Newbie Slug Fest - Mose Hansen game - ENDED

[deccan]

PashaDawg said:
(I have not tested this theory, because I am a lawyer and, therefore, I am physically unable to cheat or lie. I am sure Brother Dragonfire11 would back me up on this fact.)




Hmm, since you were not born a lawyer, so logically there was a point before which you could physically cheat or lie. What happened during this point??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[The Panther]

I always thought that you could tell a lawyer was lying because his lips moved! Or maybe it was Graham Grassbahl who is spreading these bald-faced untruths about the peaceloving nation of Caelum who is getting UNMERCIFULLY invaded by his aggressive neighbors!

Anyway, I see that the server is back up. So I restarted the game and it now seems to work. This also had the HUGE advantage of resetting the timer to 24 hours so that the four people who had been unable to move will not stale.

It would be very bad if this fine game were be ruined by Pasha Dawg or Deccan or Pickles getting a stale during such a critical time with their ongoing unprovoked invasions of a peaceloving neighboring nation.

So - you warmongers get your turns in!

As for peeking at peoples turns, as host, I have the master password in this game so I believe that I could conceivable look at other peoples turns. But if I had to stoop to that in order to win, then I would either have to shoot myself or become a lawyer due to the shame of it all. Besides, since I have consistently failed to predict where Deccan or Pasha and even Arco (his attack on my capitol was a huge surprise to me) were moving their armies during their invasions, so they can easily attest to the fact that I have never looked at anybody's turns. Nor will I ever do this.

So, my point is that I would have no problems trusting an honorable person hosting even though they could peek at other peoples turns. Someone needs to have a master password anyway in case something goes wrong and a turn file or two needs to be sent to Illwinter or to convert a missing player to AI.

I will also say that I had forgotten to assign a password in my Mictlan game and on two occasions, I saw stupid things in my turns that I simply could not remember actually doing. While it could be due to my increasing age, it also could be that my opponent whom I was at war with peeked and did something to me. I prefer to believe the former, much as it pains me to admit that memory is the second thing that goes.

I just hope my daughter in pre-law at the University of Caelum (formerly known as the University of Oklahoma) never reads this thread!

[deccan]

Yay, it looks like it works fine now. Thanks Panther. Now I can go back to killing evil Caelumnites...

Though it looks like it's Pasha's turn to be put through the false horror grinding mill...

[PashaDawg]

deccan said:

PashaDawg said:
(I have not tested this theory, because I am a lawyer and, therefore, I am physically unable to cheat or lie. I am sure Brother Dragonfire11 would back me up on this fact.)




Hmm, since you were not born a lawyer, so logically there was a point before which you could physically cheat or lie. What happened during this point??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



An ontological change occurred when I took the oath for admission into the Bar. Someone even had to attest to my good moral character before the Maine Supreme Judicial Court. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[PashaDawg]

The game seems to be working again, and I have taken my turns. (It's always fun to be the Last person to go every so often, because you get to play two turns in a row... yeeehaw!!)

[PashaDawg]

Good shock & awe tactics, Panther. Can you keep it up? "Is that all you got?" <hopping from side to side with my dukes up...>

[deccan]

I'm having connection problems again. Tried many, many times.

[The Panther]

Same here. I restarted the game and it seemed to clear up once again...

[deccan]

Yep, works now. Thanks Panther.

[deccan]

Ermor has broken Mictlan's siege of its capital. Jotunheim has lain siege on Caelum's capital and Abysia decides that Pythium's newly Acashicked provinces are too tasty to pass up. Meanwhile, Machaka prowls around looking for easy targets of opportunity...

[The Panther]

PashaDawg said:
Good shock & awe tactics, Panther. Can you keep it up? "Is that all you got?" <hopping from side to side with my dukes up...>



The president of the University of Caelum showed up unannounced in the chambers of his highness.

"Oh noble invisible one!"
"Yeah, what do you want this time?"
"Uh, well, sir, we are trying to understand this odd message from Grasbahl, sir."
"And?"
"And we think we have it!"
"Well, it's about time. My tax money is disappearing from paying all you idiots. I ought to get something for that hard cash. So spit it out."
"Well, sir, we have decided that Grashbahl is drunk!"
"DRUNK???"
"Yup. He is making absolutely no sense. And his army is wandering aimlessly about in our territory. First west. Then south. Then north. Now east. Who knows where he is going next???"
"So, this means he is drunk?"
"Yes sir."
"How do you figure that?"
"Ah, it was my own daughter who found it!"
"Found what, you idiot?"
"It's a little known mathematical formula called a drunken walk! Grasbahl's actions match the formula almost exactly! I told you that sending my daughter to college for a useful degree like engineering was going to work out great!"
"Well, at least this means we can predict where he is going next, right?"
"Um, not exactly."
"What??? Just plug that idiotic drunken Grasbahl into the equation and tell me."
"We did that sir."
"And???"
"And each direction is equally likely."
"I see... So what good is this then?"
"It advances our knowledge base, sir."
"But I am paying your university for USEFUL knowledge. Like Ghost Riders. Or Niefel Flames. Something I can actually use, darn your hide! My provinces are revolting from all the unrest due to the tax money I am sinking into your bottomless pit. And you give me this? The drunken walk??? Get out of my sight!"
"Yes sir." And the old man shuffled out of the sacred chamber at once.

[PashaDawg]

Yes, yes.... what IS Machaka up to?

And, it surprises me that the Ghost King's minions know so little of the structure of the Ulm Government. Everyone knows that His Highly Esteemed Corpulence, Graham Grassbahl, has nothing to do with the operations of the Ulm military. He is primarily a liaison between His Most Esteemed Highness, PASHA, the Black Iron Lord of Ulm, and the greater Ulm public. He is also a major player in Ulm diplomacy, culinary criticism, and the keeping of the Imperial Poodle Ponies. Perhaps, if the Ghost King spent less of his budget on his fat propaganda machine and more on basic espionage, he would have known this by now. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. I can tell that ULM has already won this war. It's just a matter of time. Hmmmm... perhaps, we should just skip to the part where CAELUM pays substantial reparations to Arco, Jotunheim and Ulm. Hmmmm? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Edit (by His Highly Esteemed Corpulence): “Here! Here! Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Simplicity itself!” <Burp> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Steerpike]

Here, here, PASHA Black Iron Lord of Ulm I second your call for substantial reparations. Garuda the four armed Blue light of Arco is just on his way back from the netherworld and suggests that IF Caelum capitulates immediately he may show a little mercy.
I have learned all the lessons I need from Caelum and will attempt to give some in return. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Perhaps if the winged fiends of Caelum wernt so agressive this unfortunate war may have been avoided and we all could have wandered the fields and meadows of our lands singing songs of praise for our pretenders. A dream cruelly cut short by CAELUM the black Panther. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DragonFire11]

Ah, wouldn't be so nice to see the world and know what other nations are doing. Perhaps launch a vicious compulsory freedom mission from time to time. But nooo. I have to sit behind my crusty old castle getting pounded by the Pickled Armies. No world domination for this Lord Master emerging Head Dead Honcho desired Chief favoring Commander yet Boss erstwhile Chieftain truculent Cock (in the old sense of the word please!) nascent Dominator hopeful Head anticipative Headman auspicious Hierarch who has little to do than think up job titles.

[KroolDeath]

Yes, Abysia seems to have taken advantage of the fact that I am in a somehwat weakened state from fighting Vanheim.

However, I used regular troops in those battles (Principes), and have many more goodies up my sleeve, waiting for such an event such as this.

A recommendation for an immediate withdraw from my territories is called for.


Don't you think all the gem income is going to something??

Krool
Pythium

[Grim Knight]

Ah yes KroolDeath, of course the Gem income is going to something. I expect this, I just want to see it.

Show Me the product of the gem income!!!

Show Me what you've got!!

Stop Me if you can!

Grim Knight, the opportunist, has spoken.

[PashaDawg]

DECLARATION OF DISGUST
with Imposition of Sanctions

We, the undersigned Noble Lords of the Empire of Ulm, being duly authorized by divine fiat issued by His Most Holy PASHA, the Black Iron Lord of Ulm, do hereby find the base villain, THE PANTHER, pretender and scourge of the universe, to be guilty of scores of heinous acts such as:

He hath polluted the environment with thaumaturgic garbage and refused to clean up after himself. He hath betrayed the natural liberty inherent to the ontological essence of his meek winged folk and hath enslaved them and made them do his evil deeds while he worked through them vicariously. He hath overtaxed them without due representation and hath flaunted this wrong by lavishing gifts on his malignant minions at bawdy parties of Jello wrestling and nude ping-pong.

He hath betrayed the sacred trust among God Pretenders by commencing hostile actions against the peaceful folk of Jotunheim and Acroscephale without cause and for only unjust and greedy self promotion. In spite of courteous missives from the Black Iron Lord of Ulm, he hath ignored all encouragement to cease his wicked warmongering.

He hath murdered and dismembered the cute, furry bunnies known by the names of Floppy, Quiver Cottontail, Beevie, and Scootie, for the sole purpose of indulging his sadistic bloodthirstiness. He laughed when poor Scootie begged. He gathered all his malignant minions to watch while he sliced off defenseless Floppy’s ears. His sickness doth run deep.

