New Dom3 races! Post suggestions here!

[Calistas]

I think we should have some furries (http://www.vexen.co.uk/human/furry.html)! What more could one want??

"Wrowl!"
______\________________
http://fursuit.timduru.org/dirlist/InTheNews/InnerFilth/article/images/cash-furry-giza.gif

It's a whole new market to sell to as well! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif ...so come on, I've posted my idea, you post yours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Cal

[liga]

I'm more serious ... but I would like to see/play a rat-society like the WHFB Skaven ... and also I really miss the dwarves!

good play
Liga

[Calistas]

Furries say "hiss!"

Ahh well. Insert picture of a furry in a rat costume.

Hehehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But yes, would be fun.

Peter

[Wauthan]

Would't mind seeing somekind of "tunnelrunner" race myself. Or a disease theme faction to challenge Ermor and Pangea CW for undead supremacy. A dinorider theme for C'tis could perhaps draw a crowd. Since a new waternation perhaps even in the process of creation I don't need to wish for one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Edi]

Standard Ulm is as close to Dwarves as can be reasonably required, the only difference between them is flavor texts. Almost everything else that could be reasonably suggested is going to be of the generic fantasy cliche variety (orcs, elves, gnomes, halflings, draconians, all have been done). We've already got elves in the form of Tuatha Man and less so with Vanheim. Halflings are present as independent poptypes. So are trolls, they just need to be enabled. Jotunheim includes goblins alongside giants too.

I have a hard time even thinking of any ideas that have not already been done several times over. The frostlings that made an appearance in Age of Wonders and the Syron and Demon nations in AoW:SM were new stuff, but ripping those off would require permission from Triumph Studios.

I suppose a barbarian nation could be cobbled together from some of the indepedents. The basic barbarians, tribal warriors, archers and cavalry, and certain Indep mages (cloud mage, moon mage, enchantresses and witches) would make it possible, but such a nation would have to be magically weak to be thematic. That could be compensated for by maybe having them able to recruit some of the lower end summons type monsters as sacred units (thinking of drakes here, mostly), or similar that could give them some parity. Maybe having some stealth troops too, then they'd be similar to Pangaea in some respects.

The Amazon nation that has been done as a mod for Dom2 is looking like a good candidate that I suppose will make an appearance. I also would not mind seeing a second lizard nation based on the predatory ones enslaved by C'tis. Eliminate death magic, give them elementals and nature instead and it'd work. I was actually half-seriously contemplating making a mod that would have done just this, but I'm too lazy and unskilled to do the graphics work required. If I had some graphics base templates to go from, I might even do that, but so many other things to do...

An angelic nation to serve as a counterpart to Mictlan could be another new one, some human troops and various angel summons the same way there are lots of blood summons now. This become especially feasible if divine and unholy magic are revamped to more resemble the others, or else it could be done by using astral as the benevolent counterpart to blood (especially appropriate, as blood combos seem to be thematically corruptions of the pure forms of other paths, witness Fallen Angel, for example).

Edi

[Boron]

I would love to see a new undead nation with quality undeads . So either a vampire nation with vampires , werewolfes , ghosts , liches etc. or a undead beast nation which is led by undead dragons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

[deccan]

Drow swordsmen! Drow priestesses! Drow mages! Driders! (And not puny humans riding on spiders either!)

[Chazar]

Actually I like Fantasy stuff, but I've found it very refreshing that Dom2 didnt include Orces & Elves et al. I think it's pretty cute that it orients itself at more historic myths than the usual DnD-stuff, making it much more unique...


That aside, before making up a new theme for a new race, one should rather consider their new strategic abilities, e.g. I could envision a subterrean race having something like the "stealthy"-ability called "digger": A "digger" commander and all his "digger" mininons can be ordered to target a distant province. They then "dig-in" and a few turns later they suddenly pop-up in the target province. So strategically, it would be better than stealth, since those units could not be detected by patrollers (and faster) and it would be much worse than teleporting, since it would not be instant, but taking some turns (a fixed amount regardless of distance maybe). Units once ordered to dig-in should not be accessible until they appear at their destination, so diggin would require some strategical foresight, since one could not stop those tunnelers once they were set to home in on their target...

Or one could improve upon flying nations, by adding a nation whose natives innately have some limited teleport possibilites. Maybe all their commanders should have a minor astral skill or other severe offsets for the added mobility...

[Kristoffer O]

I suppose the Bandar tiger riders qualify as furries. You can even se their sideburns.

[Edi]

deccan said:
Drow swordsmen! Drow priestesses! Drow mages! Driders! (And not puny humans riding on spiders either!)


*kills deccan*

Infidel! The Drow are absolutely the Last thing EVER that I want to see in Dominions. They were cool in AD&D, but ever since the Icewind Dale and Dark Elf trilogies, everyone and their dog has felt it necessary to stick them in all fantasy, and I'm goddamn sick and tired of it. Machaka as a concept is much more interesting than the drow. Using them would be stale beyond words. Drow do not imnsho belong in Dominions.

Kristoffer, are the tiger riders something akin to the tigrans of AoW2 or the tigermen seen briefly in Raymond E. Feist's Magician books? I was thinking that a felinoid nation would be cool, and seems I'm not to be disappointed...

Edi

[RedRover]

(I assume a new water nation is coming, so no more suggestions there.)

