MP Game - European War 2

[Graeme Dice]

I'm once again in need of another game to replace some that are starting to wind down, so I'm going to host one more. The conditions are going to be fairly standard, except that a win will be by victory points, and we will be using both Zen's pretender mod and his magic spell mod.

The game conditions will be:
Map: Zen's Europe map.
Magic Sites: 50%
Independents: 6
Renaming on
Standard Research
No house rules
48 hr quickhost
The winning condition will be to control a number of victory points equal to the number of players. Each capital will count as a victory point. There will be a number of other victory points spread around the map. The amount of these victory points that are spread around the map will be one less than the total number of players.

Players:
Atlantis - Graeme
Jotunheim - Zooko
Pangaia - Cainehill
Pythium - Thufir
Abysia - Cohen
Mictlan - Archaeolept
Ermor - Jurri
Ulm - Crash
Machaka - Turms
R'lyeh - Raspi

That's 10 players, so I'll put the server up now.

IP:68.148.43.237
Port:8500

Make sure you design your pretenders with Version 1.81 of the Pretender mod and Version 1.51 of the spell mod that are available at:
Zen's Mods (http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/)

[Zooko]

I would like to play as Jotun.

[Cainehill]

Pretender and Spell mod? Cool.

Mmm... In as Pangaea.

[Thufir]

I'd like in as Pythium (for real this time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[Cohen]

I'd try Abysya.

[Thufir]

Cohen said:
I'd try Abysya.

But, as everyone knows, Abysia is quite weak. Are you sure you're up to the challenge? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cohen]

LoL

I hope in the Zen balancments for Spell Mod and Pretender Mod.
How many VP to win?

[archaeolept]

the micts

[Jurri]

I'd play Ermor.

And hey, wasn't Abysia further weakened via the changes in the seasonals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Crash]

If you have room for a newer player, I'd like in as either Ulm or R'lyeh.

I may need instructions on how to get started though.

Thanks,
Crash

[Turms]

Hello,

If there is still room I would like to play the mighty Machakan empire.

[archaeolept]

due to how extensive the water provinces are in this map, there really should be a second water nation.

paging Msew...

[Raspi]

Hello.

If there is still room, I'd like in as R'lyeh.

[archaeolept]

excellent. I don't know how many players graeme is looking for, but so far we have:

Atlantis - Graeme
Jotunheim - Zooko
Pangaia - Cainehill
Pythium - Thufir
Abysia - Cohen
Mictlan - Archaeolept
Ermor - Jurri
Ulm - Crash
Machaka - Turms
R'lyeh - Raspi

[Graeme Dice]

The server is now up at the address listed in the first post.

[Cainehill]

Is there a designated kick-off time for the game? I'm playing around with various pretender setups and chassises, suspect others may be as well, but will upload before the kickoff.

[Cohen]

I can't manage to upload the pretender.

I'm using 1.81 for Pretenders, and 1.51 for Spells, as Zen Mods.

[Crash]

I'm in.

You guys can start teaching your citizens Ulmish, it might make the integration easier.

Thanks,
Crash

[Graeme Dice]

Cohen said:
I can't manage to upload the pretender.



It looks like you've already uploaded.

[Cohen]

My screen stopped to "waiting for game info" ...
Better to reupload...

[Cainehill]

Once again - is there a day / time the game is to be underway, so I know when to upload my pretender by?

[Raspi]

Where can I get the map? I downloaded the Zen's Europe map from www.dominions-2.org (http://www.dominions-2.org), but I't wont work on my computer..

Ohhh forget it, its working now. But when will we start?

[Graeme Dice]

I'll start the game late Wednesday evening, as long as nobody has any objections.

[Thufir]

Graeme Dice said:
I'll start the game late Wednesday evening, as long as nobody has any objections.

Works for me.

[Graeme Dice]

We're just waiting for Archaeolept's Mictlan, and then I can start.

[Cainehill]

Whew! Glad I went in to test drive my pretender - I didn't have the mods turned on. Proper pretender is uploaded now, and I sent a message to Arch about an hour ago reminding him to upload his.

[Cainehill]

Incidentally - it may be that the server is being temperamental; it took 4 tries to upload the new and improved pretender.

[archaeolept]

sorry.

pretender uploaded.

[Graeme Dice]

The server is now up and running.

[Turms]

Hello,

Turn 3 is waiting everyone, I was the Last to do turn 2.
What do people think: Should we post new turn announcements?


Good luck to everyone,
and may the Midday Sun burn all infidels

Turms - playing Machaka

[Jurri]

I would appreciate an announcement, having to switch OSs for playing the turn.

[Cainehill]

There's certainly no downside to new turn announcements.

[Thufir]

Turms said:
Should we post new turn announcements?


I like doing that. No need to make it a requirement, but I find it convenient when it's done.

[Graeme Dice]

New turn.

[Cainehill]

New turn.

[Turms]

New turn!

[archaeolept]

server down? can't connect.

[Graeme Dice]

I restarted the server, so you can try it again.

[Zooko]

I can't connect to 68.148.23.237:8500.

[Thufir]

Zooko said:
I can't connect to 68.148.23.237:8500.

With any DomII server people have reported an inability to connect from time to time. Normally, repeated attempts eventually work. I just got through about 10 minutes ago.