WHEREFORE, we hereby declare THE PANTHER anathema. He is hereby irrevocably excommunicated from the Sacred Brotherhood of Uzzurbleeshewfooth.

FURTHERMORE, upon the authority granted to us by said divine fiat, we impose sanctions upon said PANTHER. No further imports or exports of goods or services shall be made from the Empire of Ulm to or from the Dictatorship of Caelum. All Caelum assets within the Dominion of Ulm are hereby frozen and seized as reparations rightfully due to the Black Iron Lord of Ulm.

This we sign upon our sacred honor:

/s/ Sir Ircon Teabiskut, High Lord Secretary of State

/s/ Sir Gullschmire Kaffeemitmilch, High Lord Secretary of the Treasury

/s/ Sir Graham Grassbahl, His Almost Most Highness

[deccan]

In addition to the proclamation of our dearly beloved allies of Ulm, of whom only one their many virtues we giants of Jotunheim hold in great esteem is their highly cultivated and refined taste in haute cuisine and fine wines and to whom we are greatly appreciative for their recent gift of a most delicious recipe namely "Caelum wing flambé marinated in thick mammoth stew" and with "iced cider topped with crushed astral pearls" for dessert, we wish to share with the nations of Inland a recent discovery by our scientists that cannot but add to the already mountaineous evidence of the evilness of the pernicious Panther, enemy of all.

Specificially, through the most ingenious reasoning of the very large brains of our best Jotun scientists and the application of the most rigorous methods of statistical analysis available in the pre-scientific period we live in, we have determined that the recent increase in incidence of crying Jotun babies and the loudness of such crying can be perfectly correlated with the noted period during which the hated minions of Panther began the widespread use of the most annoying spell "False Horror".

Our suspicions were confirmed when during a sophisticated experiment one of our scientists muttered "Wooooo" in a creche which resulted in all babies present crying at volumes sufficient to break giant eardrums.

Due to this and the high likelihood that Jotun parents have incurred permanent psychological damage due to the excessive crying from this one concrete example of thaumaturgical pollution directly caused by the evil Panther and alluded to by the respected Ulmites, we call upon all nations of Inland to support us in our demand that Caelum make reparations by providing a free seraph to each household for babysitting duties.

[KroolDeath]

Arrrggg, I must duly admit that I am close to being vanquished before I could bring my might to bear on the renegade Abysian nation!

After not being able to connect to the game, I find myself with Abysia on my capital, not two turns after losing my Ghost King to an indy province debacle.

(Side note here: This game has been problematic for me to connect too at times, however, I don't think it would have changed the current scenario one bit, Abysia would still be at my capital given my weakened status from my war with Vanheim. So, not using it as an excuse!).

Of course, I will be fighting to the bitter end, which should be...a turn or two! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Krool the Betrayed

[deccan]

Alas my dear Pythium, I would love to join you for a spot of flash-fried salamander tongue, but us giants would have a hard time getting past the uncouth rabble at your gates. Truly, these barbarians have no manners...

[DragonFire11]

Well, at least I held three provinces at one point! Death becomes me I think.

Adios!

[The Panther]

"Sir! Sir!"
"What now?"
"These new proclamations from our enemies!"
"Yeah, I saw them. Have you converted the one from Ulm into English yet?"
"Um, it IS in English, sir!"
"I don't think so, for it makes absolutely no sense. One more heretofore henceforth or He Hath and I just might scream!"
"That would not be wise sir, for the chicken pen has not been covered up. Your scream might kill them."
"Would it kill you?"
"Um, no sir."
"Darn!"

"Anyway, my dear provost, how can Ulm issue proclamations that are false?"
"Well, it seems that if you put a bunch of nonsense together and sound all high and mighty, people will believe you."
"So, do we have our own proclamation ready like I asked to counter this slander?"
"Yes sir, and we are just waiting for your final approval, sir."
"I see. Finally you are doing something right."
"I will also point out a very important thing about this so-called Declaration of Digust from Ulm, sir."
"And?"
"And their Minister of War did not sign it. We think he has been beheaded for the huge mistake of invading our beloved homeland. Since the war is going so poorly for them, we believe that the Pretender God Pasha was most displeased with the boneheaded advice of the Minister of War."
"Has Pasha sued for peace yet?"
"No, and we believe he will not do so either. So, what are we to do with the Ulm capitol, now that our armies seige it?"
"Take it."
"Very good, sir, very good. And if Ulm wants peace?"
"We may discuss terms AFTER we own his capitol, not before."
"Yes sir."

"Now, what about this message from the giants?"
"Well, sir, that message was deemed fairly accurate. We have been keeping their children AND their soldiers awake with that horror dream. You were most correct when you told me that the lightning bolts were not useful against giants. But this latest spell seems to work just fine against those nasty creatures."
"Ha! They too will rue the day they invaded my sacred homeland!"
"Yes sir, I believe they already do!"
"And what was that thing about our Seraphs for babysitting duties?"
"Um, we will ignore it."
"Right answer! You CAN be taught!"
"Thank you, sir, I think."

"Good. Now about that third nation that invaded us long ago, Arcosoblat or whatever the heck they call themselves. What about them? The war does seem to be going quite well for us down south."
"It is, sir, it is! We have taken everything but their capitol now. We will soon seige and take that too. And we have killed that false pretender twice now."
"Great, so he must be gone forever, just like the false Gods of Ermor and Vanheim?"
"Um, no sir. Garuda is back. It seems that those priestesses persist in calling him back from the dead."
"Darn it, I knew that was going to happen. At least he has all those afflictions we put on him in that Last glorious battle!"
"Um, no. Those same priestesses seem to have healed him. They know an odd spell called healing."
"Well, why don't we learn that same spell then? We need that to heal the injuries of my poor prophet queen that those nasty Ulm knights inflicted!"
"Um, we are working on it, but it seems to be a unique thing for these Arco types."
"Darn it all, and with all I pay to your university! Find me an answer!"
"Yes sir."
"Very well, then. Let's get this proclamation posted."
"Aye, aye, sir. Here it is."

The Proclamation of Mighty Defense:
Let it be known to all false pretenders that any nation which invades the fine country of Caelum like first Arcoswhatever, then Jontunheim, and finally Ulm hath done, such nations shall be burned to the ground! We will show no mercy. We will be eventually be eliminating those three nations from existence, whenever we decide to do so. Let this be a lesson to all false gods in the fine land of Inland!"

/s His Highness Most Holy, to be feared above all else,
Panther of Caelum.


"I like it, I like it!"
"I knew you would, sir!"

[KroolDeath]

Yes...This is a pity indeed. Had I known the Abysian's wanted to play at my capital, I would have sent a proper invite and showered them with gifts and friendship.

No, instead, it must end this way.

In revenge, I am going to stale every other turn to drag out my imminent demise. j/k

Krool

[The Panther]

DragonFire11 said:
Well, at least I held three provinces at one point! Death becomes me I think.

Adios!



Good game and nice defense holding out, Dragon Fire. You Lasted far longer than anyone could have possibly thought! Especially Pickles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DragonFire11]

Thanks Panther. Someday I'll play a good game, not just hold on by the merest hope. Keep the tips coming!. And I forgot to leave my testamentary effects! I was so habituated to Pickles’ invasions that I never actually thought he would truly kill me. It figures. I don’t have a will in real life and I have kids and an attorney wife. Making a will would cut into my gaming time.

[DragonFire11]

If this group plays another game please drop me a message on this forum! Thanks.

[Steerpike]

I think that I will be joining you next turn Dragonfire.
Your battle with pickles was amazing, I wish my defense was as successful.
Panther I bow before your superior tactics and thank you for a lesson well learned next time I will be searching frantically for magic sites from day one and watching the skies for false horrors.
I too want in on the next game with you guys.
Fight to the death.

[deccan]

DragonFire11 said:
If this group plays another game please drop me a message on this forum! Thanks.



Me too, me too! And we all know who to dogpile on next game, don't we? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Just joking.

[PashaDawg]

Steerpike said:
Panther I bow before your superior tactics....



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif NEVER!!!! I would rather DIE!!!! <Fist pounding on table, almost knocking the laptop to the floor.> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Good writing on the thread!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Hmmmm... I wonder why the Ulm Secretary of Defense did not sign the Declaration of Disgust... hmmmm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Grim Knight]

Krool, here I am knocking at your door loudly.

I assure you I only want to crash the loud party on the other side of the walls.

Why don't you just open the door and let me in?

*Crosses fingers and holds them out of sight behind his back*

I won't cause too much damage, I promise.

Grim Knight

P.S.

Where are the hideous creatures purchased with the gem income?

[KroolDeath]

I knew the gem income comment would burn me...

I didn't get a chance to use it!!!

Instead, I've hoarded them like a greedy little (and soon dead) king!

Krool

[PashaDawg]

UHG!! I fear that the Worthy Empire of Ulm has been overrun. We have only a few turns left before all will be black... Good playing, Panther.

[Grim Knight]

Krool, that is too bad. I was looking forward to battling some gem summoned baddies.

Oh well, I guess that was not to be.

No if this wall would hurry up and crack...

Grim Knight, The Lengthy Beseiger.

[Grim Knight]

Yes, Panther my good buddy and I shall divide the world between us.