Here are a few candidates for new nations:

1. Make the Ashikaga Shogunate an official nation—that is, separate it from T’ien Ch’i so both can show up on the same board. Ramp up MP tests for balance on this one, and blunt the fatal weakness Cainehill mentioned.

1a. A new Oriental fantasy nation populated by spirit animals, ogres/oni, kami, tengu, and similar spirit/supernatural types, and mixing Chinese and Japanese fantasy traditions. Sort of an Oriental Pangaea, based on Elemental magics. Maybe Mistress Centipede as one of the pretenders. (She’s like Lloth, but half centipede instead of spider—something like this appeared in the first episode of the Inuyasha anime series, but I got my own soft pLastic figure of this creature years ago from Archie McPhee’s—and you have to see their Cat Buddha—another Pretender wannabe IMHO.)

2. Add the classic Arabian Nights nation. Basically a Caliphate with irregular Bedouin-like auxiliaries. Magic would be Air + Fire. Jann elites. Flavor magic items (Ebony Horse, etc.). There was a thread on this one.

3. Add a quasi-historical Ottoman Turkish Nation—Janissaries! Maybe Earth + Air. Cf. Tim Powers Drawing of the Dark novel.

4. Classic Egyptian nation—Astral + Death magic. Jackal elite warriors. Mummies. Scorpion King Pretender. Possibly do a “what if” that extends the motif/tech into the medieval period, similar to Andre Norton’s Wraiths of Time novel.

5. A Cthulhoid nation, cold-based, using the Mi-Go/Shuggoth (Lovecraft’s Mountains of Madness).

6. Freakland: A nation built around the Freak Lord pretender (and others, like maybe an Eater of the Dead, etc). High Growth scale. Crossbreeds are breeding true, and Freakland nation-specific spells can convert captured units into additional, augmented freaks. Instead of killing population like undead, they could convert human populations into freak populations. Blood + Nature. Maybe converts Blood Slaves into advanced freaks.

7. Maybe Swiss cantons with a generous slice of Central European fantasy. A legendary crossbow-wielding Hero is a must! (A long shot but, after all, No Ask = No Tell.)

[Edi]

There already is an Egyptian flavored nation: C'tis. C'tis seems to be a cross between Egyptian myths and the Stygians from Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, just with humans switched for lizards.

There is also already a Cthulhoid nation, R'lyeh. It doesn't get any more Cthulhu than that.

Arabian nights and the two oriental nations are good suggestions, however. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edi

[deccan]

Edi said:
*kills deccan*




http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Cohen]

I'd like to see a Tibetan Monk race with warrior monks, and ascets, and they can call in aid the powerful mystical tapyrs (that once they were bigger and gifted with uber intelligence and magical powers).

[Kristoffer O]

Uberintelligent TAPYRS of vast magical powers is a must in any good fantasygame. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . They are not yet implemented. Until it is you'll have to do with the Catoblepas.

Tibetans never were warrior monks and tapyrs live in South America unless I'm mistaken http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

BTW, have you ever seen the burial of a tibetan monk. Carrion birds eat the dead monk while the other monks sit and watch. It's a rather ghastly show, even on film.

[Hakko]

Warrior traditions in Tibet stem from the pre-Buddhist Bon religion. There is a strong strain of shamanistic demon worship in Tibet even today.

A Kabbalistic nation might work: strong astral and earth (golem construction) and a strong line in angelology, good research and priests, weak conventional troops. Flavor troops might be beefed up slingers, zealots, spearmen, rabbis, Masters of the Zohar, Anointed Champion, etc.

[Gandalf Parker]

There is another direction we could come at this from. Im trying to come up with a missing "Category" and drawing a blank. What niche would a new nation fill? Or what niche is abit light in its coverage? We seem to have adequate options for:....
flying
undead
high defense
high research
high offense
heat
cold
water
reptile
avian
amphibian
religious power
swarm tactics
barbarian horde tactics
stealth tactics

OK a 3rd water nation will be good. That will provide some variety to games.

The only one I can come up with would be one trying to make more use of mounted troops.

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, interesting. I've never heard of the Bon religion. Is it prehistoric? Oral tradition? Connections with Shambala myth?

Do you know any good sources?

[Kristoffer O]

Found some sites and books on the net. Thanks anyway!

[Calistas]

Ninjas and Pirates of course!

[Huntsman]

Edi said:
There already is an Egyptian flavored nation: C'tis. C'tis seems to be a cross between Egyptian myths and the Stygians from Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, just with humans switched for lizards.




Good call. Howard's world is ripe with great ideas for new nations. Gonna have to dig up my old Conan books...

[Vicious Love]

... and more vikings. We've been over this, Calistas.

Anyway, if we're just indiscriminately adding in historical and semihistorical human nations, I wouldn't object to seeing something vaguely Polynesian. If Dom 3 ends up having proper naval combat, rather than just submarine combat, this might be extra-fuzzy. In a good way.
Proper, folklore-heavy eastern Europe(Era of your choice) might be nice, if it doesn't overlap BF Ulm too much, and there's always something to be said for India. Furthermore, please make T'ien Ch'i even more ubercool than they are at present. Thanks.

