Faerun Test Mod - 17 player modded game STARTED

[Soapyfrog]

Details:

www.soapyfrog.net/dom2/faeruntest.htm (http://www.soapyfrog.net/dom2/faeruntest.htm)

This game started recruiting on the QT3 forums, and needs more players.

The intent of this mod is to enhance armies, both magical and mundane and to reduce the role of the super combatant. This mod also attempts to address some of the spells that considered by many to be highly efficient. It also reduces the effectiveness of some of the hoarding strategies which are commonly employed.

Hopefully we covered all of the bases. I *think* we got all of them, but then everyone always thinks that they nailed it. I hope we did.

We're playing on Faerun and we would like to get a full 17 players.

Game Settings:

Indep Strength: 9
Research: very hard
Magic Site Freq: 50
Hall of Fame: 15
Graphs: off
Renaming: allowed
Victory: Standard

Current Player List:

Vanheim - Soapyfrog
Ctis - Huzurdaddi
Jotunheim - balut
Ulm - Rollory
Marignon - TurinTuramba
Abysia - Carnifex
Pythium - Ron_Debry
Pangaea - Guildboss
Man - Mercutio
Ryleh - snowcrash22
Matchaka - Graeme Dice
Acrosephele - dfs
Caelum - Dave Perkins
Ermor - Crash
Mictlan - Saeter
Tien Chi - Balmoth
Atlantis - The Panther

Full up again!

[Cainehill]

When it says "Battlefield spells were all increased in path requirements -- it should be very difficult to cast them now. Specially made pretenders can still cast them but even with enhancers it will be difficult for summons or mages to cast these spells.", that sounds like fireball, bladewind, falling frost, etc, are all basically uncastable by national and summoned mages?

Or is it referring to the ones which affect the entire battlefield?

[Graeme Dice]

Cainehill said:
Or is it referring to the ones which affect the entire battlefield?



It's referring to Wrathful Skies, Fire Storm, Wailing Wind, Wind of Death, and for some reason, rain of stones.

[Soapyfrog]

Yep, just full battlefield effect spells. If you open up the mod file its all in one section not too hard to find you can see precisely what has been done.

[Legacyspy]

I would like to join, but this would be my first multiplayer game, not counting a few hot seat games with a couple of my friends. I would like to take Caelum, if you do not mind a noob. Also, I clicked the link to download the mod and it took me to a new page with a bunch of info like:

#modname "Faerun Test Mod"
#domVersion 2.14
#description "This is Zen's Spell mod combined with tweaks which may help emphasize armies over SC's"
#Version 1.01
#icon "cbspell.tga"
#end

-- Created by Jack Black. Special Thanks to all the playtesters, Illwinter, Shrapnel Games, and of course my Editor Esko!
-- Small, almost insignifigant mods by Huzurdaddi.

-- SPELL MODIFICATIONS

-- NATIONAL SPELLS
#selectspell "Celestial Soldiers"
#pathlevel 0 1
#end

[Crash]

If Ermor is available, I'd like to give it a try.

Thanks,
Crash

[Thufir]

I'd be interested in playing Mictlan.

- Thufir

[Cainehill]

Legacyspy said:
... Also, I clicked the link to download the mod and it took me to a new page with a bunch of info like:

#modname "Faerun Test Mod"
#domVersion 2.



You need to right click on the link and save it (as named) into the dominions/mods directory

[Krootish]

Not a whole lot left, but I'd like to try Ulm anyway.

[Legacyspy]

Now, where do I put the mod, and, can I play unmoded games, while playing this game?

[Soapyfrog]

Cool welcome aboard all.

The modfile "Faeruntest.dm" goes in your mod directory.

To start the game with mod enabled you can use the command line switch as follows:

--enablemod FaerunTest.dm

Or you can enable the mod by starting the game normally and going to preferences, mod preferences, then activate the mod in question.

[Imothep]

did you notice you now have 2 ulm players ? ^^

[Legacyspy]

Yo soapy can I play unmoded games while playing in this one?

[Soapyfrog]

Whoops, Ulm double-billed. Sorry Krootish! You will have to pick a different nation... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Yes... just make sure when you are connecting to/playing unmodded games that the mod is not activated in your mod preferences.

I use command line switches and shortcuts, I find its the easiest way. One shortcut for each MP game I am in, with each shortcut automatically connecting to the game in question and enabling any required mods.

[Graeme Dice]

Soapyfrog said:
Yes... just make sure when you are connecting to/playing unmodded games that the mod is not activated in your mod preferences.



This doesn't matter. If the mod is needed, it gets selected. If it isn't needed, it gets deactivated.

[Soapyfrog]

Ah I did not know that! So its only important to set the preference when you are making your pretender initially.

[Thufir]

Soapyfrog said:
Yes... just make sure when you are connecting to/playing unmodded games that the mod is not activated in your mod preferences.

I use command line switches and shortcuts, I find its the easiest way. One shortcut for each MP game I am in, with each shortcut automatically connecting to the game in question and enabling any required mods.

Actually, as I understand it, this is not necessary. Once it's started the game itself will remember which mods apply.

