Yet Another Dominions Game - Game Running!

[Ygorl]

I'll be starting up a game on a soon-to-be-vacated Mosehansen slot (www.mosehansen.dk)
Map TBA, but something with a province count of about 150, give or take. Open to discussion, of course.
Here's the deal:
Indies 5
Sites 25%
Rich World
Difficult Research
Graphs On
15 HOF
standard victory conditions
Beginning at 24h quickhost, slowing down as people request it. It would be great if we could start it off as something of a blitz, but that might be completely unrealistic.

One other thing: no alliances.
This rule is, of course, unenforceable, and so a better way to describe it might be "don't trust anyone". If your neighbor says "Let's have a ten-turn NAP", don't be surprised or upset if they attack you four turns later. Don't feel bad, either, if you want to attack them after three.

Who's interested?

Update:
Not just no alliances, we're shooting for no diplomacy of any kind. The map is Desert Eye. We've got ten players, I think... If more folks want to join, we can take them. Those of us who have been too slack to actually pick a nation should do so and post here.
As far as pretenders, I kicked the one anonymous pretender. Unfortunately, this seems to have taken the game out of the Open list (its status is now "Stopped"). This freaks me out; is it okay? Or did I start the game? Alternatively, my computer is on and online something like 98.8% of the time... I could just host it on my machine, open up a TCP/IP port for it; that way, we can run version 16. Disadvantage is we miss out on Esben's nice web interface.
Anyway, once that's taken care of, and everyone's got pretenders, we can start.

Here's the final list of players:
Ygorl - Atlantis
Jurri - Ermor
Azhur - R'lyeh
izaqyos - Pythium
Reverend Zombie - C'tis
Cyborg Moses - Marignon
Catquiet - Pangaea
extramedium - Ulm
DrPraetorius - Jotunheim
GriffinOfBuerrig - Man
Alneyan - Caelum
Bluebird - T'ien Ch'i
Manuk - Vanheim

[Jurri]

I'm in, definitely! And the slot is freed.

How about going one step further with the no alliances thing and go 'gunboat' all the way? That is to say, ban diplomacy of any kind, aside from what your moves can message through. I'm not sure if it would degenerate into bash-the-leader even sooner than normal, though. A wrap-around map would be ideal for this kind of thing.

Also, how about banning blood nations, as low sites and rich world and difficult research all make them relatively more powerful.

[PashaDawg]

Maybe you could name this one after Machiavelli. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Azhur]

I'm in for now.

EDIT: As R'lyeh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jurri]

PashaDawg said:
Maybe you could name this one after Machiavelli. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Sounds about right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Not for the weak of heart and short of temper...

C'mon Pasha, join the fun!

[WraithLord]

I also want in.

I second Jurri and suggest to totaly ban diplomacy.
This of course is unforceble but I feel that playing that way might prove interesting.
How about hiding all the information graphs so that players will tend less to gang against the leader.

I also agree about banning blood nations as they have an advantage in this map.

Anyway, If I was to select a nation I would have taken Pythium.

[Reverend Zombie]

C'tis, please.

[Ygorl]

I set it up on Esben's server just to claim the slot; I chose Desert Eye as the map; 125 provinces, wraparound, seems about right. If anyone wants to suggest a different map, though, I'm all ears.
I think we should leave graphs on; with no diplomacy, "everyone bash the leader" easily becomes "everyone bash the leader except for me - I'll rip up my distracted leader-bashing neighbor's undefended backside".
With graphs off, it's just "everone bash their neighbors", which is a lot more straightforward and less interesting.

If people with more experience than I think a blood-banning is appropriate, we can do that... I wonder if it's really necessary though? We won't see as many massive spells flung around, but with so much income it should be relatively easy to field large squads of mages; also, large armies of more mundane troops should be more supportable. In the amount of time that I imagine this game taking, I don't think the advantage granted to a blood nation by these parameters will be overwhelming. But I could easily be totally wrong...

[PashaDawg]

Jurri said:

PashaDawg said:
Maybe you could name this one after Machiavelli. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Sounds about right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Not for the weak of heart and short of temper...

C'mon Pasha, join the fun!



Nah... but thanks. I have enough games going for now. Plus, you'd probably squish me too quickly for my ego to bear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Jurri]

PashaDawg said:
Plus, you'd probably squish me too quickly for my ego to bear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Aw, don't be like that! Fight the power, man!

In my, albeit limited, experience blood nations benefit from a rich world as they can then satisfy their money needs with fewer provinces. Also, low sites make them relatively more powerful, as the blood supply isn't affected. But what do I know, I've played all of one game with a blood nation.

[Reverend Zombie]

I've loaded my pretender. I hope that is okay...

[PashaDawg]

Jurri said:

PashaDawg said:
Plus, you'd probably squish me too quickly for my ego to bear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Aw, don't be like that! Fight the power, man!




Nah... I am a good sport and always have fun, even when I lose this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif But, this bunny's hopping around in the fresh grass of some other MP games at this time. I will get my revenge someday you Finnish War Meister from the Abyss. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[CyborgMoses]

I would be interested in signing up for this, if you're okay with a first-time player spastically slamming inadequate armies into you periodically. Maybe if I wear a helmet?

[Saber Cherry]

CyborgMoses said:
I would be interested in signing up for this, if you're okay with a first-time player spastically slamming inadequate armies into you periodically. Maybe if I wear a helmet?



Helmet, shmelmet - you can afford to live dangerously when a life is only worth 10 gold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Catquiet]

I'll join as Caelum.

[Saber Cherry]

Hey, that's the Azumanga Daioh cat, if I'm not mistaken!

125 provinces, wrap-around... hmmm... sounds like a nice, neat, small, quick game... err... Alrighty, I'll provisionally claim a spot as Machaka, with Ermor as second choice. I'm pretty ambivalent about nations, though, so if anyone only wants to join if they can play Machaka or Ermor, I'll choose something else.

Unfortunately, I have to retain the right to leave prior to game commencement, because if the game does not start soon (and thus, end before roughly mid-May), I may have plans that would interfere. In other words, blitzing the first 10-15 turns and playing the rest with 24h + quickhost would be ideal for me, though not necessarily necessary. I can blitz pretty much any time.

Zombie and CyborgMoses, please declare and claim your nations, so other people don't get confused... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Lastly - two questions.

1) Will this be the default game (meaning, no mods, even disabling Clams or Wish)?
2) Does "No Diplomacy" mean "No trading gems and items"?

[Jurri]

No Diplomacy = No communication with other players! If you can manage a trade without, go ahead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I don't think wishing/clamming is a problem on this small a map that's wraparound. R'lyeh might, but let him!

