View Full Version : Team Game Starting
msew
February 25th, 2005, 07:44 PM
START TIME
2005-03-06 11:00am Pacific Standard Time (PST)
Overview
A team game will be starting once there are enough players.
The game will be teams vs teams.
Either 2v2 or 2v2v2 or 3v3 depending who wants to play.
Issues Still To Resolved
The following issues need to be resolved before this game may commence.
House Rules
0) No Life Drain Weapons
1) No merc usage until turn 8
2) No bane venom charm
*others to be determined
Game Server
IP: benatar.snurgle.org
port: 2005
Game Settings
Indys: 8
Research: Hard
Site Freq: 70
Hall Of Fame: 15
Graphs: On
Victory: Standard
Map: s24 http://www.msew.org/~msew/dom2/S24.zip
Timing: 24H QuickHost If you are the last one out you must double turn. So complete your turn. The turn generates you immediately do another turn.
Mods (all of the latest and greatest at the time of the game start)
GameVersion: 2.15
Items: N/A
Nations: N/A
PretenderGods: 2.0 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptp2.zip
Scales: 1.2 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptscale12.zip
Spells: 1.8 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/concepts18.zip
Banned Nations:
0) no pop-killing dominion. (e.g. Ermor, Pan CW ) Death-3 is fine rationale: ruins the war mechanics. Why attack them when there is no gain. Neat idea. Bad for the game unless everyone is playing that type of nation.
1) Caelum. Rationale: Overpowered. Why be anything else?
Player List With AssociatedTeam
ironhawk: vans
msew: ulm
rabelais: arco
VS
Arralen: TC
quantum_mechanic: man
truper: abysia
msew
February 25th, 2005, 07:44 PM
I would like to play in this team game
Ironhawk
February 25th, 2005, 07:51 PM
You know I'm down. I think Q is in as well? Are we going to be on the same team or is that something that will be decided randomly.
Also, how are you going to address the topics of:
1) Capital Placement
How can you insure that team's empires will be located adjacent to each other?
2) Nation Selection
Are we all going to select our own nations? Or will we form teams and then have like a... instant runnoff voting for nation pairings or triplets?
msew
February 25th, 2005, 07:57 PM
>Also, how are you going to address the topics of:
>1) Capital Placement
>How can you insure that team's empires will be located adjacent to each other?
Can't do this that I know of. So if you get placed in a bad place better go defensive and hope your teammate(s) get there to help you.
The indies at strength 8 should help.
In short: Life is hard.
>2) Nation Selection
>Are we all going to select our own nations? Or will we form teams and then have like a... instant runnoff voting for nation pairings or triplets?
What do people want to do? Probably should do a game of mish mash nations vs each other. And another game that is more thematic.
Form teams and then run off would be my preference. Hopefully people will take complimentary nations. I know I will be.
Alneyan
February 25th, 2005, 08:21 PM
You can also have a third party host create a .map with manual placement; this file can be kept secret from all players, so you wouldn't know where the other capitals are.
quantum_mechani
February 25th, 2005, 10:50 PM
I am probably in, though it is stretching it a bit a since I just joined two of Illwinter's Shepherds of Creation games (bringing my game total to five). If we could get it rolling as a blitz that would help.
GriffinOfBuerrig
February 26th, 2005, 09:02 AM
Heyda, iwould like to be in. My suggestion is that we use the Zen Pretender Mod.
...and maybe it is a bit early: i like to pick Jotonheim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
msew
February 26th, 2005, 08:23 PM
yeah we will be using all of the zen mods with the latest version of each at game start
Ironhawk
February 28th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Well, if we have 4 people then should be think about begining the game? 2x2?
quantum_mechani
February 28th, 2005, 06:35 PM
To keep the nation picking going: I'll take Ulm.
Arralen
February 28th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Ok, I'm in.
I'm not shure about the nation, will have to think about it.
Ironhawk
February 28th, 2005, 07:03 PM
I would like to propose a new house rule: no pop-killing dominion. Death-3 is fine if you want to take that but the really vicious pop-killing dominions of Ermor, Pan CW, etc, would be outlawed. IMO they break the mechanics of war in dom2. There is no incentive to attack a player like this because thier lands give you no income.
msew
March 1st, 2005, 04:10 PM
okie we need one more person.
Also:
which map are people thinking they want to play on?
quantum_mechani
March 1st, 2005, 04:29 PM
msew said:
okie we need one more person.
Also:
which map are people thinking they want to play on?
Whatever the smallest one people will agree to would be my choice.
msew
March 1st, 2005, 05:21 PM
so Faerun right?
YellowCactus
March 1st, 2005, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the invite fellas. The team game I'm in is a lot of fun, though time is at a premium these days. Maybe I'll catch the next one?