I'd also like to see existing nations changed by the Ascension Wars. For instance(And this is a very particular instance which by no means begins to encapsulate the whole), you'd assume a few predator lizards woulda found their way into the other nations' societies, rather than remaining nothing more than a C'tissian slave race. Especially if certain otherwise feeble nations end up using them as the backbone of their armies on very hard research games.
Ditto regarding humanbred Abysians. We assume they're anatomically compatible and, whether conquerors or conquered, it's safe to assume at least some of them worked their way into the gene pool of the postwar generations, adding a bit of ethnic and possibly cultural diversity to, oh, say... T'ien Ch'i. They'd never have seen that coming.

Lastly, I think it might be both strategically and thematically interesting to have a nation that somehow changes, in significant ways, with the passing of the seasons. No matter how you interpret a suggestion that vague, the results are all sorts of cool rolled into one. Of course, this might just be an expression of my wanting to have terrain and other environmental conditions have more of an impact on gameplay(And style, people, STYLE). Even with a fully equipped Heliophagus on hand, one does not invade Russia in winter.
Other than that, it's all the same to me, so long as you continue avoid generic fantasy and other strains of the dreaded cliche like the plague. Honestly, no orcs.

[Vicious Love]

PS: Let it further be noted that I dig the notion of a kingdom of mystic accountants and warrior-jews. Particularly alongside Marignon. One side all snooty and convinced that they are the only beings in the cosmos that actually have souls, or that they have two or three more souls than everyone else, and the other side... Marignon. Clash of the egos. Well suggested.

Another afterthought, I'm not sure how long Atlantis have been abducting members of other races to serve as mages but, unless they only steal infants*, I imagine this makes them prime candidates for that whole "changing with the times" thing I suggested. Particularly since mages were worth more than their weight in... well... other mages, during the Ascension Wars.

*Which seems kinda silly, as one would have no way of telling whether said babies have any aptitude for magic, in half the game's cultures. And one would not want to steal a Machakan baby from the Lord's bloodline. Eep.

[Cainehill]

Vicious Love said:
I'd also like to see existing nations changed by the Ascension Wars. For instance(And this is a very particular instance which by no means begins to encapsulate the whole), you'd assume a few predator lizards woulda found their way into the other nations' societies



They already have. Check out "Angerboda's Great Hag Book of Barbecue" - 3 recipes require the lizards, while it's optional for a dozen others. And her book of stews has some great uses for Marshmasters and Sauromancers as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Pretty sure T'ien C'hi has some stir fried Versions as well.

[Huntsman]

How about insect people living in a highly structured colony-like society. I would imagine it as primarily infantry-based (some winged) with good priests and strong on sacred troops.

* Swarming tactics would make sense.
* Nature magic seems to fit.
* Lots of Poison sting attacks and poison resistance but with fire susceptibility to offset.
* High morale and even some Berserk for insect-like single-minded purpose.
* Edit: Paralysis/web attacks for more expensive units

- Basic quadrapedal infantry - the real insects
- Basic bipedal infantry - more like insect-men, using natural weapons and armor
- Winged infantry - insect-men warriors in chitin armors and using various hand-held weapons in addition to natural weapons
- Ranged - Some type of short-ranged, poison dart shooting bugs
- Priests - insect-men with priest magic and maybe Nature.
- Mages - Nature, Earth, Air magics

This is all just off the top of my head. I'm sure it needs work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Taqwus]

Insects being incredibly numerous and diverse, you'd have a number of options to draw from.

For instance, a huge number of species fly, and some are amphibious or aquatic for at least part of their life cycle (hm: it would be interesting if units could 'evolve' based on, say, experience? Currently, the Eater o' the Dead grows on corpses, but that's a rule that has limited applicability outside of, well, eaters of the dead.).

Poison, ambush (mimicry, coloration, ability to remain nearly motionless for periods of time, use of tunnels, use of webs as tripwires (well, OK, mostly thinking of trapdoor spiders here, not bona fide insects)), high basic prot (chitin), high morale (perhaps mindlessness, requiring the Queen?) for the soldier castes of colony insects, siege bonuses for others (tunneling)...

I'm a bit hard-pressed at the moment to recall any insects that use ranged warfare, and can't really speculate as to their religion or magical capabilities. That said, somebody who's not stayed up watching Sox games might be in a position to have a reasonably coherent vision of a fantasy Version of the insect kingdom.

[Cohen]

So no Tapyric mithology in Dom3 ... damn this is a real shame.

I'd really liked to see a furry white tigrated tapyr trampling enemies and jumping from square to square splatting enemies under his weight (in Tapyric mithology the Tapyrs are the guardians of dead warriors/heroes' paradise, and are oversized, shapechanger to human form to "communicate" or aid directly with their protected mortal, have thick furry, and were famous for their charges and by jumping on enemies in battle. They allowed their protect to ride them too, if he earned this privilege. There were many Tapyr type, depending on their fur colour and eventual stripes - like a tiger has orange or white with black stripes. White and gray tapyrs were the most powerful. Brown were the lesser powerful, dark brown or gray the mid stage, and there was the unique black tapyr even if it seemed more a legend that never intervened or never had guided or protected a mortal being. They all serve the Great Tapyr God.)

[tka]

As someone else has also suggested: I would love to see somekind of Arabian Nights nation. And of course Ashikaga Shogunate -style nation too.

Orcs and other typical fantasy races are a bit boring IMHO.
Mythological/semi-historical races are much more interesting.

[Tumba]

I have only one suggestion. One that would fit Dom perfectly: Kalevala.