I would take Ermor if Cherry doesn't.

[Saber Cherry]

How about a message sent to all players? Like, "Mineral planets are the best!" or "I now have a spy in every Capitol, 9h34r m3"?

[WraithLord]

Joined as Pythium

[Reverend Zombie]

Reverend Zombie said:
C'tis, please.



C'tis hereby claimed and Pretender uploaded.

[thejeff]

If you don't mind another newbie, I'd like to give this a try.

Ulm, I think. Hard research and low sites should help the weak magic kingdom, right?
Or will it just fall even further behind?

[Ygorl]

I'll be back tomorrow to consolidate what we've got so far... Maybe by then it will be enough to start!

[Truper]

Question: Isn't Mosehansen's server still on a previous release of Dom2?

[Reverend Zombie]

Truper said:
Question: Isn't Mosehansen's server still on a previous release of Dom2?



Indeed it is. Which means that I, and anyone else who has uploaded using 2.15, will have to have our Pretenders kicked so we can reload them?

I'll set my C'tis to anonymous now, so I can be kicked.

[Saber Cherry]

What previous version is the server running?

[Reverend Zombie]

2.14

[Saber Cherry]

Does the server ever get taken down for maintenance (like upgrading)? Since 2.16 could be the final patch (though I certainly hope not), now would be a good time...

[CyborgMoses]

Ah, sorry. I'd like to take a shot with Marignon.

[Catquiet]

Someone else has already taken Caelum, so I'll give Pangaea a try.

[WraithLord]

I have updated t0 2.16.

How do I create a 2.14 pretender?

[Jurri]

Saber Cherry said:
How about a message sent to all players? Like, "Mineral planets are the best!" or "I now have a spy in every Capitol, 9h34r m3"?

Now aren't you the feisty one! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif In my opinion the point is preserved only by limiting almost all sorts of communication - to prevent such codes from being used. Although it would be fun deciphering your codes, undoubtedly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

'Bout the version, well, the direct way is to e-mail mose about it. Yeah, that's what I'll do...

[Alneyan]

Your cities shall burn with our vengeful fire! You should be allowed to give the classical message "We declare war upon your unholy nation", if nothing else; even the AI does that!

On the matter of Pretenders, I don't think the version will matter, though there might be a problem with that Pretender whose item slots were changed (Void Lord IIRC); there is no problem with upgrading a game after it has started, so doing the (virtual) opposite should work fine too.

[Reverend Zombie]

With respect to not using the same version of Dominions for this game, please note this information from the 2.16 patch page: "However players participating in multiplayer games should always use the same version or the unfolding of battles will not be displayed correctly."

[Jurri]

If Mose is willing to upgrade it's all the better. If not, then let's go with 2.14: the various versions can coexist peacefully. Only the old .exe is needed, right? That I can attach if need be.

[Jurri]

Oh, and Alneyan, come join! I wanna kick your *** again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alneyan]

Nay, I'm afraid I cannot do TCP/IP games, as my connection sometimes block the ports needed by Dominions (as it happened in the Faerun game, if you recall). I might start a couple of PBEM games however, if you are so keen on being absolutely trashed by my armies of Doom. A handful of hoplites did well against your troops, so an actual army should win the day without breaking a sweat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

There is a problem though: I will be away for two weeks in late June, so I am not sure if starting more games now is such a good idea.

[Ygorl]

Jurri, any word from Esben?
I'll try to do that consolidation thing I mentioned later today...

[Jurri]

None as yet. I propose we start no matter the version as soon as we have enough players. It's no big deal to switch versions even in the middle of the game.

I'm all for a blitz; can't do one until late Sunday (GMT), though.

[Ygorl]

So, I updated the first message in this thread with all the latest. Please, y'all, fill in any holes. I'll work on mine.
Cheers!

[Jurri]

Put me down for Ermor! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif

[CyborgMoses]

I don't seem to be seeing any option to sign into the game at Mosehansen's site, or to upload a pretender. Where do I do this?

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

I would like to join(best Marigion), if anyone could sent the the Infos where to connect with which version... this would be great:)

[Ygorl]

Yeah... I will need to restart the game there. Sorry to all who already uploaded pretenders. So, from now on, please everyone only upload when you're sure you're done and you've already claimed the nation in this thread. Thanks!
Griffin, I believe someone's already taken Marignon. Check the first post in this thread for details.

Restarted. Upload away, folks!

[CyborgMoses]

Er... how would I revert to version 2.14, incidentally?

[Ygorl]

You can get the 2.14 patch by replacing the 216 in the URL for the 2.16 updater with a 214. Apply that patch to the version of the game on the install CD. That's it!

Also, we've got folks joined as Arcoscephale and Abysia... Who are they?

[Jurri]

Or if re-installing is too much of a hassle, you might try with this dom214.exe. That way you only need one copy of the game on HD and can play with various versions. Just make your shortcuts refer to the right version .exe and it's pretty convenient.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Hey, that trick works!

Oh, at www.mosehansen.dk (http://www.mosehansen.dk) the server looks strange... can anyone tell me which slot is still free and can be used by me?

Thanks

[thejeff]

I don't know about Arcosephale, but Abyssia is my fault. I clicked it accidently while uploading Ulm.

I hope that doesn't mean it has to be restarted again.

Sorry

[WraithLord]

Could someone be kind enough to send me a copy of the 2.14 .exe

my email is izaqyos@gmail.com

TIA

[Jurri]

I'll send it to ya!

EDIT: It seems to bounce the mail. I dunno what's up, someone else try? Or just d/l the attachement from the topmost post of this page.

[CyborgMoses]

Ah, excellent. Thanks for the help.

Right, I'm loaded up and ready to go.

[DrPraetorious]

I've joined as Jotunheim. Let me be the first to say: "not the face!". That is all.

[DrPraetorious]

Do my pathetic pleas for mercy count as "diplomacy"?

[Ygorl]

Not as long as they're nonverbal:
"whimper" is okay
"don't attack me, attack Atlantis instead" is likely to get you dogpiled.

Anyway, looks like most people have uploaded. A few things:
Saber Cherry, are you going to play, or is it too chancy for you?
izaqyos, could you please claim Pythium on Esben's server? Otherwise you'll be kicked when I start the game, and that would make us all sad.
Who is Arcoscephale? Post here and claim your nation on Esben's server, else you too will be booted. Griffin? Is it you? If not, best upload yourself a nation and identify yourself here and at mosehansen.dk
Cheers all!
With luck and dedication, we should be ready to start very soon. We can also discuss a time when we might blitz, to get the game moving quickly.

