PBEM Game: Yarnspinners 2 (Running)

[Alneyan]

The address of the site used for this game is: http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/

- Mods: Zen Pretenders, Scales and Spells mods.
- No outside judge giving awards; 5 astral pearls per yarn, more if most players find a particular yarn to be interested.
- Game ending on turn 60, unless most players would like to go on for a longer while (after turn 45).
- Beefed-up capital PD (125).
- Nation picks will be done on the "top three" (or more, though three nations should be enough) basis.

The other settings for the game:
- Map: Inland.
- Strength of independents: 7
- Magic research: Very hard
- Magic sites at 50, Hall of Fame with 15 entries, renaming is on.

People having expressed interest in joining the game:
- Quantum Mechani: Pythium
- PashaDawg: T'ien Ch'i
- Griffin: Ulm
- The Panther: Man
- Sedna: Marignon
- Djo: Vanheim
- Puffyn: C'tis
- Zen: Ermor
- Alneyan: Pangaea

[quantum_mechani]

Are you planning use Zen mods? I realize balance is not a big issue, but I would be more tempted to make thematic choices if the choices were more even.

[Alneyan]

Mods have not been mentioned in the thread, so I guess the answer for now will be "perhaps". I will add this question to the list.

[PashaDawg]

I'd be interested in playing.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Chopdaie, i am also in. I have been vanished in all other games :*)

So i declare to take Jotonheim(but i am fine with every nation)

@Pasha: ^^

[The Panther]

I am interested in playing under these new rules also. I will lay a claim to Man for this purpose.

My comments:
1. Zen balance mods - YES!
2. Saber-Cherry mods - maybe, for I am not sure if that is fully ready yet until the test game goes further.
3. Map suggestion: Orania. I would ask for impossible (or maybe just very difficult) AIs for all nations that are not present. Also, 9-strength indies to slow down the computer players.
4. PBEM with NO quickhost. The hosting schedule should be at a fixed time every 2 days. In fact, I would extend the host time every third turn to three days to allow for the yarns. This would mean a fixed weekly host schedule, always on the same three days of every week.
5. Put 200 PD (or whatever the max is) in every capitol (but not for the AI players) to make sure a nation is not easily eliminated until later in the game when PD no longer matters. The neutral player could send additional pearls and even gold if a player is dying but still writing yarns. People do cheer for the underdogs. But death can obviously still happen even with all this and might make a darn good story for the losing side!
6. I like the idea of an unassailable neutral nation with massive astral income to send rewards for yarns. It could be like a news network, staying neutral and observing the world. Giving it the Eyes of God (with 999 gems so it won't get overwritten) and posting the full map every third turn would be really cool indeed.
7. Very difficult research. This will allow for lengthy story lines as the mages labor away forever and ever, trying to produce something worthwhile which their God has demanded. I really hate those normal research games where the high-research nations can be done before turn 50.
8. Maybe we could require all players to use a strong fort to help with the capitol defense. Perhaps give us a choice of Castle (80 pts) or Fortress (60 pts) only, both of which are quite useful and have the added bonus of making mad-castling a lot harder.


Thats all I can think of right now. This sounds amazingly fun! I can't wait to get started!!!


Panther

[PashaDawg]

@Pasha: ^^



What does ^^ mean? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

I choose T'ien Chi (Spring & Autumn). Been grooving on them lately.

I am not particular about rules. Panther's suggestions are fine. A smaller map would be preferred. Wrapping is good.

[Sedna]

Count me in. I promise to cultivate a (somewhat) less bloodthirsty/world-dominating persona.

Zen's balance mods and difficult research are fine choices, and I think Panther's proposed hosting schedule (three fixed times a week) is excellent. Put the three day stretch over the work-week for those of us who have to deal with such things. I'm okay with restricting castle choices, but I hope people would choose the thematically appropriate options anyway (I still don't expect to see many mountain forts). Orania is a neat map, but it's so large and I'm not sure how I feel about AIs as they cannot write interesting stories. My gut instinct would be to go with a smaller map and try to have only humans.

The problem is not finding humans (they're everywhere), but finding truly dedicated ones. I hope everyone who is volunteering is prepared to be in this (and write) for the whole game. The original Yarnspinners will have taken about 8 months which is quite a commitment. Speaking of which, we should give this game an end condition also. If we're discouraging slaughter of active writers then we'll need some other way to crown a winner. 60 turns with points awarded for standing in the score charts worked pretty well, but clearly requires a small map so that interesting things will happen before the end.

[Alneyan]

A couple of remarks, additions, suggestions...

- I would rather not have AIs either; however, if a few more nations are needed, I think I could play two or three minor nations, without the mighty PD or free astral pearls. That would also solve the matter of the independent nation.

- I like Panther's suggestion about the *much* improved PDC. This PD would appear after turn 2 I think, as the Gnomes of Zurich will need one turn to do some Mass Wishing (say, two hundred Visa wishes, which would give 175 gems times 200... Ought to be good enough to build up some nice PD in all capitals).

- On the topic of victory conditions, and giving a second chance: with the strengthened PD, I think nations will be safer from the wrath of their neighbours, so a victory by "killing 'em all" should work. If it appears that the game is becoming annoying because of two nations hoarding and playing the Maginot line, I guess the game could be ended then.

- On selecting nations: are you fine with picking nations on a "first come, first serve" basis, or would you rather select your nations in a random order? For example, the Mighty Dice could rule that Sedna will pick his nation first, and then it could be Pasha, and so on.

- On rewarding yarns: I would say some sort of consensus could be considered here. All yarns where some effort has been made may be worth one astral pearl, but if your fellow players enjoyed one of your yarns, it could result in one or two more pearls. Of course, if one of you knows someone willing to act the part of the Judge, please let us know.

[quantum_mechani]

I am strongly against a large map, particularly with AIs. I think the yarns would be a lot more interesting if there is a writer from both sides of wars.

[djo]

I am interested in playing. I've been reading the original thread since I bought dom2 a couple months ago. Can't wait to hear the end of that one...

My thoughts for YS2:

- turns: I like the 3 turns, one yarn per week fixed schedule idea; I've done some writing, and doing about 500 words/yarn/week is doable (Sedna and puffyn have been writing in that word range, but every turn!)

- mods: small mods (eg, Zen pretender, balance) ok, big mods (eg, Cherry's recruitable unit) can be overwhelming for the inexperienced

- selection: I'm ok with random order, but perhaps give Sedna and puffyn (if interested) first choice due to their performance in YS1?

- victory: I like a fixed turn length, too

Alneyan's other suggestions are all fine by me.


A question: 2.15 or 2.16?


Another question: every good sequel needs a subtitle; YS2: The Long-winded? YS2: Writer's Vengeance? YS2: Mutant Offspring? YS2: Wrath of the Wordy?

[PashaDawg]

I am not especially excited about random selection of nations. I find that a polite "first come - first serve" almost always works fine. For example, I selected Tien Chi, but if someone else really, really wanted that nation, I would be happy to play another. And, of course, it would not break my heart if others preferred a more orderly selection process. We are all good sports.

[puffyn]

Count me in on Yarnspinners 2: How many would-be wordsmiths does it take to come up with a catchy name? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It looks like most people are agreed with the 3 turns / 1 yarn / 1 week schedule, which is fine by me. 's lotta work, writing 500 words of deathless prose every turn...

I don't like the idea of random nation selection; you should play a race that you'll be able to get in character for, since that's what'll keep you yarning. I say everyone should name their top choice, and if there's a conflict have a backup in mind. I would like to play C'tis.

Zen's mods are fine with me, but I'm not particularly in favor of other more extensive mods.

As for the map: it looks like about 10 people have expressed definite interest at this point (counting a few from the Yarnspinners Classic thread who haven't migrated here yet), which would be a good number. Not sure if it's enough for a map like Orania, though I agree that it looks nice. Perhaps if there were no water races... plus there will be the Land of the Giver of Pearls in there somewhere also. But early contact is key, I think, to maintaining enough dramatic tension.

And no AI's. They're just too easy to kill, and they wouldn't respect truces made for narrative reasons

[djo]

I think the "random" was meant to be "choose nations in random order", not "random assignment of nations".

Glad to see the lizards' literary voice will be heard. With them gone, I'll take Vanheim as my first choice. It's negotiable.



puffyn said:
And no AI's. They're just too easy to kill, and they wouldn't respect truces made for narrative reasons



I intend to explain all manner of stupidity and suboptimal behavior with the phrase "for narrative reasons".


I'm glad to see both puffyn and Sedna in YS2: Attack of Logorrhea.

[Alneyan]

Aye, it is definitively not random nations, but a random order for "who goes to pick the nation first". I would cast the dice to determine who can pick a nation first, then who comes second, who is third... and who is last (too bad). Some further "arrangements" could be done afterwards, if, say, the Ulm player would love to get your Marignon, and vice versa. It would work best if there were only twelve players or so though: otherwise, it may be a problem if you end up having to choose between two or three nations you absolutely hate.

The Wealthy Nation will only need one province, so it shouldn't affect much; their province will also be without any neighbour, so the only way to get there will be through teleport... and that would be a very bad idea, seeing how overkill their defences will be.

Welcome aboard Djo, and welcome on the forums! A word of advice though: you appear to have forgotten a few of the remaining players in Yarnspinners, namely Curious Cat and myself (though neither of us is still yarnning, we are alive and kicking in Yarnspinners. Well, not *that* alive mind you, as R'lyeh sure was nasty with me, but still). Of course, being the benevolent host I am, I will not hold a grudge towards you for having overlooked me. Of course not! *Writes down that incident, for future reference* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[djo]

Alneyan: no offense intended! My apologies. I was referring only to the impressive tales Sedna and puffyn have generated.

[Zen]

Hrm!

Zen would like to play, but please give him more details as to everything. I would hate to sign up and end up not yarning because of things. That is the real disappointment. Also I think there should be a period of time (maybe 2 weeks) before the game starts to formulate a plot, reasoning and such. The first turns are critical to forming a yarn and the desire to keep up the yarning, I believe.

Also, under the current structure. 3 Turns a week, 1 yarn a week. 60 Turn limit would last 20 Weeks, roughly 5 Months.

I would hope that everyone who signs up can say "For the next 5 months, regardless of 'stuff' I can attempt to write up something once a week"

[PashaDawg]

So when are going to get this one going?

[puffyn]

We're on turn 57 in Yarnspinners 1, and I'd like to be finished with that before starting up a new game. Around May 1st, perhaps? If we could settle on the races and players, this could give everyone a little while to come up with clever back story. We could have a Turn 0 to set the stage, then start up regularly at Turns 3, 6, etc.

[Alneyan]

None taken Djo, I was merely kidding around, as I am wont to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

About myself and my availability: I believe I will not sign up as a regular player, so I will only be hosting the game. I will be away for two weeks in late June/early July however.

About the game itself:
* What is definitive:
- A fixed schedule, with three turns a week.
- PBEM game.
- One yarn every three turns, and the full map on display every three turns.
- A website to display the yarns.
- An independent nation to get the map and send astral pearls, as a reward for yarnning.

* What is not so definitive (suggestions not having received much reaction):
- A much stronger PD for capitals, curtesy of the independent nation.
- Mods: Zen Pretenders is likely definitive, but what about the others? (Spells and Scales)
- Picking nations: should the order be "first come, first serve", or should the order of picks be random? Note that it does not mean random nations; it merely means a random order to pick nations.
- Ending the game: should it be a fixed turn, or when all players agree the game should be ended?
- Pearl awards: should the awards be agreed on by the players themselves, by a Judge (if one can be found), or be fixed? (One pearl per yarn say)

A start in two weeks seem to be fine, maybe a bit later if deciding on the settings take some time; Yarnspinners should be over by then.

[puffyn]

My votes on the non-definitives:

- Yes on Zen's pretenders, indifferent on others, no on non-Zen mods
- Stronger capital PD
- On race choice, perhaps we should all rank our top 3 preferences, and if there's a conflict we could try random orders. I think we should settle the races soon-ish so there's time to plot backstory.
- 60-turn ending, subject to player's reappraisal around say turn 45. I think knowing Yarnspinners was ending at turn 60 has helped motivate me to write a few turns (knowing I was almost done), but it may have led to a bit more casual violence genocide than otherwise. And it would be a pity to cut it off right in the middle of an interesting narrative bit.
- 1 pearl per yarn (where yarn is generously interpreted) plus an extra pearl if the majority of the players thinks it's a good yarn. A judge like magnate could award the extras too, if there were such a person.

Sorry to hear you won't be joining us Alneyan... perhaps you can chime in occasionally as the sarcastic know-it-all in the tower, doling out pearls to our pathetic little kingdoms. Just so long as you don't favor whoever's playing Man... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[puffyn]

For the record, my top three (in order) are: C'tis, Jotunheim, Marignon.

[Alneyan]

What was I thinking when I said I wouldn't join? I will likely join, though there would be a problem: the independent nation would have to be open for all in this case, as otherwise I would have an exclusive access to the Eyes of God enchantment . It would also help to check the use of those astral pearls, though it is less likely to be a problem: there are other ways to check for "astral pearls appearing mysteriously in my coffers by the hundred".

I like the idea of picking three nations: it is much faster than a random pick order, while being fairer than the first come first serve way. I think I can state my own preferred nations right now, as there doesn't seem to be any advantage in going first.

So, my top three are: Ulm - Iron Faith, Pangaea - Standard, and Caelum (I am not too sure of the theme here); no Man or Arcoscephale this time around.

[djo]

My votes:

- Zen mods: pretender-ok; balance-ok/don't care; spells-no; as far as I see, there's not a complete list of changes in the newest version of spells mod
- PD: no strong preference
- nation choices in order: Vanheim, C'tis, Machaka, Ermor (BE), Marignon
- end at 60; there's a pre-apocalyptic tension growing in YS1 that I like
- yarn judging, how to run the Overseer nation: whatever people like
- starting time: whenever comfortable for YS1 folks; May 1ish is fine

[Sedna]

My nation choice: Marignon (base, or possibly Fires of Faith), Ulm (base), Atlantis

I'd vote for all of Zen's mods, including spells. I would hope to use a version with an updated readme, but...
Don't care on PD much
Yarn judging: An outside judge is a bit of work and rather random. I think yarns which merit extra awards will be fairly rare, and can just be setteld by popular (majority) acclaim.

[PashaDawg]

My nation preferences: Tien Chi, Arco, C'tis.

Zen mods are fine.

No need for outside judge of yarns.

May 1 good starting date.

It is fine to have a definite ending date at turn 60.

Don't care about the PD, but I would certainly take a big one if given.

[Alneyan]

Well, let's count the ballots:

- Mods: Zen Pretenders definitively, Scales mod is in too, Spell mod will likely be in.
- No outside judge giving awards; 1 astral pearl per yarn, two if most players find the yarn to be interesting.
- The game shall start on May 1.
- Game ending on turn 60, unless most players would like to go on for a longer while (after turn 45).
- Beefed-up capital PD, along the lines of 100 PD.
- Nation picks will be done on the "top three" (or more, though three nations should be enough) basis.