Instead of all the fantasy stuff mostly suggested here, I'd like to see races based on real folklore. Warhammer, as nice as it is as a boardgame doesn't really belong to Dom. Dom is all about spiced up folklore. Not that I wouldn't mind having some Dino-riding C'tis. Would be fun, but where goes the line between WH,Dom and other fantasy titles?

IMHO, Dom should stay in the course it has so far been on.
I'd really like to see all the WH suff in Dom, but as a mod. I wouldn't cry if there was a MiddleEarth mod either.

I like the battle engine of Dom very much. It could be used for "historical" simulation too. Some historical races, Assyrians, Babylonians, Late Kingdom Egyptians. No magic (maybe some weak rituals), just priests. Of course this would require all magic to be turned off in the server or they would be beaten to pulp. Anyway a real world setting would be a nice option...

Also a new magic path to go with the Kalevala-race.
Chanting. It couldn't be piled and stored as magic gems or bloodslaves. It would be dependent of the amount of singing and chanting created by characters present at the battle or in a province. Works a bit like the master-slave spells in Dom2. The one doing a Chant ritual would draw on the power of the chanting in the same province or battle.

I think Chanting should be included in Dom even if the Kalevala race would not. Chanting and singing is throghout time the most common way of doing magic for most cultures.
It's STILL done in all the so called modern cultures. Just go to the closest church/temple you find and listen a bit.

[Tumba]

Another thought...
What on earth has happened to the mysterious power source of Atlantis? Did it get short-circuited when Atlantis sank?

It would be fun to have a new gem-source just for Atlantis.

IMHO Atlantis and R'lyeh are a bit underpowered in the game. Yes, its a huge advantage to be under water, but they do not stand a chance in late game battles. If somebody has won a mp game with either atlantis or r'lyeh. I salute you.

It is easy to hang on in the game as nobody is interested in attacking you. Until some race like ermor who really is not that bad in water comes and walks all over you.

Rlyeh is doing better, but in my games Atlantis has been always on the receiving end of the sword. Or maybe I just suck at playing it.

[Leif_-]

I wouldn't mind seeing a nation based on the mythology of the Australian aboriginals, and one based on recent (18th and 19th century) Scandinavian folklore: Troll, huldre, draugar, nisser (tomtegubbar) and so on. Maybe something based on the old pagan religion(s?) from the Baltic.

For something completely different, how about a steam-fantasy nation?

(I suspect Illwinter already know which nations they're going to add; but it's still fun to try and think of new additions.)

[Kaljamaha]

Yes! I demand some neighborly attention in the form of a nation based on Finnish mythology! /threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Finland.gif If for no other reason than to name my pretender Ukko and have Väinämöinen show up as a national hero. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


K.

[Pocus]

a pre-renaissance gnomish nation, with muskets, black power bombs, zeppelins, steam catapults, etc.
?

[Hakko]

Pocus said:
a pre-renaissance gnomish nation, with muskets, <u>black power bombs</u>...


Wouldn't that make more sense as a "Black Panther" theme for Machaka. Fight da Power! Down wit' OPP!

[Edi]

*kills Pocus*

Urgh, no tinker gnomes from Krynn, thank you...

I'd be pretty leery of putting anything of the gunpowder era or later into Dom2, somehow ut just destroys the feel of ancient mystery and power in it. The Mechanical Men, Iron Dragons etc are advanced, but also animated by magic, and they are mechanical inventions, not chemical discoveries like gunpowder.

Edi

[Hakko]

Vicious Love said:
PS: Let it further be noted that I dig the notion of a kingdom of mystic accountants and warrior-jews. Particularly alongside Marignon. One side all snooty and convinced that they are the only beings in the cosmos that actually have souls, or that they have two or three more souls than everyone else, and the other side... Marignon. Clash of the egos. Well suggested.




Yes, they could have special spells like "Law Suit" that costs the victim hundreds of pounds of gold and keeps his pretender from doing anything for months.

As a special pretender they could have the "Material Girl" who comes with glamour and astral and is armed with a magical Red Thread. She is immortal, or at least appears to age very slowly.

[Leif_-]

Actually, I was thinking of something more akin to China Mieville's New Crobuzon.

[Pocus]

ah sorry, typo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Pocus]

a wererat nation?

[Agrajag]

Here's a couple of ideas for races:
1. A byblical jewish race, as in, a race which will be similar to the Israelites as described in the bible:
Their units will be pretty weak, after all bronze was the commonly used metal back then and wasn't really that good, only a handful of byblical nations had iron at that time, and even that doesnt compare to steel, and no armor was used back then...
They would probably have the said bronze and iron (iron wielding units being very expensive) but would compensate for that by having powerful magicians.
Their magicians should along the prophet-like model, religious leader capable of powerful elemental spells (and possibly astral as well).
2. Race #1's counterparts, byblical pagans.
They would have slightly better units (cheaper iron units etc.) but instead of powerful elemental religious leader they would have sorcery-practicing mages, focusing on blood and death mainly.

You could also add this radical idea for a race, but I doubt it:
A race of hyper-intelligent LAND creatures, they would be powerful in astral magic and would have some strange special abilities, like an ability that has a chance to take over an enemy unit when striking it, and commanders could hypnotize the population for quick militia and possibly a magical mutation ability, changing humans units into freakish monsters.
Also, their mind control should render the target mindless.