[WraithLord]

Please wait for me to upload a 2.14 pretender.
I will do so this evening.

[WraithLord]

Jurri said:
I'll send it to ya!

EDIT: It seems to bounce the mail. I dunno what's up, someone else try? Or just d/l the attachement from the topmost post of this page.



I made a little test.
It seems that google mail bounces .exe files.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Hola, i am now in as Man.

[Saber Cherry]

Ygorl said:
Saber Cherry, are you going to play, or is it too chancy for you?



I'll play. Don't worry, I came up with a cunning plan, so I'll win fast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I suggest nobody build clams, fetishes, or Soul Contracts, as they won't have time to pay off. Bwahaha!!!

Hint: It involves not building any Machaka Militia. Or maybe I'm just trying to trick everyone... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jurri]

izaqyos said:

Jurri said:
I'll send it to ya!

EDIT: It seems to bounce the mail. I dunno what's up, someone else try? Or just d/l the attachement from the topmost post of this page.



I made a little test.
It seems that google mail bounces .exe files.

Hohum, it seems to bounce a zip-attachement too. (Since that was my first thought, google being over-protective http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) It could be my mail-service, too, it's not very professional either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh, and regarding this:

Please wait for me to upload a 2.14 pretender.
I will do so this evening.

I think Mose's server sues the first pretender uploaded to a given spot, not allowing overwrites. Hence you need to be kicked... Then again, the version matters little with most if not all Pythium pretenders, as far as I know.

Here's hoping that you get these things sorted out! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I don't remember what version I was using when I designed this pretender - I thought it was the same for versions 2.12 and up. Is that wrong?

[Alneyan]

I will *try* to get in the game, if it isn't too late. With a bit of luck, TCP/IP will work fine for me, for now at least. Now, what nation should I play... I would have picked T'ien Ch'i, but I don't think they would work out too well, so Man it will be. Let me think of a Pretender, and I will jump in the bandwagon.

Bah, Man has been taken as well. I guess I will settle for Caelum then, though I am not too fond of them (don't worry, I don't know how to play Caelum). I am in as Caelum, with a Pretender having an odd name given its gender. Well, Caelite grammar has always been odd.

[Bluebird]

I joined as Mictlan ...

[thejeff]

The server doesn't overwrite pretenders? Even when it says it does?

Then I guess Ulm should be kicked too. It's a 2.16 pretender which shouldn't make too much difference, but I also made a few tweaks on the 2.14 version.

Newbie mistakes. I'll get over them quickly.

[Saber Cherry]

I don't think I've ever played such a packed game... I bet 5 nations will be dead (or have besieged capitols) by turn 15. It's hard to design a pretender than can survive or dominate the early game without running into problems later on. Normally, I just plan for a strong midgame.

[Ygorl]

Well, it should be a brutal game. That's sort of the goal. Less hoarding, less turtling, more blood.
Now, a question for all of you. Is there some way to kick players _without_ starting the game?
Otherwise, I can just recreate the game and everyone can re-upload (again).
Any words of advice from the experienced game-wranglers out there?

[quantum_mechani]

Is this game still going to have a blitz start? If so, I'm considering joining...

[Alneyan]

The blitz start was more a hope I guess: " It would be great if we could start it off as something of a blitz, but that might be completely unrealistic. " I simply don't see how a blitz would work with a nearly full house, and players likely spread around the world.

Caelum should also be kicked (or the game restarted) if possible, as my Pretender just looks awful considering the kind of game we will be playing. That, and with the nice flashing target I have on my back, I will probably not have the opportunity of playing the submarine.

[CyborgMoses]

Yeah, Silent Hill has... sort of an odd time zone. At any rate, it sounds as though all that needs to be done is for Caelum and Ulm to reset, izaqyos to register Pythium as him, and Abysia and Arcoscephale to be kicked as dead.

[Alneyan]

By the way, I have uploaded my Pretender file, in case I am away when Caelum and Ulm get kicked (so I don't delay the game). If it is after 2100 GMT, I will not be here, so could someone upload my file in this case? That should ensure you don't have to wait until 1000 GMT before the game starts.

The Pretender is available here: http://sejalie.chez.tiscali.fr//caelum.2h It looks like you will have to copy-paste the URL into another window though; following the link directly won't work (error 403).

Thanks,
Alneyan

[Ygorl]

Unfortunately, I can't kick individual players; my only option is "kick all anonymous and restart" which has the unfortunate side-effect of starting the game.
Unless I'm missing something.
So, I think I have to kill the game, re-create it, and have everyone re-upload. I'll wait a little bit to see if someone chimes in with some better advice, and then I'll do that.
This time, please upload *carefully* so that it can be the last time we have to do it.
Thanks!

[Jurri]

Wooty woot woot! Esben says he's upgraded the server to 2.16!

Don't know if the "kick anonymous and restart" actually starts the game... You could test it, if it does then bury it and create a new one and if not then all the better. Or just kill it and make a new one, if we want to be sure that the version-hassle won't cause any problems.

[Ygorl]

A couple days ago I did the kick anonymous and restart dance, and it did in fact start the game.
I'll just restart it now.
I'll also upload Alneyan's pretender.
Everyone else, please finalize your pretender and then upload, and then we'll go.

[thejeff]

Looks like I'm going to be away next weekend. Probably Thursday morning to Monday night. I don't know how fast this game is likely to move; I could well be dead by then if the first turns go fast enough, but that seems like a pretty large chunk of time that early in the game.

I could drop out, try to find someone here to sub for a few turns, or beg to stall for the weekend.

What do people think? This sounds like a fun, if brutal game, but I'm willing to pass if it'll cause a hassle.

[Bluebird]

Hmm ... which game where? The game in mosehansen.dk is stopped ...

[Ygorl]

GAH!
I don't know. I can't seem to create a game that isn't immediately "stopped". I'll let things rest on the server for a little bit, then I'll try again. If that doesn't work, I'll write Esben.
Sorry for all the delays, everyone. Soon, soon...

[Azhur]

Bad news.. I'm away from Saturday to Monday. Try to get the game open today, and if it's possible, put a 72h host at the beginning. I know that's a lot to be asked for, especially when we were expecting an early blizt.

So if this is too much trouble for you, I'm willing to stay out of this game.

[Bluebird]

Ok - here is the deal ... I have set up a server on my server with the same setup as announced above. This is the first time I host a game, but I am doing my very best ;-)

The server can be reached at host 'in-zueri.ch' port '2332'. If Ygorl is ok with it, we can move to this server and play there. You can already start uploading your pretenders, but I want to get Ygorl's ok first before I 'steal' his game.