[Zooko]

Repeated attempts have not yet worked, here. I'll try again later.

[Zooko]

Oh, I had the wrong IP address.

[Thufir]

New turn is up.

[Graeme Dice]

Also remember to never use the period '.' key on the numberpad when entering IP addresses.

[Thufir]

Now I'm getting a "connection failed" message - Dom II client is timing out when trying to hit the server.

[Graeme Dice]

I've rebooted the server yet again. These kind of problems should only Last for a couple more weeks, as I'll be able to set up a dedicated hosting server just as soon as I get my new computer.

[Thufir]

Working now - looks like Graeme restarted the server, as the we are now reset to 48 hr hosting period.

Hope that doesn't mean Cainehill is going to wait another 48 hrs before taking his turn!

[Cainehill]

Send me some nature gems and I'll take my turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

New Turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Thufir]

Cainehill said:

New Turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And it didn't even cost me any nature gems - awesome!

[Cainehill]

Thufir said:

Cainehill said:

New Turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And it didn't even cost me any nature gems - awesome!



Hey, you can still send a nature gem - I even took my next turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Thufir]

New turn is up

[Zooko]

Argh. Why did my small army of large giants route as soon as Anya the Virtue slew one of their bodyguards?

I thought bodyguards were immune to the stupid routing rules.

EDIT:

On closer inspection I see that it wasn't a bodyguard that Anya flambed with the first swing of her flambeau. Actually it was one of the large giants.

I guess what a small army of large giants needs is a crossbowman standing at the very back of the battlefield in order to give them courage. Coming right up! Look out Anya, here comes the Small Army of Large Giants And A Crossbowman.

[Graeme Dice]

Zooko said:
Argh. Why did my small army of large giants route as soon as Anya the Virtue slew one of their bodyguards?



An army of only bodyguards and commanders will rout as soon as any one of them is killed.

[archaeolept]

server is down and/or out

[Cainehill]

New turn - server seems fine but maybe it was restarted already.

[archaeolept]

yah no problems now

[Zooko]

Dear Anya:

I didn't need my Pretender anyway (err, I mean, I didn't need the physical form of myself).

I see that my Increasingly Small Army of Large Giants is still having a morale problem.

I'm still planning on hiring that crossbowman, and then oh boy are you going to be in trouble.

Regards,

Gan the Great and Merciless and Temporarily Incorporeal

[Cohen]

Mwhahahahahah

This is what you deserve, to have ordered your giants to stompa stompa my lava-farms, destroyng the precious cultures of magma mushrooms and of everburning grain.
Indeed your recruiter have done a good work finding all that volounteers, perhaps next time he'll find an High Priest leading a group of zealots equipped with crossbows.

[archaeolept]

connection failed a few times, as if the server were down; then I got through.

[Cainehill]

New turn ran.

[Turms]

New turn is waiting!

[archaeolept]

new turn

[Zooko]

Dear Anya:

My recruiter really outdid himself this time! Instead of crossbowmen, he came up with flagellants! Tenacious little buggers, aren't they?

Welcome to Limbo. Enjoy your stay!

Regards,

Gan the Great and Merciless and Temporarily Incorporeal

[Cohen]

Ah damned cold one,

It was your snowy guys that frozen my Virtue. Not your flagellats.
Poor my Virtue, frozen and icied, I hope she won't come back with Cold affliction.

[Zooko]

It wasn't just that she grew tired of slaying two flagellants per turn after a while?

> Poor my Virtue, frozen and icied, I hope she won't come back with Cold affliction.

And I hope she won't come back!

Regards,

Gan the Great and Merciless and Temporarily Incorporeal

[archaeolept]

hey is it a new turn yet? i'm at a different machine so can't check http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif, but we were just waiting on r'lyeh a little while ago...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zooko]

Nope. Still waiting on R'lyeh. Creepy suckerface little things, they are, too. Some of them aren't so little. But they're still littler than my worshippers are.

Regards,

Gan the Great and Merciless and Temporarily Incorporeal

[Thufir]

new turn

[Thufir]

new turn up

[Turms]

New turn again

[Thufir]

new turn.

[Cainehill]

New turn again.

[archaeolept]

yay new turn

[Zooko]

Aigh! She's back! Shoo! Shoo!

[Cainehill]

Send her my way, I'm always happy to kill his Virtues and even dragons. (Say, Cohen, could you feel the chill of my content when my ghost riders nailed your dragon in Ye Olde?)

[Jurri]

A new turn seems to be up... Did someone stale?

[Thufir]

Jurri said:
A new turn seems to be up... Did someone stale?

I don't think so - I might've been the one to submit, causing it to host. There were actually 3 of us connected at the time.

[Jurri]

Thufir said:
I don't think so - I might've been the one to submit, causing it to host. There were actually 3 of us connected at the time.



There's exitement in the air, to be sure!

Any plans yet versus the Mict? Sure looks like he's giving you a ride for your money!

[archaeolept]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

i would disagree about the claim that the attack was unprovoked, but whatever. w/out any agreement between us, there is no need for a casus belli

[Thufir]

archaeolept said:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

i would disagree about the claim that the attack was unprovoked, but whatever. w/out any agreement between us, there is no need for a casus belli

Care to substantiate your claim of provocation? Is this more of the "Pythium was stirring unrest" nonsense? I would greatly appreciate it if somebody would please explain to these Mictlanese blood suckers that Pythium doesn't have any spies that it can recruit...

