More spell questions... [Archive]

Boron

November 16th, 2004, 06:54 PM

PDF said:
Does he/she/it keeps his/her/its items ? I suppose no, they should get to the former master Lab if possible, isn't it ?

Kristoffer was imo kidding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
Iirc you can wish for uniques endless , so you could have e.g. 10 Belphegors etc. .

Yvelina

November 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM

No, Kristoffer O was kidding. You can wish for an unique commander, but you will get a brand new Version. No items, experience, or HoF abilities will be copied. Furthermore, if an Air Queen dies, and you call her back, she appears with no experience, injuries, or abilities, even if she was in the HoF. You can then even mummify the original.

deccan

November 16th, 2004, 09:44 PM

Yvelina said:
No, Kristoffer O was kidding. You can wish for an unique commander, but you will get a brand new Version. No items, experience, or HoF abilities will be copied.

I knew it was too good to be true. :sniff: :sniff:

Still, do wished for commanders need to be GoRed?

And what do you think I can wish for that can best deal with an air queen? I still think another air queen...

And I have another question: if I cast a global enchantment in a province with an enchantment bonus site, will the discounted cost properly count towards resisting a dispel?

Huzurdaddi

November 16th, 2004, 10:37 PM

And what do you think I can wish for that can best deal with an air queen? I still think another air queen...

A couple of dudes with moonblades and very high attack ( ring of the warrior/burning pearl) should deal with the problem quite quickly.

Yvelina

November 16th, 2004, 10:37 PM

> Still, do wished for commanders need to be GoRed?

If it is a wished commander, no. But if you wish for something that starts as a unit that needs to be led, like for example a Tarrasque, you have to GoR it.

> And what do you think I can wish for that can best deal with an air queen? I still think another air queen...

Well, it depends on how the Air Queen is equipped, and what equipment you have available. In the best of worlds, she is parading around naked, and you can send an Arch Devil equipped with Mage Bane, Blood thorn, Amon Hotep, Chainmail of displacement, boots of quickness, pendant of luck and a ring of lightning.

In less perfect world, you may be better off swarming her with Caelum scouts wielding elf slayers, or spamming her with false horrors while freezing her heart... i.e. you have to look at what she is vulnerable to, and see which of these vulnerabilities you can exploit.

If you want advice from the forum, you should tell us what she is wearing, and what race you are playing.

Graeme Dice

November 16th, 2004, 11:30 PM

Yvelina said:
If it is a wished commander, no.

All wished for units start out as non-commanders and must be GoRed.

As for what you should wish for, you might want to not wish for anything, and instead alchemize your pearls to something else.

Reverend Zombie

November 16th, 2004, 11:44 PM

deccan said:
I knew it was too good to be true. :sniff: :sniff:

*snip*

And what do you think I can wish for that can best deal with an air queen? I still think another air queen...

Or maybe you could just leave her alone, if she's not really bothering you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

deccan

November 17th, 2004, 01:07 AM

Reverend Zombie said:
Or maybe you could just leave her alone, if she's not really bothering you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Well, yours isn't the only AQ I'm having trouble with in an MP game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But it still makes a good example, y'know like in a strictly academical, not that I would ever want to use it or consider breaking our NAP but let's just ask anyway just in case way... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'm playing AE Ermor in that game with Reverend Zombie. The scenario I want to ask about a counter for involves an AQ (the one with glamor) equipped with a flambeau casting Wrathful Skies before attacking. In Reverend Zombie's case, the AQ did not have CR or FR at that time, but it wouldn't be wise to rely on it.

After thinking about it for a while, the best thing I could come up with was a swarm of mechanical men led by a few SR firbolgs armed with Standards of the Damned. This should work but the setup has low mobility and it would be hard to catch the AQ specifically.

Moonblades (Huz's suggestion) probably won't work too well IMHO, because you need to count on the AQ's mirror image protecting her from a few hits (in which time she will most certainly hit you). But IIRC, wraith swords do fatigue damage even if it hits a mirror image, so that would be my choice, but using what anti-SC chassis?

Any sort of undead / demonic chassis would die quickly to the flambeau, so what else? Firbolgs are too fragile, which is why I'm thinking of another AQ...

Graeme Dice

November 17th, 2004, 01:58 AM

deccan said:
After thinking about it for a while, the best thing I could come up with was a swarm of mechanical men led by a few SR firbolgs armed with Standards of the Damned.

Well, for the death nations, your standard anti-SC tactic is D4 mages casting drain life. Demiliches are perfect for this in a defensive or offensive role.

Any sort of undead / demonic chassis would die quickly to the flambeau, so what else? Firbolgs are too fragile, which is why I'm thinking of another AQ...