The only point where you must specify the mod preferences is when you create your Pretender, and (I imagine), if you are creating a game. It is very important, however, to set your mod via preferences while creating your Pretender, as this can really screw up your setup if you have the wrong mods enabled.

Edit:
Ooops - didn't read all the Posts before replying! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[Cainehill]

If the mod was enabled when you create the pretender, you don't have to worry about whether or not it's turned on. Just make sure to not try and use that pretender in a non-modded game.

[Soapyfrog]

How would you all feel about a no watchtower/no mausoleum rule?

[Graeme Dice]

Soapyfrog said:
How would you all feel about a no watchtower/no mausoleum rule?



I'd prefer not to add too many house rules on top of the mod.

[The Panther]

This sounds very interesting. I would like to give it a try. I will take TC, a race I have never played in either MP or SP.

I need time this weekend to work out a decent pretender.

[Soapyfrog]

Excellent!

[Soapyfrog]

Only Atlantis open. If everyone is uploaded on Sunday evening I'll kick off the server with 24H quickhost.

[The Panther]

Woah!

I just did a once-through, quick look at the full mod, and I got to say one thing about it:

I am luvin' it!!!

[Legacyspy]

I could not find the mods directory.
I am using Mac OSX 10.28, I clicked show package contents went to contents then resources then scrolled down. I also went through all of the Mac OS folder. Can some one give me the route to it?

[Soapyfrog]

The Panther said:
This sounds very interesting. I would like to give it a try. I will take TC, a race I have never played in either MP or SP.




I am REALLY REALLY sorry about this Panther, but Tien CHi was already claimed by someone and I had somehow left him off the list.

Could I convince you to take Atlantis? I am going to have to let the other guy take Tien CHi as he really did claim it pretty early on...

[Krootish]

It appears I screwed up. On Ulm I notice that right away and edited the message saying I would take TC, apparently it didn't post. As it now appears that someone else was already granted TC you should go ahead and delete my pretender from the slot.

[Soapyfrog]

Ah thats YOUR pretender? Ok... will do.

Does anyone want Atlantis??

[Legacyspy]

Where is the mod folder that I am ment to put the Faeruntest.dm file in?

[Soapyfrog]

Its a subfolder of the dominions 2 folder.

You are using a Mac so I am not sure if it is somehow different?

[archaeolept]

ooh, someone was having problems in another game recently, IIRC, trying to enable mods on a mac ... ???

I've always wanted to play on the faerum map, but I just can't bring myself to play atlantis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

if someone drops out, then perhaps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh, and i'm a big fan of the "no watchtowers or mausoleums" rule, as those two are generally too good a deal, and castle spamming is much reduced w/ them out of the picture.

[Thufir]

archaeolept said:
if someone drops out, then perhaps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Well if either you or Panther wants to take Mictlan, I think I'm going to give it up. This game really looks like an interesting one - but I'm getting nervous about the time sink.

[Legacyspy]

This is very anoyning. I looked all around and in the dominions 2 file, and I cant find a Mods folder.
Folders I found
Contents
Resources
MacOS
Maps
Rawsound
English.Iproj
Doc
Any suggestions?

[archaeolept]

like i said, i've seen someone else running a Mac complain about this. it seems to me to be a bug - but why don't you just try creating a folder called "mods" and putting the mod files in there. Might work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Graeme Dice]

archaeolept said:
I've always wanted to play on the faerum map, but I just can't bring myself to play atlantis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Well, I'm always willing to switch if you'd rather play Machaka.

[archaeolept]

heh. yah you're the only player I know who likes picking Atlantis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Mictlan is always good fun though. I think I can take up the slack there.

when is this game supposed to start? I should consider my pretender options, and i've never played on this map before...

[Legacyspy]

I tried putting a folder called mods into my Dom2 folder but it did not work.

[The Panther]

Ok, all. I don't mind giving up TC. I tested it a lot Last night and could not really find much that seemed to work. About the only thing good was that the TC summons were made cheaper, which is a very good thing, imho.

I didn't take Atlantis originally because I have already played that race in an MP game and wanted to try a new race.

So... If the Dice man wants to take Atlantis and open up Machaka, I will agree with taking the spiders. If not, then I will go ahead and take the fishies, for I really want to try out all these neat mods.

[Graeme Dice]

Legacyspy said:
I tried putting a folder called mods into my Dom2 folder but it did not work.



Have you applied the Version 2.14 patch? The Version on CD does not have modding capabilities. If you have applied the patch, then you should be able to create a mods directory in:
"/dominions2/mods" Then put the the FaerunTest.dm file in the directory. Then click on the name of the mod under "Preferences, Mod Preferences" in the main menu for Dominions.

[Legacyspy]

I have 2.14 patch installed.

[archaeolept]

much as i do want to play the faerum map, i have finally noticed that this is on the large Version w/ very difficult research and w/ an untested and, as far as i can tell, undocumented scales mod. this'll be too much for me, so I have to, unhappily, bow out.

[Soapyfrog]

Alright so The Panther is in as Atlantis? If all pretenders are uploaded I will kick it off tonight.

*Edit* and I see they are not so I suppose, pending that, we shall wait.

[Legacyspy]

Since it apears no one can help me load the mod, I am out.