[Thufir]

Jurri said:
Any plans yet versus the Mict? Sure looks like he's giving you a ride for your money!

Yeah, the plan is to clean his clock! Wanna help out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The attack did take us by surprise, so we have had to reposition our forces for our counterattack - but that will come soon enough.

[Jurri]

Thufir said:
Yeah, the plan is to clean his clock! Wanna help out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The attack did take us by surprise, so we have had to reposition our forces for our counterattack - but that will come soon enough.



Oh, not me! They would revoke my membership in the Brotherhood of Evil in an instant, if I were to help the innocent and the oppressed, so I better not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif


Although the thought of romping through your lands to "rescue" you sounds mighty alluring... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

(So sorry, vague threats against all decent folk are a part of the code of conduct too!)

[Cainehill]

Likewise, the forests of carrion would seem to have more in common with the forces of evil than with the holy forces of Pythium.

[Zooko]

Yeah, and my giants are, uh, evil too!

Also, I live over in a relatively peaceful corner and I don't even know where all the rest of you warring nations are.

[Cainehill]

Your giants _are_ evil! I've watched them sieging someone's capitol already, and _I_ wanted him! "Peaceful corner" my .... donkey! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Thufir]

Cainehill said:

Likewise, the forests of carrion would seem to have more in common with the forces of evil than with the holy forces of Pythium.

I'm not sure what this fight has to do with good and evil - it seems to me to be much more about national interests. Should Mictlan succeed, that would not be in the interests of any of Mictlan's neighbors.

[Jurri]

Well, Mict's priests _are_ quite the wusses in comparison to Pythium's... An important difference to some http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And hey, the Brotherhood has such wild parties, that no national interest can go before them!

[archaeolept]

Free mictish beer for everybody! Brewed according to our ancestral traditions in accordance w/ the mictish brew law - only the freshest of ingredients!

true, it is a red beer...

[Thufir]

Looks like quickhost has been turned off, and that we are now on 48h fixed host. Is this on purpose?

[archaeolept]

hmmm i pm'ed graeme, but no response. i'll send him an email i guess.

[Raspi]

I think he's about to die in the game, that might have something to do with it.

[Zooko]

It's a problem when the human host loses motivation in the game. When I host a game, I plan to have victory conditions that lead to a nice quick end when the end comes.

Maybe two teams of two nations each or maybe pentagram style...

This game should have fairly decisive win conditions because of the victory points. Only 9 victory points are required to win, so Mictlan should be close to winning, right?

[Jurri]

Actually Mictlan has 3 victory points. Check the graphs.

And let's not jump to conclusions 'bout reasons for this little pause, eh?

[Zooko]

There's a victory points graph?

I didn't mean to assume that Graeme was de-motivated and that's why he hasn't noticed the quickhost setting, or whatever. I was just pontificating on the problem in general. I've been thinking about it, since I'm probably going to host a game soon, and I'm probably going to lose. ;-)

[archaeolept]

i'm guessing he set it to non-QH because of remembrance day - he likely has a long weekend. I haven't gotten any response from him, but that seems like a good bet.

edit: close to winning? lol

[Zooko]

Twenty-three minutes until next hosting! WHOO!

[Zooko]

Oh geez that hurts. Anya just singlehandedly slew six giant commanders, five giant troops, and three tiny human fodder.

[Cohen]

But we'll lose both Zooko, whoever will win beetween us will be easy prey for the next player.

[Zooko]

Shhh... Don't tell them.

[Jurri]

Speaking of which; Zooko, Cohen, are those army-graphs like an open invitation or what?

[Thufir]

OK, it now says 139 hrs to host.

What's going on here? I'm sorry, but no how busy our host is, I think its reasonable to ask for Graeme (yes, you, if you're actually reading this) that he could take 2 mins to say "gee guys, I'm swamped - I'm putting the game on hold for the next 5 days". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Graeme Dice]

The game is now back up and running normally. I've been away from home for the past 4 days.

[archaeolept]

if pyth and machak get in their turns, we could get this show back on the road

:-)

[archaeolept]

server down

[Graeme Dice]

Is the server working properly now?

[Zooko]

Looks good to me. Pythium alone hasn't made his turn. 48 hours until next hosting.

[archaeolept]

48 hrs again? darn. its already been 48 since it Last hosted.

/me twiddles his thumbs

[archaeolept]

Woot! new turn.

[Thufir]

archaeolept said:
Woot! new turn.


wtf!!!

that was a forced stale!

i'm outta here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[archaeolept]

was it forced or had you tried to connect, thus uploading an incomplete turn?

anyways, w/ machaka seiging your capital, and me having just killed your SC pretender, I could see there not being much future for the pyth.

still, you could put up a fight - Pythium gets a one turn recall god from it's theurgs. All he needed was some kit.

[Thufir]

archaeolept said:
was it forced or had you tried to connect, thus uploading an incomplete turn?

It was a forced stale. I had not even attempted to connect since prior to the time where you had noted that I was the only one to not have submitted a turn.



anyways, w/ machaka seiging your capital, and me having just killed your SC pretender, I could see there not being much future for the pyth.