Sea troll kings are a possibility, though their stats aren't stellar.

Huzurdaddi

November 17th, 2004, 02:39 AM

Moonblades (Huz's suggestion) probably won't work too well IMHO, because you need to count on the AQ's mirror image protecting her from a few hits (in which time she will most certainly hit you).

Well I did say a couple of dudes. Assuming you can find something that will not be roasted in one hit by the flambea ( trolls are one possibility as mentioned above ) you will be able to take far more hits than she will ( since she will *I think* die on the 1st hit ... hmm just did the math it will take 2 hits ).

Well, for the death nations, your standard anti-SC tactic is D4 mages casting drain life

This is 100% correct. I also think that bane fire will work dandy assuming you can hit with it. One hit or two not exactly sure but she will be cooked quite quickly assuming you can hit.

archaeolept

November 17th, 2004, 03:51 AM

golems w/ skull standards.

fairly cheap, can't be sucked w/ lifedraining weapons, and can teleport right into the action. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Huzurdaddi

November 17th, 2004, 04:54 AM

golems w/ skull standards.

NICE ONE!

WraithLord

November 17th, 2004, 07:15 AM

archaeolept said:
golems w/ skull standards.

fairly cheap, can't be sucked w/ lifedraining weapons, and can teleport right into the action. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Please enlighten me. Why skull standard?

deccan

November 17th, 2004, 07:23 AM

izaqyos said:
Please enlighten me. Why skull standard?

I believe he meant standard of the damned. Anyway, what about my question about global enchantments and enchantment bonus sites? Does it work like you'd intuitively expect (i.e. spend 50 gems on Mother Oak in enchantment bonus 20 site and you get 10 free gems worth of dispel protection)?

Reverend Zombie

November 17th, 2004, 10:42 AM

deccan said:

izaqyos said:
Please enlighten me. Why skull standard?

I believe he meant standard of the damned. Anyway, what about my question about global enchantments and enchantment bonus sites? Does it work like you'd intuitively expect (i.e. spend 50 gems on Mother Oak in enchantment bonus 20 site and you get 10 free gems worth of dispel protection)?

I think some people have reported bugs where some globals cast a discount sites are not Lasting as long as they should, i.e., an enchantment that costs 10 less to cast because of the site with +11 gems pumped into it for extra duration only Lasts one extra turn, instead of 11. Not sure if this bug affects the dispel calculation or not.

deccan

November 17th, 2004, 11:52 PM

I have read that post by alexti about domes not Lasting as long as they should when cast in a province with an enchantment bonus site and suspected that the same problem might exist for globals as well, though I wanted to know if anyone had first-hand experience of this. I guess it's kind of hard to tell though, unless someone set up an SP game to test this specifically.

Oh well, never mind. Here's are another two questions to anyone who knows:

1) If a stealthy mage teleports / cloud trapezes to an enemy controlled province, is it a sneak or a move?

2) Is a stealthy mage that is researching stealthed or not? How about forging, casting ritual, site searching, summoning allies etc.?

archaeolept

November 18th, 2004, 12:09 AM

1. a move
caveat: if its a glamoured unit trapezing out, i believe he/she would still be stealthy in the originating province

2. don't believe they are hidden, but i'm not sure. certainly stealthy priests can preach stealthily.

Nagot Gick Fel

November 18th, 2004, 12:12 AM

deccan said:
1) If a stealthy mage teleports / cloud trapezes to an enemy controlled province, is it a sneak or a move?

A move.

2) Is a stealthy mage that is researching stealthed or not? How about forging, casting ritual, site searching, summoning allies etc.?

None of these actions can be performed in stealth mode. Only 'hide' and 'sneak' can, and 'preach', provided your stealthy priest starts preaching in a neutral or enemy province. Strangely he will retain his 'hidden' status when the province become yours, but will lose it as soon as you change his orders - even if you change 'preach' to 'preach' (Hmmm, I hope this is clearer than mud).

Cainehill

November 18th, 2004, 02:19 AM

archaeolept said:
2. don't believe they are hidden, but i'm not sure. certainly stealthy priests can preach stealthily.

Which really doesn't make a _lot_ of sense : which is less stealthy, some mage hiding in a cave with some books to study, or someone out preaching to the general population?

Kristoffer O

November 18th, 2004, 04:42 AM

Priests gather in catacombs, wisper words of faith to small secluded Groups and are hidden by their friends at the hidden cults.

Mages on the other hand stand on high ground, preferably on the balcony of an imposing tower, raise their wizards staffs and shout arcane words that travel far in the storm just conjured.