So far he has completly vanquished Arco and, if we trust the words of the Black Iron Lord, Ulm will soon be vanquished by him as well.

Meanwhile I have vanquished Vanheim and it looks as if Pythium will soon fall to my flames.

Fire and Ice shall burn you all!!!

Grim Knight, The Destroyer of Kings.

[The Panther]

Yeah, too bad the game is over. It has been very fun. But I have to wonder about the wisdom of the victory conditions, and I am the one who put it that way. I thought that it would make for a bigger, bloodier fight, and I suppose it did exactly that. For everyone but Grim Knight is now at war with me since I am winning. I am not at all sure that it would have happened that way under different victory settings.

But it is too late now and the game will end on the next turn. I don't even get the satisfaction of trying to eliminate Jontunheim, though I did kill his ghost king Last turn.

The folks in this game have been very fun adversaries, and we ought to start another one with the same folks having first dibs on joining the new one.

However, the absence of new slots on the Mose Hansen server is a huge problem . Some have suggested PBEM. I was considering hosting a game on my own home computer, except that I don't think I can behind my firewall.

Any ideas? Three of my four ongoing games are ending very soon. I am losing the other two big time now and will be eliminated quickly in both. I would like to start another one right away. I am willing to try a PBEM game, though I am not sure how it works. I think you would not be able to play one turn per day unless you force stales. Anyone have any experience with PBEM?

[PashaDawg]

I'd be up for another game.* I think with PBEM, it would have to be agreed that there would be a scheduled host every day at a specific time (unless there was a special request).

Dragonfire and I have been playing PBEM for a few months. I don't mind it at all. The trick is making sure players are careful to not lose track of the latest .trn and .2h files.

PASHA


*In spite of the fact that my ego is currently brused by such a swift spanking by the Panther-Meister.

[KroolDeath]

The walls should Last awhile. They are made of all the gems I recently uncovered but didn't use!

Krool

[The Panther]

PashaDawg said:

*In spite of the fact that my ego is currently brused by such a swift spanking by the Panther-Meister.



It is my personal opinion that Ulm is the single worst nation against Caelum. Pretty much any other nation can deal against the false horror spam if they go the right magic or troop path. But Ulm is too one-dimensional to change its ways.

The fundamental problem with Ulm vs. Caelum is that the smiths always target the false horrors and kill their own troops plus a few horrors that would dissappear after the battle ends anyway. My son says they ougth to make the mages never target summons unless that is all there is left or the summons threaten the mage. If that were the case, Ulm could slaughter the back rank mages and archers with the power spells and eliminate the Caelum cheap false horror spam.

Just my opinion anyway. Had I been Ulm and you been Caelum, Pasha, I would have lost just as quickly as you did.

If we start a new game, whether PBEM or not, I would like to try my hand at Abysia for the first time in MP play. I have been testing that race in SP, and it seems a good race though hard to play. There are so many choices and paths Abysia can go down, that is seems difficult to know which is best. Abysia aslo has a difficult time doing research, unlike Caelum.

Anyway, if you want to host a PBEM game, Pasha, count me in.

[PashaDawg]

The Panther said:
It is my personal opinion that Ulm is the single worst nation against Caelum....

Anyway, if you want to host a PBEM game, Pasha, count me in.



Thank you for your nice words, Panther, but something tells me that the world is safer that YOU are the rocket scientist and not me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I have a kooky map that we could try. My one reservation is that it might not be a perfectly balanced map. It's the Tyrande map on the Illwinter site. It's a very beautiful map (and that means a lot to me for some reason). What do you think? Dragonfire and I have been playing on that map, and we both like it (but, again, lawyers like pretty things).

But, it might not be totally unbalanced. I think the provinces near the middle of the map are very rich, while the provinces on the edges tend to be poor. This gives the players "stuck" in the middle of the fray the resources they need to survive. The large mountain ranges make the mountain passes very important.

[PashaDawg]

Another interesting map is Arduria (also on the Illwinter map page).

[Grim Knight]

I am currently trying to figure out a way to work around the whole firewall issue with the server, I have posted to the Technical Support thread in the Main Forum for advice on this.

If I can get the server to work through my firewall then I would be happy to host our next game, otherwise PBEM would be fine for me as well.

Grim Knight.

[Grim Knight]

Ok, deccan tested it and was able to connect to the server hosted on my system.

So if you guys want to setup another game, I can host it.

Should we have a vote for which map and what settings to use?

Would it be better if I arbitrarily deceided on the settings?

I think a vote would be the fairest thing and then everyone who has played in this game would get input into the next game.

In case we decide to go with the vote I am going to cast mine now:

Map: Cradle of Zen (Unless more than 10 players)
Mod: Zen's Pretender Mod v1.72
Victory: Standard Victory Conditions
Sites: 50
H o F: 15
Research: Very Difficult
House Rules: Play a Nation you have never played MP before.
Indep Strength: 9
Host Speed: 24h QH
Everything Else: Leave at Default

Grim Knight

[Steerpike]

Yes I want in on this new game please.
As to the map I like the sound of Tyrande, downloading it now.
Jotunheim would be my preferred choice of nation.
Preferred magic would be normal or difficult, though not too difficult.
Indie 9 sounds cool to me.
I havn't played with Zens pretender Mod, is it good?
And maximum Game fun is essential.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Grim Knight]

Zen's Pretender Mod makes several modifications to pretenders to make them more balanced, primarily adding a little to the under powered / under used pretender's.

I am in a game with it now and it is working out well.

Grim Knight.

[The Panther]

Count me in. I would like to claim Abysia. This was a fun game, and not just because I won (lol). I have had fun games where I lost too. And a couple of my games were really not fun at all due to some annoying players in them plus the one where I badly messed up my pretender design and am about to die.

I have never player Cradle of Zen, or even looked at the map. I did look at the map Tyrande, and it has some problems to prevent it from working properly:
1. Eight players as a maximum might be a problem.
2. The map would have to be edited to remove all starting provinces with the premade sites. It my test, I had a nation start at the province with the Chillsick Swamp, which meant all troops sitting in the capitol would eventually get diseased.
3. The map is not well balanced in that whoever starts in the left lower corner will not be near those juicy built-in sites. In particular there is a massively powerful province in the NE with FOUR splendid sites, including a devil's den. Whoever starts over that way will be given a nice boost when taking that province.

It is a georgeous map, though, and I did like it a lot. Removing most, if not all, premade sites and putting in several #nostart in a few places would made it a fine, well-balanced MP map.

As for Aduria, I have played that map before in SP and found it to be a good map.

I will therefore comment on the map choice sometime later. Also, I know exactly nothing about Zen's mods and would need time to download and study them. I would bet that my lovely GK Abysian pretender which I made this weekend no longer works under Zen's mods.

I would suggest starting a new thread, Grim, unless you want the ten people in our just-finished game here to have first dibs on slots. If all want in, then we can just play another game with the same 10 players. That would certainly be fine with me.

As for your game settings, I love the very difficult research setting. I have always thought that normal research is far too easy. I mean, the high research nations will complete all research at about turn 60! Ugh even! What's the point in that?

I have been wanting to try another very difficult research game, for I think it makes national troops far more important instead of relying mostly on summons that would then take quite a while to research.

I don't agree with standard victory settings, as it can make for an abysmally long game. Of course, everyone can always agree on a winner (or even two allied winners) like apparently happens a lot. Maybe put in a victory setting requiring half the provinces. If someone owns half the provinces, they got it won anyway and it would be just a matter of cleaning up at that point. Under such a setting, I would not have won our current game just yet, though it would be getting quite close.

[Cainehill]

I second bypassing the Tyrande map - it can be fun for SP, but is hopelessly unbalanced for MP. Panther started with a site that diseased his capital? Someone else can start with the site that allows them to recruit Pythium's Grand Thaumaturgs, as well as the gem income, as that's a site that's been placed on the map.

Also, distribution of gold provinces, resource provinces, and magic provinces isn't even. While in a sense, it's reasonable and realistic that areas close to the north pole have less population, fewer resources, etc, it really doesn't do much for whomever is unlucky enough to start there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Might be interesting in a map that had 6-10 or more reasonable starting positions, and then people would choose whether to strike out for the gold rich coasts and plains, or the mountains and forests, or went to grab the polar wastelands because they figure on less competition, but that isn't Tyrande.

[The Panther]

Steerpike said:
Panther I bow before your superior tactics and thank you for a lesson well learned next time I will be searching frantically for magic sites from day one and watching the skies for false horrors.




Now that the game is over, I wanted to comment on this. The reason I went after you first, Steerpike, is that Arcoscephale is one of the races that can whip the false horrors from Caelum quite easily. All you have to do is research Thamauturgy first and then construction next (to get inexpensive starshine skullcaps and amulets of penetration for every single mage). With a nice pearl income from searching and clamming, you can use the sacred heart companions (with some priestesses to bless them, give them courage, and then heal everyone afterwards) or vine ogres to tank the horrors. Your back row mages will then then do mind control, paralyze, soul slay, and all the other nifty astral spells against the Caelum archers and mages, completely ignoring the mindless horrors! Light of the Northern Star is an absolute MUST spell for doing this, and it takes but one pearl to cast!

