MP Game - Live and Learn (newbie game)-running

[Thufir]

mosehansen.dk port 2289

Karan map, Indy 8, magic sites 50
renaming enabled, HOF 15
25 hour quickhost
6-8 players

House rules: no caelum

Victory conditions - standard or mutual consent

I'm not sure how best to define "newbie", but after getting thrashed my first MP game by turn 30, I'm sure that I am one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Anyhow, I'll be happy to leave it up to everyone's self determination as to whether they're a newbie or not - after all there's no honor in a veteran whupping a bunch of noobs anyhow.

It's likely too late to get this started by this weekend (but I'd love to be proven wrong!), but I'll be ready to start this once we get six+ players. It'd be great if we can get first 10+ turns knocked out quickly, if we can all agree on a time.

I was thinking I'd like to play Abysia or Pythium, but I'll let at least a few players pick, before I upload.


For all those who haven't used Esben Mosehansen's most awesome game server previously, all you have to do to get started in the game is the following:
1) Design your Pretender standalone
2) On the main/entry Dom2 menu, choose Network
3) Enter "mosehansen.dk" for server
4) Enter "2289" for port
5) Choose the nation for the Pretender which you have designed. (I forget the exact sequence of choices in the UI, but it's pretty obvious)
6) In a browser go to:
https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl?page=BrowseGamePage&game=Live_and_Learn

If you've successfully uploaded your pretender, you'll see your nation listed as Anonymous, check the "That's me" box. (Again, I forget the exact UI details, but again it's obvious.)

That's it - you're done! Once all players have done this, I'll start the game.

Edit-

Final Player List:
FM_Surrigon - Machaka
YellowCactus - Mictlan
bleach168 - Abysia
Thufir - Pythium
J Henry Waugh - Arcosephale
Yvelina - Vanheim
Cheezeninja - Jotunheim
Schmoe - C'tis

[bleach168]

Hi! I'm in as Abysia. First time playing multiplayer!

Be gentle! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Stossel]

I'll play as Machaka

[J Henry Waugh]

I'll take Arco.

First timer (at MP) here too...

[KroolDeath]

Thufir,

I take it Abysia did a number on you, eh?

The rest of us were impressed with your courage though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Krool

[Thufir]

Cool, we're up to 4 already - maybe we can get started this weekend! I'll take Pythium, which means so far:

bleach168 - Abysia
FM_Surrigon - Machaka
J Henry Waugh - Arcosephale
Thufir - Pythium

[J Henry Waugh]

Won't be home until late tonight (PST, and have meeting scheduled afterwork), but can upload pretender when I get home...

[Yvelina]

I would like to play Vanheim. I am not sure whether I qualify as a newbie. I have never been among the top three of any game I have played, does this count? I have played three or four MP games, though.

If you think it is Ok, I would like to play Vanheim.

And I am curious, why do you forbid Caelum? Jotunheim and Vanheim have no problem dealing with Caelum, and other races have their strengths as well :-)

[Thufir]

I take it Abysia did a number on you, eh?




You could say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif



The rest of us were impressed with your courage though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




I might have used the word "foolhardiness" rather than "courage" (but thanks for not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

It's a long story, but my starting position was pretty jammed between Abysia and Atlantis, and I thought time was against me, hence the early assault. I'm still not sure - but I was thinking that even a veteran playing to win might have made the same choice I did. One thing is for sure though, 10 players is too many for the Karan map.

[Cheezeninja]

i'll take jotunheim... I've played about 5 mp games, nothing but swift thrashings so far though.

[Thufir]

I would like to play Vanheim. I am not sure whether I qualify as a newbie. I have never been among the top three of any game I have played, does this count? I have played three or four MP games, though.

If you think it is Ok, I would like to play Vanheim.




Sure - welcome in!




And I am curious, why do you forbid Caelum? Jotunheim and Vanheim have no problem dealing with Caelum, and other races have their strengths as well :-)



I'm not dead set on it, and partly it's just legacy - I'm copying a game setup Archaeolept did for my first game (with a few simplifications). But the reason for my preference is that Caelum's presence forces all players encountering them to defend in depth, which is a considerable complication when working out your defensive strategies. I know that any nation can summon/create some amount of flying forces (and Atlantis, Vanheim and Ryleh all handle oceans much better than the rest - yielding a similar effect), but AFAIK, no other nation has near the same degree of airborne troops. So, I'm thinking it'll be easier to learn the basics of Dom2, if we don't have to concern ourselves (as much) with defending in depth.

[Thufir]

i'll take jotunheim... I've played about 5 mp games, nothing but swift thrashings so far though.



Having only experienced swift thrashings definitely qualifies you for this game!!!

We're already up to six, so we should be able to get this started tomorrow. Here's our current positions:

bleach168 - Abysia
FM_Surrigon - Machaka
J Henry Waugh - Arcosephale
Thufir - Pythium
Cheezeninja - Jotunheim
Yvelina - Vanheim

[Schmoe]

i'll take jotunheim... I've played about 5 mp games, nothing but swift thrashings so far though.



Having only experienced swift thrashings definitely qualifies you for this game!!!

We're already up to six, so we should be able to get this started tomorrow. Here's our current positions:

bleach168 - Abysia
FM_Surrigon - Machaka
J Henry Waugh - Arcosephale
Thufir - Pythium
Cheezeninja - Jotunheim
Yvelina - Vanheim



Is there any room for another? I'd like to get in, perhaps as C'tis. I've played one MP game, all newbies, and I was the second one eliminated. Urgh. I'll be out of town next weekend, though. Is there any chance of changing to 48 hour quickhost?

[YellowCactus]

Me too! Me Too! Mictlan
-YellowCactus

[Thufir]

Is there any room for another?


I'd like to get in, perhaps as C'tis.




Sure - no problem!




I've played one MP game, all newbies, and I was the second one eliminated. Urgh.



FWIW, you did better in your first game than I seem to be doing in mine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




I'll be out of town next weekend, though. Is there any chance of changing to 48 hour quickhost?



Well, not as a general rule, at least for the first 30+ turns it'd be good to stick to 25h QH. For next weekend, we can make an exception if we need to, but the best thing would be if you could find someone to play for you. As I understand it, turns take quite a long time later in the game, but it's unlikely we'll be that far along by next weekend.

Nonetheless, we should be able to run a bunch of the "easy" turns this weekend so hopefully we'll be well along into the game by next weekend.

[Thufir]

It's a wrap, barring anyone backing out we have our 8 players:


bleach168 - Abysia
FM_Surrigon - Machaka
J Henry Waugh - Arcosephale
Thufir - Pythium
Cheezeninja - Jotunheim
Yvelina - Vanheim
YellowCactus - Mictlan
Schmoe - C'tis


If everyone can get their pretender uploaded tonight, then I'll have the game started by tomorrow morning.

Good luck all!

Thufir

[Schmoe]

Alright, I'm in as C'tis. Should be fun - I'm going to try not to make the same mistakes I made Last time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Schmoe]

Alright, I'm in as C'tis. Should be fun - I'm going to try not to make the same mistakes I made Last time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Whoops! I forgot to put a password on my Pretender. Can you please kick me, and I'll re-upload. Sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Thufir]

Whoops! I forgot to put a password on my Pretender. Can you please kick me, and I'll re-upload. Sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif



You need to make yourself anonymous before I can kick you off.

Also, YellowCactus and Yvelina, could you sign in at:
https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl?page=BrowseGamePage&game=Live_and_Learn

You need to sign in before I can bounce Schmoe.

[J Henry Waugh]

Pretender God loaded.

[Thufir]

Schmoe, I did bounce you (and managed to do it w/o bouncing YellowCactus and Yvelina at the same time), so you can re-upload your pretender now.

[Thufir]

The game is started! Have fun everyone!