It would've been nice to have had a chance to put in some orders prior to this very critical turn hosting.



still, you could put up a fight - Pythium gets a one turn recall god from it's theurgs. All he needed was some kit.

F it. If this is what we call "hosting", I want no part of it. I'm AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[archaeolept]

whatever. what could you have done? armies seiging your forces, a pretender who couldn't handle them, and some little force of shamblers wandering around. as it is, you can have your pretender back next turn. you lost no real forces whatsoever, since your cyclops still has great paths. For a stale, that's pretty sweet. I've had worse.

[Graeme Dice]

Thufir said:
It would've been nice to have had a chance to put in some orders prior to this very critical turn hosting.



The Last turn ran on the morning of Nov. 11. After that, you had three and a half days to get your turn in. The turn should have actually run saturday morning at the very latest, so you really should have expected to stale by this point.

[archaeolept]

no. QH was off, so it didn't host until the morning of the 13th.

[Graeme Dice]

I need to shut the server down for a few hours. If this messes up anyone's turn playing schedule, please let me know, and I'll make sure to wait for your turn before hosting.

[Cainehill]

Think I'm the only one with a turn outstanding - I checked just before you posted / took it down, and was just trying to upload. Will try again first thing in the morning.

[Graeme Dice]

No problem. I'm just setting up my new computer, and had to move my old one to a new spot to make room.

[archaeolept]

back on line.

[Cainehill]

New Turn.

[Turms]

New turn.

[archaeolept]

ahhh, poor graeme really got bolloxed by his start position so close to ermor's cold embrace. but why, after it says his god has been extinguished, does it indicate Atlantis has yet to take it's turn?...

[Jurri]

Oh hoh, now! It was R'lyeh who done killed him, not my peace-loving nation! All I did was defend my holdings against the rabid pack of Atlanteans set on conquering my lands. Guess that didn't help any, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Besides, his dominion was exactly as cold as is mine; indeed, he had quite an interesting tactic involving Deep Seers and the enhanced water/ice elementals. Too bad it was wasted on the one ethereal nation in the game...

[Graeme Dice]

It wouldn't have been wasted if tramplers used their weapons on troops smaller than themselves. Icicle fists are magic after all.

As for the turn question, a player still has to log in to see that they've been eliminated if they haven't yet gone AI. This allows you to see any battles that are taking place.

As for the cold dominion, with all the water on this map, I figured that I didn't need to worry that much about land based income.

It's also somewhat unfortunate that an ancient kraken dies so easily when you send him out before all his research is finished.

[archaeolept]

that's really my problem w/ Atlantis. every time i feel like trying them out, I give up on their pathetic pretender selection. I'm sure the kraken is fine and all, but i'd like even a half the choice that a normal land nation has.

[Cainehill]

True enough - R'lyeh has a couple viable pretenders, but the only one of Atlantis's I find semi-viable is the Dagon, but he has all the drawbacks of any trampling pretender / commander.

[archaeolept]

hey, i'm at a different location, and i'm really superstitious about trying to log in a check to see if the turn has hosted from a different machine ;p so if someone would post whenever the next turn happens that would be greatly appreciated.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[deccan]

archaeolept said:
hey, i'm at a different location, and i'm really superstitious about trying to log in a check to see if the turn has hosted from a different machine ;p



Yeah, I've been bitten by that a couple of times too, since I use three different computers at different times of day. Now, whenever I first log into a game, I always type in the wrong password the first try. Sometimes the "Wrong Password" screen flashes up too fast to see anything, but other times, you can actually see the screen with all the nation icons for a bit before the "Wrong Password" screen flashes up.

[archaeolept]

yah i have no idea why sometimes you can see the nation screen and sometimes you can't when you do that. however, from this machine and/or to graeme's server I'm just never able to see the nations screen.

edit: hmm, i'm guessing the amount of time the nation screen shows in that situation is basically dependent upon the ping -it will give you the screen while it is awaiting some response from the server. since i'm located in the same city as graeme, the nations screen basically doesn't show...

[Jurri]

There's a new turn in.

[archaeolept]

the server seems to have accidentally been put on a 20hrs quick host schedule. i'll send graeme a note, since this is clearly not correct.

but just a heads up - try to get your turn in quickly today i guess.

[Graeme Dice]

Don't worry about the timing, I'll set it back to 48 hrs now that the turns actually run.

[archaeolept]

ok thanks graeme

[Cainehill]

New turn just ran, as I felt a need to upload tonight since the turns still haven't been set back to normal hosting.

[archaeolept]

did anyone stale? the hosting schedule was at 20 hrs, and its still at 20 hrs. Perhaps graeme has some utility telling him when games have hosted, but it doesn't seem to be working.

[Cainehill]

No one staled this time, but I would have if I'd waited to do my turn tomorrow and Graeme didn't set it back to 48 by morning.

[Graeme Dice]

The hosting has now been set back to 48 hours from now.

[Zooko]

If anyone is waiting for a good moment to invade Ermor, I happen to know that a large Ermorian army of 180 undead units, led by his Prophet and a couple of other Wraith-Sword-wielding commanders, two priests, and four mages, is waaaaay over here in Sinai, and if he stays long enough to conquer my entire nation then he'll be stuck over here for at least four turns.

