs a restart.

Incidentally, you haven't taken a turn in Fat Obstreperous Jerks in even longer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

Zapmeister - the game is stopped right now, which is probably why Mark can't get in.

[Cohen]

Game isn't shown in the running ones.
And now that the game slots have been reduced to 15 slots, we should wait a lot before it get restarted unless Mose intervenes.

[Mark the Merciful]

I don't imagine Zap is checking here all that often. He did, after all, say he was publically getting out of DomII. I'll post a note to Esben.

[Cohen]

You need to mail to Esben.
He's not reading the PM here anymore, nor the board.

[Cainehill]

I emailed Esben this morning - the game is up and running again, ownership changed to me since Zap isn't around.

[Cohen]

Good ^^

[Wyxard]

For the second time this game I have won a battle, but the computer doesn't give me the victory

earlier, I beat an AI random event, he fled, but on the main map, he still held the province and I lost my men/leaders

now, I had a leader wind rided to another province, he killed most of the defenders, and the others fled, and yet the enemy still controls the province and my leader is nowhere to be found, (he has stealth as well).
the main board shows a battle took place and I watched it 3 times, and the enemy definitely fled and it said they routed and my man was still persuing when the film ended,
yet he is gone and they still have the province

anyone have any ideas? is this a bug or am I missing something?

Wyxard/Vanheim

[Daynarr]

It's battle incosistency. The question is - is everyone using same game Version?

[Soapyfrog]

Different dom2 Version?

[Daynarr]

Yeah. Different Versions can cause it.

[Cainehill]

Unless I'm mistaken, the game is running on 2.14, so any of the older Versions would give the hallucinatory battle replays.

Regarding Vanheim's problem with Wind Ride - perhaps it's being cast on a province without enemy commanders, or where the enemy commanders have stealth, Earth magic, etherealness, or large size.

And - we have a new turn run!

[Wyxard]

please see thread "routing bug"
as this has happened again, on a much larger scale
again against pythium
In the message I lost 12 of 13 leaders(including 2 sea trolls, wraith lord, bane lord, Djinn, 4 high exp Vans, etc)(all full of magic items, rune smashers, incinerate rods, spell focus, etc)
in the film I only lost 2 of 13.

In the film he lost most of his leaders, including both Air Queens, most of his theugs, (8 of 13 theugs died in my initial blade wind alone) yet on the message it says he only lost 2 leaders IN THE ENTIRE BATTLE?!?!? and he kept the province.

this is Way too much of a discrepancy in my opinion to be attributed to different Versions or different algorithm results. In the film I smashed him. It made the game unplayable for me to spend that much time and resources only to see them evaporate by what seems like a bug.

Wyxard

PS- My wind ride also failed 3 times against Pythium, not that I am implying he is cheating, rather that the bug may involve pythium

[Wyxard]

I was still running 2.12 as I didn't recieve an in game message or see one here that it had upgraded to 2.14
(above, when switched to 48 hours, he questions whether we upgraded)
so I guess this could result in the discrepancy, although my question now is, if I had the correct Version, would I have won on the main computer as well? ie did I see a valid film of how it should have basically panned out since my computer had all the data concerning the armies on both sides and somehow with the different Versions, my armies data was sent to the host incorrectly, so it ran the battle with erroneous data on my army, or would the patch have swung the battle completely the other way? and I think former is probably correct, since it is hard to see how I could have won one by so much and lost the other by so much.
so I guess I got screwed by not having the same Version running (since noone said anything)

Wyxard

[Cainehill]

There was a number of Posts in this thread suggesting that your problem was the incorrect dominions Version, including mine on the 18th where I said I was pretty sure it was running 2.14, so it's not like you couldn't / shouldn't have known.

But no - you still wouldn't have won, because the server calculates the battle results. What you would have seen was the actual way the battle had proceeded, so you could see exactly what happened and what led to the destruction of your army - spell targeting differences that might have led to huge quick changes in how many mages were left, a charm spell that nailed your best commander, etc.

[Soapyfrog]

Precisely. The replay was wrong. Even such changes as the burning pearl going from 100% to 50% fire resistance would ahve a fairly significant impact on battle outcomes for example.