(Yep, Im back, if anyone remembers me, though I don't think DomII can connect to the internet, but atleast the internet is working...)

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Pocus said:
a wererat nation?



A weresquirrel nation, you mean? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Leif_-]

Nagot Gick Fel said:
A weresquirrel nation, you mean? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



That's just wery nutty.

*runs away from the pun-punishing mob*

[Lepakko]

Kaljamaha said:
Yes! I demand some neighborly attention in the form of a nation based on Finnish mythology! /threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Finland.gif If for no other reason than to name my pretender Ukko and have Väinämöinen show up as a national hero. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


K.



Oohhh Lovely neighbors Plz can you make it hapend? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

You know how we finnish love swedish.

[Pocus]

Nagot Gick Fel said:

Pocus said:
a wererat nation?



A weresquirrel nation, you mean? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



ah, my scheme has been discovered http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Kristoffer O]

Gamle vise Väinämöinen
Vida känd i nordens länder
Kalevalas kloke trollkarl
Kan han visa sig i spelet
Väinämöinen sjunger kraftsång
Jag får höra den i drömmen
Kanske kommer Väinämöinen
Leda Kalevalas hjältar
I dominions datorspelet
Om jag mäktar läsa sagan

Bleh. The original is better.

I like Kalevala, but I have only read a fifth or so of it. My current knowledge of it feels somewhat insufficient. I would like to have Kalevala in the game. It is currenly on my wishlist, but not on my to-do list.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Kristoffer O said:
Bleh. The original is better.



I hope so. The two French translations I know of are both as bland as my aunt's chicken &amp; tapioca soup. I still managed to read the whole thing.


I would like to have Kalevala in the game.



My favorite bit was Kullervo's story. If you ever add a Kalevala-ish nation or theme, be sure to have him as a hero, who's either cursed, or curses people around him (a la Pocket Lich), or causes misfortune in the province he's in.

[johan osterman]

Nagot Gick Fel said:
translations I know of are both as bland as my aunt's chicken &amp; tapioca soup. I still managed to read the whole thing.




Obviously you didn't used that melodic Finnish accent you have to use when reading Kalevala in swedish*. I was expecting more from you. Unless you shape up there will be no more beta testing for you.

*Including pastiches, even if crappy.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

johan osterman said:
Obviously you didn't used that melodic Finnish accent you have to use when reading Kalevala



Hmmm, not sure where that comes from, but I have a faint rememberance the poem was supposed to be recited aloud by two different persons, and I think they had to be sitting or standing on a bench as well. I never owned a bench, never found another person willing to recite it with me, and I assumed it was all the license I needed to read it in petto. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


I was expecting more from you. Unless you shape up there will be no more beta testing for you.



Ow. That seems hopeless. I'm not even sure Sibelius composed anything but symphonic or chamber music, so maybe my best chance to develop a Finnish accent would be to trade my current cell phone for a Nokia.

[Endoperez]

After seeing Gandalf's list of themes/ideas that already exist in Dominions I started to think. I found two theme/ideas that I don't think already exist: culture that values spartan way of life, resistance to pain, strength of body and mind strong enough to control it perfectly. Another one has been in side-role many times, but never really the main thing of a race: monasteries. I think they would go well together:

*only light to medium infantry, but very skilled and not expensive
*sacred heavy infantry, if it is made different enough from Heart Brothers
*monk/eunuch mages and leaders, also quite skilled

I don't know what magics I would give them, but some levels of Earth could represent the hardiness of theirs. No Death, as the dead should be given rest, but maybe a path with strong summons. Astral could be, but more for the spiritual/divine guidance than for any 'real' reason. Maybe nature, as monks often worked as healers and herbalists in the middle ages.

I would like the leaders being viable choice for casting some personal buffs and going to front line, but they would have to have many hitpoints, extreme skills or be way too cheap. I don't know of a real theme for it, so it it more of an idea than a nation ready enough for a mod, but anyway...

[Tyrant]

I'd like to see nations modeled on the Persians, Mongols, and Indians.

Persia was one of the great empires of antiquity and battled it out with the Greeks and Romans for centuries. They had a rich mythic and magical tradition and should be easy to make a nation out of. Fire, air, and hoards of bowman for starters.

Mongolia would be tougher to do in DomII since light cav is such a crappy troop type, but perhaps DomIII will address that.

India is a huge chunk of the world and home of all kinds of exotic mysticism. I don't know much about ancient India, and it might be hard to isolate a mythic thematic thread, but something could be done.

A Celtic nation might be good too. Man has a wiff of it already, but i'd like to see more of a pure dark age celtic thing instead of Romano-Celts.

Carthage or the Phoniceans (the "sea peoples") might work.

I like the suggestions above for the Shogunate and a real Eygptian nation.

[Edi]

johan osterman said:

Nagot Gick Fel said:
translations I know of are both as bland as my aunt's chicken &amp; tapioca soup. I still managed to read the whole thing.




Obviously you didn't used that melodic Finnish accent you have to use when reading Kalevala in swedish*. I was expecting more from you. Unless you shape up there will be no more beta testing for you.

*Including pastiches, even if crappy.