[archaeolept]

soapy - i don't think the game is full. you should re-edit the title.

at least from this thread, Mictlan is still available. as well, legacyspy can't get the mods enabled on his mac, so caelum is "up in the air" (;)). To me, this looks like graeme is still in for machaka, and the panther will likely have a choice between atlantis, mictlan, and caelum, and there will still be two open slots.

[The Panther]

I will take Atlantis. I am right now working on a pretender, and will be uploaded before bed tonight.

[Cainehill]

Legacyspy - I'd suggest you start a new topic with a title like "Loading Mods on the Macintosh???". I've seen other people mention in threads like this that they were having problems, but no one seems to have _ever_ bothered to actually post where the developers and other macintosh Users would see it.

[Soapyfrog]

Assuming Legacyspy can resolve his *shudder* Mac problems ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) we can probably start the server tonight...

[Soapyfrog]

Still waiting for the Last few pretenders.

BTW it has been proposed that we run 24H Fixed, due to the number of people involved.

Any serious objections?

[archaeolept]

you guys are still missing two nations, but i guess you don't seem much concerned. The loss of mictlan will give a serious boost to huzurdaddi's c'tis, however. And given the number of Qt3 players who've been roped into this game, I feel confident predicting a massive c'tisian empire.

good luck w/ all that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Mictlan is still in, I havent heard otherwise...

Edit:
Ohh somehow I missed Thufir's post. Alright, Mictlan is open again!

[Huzurdaddi]

I feel confident predicting a massive c'tisian empire.




Thanks for the vote of confidence archaeolept!

But I know in my heart of hearts how it will go down. Every multiplayer game of dominions2 has gone the same way for me. There will be a dogpile and it will happen pretty early. On the plus side it will be pretty early and I will not get too invested in the game.

But the 1st 15 turns will be fun. They always are.

And what's the 2nd nation that we are missing? Ah you are counting legacyspy out for the count. Well we'll give him a little bit of time to try and iron it out. Although if you can't fix these kind of problems in an hour or so they are probably not going to get fixed.

[The Panther]

It would be nearly impossible to dogpile ANYBODY within 15 turns on such a gigantic map. You and I are light years apart....

[archaeolept]

this is what lingchih did to get mods working on his mac:
t's simple, but not very well documented. Most of the Dom2 files (maps, etc.) reside inside the Dom2 Package on OSX. But the mods directory lives in the Dominions2 game saves directory, at the root of the hard drive. Just drop your mod in there, and it will work just fine.




so if legacyspy checks back in, he could try this...

[Saeter]

I'll take Mictlan if it's still open. Can upload my pretender in about 12 hours from now.

[Soapyfrog]

Archaeolept: Thanks for the info!

Saeter: Ok cool! Thanks for joining.

[Soapyfrog]

Any news from Legacyspy? I think he might be the only one left to upload after Saeter uploads.

[Soapyfrog]

Ok in the interests of getting this game going I have offered the Caelum slot to someone else. We will start when he uploads.

[Soapyfrog]

Game is STARTED!

Hosting is 24H Fixed. Turn will host at 11:30PM EST daily.

I can adjust this if people want.

[The Panther]

Your Caelum friend did not use the correct mod.

I believe that this means he will have an Arch mage with zero magic.

Very bad indeed.

[Soapyfrog]

oh well perhaps I shall back it out then...

[Soapyfrog]

Ok I have backed out to the pretender upload screen. Unfortunately those of us who have taken a turn will have to reupload pretenders, thats pretty much just you and me Panther.

[The Panther]

Done.

[Soapyfrog]

Game started once more.

Game is set to host at MIDNIGHT EST every day.

[Saeter]

I couldn't log in to the game about two hours ago. My other MP game worked fine though. Anyone else having problems?

Unfortunatley I might miss the next turn because of this depending on when I get home, but it's not too big a deal at this stage in the game I guess.

[Soapyfrog]

There was a problem when the turn hosted and the game Nagot Gick Fel'd.

I set the server back up but it was wigging on turn 7, so I rolled back to turn 6 and rehosted.

So it is turn 7: please check to make sure all is sane with your nation.

[Turin]

Hi
Can you turn the forcehost off for the weekend? I will be away for two days.

[Huzurdaddi]

Turin,

there are 17 people in the game. If we stop every time someone is not around I think we're cooked.

I have no problem stopping the game when a good number of people are away ( maybe around Christmas vacation time, or maybe if enough people vote for it during Thanksgiving ) but if we stop every time someone is away we will be stopping a lot.

Would it be possible to get someone to do your turn? Anyone? Heck you could give your turn ( and key file ) to someone who you think would be impartial ( T'ien Ch'i is always a good bet he's on the other side of the world from everyone ). You could ask archaeolept to do it for you he's a good player and expressed some level of interest in the game and he seems like a reliable chap. Or you could pop into the dominions IRC channel and ask someone to do a turn or two.

[archaeolept]

send me info by pm or at archaelept AT hotmail.com and i'll do the turn, as per any instructions you care to give, if you wish.

[Legacyspy]

Sry guys, I just found lingchih post today. Tobad I did not find earlier, hope u guys enjoy ur game.

[Soapyfrog]

We'll keep a spot open for you in the next one.