In one of my games in which I am about to die, I did this against Caelum and now have several seraphs and some bane lords (all without leadership, lol). It is not Caelum killing me, but instead is Mictlan and the devils.

Anyway, good game, Steerpike.

[PashaDawg]

No problem with not using the pretty map.

How about Aduria? The map is not too important. Very difficult magic reseach is fine, too. I'm not too particular.

I would love to get into the new game playing PANGEA. Never played it MP, and very little SP.

PASHA

[DragonFire11]

Hey, I'd like to play too! This time I will not take Ermor, thank you.

[Grim Knight]

I posted to this thread just because I want the 10 players from Last game to have first shot at the slots.

I have not played around with different victory conditions before, if there is one that allows you to set a winner for 50% of all provinces in the game that would be cool, as you say if someone gets to 50% provinces then they would most likely clearly win the game unless they only had one opponent left who had the other 50% of the provinces.

Once everyone here has had a chance to chime in, then it would be time to start a new thread for the next game.

It appears that the voting method shall be adopted, so if everyone who is interested in participating in the next game could cast a vote for any and all aspects of the MP setup that they feel strongly about, preferably in a list with each item clearly labeled and on a separate line, that would be great.

As for the map I am not too attached to any specific map, and it may be best to save the map choice for Last after we have a better idea of just how many people we are going to have in the game.

I notice I did not choose a race yet so I will call one now:

In the next game I would like to play as Marignon.

Race: Marignon

Grim Knight

[The Panther]

Grim Knight said:
I have not played around with different victory conditions before, if there is one that allows you to set a winner for 50% of all provinces in the game that would be cool, as you say if someone gets to 50% provinces then they would most likely clearly win the game unless they only had one opponent left who had the other 50% of the provinces.




This is why it is usually chosen with one more than half. To do this, just select alternate victory conditions and pick provinces from the menu. It opens up a slider bar and, unfortunately, you typically cannot select the exact number you want since the arrow keys don't work. You also need to know the total province count in the map from the .map file in order to decide on how many you want to use as the victory condition.

Another thought is the score graphs. I played my second MP game with graphs off, and I liked it a lot. It put far more reliance on scouts. It also led to some interesting diplomacy when you never knew for sure who was truly leading the game. I was one of the three major powers in that game, and I was constantly persuading the lesser powers that the other guy was winning and they needed to join my block instead of the other guys! It was a lot of fun, but the game unfortunately became glitched and crashed totally. We never could agree on who was winning when it crashed.

Anyway, here are my votes:
Map: TBD
Mods: No
Victory: Half the provinces
Sites: 50
HoF: 15
Research: Very difficult
House rules: Must take nation with no MP experience
Indies: 9
Score graphs: off
Host: 24h QH


The Panther

[PashaDawg]

My vote:

Map: Aduria (this map suggests victory point conditions)

Number of players: 10-12 (Aduria has a lot of room for water nations).

Mods: No

Victory: Victory points (e.g., 8 out of 12, that is, 2/3rds)

Sites: 45 or 50

HoF: 15

Research: Very difficult

House rules: Must take nation with no MP experience

Indies: 6

Score graphs: off (graphs off can be very fun)

Host: 24h QH

Again, I'd like to play Pangea.

Pasha

[deccan]

Well, Panther, I suppose you should shut down the game once everyone has had a chance to look at their turns.

I think I was the one who first suggested the Arco-Ulm-Jotunheim alliance against Caelum, and that was before Pasha went on holiday. Our plan was to wait until Pasha came back to attack you, but then you started carving up Vanheim with Abysia, and Steerpike egged me on to attack you without waiting for Pasha.

I agree with you that Arco was the best placed among us to defeat you. Not only for the mind-attacking spells you mentioned (though those would have worked best seeing as you had a magic scale which would reduce MR), but also the easy access to elemental combat spells.

Personally, I tried a variety things:

1) Cold-immune, lightning-immune thug. I think that worked okay. The problem was that I had no air magicians other than my pretender and so I gambled on spectres to get a random air but never succeeded. You never did catch that raiding Bane Lord. I should have made a bunch of them.

2) Massed indy archers. That didn't work very well. I thought a hail of arrows would kill a clump of false horrors, ethereal or not, but they kept missing.

3) Undead and vine ogres. Well, the tanks are mindless, but you could still scare away the mages, which dissolved the tanks. Ouch. It didn't help that false horrors actually have very good attack / defense. Mindless tanks are useless unless you actually have mages in the back to cast some good spells.

4) False horror spam could be defeated with overwhelming numbers if I arranged a full line of troops so that some would slip past the false horrors and attack the mages.

5) I watched some fights with Ulm, and while the charcoal shielded Black Lord could pop false horrors, it didn't help him against lightning bolts / frozen heart.

Overall, I'd say that false horror is definitely overpowered. It *can* be countered, but the costs of countering it is so disproportionate to the cost of deploying it. And against Caelum, you can always switch to frozen heart / lightning bolt once the enemy gets close, so I'd need to defend against that too. And throughout the game, I was wary of assembling a huge ***-kicking army for fear of a Wrathful Skies.

It was frustrating too that my GK died so easily. He was supposed to cast Fireshield + Breath of Winter but I guess that Air Queen and all those False Horrors next to him persuaded him to attack instead of casting spells.

Towards the end of the game, I was making a lot of vine ogres and longdead horsemen to tank for N3 mages with Spell Foci capable of casting charm. Too bad I never got to use them.

Oh well, I'm good for a new game as well, though I'd need some time to experiment with Zen's mod. I want to call dibs on C'tis this time.

[The Panther]

I would be the very first to agree that the false horror spell is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. I already posted that elsewhere on the forum. Nearly any race but Ulm can counter it, but the cost is usually higher than the cost to Caelum for doing it. Only Arco, Pythium and R'lyeh can easily beat the horrors without having to target it specifically since they are usually researching up Thaumaturgy anyways. Abysia has a good counter if they go the devil path. Until the inevitable Caelum staff of storms shows up, that is.

I also suspected that you were going to enlist Ulm in your alliance, so that is why I went to 3 day QH to slow down the game while he was gone. I did not want Pasha's holiday to influence the game, and it really did not all that much.

I too was surprised just how easily your GK died. I did not know you would attack with the lone GK, though. I did expect you to attack there, but with your army, and maybe also with the pretender. And because I was so close to getting the required number of VPs, I decided to jump in with every single troop I had that could reach the castle. I definitely wanted to break the walls in one turn to try and win the game at once by taking that VP. It was a very nice army. I think I had 23 mages, 2 AQs and a ton of archers, ogres, and draconians. I had 2 wine bags and the army was still starving! I had not realized until this game that the Caelum archers are size 3 and eat more than you would think.

Turns out that I found Pickles with an undefended VP province that he took from Ermor and that is what let me go one over the requirement. It was my insurance policy in case I lost the battle to you.

As for the bane lord, I never did get the chance to attack it with a decent army and see how it might have worked. And, as you know, I did lose several times with a small strike forces of a single seraph and a couple of archers when I guessed wrong on where you were going.

I always seem to easily predict the AI during SP. But people are rarely predictable, which is one of the things I really like about this game.

[KroolDeath]

Yes, I would be interested in a new game as well. Good group. I personally made a serious mistake on relying on convential troops for the most part. Yes, I built an SC Pretender (Ghost King), and he performed well for the most part, but when he got killed in an Indy province on the same turn that Abysia attacked, well...I was done...

I really think you don't crack open this game until you explore the magic options extensively, which I didn't do well. As a newb, I started 5 games at one time and got severely overwhelmed.

Anyway, I'm up for another game...Really enjoyed playing with you guys.

Krool

[deccan]

Hmm, I'll follow the standard format for the new game:

Map: No preference.

Number of players: No preference.

Mods: Zen's Pretender Mod. (I know we had at least three GKs in this game, and it would be nice if there were a little more variety.)

Victory: 2/3 of provinces

Sites: 50

HoF: 15

Research: Difficult (I already have a very difficult research game going. I can do another one, but be warned, it just means that everyone will take a fire 9 or water 9 blessing, which can be boring in its own way.)

House rules: Must take nation with no MP experience

Indies: 9 (punishes people who get too reckless about fast expansion)

Score graphs: off

[Steerpike]

Ok Ok I was the best placed to defeat Panther and in my arrogance I thought I might have had a good chance.
Even though we attacked without Pasha it was still two on one and Pasha could join the attack within 3 or 4 turns.
In my defense it was my second multiplayer game and I think I have learned from it.
We will see.

[Cainehill]

Hey, congrats on the win Panther - now if only there were trophies to bring home to Albuquerque. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[deccan]

The Panther said:
I too was surprised just how easily your GK died. I did not know you would attack with the lone GK, though. I did expect you to attack there, but with your army, and maybe also with the pretender.



Well, I didn't know you would move that much stuff there! I expected maybe the two AQs, the Wraith Lord, plus some seraphs, but I didn't know you that that big bunch of archers, draconians etc. on hand.

Besides, I was worried that if I sent in the GK with a bunch of giants, the false horrors would just scare the giants away and the GK would just rout with them.

[DragonFire11]

Has anyone claimed the giants?

[Steerpike]

yes I did

[Zen]

Viva la mod!