Umm, Johan, did you notice he said FRENCH translations? Granted, a Finnish accent when speaking Swedish might be melodic, but it'll not do much for French... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Edi

[Humer]

Tyrant said:
India is a huge chunk of the world and home of all kinds of exotic mysticism. I don't know much about ancient India, and it might be hard to isolate a mythic thematic thread, but something could be done.



Yeah, they should feature the Karmic(sp?) wheel: all troops and/or commanders are immortal, but only so that when they die (in own domain) they reincarnate as different troop/commander based on... what? Luck? Productivity? Other scale? Experience? This is where my imagination fails me.

Of course, this requires a whole new system to implement - but then again, I'm no dev. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And cows as sacred troops! Yeah.

- Humer

[Mind Elemental]

Actually, Mongol Empire = Barbarian Kings T'ien Chi, if I'm not mistaken, and Persia is also included in Arcoscephale. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[PashaDawg]

How about based on Indian (Hindu) myths?

Or based on Native American or Eskimo myths?

A Zoroastrian/Persian type thing could be fun, too.

Or some sort of race that normally inhabits another plane of existence/dimension but has managed to manifest themselves on “this” plane/dimension. I'm thinking of something supernatural, but not undead.

Arabian knights type stuff would also be very cool.

Just some vague stabs in the dark...

[Kel]

PashaDawg said:
Or some sort of race that normally inhabits another plane of existence/dimension but has managed to manifest themselves on “this” plane/dimension. I'm thinking of something supernatural, but not undead.




You mean...like R'lyeh ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

- Kel

[deccan]

Kel said:

PashaDawg said:
Or some sort of race that normally inhabits another plane of existence/dimension but has managed to manifest themselves on “this” plane/dimension. I'm thinking of something supernatural, but not undead.




You mean...like R'lyeh ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
- Kel



Perhaps he means something more like Ether Lords / Warriors instead of weird indescribable monsters, drawing on D&amp;D planescape.

[Vicious Love]

More like the ether warriors. And they were here first, apparently.

Second the Persian* and Indian thingies, incidentally. Though I'd still rather see a proper, original fantasy race. Yet further emphasis on the original, of bold print didn't suffice, bearing in mind that pretty much any historical civilization or mythos is preferable to pretty much any generic fantasy race, even the ones that are just second- or third- hand bastardizations of said mythoi(Myth &amp; Folklore-&gt;Tolkien-&gt;Weis &amp; Hickman 3rd Edition, with expanded Skills &amp; Powers ruleset!).

* Although Mind Elemental is right about Arcoscephale. However, on a Persia saturation scale of one to "enough", I'd rate Arcoscephale about 3.7, compensated for by a Greece saturation value well in excess of 5.0. That's one-a spicy parameter!

Update: Have been awake 39 hours, and counting. Will retract "spicy parameter" comment once am thinking straight. Seyla.

[Vicious Love]

D'oh. Really should refresh before posting, I've been reading another thread with this one open in another window for about an hour.

Update: This thread (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=37e2061c87d4af90490cc0e93d2e7c35&amp; threadid=1272550&amp;perpage=40&amp;pagenumber=1). Pretty sweet stuff, it is. If you don't mind the train wreck style images which invariably crop up whenever any sort of media are posted on a forum.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

PashaDawg said:
How about based on Indian (Hindu) myths?




[...] or Eskimo myths?




A Zoroastrian/Persian type thing could be fun, too.




Arabian knights type stuff would also be very cool.



I've made mods for all of these (Arabian Nights has Zoroastrian-inspired mages after its conquest of 'Persia'), although only the Arabian Nights is complete. Except for the sprites: I'm so terrible with drawing tools, I gave up making them. It took me 5-6 hours to make the sprites I've attached (Arabian 'Mystic' on flying carpet), and this is my only decent attempt so far.

Someone, please help me! I need cute sprites for Mamluks, drugged war elephants, polar werebear shamen and penguins!

[Cainehill]

deccan said:

Kel said:

PashaDawg said:
Or some sort of race that normally inhabits another plane of existence/dimension but has managed to manifest themselves on &amp;#8220;this&amp;#8221; plane/dimension. I'm thinking of something supernatural, but not undead.




You mean...like R'lyeh ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
- Kel



Perhaps he means something more like Ether Lords / Warriors instead of weird indescribable monsters, drawing on D&amp;D planescape.



Slaadi! Githyankees and Githzerais and Githwrapping! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

deccan said:

Kel said:

PashaDawg said:
Or some sort of race that normally inhabits another plane of existence/dimension but has managed to manifest themselves on “this” plane/dimension. I'm thinking of something supernatural, but not undead.




You mean...like R'lyeh ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
- Kel



Perhaps he means something more like Ether Lords / Warriors instead of weird indescribable monsters, drawing on D&amp;D planescape.



R'leyh seems like aliens or Call of Cuthulhu (sp?) /Lovecraft. "Ether Lords" is on point, because I was getting some "inspiration" from the "pale" race in the game "Etherlords." They are an odd sort of mix of an Indian/Persian/Native American race of beings that are commonly only a shadow on this plane of existence, unless they use magic to materialize themselves on this plane, and they can be sent back to their own plane (but not die) unless magic is used to trap them here and then kill them... well, I am making this up... In fact, there could be two races: a guardian type race and an evil malevolent race... maybe that's too much...