[Legacyspy]

Cool ty.

[Turin]

oh well, seems i have missed only one turn, not a big deal.

[Turin]

Hmm this turn was strange. When I wanted to look at my assasins battles I get a "bad vcr header" error. another thing that bugged me was that half my orders were apparently forgotten, so my armies were sitting aruond idly. Any ideas why this happens?

[Soapyfrog]

I'll check the health of the server when I get home. Bad vcr header bug I have gotten when hidden units suffer assassination attempts (normally this doesnt happen; I have seen it only in conjunction with horror attacks on hidden, horror-marked units).

[Soapyfrog]

Server looks ok... I dont see any weirdness. Anybody else seeing bad stuff?

[Soapyfrog]

Hmmm on second glance, my army didnt move either. No idea why.

[Soapyfrog]

I am considering rolling back to the Last turn.

[Soapyfrog]

I rolled back and rehosted turn 14, this time my movement orders went through ok. Everyone please check on your turn since it is bound to be different and report any weirdnesses.

I will leave it at turn 15 until tomorrow night midnight EST, since everyone who issued oreders for turn 15 will have to redo them. I will probably set the game to host at 12:30am EST instead of midnight just in case the host process is running afoul of some other scheduled event.

[Turin]

hmm my turn hosted the same. So most movement orders were forgotten and i still can´t see my assasins fight. It´s not a big deal though.

[The Panther]

My movement orders did not go through either on Turn 14. Everything else happened other than commander movements. Looks like it was likely messed up for many people. No big deal to me, I can live with it.

[Turin]

ok after deleting the folder where the game is in, the turn hosted normally.

[Soapyfrog]

Yeah sorry, you must delete your old game files, since obviously they contain bogus info http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Once they are deleted you should see everything correctly.

Sorry for the confusion!

[The Panther]

Thanks for the tip, soapy & turin. Turn 14 hosted correctly after I deleted the folder. Everything is fine now.

[Crash]

Good game Rollory.

Believe it or not, that invasion was prompted out of fear. I had scouted your territory and saw temples everywhere.

I 'thought' that you were part of an alliance that included the powers currently enjoying a tour of Ermor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

I hope to see you in a game again soon.

Crash.

[Soapyfrog]

He may or may not read these forums, since he was recruited off the quarter to three forums... actually in a thread over there he was lamenting at having chosen Iron Faith Ulm, and finding himself completely unable to deal with the Ermorian hordes.

[The Panther]

Server is down.

[Crash]

Hey Soapy,

I can't register on those Boards for some reason. I emailed the administrator so that might get fixed. Pass on my congratulations to him though on a game well played please.

I think he was doing the right thing. Mass priests is a hard strat for Ermor to counter on the VH research I think (though I'm fairly noob so could be wrong). I think his problem was that I attacked while they were still massing, unfortunately, I didn't have the resources/foresite to do that on one of my other borders.....


Thanks,
Crash

[Soapyfrog]

Hey crash, you just need to email the board administrator to request your account be enabled. Its there in one of the stickied info threads:

http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13830

[Soapyfrog]

Server should be up. Sorry for the confusion, dynamic dns was down. We can roll back if there is great demand, but I think everyone was equally affected.

[Turin]

I still can´t connect. it tells me the server might be down and I should check the ip.

[Soapyfrog]

If there is some great demand for a rollback, we will do so.

[Soapyfrog]

Turin: It really should be working now!!

[Turin]

yeah it was working the second time. No need for a rollback here.

[Soapyfrog]

I propose we go to 72-hour quickhost starting Saturday. I figure most people will be able to scrounge and internet connection at least once every three days between now and the new year? And if they cant well they wont stale very many turns...

How does that sound?

[Saeter]

Soapyfrog said:
I propose we go to 72-hour quickhost starting Saturday. I figure most people will be able to scrounge and internet connection at least once every three days between now and the new year? And if they cant well they wont stale very many turns...

How does that sound?



Sounds perfect to me. I'm also moving to a new town this weekend so before my new dsl line is up I have to play by modem or at a friends place. Would kill me to play the turns that way every day.

[The Panther]

This is an excellent idea for me. It means that I would have at worst one stale.

[Soapyfrog]

Anybody object to me applying the 2.15 patch to the server?

[Saeter]

Soapyfrog said:
Anybody object to me applying the 2.15 patch to the server?


Well I object unless I can get the other MP game I'm playing upgraded also. Or is there a good way to manage Version switches in a Windows installation of the game?

Another matter: I get an error message that the game file is corrupted. Anyone else having problems?

[Saeter]

My other MP game works just fine but this one still says "Turn file corrupted".

[Soapyfrog]

Delete your the game folder and reconnect. If it stil happens we will roll back if we can t find another way.

[Saeter]

Soapyfrog said:
Delete your the game folder and reconnect. If it stil happens we will roll back if we can t find another way.



I've already tried deleting and reconnecting Last turn without improvement. I haven't tried logging in to the current turn yet. Will do that as soon as I get back from work.

[Saeter]

This turn worked fine so I just missed one turn because of the corrupted file. I think nothing serious happened so let's just keep going. Next turn is 72 hours quickhost then, right?