[Ygorl]

I talked to Esben, got the server difficulties worked out. We are now all set to use his server.
I vote, with all due thanks to Bluebird (danke!), that we use the mosehansen server, since it's got nifty web-based and Jabber-based reporting.
The game is up!

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Wohoo, i am in!

[Reverend Zombie]

Jurri said:
Wooty woot woot! Esben says he's upgraded the server to 2.16!




So do we all now need to create and re-load 2.16 Pretenders??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Jurri]

Yeah, re-upload. And it won't hurt to remake the pretender in 2.16 either, although it shouldn't really be necessary. And do claim the gods also, there are currently 6 anonymous http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Surely we can accomodate Azhur's schedule, no?

[Saber Cherry]

Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to have to bow out of this game... between my other game starting to have increasingly long turns and final exams approaching, I think it would be unwise. Thus, Machaka is open. It's too bad, since I was eager to try my god - a bless-strategy supercombattant that's not an Earth Mother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It seems to me that immobiles are useless, at least for Machaka. In all my calculations of point spendage there was always something that came out better... and I really wanted to choose one, just for something new and different. I guess it's partly because Astral is a worthless blessing for Machaka, since even Astral-10 spiders have 9 MR which is not enough to protect them from anything... unless you cast mass magic resistance on them, which immobile pretenders cannot do.

Have fun!

And again,

Machaka is now open

[Bluebird]

All right, I will shut down my server - was just a possibility to get this game running fast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

BTW ... Tien Ch'i was still free, right? Anybody minds if I switch? Mictlan is stupid on an overcrowded map.

[DrPraetorious]

If Saber Cherry isn't playing, then I'll be Machaka instead of Niefelheim.

I'm going to be out of town for several days a week during much of May (maybe if I get a new laptop I can install the client on that....), but maybe we can fit a blitz inbetween when azhur gets back and I have to leave.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

So hurry up folks, i am hot to play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Reverend Zombie]

I have re-loaded Pretender (C'tis), and am ready to go!

[Ygorl]

Everyone needs to claim their pretenders on mosehansen.dk
Once that happens, I will kick any remaining anonymous players and start the game!

[extramedium]

I'd like to join in. I'll see if I can figure out how to go about it. Okay, I think I joined as ulm.

[Alneyan]

Welcome board! The procedure to join the game is as follow: create a Pretender for one of the nations not claimed in this thread (well, good luck figuring out *what* nations aren't claimed), and go into the Network screen. There, type in www.mosehansen.dk (http://www.mosehansen.dk) as IP, and 2202 as port. Upload your Pretender, do not click on Start Game, and register on https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl Once you have done that, find the Machiaveli woohoo game, and claim your nation there (Confess => That's me).

[DrPraetorious]

Changed my mind again, I will be jotunheim.

[Manuk]

I will Join as Vanheim if it´s ok.

[DrPraetorious]

Lower the site frequency all the way to 25 and nobody is playing the two main blood positions? This is highly unusual.

[Ygorl]

Maybe, but the game might be so fast and brutal that there may not be much of an opportunity to establish a solid blood economy.

Anyway, we need to wait for izaqyos, Azhur, and extramedium to claim their pretenders on the mosehansen.dk web site, and then I'll start. Azhur won't be back until tomorrow, so hopefully tomorrow evening the game will be off!

[Saber Cherry]

DrPraetorious said:
Lower the site frequency all the way to 25 and nobody is playing the two main blood positions? This is highly unusual.



You mean, "The other two?" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Unless you're still playing Niefelheim, Jotunheim is a very strong blood player, better than Abysia if you get lucky hag picks. Non-blood hags are always useful anyway.

[DrPraetorious]

On a rich game-world I find that I don't want to use four turns of hero production to make a single bloodpick, and without the ice giants I'll simply be killed. Skratti make perfectly satisfactory (if overpriced) blood hunters.

I'm continuing to vacilate. I love the tarantula knights so much - am I making the wrong decision?

[Ygorl]

Play one here, and the other in another! No need for vacillation when you can have oscillation.

[Azhur]

Got back home and R'lyeh now claimed.

[Ygorl]

Make sure you claim your own pretender the first time you log in to the game... anyway, we're finally underway!
Yeehaw!

[Manuk]

There´s plenty of us here, wow!

[Bluebird]

Well - it took 7 pages in the forum to get the game started http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jurri]

The very first stale! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif What's up, pray tell?

[DrPraetorious]

With this many people it's not all surprising that some of them can't really play, for on reason or another.

If they miss two consecutive turns without some comment on the forum, I vote: boot 'em.

[CyborgMoses]

Er, I'm seeing on Mosehansen's site that the game is on turn three, but my client insists that it's still turn one, and won't let me play further.

[Alneyan]

We are indeed on turn 3; it has run around 1000/1100 GMT. Not sure why you cannot get the current turn.

On an aside, you shouldn't be all too worried about Caelum in this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (Let's just say I made a blunder. Again. I will play in the game regardless, as I love challenges and odd situations. And I should keep that lesson in mind for any future game)

[CyborgMoses]

Aha! I figured out what I was doing wrong; I assumed that I would automatically connect to the server when I went to play the new turn, but I guess I have to do it manually.

[Jurri]

Indeed! You might want to peruse for example this post (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=325347) for a proper primer on technicalities and tricks. Or I might just rip the useful part which adds to your convenience like nothing else:


Alneyan summarized (with the port number changed to match this game...):
- Keeping the address (IP and port) of several games: only the IP and the port of the game you played Last is kept in the game, so you may prefer to use a shortcut to directly connect to the game instead. To do so, create a shortcut of your Dom2.exe, and add the following in the Target line: --ipadr [IP of the server] --port XXXX. Double-clicking on the shortcut will then allow you to connect directly to the particular game when hitting "Connect to a Dominions server", without having to type the IP and the port every time.

For example, your Target line could be something like: C:\dominions2\dom2.exe --ipadr dom2.mosehansen.dk --port 2202

Thank you, Alneyan, for sparing me the trouble! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ygorl]

You need to hit the game from the "network" tab when a new turn hosts. If you do "end turn" while connected, it uploads your turn and you don't have to worry. If you do one of the "quit" options, you will still have the turn downloaded onto your computer. Anything you do from the "play an existing game" option will be saved on your computer, and uploaded to the server the next time you connect.
So, in summary, two things:
1) you must be connected to the server (via "network" option) to upload a turn
2) your turn is automatically uploaded (and marked as "done" for the purposes of quickhosting) as soon as you connect (after the connection in which you downloaded the turn).
You can play your turns in one sitting, connected via "network", and finish with "end turn". You can also work on the turn locally, via "play an existing game", and your changes will be automatically uploaded next time you connect (via "network").
I sort of repeated myself a lot, but it's not very intuitive and I am writing stream-of-consciousness. I hope it made things clear for everyone...