[Thufir]

YellowCactus still looking for you to sign in at:
https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl?page=BrowseGamePage&game=Live_and_Learn

[Thufir]

Anyone up for knocking out a bunch of the easy turns tomorrow? If we're all watching for turn processing, I'd guess we could get through several turns in a 2-3 hr time slot.

I'll be in all day tomorrow, so can work in to most anyone's schedule. I'm located in the US, California (PDT - GMT-8, or does daylight savings throw that off by 1hr?)

Do we have any European players in our game? I'd imagine that can still work if you're playing for a while in the afternoon/evening. For today, I'll be in for another 4 hrs (till 4pm PDT) and then I'll be able to get in one more turn late in the evening.

[YellowCactus]

There ya go big guy. All signed up.

[Thufir]

There ya go big guy. All signed up.



Sounds like you registered on mosehansen (which is good), but what I'm asking for is that you play non-anonymous in our game. that means when you go to the Browse Live_and_Learn page (https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl?page=BrowseGamePage&game=Live_and_Learn), check the box that labeled "That's me!" on the Mictlan line.

Not a big deal, but it's a convenience for me in administration of the game, and it makes the browse page look nicer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[J Henry Waugh]

Anyone up for knocking out a bunch of the easy turns tomorrow? If we're all watching for turn processing, I'd guess we could get through several turns in a 2-3 hr time slot.

I'll be in all day tomorrow, so can work in to most anyone's schedule. I'm located in the US, California (PDT - GMT-8, or does daylight savings throw that off by 1hr?)

Do we have any European players in our game? I'd imagine that can still work if you're playing for a while in the afternoon/evening. For today, I'll be in for another 4 hrs (till 4pm PDT) and then I'll be able to get in one more turn late in the evening.



I can knock another one out tonight if desired, but tomorrow might be a little rough - may not get a chance to sit down at the computer until night time (and I'm on PST - left coast time)...

[Thufir]

I can knock another one out tonight if desired, but tomorrow might be a little rough - may not get a chance to sit down at the computer until night time (and I'm on PST - left coast time)...



I'm on left coast time as well, so that'll work for me, but that might be a problem if we have any east coast or European players. But no worries, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.

Right now we're waiting on Cheezeninja, so if he gets his turn in today, it'd be great to get in another turn tonight.

[Aku]

A tip from a fellow newbie. My first mp game finished but I am in the middle of my 2nd and 3rd mp games. From what I have seen it is like almost impossible to blitz turns in a mp game until you get down to 3-4 players. In my first mp game we had 7 of us and you always have 1 or 2 people who can't be there because of varying time zones and work schedules. When the game got down to 3-4 of us we were able to get like 3-4 turns in a day so I guess it is like a semi blitz.

Just a tip so you don't waste a lot of time trying to arrange blitz sessions. And mp is so much better than sp that you cant wait for the game to host to do another turn. I just signed up for my 4th mp game since my 1st one ended(not going to do more than 3 at a time) and it is a team one of 6vs6 so it should be interesting.

I notice a lot of us new players talk a lot in our game threads while the veteran games are kind of really quiet I have noticed. I find the talking in the game thread makes the game a lot more interesting.

But good luck to you guys in your game. Take care.

Aku

[YellowCactus]

I try not to talk too much in these threads......because I'm so full of Sh*!
-Yc

[Thufir]

YellowCactus said:
I try not to talk too much in these threads......because I'm so full of Sh*!
-Yc



lol

Gotta give you credit for being self aware - I like that in a person! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Thufir]

Thanks for the tips, Aku, hope our game goes as well as yours seems to be going.


Aku said:

Just a tip so you don't waste a lot of time trying to arrange blitz sessions.



You're probably right, but even a small time block goes a long ways when you're turn 10 or less, so it's hard not to at least suggest. OTOH, I'm sure you're right that its not worth spending a lot of time trying to arrange.

[Schmoe]

I can tell you right now that my schedule is such that a blitz will be pretty much impossible. Between a full time job, family, and graduate school, I'm lucky to even be able to look at the game every day. Hopefully this doesn't mean you all gang up on me to eliminate me first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I think talking (typing) about the game makes it more fun. C'tis has the most provinces - the largest empire in the world! Hahahahah... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Too bad it's only turn 4 and I can't research my way out of a paper bag...

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
I can tell you right now that my schedule is such that a blitz will be pretty much impossible. Between a full time job, family, and graduate school, I'm lucky to even be able to look at the game every day. Hopefully this doesn't mean you all gang up on me to eliminate me first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif




No worries - we'll wait a bit and gang up on you second http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif




I think talking (typing) about the game makes it more fun. C'tis has the most provinces - the largest empire in the world! Hahahahah... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Too bad it's only turn 4 and I can't research my way out of a paper bag...



Hope you enjoyed it while it Lasted - almost everyone's on the same province count now. Abysia looks ready to jump ahead tho - already getting 2 provs in a turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[bleach168]

Abysia is more awkward than anything getting 2 provinces a turn and then none the next two turns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I hear that Odin One-Eye fella likes to kick puppies when he's not racking up the kills. I'd keep an eye on him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

bleach

[Thufir]

bleach168 said:
Abysia is more awkward than anything getting 2 provinces a turn and then none the next two turns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif




yeah, curious strategy that. you've done that twice now!



I hear that Odin One-Eye fella likes to kick puppies when he's not racking up the kills. I'd keep an eye on him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
bleach



Grrrrr /threads/images/Graemlins/mad.gif Is there no justice in the world?! You should do something about that!

But speaking about keeping an eye on people - did you notice Mictlan's research rate? Could be some kind of Manhattan project going on over there...

[YellowCactus]

Whoa...Whoa...Whoa...
You keep the empire of bloodsuckers out of this! After determining that with my nifty Drain 3, I'm in the paper bag too. So God has to be a Bookworm for a few turns until we can make skull mentors. (Not that we have ANY death gem income) BLAH!!!
-Yc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[deccan]

Thufir said:
Hope you enjoyed it while it Lasted - almost everyone's on the same province count now. Abysia looks ready to jump ahead tho - already getting 2 provs in a turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif



You know, even playing in SP, I have trouble getting provinces at a rate of 1 per turn, and you guys seem to have an indy setting of 8! Ouch. This means that you must be able to take indy provinces while taking next to no losses, which I find rather hard to do.

Just another sign of my newbie-ishness I guess.

[Yvelina]

Thufir said:


I hear that Odin One-Eye fella likes to kick puppies when he's not racking up the kills. I'd keep an eye on him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
bleach



Grrrrr /threads/images/Graemlins/mad.gif Is there no justice in the world?! You should do something about that!





Funny how the truth gets twisted in the telling.

He is not kicking it, he is slaugthering it.
It is dog, it is pork.
It is not many, but the same, immortal one, every night.
And it is not for sport, it is to feed the troops.

How can you plan on ganging up on the wise allfather who takes such good care of his worshippers? Shame on you!

[Thufir]

deccan said:

You know, even playing in SP, I have trouble getting provinces at a rate of 1 per turn, and you guys seem to have an indy setting of 8! Ouch. This means that you must be able to take indy provinces while taking next to no losses, which I find rather hard to do.

Just another sign of my newbie-ishness I guess.



Actually, at this point there's no difference between SP and MP, at all. It is tricky, and I'm still a newbie myself, but I'm beginning to work out how to do the opening expansion. One key is to make sure your initial army can do exactly what you just said - that is take indies with near zero casualties. A lot depends on which particular indies you go after, and estimating the toughness of a specific group of indies is an artform I'm still working on.

[YellowCactus]

Attack indies with scouts set to retreat. That should set you up for weighing they're strengths well enough. My personal bane are the hobbits with 'Lifetime protection' pacts. Those Imps just KEEP on COMING!
Yc

[Thufir]

YellowCactus said:
Attack indies with scouts set to retreat.