[Peter Ebbesen]

Hmm. I like a "Return of the Ether Lords" theme as an idea. Start with human followers (astral/death mages, recruitable everywhere, best mage SSD? capital only), default priests, weak light/medium infantry with independent strength archers (shortbows).

To use a mechanism already in place, give them a summoning site (akin to R'lyehs) in their capital which allows an astral mage to summon in reinforcements. The stronger the mage in astral, the stronger the Ether reinforcement.

A mage of astral skill S and death skill D will receive one pack at random from the categories allowed by his skills from the following list per turn.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
ReqS ReqD
1 0 1d6+S Troopers
2 1 1d6+S Warriors
3 1 1 Champion[leader SSD?]
4 1 1d6+S Troopers + 1 Champion
5 1 1d6+S Warriors + 1 Champion
6 2 1 Lord[leader SSSDD?] - make lords produce 1 astral gem and 1 death gem/turn
7 2 1d6+S Troopers + 1 Lord
8 2 1d6+S Warriors + 1 Lord
9 3 1 Prince[leader SSSSDD??] - make princes produce 3 astral gems and 2 death gems/turn
</pre><hr />
Chance of insanity depending on astral strength. (Ether beings being nearly immune)

Then give them two special spells, "Summon Ether Troopers" (SSD, 10 Astral Gems for 5 Ether Troopers) and "Summon Ether Warrior" (SSSD, 3 Astral, 1 Ether Warrior"). Alternatively, give the leaders "Summon Allies" ability. (Champion-&gt;1xTrooper, Lord-&gt;1xWarrior, Prince-&gt;2xWarrior), though that would perhaps be too powerful given the substantial odds of getting an extra leader per turn for somebody who made an Astral 9 pretender.

Together with Ether Gate, that should allow the player to summon ever larger Ether Armies.... Either slowly through the gate back in the capital (a steady trickle of good to excellent forces) or through summoning at the cost of a lot of astral gems.

One completely sick idea would be to give them a base income of 10 astral gems/turn and the handicap of automatically changing all gems to astral gems (1 astral for each 2) corresponding to automatic use of alchemisation after site-income has been added to the pool each resolution phase. They do drain the world of other magic than themselves, right? If you want to use other types of gems, you'll just have to alchemise back and use them during the same turn (or store them on scouts...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[SafeKeeper]

One of the reasons why Dominions II rules, I believe, is the CREATIVITY put into it by the makers. Sure, they didn't come up with Jotunheimen or Atlantis or Dragons. BUT they implemented new cultures that were not old cliches such as the "classic" "Man-Dwarf-Elf-Orc" universe.

Dominions II is a great game because the developers dared implement "new" cultures instead of cowardly resorting to cliches like Tolkien because such things guarantee sales.

"Abysians? Spider-mounted.. Africans? R'Lyeh? Acrose-who? Never heard of 'em, fans won't like 'em, hand me the Elves."

Implementing new cultures also allows for much more creative game play. Instead of being stuck with "Orcish", Elven, Dwarven, and Tolkien-Human behaviour, diplomacy, culture, and history, for example, you can bring in a whole new cultures and actually be creative, thus creating a new gaming experience.

Illwinter Productions actually took their time to work on new elements for their game. Granted there's a lot of old stuff, like the fire ball and the dragon. But the huge amount of new things overrides that.

I'm a fan of D&amp;D, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, and all those games as much as you are. But Dominions II isn't the place for those universes. So for the fans of the good ol' cliche universe: I urge you to reconsider. Just that the Skaven were in a best-selling games doesn't qualify them for Dominions II. In my eye, it goes a long way towards disqualifying them, however.

[PashaDawg]

Peter Ebbesen said:
"Return of the Ether Lords" theme. Start with human followers ...



VERY CREATIVE, PETER!!!! I like it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

How about also some sort of creature (or series of creatures) that is highly stealthy while only a shadow on this plane of existence. They "drain magic" in any province they are located and as time passes, and once enough magic is "consumed", they materialize automatically (thus, creating a timing issue). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[major^3]

I's like to see a nation that can live on land and water, since we have water nations and land nations..

maybe frog people, or eel-people, or some sort of fish/human hybrid perhaps?

or a nation of overgrown plants that devour things...giant venus flytraps and such.

[johan osterman]

major^3 said:
...
or a nation of overgrown plants that devour things...giant venus flytraps and such.



Their elites could be potted plants. With thick ceramic pots that would not only give them considerable protection but also partial fire resistance.

[johan osterman]

Also don't you think Atlantis cover fish/human hybrid pretty much, as well as frogs. They do have fins, after all. And the bigger ones are quite bachtracian.

[Vicious Love]

I can't believe you used that adjective.

[major^3]

i meant more like a race that can build on land and water without magical aid or artifacts...

[Kel]

PashaDawg said:

deccan said:

Kel said:

PashaDawg said:
Or some sort of race that normally inhabits another plane of existence/dimension but has managed to manifest themselves on “this” plane/dimension. I'm thinking of something supernatural, but not undead.




You mean...like R'lyeh ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
- Kel



Perhaps he means something more like Ether Lords / Warriors instead of weird indescribable monsters, drawing on D&amp;D planescape.



R'leyh seems like aliens or Call of Cuthulhu (sp?) /Lovecraft.



It is. And it perfectly fits your description. It's a race that comes from another plane/dimension (hello, void gate), supernatural and not undead.