-Yc
Arralen
March 1st, 2005, 06:18 PM
May I suggest my "Parganos Remade" map, version v2 (attached ..)
It features 135 provinces, 19 of which are water.
Some of the borders are impassable, and marked as such on the map (weren't on the original map). TGA file is reworked to make colours generally more ... colourful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I cut down on the number of provinces which multiple terrain features, in v2 even more.
v2 has some additional bugfixes.
Hope we get everything together for a Blitz Start on Sunday, the 6th
Ironhawk
March 1st, 2005, 08:23 PM
Assuming we get a 6th player somehow, Parganos seems a bit big to me. Just eyeballing it, that would be about 20 provinces per empire before any combat took place. How about a map that is a bit smaller, that works out to say... 10-12 provs per player? So 60-80 provs? Does such a thing exist? What do the other players think?
rabelais
March 1st, 2005, 08:33 PM
I'd like to play. If you need another.
I suggest random teams to make it a level playing field for those of us, who are rusty or new to the team concept.
Then random order on nation picks, with symmetry for the teams as a whole.
(i.e. team 1 picks first and last
team 2 picks second and next to last etc.)
Rabe
msew
March 1st, 2005, 08:45 PM
okie players are closed. (we have 6)
msew
March 1st, 2005, 08:46 PM
rabelais said:
Then random order on nation picks, with symmetry for the teams as a whole.
Rabe
Well so far there have been no over laps in nation picking.
What nation are you wanting to play?
msew
March 1st, 2005, 08:47 PM
rabelais said:
I suggest random teams to make it a level playing field for those of us, who are rusty or new to the team concept.
heh I think this is first time for all of us.
rabelais
March 1st, 2005, 09:04 PM
msew said:
rabelais said:
Then random order on nation picks, with symmetry for the teams as a whole.
Rabe
Well so far there have been no over laps in nation picking.
What nation are you wanting to play?
Depends what is available. I'd love Jotun, for example. They do start fast.
I might make do with some other lesser nation if need be. Arco or Machaka perhaps. But I didn't realize we were actually picking yet.
Rabe
quantum_mechani
March 2nd, 2005, 03:58 AM
Rules clarification: does the no life drain rule apply to native life drain attacks(i.e. vampires)?
Arralen
March 2nd, 2005, 05:08 AM
Houserule Lifedrain
As you can't take it away from them, it would mean banning a whole lot of units, ok, some units. What I'm against.
AFAIK all(?) those units have range-0 as they attack "bare-handed". That gives other units the chance to repel, and damage isn't that high as well (STR I think, while all life drain weapons are at least at STR+3..)
It would mean banning the spell as well, what can only be done for the first 5 turns of combat, so it wouldn't work.
suggested houserule: No bane venom charm !
It's still bugged and gives Exp for killed civilians..
Map choice
I would prefer 12 prov/player as well (72 overall), but how many maps are there in that size?
Mmmh, I could do a special version of Parganos - by cutting of some provinces from the upper edge !?
game settings proposal
Indies 7+, research at least difficult, sites 45-
My choice of nation:
Either Man, Machaka or TC.
msew
March 2nd, 2005, 05:45 AM
quantum_mechani said:
Rules clarification: does the no life drain rule apply to native life drain attacks(i.e. vampires)?
natural life drain is fine.
The idea of banning life drain is to stop the silliness of SCs just being utterly unstoppable by themselves. This is basically due the fact the devs are morons and combined hp regen and fatigue regen into one ability called: "Lifedrain"
msew
March 2nd, 2005, 05:47 AM
rabelais said:
I might make do with some other lesser nation if need be. Arco or Machaka perhaps. But I didn't realize we were actually picking yet.
Rabe
people have just been listing what they want to play.
i.e. if there are no overlaps then we don't have to do a run off / random choice etc etc
Ironhawk
March 2nd, 2005, 07:10 PM
Timing:
Ok, I have a really important question: when are we playing on Sunday? So that people can know when to show up in irc. I would propose:
11:00am Pacific Time (PT)
Which works out to 2pm for east coast US and 8pm for Arralen (who is +1 GMT I believe?).
IRC:
Additionally, I have noted that everyone is posting regularly except for GriffinOfBuerring. I PM'd him yesterday to see if he had an irc client (i know everyone else does) but I havent heard back from him. As this is a team game, we can't handle 1 player deciding not to show up...
Maps:
Also, about maps: doesnt Aran only have 80 provs? 100 maybe? I cant check right now. How many does Sundering have?