[Soapyfrog]

After the next host I am going to set it to 72-hour qh, yes.

[Soapyfrog]

Next hosting will be Sunday morning at 1:00am EST, and then we go to 72 hours. I extended it a bit since I had to bring the server down briefly for maintenance.

[Crash]

Anyone want to form an alliance??

Ermor is currently fighting a group of 3 players, who have support from at least one other. Ulm has been driven to AI status, but Pangea, Man, and Caelum remain working in concert with the support of at least Jotunheim.

Apparently this confederation had been planned from the beginning of the game, as indicated by the build and expansion patterns of my neighbors.

Ermor is about dead, but the rest of you should know that if you engage one of these guys, you'll probably end up fighting all of them.


Good luck.
Crash.

[archaeolept]

ahh, crash - this game was also advertised on another board, quartertothree, and, as such, the players from there know each other and it is no surprise that a group of them are working in concert. - especially since they most likely have played previous domII games together.

[Soapyfrog]

I am in no position to help, alas. Still working on my little island off the west coast...

[The Panther]

I am miles away from the action, but I hereby announce that I will join in an alliance against any people who start a game allied. That ruins the FFA nature of the game and is unethical at best. I even consider it a form of cheating that people like this do not announce pre-game alliances BEFOFE the game begins.

So, is it Man, Caelum, and Pangaea that everybody else should fight any chance they get? Should Jontunheim also be included in the anti-cheater alliance?

[Turin]

I don´t think that they allied before the game started, or that the alliance will Last if ermor gets destroyed.
More likely they loaded the map after the game started to check out the starting positions and noticed that ermor was put in the middle of them.
So it was probably just the logical choice to take out ermor as soon as possible. Coordination is probably better than in a "normal" dom2 game, because they can easily send each other pms on that board and know each other somewhat.

I´m in another game with some of them as sg ermor myself and I too was under coordinated attack from three nations very early. But that came as no surprise since I was put in the middle of them, so it was only natural to ally against me. Fortunately sg ermor is very good at defense, so I came out ahead in the wars and now 11 out of 15 hall of fame spots belong to my commanders.

[Huzurdaddi]

Well I don't know if I would call it cheating, but it is really unpleasant to be on the receiving end.

I wish I could help him out but my research stinks and I am on the other side of the board.

Finally, I don't think Caelum is part of the alliance and it sounds ( again I do not have 1st hand knowledge ) that Jotunhiem only has a treaty with Man.

[Crash]

Turin:
I don't know the specifics of your other game, so I'm not sure by what you mean by very early. Bear in mind also that this game is VH research., in my case, I was no where near being able to field a non-undead force before turn 2x, especially considering that Ulm had outbid me for the merc bands. Though I admit, I am new to this game, someone else would probably have done better.

In THIS game, Ulm and Man both essentially rushed towards my start, templing all the way in order to show up at my door with a priest horde. That is a tactic that is only possible if you have assurances from your neighbors that they will support you. The ONLY thing that strat is good for is removing Ermor early.

In the case of man, easy neutrals were bypassed in an effort to go straight towards my starting territory. From what I've heard, the turn files of this game will be available at the end. Check them out and see how legit it looks to you, it is possible that I'm way off base. If I am wrong, I apologize, and will happily do so again.

I had thought the whole thing was an amazing coincidence until I:

1) more fully scouted man and ulms territory and noted their expansion patterns.
2) visited the QT3 Boards- to congratulate Ulm on a game well played- and found out that all 4 of the guys who've been fighting me hang out in the same spot, and a fifth guy (Jotun) said he hopes that the other nations leave alone those nations fighting ermor and those nations supporting that fight- implying that he was supporting an effort vs Ermor.

Caelums involvement... may be coincidental, may not be. The timing of his attack is suspect, though his army is of a more realistic composition.

As Ermor, I expected to lose-but have some fun doing it, I expected to have no friends, and to come into conflict with multiple players. What I did not expect was the apparently pre-meditated attention, and the amount of coordination involved -5 players??? who in their right mind wants to go 1v5 from turn 1?

Will the cooperation end once Ermor is gone? Maybe.. or maybe it will have to be re-visited to deal with the next one on the hit list. The important thing here is that you have a block of 4 (formerly 5) players all acting in concert, from the game's beginning. This needed to be publicized.

Was it one group of 5? Or 2 Groups of 2 and an opportunist all working the same direction? I am not sure. Does that distinction matter? I think it might, but again, I'm not sure.

'Cheating'? I would say no. Bad form? I think it is, and it doesn't matter what side of it I am on. Though this was only my second MP dom2 game, maybe this stuff is par for the course.

If this is a problem with all fixed start maps... it really blows.

[Turin]

With very early I mean turn 5-6. It is a game with very hard research and 6 starting provinces.
I managed to hold out with lots of wraith centurions, the fatigue effect form cold 3, my dominion of 10 guaranteeing my wraith centurions immortality and luck( getting militia events in besieged castles etc) .
The problem with ermor is that the armies continually grow without ermor having to pay anything for it.
That means lategame it´s really hard to breach castle walls, especially once ermor has access to ghostriders and can wipe out any nonserious army for a very low gem cost.