Excellent tip! I hadn't thought of that one. And I told them that those Mictlanese weren't all blood sucking parasites - that if you looked hard enough you find one that was downright honorable!

[Schmoe]

Thufir said:

YellowCactus said:
Attack indies with scouts set to retreat.




Excellent tip! I hadn't thought of that one. And I told them that those Mictlanese weren't all blood sucking parasites - that if you looked hard enough you find one that was downright honorable!




The dwellersss of the Sswamps don't believe the Mictlan propoganda. They only wish to sssacrifisse us upon their altarsss. They would do well to keep to themselvesss and do not bother the C'tissss.

[Schmoe]

Hey everyone. I'm going to be out of town this weekend from tomorrow mid-day until Monday evening. That means that I'll have a couple of stale turns. I'll try to find a sub, just haven't had time yet. If I'm hosed when I return, well, I guess that's how it goes. Hopefully it's not that bad, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cheezeninja]

The most successful opening expansion drives i know about are all either bless powered or SC powered. Once you get to alteration 3 there are a few pretender types that can start wiping out weaker (and sometimes stronger) provinces all by their lonesome with the right magic paths. My personal picks for this are the Void Lord and VQ, they both excell at early land expansion because of built in life drain (which helps ALOT with fatigue and even hp). Of course the VQ is exceedingly expensive to take, and the Void Lord is an underwater pretender and tritons would chew him up before he got a chance to raise his shields. A bunch of other pretender can do the early expansion, but they face more risk doing it.

*cough* Niefel Giants do pretty good at stomping indeps without casualties once you have about 5-6 of them plus your starting crew, which you might notice, looking at the charts.. *cough*

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
Hey everyone. I'm going to be out of town this weekend from tomorrow mid-day until Monday evening. That means that I'll have a couple of stale turns. I'll try to find a sub, just haven't had time yet. If I'm hosed when I return, well, I guess that's how it goes. Hopefully it's not that bad, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



No problem, you warned us about that before signing on - if no one objects, I can change this to 48h quickhost tomorrow morning. I would guess that making the change will restart the clock, in which case you won't stale at all.

Let us know whether or not you find a sub - I'll check this thread before I make the change tomorrow morning.

- Thufir

[Schmoe]

Niefel giants don't do anyone any good when they are crippled by disease.

[Schmoe]

Thufir said:

Schmoe said:
Hey everyone. I'm going to be out of town this weekend from tomorrow mid-day until Monday evening. That means that I'll have a couple of stale turns. I'll try to find a sub, just haven't had time yet. If I'm hosed when I return, well, I guess that's how it goes. Hopefully it's not that bad, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



No problem, you warned us about that before signing on - if no one objects, I can change this to 48h quickhost tomorrow morning. I would guess that making the change will restart the clock, in which case you won't stale at all.

Let us know whether or not you find a sub - I'll check this thread before I make the change tomorrow morning.

- Thufir



Actually, it turns out that I found a sub. PashaDawg will be taking over for me over the weekend (thank you Pasha). No need to slow the game down on my account, and I know a lot of people like to get a few good turns in over the weekend. Of course, judging by the fate of his Machaka empire in another game, this could be good or bad for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
Niefel giants don't do anyone any good when they are crippled by disease.



When I played Jotunheim SP, I was always having supply problems, and did have a tough time staying healthy. Now imagine if I were playing against Miasma C'tis - that could complicate things!

[Cheezeninja]

Schmoe said:
Niefel giants don't do anyone any good when they are crippled by disease.



True enough, which is why i like to switch over to Jarls only after my first expansion spree. a Jarl with a wraith sword, pendant of luck, quickness, Breath of Winter, and N9 blessing has much reduced chances of getting an affliction, and 3-5 of them can reduce almost all independants to rubble when properly outfitted.

[Schmoe]

The C'tis wish it to be known that the treacherousss warriors of Mictlan have begun to assail one of our fortressessss. The swamps churn in anger, and soon the waterways will run with their festering blood. This is the fate that befalls those who attack the C'tis. Take heed, for the C'tis desire only to be left alone in their swampssss.

[YellowCactus]

Was that an Epitaph Schmoe?
-Yc

[Schmoe]

YellowCactus said:
Was that an Epitaph Schmoe?
-Yc



Umm, I guess we'll find out when the next turn hosts. Come on Machaka and Arco! The suspense is killing me!

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[Thufir]

Looks like Arco is about to stale. J Henry are you around anywhere?

[J Henry Waugh]

Having trouble connecting to game server, today and yesterday... ...locked up my box, stuck on the "Connecting to game server" after proceeding past hostname and port panels. Did submit a turn Last night after it reported I had a stale turn...

[Yvelina]

This has been happening to me for the Last three turns as well. Unfortunately, it isn't the first time, and I doubt it is the Last. This is just something that happens to some players on Mose's server.

What I do is bring the Task Managet up, and kill the Dominion II application as soon as I see I am not getting through. Then I try again. And again. Usually the third or fourth time does it. Whatever you do, do not assume that the server is down. Keep trying or you will stall.

By the way, I think that, at least once, I had to try more than fifteen times... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[J Henry Waugh]

Yvelina said:
This has been happening to me for the Last three turns as well. Unfortunately, it isn't the first time, and I doubt it is the Last. This is just something that happens to some players on Mose's server.

What I do is bring the Task Managet up, and kill the Dominion II application as soon as I see I am not getting through. Then I try again. And again. Usually the third or fourth time does it. Whatever you do, do not assume that the server is down. Keep trying or you will stall.




Will try tonight again but I needed to get to work and was unable to ctrl-tab out (on Mac OS X) to kill and try again.

[Schmoe]

That's strange. The only time I had a similar problem, all of my Internet access was affected. Reinstalling my Winsock fixed the problem, but I'm not sure what the root cause was. Regardless, the game should timeout after 60 seconds or so.

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
That's strange. The only time I had a similar problem, all of my Internet access was affected. Reinstalling my Winsock fixed the problem, but I'm not sure what the root cause was. Regardless, the game should timeout after 60 seconds or so.



I've had it hang - but only rarely. And as Yvelina, I was able to kill it w/ task manager.

[Cheezeninja]

The vale echoed with the cold ring of metal and the strange curses of ancient and giant tounges. The animals quivered and hid in fear as the two mighty champions met in mortal combat, it ended with a mighty bellow and one champion spilled his life into the churned and muddy soil.

One of my Jarl squads moved into the same indep province as the Allfather, two of my Jarls ran off and the third stuck around to trade blows for quite awhile... he lost, but it was a good fight and the Allfather definetly had a few more wounds to lick. Good Fight, and no hard feelings on my part.

[Yvelina]

I am glad you are not angry. I should have scouted before I attacked that province. I did not expect that you would invade it as well. But it could have been much, much worse. I am glad that the allfather took these two wounds, and not for example feeblemind or disease http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

And now, guess who is looking for Nature gems and Gift of Health :-) A lost cause, I know. I have more of a chance to summon a Fairy Queen or something.

But yeah. Vanheim is looking for nature gems. I will trade equal quantities of Fire, Air, or Earth gems.

[Cheezeninja]

Well... This war between Abysia and me certainly is interesting. About this time Pythium's armies are rolling up Abysia's rear provinces, and while i've lost a few provinces i've smashed an army of Devil's and 1 of Abysian infantry. Good fun!

[YellowCactus]

Theee Peoplesss off thee swamppps....have taught me how not to play Mictlan.
THANKS FOR THE SCHOOLIN!
-Yc

[Schmoe]

I have a lot of respect for you for playing it to the end. It's definitely hard to swallow your lumps. I know, I've been there.

I was impressed by your Ice Devils coming so quickly, and we had a good running battle for a time. I don't know, but it seems like you may have let unrest get out of control in your capitol.

Oh well, Live and Learn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

"And ssssoon the world will be rid of the Mictlan stain. The swampssss murmur with sssatisfaction."