This public service announcement brought to you by,

Gan, the Great and Merciless and Temporarily Incorporeal

[Jurri]

Zooko said:
Gan, the Great and Merciless and Temporarily Incorporeal



How is it temporal? Seems pretty permanent to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Turms]

New turn again!

[Zooko]

Next game, Gan will be back!

What are the rules for losing, exactly. I thought I had a fortress, several commanders, and two provinces. The commanders included many priests for calling Gan back. (And in fact, they had almost finished.)

I'm sure that I would have lost eventually, but I would like to know what the rules are for losing instantly.

[Cainehill]

Probably a dominion kill, where the strong dominions of your two closest friends, er, neighbors, wiped out your own. When you no longer have any provinces with a positive dominion, it's all over.

[archaeolept]

yah check the graphs. zooko had almost no dominion left at the end - should have put half the priests on preaching

better luck next game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Turms]

New turn

[Zooko]

Jurri:

Hi! No hard feelings about you crushing me like that. I deserved it!

I'm a newbie. This game and another one currently on-going are my first two MP games.

My strategy was to have double-blessed giants and rush to attack my nearest neighbor. I took Earth Mother with Nature-9 and Earth-9, Niefelheim, Cold-3, and I had to pay a steep price e.g. Drain-3, Watchtower. I also took Turmoil-3, Luck-3 solely for the fun factor.My expansion against independents went well right away, and then I encountered Abysia and attacked without hesitation. I took a couple of provinces from Abyssian troops, but then my strategy fell apart when twice in a row Abysia's Virtue slew a giant and my entire army routed. I finally learned how to configure a non-commander unit or two to start at the rear and to hold-and-attack to prevent routing, and on that turn I got somewhat lucky and my Niefel Jarl's Breath of Winter killed the Virtue.

However, having lost dozens of giants to the Virtue (about half of them slain while routing) meant that I couldn't break the walls of her fortress. By the time I had recruited a new army (very slowly, due to my bad scales and expensive commanders), she was reincarnated and wearing a ring of protection from cold.

After that we spent a couple of turns in grinding war of attrition against each other before hastily calling a truce in order to prepare for the inevitable invasion from the likes of yourself. :-)

So I would say my strategy probably isn't very good -- most experienced players can probably figure out how to stop double-blessed giants in early game even if the giants don't stupidly rout. Obviously the lack of research, the bad scales, etc. are a huge disadvantage. Also if graphs are public, then perhaps the whole concept of "rush to attack your neighbor" is a bad one.

However, I might try it again sometime and see how it works when I do more things right. If I face a powerful pretender with excellent defense like the Virtue in early game, there's a chance that Breath of Winter, Hand of Death (from a Niefel Jarl) or Fists of Iron (from the Earth Mother) could kill it. My intent was to focus all resources (including the Earth Mother) on conquering a neighbor and only then to start research.

I think double-bless troops is a typical newbie strategy. For what it is worth I've done the same strategy in the other MP game I'm in (Argitoth's), and it has worked well so far. In that game I play Marignon led by the flaming head Baphomet with Fire-9 and Astral-9. The flagellants and paladins, plus a white knight or two are excellent against independents and against the player (Argitoth) that I've fought. However, once again I took Drain-3 and I have the sneaking suspicion that the other players -- those that I haven't tangled with -- are so far ahead of me in research that I am utterly doomed even if I manage to win this extremely expensive war against Argitoth.

Maybe the most important lesson for me to learn is not to start wars. Perhaps starting wars in Dom2 is like the game of global thermonuclear war in War Games. "Strange game, Professor. The only way to win is not to play.".

Regards,

Gan, the Great and Merciless and Permanently Incorporeal

[Cainehill]

Double blessing can work - in fact, I think it's fairly viable with Jotuns. Niefelheim though - can't remember if they still get the Jotun Woodsmen, and the Niefel giants are pretty expensive to build a strategy around (especially as they're capitol only, as are the Woodsmen). When you go so heavy on a bless strategy, it doesn't make sense to build all that many non-blessed troops....

And if your troops were routing frequently, it doesn't sound like you centered it around the woodsmen / Niefels, since once blessed they wouldn't have routed. (You _were_ blessing them, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Also, Earth Momma doesn't go particularly well with Jotunheim, imo - her fatigue climbs _way_ too fast, since she isn't comfortable in the cold. Personally, I think Nature/Water works better with Jotunheim; possibly Nature/Fire, or Nature/Air (protection from all those nasty crossbows).

Better luck to you in the future.

[archaeolept]

I think double-bless troops is a typical newbie strategy.

yes yes no doubt

/me whistles innocently

;p

[Zooko]

Yes, Niefel still gets woodsman troops, woodsman scouts (commanders), Jotun Jarls (different from Niefel Jarls) and Jotun Godes. Plus Niefel Jarls and Niefel giants. Lots of good bless troops! I really like the Woodsman Scouts. They cost no more than Woodsmen -- 50 gold, 11 resources -- and they are stealthy commanders with javelins.

They *were* blessed, but the routed because all units were either commanders or bodyguards, and one unit was killed. :-P

As to which blessings to get, I searched all of the Jotunheim pretenders to see if I could get two reasonable blessings for the cheapest price in points. Earth Mother Nature+Earth was the cheapest. I would take any pair of blessings made up of Earth, Fire, Water, Nature, Blood and Astral, except not Astral+Nature.