If you play ermor vs good players, they will gang up on you early. If you don´t like that fact play a different nation.

You even say that you expect to have no friends and be attacked by multiple players. Why should they wait to attack you in a game with indie strength 9?

[Crash]

Turin: You may be right.

This was not a case of me thinking people should "wait to attack", heck, I was the one who attacked first. There is a difference between aggressive expansion and what has happened this game.

But hey, none of that matters. In the spirit of aggressive, out of game diplo being the mark of a 'good player', I'm still looking for allies.

I know.. if I was really good, I'd have handled this diplo stuff prior to game kick off, but I'm still learning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Graeme Dice]

The Panther said:
I am miles away from the action, but I hereby announce that I will join in an alliance against any people who start a game allied. That ruins the FFA nature of the game and is unethical at best. I even consider it a form of cheating that people like this do not announce pre-game alliances BEFOFE the game begins.



I suggest that you get over yourself instead of whining that people have a planned alliance. There was no mention made of any silly house rules about alliances, so you should assume that people will ally as they see fit. It would make no difference anyways if they had allied before the game started, since any good player who looked at that map would see that you should ally with Ermor's neighbours and rush them early.

[Graeme Dice]

Crash said:
who in their right mind wants to go 1v5 from turn 1?



Why are you playing Ermor on a map that sticks Ermor right in the middle of 5 enemies if you don't want it to be 1 vs 5 from the first turn? Your starting position is not a secret, and any living nation will certainly want to get rid of you or bottle you up in less than a dozen provinces before turn 20 if they can do it.


This needed to be publicized.


I never cease to be amazed at the behaviour of people who complain when they lose to an alliance. That's the nature of the game, and if you don't work the diplomacy angle you will end up losing.


Bad form? I think it is, and it doesn't matter what side of it I am on.



It's not bad form. It's perfectly acceptable, standard, expected behaviour in a game that rewards you well for taking out an opponent early.


Though this was only my second MP dom2 game, maybe this stuff is par for the course.



Well, then as a complete MP newbie, you shouldn't really have expected to Last more than a couple dozen turns against competent aggressive players anyways.


If this is a problem with all fixed start maps... it really blows.



The problem is that you see it as a problem. It's not hard to create a coalition of 5 nations to agree to take out Ermor early once you know where they are, and it's really easy to find them given only a small amount of cooperation.

[Crash]

Graeme:
Thanks for the feedback.

Though I am new to Dom2, I'm not new to multiplayer strat games in general. The "ok, let's goon-squad that guy" tactic is pretty universal across every strat game I've ever encountered, with pretty much the same results.

I'm going to take you at face value here and assume that you're right about Ermor being some kind of hostility-magnet, though In the Euro-wars 2 game- my first MP one, that did not seem to be the case.

Tell me experienced Dom2 guy:
Am I a 'good player' if me and 4 buddies decide we're going to take out playerX before any of us have contact with him/her? And when we do so.. is playerX a poor player if he/she calls us on it?

I'm just making sure here, if I read you right, your answers to the above should be yes and yes.

Also:
I'm not trying to throw stones here. I am new to this game, and this community. This particular game has been a negative experience for me. I would like to know the 'ground rules' you people go by so I can make my decision as to whether this hobby is really for me or not. So far, it looks like more than one player are under the impression that Ermor is not defeatable 1v1, so alliances are mandated, what other nations have that stigma? Also the diplo... what is the accepted standard? Always team with people I know/like outside of the game? Diplo by national preference (ie Marignon vs Ermor)? Or Diplo as to what is actually advantageous for my country at any particular time?

Thanks,
Crash.

*Grame: Completely unrelated question: What game were you checking out that you reg'd here in 2000? *

[The Panther]

My opinion is to pretty much ignore anything Graeme Dice says, as his advice is typically quite poor. You can see from many of his past Posts that he is frequently in the minority on lots of issues. Also, he loves to flame people unnecessarily.

ANY pre-game alliances should be announced before the game starts so that the other players can decide whether or not to play that way and form their own counter-alliances. Anything else is highly unethical. The best you can do as a response is tell everyone when it occurs (like you did) so that other folks know the truth about certain people. Of course, players can always change their handles and do it again. And unfortunately, there are far too many 'Norfleets' in the multi-player gaming communities who have to win at all costs. At least there seems to be fewer of this type in Dominions than there are in Starcraft and many other games.

A possible solution to the pre-game alliance problem is for the developers to come up with a team concept in addition to the standard FFA scenario. I doubt this will happen anytime soon, though.

[Graeme Dice]

The Panther said:
My opinion is to pretty much ignore anything Graeme Dice says, as his advice is typically quite poor.



Well, since I've yet to see any useful advice from you, I'll simply return the favour.


You can see from many of his past Posts that he is frequently in the minority on lots of issues. Also, he loves to flame people unnecessarily.



You really like to whinge, don't you. I flame people who deserve it, and right now, you deserve it.


ANY pre-game alliances should be announced before the game starts so that the other players can decide whether or not to play that way and form their own counter-alliances. Anything else is highly unethical.



Go cry me a river. If there are no house rules about pre-game diplomacy, then anything goes. If you want to play a different type of game, then start your own and make the players anonymous.


A possible solution to the pre-game alliance problem is for the developers to come up with a team concept in addition to the standard FFA scenario. I doubt this will happen anytime soon, though.



That's right, since it isn't actually a problem.

[Graeme Dice]

Crash said:
Tell me experienced Dom2 guy:
Am I a 'good player' if me and 4 buddies decide we're going to take out playerX before any of us have contact with him/her?



That means that you're good at diplomacy, which is the single most important part of the game.


And when we do so.. is playerX a poor player if he/she calls us on it?



No. A player who complains about in-game alliances is whining however when there are no pre-game rules about alliances.


This particular game has been a negative experience for me.



I don't see why it's a negative experience. In any given Dom2 game, only 1 out of the 17 people will win. As such, you shouldn't expect to win more than 1/17 games at the most, and losing early simply means that you can move on to more games.


So far, it looks like more than one player are under the impression that Ermor is not defeatable 1v1, so alliances are mandated, what other nations have that stigma?



It's not that people think that Ermor can't be defeated, it's that Ermor permanently depopulates the provinces. People attack them because they want to keep you bottled up in a few provinces for as long as possible.


Also the diplo... what is the accepted standard?



Make alliances with whoever you want, whenever you want.


*Grame: Completely unrelated question: What game were you checking out that you reg'd here in 2000? *




Space Empires IV

[RonD]

New turn up.

[Saeter]

Graeme Dice said:


ANY pre-game alliances should be announced before the game starts so that the other players can decide whether or not to play that way and form their own counter-alliances. Anything else is highly unethical.



Go cry me a river. If there are no house rules about pre-game diplomacy, then anything goes. If you want to play a different type of game, then start your own and make the players anonymous.





Not that my opinion matters really but I have to agree with Greame on this. How could pregame diplomacy not be allowed, if nothing is said about it? Even if it was an established community house rule, this is an open forum and some players may never have played a MP game of any kind before and would have to be told.

Still, actually I'm playing a Space Empires IV game where only in-game diplomacy is allowed and it's a very good house rule . Makes coordination less powerful because of the 1 turn message delay and also you don't have to put lots of time into diplomatic emailing. I like diplomatic emailing, but it gets quite time consuming when playing many games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Huntsman]

Just found this thread. Whew...

I'm playing Pangaea and there was indeed pre-game discussion about dealing with Ermor quickly. I'm somewhat a newbie too but that has always seemed to be a goal of Ermor's neighbors in my other games--essentially, remove Ermor before it becomes unstoppable. *shrugs* I'm not even fully aware of the logic behind "why" Ermor has big target on its back but I've been around long enough to know that it does and that it's prudent to get them out of the game ASAP.

When I found out I was about as close to Ermor as one could get I had two thoughts: 1) go with Carrion Woods and ally with Ermor or 2) go regular Pangaea and fight Ermor.

That's about all there was to it. "Oh look, Ermor is my neigbor so I either join him or fight him". I don't see how this can be considered bad form or (OMG!)cheating. It's purely a diplomatic/strategic decision. hell, I say the same thing in every game really, no matter who my neighbors are.

Anyway, although I agreed to this war with Ermor I have never actually invaded him though I am trying to keep him from taking over Ulm and, thus, surrounding me on 3 sides.

Crash, sorry you weren't aware of that massive target on Ermor's back. FOr that reason I'll probably never play Ermor in an MP game. I much prefer having friends. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I had no idea what your skill level was. Had I known before the game started I might have gone with my #1 option, with Carrion Woods, and approached you with an alliance offer. I like allying with newbies like me to take on the vets! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Soapyfrog]

The server will be going down at @9:00am EST Thursday, December 30th, for maintenance, and will likely be down for most of the day.

[Saeter]

Since the server is down, could you extend the deadline when it's up again? If the deadline is soon that is.

[Soapyfrog]

Server is back up. The turn is reset to 72 hours.

[Soapyfrog]

So the general assessment is that the turn has exploded. I feared as much but I did not have the time to look at it this morning.

When I get home this evening I will rollback and rehost the turn. That should clear up any inconsistencies.

[RonD]

People should at least try to delete the game folder, then reconnect before we decide that a rollback is needed.

[Cohen]

Well I can't check if I've lost some turns due to my problems.

[RonD]

Cohen said:
Well I can't check if I've lost some turns due to my problems.



I think you should be OK (because, as far as I know, you are not in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif )

[Turin]

deleting the game folder doesn´t help. the login screen says that it´s turn 42, but the actual turn when you manage to login is still 41. So the problem should be solved if soapy just rehosts turn 41.

[Soapyfrog]

Ok I rolled back and rehosted. Game is now on turn 42, next hosting will be Wednesday moring 1:00am EST.

[Soapyfrog]

Note: delete your game folder before connecting, if you had already tried to connect to turn 42 before.

[Soapyfrog]

Set to 48h quickhost now btw.

[RonD]

new turn

[Soapyfrog]

Dyndns service seems to be down.

Here is an IP to connect to for the time being: 24.203.110.39

[Graeme Dice]

Edit:
Oops, wrong thread.

Looks like I'm just about out of this game now. Good playing to you all.