If any of you wouldn't mind, I'd like (after you choose your pretenders and get underway) a brief synopsis (in perhaps an Email?) of your Pretenders, why you chose them, and if you originally chose something else with the same intention but chose your current Pretender instead.

P.S. I know that there are alot of newer players out there, so even if the answer is: "This one looked cool" I will of course accept that too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

I just downloaded the Zen mods. I had no idea it was so easy!

He is up to 1.81, by the way. And I must admit that I like it. Changing the GK to 30 points per path is truly a good thing, and no longer makes it the no-brainer for many races like it is now. It even makes the VQ look more attractive once again when compared to the GK. It also allows one to possibly select a human rainbow pretender and not be giving the game away!

So....

I guess I have to change my vote in favor of the 1.81 Zen mod, which means I cannot use my 20 point path GK that I carefully crafted for Abysia over the weekend. But it seems the right thing to do.

[deccan]

Heh, so it turns out we had four GKs in this game: Jotunheim, Caelum, Ermor, Pythium.

And as for the new game, we can call it "Slightly Less Newbie Slugfest". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Remember, I want C'tis. Slurp, slurp.

[The Panther]

OK, I have tabulated the claims so far:

Grim Knight - Marignon (host)
Panther - Abysia
Steerpike - Jontunheim
Pasha Dawg - Pangaea
Deccan - C'tis
Dragon Fire - TBD
Krool Death - TBD

Not heard from yet:
Baboune
Beorne
Pickles

[The Panther]

Cainehill said:

Hey, congrats on the win Panther - now if only there were trophies to bring home to Albuquerque. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Hey thanks, Cainehill. Even though I could not convince you to attack Jontunheim when you subbed for Pasha, you did a good job despite that!

[Grim Knight]

Yes Panther congratulations are in order, even though I finished second place in most graphs I am very skeptical that I could have defeated you, even if I had jumped on the attack panther bandwagon with everyone else, and beleive me I was invited and encouraged to do just that many times.

So I think even if the game had continued and we had gotten into a conflict you would have won.

Grim Knight

[deccan]

The Panther said:
Hey thanks, Cainehill. Even though I could not convince you to attack Jontunheim when you subbed for Pasha, you did a good job despite that!



Hah! His evilness hath been revealed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[PashaDawg]

It's fine with me to use the mod... I just need to figure out how to set it up. Is it easy to switch between mod and non-mod games?

[deccan]

PashaDawg said:
It's fine with me to use the mod... I just need to figure out how to set it up. Is it easy to switch between mod and non-mod games?



Since you're not hosting, you only need to have it installed, you won't need to activate it. The game will automatically use the correct mod if the turn file calls for it. You will need to enable the mod to create your pretender though.

[Grim Knight]

PashaDawg, yes it is very easy to switch between Mod and Non mod games. This is the only Mod I have used and with this one, you only need to have the Mod installed and enabled at the time you create your pretender. After that just having it installed is enough.

Other games you have already started will be completely unaffected, whether you connect to them with the Mod enabled or not.

Grim Knight.

[baboune]

This is a good group and I can learn a lot from you. The problem is I am in too many games and lack time to play. So, I must (sadly) decline to play in this game.. arrgh.. believe me I wanted to ...

[KroolDeath]

I'll try out Vanheim....

Are we doing this via email? And it looks like I have to download some maps, eh?

Krool

[The Panther]

baboune said:
This is a good group and I can learn a lot from you. The problem is I am in too many games and lack time to play. So, I must (sadly) decline to play in this game.. arrgh.. believe me I wanted to ...



Aku told me Last night that if a slot opened up, he wants in and would take Pythium. Of course, if we do a larger map like Cradle, we could easily let in more than 10 players too if wanted.

Anyway, Aku can post in here if this is still true.

[Aku]

I would like to play in your new game because Pasha always has interesting stories and makes the games a lot of fun.

I know the original players have first dibs on nations so let me know if there is room in the game. If there is I will pick a nation from what is left(and i read the rules that it had to be a nation you never played mp with). I have a good handful of nations that I havent played mp with. I would like Pythium as my first choice though if it is available after all the original players pick their nations.

[DragonFire11]

I'll try . . . Arco. Although I really want to play a race I've never played before. I just lack the time to tinker. Any thoughts?

[PashaDawg]

Aku said:
I would like to play in your new game because Pasha always has interesting stories and makes the games a lot of fun.




I had to pay MEGA $$$$$ for that reference!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(Thanks, AKU.)

[The Panther]

DragonFire11 said:
I'll try . . . Arco. Although I really want to play a race I've never played before. I just lack the time to tinker. Any thoughts?



I thought the house rules that nearly everyione has agreed to was to play a nation that you have not played MP before. Does your comment here mean that is not so? Was it a real MP game or just a start that never went anywhere? If you only played a few moves, that does not matter much in my opinion.

But whatever floats your boat in the moat!

[PashaDawg]

DragonFire11 said:
I'll try . . . Arco. Although I really want to play a race I've never played before. I just lack the time to tinker. Any thoughts?



Aw, c'mon, Dragonfire... ya gotta play a race you've never done before. That's the RULE!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif How about Man? That's a great race. Or, Machaka... or Ulm...

[PashaDawg]

Ok. I got the Zen Conceptual Mods for Pretenders and Spells. Are we planning to play both or just the Pretender Mod?

[The Panther]

hm... I didnt even know bout the spell mod. I better go look at it...

[PashaDawg]

Another idea for a map would be Zen's map of Europe.

[deccan]

PashaDawg said:
I had to pay MEGA $$$$$ for that reference!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(Thanks, AKU.)



Personally, I'm looking forward to lots of Pasha trademarked stories about sexy Pangaean maenads... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Cainehill]

Hey, can I join in with the one nation I've never played? Mictlan, lots of micromanagement I hear, and lots of sacrificial virgins, leather, whips, etc.

I'll even post good hot stories involving blood slaves turned dominitrix that don't mention anyone by name, and if I'm in, no one can get an unfair disadvantage by asking me to sub for them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

(Since dominitrixes don't sub. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

[DragonFire11]

Oh, well you see I never really read these Posts closely. So that said, and to conform with the rules that were so obviously insufficiently promulgated, I hereby select, um, uh, er . . . Caelum. I so declare and sayeth that I have never ever played this race, or even met this race in battle, and I have never seen a player actually win a game with this team. I bet they are a bunch of sissy little do-gooding angles that don't actually believe in doing real work, you know the bloody stuff. All tips, especially prior to god formation, are welcome. And no, I'm not going to consult some intel forum to get the lowdown - remember I don't believe in real work.

[Grim Knight]

As far as Zen's Spell Mod goes I think it is a little too much of a work in progress, it makes some pretty significant changes to Spells and Summoned Creatures. If a majority wants to go with it that would be fine but my vote is for pretender mod only.

Mods: Zen's Pretender Only

Also not everyone has voted yet so those who have not should either announce an abstination, or vote for any aspects of the MP setup that they feel strongly about.

Thank You,
Grim Knight.

[deccan]

Let's do a retabulation:

Original Slugfesters:

Grim Knight - Marignon (host)
Panther - Abysia
Steerpike - Jontunheim
Pasha Dawg - Pangaea
Deccan - C'tis
Dragon Fire - Caelum (what, you want to get attacked early again?)
Krool Death - TBD

Baboune - Declined
Beorne - Not heard from.
Pickles - Not heard from.

New slugfesters:

Cainehill - Mictlan
Aku - Pythium

AFAIK, the current vote tends towards use of Zen's Pretender Mod, very difficult research, indies 9. Map choice should probably be Last after we get a final player count and see if we have any underwater nations.

[deccan]

And a note on victory conditions:

I find that a game with no victory conditions is too tedious. People will drop out rather than complete the game, so some kind of victory condition is probably best.

I've played a couple of games with VP based victory conditions, and I kind of dislike it because once a nation gets started, it's hard for the rest of the players to team up to stop this kind of victory because allied armies can't team up together to defend a weak VP province and everyone is forced to castle VP provinces.

This is why I prefer a victory condition based on a percentage of provinces controlled because no one can possibly castle everything and still expand unless they're already well ahead of everyone else.

I think the % of provinces required should probably be more than 50%, to give other players more of a chance to turn the tables, and less than 2/3 like I said earlier.