- Kel

[PashaDawg]

Kel said:

PashaDawg said:

R'leyh seems like aliens or Call of Cuthulhu (sp?) /Lovecraft.



It is. And it perfectly fits your description. It's a race that comes from another plane/dimension (hello, void gate), supernatural and not undead.

- Kel



OK OK OK - - - - Don't push me, Man! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Sheesh...
Maybe I want ether lords that are not so green and squishy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Actually... I am such a total loser... I have not even played every race (including R'leyh). Maybe I should stop dreaming for more and play with the toys I already have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif I'm such a cry-baby. I always want a new toy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif In the words of that greedy little girl in Willy Wonka: I want a golden-egg-laying-goose, Daddy, and I want it NOW!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Tumba]

Shouldn't we, the descendants of Ukko, dwellers of the house of Tapio, believers of the Bear, sing a verse or two to make a Readers Digest Version of Kalevala to our "illiterate" neighbors?

The point is that Kalevala should not be red in anything else than Finnish. It is impossible. It will not make any sense. It taps from the very roots of the Finnish language which is impossible to translate into anything else in a sensible way.

A bit like surströmming, that should never be exported outside Sweden. The others would just not get it...

Maybe we could find a source with the essential events that takes place in Kalevala in readable form, or maybe compile a list of monsters and heroes both in Kalevala and the Finnish folklore in general.

Any kalevalistics out there? If we want Kalevala, we better work for it! Perkele! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Tumba]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gifWell, I decided to do my part in the Kalevala issue.
Here are some quite nice links:

A "Reader's Digest" Version of Kalevala:
http://www.edj.net/mc2012/fiftyrunos.htm

Some Personal notes on the "RD" Version:
Tuonela = The place beyond. The place where the dead go.
Tuoni = The ruler of Tuonela.
Hiisi = IMHO should not be associated with the Devil as the RD-translation suggests, but more like a poverful evil spirit or maybe a Demon.
Kantele= a five-stringed harp. Väinämöinens main "weapon".
Sampo = an artifact. A magic mill that made salt and gold.
Ilmatar= The mother of Väinämöinen. Can also be thought as a air (wind) spirit (or goddess).Her name directly translated would be something like Airess.

Some Kalevala info:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/12/1219_tolkienroots.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/
http://www.helsinki.fi/kasv/nokol/kalevala.html
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/kalevala.htm
http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/folklore/library/kalevala.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/3818/KALEVALA.HTM
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/k/ka/kalevala.html
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/f/fi/finnish_mythology.html
http://www.enotes.com/kalevala/13215

Finnish mythology:
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/finnish-mythology.php
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/IsisShrine/Finnish.html
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/texts/kalavala/bl_glossary.htm
http://www.finnishmyth.org/indexbasenor.html

Remember, if we don't get a Kaleval theme in Dom3, we will beat you at least five years in a row in the Ice Hockey WorldCup. (There will be longbearded harp-guys chanting behing the Swedish goal) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[Endoperez]

Not as good as the Finnish Version, of course, but still adequate. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/, From the story of Joukahainen (written as Youkahainen in there, can you believe?):

Angry then grew Wainamoinen,
Wrathful waxed, and fiercely frowning,
Self-composed he broke his silence,
And began his wondrous singing.
Sang he not the tales of childhood,
Children's nonsense, wit of women,
Sang he rather bearded heroes,
That the children never heard of,
That the boys and maidens knew not
Known but half by bride and bridegroom,
Known in part by many heroes,
In these mournful days of evil,
Evil times our race befallen.
Grandly sang wise Wainamoinen,
Till the copper-bearing mountains,
And the flinty rocks and ledges
Heard his magic tones and trembled;
Mountain cliffs were torn to pieces,
All the ocean heaved and tumbled;
And the distant hills re-echoed.

[Kristoffer O]

Tumba said:
A bit like surströmming, that should never be exported outside Sweden. The others would just not get it...



Sweds doesn't get it either. Trust me. My brother nealy puked when we tried it. Rotten tinned fish that smells like fart. Whoa!

Fortunately Kalevala is quite melodic in swedish and even if loosing something in translation it can be translated. Surströmming doesn't need to be translated. It stinks in any language.


Maybe we could find a source with the essential events that takes place in Kalevala in readable form, or maybe compile a list of monsters and heroes both in Kalevala and the Finnish folklore in general.

Any kalevalistics out there? If we want Kalevala, we better work for it! Perkele! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif



My Version of it has a sum up, but as most sum ups it leaves all the interesting details that are useful. I'll take a look at your links.

[PrinzMegaherz]

What about a nation that can use it's commanders to morph its troops? You can only recruit one weak standard unit, but every commander has a distinctive morph command to transform them into something special during battle.

So the enemy will never know what to expect

[Gandalf Parker]

PrinzMegaherz said:
What about a nation that can use it's commanders to morph its troops? You can only recruit one weak standard unit, but every commander has a distinctive morph command to transform them into something special during battle.

So the enemy will never know what to expect


Hmmm lycanthopic? changeling?

[Gandalf Parker]

How about a modular race? Not robotic but inorganic/magical (elemental?). Im thinking of many small weak cheap units suitable for swarming. And larger units which can be formed by x number of units. So if you have a combat group (probably the easiest way to do it) of 5, then in combat they become 1 bigger Version. And a 10, a 20, a 50. Each successive size might also gain some ability or use.