That's a good point about Earth Mother getting tired. I hadn't thought of that.

[Turms]

archaeolept said:

I think double-bless troops is a typical newbie strategy.

yes yes no doubt

/me whistles innocently

;p



Hello archaeolept. I saw your dragon in action, he was impressive.

But I was really amazed when I tried to count how much a fire 9 astral 9 dragon costs. Urgh.
I would never have guts to pay so much for the pretender.

Care to share your scales? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Turms

I put most of my points on scales, but that did not prevent me from getting stuck in Italy...

[archaeolept]

yah, you need truly atrocious scales for something like that. really, w/ zen's scale mod included such ultradragons will cease to be viable, i think. but i'm a fan of pushing bless strats when the opportunity arises. hell, when i encountered thufir's super cyclops (A4E8N3), 140 hp 30 prot mistform mirror image 14 regen, i only lost 110 gold in troops taking him down...

the scales are so bad i was trying to avoid spreading dominion, until i started to risk dominion death - i think it was around turn 20 i was down to a combined total of 7 pts of existing dominion in the world... :O

edit: hmm, it might actually have been only 5 pts - i seem to remember having dom3 in my cap, and domions of 1 in two territories.

[Zooko]

What use is the Astral magic to the dragon? I know you can cast some useful things like Luck with Astral 1. What else does he do with it?

[Jurri]

Luck, body ethereal, astral shield, astral weapon, cool evocations and even cooler thaumaturgies!

[archaeolept]

what can't you do is the better question http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

its very expensive, but adding luck and ethereal basically makes it extremely unlikely he'll pick up any afflictions wiping out indies. astral weapon means he's a potent SC killer even into the late game. and S9 makes him an astral king capable of natively casting wish, or whatever other high level ritual one might want. or battlefield support magic.

[Jurri]

Indeed! But once he's killed some ~4 times he'll be in the mind duel range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[archaeolept]

hmm, the hosting period keeps being reset. I guess graeme has been having to reboot his server.

edit: hey cohen wake up! just you left to go ;p

[Truper]

Ok, All you European War 2 players - Arch says there's a new turn, though for some reason he's having trouble posting.

[archaeolept]

testing testing

edit: hmm, as soon as truper did his post i was then able to post again

[archaeolept]

new turn

(still have these weird posting problems)

[Turms]

Hello all,

A new turn is waiting again!

Turms

[Cainehill]

The wheel has spun once more - new turn.

[Cainehill]

Bah. Another new turn so soon, and bit by the 'Checking game status with a partly done turn' feature.

[archaeolept]

oh yeah, that's a pain. I try to do the essential things when i first look at a turn, in case that happens.

[Turms]

Let's play! New turn.

[Jurri]

New turn.

[Crash]

Dang it Abysia, WTH do you think you are doing sending that angel deep into the steel lands?

For your sake she'd better be half-priest. If I can't kill her, I can surely erase the dominion where ever she is not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Turms]

New turn again.

[archaeolept]

and another comes

[Turms]

Mictlan has ttacked Machaka!

Everybody, use your chances now!

Turms - Machaka

P.S New turn is waiting.

P.S.S. I might have some problems making my turn in the next few days, I would really appreciate if you would wait in case I cannot play. I should be able to come back in time, but I cannot be really sure.

[archaeolept]

i'm fine w/ turning off quickhost for the next bit. I certainly would like you to whomp something of mine w/ your army and SC's http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

turms, you should probably pm graeme or email him asking him to turn off quickhost.

and I wouldn't say I attacked, more like a proactive police action. everyone likes police, right?

;p

[Raspi]

How come I cant connect to the server anymore? I'm playing R'lyeh (trying to connect to 68.148.43.237:8500).

[Turms]

I am having the same problem!

I know I am the Last to do the turn, I hope I will not stale http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[archaeolept]

try opening an instance in one window, and then another in another window. also, you can pm graeme to restart his server instance.

edit: hmm, i just retried and it didn't work. I think his server is down.

[Cainehill]

Yeh - both Europe games are down right now.

[Graeme Dice]

I'm restarting right now.

[archaeolept]

thanks graeme. its back up - just waiting on the spider lord.

[Turms]

Good to hear.

I have my turn ready since yesterday.
I will upload when I get back home in some 4-5 hours.

[Turms]

New turn!

I fear I will lose this war. But at least I was able to do some damage.
One archdevil and two icedevils died Last turn, so go for the summons!

Turms the spiderlord with no spiders

[archaeolept]

yes, very nice counter-attack turms. I was clearly being a bit over-confidant there; but also you had a nicely balanced set-up, and quite a bit of punch.

[Graeme Dice]

My server is having serious problems that I believe are related to NAV 2005. I'll see what I can do to improve the stability somehow.

[Cainehill]

And the wheel has turned, and we have a winner!

[Turms]

A great prize awaits!

For the brave country who challenges the infidels of Mictlan the brave warriors of Machaka will offer the famous Alchemist's Stone!

The conditions are - attack Mictlan - fight a major battle - win or lose, the stone will be yours!

Just a hint - a major invasion very soon - the great Hammer of the Forge Lords is lying in our coffins. Maybe it might be of some use to the enemies of our enemies...