[Grim Knight]

Below is a listing of all the votes so far:


Grim Knight's Votes

Map: TBD
Mod: Zen's Pretender Mod v1.81
Victory: 2/3 Provinces
Sites: 50
H o F: 15
Research: Very Difficult
House Rules: Play a Nation you have never played MP before.
Indep Strength: 9
Host Speed: 24h QH
Graphs: Off
Everything Else: Leave at Default

Race: Marignon

Steerpike's Votes

Research: Very Difficult
Indep Strength: 9

Race: Jotunheim

The Panther's Votes

Map: TBD (Not Tyrande)
Mods: Zen's Pretender 1.81
Victory: Half the provinces
Sites: 50
HoF: 15
Research: Very difficult
House rules: Must take nation with no MP experience
Indies: 9
Score graphs: off
Host: 24h QH

Race: Abysia


PashaDawg's Votes

Map: Aduria (this map suggests victory point conditions)
Number of players: 10-12 (Aduria has a lot of room for water nations).
Mods: No (Later said he would not mind the pretender mod)
Victory: 2/3 or 60% Province Victory (Counted as 2/3 in Tally)
Sites: 45 or 50 (Counted as 50 in Tally)
HoF: 15
Research: Very difficult
House rules: Must take nation with no MP experience
Indies: 6
Score graphs: off (graphs off can be very fun)
Host: 24h QH

Race: Pangea.


deccan's Votes

Map: No preference.
Number of players: No preference.
Mods: Zen's Pretender Mod. (I know we had at least three GKs in this game, and it would be nice if there were a little more variety.)
Victory: More than 50% of provinces but less than 66% of Provinces
Sites: 50
HoF: 15
Research: Difficult (I already have a very difficult research game going. I can do another one, but be warned, it just means that everyone will take a fire 9 or water 9 blessing, which can be boring in its own way.)
House rules: Must take nation with no MP experience
Indies: 9 (punishes people who get too reckless about fast expansion)
Score graphs: off

Race: C'tis

Cainhill's Votes

Map: Not Tyrande

Race: Mictlan


The following Players have claimed a Race but have not voted on any other aspects.

KroolDeath's Votes

Race: Vanheim


Dragonfire's Votes

Race: Caelum


Aku's Vote's

Race: Pythium



If I got anything wrong or missed anything please let me know.

Again those who have not voted on anything other than race should either announce that you are abstaining or vote for any and all aspects of the MP setup that you feel strongly about, (Cainhill and Aku should feel free to vote as well).

I am going to try to PM Beorne and Pickles to see if they are interested in another game.

Thank You,
Grim Knight

[Grim Knight]

I am going to start the server now as the MP settings are not asked for until after all pretenders are uploaded.

The only difficulty that there may be with my server is the fact that I do not have an entirely static IP Address.

However since the IP only changes when my Cable Modem is power cycled it should not be a problem. The power goes out in my area only very rarely, and I never power cycle the modem myself unless there is a problem with my connection which is also very rare.

If there is a situation that results in a change of the IP I will be as prompt as possible in posting an update to this forum thread, or if we open a new thread once all the particulars of the game are sorted out, I would post to the new thread.

So anyone who is ready to upload their pretender may do so at the following address and port:

IP: 69.10.97.69
Port: 65000

Game Version on the server is 2.14

Remember though there is no hurry to upload pretender's as not everyone has voted on settings yet so the game will probably not be starting for at least another couple of days.

Thank You,
Grim Knight

[PashaDawg]

deccan said:
And a note on victory conditions:

I find that a game with no victory conditions is too tedious. People will drop out rather than complete the game, so some kind of victory condition is probably best.

I've played a couple of games with VP based victory conditions, and I kind of dislike it because once a nation gets started, it's hard for the rest of the players to team up to stop this kind of victory because allied armies can't team up together to defend a weak VP province and everyone is forced to castle VP provinces.

This is why I prefer a victory condition based on a percentage of provinces controlled because no one can possibly castle everything and still expand unless they're already well ahead of everyone else.

I think the % of provinces required should probably be more than 50%, to give other players more of a chance to turn the tables, and less than 2/3 like I said earlier.



Ok... you convinced me. Victory based on % of provinces controlled sounds better. I'm not too picky, but I think that either 2/3 or 60% would be better.

PASHA

[Steerpike]

I revoke my selection of Tyrande as a map, Pasha said it was pretty and ... well ...I like pretty things OK! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I'll play it in single player for fun.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
It's better to wait until everyones chosen anyway. Interestingly no ones chosen a water nation yet that could have an effect.
Choosing very difficult research might be an advantage for Jotun, so go for it boys.

[Beorne]

I want to play too!!
I'd like Man, and my only preferencies are:
- a not too huge map (for Man only-capitol problems)
- and using the Zen's Pretender Mod v1.81
Thank you!

[Cainehill]

Oh - I'm not actually in, I was joking about the Mictlan bit, especially as I don't qualify as a newish player.

[The Panther]

DragonFire11 said:
Oh, well you see I never really read these Posts closely. So that said, and to conform with the rules that were so obviously insufficiently promulgated, I hereby select, um, uh, er . . . Caelum. I so declare and sayeth that I have never ever played this race, or even met this race in battle, and I have never seen a player actually win a game with this team. I bet they are a bunch of sissy little do-gooding angles that don't actually believe in doing real work, you know the bloody stuff. All tips, especially prior to god formation, are welcome. And no, I'm not going to consult some intel forum to get the lowdown - remember I don't believe in real work.



OH NO!!!!! The rain of false horrors once again! Maybe we should have let him keep Arco... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Anyway, as for advice on the pretender, I have a nifty Ghost King design for Caelum that has already been highly proven in battle. The only problem, he cannot be used under the Zen mods, which is actually a GOOD thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[CuriousCat]

Is there room for a complete newbie as Arco?

[DragonFire11]

Here is the good news Panther: I don't even know what a false horror does or how to get them. Now that you mention them, I suppose I will look into it.

Isn't fun to play with the uninformed? Maybe I should have my young daughters play for me.

[Beorne]

Ok, if, but only if, Caine does not play, I'd like to keep Mitclan. Otherwise, Man.

[Grim Knight]

I think there is room for you CuriousCat, we are looking to get about 10 or so players and not all spots are claimed yet.

Grim Knight

[Cainehill]

Mictlan is all yours, Beorne; good luck.

[The Panther]

OK, with the addition of Aku and Curious Cat, and with Baboune declining and Pickles AWOL, we now have ten players in the game. But no water races. I wonder the significance of that...

Anyway, it seems that the map is pretty much the only major open question left now. Options are:
1. Aduria - 153 land + 34 water = 188 total
2. Cradle - 199 land + 22 water = 221 total
3. Europe - 134 total - I could not find the tga file on the net, but the map file on Zen's site says water nations have a significant advantage, so I doubt it works for us here with likely too much water places.
4. Karan - 142 land + 20 water = 162 total
5. Inland - 149 land + 5 water = 154 total

Cradle description says that players will not start on wasteland, swamp, magic site, or swamp. But there are no #nostart provinces on the list, so they must be hardcoded into the province type. I read somewhere that this does not always work on certain dom Versions. I tested it a small amount and this seemed to work as advertised, but I have not come close to knowing for sure. Anybody know the answer to this for certain?

Arduria says the intent is to be used with VPs, but this is not necessary. Puting in a province victory condition works just fine. There are 12 land and 2 sea starting locations on the map. Only one of these starting provinces is not very good (16). The only real problem with this map is that the starting locations near the poles have fairly poor-income adjacent provinces. But good for site searching, of course.

I know that Karan has a couple of few poor starting locations too, and it might need to be edited to even this out.

As for the lack of water race, both Aduria and Cradle have water mixed throughout the map with no blocks caused by lakes or oceans, making the lack of a water nation not overly important. Karan has most of the water bunched in the south.

Other map choices???

As for selecting the number of provinces required to win, you can generally pick a number ending in 0, 4, or 7. Sometimes 1, 3, and 6 are choices too. For example, here is a list of the options from 90 - 120:
91, 94, 97, 100, 104, 107, 110, 113, 117, 120

So, in conclusion, if we want a longer game, then the choice should be Cradle. If we want a shorter one, then Inland or Karan. Aduria is kind of a medium length map with its 188 provinces.

Right now, my vote is Cradle with about 125 provinces required for victory.

[PashaDawg]

1st: Welcome, CuriousCat, to the 2nd Newbie Slugfest.

2nd: I played a little of Zen's Europe Map. It looks fun, but it sounds like it would best to play that map without water nations. (The read-me says that water nations would have an unfair advantage.) It also looks pretty, which again is a big PLUS for me!!

[PashaDawg]

Ultimately, I would vote for maps in the following order:

1. ZenEurope, because I just love playing on maps of the "OLD world" and it looks wicked PRETTY PRETTY PRETTY. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

2. Adruia, while it is not quite as pretty and is not Europe, it looks wicked crazy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

3. Cradle, because it is still kinda pretty and kinda crazy and kinda zesty-spanky-pow-dunk-sassy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The math stuff is over my head - - - so I gotta grasp at aesthetics.

[PashaDawg]

Hmmmm... I just started a practice game on the Zen Europe map, and it placed Pan in the sea (but said the province was plains) (province 9). Hmmmm.

[PashaDawg]

Double hmmmm... gosh... Cradle IS easy on the eyes.

[CuriousCat]

Thanks for the welcome. I'm so new that I have no preferences. I'll be happy with whatever you all decide.

Again, thanks.

CC

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:
Cradle description says that players will not start on wasteland, swamp, magic site, or swamp. But there are no #nostart provinces on the list, so they must be hardcoded into the province type. I read somewhere that this does not always work on certain dom Versions. I tested it a small amount and this seemed to work as advertised, but I have not come close to knowing for sure. Anybody know the answer to this for certain?




The problem with nostart being encoded into the province type is that it becomes more likely that some provinces will be mis-coded, especially if any updates are done to the map, and it's much more difficult to verify, since you can't just grep for '#nostart'. Unfortunately the map editor doesn't use '#nostart', which is apparently why most of the maps don't have it.

I haven't heard anything about the hardcoding not working with certain dominions Versions (which doesn't mean it's not possible) but in any case, all your players should be using the same, latest, Version, so that shouldn't be an issue either way.

Personally, I think you can't go wrong with the Cradle map - it's probably my favorite based both on aesthetics and gameplay, while Zen's Europe is also gorgeous and seems perfect for a smaller quicker game. (If y'all want quick and dirty, Europe might be good even without any water nations - it's recommended that you either have both or neither water nation.)

[Grim Knight]

I vote for Cradle.

Grim Knight.

[deccan]

I vote for cradle too. I already have it so I won't need to download another one. Heh. Better clarify which Version of the .map file we will be using though, as there seems to be several...

[Aku]

I am willing to switch to a water race if you want to do Europe map lol. I never used either water race in mp either.

For the map picks I have only played inland and karan. I have no idea what the other maps are so I will just let you guys decide on a map.

[Grim Knight]

The .tga file should be the same for all Versions, as far as the .map file the one that I am refering to is the Version modified by Zen.

zencradlev14.map

This file is kind of difficult to locate as it is not posted on any of the sites that have maps for download, to get it I had to do a search of the Boards to find the Thread in which it was posted.

For ease of access in this instance I will attach the file to this post. The attached file is only the .map file as the .tga is easily found for download from www.illwinter.com (http://www.illwinter.com)

Grim Knight

[The Panther]

Aku said:
I am willing to switch to a water race if you want to do Europe map lol. I never used either water race in mp either.




Cradle will work quite well for a water race, and probably even ought to have one. There is a nice collection of water provinces on the left side of the map and even a bay deep into the map interior.

[Zen]

Zen is stingy with his maozzezz, precious. Precious, it burns us!

[The Panther]

I think we are supposed to do the cradle2 Version, which supposedly fixes some bugs in the allowed start locations from the earlier Versions (1 and 1.4?). All my tests so far have been on Version 2 of the map, and I have yet to find a totally screwball starting spot. That does not mean they ain't there, though.

Grim, you, as the host, are the only one who really needs the map file. Look at the one on the illwinter site labeled 'PhilD's fixed map' and see if it is a later Version than the zencradle14 one.

Everyone else just needs the tga file, I believe.

Zen, if you read this, can you elaborate on your Version 1.4? Is the Version 2 better?

[Grim Knight]

If the Date Modified Stamp in the .zip files is any indication then the zencradle14.map is the most recent.

The cradle2.map has a date modified of 04/24/2004

The zencradle14.map has a date modified of 07/11/2004

This is what I base my assumption of Zen's Version being the most recent.

Grim Knight

[Aku]

Switch my Pythium to Ryleh if we play a map that is acceptable for a water race.

[Grim Knight]

Current Players and Nations Selected List

Grim Knight - Marignon (host)
Panther - Abysia
Steerpike - Jontunheim
Pasha Dawg - Pangaea
Deccan - C'tis
Dragon Fire - Caelum
Krool Death - Vanheim
Beorne - Mictlan
Aku - Pythium or R'lyeh
Curious Cat - Arcoscephale

[Aku]

grim can you edit that post with the game settings also...and i guess just put any options not yet decided with a "?".

Thank you.

[DragonFire11]

Does anyone know if the special theme "return of the raptors" worthwhile or truly special?

[deccan]

DragonFire11 said:
Does anyone know if the special theme "return of the raptors" worthwhile or truly special?



You definitely don't want to take RotR. Very difficult research is already quite hard on base Caelum I think.

[Zen]

zencradle14 is the latest of my modification of Cradle.

I personally think it's a great .map for the tga. But some prefer the 'high chokepoint, no mobility" of the other map files associated with the map.

For those who are trying my europe map. Try www.techno-mage.com/~zen/zeneuropefinal.zip (http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/zeneuropefinal.zip) that has the final modifications of the map, including the neighbor error that Graeme found on my Last edit (damn misclicks).

Don't play with too much Zen stuff at once, it's not good for the brain!

[deccan]

Zen said:
Don't play with too much Zen stuff at once, it's not good for the brain!



Which is probably why we won't be using the spell mod! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Zen]

Actually the more I play with the Spellmod the more I enjoy the staging that I go through with the midlevel spells that I never used. It's not perfect, but it definitely increases the variability of the spells, summons and paths in my mind. But that may be I've just played a little too much dominions and play with/against only the most easily abusable and hard to counter strategies at the fastest possible speed.

[Aku]

do i need more than that attachment for the map to work because i get some error and it lists tga in the error message

I looked at the cradle maps on the official site and the downloads dont have a tga file.

I dont know wtf a tga file is but how do I get it for this map to work for me lol.

[Grim Knight]

Aku, cradle.zip from the Illwinter Maps Download page will contain the .tga that you need.

Grim Knight

[Aku]

Thanks Grim, that got it to work.

I made my Ryleh pretender also since it sounds like we will doing a map with water provinces.

[Grim Knight]

Current Vote Tally

Mods: Zen's Pretender Mod v1.81 has 4 For and 0 Against.

Victory Conditions: 3 Votes for 2/3 Provinces, and 1 for 1/2 Provinces. 0 Votes Against Province Victory.

Sites: 5 votes for 50, 0 Firm Votes for anything else.

HoF: 5 votes for 15, 0 votes against

Research: 4 Votes for Very Difficult, 1 votes for Difficult.

House Rules: 4 votes for Nation with no MP Experience, 0 votes against.

Indies: 4 votes for 9, 1 vote for 6.

Graphs: 4 votes for off, 1 for On

Host Speed: 4 votes for 24h QH, 0 votes against

Map: 4 firm votes for Cradle (Zen's Version), So far no firm votes for any other map.

So that Means the Firm Game Settings are as Follows:

Mods: Zen's Pretender Mod v1.81
Sites: 50
HoF: 15
Research: Very Difficult
House Rule: Must be using nation you never played MP Before (If you only played them A Few Turns then it does not count as MP Experience).
Indies: 9
Graphs: Off
Host Speed: 24h QH
Victory Conditions: 2/3 Provinces, on Cradle this calculates to 145 out of 221 provinces.
Map: Cradle of Zen

Grim Knight

[deccan]

I have a question, if we have graphs off, then we can't see how close a particular nation is to victory?

[Aku]

Yeah deccan has a good point.

I am going to do some votes.

Mods: Zens pretender mod v1.81
Sites: 50
HoF: 15
Graphs: On
Host Speed: 24 hour quickhost

[deccan]

Actually it won't be too bad if the victory condition is by % of provinces. I assume that if a nation manages to grab control of over 50% of total provinces it ought to be pretty obvious.

If victory is by number of VPs though, graphs off might be problematic.

[Grim Knight]

Currently looking at Victory by Provinces with some confusion about exactly what percentage to use.

Grim Knight

[The Panther]

Graphs off for VP does not work as well, for it can be hard to determine exactly how many a side has. But for provinces, this is not an issue. Even if all your spies are caught, you will have a good idea of how large a territory each of the game leaders have. You will be trading inforation with your allies to get an even closer tally if needed. And when somebody is eliminated, pretty much everybody in the game will know who did it and adjust the province count appropriately.

In my only other game with graphs off, I remember sending spies to the edge of Abysian (Aku) territory to get an idea of where his border with Man and Pangaea was. I knew about his border with R'lyeh since I was allied with that watery race. So I made an informed estimate of how many provinces Aku had. We then exchanged province count with each other over MSN and he had something like 22, which fit my estimate of 20-25.

I remember watching a big battle (on the other side of the map from me) between Pasha Dawg and Boron, and they were both issuing false proclamations about it. So I took screen shots and posted it on the thread. Aku remarked that my Pythium spy was a long ways from home, which he was. I also recall keeping that spy alive for something like 40 turns. He eventually got caught, as they all do at some point.

Unlike army size, gems, income, dominion and, to a lesser extent VPs, province count is incredibly difficult to mask whether the graphs are on or off. In my opinion, being able to hide these other graphs is what makes it attractive to me. I will have my spies roaming to keep tabs on all my neighbors regardless of the score graph state.

[Boron]

May i join too ?
I would like to try machaka http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Pasha will love this setting . Reversed roles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif .

That Pasha , Aku and Panther are in alone guarantees me that it will be a fun game .

I am awaiting the mighty Spider Lords revenge who shapeshifted now into a pangenean God http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Aku]

If it helps any...I am no longer going to be a land race since I switched to Ryleh to give our map a water race. So it would be the same amount of land nations if that helps the host's decision to allow another player in.

Oh and my Ryleh Pretender I just finished. Should we start uploading?

[PashaDawg]

The Panther said:
I remember watching a big battle (on the other side of the map from me) between Pasha Dawg and Boron, and they were both issuing false proclamations about it.




http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gifLIES!!! <froth> LIES!!! <froth> LIES!!! It shocks the conscience how PANTHER ignores the facts. BAH!! The GREAT SPIDER LORD won that MP easily, and all trembled before his secret doom weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Boron said:
I would like to try machaka http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Pasha will love this setting . Reversed roles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif .

I am awaiting the mighty Spider Lords revenge who shapeshifted now into a pangenean God http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



/threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif Something will be lurking in the woods, biding its time... waiting for the right time to strike the little fluffy machaka bunny-spider... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif

[Grim Knight]

I think there is room for you Boron, so welcome.