The other settings for the game:
- Map: Orania has been suggested (275 provinces or so, wrap-around). Inland could be another possibility, but may be a bit too small (150 provinces, wrap-around).
- Independents: 6 should be the minimum; Panther suggested level-9 independents.
- Magic research: Panther suggested Very Hard research; in YS1, standard research seems to have resulted in a very speedy pace of research (Caelum must be very near the end of the research on turn 57, and Man had done most of it by turn 50, despite being a poor nation for research, and without any research boosting item).
- Magic sites at 50, Hall of Fame with 15 entries, renaming is on.

People having expressed interest in joining the game:
- Quantum Mechani:
- PashaDawg: T'ien Ch'i, Arcoscephale, C'tis
- Griffin: Ulm, Marignon, Jotunheim
- The Panther: Man, R'lyeh, Pangaea
- Sedna: Marignon, Ulm, Atlantis
- Djo: Vanheim, C'tis, Machaka, Ermor, Marignon
- Puffyn: C'tis, Jotunheim, Marignon
- Zen:
- Alneyan: Ulm, Pangaea, Caelum

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Sounds fine: My Nation preferences: Ulm, Marigion, Jotunheim

[The Panther]

My nation choices : 1. Man, 2. R'lyeh, 3. Pangaea


My comments:

1. I think 1 pearl per yarn does not seem enough of a reward for putting forth that much effort. Maybe something like 5-10 pearls per yarn might keep people really wanting to keep up with those yarns throughout the whole game. And the extra income from writing would be noticeable over those who are not writing. A just reward, in other words.

2. I would vote for graphs on, as this will help with the story lines and we will be seeing the whole map every third turn anyway.

3. Map - Inland might be an excellent choice with only 8 players (9 counting the neutral). But with 10 or 11, it will be too crowded for the game purpose and the bigger map would be much better. Orania plays quite a bit smaller than 275 because it is wrap-around. Also, with a 60 turn limit, we will not be reaching the late game tedium that always happen to the surviving players on large maps. Obviously, I cannot take R'lyeh on Inland but can with Orania. Same applies to Atlantis for those that choose that race.

4. Research - Normal research is just plain TOO EASY! The players ought to have to make tough research choices instead of just willy-nilly researching everything under the sun with no worries.

5. I will be out of the country June 17-June 28 and will have absolutely no access to the internet while gone. I could probably find a sub to play but not to write. I know Alneyan will also be on vacation around the same time.

6. Host and owner of neutral nation???????


Panther

[Alneyan]

Regarding the independent nation: if I play them along with another nation, the independents will be open to anyone, so it will be possible to check what happens with their hoard. It also means everybody will have access to the Eyes of God enchantment, which could be annoying depending on how much information the spell gives.

Even if the host wasn't playing in the game, I think I would still rather have the independent nation open to everyone, if I were simply a player. There can always be suspicions about how all those pearls are used, or simply mistakes.

And something I forgot: my turns will be kept on Gandalf's server (along with all the other turns), in case a thorough check is needed. Having the files on his server should ensure they haven't been altered, one way or another.

[Alneyan]

Who will play what nation:
- PashaDawg: T'ien Ch'i
- Griffin: Ulm
- The Panther: Man
- Sedna: Marignon
- Djo: Vanheim
- Puffyn: C'tis
- Alneyan: Pangaea
- Quantum Mechani: Pythium
- Zen (Sorry, I forgot to add you in my previous roster): ?

[Alneyan]

Does anyone have an opinion about the reward per yarn? I would say that five pearls per yarn is fairer than a single one; if most players find the yarn enjoyable, it could become ten pearls instead (five pearls every three turns isn't that high after all).

An alternative solution for the independent nation: they could be "closed" (only the host would see them), but the host wouldn't be elligible for pearl awards. I would say it is fair, and easier to manage than the other solution. There remains the risk of the host cheating ("one thousand shiny, lovely astral pearls for my own treasury... My precious..."), but that wouldn't be a very "efficient" way of cheating (meaning there are others ways to cheat, which would yield much better results).

[djo]

Regarding map size: YS1 also had ~9 players and used Cradle (220). It was suggested (by puffyn?) that a smaller map would help build dramatic tension via earlier player-player contacts. Orania is much bigger (280), and Inland is much smaller (150?). Are there any wrapping maps only a *bit* smaller than Cradle (I didn't see any)?

Rewards: 5 astral/yarn/3 turns is reasonable; it's like having another magic site ("Yarnspinner's Publick House").

Overseer nation: I vote for whatever's easiest. Lazy and trusting, I am.

Regarding website: this really cries out for a wiki. Does anyone have the ability to host one (I don't)?

Other website option: many people (me included) have web space through their ISPs. Players could host their own pages, and one player could host a central index of links (which is easy to maintain). I'm trying to think of ways to avoid dumping any onerous hosting/webmastering duties on anyone.

[Alneyan]

I don't think there is any wrap-around map bigger than Inland and smaller than Orania; with the current players, I believe Inland will be fine. If more players join in, Orania will likely be used. There is also the problem of water nations, which would be in dire straits on Inland: the biggest "sea" only includes four provinces. It may be interesting to play a water nation put in this situation though.

I don't know how Wiki are set up: what is needed for them to work? I believe my own web space should be able to handle it, but I am not too sure. The problem with all of us having our own webpages is organising all the yarns. It was planned to have two ways of sorting the yarns: depending on the nation and on the turn number. So, R'lyeh yarn for turn 36 would be both on "yarns for turn 36" and on "yarns for R'lyeh".

[djo]

For those who don't know: a wiki is a web app for collaboration; all users can edit the web pages, add links/images/etc. It uses a simple markup language similar to html or UBB codes.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

There are a zillion varieties of wiki, but in general you need to be able to install and run CGI scripts on a webserver. After that, you configure, generate a few starter pages, and (in theory) the users do the rest (adding pages and links). Disclaimer: I've read a lot about wikis and plan to use one at work in the future, but I've never set one up.

Advantages: once set up, everybody can pitch in on generating and organizing content; all content in one place

Disadvantages: someone needs to set it up & host it; users need to learn to use it (far easier than learning to play dom2...)

[puffyn]

I like the wiki idea, though I too have no practical experience running one. It would be especially useful for linking between the dramatis personae and the narrative ("Who the heck is this Pandokos character again?") It would probably be best if we semi-restricted editing capabilities, ie, only give out the password to people in the game?

I'll look into whether it would be feasible for me to host it and get back to you.

[djo]

I would be willing to help make a wiki work, although I can't host it myself.

If it's easy to do, we could restrict editing for most pages, but allow a page for spectators' comments. That could be amusing (if the comments are amusing) or disheartening (if there are no spectators!).

[The Panther]

My son has offered to host this game (PBEM, of course) without playing and play the observer role. In case you are worried about favoritism - don't! He will certainly not give me any special advantages over anyone else. He is also very trustworthy and would never even remotely think of allowing cheating of any kind.

I like the idea of a closed overseer myself, posting only the eyes of god every third turn. But I am a trusting sort...

[Alneyan]

Very well Panther; it is certainly fine with me - less work for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Map sizes:
Inland - 154
Cradle - 221
Orania - 279

Actually, Cradle could work because of all the choke points, for the starting spots in the middle are not as bad as they may appear at first. Still, corners are far superior, of course. Also, the 60 turn limit means the game won't drag out into the tedious phase typical of the larger maps like Cradle and Orania.

Wraparound is far superior for balance issues. Overall, Inland is perhaps the single bast Dominions map there is.

[quantum_mechani]

I would prefer inland, the other maps are to big.

My nation choices: Pythium, Atlantis, Ermor.

[Alneyan]

The updated roster:
- PashaDawg: T'ien Ch'i
- Griffin: Ulm
- The Panther: Man
- Sedna: Marignon
- Djo: Vanheim
- Puffyn: C'tis
- Alneyan: Pangaea
- Quantum Mechani: Pythium

[The Panther]

With 8 players (did Zen drop out?), Inland is perhaps the perfect size for this game with almost 19 land provs average per player. Also, I think we have a dedicated group of gamers here (admittedly, I do not know Djo, though) and we should not have the problem of people quitting like in the first Yarnspinners attempt. Though I will ask right now for a pause in late June, as I will be out of the country for 12 days. Even God himself had to rest on the seventh day!

As for the observer, Tauren can take R'lyeh or Atlantis with a fixed start in that single water province. I think he may need some help with creating his observer race to get the necessary astral income plus the Eyes of God as a national spell (and the pile of gems to cast it). I would not really know how to do all of that. Or even how to put the 140 province defence in every capitol. Or even how to do the simplest mod.......

By the way, how do you keep the observer race from dying to dominion later in the game?

The (ignorant) Panther

[Alneyan]

About Zen: he has expressed interest in joining the game, but didn't give any nation preference. So, he is still in the "top three nations" list (at the beginning of the thread), but not in the "who plays what nation" list (for the time being at least).

I will likely set up the independent nation, or give a full explanation on how to do it. Basically, they will have an unconnected province, so their Dominion won't spread (and vice versa). Even if the province was connected, Dominion kill would require active work from the players, and the independents would probably retaliate then.

Getting the gems will imply heavy use of the Wish spell, which will become a nation-only spell for part of the game (the first ten turns or so). Wish will then cost *no* gem and will only require Astral 1. If possible, the independent nation will start with thirty or so Astral mages, allowing them to cast no fewer than 30 visa wishes on turn 1, so they will have a lot of virtual astral gems.

Building up the PD will either be part of a mod (highly unlikely if memory serves), or will be done the hard way, with the independent nation giving gold for that purpose (and increasing PD themselves). PD 100 would cost 5000 gold, so that would be a nice number, avoiding any mistake like "how much gold can I actually use?". Again, the money will be gained via alchemy, probably by picking an Alchemist Pretender (with an increased alchemy value, if possible) and wishing for the Alchemist's Stone. That should give 50 gold per fire gem or so => 1250 gold per visa wish, and some more alchemy will be possible.

Unfortunately, I do not believe there is any actual modding command allowing to do the above, so workarounds seem to be necessary. That will mean some setup work for the independent nation in the first few turns, but it will no longer be necessary afterwards.

[Alneyan]

Well, the settings should be more or less final now:

- The game will start on May 1 or so.
- Map: Inland if 8 players are involved, perhaps Cradle or Orania if other players join in.
- Independents: 6 strength
- Magic research: Very hard research
- Magic sites at 50, Hall of Fame with 15 entries, renaming is on.
- Mods: Zen Pretenders and Scales, unless someone objects to that other one. The Spell Mod is out, as there is no documentation for the time being.

- No outside judge giving awards; 5 astral pearl per yarn, 10 if most players find the yarn to be interesting.
- Game ending on turn 60, unless most players would like to go on for a longer while (after turn 45).
- Beefed-up PD for all players, along the lines of 100 PD.
- Nation picking will be done on a "top three" basis.

[PashaDawg]

Hmmm. Orania would be interesting. Shall we check in with Zen to see if he still wants to play?

[The Panther]

Graphs on or off? I would vote for on, as it may help with the yarns.

And I was hoping to try out the spell mod sometime soon. Zen needs to get cracking on that one!!!

[quantum_mechani]

The Panther said:
And I was hoping to try out the spell mod sometime soon. Zen needs to get cracking on that one!!!

Hmm? Do you mean the item mod? The spell mod has been out for some time.

[The Panther]

Yeah, I did mean the item mod, in which I hope he nerfs clams and life drain.

I did play the spell mod a few times, and that one is very good. It really balances some of the worst excesses (like Flames from the Sky and Wrathful Skies) and makes many of the lower level summons (Cave & Ice Drakes, for example) actually worthwhile!

Panther

[Alneyan]

A notice about the fatherland file Tauren; you may already be aware of this, but I guess repeating something never hurts. The problem of this file is that you cannot entrust it to the players, but it is the most important file for a game: the fatherland file can recreate the .trn files, and allows the hosting of the game.

So, you should back up the fatherland files somewhere, in case of a hard drive crash or some such (granted, I am paranoid). A FTP somewhere or a floppy/CD-Rom would do the trick; alternatives include sending it to my own backup mail on Gandalf's server (but that may defeat part of the point in having an host not involved in the game), or perhaps even encrypting the file. Gandalf is also working on a small upload routine, so that may be another solution.

[Alneyan]

Attached to this post are the Inland modified map file and the Yarnspinners mod (for the independent nation). You should not even think of opening the map file, as it is plain awful, with my added commands carefully breaking the nicely organised map file from Illwinter. Still, if you insist on checking the file, you will see that it makes the following changes:
- The province 136 is where Atlantis shall start (the independent nation), and it has no neighbours on the map. Four victory points are given on this province, ensuring that the province is clearly indicated, so that nobody sends teleporting troops on that province by mistake.
- Atlantis starts with 45 Initiates of the Deep, all able to cast the Wish spell (Wish has become a level-1 Water Spell, available only to Atlantis; this will be removed after the first couple of turns).
- All provinces in the map start with 125 PD (the maximum). There was actually a command allowing to do that, but it requires setting it on all the provinces. The independent nation will not have to add that PD.

The independent nation should put all their Initiates casting a monthly wish for gems (visa or gems will work), and that should give them some 1400 astral pearls or so. Two or three turns with this schedule should be more than enough to have full coffers; once it is done, Tauren should let us know so that the mod can be updated (Wish will then become a regular spell again). 44 Initiates are probably a bit of overkill, but I had expected them to wish for money as well as for gems, before I found that command to increase PD everywhere.

[PashaDawg]

Should all players download your updated map file?

That sort of technical stuff is not my forte. So, please feel free to dumb it down for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Alneyan]

Only the host needs the .map file when creating a game; all you need is the .tga file, and since Inland comes from the game, you already have that.

I have attached the archive of all three mods to this post: download the zip file, and extract the three mods in your /mods repertory. You should enable Zen Pretenders Mod 2.01 before creating your Pretender; the other mods shouldn't be needed for creating a Pretender, but feel free to enable them regardless, as it cannot hurt. Once the game is started, the game will handle mods on its own.

[PashaDawg]

Merci, mon ami.

[quantum_mechani]

Alneyan said:

- Atlantis starts with 45 Initiates of the Deep, all able to cast the Wish spell (Wish has become a level-1 Water Spell, available only to Atlantis; this will be removed after the first couple of turns).


Keep in mind Zen's spell mod removes wish (I am working on a complete readme).

[Alneyan]

De rien Pasha. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Perhaps we will use the Spell mod if a readme is out before the game starts (the lack of any documentation was the main argument against the Spell mod).