Teaming:
I propose that we play a 3x3 team game. With only 2 teams, there will be no double-teaming, or waiting around clamming/fetishing for hundreds of turns. It will just be a straight up slugging match!
msew
March 2nd, 2005, 09:21 PM
Ironhawk said:
Teaming:
I propose that we play a 3x3 team game. With only 2 teams, there will be no double-teaming, or waiting around clamming/fetishing for hundreds of turns. It will just be a straight up slugging match!
agree
rabelais
March 2nd, 2005, 10:02 PM
msew said:
rabelais said:
I might make do with some other lesser nation if need be. Arco or Machaka perhaps. But I didn't realize we were actually picking yet.
Rabe
people have just been listing what they want to play.
i.e. if there are no overlaps then we don't have to do a run off / random choice etc etc
Of course. I guess what I meant was, I'd need to know who my partners were, and consult with them before I knew what I was playing.
Then again, maybe I should just get a Wyrm and go to town, but it seems like collaboration is part of the idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Rabe the Wondering if magic sites are going to be 45ish or ~70 as originally suggested.
Arralen
March 3rd, 2005, 03:11 AM
There's a serious lack of maps with ~80 provinces ...
Aran : 107 provinces, 11 of these are under water
Chandrea - The Dunken Donut : 102 provinces, 17 are water
Albatha : 69 provinces, 13 of them seas
Brittain : 68 provinces
The Sundering: 61 provinces, 10 of these are under water
quantum_mechani
March 3rd, 2005, 01:45 PM
Arralen said:
There's a serious lack of maps with ~80 provinces ...
Aran : 107 provinces, 11 of these are under water
Chandrea - The Dunken Donut : 102 provinces, 17 are water
Albatha : 69 provinces, 13 of them seas
Brittain : 68 provinces
The Sundering: 61 provinces, 10 of these are under water
I would vote for the sundering, makes a nice change from Urgaia.
Ironhawk
March 3rd, 2005, 07:59 PM
No one has commented on my proposal for when this game will actually be played. If people really intend for this to be a blitz start, that is the most important piece of info to agree on. Should I take your silence as agreement?
Griffin responded to my PM. He does not have an irc client but gave me his email so hopefully we can get him up and running in time.
Hahahah, Q. Sundering with 6 people will be nuts! But I will play it if that is what people want. Sundering or Aran - either is fine with me.
As for teams, I would like to be on a team with msew. We play many games together and are frequently enemies so this will be a nice change. If someone else wants to be the third player on the team of me and msew then we will have a team division ready to go...
Ironhawk said:
Timing:
Ok, I have a really important question: when are we playing on Sunday? So that people can know when to show up in irc. I would propose:
11:00am Pacific Time (PT)
Which works out to 2pm for east coast US and 8pm for Arralen (who is +1 GMT I believe?).
IRC:
Additionally, I have noted that everyone is posting regularly except for GriffinOfBuerring. I PM'd him yesterday to see if he had an irc client (i know everyone else does) but I havent heard back from him. As this is a team game, we can't handle 1 player deciding not to show up...
Maps:
Also, about maps: doesnt Aran only have 80 provs? 100 maybe? I cant check right now. How many does Sundering have?
Teaming:
I propose that we play a 3x3 team game. With only 2 teams, there will be no double-teaming, or waiting around clamming/fetishing for hundreds of turns. It will just be a straight up slugging match!
Arralen
March 3rd, 2005, 10:38 PM
Oh, thinking 'bout it .. Sundering wouldn't be so great..
I thought having a Blitz Start on Sunday 19:00 GMT was set from the beginning??
What "sites" setting will we use?
.. my choice of nation depends on it ..
msew
March 3rd, 2005, 10:49 PM
Ironhawk said:
As for teams, I would like to be on a team with msew. We play many games together and are frequently enemies so this will be a nice change. If someone else wants to be the third player on the team of me and msew then we will have a team division ready to go...
okie
one team is ironhawk + msew + ???????????
who wants to be on our team?
Then we can make nation choices before the game starts hehe
msew
March 3rd, 2005, 10:51 PM
Arralen said:
What "sites" setting will we use?
.. my choice of nation depends on it ..
70
nice high number for massive mega death spells and items and such.
Dom2 is supposed to be about war. Not building up for 50 turns and then chain summoning crap onto people's provinces.
WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR DEATH
rabelais
March 3rd, 2005, 11:01 PM
msew said:
70
nice high number for massive mega death spells and items and such.
Dom2 is supposed to be about war. Not building up for 50 turns and then chain summoning crap onto people's provinces.
WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR DEATH
Not that I am opposed to the 70 site frequency, but doesn't having a high site percentage just hasten the time to the chain summoning extravaganza of which you spoke? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I'll be happy to be on Ironhawks and msew's team if they will have me, though I'm not sure I'm doing them huge favors by volunteering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Rabe
msew
March 4th, 2005, 03:32 AM
rabelais said:
Not that I am opposed to the 70 site frequency, but doesn't having a high site percentage just hasten the time to the chain summoning extravaganza of which you spoke? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Rabe
yes and no
-to get to chain summoning you need to have high research. which is why we have research set to high
-high gems means you are able to "splurge" on spells to attack with and make items. VS I need to save up my gems for chain summoning
-so certainly some dude can research and get gems for chain summoning. But his opponents are going to have a lot of gems to be able to just attack attack attack with. Without fear of "wasting" the gems in battle. Plenty more where those came from!
-no need to worry about: Should I spend 20 gems to make this item or should I save them for my summoning spell? MAKE THE ITEM! AND ATTACK!
msew
March 4th, 2005, 03:45 AM
rabelais said:
I'll be happy to be on Ironhawks and msew's team if they will have me, though I'm not sure I'm doing them huge favors by volunteering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Rabe
kk that works
teams are set above
msew
March 4th, 2005, 03:48 AM
OK
mods / game version we are going to use:
Mods (all of the latest and greatest at the time of the game start)
GameVersion: 2.15
Items: N/A
Nations: N/A
PretenderGods: 2.0 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptp2.zip
Scales: 1.2 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptscale12.zip
Spells: 1.8 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/concepts18.zip
msew
March 4th, 2005, 04:23 AM
MAPS:
okie
aran is out. It is a lame map. The two pennisulas are pretty much "safe" havens for whom ever gets their Capital placed near them. If someone is a sea nation then there needs to be another sea nation for parity. It is out.
Sundering is out. Too small.
Maps that I have found that are ok but not great are:
Pargonos2: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/arrs_parganos2.zip
135 provinces, 19 sea provinces.
ISSUES: the people in the middle get fcuked. The people in the upper left hand corner get ufcked due to no money lands. All mountain up there.
Karan: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/karan.zip
162 provinces, 20 sea provinces.
ISSUES: we are playing that now. And it might be a bit too big for 6 people.
Valhalla: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/valhalla.zip
Number of provinces: 112. 23 or 24 sea provinces (from my count)
ISSUES: no real interesting terrain. everything basically connects to everything else. Water circles the entire thing.
Anyone have other map suggestions? It would be nice to let everyone have 15-18 provinces with no conflict. So ~100 province map or so
rabelais
March 4th, 2005, 02:02 PM
msew said:
MAPS:
Maps that I have found that are ok but not great are:
Pargonos2: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/arrs_parganos2.zip
This link fails for me, as did the one further up the thread.
Maybe we should use a "random"? Its true someone might get screwed on starting location, but it doesn't seem like we are avoiding this on the standard maps.
If I find a good one I will post it.
Are we looking for 12prov/player, or 80 total? I think the generator is configurable.
Rabe
Arralen
March 4th, 2005, 02:42 PM
msew said:
MAPS:
Maps that I have found that are ok but not great are:
Pargonos2: 135 provinces, 19 sea provinces.
ISSUES: the people in the middle get fcuked. The people in the upper left hand corner get ufcked due to no money lands. All mountain up there.
Acutally, it isn't all mountain up there. I changed that to make the map more balanced. It's mountain, mountain/forest and forest, some of them "big". With sites=70 you'll have lotsa gems to cash in, so income should be en par with anyone who starts in grass lands. Maybe you would be even better of starting in the mountains, as you'll have more sites, so better chances of specials, and you may chose to cash in, or use the gems for something else.
Those in the middle area aren't that f*ck as one may think, as there are some impassable borders which make it more difficult for the outlying players to do attack everywhere at once.
For a 100-prov map I would strongly suggest "The Steel Ovens of Chandrea", a quick hack I did using the Chandrea Map. Check it out ... (attached)
Arralen
March 4th, 2005, 02:45 PM
rabelais said:
msew said:
MAPS:
Maps that I have found that are ok but not great are:
Pargonos2: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/arrs_parganos2.zip
This link fails for me, as did the one further up the thread.
I have attached the map to one of my postings on the first page of the thread..
rabelais
March 4th, 2005, 02:55 PM
None of the attachments work for me... Keep getting 404's.
Time to go reinstall mozilla I guess.
Anywhere else I can DL this?
Rabe the Not found
quantum_mechani
March 4th, 2005, 04:27 PM
msew said:
MAPS:
okie
aran is out. It is a lame map. The two pennisulas are pretty much "safe" havens for whom ever gets their Capital placed near them. If someone is a sea nation then there needs to be another sea nation for parity. It is out.
Sundering is out. Too small.
Maps that I have found that are ok but not great are:
Pargonos2: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/arrs_parganos2.zip
135 provinces, 19 sea provinces.