[Bluebird]

I think we should not mind stalls too much, but just keep the 24h cycle. 1 turn per day is sufficient, though perhaps a little slow for the start.

[Ygorl]

Got a message from Ulm that he won't be able to play... He was bummed and apologetic. I'll set him to AI next time I get the chance.
-edit-
we might be able to work through his issues. Fingers are crossed.

[CyborgMoses]

Ah, thanks for the help, all. Useful stuff.

[Jurri]

Ygorl said:
we might be able to work through his issues. Fingers are crossed.

Keep us posted, won't ya? Hopefully things can be worked out! If not, at least I won't object to a summary AIzation once it's clear. The good Doctor had a swell formula for the purpose...

[Manuk]

Is Ulm still stalling?

if he is, can he be turned to AI?

[Ygorl]

He needed to reinstall, but he needs to get his key from his brother before he can actually run the game (he's in Sweden right now, and doesn't have his manual with him). So we're just waiting for his brother to remember to send him the code. Hopefully, should be very soon.

[DrPraetorious]

I hate to be a dick about it, but the game has been going for over a week now.... even if he manages to get the install in order, he'll be coming in at turn 8 or 9 in a very crowded game.

[Jurri]

Hohum, I'd like to take this opportunity to quote a great man:

Ygorl said:
Not just no alliances, we're shooting for no diplomacy of any kind.

Just a remainder, guys... I'll send an in-game message to the same effect to everyone, just in case the thread isn't observed by all.

[Manuk]

Hey, how could I grab mercenaries? I thought they were all for Izaquios.

[WraithLord]

Manuk said:
Hey, how could I grab mercenaries? I thought they were all for Izaquios.


MUAHAHAHA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (We give our mercaneries stock plans... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

I'm playing many MP games and I forgot that this one is with no diplomacy.
As a result I've sent messages to Caelum and Ermor.
I request that they disregard my messages.
I won't send any more messages in this game.

[WraithLord]

Manuk, are you also a member of the AOW heaven forums?

muchas gracias por los mercenarios http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Manuk]

yes I am, thank you for introduce me to Dominions.

But I do not pay AOW in multiplay right now, just Dom2.

Fishes don´t know about stock plans, thankfully

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

I say we make Ulm AI. I do not make sense to start playing a nation after 7 turns of stale!

[Jurri]

Wonder what I was on yesterday... must have been good!

[DrPraetorious]

There are already wars flaring - Ulm has zero chance. Turn it AI.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

AI AI AI AI!! Now now now!

[Ygorl]

Alas for poor extramedium... Let's see what the computer can do with 3000 gold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

You should have forwarded that money to Tien Chi before going to AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ygorl]

Wait, I thought I had? Maybe I slipped and clicked on Atlantis by accident.

[Ygorl]

I'm going to be out of town for several days... It's possible but unlikely that I'll have access. I'm going to set the game to a long-period quickhost. I could just stale, but that seems much less fun from my entirely unbiased perspective.
I'll be back on the 11th or the 12th in any case.
Thanks for your patience!

[Jurri]

No worries from me... I'm such a simple guy that I don't mind even large amounts of pauses as long as I know the reason.

Just staling is a poor choice in any case... No fun for anyone.

[Bluebird]

Very nice - I have to deliver a paper on the 10th. So perhaps I will make it this time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[WraithLord]

Thursday May 12 is Israel's independence day.
hence I will not be able the send turns on Thursday and Friday , 12-13/05.

Can you please postpone hosting for these days.

sorry for the delay guys.

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

Hossa, next turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ygorl]

Yes, I am back, with signs and wonders!
I'll put it back to 24-hour on Saturday, so that izaqyos doesn't feel left out.

[Ygorl]

Another thing I should mention. If you're feeling lost and hopeless, your candles burning dim and your last fortress overpowered, rather than just not bothering to log in it would be really nice if you'd go AI. This way, everyone who is still in the game doesn't have to wait for the full 24 hours to expire between turns.
Thanks!

[Bluebird]

By world, it was a nice, crowded game ... perhaps I should now read "Small Gods" from Terry Pratchett ...

Barnt of T'ien Ch'i

[WraithLord]

Bluebird said:
By world, it was a nice, crowded game ... perhaps I should now read "Small Gods" from Terry Pratchett ...

Barnt of T'ien Ch'i



I didn't understand why you didn't use your virtue as SC vs. vanheim invasion.
Anyway they (van) sure have applied much force against you.
Their armies are deadly indeed...

I would reccomend "song of ice & fire" if you didn't read it by now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Alneyan]

Got to wonder why I got blasted. I mean, I only picked a Green Dragon, Dominion 1, no scales, and Return of the Raptor theme. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Looks like I took great care in backing up my Pretender... but I backed the test Pretender.

Still, I don't think I would have done much better with a genuine Pretender. My Seraphs have been unable to take weakly defended enemy provinces. *Grumbles* The birdies are so feeble.

[The Panther]

Return of the Raptors might be the worst theme in the game. It takes a very powerful nation and turns it into one of the worst ones.

It makes the mages weaker and significantly more expensive. The Seraph inexplicitly goes from 100 gold to 140 for the Raptors. True, the Harab Seraph is only 90 gold, but it is nowhere near as good as the regular Seraph. The sacred Harab Elder is not bad at 270 gold, other than the lack of a random and the fact that it is capitol only. Which means there are exactly ZERO random magic schools in the whole theme! They even took away the wonderful, cheap Seraphine! Heck, the Raptors theme cannot even clam hoard very easily. And for compensation? It adds a couple of troops that are not worth buying, the Raptor and the Raven Guard. Big deal.

It is hard to believe that the developers thought this theme was a good thing...

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:
Return of the Raptors might be the worst theme in the game. It takes a very powerful nation and turns it into one of the worst ones.

It makes the mages weaker and significantly more expensive. The Seraph inexplicitly goes from 100 gold to 140 for the Raptors. True, the Harab Seraph is only 90 gold, but it is nowhere near as good as the regular Seraph. The sacred Harab Elder is not bad at 270 gold, other than the lack of a random and the fact that it is capitol only. Which means there are exactly ZERO random magic schools in the whole theme! They even took away the wonderful, cheap Seraphine! Heck, the Raptors theme cannot even clam hoard very easily. And for compensation? It adds a couple of troops that are not worth buying, the Raptor and the Raven Guard. Big deal.