YellowCactus, I noticed that you picked up Mictlan in another game. Trying out some new ideas? Having played Mictlan in SP, I have to say that they are a difficult race to get right.

[YellowCactus]

I'm into cross-dressing now....Oh, no-no....I'm into cross-breeding! In the other game after 4 attacks upon an Indi. I've learned that archers are really effective against most foul spawn.
This was fun! Best of luck to all.

[Schmoe]

What has happened to Arco (J Henry)? It looks like he had a stale turn Wednesday, then took a turn Thursday, and now it looks like he might go stale again. J, are you having connection problems again?

[J Henry Waugh]

Having difficulty getting into game again ... stuck at "Waiting for game info" message... ...tried 3 times in a row to no avail...

[Thufir]

J Henry Waugh said:
Having difficulty getting into game again ... stuck at "Waiting for game info" message... ...tried 3 times in a row to no avail...



Sorry about that! With a little more warning, I could've held up the game for you. Better luck next time!

[Schmoe]

Thufir, where are you?

Looks like you went stale Last night, and may do so again tonight. Does anyone know where he's gone?

Also, does anyone want to switch this game to 48 hour QH? As the game gets farther along, it's getting harder to find the time to dedicate to completing a turn.

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
Thufir, where are you?

Looks like you went stale Last night, and may do so again tonight. Does anyone know where he's gone?

Also, does anyone want to switch this game to 48 hour QH? As the game gets farther along, it's getting harder to find the time to dedicate to completing a turn.



Actually, I did not stale Last night (although it was close), nor tonight.

I'm fine with going to 48h quickhost, if that's what the majority wants.

[Schmoe]

Thufir said:

Schmoe said:
Thufir, where are you?

Looks like you went stale Last night, and may do so again tonight. Does anyone know where he's gone?

Also, does anyone want to switch this game to 48 hour QH? As the game gets farther along, it's getting harder to find the time to dedicate to completing a turn.



Actually, I did not stale Last night (although it was close), nor tonight.



Good, that's a relief. I would hate for the mighty Pythium empire to suffer a stale burp. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm fine with the majority rule on setting to 48 hour QH, but count me as a vote for YES.

[bleach168]

Although I'm happy with the 24h QH, I would rather have a 48h QH if that means people won't go stale.

[Thufir]

I vote for 48h Quickhost.

[Thufir]

Esben just clarified the situation with the server, we don't change to the new Version the server is on until the game is restarted. Unless someone objects very soon, I'll restart the game. As I understand it, this is supposed to keep any submitted turns as still submitted (and you should be fine no matter whether you used 2.12 or 2.14), but I think there is some chance we'll need to resubmit turns.

[Stossel]

I don't care either way, if someone would prefer 48H, then fine with me

[Thufir]

Game has now been restarted - we are officially on 2.14, as of now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Thufir]

As always, the graphs tell it all in Dom2. I think we can call this one, "Bend over Pythians, time to get spanked":

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/295981-BendOver.jpg

[Schmoe]

Yeah, that's a scary picture. I think it's safe to say that Abyssia has made a comeback.

Any news on changing the timelimit for the quickhost? I'll probably go stale once this weekend on 24 hour QH.

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
Any news on changing the timelimit for the quickhost? I'll probably go stale once this weekend on 24 hour QH.



Well, it wasn't much of a vote, so I think i'll just make an executive decision, and set it to 48h qh on Sat morning. If there's an objection, we can hash it out on Monday.

[Schmoe]

Thanks Thufir! I really appreciate it. Who knows, maybe the C'tis will help you out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

We are now on 48hr quickhost.

Also, Jotunheim has now gone AI. Thanks for playing, Mr. Ninja, it was fun while it Lasted (if only either of us knew how to counter devils, I'm sure it would've gone much differently! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[Cheezeninja]

it was indeed fun, but devil's weren't the main problem! I ended up losing my major investement (at least when it could have mattered still) to lava warriors. That will teach me to send Niefel Jarls into a hot environment. I actually had a decent hope of surviving once i got the forge up....until Vanheim rolled into my territory with the vastly superior forces...whew... it felt like i was shooting black powder rifles at tanks. Ahhh well. Good luck to everyone, most especially my good Pythium allies and Abysian and Vanheimian foes... I'd like to say that though I lost at least my enemie(s)/ally won.

[bleach168]

Ack... 2.14 hosed me. My commanders with two soul contracts only produce one devil per turn. There goes half my devil production. They are cursed items so I can't remove them. Sigh.

Also, two of my commanders just got attacked by Ashen Angels. I've never seen that before in SP. Is that a player casted spell? If so, which one?

[J Henry Waugh]

I still on v2.12 - out of town and I'm unable to upgrade without wiping and reinstalling before upgrading (at least that is how it worked for v2.12) and I'm not sure if I have Dom2 disc with me...

...48 hour QH cool - I've been having trouble connecting...

[Thufir]

J Henry Waugh said:
I still on v2.12 - out of town and I'm unable to upgrade without wiping and reinstalling before upgrading (at least that is how it worked for v2.12) and I'm not sure if I have Dom2 disc with me...

...48 hour QH cool - I've been having trouble connecting...



afaik, it's not a disaster to do your turns w/ 2.12. You can expect the combat replays to be quite wrong - so don't trust them (combat summaries are ok). Also, they're might be descriptions won't reflect rule changes.

You shouldn't have to uninstall/reinstall to upgrade, everything worked fine for me, at least just doing the normal upgrade (and this should be true whether you're upgrading from 2.12 or 2.13). The only caution is that you might want to copy the executable for 2.12 before you do that upgrade, in case any games you're in are still on 2.12.

[Tuidjy]

> it was indeed fun, but devil's weren't the main problem!

Devils are overrated. There is a thread about devils where the anyone
who does not tremble gets mocked... Still, if you read our comments there,
you can see that there are ways to deal with them.

> Also, two of my commanders just got attacked by Ashen Angels. I've never
> seen that before in SP. Is that a player casted spell? If so, which one?

The spell is called Manifestation, and takes a D3 mage and five gems. It is
Conjuration 7 or 8, and is the main reason to keep your 'soul contracted'
commanders under a dome and away from your capital.

[bleach168]

Thanks Tuidjy!

I learn something new about Dominions everyday!

Now, the new question is, who is doing this to me?

Hmmmmm... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Yvelina]

Cheezeninja said:
I actually had a decent hope of surviving once i got the forge up....until Vanheim rolled into my territory with the vastly superior forces...whew... it felt like i was shooting black powder rifles at tanks.



I actually felt really bad about invading you. But put yourself in my place. I had nowhere to expand, and had I attacked C'tis, the two of us would have been easy pickings for whoever emerged victorious in the Abysya war.

And did not give me an easy time of it. Your flying Jarls came as a total surpise to me, and my economy is still recovering from their raids. You caught one of my main armies while the anti-air support was AWOL and wiped it out.

But put my mind at ease. You were going only after me, right? I would hate to think I was dealing with one third of your forces.

[Schmoe]

I see Arco staled again. J Henry, I just want to let you know that upgrading to 2.14 should help. I had experienced similar connection "burps" with 2.12, but haven't had a single incident since I upgraded.

[Schmoe]

Hey Thufir, I feel bad for your scout. Hehe, poor guy, that's what I call a no-win situation. I guess there's a reason they give scouts hazard pay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Yvelina]

Oh, my. I was not aware we had to appologize for killed scouts. I am catching at least three each turn, and it has been up to six on some. I am sure that there are some scouts in my lands, mostly because I never secured my southern border, but the ones trying to enter now are very likely to get caught. Sorry, but a girl has to have her secrets.

By the way, if I ever catch the one who wasted 250 gems dispelling my totally innoffensive enchantments... but whom am I kidding, I will never know who he is. Bleach, I sympathise with your loss.