ISSUES: the people in the middle get fcuked. The people in the upper left hand corner get ufcked due to no money lands. All mountain up there.
Karan: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/karan.zip
162 provinces, 20 sea provinces.
ISSUES: we are playing that now. And it might be a bit too big for 6 people.
Valhalla: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/valhalla.zip
Number of provinces: 112. 23 or 24 sea provinces (from my count)
ISSUES: no real interesting terrain. everything basically connects to everything else. Water circles the entire thing.
Anyone have other map suggestions? It would be nice to let everyone have 15-18 provinces with no conflict. So ~100 province map or so
Out of these I vote Valhalla.
rabelais
March 4th, 2005, 05:11 PM
The Map generator is awesome, but you may not want to play on a map with monochomatic tendencies.
Enclosed is sample tga and params so you can play with it.
numofneighbors<=nostart is a lovely (and available) option.
Couldn't figure out how to put more than one file in the archive, but you can regenerate the .map file.
DomMap is available at Arryn's site http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Rabe
(P.S. actually it wont let me upload, even though the .exe extension (self-extracting) is nominally eligible. What gives?)
params below
DomMap -v -h 550 -w 750 -n Random -s 877876 -r 1.5 -wl 0 -tl 60 -ml 80 -pl 5 -rl 70 -d .08 -ns 0 -nl 80 -ps 15 -sa 30 -la 8 -ss 60 -ls 25 -sc 1000000 -tc 10000 -sm 2 -ln 2 -sn 5
Ironhawk
March 4th, 2005, 05:14 PM
I'm also unable to download this attachment.
Arralen said:
For a 100-prov map I would strongly suggest "The Steel Ovens of Chandrea", a quick hack I did using the Chandrea Map. Check it out ... (attached)
Ironhawk
March 4th, 2005, 05:17 PM
I would accept Valhalla just given the number of provinces. But there is so much water and the water is everywhere, geographically, such that things might get unbalanced if someone plays a water race.
quantum_mechani said:
Out of these I vote Valhalla.
Arralen
March 4th, 2005, 06:00 PM
Valhalla sucks:
You can't tell waste from grassland.
Fords are barely identifiable.
Essentially, the land is all strung up, there's no coast or inland.
I can't stand the colour for long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Random maps:
We needn't do it ourselves. Gandalf has a bunch of ramdom maps with 80 prov for download at
http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/thumbnails.html
Ironhawk
March 4th, 2005, 06:28 PM
Those are some pretty nice maps. I'm fine with using these random ones. My suggestions are:
Map S23 (http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/TodayMapS23.htm) : If we have no water nations (or two water nations). Placing the team capitals more or less vertically on the right and left sides will provide a VERY wide front in the middle, which is great!
Map S25 (http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/TodayMapS25.htm) : If we have one water nation. In that case we could place the capitals horizontally and also have a good front.
Arralen said:
Random maps:
We needn't do it ourselves. Gandalf has a bunch of ramdom
YellowCactus
March 4th, 2005, 07:08 PM
If your going for diplomacy and fairness I would recommend a map that wraps. Inland is nice.
-Yc
Ironhawk
March 4th, 2005, 09:22 PM
I'd like to play Vanhiem. Not sure what theme yet...
msew
March 4th, 2005, 10:13 PM
S23 is good
that is current leader righ tnow
msew
March 4th, 2005, 10:39 PM
can't DL any of the attachments
msew
March 5th, 2005, 08:06 AM
issues with s23:
terrain is pretty grouped.
farmlands in one area, forest in another, mountains in another
so s23 dropping in the ranks
s28 has the distribution of land types we wants but has really only point of connection between the land masses. So that choke point would be battle central. Which is semi lame as no real strategy involved.
msew
March 5th, 2005, 08:08 AM
s27 http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/TodayMapS27.htm
is looking pretty good.
the farmlands in the NW are little clumped but there are enough of them elsewhere to make it semi nice
s24 http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/TodayMapS24.htm
also looks nice.
a little less interesting terrain. but still decent distro of land types
both of these are top choices
Arralen
March 5th, 2005, 08:29 AM
I vote for S24.
I choose TienChi.
rabelais
March 5th, 2005, 12:50 PM
Well, we also had decided on TC, but we are willing to go arco if you want it too.
So we want van, ulm, and arco and you want jotun, tc and who?
Also I can make the perfect map is 20 seconds with the generator.
What is the problem with using a truly random no water map?
Do we want water, is that the problem?
Rabe
Arralen
March 5th, 2005, 02:40 PM
Ok, "which map" is still an issue.