It is hard to believe that the developers thought this theme was a good thing...



I remember reading a thread long ago in which veteran players analyzed this theme.
They presented some ways to make this theme useful.
Sadly, I don't remember the actual arguments.

[DrPraetorious]

While we're recommending books - you can't really appreciate Dominions until you've read the Oath of Empire books by Thomas Harlan. Dominions absolutely needs an Ermor theme that rips of those books more explicitly.

[Jurri]

Here's Jurri, your favorite broken record (in top ten for three weeks and running) just to post a reminder for those of us with more than one game in the works:
/threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif

Ygorl said:
Not just no alliances, we're shooting for no diplomacy of any kind.


/threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Has R'lyeh been staleing? If so, comp-him.

[WraithLord]

Reminder.
No diplomacy includes no in-game messages.

I really enjoy this game as my turns take half the time as in other games since I don't have to invest so much time in diplomacy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
-------------------------------------------

Never read Oath of the Empire. is it good?

[Ygorl]

I was about to AIofy R'lyeh, but I think he actually took a turn or two over the weekend.
Did I misread things? If so, I'll stick him on AI right now...

[DrPraetorious]

No in-game messages, or no in-game *diplomatic* messages?

Surely, threats, gloating and unfocused ranting are okay?

[Ygorl]

My feeling is that threats, gloating, and unfocused ranting are okay as long as they don't actually provide any information about the game.
"I will destroy you all!" is probably fine, as is "Mineral planets are the best!"
"Wow, Mictlan just took a pounding" is no good, though, as would be any sort of conditional threat.
Since there's such a fuzzy line, it might be best to refrain from messages altogether. We can gloat or moan here when we're divine or dead.
Dogs be free!

[Manuk]

Sorry, I was just complaining.
so...
"I will destroy you all!"
will be better...

[WraithLord]

Manuk said:
Sorry, I was just complaining.
so...
"I will destroy you all!"
will be better...


I just want to say I admire how Vanheim fends off it's enemies.
Great play!

[Ygorl]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Manuk]

Probably Vans are too good to be true.

70 gold is not that high since a Van have a decent defence and glamour helps there too.
They are fast and what they have lacking is damage what I resolve with a fire 9 blessing when the circle is complete making an all around unit.
Einheres are good too to make a bulk. Commanders are lacking because to get a priest level 2 is to expensive and so to use them as mages.

Dwarves are OK. I like them.

The moloch is superb as artillery and he comes with free imps who help a lot.

[Ygorl]

My first multiplayer game was with Vanheim, and I was amazed at how powerful they were.
I had a Moloch with fire9 and water9 - those Vans were amazing... A handful could clean out any PD you wanted cleaned.

[DrPraetorious]

I have reawoken the Rimtursar, securing the rapid demise of all the wretched peoples of the world, as well as their petty idols. Your end will be painful; I offer the prospect that it may be swift or lingering. The end of days is upon you! Naught but blood and icy damnation awaits the whole of the world!

p.s. abandon all hope, also, for it is a delusion.
p.p.s. bend over, the lords of the icy north come for you.

[Manuk]

Dr., thanks for this cold winter. We like it.

[CyborgMoses]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's see how your precious Rimtursar fare when they've got more crossbow quarrels than flesh in their bodies.

[Manuk]

No diplomacy includes no NAP. Just in case that anyone has tought of doing so.

/threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif

[Jurri]

Wouldn't it be sorta hard to make a NAP without communication? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Here's a couple of moves that would be technically ok but very un-sportsman-like:
-Name your god 'Machaka! NAP until 30!' or similar.
-Name your prophet 'Send gold first: slaves sold 15g per' or in the same vein. Kill your prophet and you can do it again.
-Rename scouts with diplomatic messages and suicide them on the receiver of choice. (Heck, I could name my scouts Entente Cordiale and most wouldn't even blink... But Alneyan would sure know what I want when the scout comes trashing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Here's another, not as severe:
-Send gems for somebody. What would you do if Mictlan sent you 5 fire gems? If he sent you 1 gem a turn? I would think twice before attacking him, since then he presumably wouldn't send the gem. Also, quite possibly if Mictlan sent me gems out of the blue I might send him back gems or money, in the hopes of it happening again. This could of course not work, too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Combine the two: Name your prophet 'Send me slaves for these gems!' and send Abysia a couple piles of gems. Gets the message through, undoubtedly.

...yeah. I wouldn't appreciate tricks such as these, although the house rule doesn't strictly speaking ban them: after all, sending stuff is hardly diplomacy if no reason is given, right? And if you have a burning need to name your prophet 'Everyone dogpile Mictlan!', that's your business, no?

I play this one with the thought that you are all AIs to me.* Makes for a good attitude in many ways, since whoever complained when AIs banged him seemingly in concert, and who did ever want to send anything to AIs? (Aside from Gandalf who if memory serves sends herald lances to enemies of Ermor... Now don't anyone get any funny ideas! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

*Top that as a slur! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Alneyan]

You cannot give a specific name to your Pretender, as everyone else will see it, and they would probably complain. The same goes for the Prophet, though the idea about the scout is nice enough. Next time, switch renaming off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Note, however, that naming your scout "Entente Cordiale" is unlikely to work: anyone from England would likely get the meaning of the name, and both entente and cordial can be used in English. Naming your scouts "Auld" should work better though... but it is not good enough. You should just look up examples appropriate to the history of the receiver, slightly alter the name, and that ought to work well... perhaps too well though.

[Jurri]

Not the complaints, but the resulting dogpile... Since if it's not against the rules complaints are but hot air for one who uses such tricks, right? It's against the spirit nevertheless, even with the scout and coded message.

What's entente cordiale called in French, then? Is there an expression for it? And what's 'Auld' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif (Oh, the shame... I deserve laughs and worse!)

[Alneyan]

Jurri said:
Not the complaints, but the resulting dogpile... Since if it's not against the rules complaints are but hot air for one who uses such tricks, right? It's against the spirit nevertheless, even with the scout and coded message.



Me no get the point; I cannot figure out what you mean, and even if you paid me real well... I still wouldn't get it. Must be the heat.