Oh, and stop calling me a vulture. I've heard it now from three people. I had nowhere to go but to war. And anyone who thinks that Jotunheim was carrion before I started has a lower opinion of eleven fully equiped Jarls than I do. We had a few nice fights... and I lost two of them.

[Schmoe]

By my count you owe me at least 4 apologies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm sure more are coming, too. But look at my situation, I only have a few provinces that can produce scouts near my borders, and scouts produced deep in my dominion are most likely to die a prolonged, painful, disease-ridden death before they can be of any use to me. About the only place I can send scouts is through Vanheim territory, so it's nothing personal, you're just lucky.

[YellowCactus]

Two-hundred pounds of gold for Schmoe's Head. Those C'tis are up to no good I tell you!
Yc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

YellowCactus said:
Two-hundred pounds of gold for Schmoe's Head. Those C'tis are up to no good I tell you!
Yc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Hmmmm, interesting proposition...

[Thufir]

Yvelina said:

Oh, and stop calling me a vulture. I've heard it now from three people.



If you are counting us as one of your three people then your count is incorrect. We called the Vanheim "carrion crows"

Selissa
Princess of Fishermen,
Queen of the Emerald Throne

[Schmoe]

YellowCactus said:
Two-hundred pounds of gold for Schmoe's Head. Those C'tis are up to no good I tell you!
Yc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Don't be bitter, YC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm sure someone's going to try soon enough. Right now there's an interesting three-way standoff between Vanheim/Abyssia/C'tis. It's hard to say who's the most powerful at the moment. I have more territory and income, but Vanheim has the most research and some truly terrifying SC's, and Abyssia has a scary devil factory going as well as a few arch-devils. I don't think that Pythium, Machaka, or Arco are quite on the same level at the moment, but they will still play a pivotal role in the game and could still maneuver into a position of strength.

Of course, I wouldn't be where I was now if I didn't have all of the fertile fields that Mictlan once held http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif The people are much happier under the rule of the wise and beneficent Stygos. Those who survive the miasma, that is.

[YellowCactus]

Bitter,
Oh-No. I had lots of fun in this one. However, Schmoe needs an ample bundle of Whoopin' just to keep those forked tongue lizards in line! They're so Scaly and ickie. Demonic faithful of Mictlan couldn't hold back the swamp things.
-Yc

[Schmoe]

YellowCactus said:
Bitter,
Oh-No. I had lots of fun in this one. However, Schmoe needs an ample bundle of Whoopin' just to keep those forked tongue lizards in line! They're so Scaly and ickie. Demonic faithful of Mictlan couldn't hold back the swamp things.
-Yc



Nah, I don't really think you're bitter. Just teasing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Question: What's limp, crippled, mute, lost an arm, weakened, has a chest wound, and has battle fright?

Answer: The Mictlan prophet after a holiday in the swamps!

Hehe.

Oh yeah, Thufir, Pythium is the only nation left to go for the next turn.

[Cheezeninja]

Yvelina said:

I actually felt really bad about invading you. But put yourself in my place. I had nowhere to expand, and had I attacked C'tis, the two of us would have been easy pickings for whoever emerged victorious in the Abysya war.

And did not give me an easy time of it. Your flying Jarls came as a total surpise to me, and my economy is still recovering from their raids. You caught one of my main armies while the anti-air support was AWOL and wiped it out.

But put my mind at ease. You were going only after me, right? I would hate to think I was dealing with one third of your forces.




Yeah I threw everything at you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I knew the moment you invaded me it was the Last nail in the coffin, and it was bitter because my war with Abysia had just wound down and I still had Forge up. If I had been left alone for awhile I would have been a happy little clammer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Tuidjy]

Cheezeninja said: If I had been left alone for awhile I would have been a happy little clammer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



I think you just killed Pythium. But then, what do I know...

[Thufir]

Tuidjy said:

Cheezeninja said: If I had been left alone for awhile I would have been a happy little clammer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



I think you just killed Pythium. But then, what do I know...



Yes - what do you know? Not having played in our game, I'm wondering how you have a clue...

[Tuidjy]

During Worldcon (beginning of September) I was watching Yvelina play that game.
Lately we have been talking about it, and she has been trying to figure out
how anyone would have such a surplus of gems as to use tons of them for
defeating her enchantments.

Now, if I were in her position, I would go look for these clams. But then
again, what do I know...

[Schmoe]

Tuidjy said:
During Worldcon (beginning of September) I was watching Yvelina play that game.
Lately we have been talking about it, and she has been trying to figure out
how anyone would have such a surplus of gems as to use tons of them for
defeating her enchantments.

Now, if I were in her position, I would go look for these clams. But then
again, what do I know...



I think the answer would be - the same way she has tons of gems to cast the enchantments in the first place. Vanheim has cast Forge of the Ancients (twice), Gift of Health, Well of Misery, and Arcane Nexus in this game. That's a lot of gems, and dispelling takes fewer gems than casting the enchantment.

By the way, apparently Fire Storm > C'tis. I think my upkeep went down by about 200 gold this turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Yvelina]

Hey, hey, a couple of points!

o Petar is not playing this game, I am. I am not positive that Pythium is the one taking down my enchantments.

o I thought that you cannot dispell an enchantment unless you put in as many gems as were invested in the first place. If this is not the case, then I am a fool for using at least the double of gems for each of mine (but that unfortunate first FoA). Or maybe tripple, you know? ;-)

o I have realized I positively HATE not knowing who my enemies are. Right now, I should probably be declaring war on Abysia, but have not, because if my secret enemy is Pythium, he will probably ally with Abysia and I will be in trouble, and if C'tis is the one who was taking down my enchantments, he does not deserve my help.

o And finally, I did not cast Fire Storm at C'tis. I have no fire mages or fire on my pretender, I am alchemizing all of my fire gem income, and unless I am mistaken, Fire storm is a level 9 spell, and I do not have level 9 Evocation researched.

o Oh, and did I mention, I hate this game. I wanna play team games, where you know which way your front and rear are.

o As for the tons of gems, I am using them for some benefit to me (or trying to) Whoever is taking down my enchantments is wasting them.

o I hate diplomacy. I think I will write Pythiumx2, Abysiax2, C'tis and AI on a dice, and see which way it rolls.

[bleach168]

I think Schmoe is refering to the level 7 evocation spell, Fire Storm. Oh, and he most assuredly knows where it came from. =)

But Yvelina, you should be happy about the position you're in. The rest of us are just crippling ourselves while you hoard and what not. We spend all our gems fighting and the thought of casting a global hasn't even crossed my mind.

I am having lots of fun though. =)

[Schmoe]

Yvelina said:
o I thought that you cannot dispell an enchantment unless you put in as many gems as were invested in the first place. If this is not the case, then I am a fool for using at least the double of gems for each of mine (but that unfortunate first FoA). Or maybe tripple, you know? ;-)




Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the cost to dispel is related to the extra gems put into an enchantment, but not directly equal. In order to Dispel, you have to spend the cost of the Dispel (30), plus an amount equal to the amount originally spent above the base cost of the enchantment you are dispelling. For example, let's say opponent X casts Well of Misery, spending a total of 100 death gems (80 base + 20 extra). The cost to dispel would then be 50 astral gems (30 base +20 extra). Most globals have a base cost higher than 30 gems, so you can effectively dispel for fewer gems than the amount spent on the global.



o I have realized I positively HATE not knowing who my enemies are. Right now, I should probably be declaring war on Abysia, but have not, because if my secret enemy is Pythium, he will probably ally with Abysia and I will be in trouble, and if C'tis is the one who was taking down my enchantments, he does not deserve my help.

o And finally, I did not cast Fire Storm at C'tis. I have no fire mages or fire on my pretender, I am alchemizing all of my fire gem income, and unless I am mistaken, Fire storm is a level 9 spell, and I do not have level 9 Evocation researched.