If it is the case, Zen's mod will be slightly altered I guess, unless the YS-wish mod takes precedence. Hmm, let me check what happens if those two mods are enabled. Zen's mod beats YS mod, so the Spells mod will have to be altered, at least for a few turns.

[The_Tauren13]

So, am I still supposed to be hosting this?
If so, send your Gods and the modified map file to:
The_Tauren[AT]Comcast[DOT]net

[puffyn]

The revolution will be wiki'ed...

I've been playing around with MediaWiki (same one as Wikipedia uses), with some help from Sedna, and I have a website that will be able to host it eventually. Currently you have to go to a temporary URL, which will only work as long as my router behaves:

Test wiki (http://24.61.15.145/~jfoster/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page)

There are some sample pages up using turns from Yarnspinners 1, showing how various race and turn pages could look. Input, as always, is greatly appreciated. There's even a little discussion tab at the top for our adoring fans to leave us love mail.

[Alneyan]

I have just sent you a mail about hosting Tauren.

The Wiki is lovely Puffyn, though I must admit I do not like the sample map for turn 1: it looks too much like the squids' invasion scheme. Nasty critters.

Otherwise, there appears to be a problem with some links, but that's only because the Wiki is on a temporary site (going from "per nation" to "per turn" doesn't work without switching "alea.local" with the IP).

[puffyn]

Oops, sorry about the bum links. I hope to have the real site up tonight, maybe tomorrow, so it should be working properly soon...

[PashaDawg]

Wow! Our own Wikki!!! Now, I can brag to all my friends!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

This is going to be epic!

[djo]

puffyn said:
The revolution will be wiki'ed...




This is extremely cool...thanks for getting it set up so quickly! Do let us know when it is ready for us to start our editing.


As one of the people who questioned the spell mod, and,I believe, the least experienced player here, let me say that I am fine with the spell mod as-is, if everyone else wants it. I know how to read a mod file, it's just a pain.

As an aside, 'djo' are initials and need not be capitalized.

Now I need to go think up more character names...

[Sedna]

The Yarnspinners2 wiki is now at it's official site:

yarnspinners.improbable.org

We're still looking for a name, and a nicer logo, but please start playing around with it and post requests, problems, or questions.

There may still be some peculiarities with the caching (we're working on it). If your edits don't show up on the main pages, try clicking on the "Refresh Page" link at the top. Also, image uploads probably don't work yet, although we'll have that working soon.

The structure will probably be that the official TurnX pages are editable only by admins (puffyn and I). These pages are just shells which include the text from individual yarns, which are currently editable by everyone (no log-in required). People should respect the sanctity of each other's yarns and not modify them. Yarns can link to other subpages, describing characters, etc. I think we will allow these to be edited by anyone also. Thus, if you wish to make a page about a character in your empire, don't be surprised if someone else edits that page to include less flattering things about him or her. Similarly for a dispute province (imagine if India and Pakistan could both edit an article about the Kashmir). The version-tracking in the wiki software will allow you to recover old versions if you wish.

The individual yarns will likewise be conglomerated into individual race pages, where the respective owners may wish to add other flavor, descriptions, or whatnot.

As a concrete example- editing the file MarignonTurn0 will cause the same new text to appear on both Marignon and Turn0 (it may be necessary to refresh page to see the changes).

Okay- have fun.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Thank you, that page is cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alneyan]

The Spells mod now has a readme file (direct link is here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/350432-conceptual_spells_readme_v1_80.txt) ), thanks to Quantum Mechani. So unless someone strongly objects, the Spells mod will be used.

[Zen]

Alright.

If you still have room for one more I'll take whatever nation is left.

I was making sure my life would allow me enough time to play and do yarns and it was trying it's damnedst to not allow it. But it's now been wrangled into obediance.

Rarg!

[Alneyan]

Welcome aboard Zen! Claimed nations are as follow (feel free to pick any that is not currently played):

- PashaDawg: T'ien Ch'i
- Griffin: Ulm
- The Panther: Man
- Sedna: Marignon
- Djo: Vanheim
- Puffyn: C'tis
- Alneyan: Pangaea
- Quantum Mechani: Pythium

We are likely to play on Inland though, so you may wish to avoid picking an aquatic nation. 9 players on Inland should still be fine; a shame there isn't any wraparound map between Inland and Orania in size.

[DrPraetorious]

I can't follow what this game is supposed to be but I'd like to be on as Machaka.

[Alneyan]

Oops, looks like I removed the description of the game by mistake. Yarnspinners is a game whose main purpose is to allow for the writing of stories (or yarns, as they are called). If you would like to see an example, please check the first Yarnspinners thread, especially the later posts on this thread.

[Zen]

I'll take Ermor then.

[Sedna]

Welcome aboard Zen. The inquisition was getting nervous that we wouldn't have many undead to smite. This is an unexpected surprise.

And you too DrPraetorious, when you figure out what the game is about and decide to join (or not).

So far only puffyn, djo and I have added anything to the wiki. I encourage more people to play around with it: yarnspinners.improbable.org (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org). Really, you can't break anything... much.

As far as the ultimate fate of this thread- what will become of it? Would people be okay posting their threads both here and in the wiki? We should keep some presence here so that new visitors have a chance to discover the game- at the least, I can post a plain text version of everyone's yarns here every three turns.

Oh- I don't think I ever responded in support of 5 pearls per yarn. I agree that such a reward is more commensurate with the effort of yarning. I assume there will be no hard and fast deadline for yarns, although obviously some effort should be made to keep the narrative concurrent with the game. But a "late" yarn garners the same reward, encouraging people to make up missed ones.

[djo]

Sedna said:
So far only puffyn, djo and I have added anything to the wiki. I encourage more people to play around with it:



I second & third this. I had to restrain myself from playing around with it too much at work today.

It's easy to get started. Click "edit" on one of your pages and go to town!

-- basic editing summary is at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing
-- each page has a discussion page attached, if you just want to add a comment (like a bboard/forum); click "discussion", then "+" at the top
-- toolbar does basic formatting for you
-- easy to rollback changes if you mess up
-- interested in how something is done? click "edit" on whatever page and see, then "cancel" without changing anything; it's like "view source" in html
-- (optional) register and login and you can automatically sign your posts


Try it, you'll like it.

Or, pour encourager les autres, maybe Sedna or puffyn could put in a "sandbox" page, like other wikis have, for letting people play with the editing in a place where it doesn't matter?

[Sedna]

Or, pour encourager les autres, maybe Sedna or puffyn could put in a "sandbox" page, like other wikis have, for letting people play with the editing in a place where it doesn't matter?



Pas de problem. Ya'll can play in the new sandbox to your heart's content.
Sandbox (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/index.php?title=Sandbox)

[djo]

Sedna said:
The inquisition was getting nervous that we wouldn't have many undead to smite. This is an unexpected surprise.




There are more of us than you might think...

But I would like to extend a (living) hand of friendship to the inquisition. Sunny Vanheim welcomes everyone! We have humans; tall, beautiful magical beings; and the dead--something for everyone! Spend your tourist gold in Vanheim; better restaurants than Ulm, lower prices than Pythium!

This message was brought to you by the Vanheim small businessman's association.

[djo]

Sedna said:As far as the ultimate fate of this thread- what will become of it? Would people be okay posting their threads both here and in the wiki? We should keep some presence here so that new visitors have a chance to discover the game- at the least, I can post a plain text version of everyone's yarns here every three turns.



I am vaguely planning to post turns in both places. The DVD extras, so to speak, I will only put on the wiki.

Perhaps important game announcements could go here and on the wiki front page?

If there are wiki-phobic folks out there, I or someone else could easily copy turn posts from this thread to the wiki.

[PashaDawg]

Is that your dog, djo? Wicked cute, cute, cute!

You're in New England? Which state?

[djo]

PashaDawg said:
Is that your dog, djo? Wicked cute, cute, cute!



Dusty belongs to my parents, but as I'm an appartment dweller who can't have pets, I think of him as mine, too. Dusty is a Brittany who enjoys long walks outdoors and hunting pheasants. His other hobbies include eating and sleeping.

I currently live and work near Boston. Originally, I'm from western Mass. (5 Colleges area--the "Happy Valley").

[The Panther]

All right, I think I might be getting the hang of this. I did manage to post my Turn 0 yarn, prelude to the glorious battle before us...

Now all I have to do is actually go make Selena, Great Enchantress, into a real Pretender.

[Alneyan]

User is blocked:

Your user name or IP address has been blocked by SORBS DNSBL.
The reason given is this:
Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the SORBS (http://www.sorbs.net) DNSBL.

You may contact SORBS DNSBL or one of the other administrators to discuss the block. Note that you may not use the "email this user" feature unless you have a valid email address registered in your user preferences. Your IP address is 84.4.221.150. Please include this address in any queries you make.

Return to Main Page.



The message I got today, when I tried to edit the main page (or any page for this matter). It happens whether I am logged in or not. I hope it is only a temporary glitch, due to my ISP giving me a particular IP for now.

I cast my ballot for Djo's suggestion, "The raveling".

[Alneyan]

Never mind, it all seems to be working fine again. I guess that was just another prank; my computer seems to love jokes, such as "preventing user from going to most sites" or "making user think computer single-handedly prevented a crash from happening, a crash so severe it would have destroyed the world, had it not been stopped".

[PashaDawg]

I have not forgotten about the game. I will use Sunday morning to get my act together!!

[PashaDawg]

Help Me! /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

I have been playing with the Wiki, but I can't seem to get my Turn 0 to post properly. It seems like edits don't happen, and when you go to T'ien Ch'i, the turn does not display (but it shows up if you look at all of my "exciting posts."

What am I doing wrong?

[puffyn]

Hey PawshaDawg,

Hit the "Refresh" button at the top of the wiki. (Or copy one over from another page, like the main page, if it somehow got erased.) If you are a registered user, you can also turn off caching in your preferences, so each page will be forced to reload when new changes are made.

[djo]

PashaDawg said:I have been playing with the Wiki, but I can't seem to get my Turn 0 to post properly. It seems like edits don't happen, and when you go to T'ien Ch'i, the turn does not display (but it shows up if you look at all of my "exciting posts."



I had something like this happen to me yesterday. I edited VanheimTurn0, it showed up quickly in the "master" Turn0, but didn't show up in Vanheim until later (10 minutes?), no matter how I refreshed or cleared my caches. I suggest, be patient. If you see nothing after, say, 20 minutes, maybe we should worry.

Right now (10:40 am EDT), I see what you describe: prose on master Turn0, but not on master Tien Chi page.

My suspicion is that it has something to do with how the server picks up pages that it "includes" in other pages. The nation Turn0 pages are "included" in the master Turn0 via a wiki command (eg, "{{VanheimTurn0}}").

[puffyn]

Yeah, djo was right, your include got erased somehow. I put one back in, and voila: turny goodness.

[djo]

Aha, I didn't click edit to check. Stupid (or more likely, lazy) me...

For those who haven't wiki'd yet: when you edit your nation page, the lines that do the magic are these:


== Turn0 == <----- creates the heading
{{:VanheimTurn0}} <----- includes your turn 0 page

[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:VanheimTurn0|ac tion=edit}} Edit this yarn]
[[Turn0|See all of Vanheim's exciting posts]] <----- adds edit/view links


...although on looking at the link, and those on a few other nation pages, it looks like they don't quite do what I thought they'd do. "See all of xx's posts" ought to point to the nation page, n'est-ce pas? Probably ought to be:

[[Vanheim|See all of Vanheim's exciting posts]]

Was that the intent? If so, I can fix mine, and a few others...that's the beauty of wiki; easy for everyone to pitch in and clean things up.

[puffyn]

Ooops... the text is wrong. On the race pages, I meant it to say, "See all yarns for Turn0", etc, so you can easily get back to the turn pages, where the link says "See all of race's yarns".

But yes, that is the joy of wiki: I don't have to fix all of my own mistakes if other people are happy to do it for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[djo]

To be complete, the other thing you'll see on your nation page is "__NOEDITSECTION__", which means, no edit links for each section. Notice how the main page *does* have those links.

The table of contents comes along magically if you have enough sections.

[PashaDawg]

Hmmmm... I am still not sure what to do. The text got updated. However, it does not show up unless I "refresh" the page. What's up with that? Is it me?

[PashaDawg]

Nevermind. I changed to preferences so that it would stop cache-ing. Whew! Thanks for your help!!!

[djo]

PashaDawg, it looks ok from here. An occasional "refresh" as you're editing is not usual. It forces the server to give you the newly edited version of the page. Does that match what you're seeing?

[PashaDawg]

I am all set. Thanks.

If you call your parents today, be sure to tell them to give Dusty a good ear-scratch for me!

[The_Tauren13]

I have recieved Pretenders for T'ien Ch'i, Vanheim, and Pangaea.

[PashaDawg]

So... when is the game starting? I have all this wool piled up in my living room and kitchen.

[quantum_mechani]

I can't figure out what is wrong. I edit Pythium turn0, save page and it takes me to a nice page with all the test laid out. However, when I click Pythium, or Turn0, none of the text shows up under the Pythium turn0 entry. When I try to edit it again, the text is already in the edit box.

[Jurri]

I'd surmise it's the selfsame refresh-requirement as with Pasha... At least I see a bunch of text 'bout some dude named Cibragol down there!

EDIT: I wonder if I'll be smitten down for calling him 'some dude'... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:
I'd surmise it's the selfsame refresh-requirement as with Pasha...

Yup, that was it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sedna]

Another thing to try with the refresh problem is making your local browser force reload the page. That worked when I was having problems last night.

I second PashaDawg's question? Can we start yet? The_Tauren, who has yet to submit a pretender?

[The_Tauren13]

Ive got C'tis, Marignon, Pangaea, T'ien Ch'i, and Vanheim.
And, um, do we have a list of who all is playing, and what nations theyre playing, and what the settings of the game will be?

[The_Tauren13]

ok, found the list of players... so
C'tis - Puffyn - recieved
Ermor - Zen - waiting
Man - The Panther - waiting
Marignon - Sedna - recieved
Pangaea - Alneyan - recieved
Pythium - Quantum Mechani - waiting
T'ien Ch'i - PashaDawg - recieved
Ulm - Griffin - waiting
Vanheim - Djo - recieved


Again, send pretender files (from the newlords directory) to The_Tauren[AT]Comcast[DOT]net

[Alneyan]

I haven't heard from Quantum Mechani for at least a few days. Anyone has news from him? I will drop Griffin a mail about sending in his Pretender; you can probably get Panther's Pretender without my meddling.

The settings are on the first post of the thread, as usual. The map is wrong though (it should be Inland as main choice), and two entries have two different settings: in those cases, go with Panther's suggestions, as the balance leaned that way. I will edit the settings to reflect that though.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Möööööööööp!

<- A Honk!

Sorry for the delay, i sent my pretender a few minutes ago!

[djo]

Actually, no one except Panther really said anything about independents strength.