Entente cordiale is the same name in French, but I think it may be a bit less common. The Auld Alliance is the name given to the alliance made by Scotland and France against the perfidious Albion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (Auld is a Scottish word which should mean... well, "old, ancient")

[Jurri]

Aha, isn't this nice, two dudes, neither of which is a native English speaker discussing stuff. Learn Finnish, you, so I can express myself with more clarity! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

What I tried to do is point out the dichotomy between playing by the rules and playing by the spirit of game. Arguably anything not banned by the rules is allowed (within the framework of the game, of course), so for a true hard-core player intent on taking advantage of this loop-hole the problem is not in the complaints that follow, but in the dogpile that follows the complaints (this assuming the other players are willing put their foot to where their mouth is, err, their money I mean.) Yeah, real relevant...

Ach, you shamed me with a fond abbreviation! Dude, that's DIRTY! (And funny, if you can get the meaning from just 'Auld'. Well, me not getting it only proves your point, I guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Do they use that abbreviation in France a lot?)

[Alneyan]

Auld Alliance is, near as I can tell, a strictly English term. I do not know how the alliance is labelled in French... though I seem to recall reading a literal translation of the phrase.

It is not an abbreviation however, but merely a cunning way of getting a point accross with limited odds of being caught doing diplomacy. See, if you used the full name "Auld Alliance", everybody would see it is an alliance; on the other hand, a spy name like Auld might be mistaken as a genuine scout name, or even a name like "Mauldarie" (Marignon), "Mauldaska" (Machaka), and so on.

Of course, it might be such an effective way of hiding your schemes that nobody will get the point... including the intended recipient. I guess we will have to develop scouts named "Roger" (a proper Marignonese name) just to avoid that.

The only Finnish I know of is Suomi; everything besides that is beyond my understanding. I find that Finnish is quite different from most European languages too: while Välkommen till Sverige can be understood easily, the similar sentence in Finnish is another matter. I cannot find it again though... *Curses Google*

[Ygorl]

AI surely would have cast Burden of Time by now. Anybody? Anybody?

[Jurri]

Ah, C'tis always does that. Reverend, get to it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think, if Auld Alliance isn't generally referred to as Auld within the target audience it would be lost to others than me. The first thing that comes to mind is invariably Auld Lang Syne. If you named your prophet Auld Alliance, you might get a funny look or two but I don't think many would consider it a breach. If going by the scout route there's little need for code... In theory someone could spy the battle but that's about it. That, too, could be avoided by using assassins instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif There's also the problem of getting the recipient to check the name of the scout, come to think of it...

Finnish is one of the most difficult languages in the world. It's part of the Fenno-Ugrian family, whereas most European languages are Germanic or Romanic, which explains in part why it's so freaky. Oh, and y'all: Tervetuloa Suomeen!

[CyborgMoses]

Erm... How, precisely, does one kill Niefel Giants? I'm kind of at a loss here.

[Ygorl]

I was playing Niefelheim once and made the mistake of attacking Machaka. They get flaming arrows as a national spell. I was massacred.
Also you could just hide and hope they go away.

[edit]
Whoops. They get "Blindness" for free. They had researched the arrows. In any case, the result was the same: Niefel Kabobs.

[Alneyan]

A Scot should have no problem understanding the meaning of Auld, coming from a Frenchman. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It needs to be tailored to the nationality of the receiver, however. I don't know what I would tell you to let you know I want an alliance with you... the only Finnish word that springs to mind is Koskenkorva, and that isn't exactly synonymous with alliance. Granted, if I offer you a drink, it means I want to be friendly, but still... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

From where comes Finnish? Germanic and Roman languages are usually grouped under the "Indo-European" label, along with other languages, and Finnish is not part of that vast family. Is there a similar "grandfather" for Finnish? I cannot say I have checked those Indo-European roots though: I can only go back as far as Greek.

[Jurri]

Finnish is a Uralic language. You know, the Language tree with Fenno-Ugrian (or is it Ugric? it eludes me) and Samoyed branches. (Samoyed languages being used by certain minorities in Russia. Fenno-Ugrian languages are mostly encountered in Russia, too. The main exceptions being Finland, the Baltic countries and Hungary.)

[Ygorl]

Ugric, I think. But then I learned it "Finno-Ugric" and the Finn says Fenn, so my sources may be suspect.
Is it all the Baltic countries, or just Estonia?
Also, Turkish is related.
I think they originated in East Asia, maybe somewhere around Mongolia, and migrated westward.

[WraithLord]

I will not be able to take turns on the next Saturday (June, 4).
Can you please postpone the hosting to Sunday?

[DrPraetorious]

There are small minorities in the other baltic countries that speak such languages, but the Baltic languages (incl Lithuanian and Lettish) are indo-european, although not quite slavic - about as closely related to Russian as German and Latin.

[WraithLord]

I see that the game is scheduled to host in 133h.
don't know if it's on my behalf, but surely it's better then staling...

I will do the turn in the next few hours anyway.

thanks.

[Ygorl]

I wasn't sure if you needed it paused from now until the fifth, or just on the fourth to the fifth. I figured I'd stick it on a slow quickhost and either way it would be fine. If everyone's okay with it, I'll return it to a 24-hour quickhost on Sunday.

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, could we go back to a 24 hr quickhost on Monday evening (eastern time, US)?

[Ygorl]

No problem, Doctor.

[Jurri]

I'll take your word for it being Finno-Ugric, Ygorl. I learned this stuff in Finnish, and my construction is just conjencture. Fenno- is the usual prefix, as in Fenno-American.

Altaic languages (like Turkish) are in some ways similar to the Uralic ones, but they are not part of the same family. Indeed, Turkish and Japanese are probably closer to each other than Finnish and Turkish. The Uralic-Altaic family was never generally accepted, if memory serves.

For the Uralic family the origin is unclear, apparently it was West of the Ural mountain range, in any case.

[Ygorl]

I just did a bunch of reading about the history of languages. It's nifty how educational this game is!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jurri]

So what's with 'Moses? I don't see him being the one asking for more time. It's been three days already since last turn.

[CyborgMoses]

What about me, now? I thought we were waiting on izaqyos and Dr. Praetorius. Am I supposed to be doing something?

Oh, I guess the turn ran after all. Sorry about that.

[WraithLord]

I am back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The game is heating up I'd say (or rather cooling down...)

[DrPraetorious]

I have also returned, just in time to violate your corpses.

[WraithLord]

It's like twenty turns or something that Pythium is skirmishing with Vanheim.
Each of the last turns seems to me like an endless cycle, a macabre ritual of death and destruction that gains absolutely nothing.
I'm not posting this message to suggest in anyway that this stop. This war will continue till one side is conquered, or forever for all I know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I just wanted to cry out in frustration http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif, mixed with the joy of facing such a worthy adevrsary.

quero saludarte, en tu propia lengua, oh dios de vanheim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Manuk]

gracias izaqyos te saludaria en tu lengua

but i dont have a clue.

regarding the game i hardly have a chance. But i sure have a lot of frags. (sneaky spells you are playing).