[Wyxard]

i still think it was waaaay different, I can't see how a few changes from a patch could have completely changed a battle outcome that wasn't even close. if it was close, i could understand, but all the way one side to all the way the other??? this means it completely nerfed all my commanders, and made all his 100x stronger? unlikely,
more likely it disrupted the data set, so it calculated the battle using incorrect info for my army. my film used old Version data, and got a more realistic result. if the patch did change the strength of his theugs, and air queens, then it made them much to powerful. if you saw the film, and knew the armies, I hope you would agree, again, it wasn't even close, I slaughtered him, and didn't lose any leaders, or maybe a few to him losing all? if one item can change this result that much, it is unbalancing.
it is my fault for not having the correct Version, but I beleive you said in the earlier post you "thought" we were playing the new patch. it would be nice to let everyone know officially in the game and out here in the forums if something like this changes, especially if, as you say, it makes this much difference in battles
Wyxard

[Cainehill]

No, Wyxard. It doesn't even need an item or spell that changed from Version to Version for the replay to be completely, 100% different. Think of it in terms of a dice game, where what you saw was the result of one set of random dice rolls, instead of a different set of dice rolls.

If a Charm spell was cast on one of your leaders on the first round, and one dice roll meant it was successful, and another dice roll meant it wasn't, that can _totally_ change the battle results, especially given somewhat retarded spell casting AI.

For instance - I've seen one of my mages get charmed. Oops - one of my other mages is scripted to cast Blade Wind, and casts it on the charmed mage who is in the middle of my other mages. There goes 9 or so mages, just like that. If the charm spell hadn't been successful, the blade wind would have been cast elsewhere, and I wouldn't have lost 9 mages right away.

Or think in terms of the Japanese game Pachinko. Hey - it's the exact same playing board, the same pins, the same size ball, but the result is completely different each time.

[Wyxard]

While theoretically posible, this seeems highly unlikely and I believe players would not stand for this much "swing" in an individual battle, the game would be vertually unplayable. you are implying that the change meant that I went from killing 8 theug in the first blade wind to 2 total leaders in the entire battle? that would require me to have gone from normal roles killing half (as it statistically should be, given their lack of armor) to rolling like all 2's for every role for most of the battle.
while statistically possible, given the number of men/leaders, and number of roles, I should have killed a lot more. the Data had to be corrupted/altered.
again, statistically, given enough time and monkeys, you can get a monkey to type the complete works of william shakespear, but this is not likeley, nor would people play a game relying on one to do so.
if you imply that a "simple" change can alter a Major battle this much (it wasn't even close) then that would unbalance the game and make it unplayable for how could you plan offensives? with all these roles, by the law of averages, the battles should play out essentially the same with a few leaders/ men killed one way or the other, but a much stronger army will eventually win due to the numbers.

Wyxard

PS- speaking to some of the other players, they were/are also not aware that the game had been undated to 2.14, since the only reference said we may playing the new Version, but noone said officially (in game or forum) that we all should upgrade, so many like myself simply stayed with the old Version 2.12

[Cainehill]

You weren't aware? What part of, "Unless I'm mistaken, the game is running on 2.14, so any of the older Versions would give the hallucinatory battle replays" didn't you understand? That was posted on the 18th, the same day you first started complaining about strange battle results. If nothing else, a reasonably bright person would have _tried_ looking at the battle results with Version 2.14 to see if it matched the actual outcome.

And you don't think players would stand for that much swing? Guess what - obviously they do. You fought Pythium - I'm guessing you attacked him. The _VERY FIRST THING_ that would happen is his spells - soul slays, enslave minds, things that could have killed, charmed, or temporarily incapicitated some of your mages. That totally changes the results of the entire battle.

It's just like when you have a squad of 30 troops with decent morale, and 10 bloody archers shoot, not killing any of them. 90% of the time the squad keeps going. 10% of the time, the squad routs without taking any casualties, completely changing the outcome of the battle.

In Dungeons and Dragons terms, it's like 1st level characters attacking 10 goblins. If one of the goblins gets lucky and hits the 4 HP magic user with an arrow, the magic user goes unconscious, doesn't cast the sleep spell that would have knocked most or all of the goblins unconscious, and so a good part of the party dies. If the arrow missed or hit someone else, the sleep spell would have gone off and the battle would have been a smashing success.

According to you this would be "too much swing" and players would never put up with such a game. Sheesh.