I uploaded my 2 maps, so you can find them at
http://www.schulterdrachen.de/files/steelovensofchandrea.zip
http://www.schulterdrachen.de/files/arrs_parganos_v2.zip
Then msew and me agree we could use some of Gandalfs random maps with 85 prov.
http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/TodayMapS27.htm
http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion/Dominions2/RandomMaps/S/TodayMapS24.htm
Gandalf Parker
March 5th, 2005, 04:19 PM
you guys do know that S23 on the 4th is not S23 on the 5th. The maps change daily so linking directly to them is not a good idea. Snag the map and snag the image so you can post it here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Or let me know and I can rename it so it stays when the re-randomize scripts run
msew
March 5th, 2005, 08:12 PM
Okie We are using s24
http://www.msew.org/~msew/dom2/S24.zip
Please DL from this url so we are all using the same map.
Gandalf: You can run your scripts or what not. We have the map saved off.
GriffinOfBuerrig
March 6th, 2005, 06:15 AM
Hi,
i would like to pick jotunheim and can anyone tell me in which game i am?
Griffin
msew
March 6th, 2005, 09:10 AM
yes this game
SUNDAY 2005-03-06
11 am PST be in irc
irc.GameSurge.net
channel #dominions
GriffinOfBuerrig
March 6th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I meant in which team :p.
Just mail me the logs of the irc to dzbabi[att]web.de
So it would be fine if my team contacts me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
or give me a summary there, i have no time today.^^
Arralen
March 6th, 2005, 11:42 AM
START TIME
2005-03-06 11:00am Pacific Standard Time (PST)
Which works out to 2pm for east coast US and 8pm for Arralen (who is +1 GMT I believe?)
Overview
A team game will be starting once there are enough players.
The game will be teams vs teams.
Either 2v2 or 2v2v2 or 3v3 depending who wants to play.
Issues Still To Resolved
The following issues need to be resolved before this game may commence.
3) Port on game host machine
5) Which nations everyone is playing
House Rules
0) No Life Drain Weapons
1) No merc usage until turn 8
2) No bane venom charm
*others to be determined
Game Server
IP: benatar.snurgle.org
port: xxxx
Game Settings
Indys: 8
Research: Hard (difficult)
Site Freq: 70
Hall Of Fame: 15
Graphs: On
Victory: Standard
Map: s24 http://www.msew.org/~msew/dom2/S24.zip
Timing: 24H QuickHost
Mods (all of the latest and greatest at the time of the game start)
GameVersion: 2.15
Items: N/A
Nations: N/A
Sidhe War Godess not in the game due to heavy protests
PretenderGods: 2.0 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptp2.zip
Scales: 1.2 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptscale12.zip
Spells: 1.8 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/concepts18.zip
Banned Nations:
0) no pop-killing dominion. (e.g. Ermor, Pan CW ) Death-3 is fine rationale: ruins the war mechanics. Why attack them when there is no gain. Neat idea. Bad for the game unless everyone is playing that type of nation.
1) Caelum. Rationale: Overpowered. Why be anything else?
Player List With Associated Team And Nation
ironhawk (Vanheim?)
msew (Ulm?)
rabelais (Arco?)
VS
Arralen (T'ien Ch'i)
GriffinOfBuerrig (Jotunheim?)
quantum_mechanic (Man?)
rabelais
March 6th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Are we allowed to create a "Vanheim War Goddess" mod to optimize pretender cost for the Vans/Valks as you have for the sidhe ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Say 2F 1W 1E ? (we'll give up stealth, awe and glamour for the extra fire boost)
*duck*
Rabe the Troublemaker
dzbabi
March 6th, 2005, 02:33 PM
*trowing a old fish at rabelais*
msew
March 6th, 2005, 06:20 PM
okie truper has taken griffon's place.
the first post of the thread has updated info on teams and such
msew
March 6th, 2005, 08:43 PM
kk game is on 24h quick host
we are on turn 18.
we played til turn 9 and abysia had not taken heat 2 so his nation was pretty much worthless.
We restarted. Did 10 turns in 50 minutes. Good stuff there!
So far:
Massive battles bettween:
Vans and Man first blood to man. MASSIVE destruction by vans
Vans and Abysia Mega battle
Arco and Man Battle!
Vans are fighting two front war with Man and Abysia
Arco is fighting Man.
No intel on TC
Ulm was abaondoned by the Vans and left to fend for himself.
And that is how things stand at turn 18!!!
msew
March 6th, 2005, 09:51 PM
If you are the last one out you must double turn. So complete your turn. The turn generates you immediately do another turn.
msew
March 6th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Also:
Please save any interesting battles and such that you have.
Both arco and vans have saved off the major battles they have had so far.
It is nice to be able to go back and look at the world and other people's nations and combat set ups after the game is over.