As bleach said, I know who cast the Fire Storm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif Oh yes, I know the culprit, and his red, scaly butt will be mine, I tell you, mine! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


o Oh, and did I mention, I hate this game. I wanna play team games, where you know which way your front and rear are.



Sorry you're not having fun. To be honest, the tension in the "cold war" was getting to me, too, so I decided to stir things up a bit. It looks like I may have been better off waiting a few turns, but it's more exciting this way. I may lose, but I'm determined to enjoy doing it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


o As for the tons of gems, I am using them for some benefit to me (or trying to) Whoever is taking down my enchantments is wasting them.



Well, I actually disagree. Dispelling your enchantments hurts you. What does an opponent want to do to his enemy? Hurt him/her. I personally don't expect any global to Last long. I just hope I get some use out of mine before they're all gone.


o I hate diplomacy. I think I will write Pythiumx2, Abysiax2, C'tis and AI on a dice, and see which way it rolls.



Hey, what about Arco, Machaka, and Pythium! They're still in this too.

Anyway, I'd be interested in a team game, too, once this one is over. Could be fun.

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the cost to dispel is related to the extra gems put into an enchantment, but not directly equal. In order to Dispel, you have to spend the cost of the Dispel (30), plus an amount equal to the amount originally spent above the base cost of the enchantment you are dispelling. For example, let's say opponent X casts Well of Misery, spending a total of 100 death gems (80 base + 20 extra). The cost to dispel would then be 50 astral gems (30 base +20 extra). Most globals have a base cost higher than 30 gems, so you can effectively dispel for fewer gems than the amount spent on the global.




Here's a clip from a thread somewhere that I saved:


AFAIK if both the global spell and the Dispel pay the base cost, there is about a 50% dispel chance. This is however modified, depending upon (for both spells) :
- extra gems spent,
- difference in skill of the caster and the level of the spell.
There is also an open-ended d6 added to the gem input of every global and dispelling attempt.
Exemple : a lvl 10 nature mage casts Gift of Health (lvl 5) with 25 extra gems. Sum=25+5+D6(oe). Dispelling astrologer has astral lvl 3 only but uses 35 extra gems. Sum=35+D6(oe). Dispel will probably succeed (35+d6 vs 30+d6) : it's hard to beat a difference of 5 with one (even open-ended) d6.

[Thufir]

We're waiting on Arco, and I know he staled Last turn. J Henry, are you still with us?

[Thufir]

J Henry has had two consecutive stales on us now, unless he shows up in the next 12 hrs, or unless someone objects, I'm going to change him to AI sometime tomorrow.

[Schmoe]

I say we give him another 24 hours. Since it's on 48h quickhost, and usually somebody takes more than 24 hours, it shouldn't be a big deal.

I know, it's a longshot, but it would be better than setting him to AI.

You know Thufir, the more experience I'm getting with this game the worse I feel about going AI in the Last game we played. I know that me doing so really screwed you over. I realize now I should have at the very least tried to find a sub, so consider this an apology.

[Yvelina]

With him stalling every turn, it's just as if we had 48h with quickhost disabled. My term has started, and I really like it this way. And to make things even better, I know it is not Arco who is throwing spells at me. I really do not get it. Machaka, Abysia, and C'tis are fighting. Pythium should be happy to let me join the fray, so he can remain at peace and build up. Who the hell is testing my domes every turn? I wish I could throw a few fire domes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Thufir]

Schmoe said:
I say we give him another 24 hours. Since it's on 48h quickhost, and usually somebody takes more than 24 hours, it shouldn't be a big deal.

I know, it's a longshot, but it would be better than setting him to AI.




Well, I'm in no rush here, but I believe that it has been more than 4 days now since J Henry took a turn. IMO, Arco has been very static the entire game, and other than further perplexing Yvelina as to the source of hostile spell casting (which actually was of considerable value http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - but thats permanently lost now, no matter whether he shows up or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif), I don't see that he was likely to have much impact on the outcome of the game.




You know Thufir, the more experience I'm getting with this game the worse I feel about going AI in the Last game we played. I know that me doing so really screwed you over. I realize now I should have at the very least tried to find a sub, so consider this an apology.

Actually, I just went through my list of games, and I don't see that you went AI in any of them, unless you were using a different ID? There were a couple of positions that went AI prematurely in Pandemonium (they were owned by "Jarenko" and "odd_enuf"), so I guess your apology is going to the wrong person?

In all the games I have created, I've never seen the need to be that "hardcore" about going AI or not. I can see the fun in creating a "no quitter" game, and I'd have a different opinion in that case, but none of my games to date have been declared as no quitter games.

In our game, it would certainly be bad if any of yourself, Yvelina or Bleach went AI. And if the game became unbearable for any of you, I'd certainly work to find a sub. But for the rest of us, it doesn't seem that we are likely to play a major role in the outcome.

OTOH, I've also never gone AI myself. If I become uncompetitive in a game, the level of fun in it does drop, but I usually find it pretty easy to crank out turns that are far better than what the AI could do, without a large amount of effort. I can also maintain a line of diplomacy that's consistent with the history of the nation I've created. I'm sometimes surprised by how many players go AI when they're down to their Last two or three provinces. It take so little effort to play at that point, and I usually value the opportunity to experiment tactically, w/o any great consequence hinging on the result. If I can drag out my ending for 1-2 turns longer than the AI could've then I congratulate myself for having contributed to the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So, generally, fighting it out to the bitter end is a good thing, but I've never felt it should be required. What *does* get me torqued is when a player just disappears w/o any notice whatsoever. It takes 5 minutes to post a PM to the game owner w/ your password and say "I'm gone". It takes maybe half an hour to post on the forum a note looking for subs, and doing a bit of follow up. Simply disappearing is totally lame, IMO.

[Thufir]

Yvelina said:
With him stalling every turn, it's just as if we had 48h with quickhost disabled. My term has started, and I really like it this way.

We can certainly disable quickhost - I'm fine with that. Is anyone opposed to turning off quickhost? If do that would it be ok to set it to host about 11pm PDT (which I think is GMT-7, since we're on daylight savings time).




And to make things even better, I know it is not Arco who is throwing spells at me. I really do not get it. Machaka, Abysia, and C'tis are fighting. Pythium should be happy to let me join the fray, so he can remain at peace and build up. Who the hell is testing my domes every turn? I wish I could throw a few fire domes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Ah, fire domes are nice! Wouldn't a world where all the mysteries of life are removed be so boring! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Schmoe]

Thufir said:
Actually, I just went through my list of games, and I don't see that you went AI in any of them, unless you were using a different ID? There were a couple of positions that went AI prematurely in Pandemonium (they were owned by "Jarenko" and "odd_enuf"), so I guess your apology is going to the wrong person?



Didn't you host a PBEM game back in May or June? I was Machaka, I thought you were Abyssia, and Ulm and Pythium had jumped out in the lead. Abyssia and Machaka had an alliance, and the turn I went AI, the AI decided to attack Abyssia, even though Ulm was seiging two Machakan fortresses! That was my first MP game. This is my second.

Anyway, I don't have a real problem with people going AI, but I think it's polite to at least try to find another resolution.


I'm sometimes surprised by how many players go AI when they're down to their Last two or three provinces. It take so little effort to play at that point, and I usually value the opportunity to experiment tactically, w/o any great consequence hinging on the result. If I can drag out my ending for 1-2 turns longer than the AI could've then I congratulate myself for having contributed to the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So, generally, fighting it out to the bitter end is a good thing, but I've never felt it should be required. What *does* get me torqued is when a player just disappears w/o any notice whatsoever. It takes 5 minutes to post a PM to the game owner w/ your password and say "I'm gone". It takes maybe half an hour to post on the forum a note looking for subs, and doing a bit of follow up. Simply disappearing is totally lame, IMO.