[Wyxard]

first, I agree in small terms, such a squad of archers, or a 1st level man attacking a level 10 man, this is a simple swing of one event, but an entire battle is different, this is too much to accept, especially when his mages are low level, not casting the spells you mention above - tho I did have high level mages casting similar spells you mention above (see reference to monkeys above and discussion below)
as for reasonable bright person, I guess you are saying that a lot of the other players in the game are equally not bright, since others are still playing the old Version, since there was no ingame announcement.
(and I was unaware that the different Versions resulting in the battle changes until after this whole discussion began, in the future, I would check that)

please see copy of post to Routing Bug for more theories below

ok...

I upgraded and watched the battle with the new Version.
the battle did come out as the message said, with the altered ending, BUT, that is because the orders were changed, (which I know because with the old Version, my orders were mostly carried out)and the die roles went very askew .
the updated Version film had all my mass protected trolls, (30) just standing around, not even attacking, getting hit over and over with stellar castcades, and my iron dragons didn't even move for almost the entire battle, just sat there and did nothing, and my spell casting was comletely screwed up. (again, in the first Version, they all moved as ordered, so something deleted their orders)
now I understand that the AI sometimes changes things, but in my Version most went as planned, in this Version a whole lot of leaders/men just sat around getting slaughtered, and very few of my scripted spells were cast.
still, with 40 or so crossbow with flaming arrow, wind guide, relief, and arrow fend, I should have done a lot more damage than the "updated" Version showed.

so... I believe the Dom 2 web site should say using different Versions may "incorrectly" change the results of a battle due to Data Alteration, resulting in a different film , not just that the film may be different. the new film definitely had something wrong with it - hence the completely unbelievable/unlikely/incorrect result

Wyxard

anyway, I am tired of this discussion, as you seem to be getting emotional and making personal attacks.
If it really was just bad luck those times that a 90% victory with 100+ large creatures/men and 13 mostly high level leaders full of magic items went to a total loss, then so be it. but my personal opinion is that the different Versions of the game resulted in incorrect data and incorrect/impossible results, not just a different possbile result/film.

[Wyxard]

after upgrading to 2.14 I watched the new film that correlates with the server results. The battle runs completely differently than my film using 2.12
Most of my commands are changed, unlike in the 2.12 Version where they are mostly carried out (with the normal variations of the AI), in the 2.14 Version, large Groups of men/trolls just stand around getting slaughtered by spells, not engaging, my iron dragons just sit and do nothing until attacked at the end, my spell casters don't do a whole lot,and when they do cast spells, the are mostly ineffective, essentially it looks like something is wrong, not just a different plausible variation running with different die roles. I can email the turn to anyone that wants to view it under both Versions, as there is a huge difference.
my email is Wyxarddom2@yahoo.com
I will also try and email the turn to Ilwinter
Thanks for everyones input
Wyxard

[Soapyfrog]

Possible orders/scripts issued under 2.12 do not process properly on the 2.14 server? Sounds like SOMETHING is borked!

[Cainehill]

Who can believe it? Cohen went AI!?!?

[Soapyfrog]

Heheh, truly... the most powerful nation in the game goes AI, that sure throws a spanner in the works!

Yeash. A lot of AIs in the mix now.

[Cainehill]

And Mark the @#$@#, er, Merciless, who just killed a game by staling for over 10 turns, has started staling in this game.

May I suggest that we all, us few non-AI nations, attempt to wipe him out quickly? It's better than just one or two nations doing the gobbling, as happened in For Whom The Bell Tolls (where the player who gobbled Mark's nation started to hate the game and quit).

Myself, I'm rather busy dealing with the remains of Cohen (who, I'd never thought I'd say this, at least had the good grace to go AI) and Ulm, who has wreaked the wrath of the oceans by attacking both R'lyeh and Atlantis at the same time, so I won't profit much therein.

War on the game-defilers, I say!!!!

[Soapyfrog]

Hmm I dont border with him, but I will do what I can...

[Cainehill]

There's only five of us left, and while no one has asked for it, I'm going to slow the game down for the holidays after today's turn - something like 96 or 120 hour QH. If there are objections I can set it back, but I figure it's good to make it easier for everyone to fit the game into their holiday schedule.

[Soapyfrog]

No problems here!

[T77]

I have no objection. Did we upgrade to the latest patch?

[Cainehill]

Good question - not sure if Esben has patched the executable there. I can't think of anything critical in this latest patch that's game altering (like the one where you couldn't have 2 fever fetishes or 2 clams on the same person) though.

[T77]

OK, whatever Version you guys want to use is fine with me. I just wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page. Vanheim quit when I was battling him due to replay inconsistency.

[Cainehill]

Isn't a question of what we want to use - Esben hasn't upgraded to 2.15, at least not according to what the notes there say. So we're at 2.14, albeit I always recommend trying the other Version if you get a really strange battle result / playback.

[Cainehill]

This game is basically over - I've asked Esben to kill and bury it. At this point, there's only two nations left not gone AI, and Mark the Merciful hasn't taken a turn as Jotunheim in 15 or 20 turns.

Guess that makes my first huge scale game I've won ( World map; by the time everyone was demolished or quit (Atlantis was running a close second in some ways, using multiple Wish spells a turn for territory, but that only takes provinces that don't have fortresses, near as I can tell) I had the highest provinces, forts, gem income, and by far the highest dominion and army size), in my first game with R'lyeh.

[quantum_mechani]

Cainehill said:
(Atlantis was running a close second in some ways, using multiple Wish spells a turn for territory, but that only takes provinces that don't have fortresses, near as I can tell)

Actually, it can take forted provinces. It was the only way I ever managed to take provinces from Norfleet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

quantum_mechani said:

Cainehill said:
(Atlantis was running a close second in some ways, using multiple Wish spells a turn for territory, but that only takes provinces that don't have fortresses, near as I can tell)

Actually, it can take forted provinces. It was the only way I ever managed to take provinces from Norfleet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Really? Atlantis had as many as 3 or 4 of those wishes a turn towards the end, and never took a province of mine that had a fort in it. So - I'd take about 4 or 5 provinces a turn, and use spells to get fortresses in all of them right away ( using Living Fortress, Wizard Tower, and Three Red Seconds ).

R'lyeh isn't usually a big blood nation - but finding a province with the Summoning Circle ( 60 blood bonus ) next to my capitol, and one with the Black Tower ( cheap D1B1 and D2B2 ) also nearby really helped. Using a Void Lurker pretender for great starting magic and bringing him back mobile via Twiceborn didn't hurt either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Soapyfrog]

I was wishing as much as 7 times a turn... As near as I can tell, Wishing for territory can convert to your ownership any province that does not contain enemy units. So it worked great the first few turns and then after that it was pretty much useless.

AND THEN! I pulled the biggest bonehead of them all. I really cannot beleive I did this... I wished for Armageddon. Naturally I assumed my beefy mages would be tough enough to survive and everyone else's mages would die in large numbers. taht turned out not to be the case, and I suddenly found that I had killed off my own wisher's, massacred my own clam/fetish/contract farms, and killed my very well equipped mages in large numbers.

I have no idea how it affected the rest of you, but I was basically defenceless after that point...

Heheh. Ouch.

[Cainehill]

Heh. Is that what happened? It didn't really affect me much; certainly none of my wishers died, and I didn't notice losing anyone else significant - not even my "normal" mages who all had 20 HPs because of GoH, nor my farms, most of which had 36 HPs.

Had you wished for Power on your mages, the one that grants like +10 to each stat, and lots of extra HPs? First thing I ever do, just to protect the investment. Then Twiceborn after the first wish for magic power, so as long as they die in friendly territory they come back once.

And, I was empowering pretty beefy mages to begin with - Golems, Ether Lords, Wight Mage (reborn) pretender, the Aboleth hero, a few Stargazers. So nothing under a base 25 or 27 HPs.

Heh. Armageddoning yourself out of the running.... I had wondered what you'd done that you felt you'd thrown the game, couldn't think of anything much unless maybe you'd blown your astral gems &amp; didn't have a big income.

Good game - I'm pretty sure I was going to win against you (bigger gem income, bigger commanders (lots of GoHed / healed tartarians, ice devils, most of the archdevils, empowered Juggernauts, Abominations, and Tarrasque that could self-buff almost every major spell) but figured it'd be a long grind.

[Soapyfrog]

Oh yeah I didnt think it likely I could beat you. Maybe i just should have summoned and endless stream of doom horrors... certainly would have made it tougher on you imagine!