So please save them off.
To save them off: Just copy the game folder: GameOfThrees_v2
and name it like: GameOfThrees_v2_turn_#_nation (e.g. GameOfThrees_v2_turn_15_ulm)
Ironhawk
March 7th, 2005, 08:42 PM
Wow! I thought this game was going to have more buildup, but instead its just been all-out warfare from turn 9-10 on. My apologies for not double-turning last night. I was just too spent to do another turn. Probably I will be last out when I get home from work and I will double-turn then.
As to Ulm crying about being "abaondoned by the Vans" all I have to say is: best laid plans of mice & men, etc, etc. Stop *****ing cause I am the only thing standing b/w Man/Abysia and you.
msew
March 8th, 2005, 06:58 AM
Ironhawk said:
Stop *****ing cause I am the only thing standing b/w Man/Abysia and you.
I retort: self preservation
if it were not for that my lands would have been burnt to the ground by the invaders!
msew
March 8th, 2005, 09:16 PM
okie seems team B is conceding.
At least that is what I got from the IRC conversation and that no one has done their turns. or what not.
So are we up for another team game?
Same rules?
The map this time will be 100-110 provinces. That will stop the cramped capital placement and will stop massive fighting from turn 9 onwards.
Conflicts over expansion provinces should occur around turn 15 or so.
With a bigger map that will occur. Further when that occurs and one side wins, they are not just a hop skip and a jump away from the opposition's capital.
In short: 80 provinces is too small for 6 people in a team game setting.
~msew
Arralen
March 9th, 2005, 03:03 AM
I'm interested playing on Parganos v2 (still), but only if teams aren't pre-made. I hate being pressed to use the kitten/feeder strategy.
Maybe my modified Chandrea Map (with or without the Steel Ovens) would be even better: It's wraparound and has lots of "ferry connections" between the islands, so hiding a week "feeder" nation behind a strong one will not work ...
Ironhawk
March 9th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Your end goal seems to be a team game without team-integrated nation designs, right? If that is the case then you should just request that as a house rule. Cause you can follow an integrated strategy even without knowing your teammates or map in advance, its just more risky to do so.
Make a house rule that is like... honestly I just dont even know how to phrase it. Cause it is such a grey area. If I play a nation and choose to take no earth magic whatsoever in the hopes that one of my allies will have it and be able to feed me earth items, is that a feeder strategy? What level of limitations are you wanting to place on team interaction?
quantum_mechani
March 9th, 2005, 06:12 PM
I think I would draw the line at regular gold shipments. Disaster relief or specific one time gifts are one thing, but regular gold transfer as part of a wider strategy should be outlawed (not sure on the wording myself).
Ironhawk
March 9th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Yeah, its *very* hard to phrase. Because I think its just a fact of life that allies will help each other. Be it with gold, gems, items, etc. That is the purpose of the alliance. I mean, if I was playing in a team game and one of my allies was in very intense combat I would certainly funnel them as much gold/gems/items as I could budget. Cause if they die then the chance of my team losing goes way up.
msew
March 10th, 2005, 04:23 AM
I think the high level goal that people want is for people to not make a team where there is really only one nation "fighting" and the other two nations are feeding that "fighter" nation.
So these are what people are saying:
a) no alchemist pretender
b) play on a wrapping map
c) no expressly making a nation that is hopeless without getting an influx of cash from others
d) no expressly making a nation that is hopeless without getting an influx of items from others
e) no expressly making a nation that is hopeless without getting massive protection from other nations (i.e. the Ulm BF that never made a single army unit and only did blood research)
Looking at the above points it really seams like: b is the only thing needed.
If you can't easily protect your "feeder" nations then they are going to get worked. In the first team game: EVERY round we were alchemizing most every gem we had to fund the vanheim war effort. We were able to do that because neither of the "feeder" nations were in danger of being attacked.
I was playing Ulm BF. My turns took maybe 1-2 minutes. I did: Alchemize for cash, buy a blood mage, set him to research, send cash to vans and/or arco now and again. Once I started getting my blood hunting up and running, I added: "move slaves to a lab" to that list.
As for the notion of utterly random teams and utterly random nations, making complimentary nation designs seems a pretty core aspect of the team game. So the purely random is flawed.
Just like in a "normal" dom2 game you see the list of players playing and you say: Oh okie there are 3 earth nations. I am not taking earth on my pretender because I should be able to trade for a hammer and other earth items.
Not taking earth on your pretender in a team game because you know your team mate has E3 already seems pretty much the same.
I think one of the CORE issues to discuss is: Should you be able to have one of your team mate be the item whore?
Ulm BF can NOT make items with any effeciency while TC is an item making machine. Why would I spend any research points in construction when I know my team mate is going to be spending?
I guess with all that said: I don't really understand where the desire to not have feeding nations exist comes from. What I think people REALLY want is: lack of untouchable feeding nations.
Who cares if Team A chooses to have a feeding nation. If that nation's only job is to feed and is militarily weak then ATTACK it and destroy it.
A wrappable map where there is no "one battle front" forces every nation to be able to defend themselves in some way. And removes the untouchable feeder nations.
Truper
March 10th, 2005, 04:38 PM
The desire to not have feeding nations comes from the idea that playing one isn't much fun. How much fun were you having buying a mage and sending gold to Vanheim? And yet there's no denying that it was an excellent strategy under the conditions.
I don't know if having a wrap-around map is a sufficient preventative measure, especially if it were larger than the one we were using. You tell me. If we used a wrap around map, would your team dare to use a similar strategy?
Ironhawk
March 10th, 2005, 05:31 PM
I'd agree with that assessment. I like too how it does not stop "feeding" which we have been having such trouble defining - because, as you, I feel that it is to a certain extent inherit in any team activity - but rather just makes it so that all nations need to stand on thier own due to the game settings, not a house rule.
Arralen
March 10th, 2005, 07:35 PM
Chandrea Map is only nominally bigger:
Lots of it's 100 provinces are small and rather worthless. Furthermore, there are lots of "ferry links" between the island, connecting just the most valuable provinces.
I have tested it in SP and found it very difficult to defend an area bigger than one of the small island due ti the wraparound effects of the North-West / Southeast streched-out "continent": Plenty few possiblities for a pure "feeder" nation to hide ..
Ironhawk
March 11th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Is 100 provinces enough? We just played on 80 and there was conflict from turn 9 on. If we move to 100 provinces that is only 4 more provinces per empire. By my guess that will only delay conflict by 2-3 more turns.
I guess the best question to ask would be: when do we want/expect war to break out?
Arralen
March 11th, 2005, 11:15 PM
14 land provinces per player should be enough. Obviously, if someone really wants tio go for another player early, there are few things to stop him. Maybe up the indies to 9.
msew
March 13th, 2005, 06:09 PM
Truper said:
The desire to not have feeding nations comes from the idea that playing one isn't much fun. How much fun were you having buying a mage and sending gold to Vanheim? And yet there's no denying that it was an excellent strategy under the conditions.
Probably as much fun as I would have if I was playing the vans.
It is a TEAM game. The TEAM winning is that matters.
My nation (Ulm BF) was SLOW starter and end game ungodly powerful (given the game settings).
I am more than willing to spend time setting up blood economy and letting my allies take out the indies and shelter me from attacks.
Also I guess people's definition of "feeder nation" is a bit flawed.
A feeder nation would be one who's ONLY job was to feed other nations and have no purpose in the game except that.
For our strategy it was:
Vans: does no research, just makes troops
Ulm BF: only does blood research and alcheminizes
Arco: item construction, site searching spells, global spells, remote attack spells
Vans: early strong, middle semi strong, end weak
Ulm BF: early weak, middle semi strong, end ungodly
Arco: early medium weak, middle semi strong, end strong
Truper said:
I don't know if having a wrap-around map is a sufficient preventative measure, especially if it were larger than the one we were using. You tell me. If we used a wrap around map, would your team dare to use a similar strategy?
Let's play again and you can see what strategy we will employ!
If the Ulm BF can be protected (either by his allies or by him not buying a blood mage every round), he is going to be a force to deal with.
Ironhawk
March 14th, 2005, 05:17 PM
I think that a wraparound map would be sufficient to deter people from picking nations which were too weak to stand on thier own in the early parts of the game.
Also, I was thinking that we should call this an Allied game instead of a Team game? I know it's just semantics, but I think it would do something to address the differing viewpoints. Like people seem to be looking to play a game where all nations are independent and so could stand on thier own, but choose to work together. As opposed to the three nations being a single entity.
Anyway, whats the status on this one? Do we want to shoot for next weekend?
Truper said:
I don't know if having a wrap-around map is a sufficient preventative measure, especially if it were larger than the one we were using. You tell me. If we used a wrap around map, would your team dare to use a similar strategy?
Arralen
March 15th, 2005, 02:45 AM
yeah
quantum_mechani
March 15th, 2005, 03:43 AM
Well, if Saber Cherry's mod game gets gong, I may not have time to play in another team game. From my point of view, having that game start as a blitz would be the ideal situation.
Ironhawk
March 15th, 2005, 03:56 PM
Yeah, I would put Saber's game as my first priority as well. His mod sounds really cool. Check it out at:
Saber Cherry's Unit Rebalance Mod (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=340596&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3&vc=1#Post340596)
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