No one has uploaded yet so if you want you can still cast your votes, the two uncertain elements at this time are the Map (So far 2 votes for Cradle and None against but this is not yet a clear majority as there are about 6 or 7 members of the group who have been voting, so once we get about 4 votes for something I consider it the obvious choice.)

The next is Victory Conditions, we have clearly deceided in favor of a Province based victory condition but it is still unclear as to the exact percentage desired by the majority, we have 2 votes for 2/3 or 66%, 1 vote for 1/2 or 50%, and 1 vote for more than 50% but less than 66%.

Everyone, Server is up so you can upload when ready.

IP: 69.10.97.69
Port: 65000

Grim Knight

[deccan]

Grim Knight said:
... and 1 vote for more than 50% but less than 66%.




If that's me, I hereby change my vote to 66% so we should have a clear decision.

[Boron]

Grim Knight said:
I think there is room for you Boron, so welcome.
Grim Knight


Cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif .
With victory settings and the other settings i am indifferent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
Cradle is imo a nice map so i vote for cradle too .

Uploading probably today afternoon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

[Steerpike]

The Scene: Aboy with his Grandfather.
"Grandfather why has the river turned yellow today?"
"Well my boy." Taking a sip from his glass of the yellow frothy 'water'."You know we are downstream from the province of the giants, occassionally when a being so strong emerges he unites those mighty beings."
"How does this make the river yellow?"
"When the giants are united they, well... have a party they kind of drink a lot... and" takes another sip"well the river Ord is the closest thing to a toilet they have. Never number twos you understand" he gives the boy a stern look.
"There must be a lot of them grandfather if they turn a whole river to gold."
"Gold indeed!"the old man smiles a slightly drunken smile."No there is'nt too many of em but they are big boy, that why they call em giants."
"Are they mighty?"
"Yes boy they are very mighty."
"Would they be as strong as Hulfgar?"
The old man looks towards a 40ish balding militia commander with a belly twice the size of his hips with ill diguised contempt."The 'Average' giant would be a little bit tougher than Hulfgar boy. They are fearsome to behold"
"Well I'm not afeared I know our gaurds will drive these Giants off, look at them!"
The old man casts his eye over the 60 or so militia and shortbowman arrayed before him with derision and takes a huge gulp of the river 'water'." They are worthy of our respect my boy God rest their souls."
"Who is this 'being' that might have united them?"
"Its hard to say boy, could be a standing stone steeped in magic or a mighty Worm with none or a great sage who researches the mysteries of spellore or maybe even some bum with a golden tounge, these giants arn't all that bright ya know."
"What does it or he mean to do."
"Or she boy or she, well if the river runs yellow and the young men of the village pass out drunk in the street it means only one thing... a new pretender has arrived. and if one new pretender arrives it means a whole damn fleet of em have come, DadNabbitt!!!.It means War boy and you have to be aligned to a pretender or you suffer terribly, No you have to be aligned to the winning pretender or you suffer terribly."
"Who are we aligned to Grandfather?"
Sighs."We are aligned to the Independents boy means our assses are hanging out there in the breeze, if we were in the province of Solaris we might be OK for a while but No we have miltia protecting us...LUCKY US... AND we are right next to the giants home province..." He looks at a now rather scared looking boy." Its not so bad little one just make sure you get your mother to make a good fleecy water lined jumper to wear, youll be Ok. Now get along and do your chores Grandfather has some drinking to do."



GO GIANTS!!!!

[Aku]

I vote for the cradle map too so we have the vote finished for it.

About victory conditions...games usually always tend to have a winner you can outright see. Comon if one empire has over half the map they probably cant be stopped unless the other half all unite to try to stop him. I say we just play it out and see what happens.

I am going to do a quick run in sp to test my ryleh pretender then upload it. So far only Jotumheim has uploaded so far.

[Saeter]

Is it then too late to join? I'd like to join as man if possible.

[Aku]

We currently have 11 players for the map and I am not sure if the map we chose can handle more. It is Grim's decision though since he is in charge of this game.

Also my pretender is uploaded now.

So that makes it Jotum and Ryleh are uploaded.

[Grim Knight]

Sorry Seater, I think we are all full up. The Cradle Map with 10 land and 1 water race is about as full as it can get, the designer of the Map lists it as for 8 to 10 players so we are already over the recommended limit as it is.

My pretender is uploded now as well.

Grim Knight

[Grim Knight]

The Initiate rushes frantically up the steep, gleaming white, steps of the House of Fiery Justice. He is panting loudly as he holds his red robes up over his knees to avoid triping over them in his haste.

At Last he reaches the top of the stairs and bursts through the doors, only to be imediatly stoped by two Men-at-Arms who demand to know his business.

After panting helplessly for a couple of minutes he manages to gasp out, "River ... gasp ... Yellow! Must ... pant ... tell ... our lord."

"Alright then," mutters the guard. "Why didn't ya say so in the first place?" he asks rhetorically. "You'll have to go talk to Inquisitor Ponce Pendergrast, to get an appointment with High Inquisitor Ortega Otwell, who will in turn decide if you warrant an audience with Caramont the Cardinal, then if he deems your news important enough he will pass it along to our great lord." He then waves the initiate through into the magnificent domed entry hall of the building.

As the Initiate begins to walk past the guard points across the room and to the right, "Start by talking to Sargent Santiago, he will decide if you can speak to Ponce. Good Luck." He then returns his attention to the doors he is charged with guarding.

12 hours and many appointments later the young initiate is finally in front of Cardinal Caramont.

"Speak up boy and be quick about it, you have no idea how freaking busy I am." Says the Cardinal as he stands still with his arms out to his sides so the seamstress atending him can measure him for a new robe.

The tired and frustrated young initate speaks up in a sonorous monotone. "The river has turned yellow."

"Well why in the Great Lord's name didn't you say so. Jumpin Jehosefat kid, how long ago was this noted!" he says as he hurriedly shoos the seamtress out of his way and rushes towards you.

"About three quarters of a day by now." The initiate gets out with a distinct sound of treipedation in his voice.

"Dang nabbit kid. Do you realize what this means? You do don't you? You must if you left your river watching post to come here. This is of the utmost importance, why did it take so long to get to my ears?" Yells the Cardinal in a voice that sounds close to hysteria.

"Well first I had to get an appointment with Inquisitor Pendergrast, so I could get an appointment with ..." the initiate starts to explain.

"Flames from the Sky kid, never mind the details, I must tell our great lord immediatly." He says as runs out of his office past an honor guard of 40 Men-at-Arms and 4 Royal Guards standing at attention in his Foyer.

The iniate picks up his robes and hurries to keep up, as they exit the room and run down a hall lined with countless more royal guards the Cardinal keeps emitting a steady stream of curses each more colorful than the Last.

As the enter the Foyer of the Great Lord, which is only accessible after passing through the Cardinals Foyer and the well guarded hall, Cardinal Caramont Tells the initiate to, "Wait for me here!"

The Cardinal Rushes past the guards and into the personal chambers of the Great Lord, Grim Knight, the one unseen by any but the Cardinal Himself. In his haste the Cardinal does not even pause to knock.

A few minutes later a great and powerful voice his heard booming forth from the Great Lords Chambers, "If the river runs Yellow it can mean only one thing. The pretender of the great Jotun Oafs has arrived. So it has begun if the Jotuns have a pretender than doubtless all of the great nations do as well. I was hoping for more time to plan and plot. Alas, it was not to be. Prepare the Army and begin the Attack... we must first bring all these stinking Indepents into the warmth of my embrace. Stoke the Fires the Inquisition must spread. My army shall march at Dawn!"

The iniate collapses on the floor in exhaustion and absolute wonder, he got to hear the voice of his God.

The next morning when he awoke he found himself on a Horse Marching at the front of an Army with a note informing him of his promotion to Witch Hunter and his command of the Army behind him. At the bottom of the note were written the omnious words... "Do not fail me, kid." The note was signed by Cardinal Caramont.

Grim Knight

[The Panther]

Grim,

You, as host, ought to go ahead and start a new thread. This one is long enough as it is. You can post the players and races, the settings, the IP and port number, and anything else pertnent to the upcoming match. Just pick the number of provinces requred to win and let us know what you selected. Also, put in the title that the game is not open for new players.

I think Cradle has been agreed to by enough players already so we might as well use it. I looked at the Zen Version 1.4 of the map and it seemed to work extremely well as far as starting provinces. It is a good choice for the map file, imho.

Good writing by you and Steerpike, by the way. I have a distinct feeling that I am really going to enjoy this particular game. I too am putting together a pre-game post, but all the details are not yet worked out.

Also, I think that you and Steerpike both should move your Posts to the new thread so we have everything there for a good start to the AARs.

My pretender is mostly done now and will be uploaded sometime this evening.

Panther

[Grim Knight]

I have started the New Thread so Future Posts on this Game Should go there, Thread Title is Another Newbie Slugfest.

Grim Knight.

[Saeter]

Grim Knight said:
Sorry Seater, I think we are all full up.



Sure, no problem. I'll find another game. In case someone doesn't show up just send me a note.

/Saeter