I'm ok with whatever is decided, but I'd like something a little softer, maybe independents at 7.3 or so.

(OK, newbie question: v. diff research, indies=9, non-combat pretender, not playing Ulm or other nation with heavy inf starting army: appoximately on what turn would you expect to start expanding?)

(edited for clarity)

[Alneyan]

That would depend on your luck, and your Pretender. I usually pick a Pretender able to take provinces without breaking a sweat, thanks to a couple of spells (Invulnerability, Mistform, Mirror Image, Body Ethereal, Personal Luck, Quickness, Breath of Winter, Soul Vortex and Fire Shield among others. Oh, and Air Shield too. A Virtue with Invulnerability, Mistform, Body Ethereal, Quickness and Luck/Mirror Image works quite well, among other things.

Otherwise, Centaur Warriors for Pangaea should do the trick, perhaps massed longbowmen for Man, maybe the Elephant/high morale troops combination for Arcoscephale and Caelum, or even assassins... I am not too sure of the specifics though, as my troops usually do poorly against the independents. The only time I did manage to slaughter independents was with Arcoscephale and a Fire-9 blessing: the Pretender, a priestess and ten Heart Companions had the firepower to take down knight provinces while only taking a few losses, and Fire-9 is cheap. Problem is, that sort of setup won't be much of a help later on in the game, as I found out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Well, I am king of stalling right now. I am working hard on Selena, my Great Enchantress Pretender, and I have pretty much decided what she ought to look like. Except for 2-3 scales which I have not fully resolved as yet.

I will be out of town from Friday-Tuesday this weekend and am not sure how much time I will have to devote to Dominions while on my vacation. So if we do wait for all players to chime in and post their Turn 0 yarns, I will not be complaining at all.

Furthermore, I think that if the missing players do not post Turn 0 yarns, then I think they may not be all that dedicated to writing the later yarns either. At my last check, there were still three missing Turn 0 yarns.

Just my opinion, whatever that is worth.

One thing of note, I plan of putting things in my yarns that will sort of reveal what I am doing (like my pretender choice for instance). I will also be doing thematic things instead of maybe what is best for winning the game. But this game is not so much about winning as it is about writing, in my opinion.

Oh, and both those lizards and the Inquisitors scare me already! What happened to the Age of Man???


Panther

[Alneyan]

My own yarn 0 has been delayed due to final exams, if anyone is wondering. Final exams aren't half as bad here as they are somewhere else, but they still make me busy. The worst is over now though, so I should be able to finish my yarn in the next couple of days; writing some more serious English after having done English papers is much harder than writing some serious English to get away from mind-boggling Spanish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Let's see, about that djo question on taking independants.

When I last played Vanheim, I got a fire 9 bless. I then got a prophet capable of casting divine blessing (must be a level 4 priest) and built as many vans as I could afford each turn. I took my first level 9 independant on Turn 4 doing this (I did choose the weakest looking neighbor), using the starting light infantry as targets and the vans on the edge to do the killing. By the time I lost much of my starting infantry several provinces later, I had enough fire-9 vans to take pretty much anything, usually losing either 0 or 1 van per province. Also, when I later got Alt 3 plus Evo 1, my phoenix could go solo against most level 9 indies.

The van is the single best national troop in the game for the price, imho. You should not build much of anything else, unless you want some valkries for wait and attack rear. However, if you do not take a high-power bless, then the choice of the van is not as clear.

Later, when you run into human enemies, you will need meat shields to support your vans. Summons work best for this.


Panther

[djo]

Multiple things to say...

Re: start date: I'm patient--if people want to wait a bit to start, fine by me; I think it's more important to be steady once we've started.


The Panther said:
One thing of note, I plan of putting things in my yarns that will sort of reveal what I am doing (like my pretender choice for instance). I will also be doing thematic things instead of maybe what is best for winning the game. But this game is not so much about winning as it is about writing, in my opinion.




I second that...and I don't intend to use anyone's info against them, not in a big way, anyway. If one's writing goes well, one may find one's characters refusing to do what you want in any case.


And thanks, Panther, for the advice; that's just about exactly what I was seeing in my test games. The 9 indies look scary after getting used to 6's in SP. And I feel bad about all those poor huskarls dying, too.

I had a blast doing F9 as Marignon in SP--flaming flocks of flagellents!

[Zen]

I just resent my pretender. Apparently it wasn't sent when I originally thought.

Also about the game being about winning and/or fun. My particular choice of nation with the game settings should seal the deal with I'm in it for the fun and not the winning. Ermor on very difficult research is about as much of a handicap as I can get. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My pretender chassis was chosen because of story and I kept the pretender with the best titles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

My story will be a little slow in the beginning. As much of my backstory and coming about of the nation of Ermor has quite a bit of entwining with other nations. But don't worry I will be writing out my yarns as quick as humanly possible.

[Sedna]

It seems like we have a pretty committed bunch here. I can certainly understand how some people might want to see their position in the world before writing too much story. I, for instance, need the names of my neighboring provinces. I would suggest we get this started as soon as everyone submits pretenders, instead of waiting for all turn zeros. We can always be a little lenient with extensions for people who need them.

I'd vote for indys at 7 rather than 9. I want my story to be event-driven, and that's harder to do if events just happen slowly.

[The_Tauren13]

Ok, Ive got all the pretender files, so we can start as soon as the settings have been decided.

[Sedna]

Yay. I think the only dispute is about independent strength. Anyone else have an opinion?

[The Panther]

Indy 7 sounds good to me, just to be different from the usual 6 or 9.

[quantum_mechani]

Ok with me.

[djo]

As I said previously, 7 independents is fine with me.

I also vote for graphs on, which was mentioned (I think only once) upthread.

[PashaDawg]

Independents 7 is fine.

It would be interesting to have graphs on. I vote yea for that, too.

[The_Tauren13]

OK:
Dominions 2.16
indy 7
sites 50
graphs on
HoF 15
research very difficult
renaming allowed

Mods:
Pretender Gods 2.0
Spells 1.8
Scales 1.2
Yarnspinners.dm

The first turn has been sent.
Now, what hosting schedule do you want to run on? 72 hours?

[puffyn]

Yay, the turns are starting...

One question: I made my pretender with mod version 2.01, since I thought that was the one we are using. Will there be a problem with the game if we proceed using 2.0? Did anyone else make their pretender using the other mod?

[djo]

I used 2.01, too.

Turn frequency: we're aiming for 3/week, but we didn't discuss the details. I figure 2-2-3 days, with the 3 across the weekend? Maybe turns due on (for ex.) Tues-Thurs-Sun, or something like that (subject to what Tauren finds convenient)?

Someone more knowledgeable than I should change the thread title from "open" to "running".

[PashaDawg]

Gosh - - - I just used the latest mod, too... I think. So many mods!! Eeek.

[quantum_mechani]

Zen said:
My pretender chassis was chosen because of story and I kept the pretender with the best titles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.


And it was well worth it, those are some awesome titles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alneyan]

2.0 and 2.01 are the same to the best of my knowledge, except that 2.01 has a tidier layout; that would be logical too, as a major change would have resulted in a 2.1 version.

The topic of the thread has been changed; only the creator of the thread can do so (and mods, of course), so you could not have done so yourself Djo.

Alneyan the delayed (away today, and exams on the next two days).

[The_Tauren13]

Well, the latest version of the pretenders on Zens site is 2.0, so I just grabbed that one. Since nobody had an invalid pretender, we should be able to play anyway...

For the hosting schedule: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday would be easy for me. But then, if you want to write the yarns over the weekend, I wont host this first turn intil next Wednesday, so that the 3rd turn hosts on Monday.

[PashaDawg]

Ugh! I need Yarnspinners.dm. Where do I find that? Also, once I find it, what do I do with it?

[PashaDawg]

Nevermind. I found it.

[Zen]

Edit: Zen is a moron. Please don't feed the monkeys.

[Alneyan]

It was attached in the Wiki before, but I cannot find it either. It has been attached somewhere in the thread too: direct link is here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=347377&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=all&vc=1) .

On another note, I am out of the woods this Monday in the morning; after that, I am done with school until October (unless I flunk one of my exams badly). I should be able to get back into spinning by then, or possibly either, if I am not too committed to English phonetics.

[Jurri]

How does one flunk an exam in a not-bad way? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Just kidding, good luck, you're gonna ace it for sure! /threads/images/Graemlins/PointUp.gif

[PashaDawg]

Jurri said:
How does one flunk an exam in a not-bad way? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Just kidding, good luck, you're gonna ace it for sure! /threads/images/Graemlins/PointUp.gif



I second that!!

[Sedna]

Ah, if only there were exams on how to build a super combatant, or essays on the fall of Ermor.

[Alneyan]

I think my exams went well; not a good feeling in my case, but I guess it's too late to worry now. In Alneyanese, flunking not poorly would be getting a grade good enough to pass, but not amazing either (the equivalent of a C, I think)... not technically flunking, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

At long last, my turn 0 yarn has been published. I hope my future yarns will go a bit quicker. There is a catch however: I cannot seem to put my yarn on my Pangaea page. But I should figure out how it is supposed to work. I hope. Looks like it was only the dreaded "you are browsing your cache" error, and everything seems to be working fine.

[Jurri]

Ah, the typical over-achiever! That's what you get for never actually failing a class...

Why dontcha put a link to the wiki in the first post? Just for convenience's sake.

[Alneyan]

Well, I actually have an incentive for doing well in exams this time, so it should solve the opposition between "not good enough" and "as if I cared". That, and I really have no excuse if I don't do well in English.

Putting a link in the first post would be too easy Jurri. We are supposed to be in a bureaucracy, and people should have to work to get something. Nay, I will add a link in the first post: though I didn't come up with this idea, it is a good one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Can you say "inflated ego"?

[Jurri]

What incentive is that? Someone paying you cash or something? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Speaking of the first post, wouldn't it make sense to replace the hypotheticals with definites? For posterity's sake... And if we are in a bureaucracy I want to be the stamp-guy! You know, the one who does nothing but stamps his approval on everything and is always away eating lunch.

[Alneyan]

Well, the incentive is a bit complicated: let's just say it involves having an easier time getting abroad. I don't have anything against cash though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It wouldn't make sense to make the first post any clearer. Done; I had planned on tidying the first post all along, but I pushed that to tomorrow, and then to the following day, and... You know how it is.

You cannot be the stamp guy, unless you have the proper credits. *Winks*

[The Panther]

Well, this is very bad. I have never seen a starting spot quite like I have this game.

1. There is an enemy at 6:00 with one square between our capitols.
2. There is another enemy at 10:00 again with one square between our capitols.
3. And, if that is not enough, there is a third enemy at 2:00 with just 2 squares between our capitols.

So, I have exactly 2 neighboring provinces I can take before I must declare war on somebody just to expand into independents. Certainly, Inland with 9 players has enough room so the capitols ought to have a wee bit of breathing room.

I think something is wrong with Version 2.16. I have noticed similar horrid starting locations before under this version. It is almost like they no longer take into account how far away the people start like it used to do.

Needless to say, this game is completely unplayable for me.

[Alneyan]

I have one enemy at 12:00, so I guess it is you Panther. I *hope* it is you, anyway.

You will not only have to declare war one of your neighbours, but pray you can actually defeat two or three of your neighbours at once: you are a mutual threat, after all, and the wisest course of action for your neighbours would be to take you down (pretty much like your own course of action is to take any of us down fast).

You have my vote for a restart. And good luck to Tauren if he tries to put fixed starting locations on the map; warp-around maps are much harder to handle (or it is just me, and my inability of seeing such maps as actually round).

[djo]

I have one capitol-adjacent black candle on turn 2, so I may be part of that clump.

I'll know more next turn.

[PashaDawg]

Panther's starting position is unacceptable. We want everyone to get a good starting spot and have FUN!! We should start over. Is there a way to give everyone defined starting spots?

[Alneyan]

It can easily be done with a couple of commands Pasha. Are you volunteering to choose nine balanced starting spots? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Though I guess starting positions do not have to be equal, so long as they are fairly well spread.

[PashaDawg]

I have no problem with the task of choosing (assuming no one objects to a player having such knowledge), but I would not know how to program it.

[puffyn]

I have yet to receive my turn 2, but my part of the world looked pretty empty as of turn 1 -- so maybe that's why Panther's feeling squeezed. I don't particularly care one way or another about a restart, so if other people are unhappy with their starts then it's fine by me. I just want us all to get yarnin'.

[Alneyan]

The command to be used is #specstart [nation number] [province number]. You could also set all provinces save for nine as no-start, but that would take a lot more time.

Who picks the provinces is not for me to decide however(I've got to get out of my habit of administring). If Tauren goes this way, there is no need to tell us about the starting provinces either: he can keep the .map file secret, so we would not know where are all the other capitals.

[djo]

I support Panther's call for a restart (although he did not explicitly ask for it). This is a high investment, one-of-a-kind game, and I'd appreciate the same courtesy were it to happen to me. Although if I am indeed part of the clump, I guess it has!

[The Panther]

After seeing all the black candles near my capitol on turn 2, I asked Tauren if I truly was so darn near several opponents. Here is what he found using the master password:

1. I am in province 9.
2. Someone (probably Alneyan) is in 137.
3. Someone (probably djo) is in 25.
4. The third person (unknown) is in 17.

In case you didn't know, you can type #9 'enter' to locate province 9.

Take a look and you will be amazed at the positioning. Three of the five provs adjacent to my capitol are also adjacent to an enemy capitol. The only thing I could reasonably do is to drop out and stale every turn until one of my neighbors became strong enough to take the 125 PD in my capitol.

But I would rather play...

Tauren suggested to re-start the game under Version 2.15 and make sure the capitols are approximately spread evenly before mailing. We both feel it is a 2.16 problem, and I suppose I ought to post the turn file on the other forum (except I have to go to work now).

Panther

[Sedna]

I suppose restarting is only fair. Once the game is started in 2.15 we can switch over to 2.16 so that everyone can have correct battle replays.

I too am anxious to start telling my story, so how about we try to get back to the original schedule and host turn 4 on Monday? Essentially quickhost to get us back on our weekly schedule-- the first few turns require so little time I hope this won't be a great burden on anyone.

[The Panther]

Now that the turn 0 yarns are done, I agree with Sedna to do the first 3 turns quickly after a restart. We are probably already all working on turn 3 yarns anyway, though they may have to be modified with new starting positions.

[The_Tauren13]

Ok, so, Ill just restart the game again, but with 2.15. Then Ill just move it to 2.16 before generating the first turn, so youll still be playing under that version.
Ill host the turns as soon as I get all the files, and hopefully we can finish the first 2 turns before the weekend.

puffyn, the last couple emails I sent you have bounced, with a weird error message. Do you have an alternative address?

[Sedna]

So my home province is right next door to the inquisition's best buds in the whole world, Ermor. Thematically, I like starting close to Ermor, but this is a little close for comfort.