Agreed.

[Schmoe]

Yvelina said:
With him stalling every turn, it's just as if we had 48h with quickhost disabled. My term has started, and I really like it this way.



Yeah, I don't have a problem with going to no quickhost. I'm in the middle of a very busy semester, too. But I'm fine with quickhost enabled, if people want to keep it that way.


I wish I could throw a few fire domes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Don't we all...

[Schmoe]

Schmoe said:
Didn't you host a PBEM game back in May or June? I was Machaka, I thought you were Abyssia, and Ulm and Pythium had jumped out in the lead. Abyssia and Machaka had an alliance, and the turn I went AI, the AI decided to attack Abyssia, even though Ulm was seiging two Machakan fortresses! That was my first MP game. This is my second.




Erk! I double-checked, and it appears you were not the Thufir I was speaking of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Mea culpa. But still, if you had been that guy, and I had gone AI on you, I would have felt bad. Heh.

[Thufir]

OK, Arco is now set to AI. I will now set to 48h fixed hosting, and I will set it to host at 8pm, PDT. If there's any consensus to change that, I'll be happy to do so (I'm guessing that this is a time that will work both east coast and west coast - it's my impression that we don't have any European players in this game).

[J Henry Waugh]

Sorry all... ...lost net contact for a few days... ...figured I staled for a few turns but didn't mean to hold things up... ...and tried to play this morning...

[Thufir]

J Henry Waugh said:
Sorry all... ...lost net contact for a few days... ...figured I staled for a few turns but didn't mean to hold things up... ...and tried to play this morning...


Sorry about that - but that was a pretty lengthy disappearance of yours, so I was at a bit of a loss. For future reference, if you can make it to a web browser via a friend's computer (or whatever), and let us know your out of touch for a bit, we could've worked up some alternate solutions.

Hope to see you in another game!

[Thufir]

My apologies for the delayed response - I've been meaning to reply to this for a while.



Yvelina said:
o Oh, and did I mention, I hate this game. I wanna play team games, where you know which way your front and rear are.

...

o I hate diplomacy. I think I will write Pythiumx2, Abysiax2, C'tis and AI on a dice, and see which way it rolls.

I can certainly sympathize w/ the desire to play team games. I've talked a bit with Boron about the team game that he's in, and it does sound like fun. The downside of a team game is that unless your team has the time and the will to communicate and coordinate effectively, then there's not much of a point in being a "team". From what Boron has told me, they have had some communication problems in their game.

You may have read this, but a while back Bleach started an excellent thread ( here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB74&Number=295611&Forum= f74&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=295611&Searc h=true&where=bodysub&Name=5204&daterange=1&newerva l=5&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Pos t295611)) on what this community thinks is reasonable while conducting diplomacy in MP games. I come from a background of playing the boardgame "Diplomacy" where cutthroat play and back stabbing are essential to the game being interesting (and it can get *very* interesting indeed, if you're interested in complex strategy). Partly based on Bleach's thread, I've decided to moderate my behavior while playing Dom2, as I think the majority of the Dom2 community has a different mind set than most Diplomacy players have.

That said, even in Dom2 I find it helpful to cultivate a bit of deliberate split personality disorder (as one would with any RP type of game - particularly those RP games that permit/encourage inter-player conflict). As such, the one that thing that I can promise you, Yvelina, is that if you were to attack the nation of Pythium magically, or otherwise, based on a possibly mistaken belief that Pythium cast those dispels, then I would react with fury in-game (well such fury as the weakened Pythium is capable of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), but would *not* carry it over to any new games.

YMMV, but for me the 2 keys to making FFA, diplomacy type games fun are to deliberately split in-game and out-of-game mindsets, and making sure not to carry over grudges between games. Oh, and perhaps not taking the game *too* seriously - if I've made my guess wrong and attacked the wrong player - who cares? It's just a game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

On a separate note, I've hosted four games, and this game has had the most fun/interesting group to play with! It's been quite interesting to watch the ebb and flow of who's in the lead, and I'm looking forward to seeing the ultimate outcome!

[Yvelina]

I am SO gonna hurt someone... Two more turns, and someone will pay for all the dispells, and all the spells that my domes intercepted, and the fire spell that got through.

If he happens to be the actual culprit, great! If not, well, I'll get to him, eventually! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

Arco, you are out of the game, for which I am sorry... But was it you?

[Thufir]

Yvelina said:
I am SO gonna hurt someone... Two more turns, and someone will pay for all the dispells, and all the spells that my domes intercepted, and the fire spell that got through.



Good for you!

Just remember, it wasn't me! I swear it!

[Yvelina]

Woops. Vanheim's troops bumped heads with Pythium's forces again on this turn. But you know, that happens when you are invading the same nation. Although I was the attacked party in all three cases, I do not mind (not having any casualties helps)

On the other hand, I trust that there will be no further 'accidents'. There is a clear border now, and I will consider any attacks on Arco's territories north of it as agressions against Vanheim. These get punished.

On a different note, I see that some spies are still trying to penetrate my borders. I appreciate the training provided to my patrollers, but I warn you that I will be a lot less happy with the intruders if I were to start catching them deep inside my territories. A girl has to have her secrets.

[Yvelina]

Hey, is anyone still playing? I just looked at the game, and only Vanheim (me) and Abysia have taken their turns... Do you guys concede the natural superiority of Vanir over humans, spiders, and lizards?

[Thufir]

Yvelina said:
Hey, is anyone still playing? I just looked at the game, and only Vanheim (me) and Abysia have taken their turns... Do you guys concede the natural superiority of Vanir over humans, spiders, and lizards?

Well, I confess my interest is not exactly at a peak - but at least looking at the graphs, I'd think C'tis is still in the running. As long as C'tis or Abysia want to give it a go, I'll stick it out.

[Yvelina]

Thufir said:

Yvelina said:
Hey, is anyone still playing? I just looked at the game, and only Vanheim (me) and Abysia have taken their turns... Do you guys concede the natural superiority of Vanir over humans, spiders, and lizards?

Well, I confess my interest is not exactly at a peak - but at least looking at the graphs, I'd think C'tis is still in the running. As long as C'tis or Abysia want to give it a go, I'll stick it out.



Hmm... I was just kidding about the superiority. Not that it is not true, or anything, but I did not expect anyone to agree :-p But if your interest is dwindling, all you have to do is own up to dispelling my poor little globals. Then the holy AND unholy might of the Vanir Empire will come down on you like... a ton of supercombatants.

[Schmoe]

Yeah, I'm here. Just not a lot of time to kick around on the Boards, ya know? Anyway, it looks like Vanheim will be looking for an opponent soon.

[Yvelina]

Vanheim has been defeated on the diplomatic front. No worries. Every negotiator has been issued a Gate Cleaver and sent abroad to redeem himself by trying a new approach. We'll see how that works out.

[Schmoe]

The C'tis wish it to be known that a great Heliophagus, whose name will not be mentioned, and who was equipped with the Tartarian Chains, the Black Heart, and various other enchanted items, has failed the C'tis race miserably. When given orders to assassinate Burninator, the King of Fire, it seemed that he lacked direction. Inexplicably, the Heliophagus tried repeatedly to enrage, blind, and boil the blood of Burninator, rather than engage in combat and risk its skin. Some have whispered that the Heliophagus was never given explicit combat instructions and its feeble mind could compose no better course of action, but to say such is blasphemy and will be dealt with harshly. Needless to say, the offending Heliophagus has once again been banished to the nether realms. The C'tis are currently debating whether it is worthwhile to summon it again and give it another chance.

[Schmoe]

Yvelina said:
Vanheim has been defeated on the diplomatic front. No worries. Every negotiator has been issued a Gate Cleaver and sent abroad to redeem himself by trying a new approach. We'll see how that works out.