Orunjan - the Immortal Sun

[Crash]

Ermor,

You should know that wiping out the Ulmish armies as they scramble to reform will only prolong your demise.

Initially you were to be offered a quick death, that will no longer be an option I fear.

-Crash


On a related note, could you do me the service of placing a useful helmet on the next summoned monstrosity you send north. The forges of Ulm offer little in the way of headgear.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jurri]

Crash said:
On a related note, could you do me the service of placing a useful helmet on the next summoned monstrosity you send north. The forges of Ulm offer little in the way of headgear.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Sure, whatcha need? Flame helmet ok?

[Turms]

Seems the game has hosted. I was not the Last to move if you wonder.

The brave warriors of Machaka killed Bob Ethanim the archdevil this turn - or maybe he killed himself - or it killed itself. Whatever...

The real armies of Mictlan are stilll untouched, but we are not afraid.

Orunjan - the Immortal Sun

[Cohen]

Good game to everyone, I got killed.
I left to someone my spoils.

[Crash]

Good game Cohen.

You stomped two of my armies into dust.

Err.. or is it 'rust', since these are Ulmish we're talking about.

[Cainehill]

Ah, it was sweet to be the one to kill Cohen again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Not to mention slaying not one, but two prophets the same turn.

[archaeolept]

goddamn dom2 scripting :grrr:

it decides that bob the archdevil doesn't want to cast his scripted spell, so it pumps out a huge fire elemental, and so drives his fatigue to 192.
effing hell. to top it all off, the whole enemy army was fire immune.
At least i'll get him back. Actually, i'll get him back twice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

hey, i'm the one who's been taking it on the chin in this little war so far. I should be offering prizes for people to punch up that spider-loving mongrel of a phoenix ;p

[Graeme Dice]

What would everybody like to do with this game over the holidays? I can't guarantee that the server will stay up perfectly for the whole time, so it might be best to take a break at some point.

[Crash]

I'm easy. I am staying home for the holidays, so I can play, or I'm fine with the game holding if someone cannot.

[Cainehill]

Could go to pure quickhost - that way if people can take their turns, great, if not, great, no one stales or anything.

[archaeolept]

isn't it pure quickhost at the moment? I sure hope it hasn't been changed back to two day hosting, since I can't get my move done until later today.

[archaeolept]

ok i rushed my turn before heading out to work - so the worm has turned once again ;p

[Jurri]

I second the pure quickhost proposition. If not possible, then its best to put this on hold until Graeme is available again.

[archaeolept]

Newt urn.

[Cainehill]

A newt urn? What magic paths do you need to forge one of those - they produce a newt every month, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[archaeolept]

sorry things have been a bit hectic, and so i've taken advantage of the "no qh for the holidays." I'll try to get my turn in later tonight when i get back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cainehill]

Heh. Arch's "tonight" is like Clinton's "is". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Hey! Arch for president! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[archaeolept]

oh god sorry. i'm sick, and just started a new job doing 10 hr days, let alone the normal demands of christmas. I should be able just to get in some turn, but i'm about to pass out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

if you'ld like i could advertise for a sub or something, or i'll just try to get it done tomorrow. though i'm not sure why tomorrow will be any different from today.

again, apologies.

[Turms]

Hello Archaeolept.

I think you should decide whether you can continue the game. If you do not want - find a substitute. If you put yourself to AI it will ruin the game anyways.

I would prefer to get the game going again pretty soon.
In my experience multiplayer games like this cannot survive long pauses. We can only hope that all players are still around.

Turms

I am losing - but please let my kill one little supercombatant before the end

[archaeolept]

ok work week over, sickness gone, holiday tomorrow - turn will be in

also, i'm sending everyone a few gold or gems as penance, and as a new years gift

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cainehill]

Two weeks since there's been a turn in either of the Europe games - about time to declare them RIP?

[archaeolept]

new turn. sorry for the delay - ascribe it as a christmas break, or whatever you all want.

[Jurri]

So when will we be getting back to schedule?

[archaeolept]

graeme must be back. what schedule would people like? I, admittedly, would have a preference for 3 day... ;p

[Jurri]

Well, 3 turns a week is the bare minimum to keep up my interest in the long run, so I'd be partial for 48hQH.

Hopefully Raspi and Turms are still around; they haven't yet taken their turns although it's been two days already.

[Cainehill]

I'd be happier with 48 or 48QH myself.

[Turms]

Hello,

I am here and have done my turn. Only Archaeolept left.

Schedule is not very important for me. I won't Last very long anyways.

Mictlan's supercombatants are too much, I've spent my tricks. The devils (Ice- and Archdevils) were not that frightening - I think I've killed 5 of them. Now the insane dragon and 2 air queens have joined the battle - too much I fear. I see one king of fire on my border too.

I would have thought that someone else would get the air queens - Mictlan is not very powerful air nation. Shame on you if you lose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Turms

[Jurri]

Hey archae, I think you should get a sub for yourself. Or else do your fricken turn already! Also please tell Graeme to set the hosting once your course of action is clear.

[archaeolept]

due to other demands, and so I don't slow down this game, I've turned over my empire to YellowCactus. i suggest exchanging Messages w/ him to make diplomatic relations clear.