If they just sit in the library and study everyone knows it as well. Libraries are open to the public and besides the mages constantly complain that the book they want to study is already taken by that old bookworm Theostratus. A clever assassin should have no problem finding Theostratus. Especially as he brings a huge trunk of books with him home each night. Mages are not bright enough to hide from mundane threats. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Boron

November 18th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Graeme Dice said:
As for what you should wish for, you might want to not wish for anything, and instead alchemize your pearls to something else.

I personally have the feeling that it is all in all for many nations most economic to wish for gems .

The 175 gems you get per wish equal 325 pearls .
The costs for a "normal" wishcaster which starts with S3 are about 200-300 pearls depending what you can forge and what not .
But compared to not empowering a wishcaster + alchemizing the pearls instead normally wishing reaches break even point at the 2nd wish for gems already .

And wishing gives you the best flexibility . In a few turns a non-bloodnation can become a superior blood nation too by wishing a few pazuzus ( 2-3 ) and then blood .
The pazuzus summon a few vampire lords and then can summon monthly storm demons while the vampire lords can do horde from hell , forge soul contracts or summon forces of darkness .

Imo wishing is the most economic "strat" , the problem is only always time but you can often influence that a lot in your favour with good diplomacy .

deccan

November 26th, 2004, 11:53 PM

I have even more spell questions...

1) What does "Wind of Death" do?
2) I suppose that "Rain of Stones" is a "do damage to everything on the battlefield once" spell rather than a "do damage to everything for the duration of the battle" spell?
3) If my caster is in a domed province and casts "Wind Ride" out from that province, will the targeted commander enter that province correctly?
4) Does anything protect against acid type spells, e.g. Acid Storm?

Nagot Gick Fel

November 27th, 2004, 11:25 AM

deccan said:
1) What does "Wind of Death" do?

Everyone on the battlefield must pass an "easy" MR check (ie, with a +4 bonus) or start to decay.

2) I suppose that "Rain of Stones" is a "do damage to everything on the battlefield once" spell rather than a "do damage to everything for the duration of the battle" spell?

Correct.

3) If my caster is in a domed province and casts "Wind Ride" out from that province, will the targeted commander enter that province correctly?

Correct. Domes only stops rituals targeted AT the domed province. Here your Wind Ride targets another province, the fact that the windrode leader ends his journey under your dome has nothing to do with the targeting itself.

4) Does anything protect against acid type spells, e.g. Acid Storm?

Acid Resistance protects vs Acid - the only problem is no Dom 2 unit comes with Acid Resistance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Endoperez

November 28th, 2004, 02:45 AM

Armor does protect versus acid, to an extent... Unfortunately, acid eats your armor away!

deccan

December 6th, 2004, 09:45 PM

One more spell question: how bad is the downside to Stygian Paths? Is there an actual combat or does the mage / troops just get damage or something?

Graeme Dice

December 7th, 2004, 12:44 AM

They get damaged. I'm not sure how much, but it was enough to kill a pretender when it used to be all applied to the mage leading the troops.

deccan

December 7th, 2004, 01:09 AM

Used to be? So now it's applied to all troops equally?

Graeme Dice

December 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM

I don't know how it's applied, just that it is. I also don't know what kind of damage it is.

alexti

December 7th, 2004, 10:11 PM

I think it's borked. It will often say that {some insane number} of units has perished. Commander (even sneaky seems to usually die in those cases). However, sneaky units doesn't seem to suffer much.

deccan

December 8th, 2004, 06:13 AM

Wow, looks like a spell to stay away from. I'll try to run some tests in SP.

Kristoffer O

December 8th, 2004, 10:42 AM

Stygian Paths was bugged earlier. It hopefully works better now.

There is no battle. Some units take dmg and others are targeted by a MR attempt on their lives IIRC. Undead are not immune IIRC. The lord of the underworld takes back what is rightfully his.

alexti

December 8th, 2004, 11:25 AM

Kristoffer O said:
Stygian Paths was bugged earlier. It hopefully works better now.

Thanks, that's a good news http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

deccan

December 13th, 2004, 08:33 AM

A couple of questions:

1) Are demons immune to "Darkness"?
2) I tried windriding one of my harbingers out of a province but it said it was too big and heavy. But harbingers are only size 4. So is there some randomness to the allowed size?

RonD

March 13th, 2005, 01:21 PM

deccan said:
What happens when you wish for a summonable unique who is already in play?

Just out of curiosity - HOW do you wish for an Air Queen? I've been messing around in SP, and I could wish for a heliophagus, for example (which, relevant to the original discussion from last November - once GoRed it got a name different from any of the 4 summonable ones). But I tried Air Queen, airqueen, Queen of Elemental Air, and a bunch of other variations and always get told "I cannot give you that".