Not that the Inquisition is afraid! We would happily purge the undead from our lands, but perhaps Zen would object.

[The Panther]

Well, I am adjacent to the lizards this time. No space at all between our capitols.

What is the deal? Why have there been countless games started in Dominions without having this problem in the past?

I just don't get it. The game seems to not care about space between starting capitols anymore...

[djo]

Wow, this is incredible.

My start this time was clean--in the old neighborhood, in fact, on the other side of where Panther was first time out. Almost on the water, sigh.

Shall we move to plan C, human-placed starts? So long as they are vaguely approximately well-scattered, I won't cavil about small inequalities.

[Sedna]

I don't know how Dominions checks/assigns starting locations. Perhaps completely disconnecting the overseer province messed up the algorithm? Clearly we should just go with human-assigned fairly evenly spaced. As long as the spots are chosen first and then the person assigns nations to those spots in a completely random way I think it'll be quite fair. We'll all see each other's starts when the first map is revealed anyway, so anyone could do this.

[PashaDawg]

The Panther said:
In case you didn't know, you can type #9 'enter' to locate province 9.




Holy smoke! I did not know that!!

[djo]

Sedna said:
As long as the spots are chosen first and then the person assigns nations to those spots in a completely random way I think it'll be quite fair. We'll all see each other's starts when the first map is revealed anyway, so anyone could do this.



Excellent point.

This is a pain in the neck to do on a wrapping map...

Somebody else should check this, but how about 1, 12, 24, 54, 65, 86, 111, 122, 139 for starting provinces? Almost all have 3-4 between them.

Let me stress the "somebody else should check this" part. I'm sure I missed something near the edges. Feel free to mess with the list...I won't have time to get back to it anytime soon.

[Sedna]

Hi Djo,

Those look like fine starts. I've put red dots on your suggestions on the map. I do suggest moving start 111 to province 98 as indicated by the arrow. This is mainly because I think start 1 already has a fairly poor position (all that waste and mountains), and 1 and 111 are only two apart.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/353884-Starts.jpg

[The_Tauren13]

That looks good! Excellent work.
In the mapfile, I will put nostarts in all the provinces except those listed, and then who starts in which spot will be randomized.

3rd times the charm...

[PashaDawg]

Cool. You guys are all such good sports!!

[djo]

Glad to help out.

I just want to get writing.

I'm also very interested in seeing everyone else get writing, too!

[The_Tauren13]

Sorry for all the delays. We are up and running once more.
The hosting schedule is kind of hazy these first couple turns; I just hope to host turn 3 on monday...

[quantum_mechani]

Hehe, I can't believe it, I started in the same sucky spot in the desert all three times.

[The_Tauren13]

Ok, so I will send out a screen shot of the Eyes of God every third turn, starting on turn 3. That way you can have the updated map for your yarns.

[PashaDawg]

Were we gonna do the first turns quickly so that the yarning still occurs over a weekend?

[Sedna]

I hope so. Hopefully people who haven't played their turn yet can do so soon.

[Sedna]

So, who's holding us up? I don't mean to be pushy, but...

[Zen]

That would be me. I have been out of town working for the last 3 days and had thought (wrongly it seems) that the hosting schedule would allow me to check and do a turn today. But it seems everything has gone awry.

I didn't know this was one of those restart over and over games that you have to watch the beginning of for a week to see if everyone is happy with what they got.

I'll do my best to turn in as many turns as I can today but I am still out of town and only recently had a chance to do anything personal and not business related.

I apologize for the delay.

[The_Tauren13]

Were also waiting on Griffin. He may be out of town or something, as he is also missing from a few other games...

[puffyn]

If Griffin is really missing in action, what do people want to do? It's possible he'll return- perhaps The_Tauren could play his first turn (there's not much earth-shattering to do).

[Alneyan]

Griffin has sent a turn to one of my games around 0000 Britain Time, and he played a turn in KOTH yesterday.

[PashaDawg]

Maybe someone should send him an email reminder? I would, but I don't think I have his email address.

[Zen]

I don't know if this is a factor, but me and Ulm started right next to each other. I don't care about that fact, but that might be why he is not turning in his turns since suddenly he is right next to a crippling high powered Dominion.

With that said, can we get a set schedule and adhere to it at some point. I am having to change what I've written based on sudden changes in the game and I don't have alot of time as of right now.

[The Panther]

Zen, you must not have the latest game file which fixed this problem. There was another restart with fixed positions since Dominions seems to be failing on selecting starting positions under the latest patches.

[Zen]

It was the latest one that was sent to me from the Tauren. I have 3 Turn 1 files from Taurent in the last week and I've kept all of them. I have no idea which one is which as they are all named the same and are only differentiated by dates.

[The_Tauren13]

How the [censored] did he start there? I marked 154 as a nostart.
Wow dominions can be a pain in the *** sometimes.

Ill see if I can find out what happened...

[djo]

154, hmm? In the modified .map file Alneyan posted way above, there is a stray commander meant for the overseer in 154 (possibly due to an imprecise cut/paste?):



#setland 154
#defence 125
#commander "Initiate of the Deep"




I don't see how that could matter, though.

Maybe using 10 #specstart's instead of all the #nostart's would be better?

Either way, what is the plan now?

[PashaDawg]

Do we just amend the map? Do we choose a different map?

I don't know if it would work for this game, but Sachka's new map, Land of Shahrivar, is wicked cool.

[Alneyan]

Indeed, that commander should be with all the others, and definitively not in 154.

[Zen]

Well I think we've been delayed for more than just a little snafu. Can we get a firm day when/what something is going to be sorted out to actually start?

If not, can you please send out an Email when/if this is going to start as I know myself I'm starting to lose steam on my ideas and potential implementation (unfortunately my Backstory requires at least a few turns before I can release it, due to the nature of the Theme I'm playing) without any word or followthrough.

[The_Tauren13]

Sorry guys, Ive restarted the game several times and actually checked the starting spots before I sent it out, but every time it hasnt been right. Ive re-written the map file several times but it isnt working. I dont know why its being such a pain in the ***.
I think I will go with the djos idea; I will try making 10 specstarts. However, you will have to trust me to randomize it, as the game will not do it.
I just got back from the gym and am really tired, though, so Im not doing anything tonight. If I can get it working tommorow morning, Ill send out the turn. So expect it in about 12 hours or so.

[The_Tauren13]

Well, because the god damn water still isnt working at my house, I cant take a shower, and im certainly not going to bed until im cleaned off. So I went ahead and did the specstarts, and started the game AGAIN.
I was too [censored] tired to check anything except that nobody is adjacent to anybody else. As nobody was, I went ahead and sent it out.
I think Ill just fall asleep on the floor now.

[puffyn]

Tauren,

Thanks for all your hard work, and the new turn. I can attest that I have no problems with my start. Hopefully, no one else will either, and we can actually get to a Turn 2 sometime soon... though I've gotten pretty good at playing Turn 1 by now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Silly Dom2 gods-of-starting-positions and their malicious sense of humor.

[djo]

Thanks, Tauren, for keeping us in mind. And congratulations on yr graduation.

My start is fine--no one in sight. I should have known my last start was too good to be true. I still have beachfront property (hurrah), but it's in the rugged section of town. I was next to the lake, now I'm next to the ditch.

Like Zen, my momentum was entirely lost, but these few messages (and a new turn) have perked it up again.


Zen said:
my Backstory requires at least a few turns before I can release it, due to the nature of the Theme I'm playing



I'm looking forward to seeing it. I was thinking of playing Ermor, but I couldn't get any ideas for the "all dead, all the time" themes. I was half thinking of doing some kind of Shakespearean tragedy for the BE theme.

[PashaDawg]

Looks good for T'ien C'hi.

[The_Tauren13]

Sorry it took so long. Ive been kinda busy with graduation, so I didnt have alot of time to mess with things. But now thats over, and I look forward to reading all the stories.

I took the time this morning to check out everyones turns, and which province they are in. The specstarts worked. So, we are up and running. For real this time.

The deadline for turn 1 will be on wednesday, friday for turn 2, and next monday for turn 3. I will host if I recieve all the turns before that, but will not move up the deadlines. That way you can write the yarns over the weekend. (You are writing yarns on turn 3, right?)

[Sedna]

Why don't we have the first turn due on Monday? That still allows "Turn 3" turns to be written over the weekend, just after the turn has actually run.

[djo]

I second the motion.

For me, when the divisible-by-3 turns fall is not of much importance. The muse doesn't pay much attention to the calendar.

What would a muse be like as a pretender? Research bonus? Increases turmoil? Produces random gem? hp fluctuates wildly from turn to turn? Disappears for 5 turns then comes back and pretends nothing happened?

[The_Tauren13]

If thats ok with everyone else, its fine with me.

[The Panther]

Sedna said:
Why don't we have the first turn due on Monday? That still allows "Turn 3" turns to be written over the weekend, just after the turn has actually run.



I add my concurrance with this plan. The turns will run Monday, Wednesday, and Friday under this schedule. The yarns will then be due each Monday. Sounds like a good idea to me.

That is, if this game ever gets off the ground. It took me a while this morning to remember what the heck I am planned to do anyway...

[The_Tauren13]

Um...
I am on vacation for the next couple weeks, and forgot to bring along everyone's email address, so Ill be needing you to tell me them again.

So, please just post your nation and email address...

[PashaDawg]

Tien Chi - whscom **aT** maine {DOT} com

[djo]

Vanheim's email sent via PM...

[puffyn]

All hail the glorious C'tis

- puffyn AT gmail DOT com

[Alneyan]

You should know mine, I think, but just in case: it's my username on the fastmail.co.uk domain.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Sorry Sorry, i did no post for such a long time: technical problems :-)

[djo]

puffyn said:
All hail the glorious C'tis



Truly, we are all glorious on turn 1.

[PashaDawg]

Yup!! T'ien Chi is GLORIOUS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The_Tauren13]

Sorry about my stupidity here, guys, but the sooner I get all the addresses the sooner we can continue.
What nation are you playing, Alneyan?

[djo]

Check your PM...I pulled the whole list off your last status email.

(Why didn't I think of this yesterday?)

[edit]

And if anyone want to use a different email than was used on the last status email, tell Tauren!

[The_Tauren13]

Geeze thanks a bunch, djo.
Next turn should be coming out shortly.

[The_Tauren13]

Ugh, I sent back all the .2h files instead of the .trn files.
Sorry about that. Let me try again...

[puffyn]

(At some point I'm sure I'll get lazy and just post to the wiki (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/index.php?title=Main_Page), but for our loyal readers who have not yet found the wiki (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/index.php?title=Main_Page), here's my first turn, aka "Turn 3". To see Turn 0, you'll have to go to the wiki (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/index.php?title=Turn0).

--- C'tis, Turn 3 ---

KEE-RACK

"Are you sure we should be in here?" The dank air hung closely around the two little lizards as they struggled to see, to find movement their eyes could latch onto. So far the darkness was winning.

"You scared, little egg-brother?" came the taunting reply. Laph's cohort had hatched a mere four days before his, and she wasn't about to let him forget it. Ruli ignored her, and focused on trying to find what they'd come for. It was his idea, after all.

KR-R-R-R-R...

There, by the shaft of warm air. A few photons, much battered after their long passage through tiny crevasses and barely perceptible cracks in the rock, were bouncing again, this time off of something vaguely off-white, on the far side of the cavern. And it was definitely moving.

"Found 'em!" said Laph, as Ruli opened his mouth to announce his discovery. She had sharper eyes than him, too. They skittered over to the weary dancing photons, eyes locked now on subtle movements they hadn't noticed before.

... ck

When the tiny lizard finally broke through, the final bit of eggshell popped off with an anticlimactic whisper. The hatchling took a hesitant step forward, stopped, then looked around wide-eyed, taking in the nest; already, cracks were forming on two other eggs, and three more were not far behind. His eyes moved next to the two slightly larger lizards hovering over him, one of them staring at him with great fascination... and the other busily scooping his discarded egg shell into a bag. The hatchling began to cry.

"Oh, now look what you've done, Ruli," said Laph, hastily scouring the floor for something.

"They have to be fresh," Ruli protested. "Great-grandfather says otherwise they don't have enough life force left for his incantations to work, and ..." And she wasn't listening to him, again.

But at least the hatchling was no longer crying. He was making happy gurgling sounds as he shook something that looked suspiciously like a falchion, but rattled. "I always knew the elite nurseries were well taken care of," said Laph, "but wow. Remember Crotalus?"

The legendary sacred serpent, from when Mother Gehyra was a hatchling, the one who drove the scale-leavers from the land, and spoke persuasively with a certain dragon about relocating his lair... He remembered the stories. "I think that rattle was his," said Laph.

"Oh," said Ruli. What lucky hatchlings. I bet Cole will take them on raids with him long before Laph or I get to go. He turned to leave. "Laph?" She had disappeared. "C'mon, stop playing games." He looked all around, but she had vanished. "If Cole finds us here..."

"He'll eat you for dinner, is that it?" There was a deep chuckle. Ruli jumped, then looked up, and saw Laph high above him, dangling by her tail. "Now why would I want to eat such enterprising and scrawny youngsters as yourselves, when the world is brimming with fat, lazy warm-blooded prey?"

The giant head bent slowly down, placing Laph gently on the ground. Her eyes shone with excitement; Ruli wondered idly why he was the only one whose first response, on meeting the huge carnivorous lizard up close, was a little healthy fear.

But do stop bothering the hatchlings, said Cole. They're no good to me terrified. He turned to the remaining five eggs, intently watching one whose cracks were beginning to grow.

Ruli grabbed his bag of eggshell, nudged Laph out of her reverie, and they skittered quickly toward the exit tunnel. "Did you see me?" said Laph, a little breathlessly. "I must've been nearly a thousand centimeters in the air!" They were almost out of the birthing cavern when they heard Cole's voice again.

"Do be patient, Ruli," he said. "There will be plenty of battles left for you when you are ready for them." The last thing Ruli and Laph heard as they scampered out of the cavern was the sound of a rattle shaking, and a very deep voice saying, "Coochie-coochie-coo."

---

[djo]

Here's Vanheim's turn 3 yarn. For turn 0, and all the rest, see the wiki (link in my sig).

Vanheim Turn 3

In which Vethru arrives and considers what he's arrived to, and Pherios finds himself with greater, more exciting responsibilities.


Vethru

There are many ways to begin...philosophical, historical, paradoxical, with excitement, with romance, with suspense, literally, literarily, literately, emotionally, intellectually, viscerally, whimsically...but let's try factually on for size.

I'm returning empty-handed from a distant land where, I kid you not, the people are ruled by baker-kings, when I meet the old man at a crossroads. We're in one of those synesthetic dimensions where you feel like you're walking on music, and every time you open your mouth, it looks like the dreams of an abstract expressionist. I wasn't having any trouble with it, but he looked very puzzled.

"Ho, traveler," he says, calling down from his horse. "Do you know this land? I seem to have lost my way."

Maybe it has something to do with the fact he's only got one eye. Before I can answer, he asks, "Is that a seagull on your shoulder?"

"Yes," I tell him. "He's a pet." I say this mostly because Ji hates being called a pet.

"Are you a sailor, then? I am searching for land of sailors."

"I was," I say. There's something wrong with the stranger beside his eye; his appearance is very uncertain, very shaky. In this dimension, it comes across like an indistinct mix of aromas from a dozen kitchens. (I still can't get that baker's land out of my mind!)

"A sailor, and a bird lover! Fate has brought me just the man I need. I, too, have birds. Usually, they guide me, but I cannot find them. Have you seen two ravens in your travels?"

I had, and they were delicious. "I saw them down the right fork," I tell him, because I'm sensing something very, very interesting down the left fork. "Not too far along, either."

"Excellent," he says. "Thank you, old sailor, and may the wind be at your back." He straightens in his saddle. "I must be going; they are waiting for me."

After he disappears down the right fork, I follow the prayers I hear down the left fork. Don't judge me. I really was a sailor, once. Besides, he would've done the same to me, if I'd given him the chance. You can't trust a god, ever.

It's a dark and stormy night when I finally arrive. It's a normal world, where light goes in your eyes, and sound comes out of your mouth. Everything looks very old, which is good for what I'm looking for. But as you'd expect, they summoned me to the newest, cleanest temple. The priests are just like that one eyed old man, tall, with that shimmering, wavy appearance. I walk out into the courtyard, and it's filled with humans and a few more of the tall ones.

It becomes apparent they feel some dire need to conduct military exercises for me, in the rain, at midnight. They're all very enthusiastic, very eager to pledge their loyalty and honor and lives to me. I accept, of course, with great dignity. I let them parade back and forth a couple times, then I send them home so I can get out of the rain.

A couple hours later, after being introduced to a passel of Vanherses and Vanjarls, I'm finally left alone.

"I don't know," I say. "They're a fine fighting force, but honor and purity of heart will only get you so far."

Ji squawks. "Yeah, boss, I don't think these guys are cut out for back-alley wet work."

I'm wondering if I shouldn't have let One-Eye have them when there's a noise of the door. A wild eyed human is there. He's dressed in brown, and he's got a scraggly beard. "Come with me, if you would," he says. "There's more to see." He gives me a wink and a grin and a nod, so I follow him.

Around the back of the castle, in a dark, overgrown courtyard, are another dozen like him. No mounts, no spears or javelins for them. Big swords and axes. Not a one of the men is unscarred.

"This land's light and dark," he says. "These're your folk, too."

He takes me out the gate. The rain's stopped, and the wind blows the clouds from the moon. A beam catches a group of men milling around the base of a tower belching thick smoke. They make the einhere look tame. No armor, only furs. They twitch in the moonlight, snuffle as I pass. My guide pulls open the tower's rotting door, and as I enter and descend, I hear howls behind me.

In the flickering firelight, dark shapes work. Clanging punctuates the flare and spark of hot metal being hammered. A tall shape among the small limps toward me. She's got the usual uncertain presence, but unlike the boys out front, with their shine and dazzle, her misdirection is all oily shadow.

She's not a pretty picture. Her head's tilted over to touch an ear to a shoulder. Her skin is waxy blue-grey. Her bloody eyes bulge. The edges of her mouth twist upward, baring her teeth. I choose to interpret it as a smile.

This, I can work with.




Pherios

The castle on Paistellus is the second highest point in the city. From here, you can see the surrounding mountains and badlands, the plains to the north, and the Black Gorge to the south. The land looks just like it did the first time I saw it, when I was a boy. It's not. Nothing's the same. Everything has changed.

Yesterday I was summoned before the Konella Koreia. I never thought I'd see them when I was so young. Someday, sure. Our House often sits on the council. Belletennares does right now. But I thought I'd be a few hundred years older before I had the chance to serve.

I was nervous, and excited, but I told them my dream, answered their questions, and offered my service to them.

"Vanheim accepts your service, Pherios of Alteion," their leader said. "This is what we require: Vethru has sent for you. Our orders to you are to serve him."

Later I learned that the Konella Koreia gave Vethru its approval to rule over Vanheim. But right then, they escorted me on wobbly knees to a library in the castle to meet Vethru.

I had been there when he arrived, of course. Belletennares had rushed us to Vanheim just in time for that. I didn't get a good look at him, on that dark night. Now, in person, Vethru was a paradox. He sat at a table with a pile of books in front of him, just a small, gray-faced old man, yet he radiated power like the greatest of Vanjarls. His violet eyes were clear and piercing.

"So you're the one who foresaw my arrival," he said.

"Yes, sir," I said. There was a gull standing on the table. It walked a few steps forward and tipped its head toward me.

"Have you seen anything more?" he asked. He seemed kind. His voice was grandfatherly, and he was almost smiling. "I'd pay well for accurate predictions of the future."

"Well...I see things, but I can't always tell what it means. I mean, I may see something that eventually might happen, but I can't always figure out the symbols until after. I may not even know the people involved until later, when I've heard what happened." The bird was definitely watching me. Birds are usually twitchy. Their heads always jerk from one side to another. This gull was staring right at me. "I could describe exactly what I see. Which may mean nothing. That's the best I can promise. And I don't need to be paid. I serve Vanheim. That's all the payment I need."

He laughed. "An honest seer! That's something I haven't seen in a long time." Then he studied me. I couldn't look away from his eyes. It seemed like he could see into my soul, and I was afraid of what he'd find--a Van too young to know what nonsense he was wasting a god's time with.

But then he did smile, a real smile. "I need your eyes," he said. And with that, he made me head of the seers. Which right now is only me, but he says there will be more. It's my job to watch the skies and record what I see. I'll get to look at all the reports of the armies and their scouts and spies, so I can recognize the significance of what I'm seeing.

"And keep studying magic," he said. "We've got a lot to do. I'll need you even more later."

So now I study magic and theology in the mornings, and I read reports and orders in the afternoon. In the evenings, I study more, or I train with the spear and the javelin with my uncle and my cousins, until I'm ready to fall asleep in the saddle.

In the moments in between, I come up to the high places and watch the skies. Everywhere I look, I see things. The spring skies are turbulent. The gulls are everywhere, chasing away the other birds. The winds sculpt the clouds into shapes that twists and battle in the air. I write it all down in my notebook.

Today, from my turret high in the castle, I saw someone on the slopes of Triastellus, someone who, like me, was watching the sunset. She was sketching the shifting columns of red and purple clouds. Now and then, she would gather her papers and fly to another spot for a better view. I wondered who this Valkyrie was. I waved to her, to try to get her attention, but she didn't see me.

I had been watching her for half an hour when birds began to flock around her. She didn't seem to notice. Gulls circled, and I caught flashes of a white bird, and a black one. They formed a maelstrom around her, then, moments later, I couldn't see her or the birds in the gathering twilight.

That night, I dreamed it again. Now she was a snowy egret flying with a flock of gulls and a few ravens. They flew far and wide across the countryside, often diving toward the ground, only to regain the sky and fly to another spot. Dark clouds gathered overhead. Lightning started to flash. The birds continued their search, I don’t know for what. The clouds billowed and the wind roared, but the bird flew on, ignoring the storm chasing them across the land. Then I woke.

She was in danger. I had to find her.

[The_Tauren13]

Sorry, but because I havent had a chance to get on during the last 30 hours, we are behind schedule.

Here is a screenshot of the map as seen by the eyes of god.

[The Panther]

The Kingdom of Man, Turn 3

I was royally pissed.

Hmm… I kind of like that word royally. It makes me feel special.

But enough of that. One thing about being the Queen of Man is that people instantly respond to your every command. I might actually get used to this! So…

“GET RALPH IN HERE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!”

I even managed to keep a stern face until AFTER my handsome young attendant ran off to obey me!

It did not take him long. Of course, I started on Ralph the instant he arrived inside my huge field tent in the mountains of Gryphon Spires.
“Uncle Ralph”, I said, using my iciest voice. “You told me they would bow before me. You said that my dominion already controlled this land. You even said your preaching is paying dividends inside all the borders of our so-called friendly neighbors. SO WHY ARE THERE 28 CORPSES ON THIS BATTLEFIELD?”

That darn man. He is always so very glib. He knows the proper words in any situation. I was therefore totally unable to faze him in the slightest. “Twenty eight, huh? That many…” he replied evenly.
“Yes, I personally counted them. Furthermore one of my own loyal spearmen is dead and three axemen are over in the medical tent being treated for injuries. Two of them have even lost an eye!”

Ralph paused for just a tiny moment before continuing, “Well, my dear niece,” he said lightly, “I did not expect to find the local Lord with such a large army. I suppose he took affront when I asked him to contribute gold to the rise of the Age of Man in your honor.”
“Asked, smasked, you slippery man you. I am sure it was more like you ordered him to pay up or else.”
“Perhaps, my dear, perhaps I did. You could be right.”
“I AM right.”
“Yes, my queen, your word is gospel.”
I stared at him in silence, letting him squirm under my glare.

But he was not squirming at all! In fact, he seemed highly amused. Darn that man! Why did my father have to die while Uncle Ralph continued to live?

I sighed deeply and said, “Well, uncle, I do admit I am very happy that I came along with you. That flying shard spell taught to me by the Royal Library was most effective indeed. I did not know I could do such things.” The memory of stones being conjured out of my hands and landing on the heads of the enemy was still fresh in my mind.

Ralph eventually replied, “Oh, I knew you could do many things, Selena. I have always known that you inherited much of the gypsy ways of my mother, your grandam. You have far more magic ability than your fair share, my young enchantress. Of that I am totally certain.”
“As do you, my dear uncle. What was that spell you kept casting to keep our axemen from running away when they engaged the enemy? Can you teach me that?”
Uncle Ralph answered, “I call it the ‘Sermon of Courage’. But I think you are not holy enough to try it as yet. I think you are better off attempting some other spells more suited to your style.”
“Like?”
“Well, I have heard of a splendid spell called ‘Quickness’. We will try to discover how it is done and teach it to you.”
“What would this new spell do for me?”
“It makes you move at twice the speed of most mortals.”
“Could I cast my spells faster?”
“Yes, twice as fast!”
“I see. Do it then.”
“Yes, my Queen. I hear and obey.”
And with that, Uncle Ralph turned and left my royal field tent without even a goodbye.

Darn that man!

[PashaDawg]

My recollection is that yarns are due every Monday. Right? I hope so!! Now, let me see where I left my muse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[djo]

It's not exactly a school assignment, but that was the vague guideline. However, we never put a firm deadline on it, and there was some discussion about awarding the pearls no matter when the yarns came in (an idea I agree with strongly).

I say, get 'em done when you get 'em done, and I hope people will worry about fun and quality before what the calendar says. I'm a slow writer, and I need to rewrite a lot, so I expect I will lag at some point in the future myself.

[PashaDawg]

So, you won't send Dusty after me if I am late? /threads/images/Graemlins/Hammer.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Hammer.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Target.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon44.gif

[Sedna]

996 A.P.P.M
To his Lord, the Archbishop of Polgrave,

Dominus Vobiscum. I trust the new year finds you well, and that the recent murder in your househould has not proved too great a burden. I understand that the attacker was caught, and as a personal favor to you I will see that she is tried as a witch and barred from paradise.

The Three of Three will not be happy at the next conclave. AFTIAL has declared that, in honor of Her arrival, the period of peace for Carrofactum should be extended to two months. The Three Above believe AFTIAL's arrival to be a sign that we are supposed to establish God's Kingdom on earth by military conquest, so they will be frustrated by this period of waiting and prayer.

Yet I believe we see eye-to-eye on this matter: AFTIAL comes to cleanse not the exterior world, but to renew the LORD's church from within. She comes to purge the last vestiges of death-worship from our lands, to drive the devil-worshipers and druids out of the Church, and to restore doctrinal purity. Unfortunately, our view will not carry the Church, despite my close ties to AFTIAL. The Three Between are also enamored of conquest, and so we will have war with the neighboring barons to bring them more closely in line with the church, but let us pledge never to lose sight of this true goal:

For nothing that comes from without a man can defile him.
It enters him and leaves him, and does not change him.
Yet as each man dies, so death waits within each of us.
And this is the corruption of man."

Cum flammae et fidei et gladiis,
Father Muszinger

* * * * * * * * *

On the first day or Carrofactum I rose early and wandered the twisted halls of the library in search of The Map of Jerovia, reputed to be "Thee most trvest and accvrate portrayle of the lands hereabovts, with propre notes to gvide the faithfvl pilgrim". I was skeptical, and rightly so, for the tattered shard of map I found hidden within a tome contained precious little information not commonly known throughout the kingdom. I was on my way out when I saw her, sitting by herself on the floor, quietly turning the pages of a ancient volume. The dawn sun had just crept high enough to pour in through the nearest window, and it sparkled off the dust in the air, providing her with a halo. She was dressed all in purest white, and I for a moment I could hear chanting from the choir below.

Since then I have seen her every morning. I admit that I seek out the library now, in the hopes of seeing her. I have not yet worked up the nerve to speak to her and ask how a woman gets access to the inmost library in the House of Just Fires. Her choice of books is decidedly esoteric. After she departs for morningsong I have gone to her place of study and easily located the books she has been readings as the ones without a fine layer of dust. Many a time she has been reading a work in one of the Lost Tongues, but I cannot imagine what she hopes to gain therein. But, ah, my heart beats fast every morning when I catch a glimpse of her, my goddess of the morning (forgive, oh LORD, your servant for this small blasphemy).

* * * * * * * * *

I hate priests with a passion above all else. If there is a god anywhere I hope there is an eternal lake for fire for these vermin to swim in. After three weeks the food stops; the cell changes; torture begins. For hours they ply me with fire and blade and ask me to recant my allegiance to She Who Loves Not The Light. From what I can understand through the pain and the smell of my own smoldering flesh I am accused of having sold my soul to acquire the skill and strength to become an assassin, despite the handicaps of the female body and mind. I will not give them the confession they want which is further proof of my guilt. They cut the sun from my skin, condemn my soul in stern, solemn voices that betray none of the joy they took in my trial.

The crowd is in a frenzy at my burning. No longer a member of the church, I am an animal to be sported with. The wood is stacked, and lit. The heat begins to curl my hairs and itch my skin. Then the heavens open and the rain comes down. Lightning strikes amongst the blood-thirsty vulture-peasants. The smoke and steam overpower me.

I am in my mother's arms, on the verge of sleep as she sings to me. I am awake, and seeing the very living face of light. She tells me I am safe now, that I should be at peace. The evil men who did this to me will face justice, not just in the world to come but in the here and now, and I am to be the instrument for this justice. She will guide and protect me as I walk the dangerous road of my life. When I can no longer walk, she will help me crawl. When I can no longer crawl, she will carry me home.

[quantum_mechani]

djo said:
It's not exactly a school assignment, but that was the vague guideline. However, we never put a firm deadline on it, and there was some discussion about awarding the pearls no matter when the yarns came in (an idea I agree with strongly).

I say, get 'em done when you get 'em done, and I hope people will worry about fun and quality before what the calendar says. I'm a slow writer, and I need to rewrite a lot, so I expect I will lag at some point in the future myself.

That's good, as I will probably not be adding onto my yarn for about a month, but I anticipate filling in all the missed ones.

[PashaDawg]

Here is T'ien Ch'i's yarn for turn 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Late Spring in the Year of Good Fortune’s Coming

The cherry trees are in full celebration.
The white pines dance in the breeze.

I, X’ing Gao, take it upon myself to provide a written record of the tremendous events that are unfolding in our lands. Chi Chi Tzu, the Venerable Sage, foretold in his masterpiece, the Mou Mou Ching, of the Coming of Good Fortune, and it appears that all is happening as he foresaw.

I humbly offer myself as the perfect choice to write such a record, for I am the scribe of a country lord of T’ien Ch’i. I have withstood the rigorous training by our wise calligraphy masters, and my brush and ink has been blessed by Heaven. I am not boasting. I cannot. Indeed, the rigors inflicted upon me by the Masters has changed me ontologically. Any ink I use... any brush I touch... through me is blessed by Heaven... and the blessings worked through my skills are such that I am absolutely incapable of exaggeration or even writing falsehoods. (Now, I will admit this “blessing” is not always the most convenient of benefits. Once I was asked to write a poem praising the beauty of my former lord’s wife. Alas! To my distress and the demise of my then employed position, I could only write about the beauty of her shadow, the charm of her silence, and the elegance of her absence.)

So it should be that I am now the honored scribe of a young, impoverished country lord by the name of Zhaung Li Lou. His ancestors were great warlords, but the family’s holdings have been greatly diminished through eternal squabbles in T’ien Ch’i’s courts. So far as I can tell, he will treat me respectfully, and he wishes to do well by all those within his influence. But, he has been my lord for only 6 days. It was his acrimonious father, Zhaung Cow Jo, whom I served for the past two years, but this leads well to present events.

In the Mou Mou Ching (The Way of the Way), the venerable sage Chi Chi Tzu wrote that when the People follow the Way, Heaven will bless them, Fortune will walk the land, and the Warlords will unite. Well, reports had been coming to our village since early Spring that fortunate events were popping up in the Great City with impressive regularity. Common people found gold coins in their pockets after doing the laundry! Long lost pets suddenly found their way home! Even the street astrologers were popular because they read nothing but happy predictions.

Then suddenly She appeared out of the sky... the Goddess. Taller than the Temple of Heaven with an unnerving mixture of beauty and ferocity only found in the divine. She stood in the Park of the Eternal Ancestors by the Pool of Celestial Reflection and declared to His Majesty, the Highest Lord of T’ien Ch’i, “I bring you BLESSINGS and GOOD FORTUNE. YOU shall FOLLOW me. It is the will of HEAVEN that T’ien Ch’i shall rule the world THROUGH ME!” Then She stomped her foot and thereby shook the ground so insistently that everyone in the park fell to their knees, including His Majesty, the Highest Lord! Well... what else does one say to that but “Ok”?

Next She persuaded to His Majesty to call all the warlords to the Great City. And so it was, except for my master’s father, who saw this as an opportunity to wage war against his neighbors while they were away. My master pleaded with his father to stop bringing disgrace on the family. He would have none of it. Zhaung Cow Jo rampaged across the countryside, burning fields and taking booty. His son cried up to Heaven every night for two months wondering how such disaster could befall his family!

Ah... but Heaven was listening, and good fortune struck our little village right where it counts... or maybe I should write that good fortune struck Zhaung Cow Jo right were it counts! One evening while my master’s father was eating his dinner in his chariot, a mischievous breeze took it upon itself to waft an innocent silk worm into the ear of Zhaung Cow Jo’s horse. The horse squealed in surprise and leapt back right as my master’s father was taking his last bite of rice. He fell forward and somehow managed to choke on one chopstick while the other stabbed him in the greatest source of his pride. It happened exactly like that. I was there and cannot write a lie.

And so it was. With his father dead, my master became the lord of our village and swiftly made plans to leave for the Great City. We have been riding for two days. My Lord expects to reach the City by noon tomorrow. There is word that war has already begun.

May Heaven bless my master! May he find his way through the Way.

Humbly and truthfully,

X’ing Gao,
Honored Scribe of Lord Zhaung Li Lou

[PashaDawg]

Hey Panther!

I notice that your turn 3 yarn is not on the Wikki.

Pasha

[Sedna]

I hate to have people miss turns this early in the game. How do people feel about the delay for Zen?

[PashaDawg]

Was he going to be out of town?

[Zen]

I sent the reply mail to the wrong email I resent it this afternoon after I got the Email.

I don't know Tauren's schedule so he probably hasn't had a chance yet to check his Email.

Edit: I was actually hoping he'd be able to send the hostturn soon so I could do it right away, since my Early turns don't amount to much.

[djo]

PashaDawg said:
Hey Panther!

I notice that your turn 3 yarn is not on the Wikki.




I'd be happy to wikify anyone's yarns from this thread, if they'd like. Just give me the word...

I almost did Panther's without asking, but that would be impolite and wrong.

The wiki is like a nice little growing shrubbery; it just wants some more leaves so it doesn't look scraggly.

[The Panther]

I am on a business trip in California right now, so go ahead and Wikki my Turn 3 djo, I don't mind. When I posted my yarn in this forum, I could not find the Turn 3 page on the site, but I doubt I looked very closely and I am not the most computer literate person. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[djo]

It's done! I love the wiki.

For some reason, the wiki logged me out at some point (despite "remember me on this computer"), so I'm tagged by IP# instead of login name on the "recent changes" page for this edit. Has anyone else seen that? Maybe there's a timeout on logins.

[Zen]

My Turn 3 is in finally. Please remember you can barely even consider it a second draft. If only I had to go through it a little bit when I was mangling it into the wiki and made some revisions off of a first draft.

So expectations = bad grammar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Good job, y'all. Love the first round of yarns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[djo]

I commented in the wiki on the variety we have (see the talk/discussion page for turn 3), but I mostly addressed form, tone, things like that. Zen's turn 3 made me realize we also have good variety of subgenre. Ermor reads like military fiction. Pan/Man are mainstream/bestseller. Marignon has what might be political intrigue going on. C'tis looks like a coming-of-age story so far. Tien Chi (add apostrophes as you like) reads like a folk tale.

Something for everyone! And remember, spectators can add comments, too, on the talk/discussion pages.

[puffyn]

Thanks for writing everyone. After far too long on Yarnspinners Classic it is strange (but nice) to have all these other people's stories to read.

There seems to be some sort of delay in hosting this turn though. Is something up, Tauren?

[PashaDawg]

Hey Friends!

I am going out of town this weekend until Sunday evening.

Thanks.

[The Panther]

puffyn said:
There seems to be some sort of delay in hosting this turn though. Is something up, Tauren?



Tauren is on a vacation down in Texas with his mother. His internet access is spotty at best down there. I have not heard from him in several days now so he may be having technical difficulties. Also, his cell phone seems to be turned off and I have no desire to try and track down my ex...

I am sure Tauren will surface soon.

[The_Tauren13]

New turn is finally out. Looks like I wont be able to do this regularly until I get home Wednesday, so just bear with me until then.

[PashaDawg]

So are we supposed to do yarns for Turn 6?

[djo]

PashaDawg said:
So are we supposed to do yarns for Turn 6?



Absolutely!

Writewritewrite...

[The Panther]

Well, I am assuming the yarns are done AFTER Turn 6. I am using results from Turn 6 in my narrative, so I can't finish with my prose until after it hosts.

[PashaDawg]

Good point, P-Kat. I shall wait until after the host, but I fear that the narrative is swiftly turning tragic for the good folk of T'ien Ch'i. Good thing this game is about writing and not winning... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Alneyan]

Don't worry Pasha: my own troops still have trouble figuring out where is the business end of a sword.

And pointlessness galore: I have used the Gender Genie on all our yarns for turn 0 and turn 3, and it appears that we are all males, according to the bot. Sedna and myself are the least males, with a very marginal difference (virtually no difference at all), and Djo's male part doesn't have much of a lead over the female part.

Figuring out the cases where the bot is wrong is left as an exercice for the reader.

[djo]

Before, after, details, details...

I intentionally decoupled (or loosely coupled) a lot of my story from the game to make the writing easier, and more interesting to me.



PashaDawg said:
I fear that the narrative is swiftly turning tragic for the good folk of T'ien Ch'i. Good thing this game is about writing and not winning... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



I second that thought, and a big thanks from Vanheim to TC for making us look not so puny. And keep in mind that your neighbor to the N is not a ravening land-grabber like the purple-legionnaire-snake-people.

[The_Tauren13]

Yes. And I forgot to send gems for yarn writing thus far, so this turn I will do that.

[The_Tauren13]

I do wish there was a way to make the gui dissapear completely for the screenshots...

[Sedna]

And keep in mind that your neighbor to the N is not a ravening land-grabber like the purple-legionnaire-snake-people.



Yeah, what about them Pythites? Buying up the mercs and expanding like there's no tomorrow...


Figuring out the cases where the bot is wrong is left as an exercice for the reader.



I'm going to guess that the bot is wrong in it's conclusion that some contributors are neither male nor female.

[djo]

Alneyan said:
And pointlessness galore: I have used the Gender Genie on all our yarns for turn 0 and turn 3, and it appears that we are all males, according to the bot. Sedna and myself are the least males, with a very marginal difference (virtually no difference at all), and Djo's male part doesn't have much of a lead over the female part.



I suppose I like being a well-balanced (male) person.

When a few more yarns are up, I'm thinking of feeding in my (and Sedna's) separate story threads to see how the different POV characters differ.

It might also be interesting to feed an author's posts in and see how much the results differ from the author's fiction.

In the list of words the site tagged as male was "said", which would seem to skew fiction. Also: "is" = male, "was" = female? Fiction is most often written in past tense, but I chose present tense for 1/3 of my work. Makes you wonder.

[Alneyan]

Was is the weakest keyword for female, so it should not have much of an impact, I think. Said is more annoying though...

Still, it's only good for pointless statistics, though the bot appears to be correct 60% of the time. Not bad, but the advertisted result was 80% correct answers.

[Sedna]

So... the bot is right 60% of the time for Yarnspinners 2 players? With 9 players that's really either 67% or 56% (3 or 4 females). I believe I know the genders of 5 players (of which one is female). 2 other players I have some reason to believe are male, leaving both "unknowns" female.

This could be an excellent logic puzzle: If A knows that 1 out of 5 are female, and B knows that 2 out of 6, how long will it take the train to reach St. Louis?

[The Panther]

Puffyn, Alneyan, and Sedna are female. The rest are male.

Then again, I could be wrong.

[PashaDawg]

What is this program that you are talking about?

[Sedna]

I think this one:

http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.php


Puffyn, Alneyan, and Sedna are female. The rest are male.



Just for kicks, I threw all of Yarnspinners 1 into the Genie. A bigger sample should be more accurate, no? All of the above show up as male. In truth, you are correct in at least one instance, and wrong in at least one.

Who are around what, said these many more?

[Alneyan]

Well, at least one player will have to consider suing the bot for libel... for Sedna is indeed correct in hir assessment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif That should tell you the gender of all those three players, unless someone happens to be lying, of course.

The only "unknown" I can think of would be Djo. The Inquisition will have some work to do it seems; I mean, that's the whole point of having an Inquisition to begin with.

[djo]

Argh, my head...I haven't done this kind of problem since the GREs.

There is undoubtedly some kind of clever semi-cryptographic protocol that will reveal the true distribution while not classifying any particular person. Something like, everyone tells their true gender to two other players and lies to four others. You pass half your answer to the left and half to the right. Sum what you get and take the opposite answer. Works best for N goes to infinity.

(That's a joke, but there must be something like that that would work...)


Alneyan said:
The only "unknown" I can think of would be Djo. The Inquisition will have some work to do it seems; I mean, that's the whole point of having an Inquisition to begin with.



Fortunately, the Inquisition is on the other side of the world from me. Or maybe not so fortunately--maybe they'd be good neighbors!

As I stated on the ys2 wiki, the 'd' in 'djo' stands for "Don" ==> XY-type person.

[Sedna]

I'll use posting my turn here as an excuse to bug you all about writing your turn sixes. So far we only have 3 out of 9...
----

<h4>Marignon, Turn 6</h4>


Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies;
make thy way straight before my face.

For there is no faithfulness in their mouth;
their inward part is very wickedness;
their throat is an open sepulchre;
they flatter with their tongue.

Destroy thou them, O God;
let them fall by their own counsels;
cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions;
for they have rebelled against thee.

But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice:
let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them:
let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.

For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous;
with favor wilt thou compass him as with a shield.

Psalms 5:8-12

Muszinger

"By all that is holy! I should smite your where you stand!"

Father Muszinger grinned softly at that thought as the Archbishop of Marignon strode across the conclave room, spittle flying from his massive jowls.

"You have torn the Church apart with your mad support of this... Aftial. You have sown the soil of faith with the bitter seed of war, and watered the harvest with blood!"

Eventually, Muszinger knew, Marignon would tire. The summer heat still lingered in the House of Just Fires, and the old man was, well, indecently obese.

"The kingdom is falling apart! Condemned witches disappear from embarrassingly public places, and while you play solider in the :Image:MapOfJerovia.jpg|Plains of Eternal Peril, the mighty Aftial, Goddess of... Courage," the sarcasm dripped from his lips, "remains cloistered in the library playing with the minds of schoolboys and sucking at the rotten teat of ancient-- nay, heretical-- knowledge!"

With the last, Marignon pounded on Muszinger's desk with his diadem, then, overcome by exertion, started coughing uncontrollably.

The Archbishop of Wic strode into the center of the chamber. "Friends!"

A hush fell, as this perfect specimen of a man lifted his hands unto heaven.

"Friends. Let us not quarrel. It is true that the lords refused to accept the authority of Aftial, and that most have risen in open revolt, but so much the better. The chance lies before us know to clear the kingdom of this black bile, and bring all power directly under the control of the Church. Father Muszinger's campaign to do this has been quick and decisive. I returned to my home province for the first time in several years, and found the cathedral there in shocking disrepair, and the peasants cowering from me-- from me, a true servant of the LORD."

"Vampire..." muttered someone from behind Muszinger, but he pretended not to hear.

"There is some truth in what Wic says," said the Archbishop of Avoca from where he stood by the fire, despite the heat of the day. "Woledar was a crook who cheated the church out of its rightful tithe. The people will be much better off with their taxes going directly to the church through me."

"And, you, Archbishop of Amiridon?" Wic turned toward the shortest of the archbishops.

"Ach, 'tis true" he murmured. "Me people be better off wid out the yoke of tyranny."

"But what of the witch?" asked the Archbishop of Spire. "Old Ratty let her get away. He's not doing his job properly."

If Muszinger had one regret in life, it was not killing everyone who knew his nickname from school. The indignity of being called back here to answer these ridiculous charges was grating enough. Things were so much simpler out in the field where a good smite took care of everything.

Muszinger rose. He knew he lacked the stage presence of Wic, but... "By the grace of God, I have been charged with a sacred quest. Aftial guards every hair on my head. No man may hinder me." He puled out his dagger and spun it gently on the desk, then sat again and leaned back. "I challenge any man to face me in combat. I will be unarmed, but the LORD will protect me, and the false accuser's soul will never enter the Kingdom."

The blue robes of the Archbishop of Elkland parted with inhuman quickness, and a wicked looking man darted forth with dagger and short sword. Muszinger's heart froze for a second. He'd expected an attack by one of the elderly archbishops, not a fully trained assassin. What if Aftial's protection...?

A searing pain in his arm, and then a flash of light and a thunderclap. The assassin's bloody dagger clattered down with his sword onto the empty stone. Only the faint smell of brimestone and a little wisp of smoke remained.

Muszinger rose. "May the LORD bless and protect you all, as he has blessed me. I return now to the front-lines of the war against death. The Archbishop of Elkland is hereby excommunicated for allowing this assassin to infiltrate the conclave."

And with that he strode from the room, dizzy lights before his eyes. The dagger had been poisoned were his last thoughts as he pushed into the crowd of inquisitors who swirled their black cloaks around him and prevented the Archbishops from seeing his collapse.

[djo]

A question for C'tis...

(see the wiki, C'tis turn 6 for the background)

How long ago did the war with the giants take place? I have decided that, since Vanir have the whole elf thing going, that Vans are very long-lived. I know my character's ages, and I'm wondering if they or their anscestors (esp. Alteion) may have been around then.

[puffyn]

Djo,

Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away... shrouded in the mists of time... once upon a time?

A contextual analysis of my turn 0 (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/index.php?title=C%27tisTurn0) shows that Aetonyx was long dead as of five generations of lizards ago. But lizards grow up fast, and can have rather short generations. How short, I'm flexible on... perhaps this ancient war was only a few hundred years ago. Myths can be so unreliable for accurate dating.

The real point, of course, is that it completely and utterly explains why Jontunheim has never been in any Yarnspinners game up 'til now. 'Cause the lizards killed them off.

[The_Tauren13]

OK everyone, sorry for all that confusion and whatnot. Things are finally running smoothly, and I hope you are enjoying writing as much as I am enjoying reading the yarns.
Now that Im home, I will be able to actually be a proper host, so here's the scoop:

I forgot to send everyone the screenshot for turn 6, I believe, so I will send that out with the next turn. I am also open to suggestions on how to completely do away with the GUI for the screenshots.
I would like people to vote on if I should have province names on or off for the screenshots. It seems to be a bit cluttered as is.
My policy for yarn writing/rewards will be as follows: I will send out rewards 3 turns after the turn the yarn should have been written. That means on turn 9 I will send the pearls to everyone who wrote a yarn for turn 6. If you have not completed the yarn by that time, you will not receive any pearls for writing it.
I would like to just gradually slip into the monday/wednesday/friday hosting schedule, so we will be pretty much running on quickhost only, much as we have been while I was away. However, eventually I hope things will line up nicely, and I will notify everyone when the actual schedule begins, though as long as everyone remains as quick and dedicated as they have been, it wont be much of a problem.

If anyone has any questions, comments, or flames, feel free to bring them up when you vote on the screenshot province names.

[djo]

Here's my turn 6. It's long--I may just post to the wiki if they stay this length. I've got to start pacing myself...I didn't intend to do all 3 POV in one turn, but what can you do.

3 turns/1 week (or so) to get a yarn in is a little faster than I'd prefer. Maybe we can shift the yarn check to +6 or even +9 turns? I'm already starting to lag. I'd limit turn 9 to one POV (I've got a good idea for Vethru), but I don't think I can wait any longer to introduce Galameteia.


Vanheim turn 6 (also on the wiki)

In which Belletennares gains something he did not seek, Pherios is found by something he was seeking, and Vethru just snoops.


Vethru

It's a breezy summer day. I'm pacing in the library when Quellian Ji flies in. He drops a scroll on the table, lands, clears his throat, and extends a wing. " 'All I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying/And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the seagulls crying,' " he recites.

I laugh. "So now you're a mind reader?"

"Tk-k-k. Five libraries in the castle, and you hole up in the smallest one? Why you think that is?"

"It's quiet," I say.

Ji squawks. "Look out the window! It's the only library with a view of the water."

"Land of sailors ..." I say. "Some fishing boats on an inland lake. Racing shells. A few traders."

"But it's still in 'em," he says. "I've been down by the docks. They've all got salt water in their veins. They're the real deal."

"Maybe. It's not the same."

"Sorry, boss," Ji says. "But it's not forever. We'll be out of here someday, right? This, too, shall pass, and all that?"

I nod. This will pass. I'll pass it by. In a hundred years, or a thousand, I may not remember Vanheim and its land-locked sailors. Life is motion; existence is change. It takes astonishingly little time before everything you love fades into indistinct, blurry memories, and you're left with an empty soul, a feeling you can't believe will also fade, but it does--you stumble into unexpected beauty or kindness, and your heart thaws and starts to beat again. And it happens over and over and over.

On the other hand, I don't live, and my heart doesn't beat, so why should you listen to me?

I open the scroll. It's written in an elegant, feminine hand. The neat lines trail down and to the right. It reads:


Project Excelsior is progressing. I hope to have the results you want by the end of the year. On the other matter, I can give you one squad per month, but I'm not sure they're worth the resources. It will take much longer before we can do better. Send me more dwarves!

Come visit the tower, my friend. There are many fascinating mysteries we can discuss.

Yours in service, T.


"She gives me the creeps," says Ji.

"Why? It's no different than what I did. A little messier. What she did took cojones. I like that."

"Frankly, boss, sometimes you give me the creeps, too."

"Do you scare yourself when you pass a mirror? Because you've walked that path, too, my friend."

Ji shivers. "Never again."

"Not even to save your life?"

"Please don't ask me that." Ji is still uncomfortable with the liberties I take with the "natural order" of things. All in good cause, of course,

We watch tiny figures drifting over the hills of the city. "This place is getting to me," he says. "I like it better when we're the only weird, mythological things wandering around."

"Not this time," I say. "It won't be easy, with other powers active. We'll be fighting for everything. And if they figure out what I'm after..."

"Gah. Creepy. And they take it all for granted! Belletennares leads the army like he was born to be the anointed one of a god," Ji says. "I hate that. It took me forever to get used to it."

"He's perfect," I reply. I watch the Valkyries in the sky. Graceful creatures, and deadly. And all of them quite beautiful. I wonder if I know the death god who gave them their powers. I'd like to buy him lunch. "And what about young Pherios? We've never been anticipated so specifically. He even managed to pull you into his dream."

"Like a puppet! I have no idea where those words came from. Or what they mean."

"Watch him. Talk to him, when you find the right moment. We need him. He's got great potential."

"OK, boss. Whatever you say."

"House Alteion will win us this war," I say. "They are extraordinary."

Ji says, "Blech. They're extraordinary, I'm extraordinary, you're extraordinary. We've got a real shortage of ordinary around here."

"And round me up some Valkyries. I have an idea."


Pherios

"Quack, quack. Quack?"

I stared at the ducks swimming in Alteion's fountain. One of them stared back for a moment, then got bored and left. Smart duck.

The ducks weren't telling me anything. As far as I could tell, they were just swimming around in circles, and it didn't mean anything. None of the scholars on Triastellus could read the parchments Vethru gave me to show around. And no one could tell me anything about a Valkyrie who sketched the skies from the hill. I looked up at great-grandfather's statue and despaired.

"Hey, Pherios!" I turned around in time to be swept up in Petema's embrace. "Ah, little cousin," she said. She called us all cousins, even though she was the eldest of the family now. Although she wore a few wrinkles and grey hairs, she still chose to ride with the army rather than sit on the Konella Koreia. "How are you? What are you doing on Triastellus?"

"Everything and nothing." I looked up at Alteion again. "Not enough."

She laughed. "He's not grading you." People in the busy square were starting to watch us. I wasn't used to it, people pointing at me and whispering. I can't even figure out how they know who I am, or why they care. Petema noticed, took my arm, and said, "Let's go get a drink."

Once in a comfortable tavern a couple blocks away from Alteion's tomb, I showed her the papers, a collection of a dozen pages in a dozen alien alphabets. They all were recent copies, of what, I don't know. The scribe who gave them to me claimed the originals had been written by Vethru himself.

"This one doesn't even look like writing," Petema said. "What are all those lines for? They're not pretty enough to be art. Sorry," she said, handing them back to me. "I don't recognize the writing. Your father might know. Too bad, the real linguist in the family was Tilneia. Poor kid. Vethru is really interested in antiquities, isn't he? I've seen scholars running all over the hill, even a few dwarves."

"Yes. Every time I talk to him, he's in one of the libraries, reading old books, or talking to the old Jarls on the council."

"Have you found anyone who could read them?"

"Not yet. Just one guy who said he saw something like it in Cimri once."

"And what about your girlfriend? Any luck finding her?"

"What?" I said. "I mean, how...?"

"Old Epimerius told me. He's the keeper of the Meila Galleria. He told me you were asking about a Valkyrie after you showed him these papers. What? What's wrong?"

"I'm not supposed...I mean, I did see her--thought I saw her, thought she was, or, might be in danger...but I guess that wasn't what I was thinking of when I went looking for her. I shouldn't have been wasting my time on my own...um...pursuits?"

She smiled and touched my arm. "It's OK. Don't worry, cousin. There's time for everything. Listen. You know there's going to be tough times ahead. Better than me."

"A few years," I said. "Maybe more. Probably."

"A few years--it doesn't sound like much. You think you can focus on the war and leave all the rest for later. Put it all out of your mind and do your duty, and nothing else. But those five years, you've got to live them. There are a lot of moments to fill. You can't spend all your time fighting or studying or planning. You'll go nuts. Do you want to end up as serious as your dad? Besides, when you think Alteion met Philia?"

"Really?"

"Yeah, really. He started out like you, you know? Mom always described him as a skinny kid running around the hill with the future in his eyes. He met Mom, predicted the Utreian war, and won it with time to spare."

"That's hard to live up to," I said.

"Wrong lesson," she said. "Don't live up to him--live up yourself. I see changes, too. I think a new era is beginning. Alteion had his. It's going to be up to you and me what the next one will be like. Not Alteion."

"So," Petema continued, "Be strong, but be yourself. And remember your family; we'll look out for you."

"Thanks," I said.

"And you look out for us!" She said this very seriously, but her face immediately became carefree again. "I've got to go--good luck finding your Valkyrie, and write to your mother!"

With new optimism, I visited another handful of antiquarians, but my hopes quickly waned. I had no luck in my searches, either of them. I didn't think I'd ever succeed.

Some seer I am. She was waiting in my little turret when I arrived back at the castle.

Belletennares

They call me a hero They call me prophet, the chosen one of god. They tell me, yes, you were right all along. The troubles started, just as you described. You have shown foresight and wisdom, and for that, we place in your command the defense of our nation. They laud my every decision, follow my orders without question. I serve Vanheim as few are ever called to do.

I find no comfort in any of it. I sought responsibilities, not honors. I have foreseen this cusp of history, prepared for it, and led my people to meet it, but I feel as much dread as any of us when I speak the words: the war has begun.

Our little skirmishes with neighboring provinces seeking to evade responsibilities of ancient, and they say forgotten and irrelevant, treaties, are no more than a wisp of smoke to the coming firestorm. Pherios predicted it, and now we have begun to receive reports, travellers' tales, really, of the disintegration of peace across the land.

To the west, Man has dared to take Stone Grave Mountain. The Konella Koreia believes Man's new leader, Selena the Great Enchantress, to be rational, so diplomats have been sent to their land to warn her of the dangers of further encroachment. I hope they are correct, but I fear that someday we will need to remind Man that, though the reputation of their vaunted wardens and foresters and their clever woodcraft is not undeserved, Vanir and Valkyries, too, may pass without being detected by mortal eyes.

There is plague to the north, but that is no surprise from the dead lands. Some days I look around the stony hills of our provinces, not half so green as I remember from my youth, and wonder if it has not already touched us.

In the east, a great red dragon has been sighted flying over the Black Gorge. It is a sign that the lizards rise again. Once we were allies, of a kind--I remember they made a small contribution in the wars with the giants. Some part of me hopes we will again find the lizards to be friendly. I mentioned this to Vethru (I am back in Vanheim for a short time), and he, to my surprise, for I can rarely determine the quarter of his thoughts, agreed. Something about them fascinates him.

Elsewhere, there is little news. The Pythian empire grows again. Their legions march, but not toward us. To the south, Tenecheia (or however their name is rendered; I cannot write their native script) is wracked, they say, by some internal catastrophe, but I can pay little credence to the single tale we've heard from that region.

I must put these reports from my mind. My brother can exercise his intellect upton the contemplation of distant lands, and his son may divine the future. I work in the here and now. Tomorrow I ride for Namor in another wasteful demonstration of the sanctity of treaties forged with Vanheim. Some of the younger men who have just joined us think of this as an opportunity for honor and glory. Tomorrow they may be as wary of glory as I, and learn that honor cannot be hunted.

[quantum_mechani]

The_Tauren13 said:

My policy for yarn writing/rewards will be as follows: I will send out rewards 3 turns after the turn the yarn should have been written. That means on turn 9 I will send the pearls to everyone who wrote a yarn for turn 6. If you have not completed the yarn by that time, you will not receive any pearls for writing it.


Hmm, as I understood it earlier in the thread I could still get the pearls if I filled in the story later? I must admit that takes away the incentive to catch up if most of what I am catching up will already be to late.

[The_Tauren13]

quantum_mechani said:
Hmm, as I understood it earlier in the thread I could still get the pearls if I filled in the story later? I must admit that takes away the incentive to catch up if most of what I am catching up will already be to late.


Truth to tell I just came up with that on the spot, but If you guys had already decided on something else, we can roll with that instead.

[PashaDawg]

Yes. I believe it was agreed that someone would get their reward of pearls whenever they do a yarn (even if late).

[Alneyan]

I'm fine with the current pace of yarning, and would prefer to remove the province names from the screenshots (all names are removed to protect the guilty and all that).