[Soapyfrog]

Any news of Abysia, Tien Chi, and/or Jotunheim?

[Soapyfrog]

I will be setting Abysia and Jotunheim to AI this turn, unless there are strident objections (presumably from the AWOL controllers of said nations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

[RonD]

Turn 56 is up. It looks like the deadline is about 4:00 PM EST on Wednesday.

[Soapyfrog]

Is Crash still around? Looks like he will stale... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Crash]

I'm here,

I am really not sure how that stale happened. I try to check the game regularly but my clock has been kind of messed up lately (rotating shifts can blow). I'll try not to let it happen again.

Crash.

[Huntsman]

I don't know how I staled (Pangaea) last turn either. I think it was because I played offline and just basically forget to reconnect and send the turn! oops. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[RonD]

Hosting is around 1 AM EST.

Ermor and Caelum have still not played.

[Soapyfrog]

Is everyone who is still active willing to continue the game?

[RonD]

Yep

[RonD]

To follow up with a bit more info....

We have had one player replacement (C'Tis) and one large power go AI (Marignon). One not-quite-so-major nation is likely to go AI soon due to lack of time (Pangaea).

I am positive (or in some cases pretty sure) that C'Tis, Pythium, Caelum, and Man are still active and quite interested in continuing.

Of the folks that hang out primarily here, I think we are interested in hearing from Atlantis and Ermor.

[The Panther]

A report from Panther as Atlantis:

I did not know about the Marignon AI situation. I heard that there is another forum where all this is being discussed instead of here, but I do not have the URL for it.

As for the Atlantis game situation, I have lately been inclined to quit this game. My RL with my ongoing divorce plus changing jobs and moving into an apartment has gotten much too busy lately and I have already had some stales in the game. The big problem for me is that I did not want to go AI because I believe that I am a major power in the game. As far as I can tell from my scouts, only C'tis has a larger empire than me. I also have a huge army of over a thousand troops (nothing truly weak except for a few random militia) and lots and lots of mages, though it is spread all over the place. I have the three water queens fully outfitted, of course. Due to a lack of personal time to really spend the proper effort for my moves, I have just been biding my time in the game and fortifying every province. I did not want to commit to spending the time to enter into a major war because of my RL situation.

I also have a natural gem income of 147 per turn, not counting my few sea troll kings and clams and other sources. The gems are piling up and I am hard pressed to keep up with spending them due to a lack of time to invest. I probably also have several hammers on mages that are currently researching, as inevitably happens.

One of the things that really was bad for me was the programming error in the mod for clams. They were supposed to be 4W but came out 4F for unknown reasons. With my massive water income and the Malestorm up, I could be buliding clams towards wish with my 37+ water income. But converting water to astral to fire to make clams is ludicrous. I even feel this was not a good test of the mods because of this mistake. So all I can really do now with water gems is summon more sea trolls or maybe cast yet another global.

I also believe that the growth mod is way too much at 0.5% per level. With my growth 3, I have three provinces with about 70K population each and my income from these three places alone is 1535 gold per turn. I have so much gold pouring in (5K per turn now) that I am just recruiting Kings of the Deep randomly in various castles with barely a thought about what I should be doing with them. I am also building up towards 20 PD in EVERY SINGLE province (I am guessing I have about 50 provinces now), just for the heck of it.

Having said all that, I truly believe that the mods we are using in this game is certainly a step in the right direction. I summoned lots of troops that I have never summoned before. I have built some artifacts never before seen by me.

But I think that one of the problems with this test game is that the map is simply too big. It would be a better test on a smaller map with fewer players. Too many people have already quit or gone AI, which always happens on a gigantic map with 17 players. The game will certainly never be finished.

Keep me informed about the game situation, and if anybody wants to inherit a powerful nation on turn 68 on a much-too-large map, then let me know and I will gladly give it up.

[Soapyfrog]

The forums are at www.quartertothree.com (http://www.quartertothree.com), thread for the game is in the "Games" section (go figure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

I agree with your assessment: map too big, some stuff still a little unbalanced (like growth scale).

Interest in the game for the remaining players seems high still. I have taken over Ctis, Huz now controls Vanheim.

It is a LOT of work, I admit. I do not spend more than half an hour - 45 minutes on my turns just so as to stay sane..

[Huzurdaddi]

Panther,

I'm sorry about the mistake in the mod. I totally screwed up wrt. the Clams. Wrt. the growth scales 0.5% was too much I agree. I based it upon how long it would take one scale of growth to equal 1 scale of order ( 13.5 turns -- assuming 0 growth income which I *ahem* forgot to do ) which is too few turns.

Anyway if I can muster the energy for another game I think the next version will be better. Perhaps soapy will make the new game without me. The next mod is very similar to this one except growth was fixed to .3 all units were given at least 1 enc and life drain was removed.

But I don't know if I can spare 2 - 3 hours per turn again. No wait I'm quite positive that I can't. And it drives me insane, so that's right out. I do enjoy the early game though.

[Soapyfrog]

IMHO we should play this mod on the Orania map in future; I think it has many benefits including good integration of the water races and total wrap-around which imho is quite important for a properly balanced game.

If someone can suggest a bettr map for 17 players I am open to suggestion.