Be gentle. The C'tis are a peace-loving folk, after all. Never mind the undead titans and demons rising from their swamps.

[Yvelina]

> Inexplicably, the Heliophagus tried repeatedly to enrage, blind, and boil the blood of Burninator, rather than engage in combat and risk its skin.

On the other hand, the timidity of your supercombatants served them well in the other battles. I wish they had not routed - I think I killed only one big guy or two... when I was shooting for a lot more.

> Never mind the undead titans and demons rising from their swamps.

As they rise, so shall they sink http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Schmoe]

The nation of C'tis concedes. They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn. Had the C'tis general (me) more time in RL, he might continue just to experiment with a few things before his swift demise, but such is not the case. Congratulations to Vanheim! And thanks to everyone who played in this game.

[Yvelina]

> They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn.

I hope you do not think I was cheating. If you wish, I can send you a few turn files to see how I did it. By the way, the Last turn I divided my attacks between you and Abysia. And I have a good third of my forces besieging Pythium's castles.

If everyone else conceeds we might want to free the slot on the server.

[Thufir]

Yvelina said:
> They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn.

I hope you do not think I was cheating.



I didn't take Schmoe's comments that way. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly have no reason whatsoever to think that you were cheating.




If you wish, I can send you a few turn files to see how I did it. By the way, the Last turn I divided my attacks between you and Abysia. And I have a good third of my forces besieging Pythium's castles.

If everyone else conceeds we might want to free the slot on the server.

Well, that's a no brainer! Yes, I concede. Well fought Yvelina! Your forces in the end game were truly impressive, and I had no hope of standing against any of your high quality Tartarians.

It was a great game everyone, I learned a lot and really enjoyed myself. Thanks to all involved! If I don't hear any objections, I'll stop the game tomorrow morning.

- Thufir

[Schmoe]

Yvelina said:
> They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn.

I hope you do not think I was cheating.



No, I'm just slightly discouraged because I thought I was in a somewhat stronger position than I was. I probably made a few mistakes the Last 5 turns or so, as I had to rush my turns due to RL, but I was so far behind on the resource curve it didn't really matter. My best guess is that allowing you to have the Nexus as long as you did was a serious mistake. That, and the fact that you didn't fight another opponent until late in the game when Arco went AI, so you were free to spend all of your time building up. Seriously though, well done. You fully convinced me of the reasons I belonged in this newbie game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Yvelina]

Schmoe said:

Yvelina said:
> They cannot fight against multiple "instant" fortresses, 7-8 Ghost Riders, multiple Flames from the Sky, and an onslaught of Tartarians and multiply empowered mages, each turn.

I hope you do not think I was cheating.



No, I'm just slightly discouraged because I thought I was in a somewhat stronger position than I was. I probably made a few mistakes the Last 5 turns or so, as I had to rush my turns due to RL, but I was so far behind on the resource curve it didn't really matter.


Yes, it is the ressources that did it. I had about 170 clams, 150 fetishes and 70 blood stones.

My best guess is that allowing you to have the Nexus as long as you did was a serious mistake.


The Forge of the Ancients turned out also extremely powerful. This was the second game I had it (the other one started much later, but was faster paced, and I learned TONS from it) Every turn, I was forging 10 pearls and 10 fetishes, and as many blood stones as I could. Apart from Odin, Veni, Vedi and Vici, my commanders were no better than yours. But I could afford much better equipment. I think that my black servants could have taken on a Tartarian of yours and won.

That, and the fact that you didn't fight another opponent until late in the game when Arco went AI, so you were free to spend all of your time building up.


Actually, I stayed out of the fray because I was afraid to get mobbed. I do not think that I lost a single mage or supercombantant in the war against Arco, Pythium, Abysia and C'tis. Pythium blinded a very powerful Ether Lord, and I had to rush a few Vanadrotts to the rear because they got the swamp sickness, but apart from that, I had no casualties.

And the events justified my fears. As soon as started fighting, although it was against the AI, I got mobbed :-)


Seriously though, well done. You fully convinced me of the reasons I belonged in this newbie game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



When I started I was a MP newbie myself... but at Worldcon Petar (Tuidjy) and I played a lot of games together, and I learned quite a few tricks. And my placement in this game was very fortunate. I still wish I did not feel that I had to attack Jotunheim. But I think that without it, I would not have won.

[Thufir]

The game is now stopped.

Congratulations on a victory well deserved, Yvelina!

Couple of questions for you:

I recall one of your solo Tartarians kicking my butt in a water province - he was equipped with a Scutata Volturnus, a blood thorn and various other equipment. I've not seen the Scutata in use a whole lot - is that particularly effective generally, or more so underwater? It definitely seemed to be quite effective at mowing through my troops, as I recall...

Would you mind telling us roughly what astral income you were getting from the Arcane Nexus?

[bleach168]

Good game, guys. Well played.

I learned quite a lot.

Yvelina was just in an unstoppable position at the end. We should have done something about that much earlier.

[Schmoe]

Thufir, I can't speak for Yvelina, but I've used the Scutata quite a bit, and it's one of my favorite shields, maybe moreso than a Charcoal Shield. The free Shocking Grasp every turn is great for reducing the chaff, it provides good defense and protection, and it's very cheap.

[Schmoe]

bleach168 said:
Good game, guys. Well played.

I learned quite a lot.

Yvelina was just in an unstoppable position at the end. We should have done something about that much earlier.



Yeah, I agree. There was a point for me where I could go north and attack Vanheim, or go west and attack Machaka (and eventually Abyssia). Because my capitol was on the very border of Machaka/Abyssia, I decided to go west. The fact that Yvelina was a very accomodating ally helped sway my decision. In retrospect, things may have turned out very differently if I had turned north, instead.

[Yvelina]

I recall one of your solo Tartarians kicking my butt in a water province - he was equipped with a Scutata Volturnus, a blood thorn and various other equipment. I've not seen the Scutata in use a whole lot - is that particularly effective generally, or more so underwater?


It is one of my two favorite non-artifact shields. The other is the Charcoal shield. I use one or the other depending on the situation.

The Charcoal shield is great against mobs, and gives you fire resistance, which is why it was the shield of choice on the C'tis front.

The Scutata Volturnus's attack is better against single, powerful enemies, has better defense, and gives you electrical resistance. Using it underwater, against Pythium, was an easy call :-)


Would you mind telling us roughly what astral income you were getting from the Arcane Nexus?



Once I got fully into forge mode, I was getting about 400 absorbed gems, or 100 astral gems per turn. I would use them to wish for gems, which brings in 210 gems of all kinds, and use those to forge items. OF course, they would get absorbed back into the Vortex http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


In retrospect, things may have turned out very differently if I had turned north, instead.



Absolutely. But I was already prepared for a defensive war and you would have probably not have been able to unite everyone against me. At that time, you looked like the one to beat, not I. Although I doubt that anyone had anything that could beat Odin, Veni, Vidi or Vici, who already were equiped with the best artifacts.

... and now I am off to bed. I love debriefings, but what I need is sleep. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[bleach168]

I was very open to the idea of uniting against Vanheim before C'tis invaded Machaka. I believe Vanheim already had the 3 AQs, the Arcane Nexus, and a Tartarian factory going at that point.

But once C'tis attacked Machaka and triggered my alliance with them, we were doomed.

Pythium, Machaka and I were still really weak from our previous wars so I'm still not sure we could have defeated Vanheim had C'tis united with us.

[bleach168]

Oh.. now that the game is over, time to fess up!

Who kept sending those ashen angels against me? Grrr...

[Schmoe]

bleach168 said:
Oh.. now that the game is over, time to fess up!

Who kept sending those ashen angels against me? Grrr...



Heh, that was me. It turns out that Ashen Angels prefer horror-marked victims, and it just so happens that soul contracts horror-mark the bearer. Win! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif