Something different...

[Mind Elemental]

So as the king of sandbox strategy gamers (an acquaintance once described my play style, very aptly, as "enacting a story"), I'm fond of playing default theme Pythium with a Virtue, and using neither 'evil' magic (death/blood rituals/spells/items, spells that target 'civilians' -- ie. population, etc.), nor things that are really game-y and wouldn't be too fun to read about in a fantasy novel (i.e. wishing for endless Doom Horrors, clamshelling, extreme micromanagement). In other words, I'm playing the Forces of Good (with a capital G). ^_^

Does anyone have any suggestions? Because Vestals are such a joke, I'm thinking there's no point in going for Air 9. Instead, I might go for Air 7, then invest the points saved in Growth and Fortune (1 each, for flavour), putting one each in Order and Productivity, and then probably putting the remaining 2 into Fortune. That, or putting one into each of Fortune and Productivity -- I tend to be swimming in gold by the lategame, but resources are still a problem when churning out Emeralds.

What do you think?

[Tuna]

Put all in magic scale and research master enslave. Then set up a communion squad and you can be the ultimate force of good: You dont kill them, just persuade them to join on your side!

[Argitoth]

No, master enslave is an evil spell which has no persuasion involved.

If you want forceful persuasion, you get charm. But whoever said roleplaying "good" was a smart idea?

[Endoperez]

For a "good" game you could also try Marignon, make lots of crossbows and protect your Knights of the Chalice (+flagellants) with Air blessing... But if it is Pythium you want, then you should use communion a lot. That is one of the main strengths of Pythium, but cooperation is what good guys are known in most heroic adventures.

If you have troubles using up all your money you don't have enough castles. Especially as Pythium can recruit both Theurgs and Theurg Communicants from all their castles. If you think Wrath of God is good enough, then have strong magic scale and go for it! When you reach Evocation 6 you hopefully have Arch Theurg with 3 Air and another with 4 Astral. Research construction for Starshine Skullcap and Bag of Winds, give both to your 4S2A Arch-theurg and watch the fun.

Also, remember to choose evil enemies. Ermor, C'tis, Mictlan, Jotunheim, Abysia, maybe Vanheim and Pangaea too. If you choose their themes here are (most) evil ones: Abysia (both), Vanheim (Helheim), Jotunheim (Niefelheim), Ulm (Black Forest), C'tis (Desert Tombs), Marignon (Diabolical Faith), two Ermor themes or Pangaea (Carrion Woods) if you want a challenge. R'lyeh could also be seen as evil.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Endoperez said:
Also, remember to choose evil enemies. Ermor, C'tis, Mictlan, Jotunheim, Abysia, maybe Vanheim and Pangaea too. If you choose their themes here are (most) evil ones: Abysia (both), Vanheim (Helheim), Jotunheim (Niefelheim), Ulm (Black Forest), C'tis (Desert Tombs), Marignon (Diabolical Faith), two Ermor themes or Pangaea (Carrion Woods) if you want a challenge. R'lyeh could also be seen as evil.



You forgot Pythium in the list. Hydras are evil (just ask Herakles), both Pythium themes use Hydras, therefore both Pythium themes are evil. QED.

[Vynd]

Nagot Gick Fel said:
You forgot Pythium in the list. Hydras are evil (just ask Herakles), both Pythium themes use Hydras, therefore both Pythium themes are evil. QED.



Not to mention all those Communion Slaves that the mages suck dry and cast aside. Down with Pythium! Up with Ermor!

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Vynd said:
Not to mention all those Communion Slaves that the mages suck dry and cast aside.



Damn, how did I forget that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

I believe Communion would be just called 'vampirism' in mainstream litterature - or maybe even 'psychic vampirism', which sounds even worse. I find the blood slave status much more enviable: these are granted a quick death, and are so heavily drugged they don't even notice. On the other hand a communion slave's death is always a long and painful experience.

[Reverend Zombie]

Maybe there should be a chance for communion slave rebellion..."when you find your servant is your master..."

[Vynd]

Reverend Zombie said:
Maybe there should be a chance for communion slave rebellion..."when you find your servant is your master..."



Haha, that'd make for a wacky Pythium theme. Communicants and Gladiators running the show...

[Mind Elemental]

[/quote]

Haha, that'd make for a wacky Pythium theme. Communicants and Gladiators running the show...

[/quote]

Do we have any volunteers? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif I can just imagine Spartacus as a national hero.

I can deal with the hydras problem easily (and the gladiator one, too; after all, having people fight to the death in the arenas for your pleasure isn't exactly Good) -- by not recruiting them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I like the Wrath of God and the enslave mind suggestions! Re: communicants -- well, they are volunteers, they are paid better than Emerald Guards, and one fine day, after their Pretender has achieved godhood, they might become theurgs themselves... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I will also definitely be playing against the 'evil' AI opponents, although taking on R'lyeh might be problematic before the late-game, when I had magic/items that'd allow me to go into the sea and show them who's boss. I might also throw in the others, too, for more of a challenge -- what do you think?

Re: castles, do you mean that I should build them so as to hurt each individual fortress' resource production, in the interests of being able to churn out national mages/troops from a greater number of less productive provinces?

[Boron]

Mind Elemental said:
I like the Wrath of God and the enslave mind suggestions! Re: communicants -- well, they are volunteers, they are paid better than Emerald Guards, and one fine day, after their Pretender has achieved godhood, they might become theurgs themselves... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


And those who died died a fine martyr death . Can there be any better good deed than dieing for your god ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

And after their pretender succeeded they are rewarded in paradise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif .

I prefer though the sabbath slave which is honored after death either with endless torture if it is a really evil god or with becoming a demon allowed to torture the others http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . So the sabbath slave's hell should be at least more interesting then the communion slave's heaven http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif .

Hell is always better then heaven according to common belief . Ooops that was only Southpark http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Vicious Love]

Endoperez said:
C'tis



Said, but failed to justify. Honestly, why everyone always hasslin' me lizards?
I mean, even working with the vague, not-at-all-rigorous, common usage meaning of "evil", I fail to see what's so bad about the little guys. Is this about enslaving the predator lizards?
Abysia are unabashedly evil, even more so than all the nations based on actual civilizations, and Ermor's classic mix of hubris, myopia and, well, stupidity, would be called evil by most, but whassadeal with all this reptile-bashing?

[Vicious Love]

Endoperez also said:
...Vanheim and Pangaea...Vanheim (Helheim)...Marignon (Diabolical Faith)...(Carrion Woods) if you want a challenge. R'lyeh could also be seen as evil.



Not touching this with a ten-foot ethical oversimplification dis... erm... combobulator. Seldom does a game of Dom 2 degenerate into good vs. evil. Or even evil vs. evil.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Vicious Love said:
I mean, even working with the vague, not-at-all-rigorous, common usage meaning of "evil", I fail to see what's so bad about the little guys. Is this about enslaving the predator lizards?



Cultural difference. My neighbor's daughter think Koreans are evil (since she was told they use to eat dogs). I guess you could find Indian people who don't like us to eat beefsteak too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Cainehill]

Nagot Gick Fel said:

Vicious Love said:
I mean, even working with the vague, not-at-all-rigorous, common usage meaning of "evil", I fail to see what's so bad about the little guys. Is this about enslaving the predator lizards?



Cultural difference. My neighbor's daughter think Koreans are evil (since she was told they use to eat dogs). I guess you could find Indian people who don't like us to eat beefsteak too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



What do you mean, "use(d) to"? Gai-go-ki (like bul-go-ki only it isn't beef) is still eaten in the Koreas; even in the cities people are very protective of their dogs and cats and don't let them loose where they might wind up on the dinner table.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Cainehill said:
What do you mean, "use(d) to"?



Probably badly translated French http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif. I just meant 'they eat dog meat often'.

[Endoperez]

Vicious Love said:

Endoperez said:
C'tis



Said, but failed to justify. Honestly, why everyone always hasslin' me lizards?
I mean, even working with the vague, not-at-all-rigorous, common usage meaning of "evil", I fail to see what's so bad about the little guys. Is this about enslaving the predator lizards?
Abysia are unabashedly evil, even more so than all the nations based on actual civilizations, and Ermor's classic mix of hubris, myopia and, well, stupidity, would be called evil by most, but whassadeal with all this reptile-bashing?



Well, nothing much. Just this use of necromantic magic (Utterdark, Burden of Time) coupled with nature magic (Haunted Forest), which can be seen as a way to cause misery to all others and make life happier for themselves. Then this little teacher-student pact they had with Ermor, the fact that they like to either poison all of us or raise us as undead (Miasma/ Desert Tombs) when they get a chance and the fact that they train assasins that happen to also be necromancers (weak, but still). Oh, and the fact that they won't know a real god from a false one even if the real one kills their false one in straight battle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Vicious Love]

Hey, necromancy was fine before Ermor's ineptitude gave it a bad name. No sauromancer would dream of actually casting Burden of Time, just as no Abysian would consider casting Resist Fire, despite access to the respective spells in question.
As for assassins and haunted forests, both seem like pretty legitimate defensive measures to me. You're just jealous because C'tis was building cities back when Eldergate was a nook in a mountainside and Pangaea was still struggling to figure out that whole mating thing.
Also, C'tis' god is better than yours. I have proof.

Edit: Oh, and the miasma qualifies as no more or less than a sound defensive strategy, as well.

[Mind Elemental]

UPDATE: After getting smashed by a house full of AIs again, I think I WILL go for max Order and Magic next time around. My field armies can beat the living daylights out of their large armies (since as we all know, they opt for hordes of low-quality troops), but that doesn't help me when each AI player is marching several armies at me from every direction at once. >_< Not to mention that in that game, my principes managed to kill my Virtue with javelin friendly fire!

Hopefully, in my next game, if I rush through Evocation and then Construction, then abuse Staff of Storms/Wrathful Skies, I should be able to deal with the AI hordes by simply sending in an Arch Theurg, a few communicants, and some Spring Hawks to deal with most AI armies.

[Vicious Love]

Mind Elemental said:
UPDATE:
Hopefully, in my next game, if I rush through Evocation and then Construction, then abuse Staff of Storms/Wrathful Skies, I should be able to deal with the AI hordes by simply sending in an Arch Theurg, a few communicants, and some Spring Hawks to deal with most AI armies.



I think a castle or two might buy you all the time you need to let your main army react.

[Mind Elemental]

Problem is, the main army can only be at one place at one time -- castles help, but they're not enough. Or at least, they WEREN'T enough. Hmm...

[Vicious Love]

Allrighty, castles + splitting your army(Despite resulting attrition) + preemptive strikes to force your enemy to split his own armies. Sound good?