New turn btw, and good luck.

[Jurri]

Thanks for the good game archae! I think this game will become quite the thriller though, so too bad you miss it.

[archaeolept]

i'm just overloaded w/ work and still fighting off some lingering bug.

[YellowCactus]

*Bump*
Hey Folks. What sort of turn schedule are we running this game with? I'm all for 48 (or even 72) QH. Or even not QH. We should go with a schedule though to keep this nice slugfest running!
-Yc

[Jurri]

Right now no schedule. Raspi and Turms should probably be emailed to notify them that the show's on the road again, and Graeme PM'd to set the hosting appropriately. Only neither of them has email adresses in their profiles...

Suggestions?

[Turms]

Sorry,

Welcome YellowCactus to the game.

I am still here. I will do my turn tonight.

However, I was playing this game only to see how many of Archaeolept's super combatants I could kill before going down. Now I do not feel very interested anymore.

I think I will play a few more rounds so as not to give Yellow Cactus too easy time. Then I will probably go AI if no one objects too strongly.


Turms

Btw, How did Archaeolept summon those Air Queens? Lucky with independents?

[YellowCactus]

Mictlan Air queens....
They do not exist. Only a figment of your imagination. Think nothing of the matter. However, I would have to belive that 'if' mictlan had air queens, they were summoned by a harbringer (A2), with a ring of wizardry, bag of winds and air helmet.
The harbringer would have been summoned by a Priest of the Moon with simular buffs. The Spider people have outdone themselves with SC slaying prowess.
-Yc

[Jurri]

A new turn has snuck upon us!

[archaeolept]

priest of the moon? by uber-dragon had no need for no steenking priests of the moon!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Graeme Dice]

I've set this back to 48 hr quickhost.

[Turms]

I had completely forgot the harbringer - not a very effective summon unless you really want air...

However, I have some good news, one of Mictlan's Air Queens was killed by Rhuax Last turn. Good chance to get her now if you missed the Last round..

Turms

[YellowCactus]

Don't believe the Spider Propaganda!
-yc

[YellowCactus]

Only Five hours Cainehill!

[Jurri]

Server down?

[Graeme Dice]

The server was down for about a day after it crashed when I wasn't home.

[Jurri]

Ulm and Pan to go. Let's get a grip, fellas: I at least hate games that come to a slow stop! So shall we try yet once more to revive this or shall we bury it entirely?

[YellowCactus]

I don't mind playing this one slow. But would like to get a **Turn Hosting** note on this board so I don't have to check the IP day after day...
-Yc

[Crash]

Sorry,

I'll log in when I get off work... about 12 hours or so, and get my turn in. I just kind of got used to the game not moving.



Crash. (Ulm)

[YellowCactus]

Is this game dead yet?
Hehe.
Every week we do like a turn. Lets take a vote to decide if the game will continue.
Ulm
Rylah
Mictlan-Continue 48 Fixed host
Pan- Continue 48 Hr fixed host
Emor- Continue 48HR quick
Machaka

-Yc

[Jurri]

Continue on 48h quickhost, sayeth I.

[Cainehill]

48hour fixed would be my choice - then we know exactly when the new turns are due / coming.

[Graeme Dice]

I can change it to 48 hour fixed if nobody objects.

[Jurri]

So, umm, anyone still playing this one? 'Cause those graphs look awfully flat.

[YellowCactus]

I thought the game was crashed out...
-Yc

[Turms]

Damn, I did too.

And checking the game it seems I missed the heroic defence of my capital.
Seems I was left with Rhuax, my Phoenix god, one black Sorcerer and 6 magma children.

Turms

[Jurri]

Errr... What? When did this crash?

[Truper]

Quite some time ago. Check the thread for the original European War - seems the two games somehow got mixed on Graeme's computer, making both unplayable.

[Jurri]

Nothing wrong with this one. As far as I can tell. ...Except of course an apparent mass-escape of players. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Graeme might as well take the whole thing down. As an aside to everyone involved, I consider it rather impolite to not even mention that you are quitting.

[YellowCactus]

Well....
We -The mass- didn't really quit. Four of us were taking turns until Graeme posted that the two games were having errors. (I couldn't connect) So I would assume we all stopped because the game was dead.
But it's appearantly not...so...well...hm...I vote to bury this one! (Silence of players who've long since left this one....)
Thanks for Hosting Graeme!
-Yc

[Cainehill]

Is it over and gone now??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif ( Can't connect, so seems likely. )

[Graeme Dice]

I thought that this game had been hosed in the collision with European War 1. If it wasn't, then I'll put it back up right away.

[Cainehill]

*sigh* Looks like everyone decided it was over - 45 minutes til hosting, and 4 out of 6 nations haven't taken their turn.

[Jurri]

Yes, it's my understanding that quite a few players decided it was over some time ago based on misinformation in another thread. Naturally I stopped wasting my time with it also once that became clear, I refer you to the half a dozen posts preceding yours.

[Graeme Dice]

I've shut the game down now, unless anybody's still interested. Sorry about the massive confusion and delays relating to the hosting.

[YellowCactus]

I think Europe is a fun map. Any chance for a EUIII?
-Yc

[Jurri]

Don't sweat it Graeme, it was very fun until christmas. Thank you for taking the trouble to organize and host the game!