[Manuk]

Good game. you have a strong army and im besieged by undead too. With this victory you have won it, Izaqyos.

its you and ermor

[WraithLord]

Manuk said:
Good game. you have a strong army and im besieged by undead too. With this victory you have won it, Izaqyos.

its you and ermor



You faced impossible odds in this two fronted, yet you gave a great fight. At the end I think it was just a matter of attrition that decided matters.

If I'm not mistaken Atlantis, Marignon and Jotunheim are still in the game. So it's probably going to be a fun end game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

BTW
I still didn't understand what was your reasoning for attacking me after you've conquered tien chi. Had I been in your place I'd probably find a weaker nation to conquer and hope that Pythium and Ermor fight each other.

[Jurri]

Hey, Izaq, let's not go down that route just yet. I'm sure after the game is a more appropriate time for a discussion on that; We wouldn't want anyone gleaning information from an analysis.

Also, it's easy to be influenced by any sort of evaluations, so why not let everyone decide for themselves whether they 'are' or not?

That said, I completely detest quitting a nation that's about the fourth or so in most graphs. Very poor manners, no matter how big a battle you lost. (Indeed, I didn't even know you had a big battle; see how this is already turning into something with diplomatical value.) When I said that you're like AIs to me, I certainly didn't mean that I will quit whenever I damn well please!

[DrPraetorious]

Moses seems to be stale-ing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ygorl]

I just sent a PM to ask what the story is...

[Manuk]

Jurri, shut up

[WraithLord]

Jurri said:
Hey, Izaq, let's not go down that route just yet. I'm sure after the game is a more appropriate time for a discussion on that; We wouldn't want anyone gleaning information from an analysis.

Also, it's easy to be influenced by any sort of evaluations, so why not let everyone decide for themselves whether they 'are' or not?



You are correct of course. Habits are a hard thing to break though.
I will keep what you said in mind and avoid such discussions for now.

[Jurri]

I'm quite the killjoy, ain't I? Sorry guys!

'Moses says here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=358334) that he doesn't have a net connection. Beats me why he doesn't bother to inform us!

[Ygorl]

So, for those who are left... Should we wait (an unknown amount) for him, or put him AI?

[Jurri]

Apparently he's not interested enough to even inform us of his absence, so I see no point in waiting. Hence I vote for summary AIzation.

[CyborgMoses]

Heya, folks. Sorry I didn't have a chance to post about my absence here as well, but the library closed right after I posted in the Faerun thread. At any rate, I'm hoping to be back up shortly, but can't guarantee it. If the game could be paused for a couple days, that would be much appreciated. I'll send Ygorl my password for in case anyone would care to substitute for me for a bit.

[Ygorl]

I sure don't mind waiting a couple days. I'll put it on a slow timer for you. Hope you get things worked out soon!

[Ygorl]

So what should we do about Moses? Find a temporary or permanent replacement? Stick him on AI?
Moses, if you happen to see this, what do you think?

[CyborgMoses]

All right, it doesn't look like I'll be back online quickly enough to keep from holding up the game unreasonably; if someone would like to step in to replace me, that might be best. My apologies for the difficulty, everyone.

[WraithLord]

That's too bad.

I would much prefer if we can find a sub for moses instead of turning to AI.
I want to state what I think is obvious:
The AI is a non factor in MP, it will be exactly as handing over marignon to it's enemies. Which will benefit them and hurt the other nations...

[Jurri]

Wouldn't that just compensate for Van going AI? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

Jurri said:
Wouldn't that just compensate for Van going AI? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Van going AI? when did that happen??
Manuk, did you go AI?
I wasn't aware of that or else I would have gobbled up all van lands in one or two turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Besides two wrongs don't make one right, don't you think? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jurri]

Hehe, Manuk even told me to shut up when I complained, it's on the page before this one... I guess it's only one turn ago, considering that we've been almost a week waiting on Marignon.

I'm not opposed to a sub, of course, but I'd like to get the game going again soon. It's very interesting!

[WraithLord]

Jurri said:
Hehe, Manuk even told me to shut up when I complained, it's on the page before this one... I guess it's only one turn ago, considering that we've been almost a week waiting on Marignon.

I'm not opposed to a sub, of course, but I'd like to get the game going again soon. It's very interesting!



In that case it's fine by me to switch Marignon to AI.

[Ygorl]

Anybody else have any complaints if I AIofy him?
I'd rather find a replacement, actually, but I don't have the time to deal with that right now. If somebody else wants to take care of finding a replacement, I can send the password for Marignon along.

[Jurri]

No complaints seem forthcoming. Hopefully the good Doctor and Reverend are still around, now that it's been a week already since the last turn.

[Ygorl]

I set Marignon to AI.
I'll leave this next turn as a slow one, to let everyone get back into the game (myself included).
I'll be back Sunday night, and then things will really get wild!

[Reverend Zombie]

Jurri said:
Hopefully the good Doctor and Reverend are still around



Yep.

[WraithLord]

Ygorl said:
I set Marignon to AI.
I'll leave this next turn as a slow one, to let everyone get back into the game (myself included).
I'll be back Sunday night, and then things will really get wild!


I will probably not be able to play this saturday (only on saturday). Could you put the game on a slow pace for saturday (say 48h)? - thanks.

[Ygorl]

Absolutely.

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, I might or might not be able to play for the next four days (Thursday through Sunday) - hopefully I can get the game running on my folks computer and/or get a friend to take a few turns for me, but if not I won't be able to send turns in.

--Sam

[Ygorl]

I'll set it to a long quickhost right now; hopefully we can continue as usual at least until the weekend, if not, no big deal. We'll pick up again as normal on Sunday/Monday.
Cheers!

[Ygorl]

Back onto 24-hour hosting. Still waiting for C'tis.

[Reverend Zombie]

My motherboard got fried last week and I knew we were on a looooong hosting schedule, so I have not checked in on this game in a while--thank you for the reminder that we are back on track.

[WraithLord]

Ygorl said:
Back onto 24-hour hosting. Still waiting for C'tis.


Ahhm, Actually, if no one minds that is, I would like to request that we switch to 48h hosting.
My turns are getting very long to process and I am not sure I can keep up with 24h pace.

[Ygorl]

No problem, izaqyos.
It is done.
Sorry about your MB, Reverend.

[WraithLord]

Pythium vs. Ermor. light vs. dark. does it get any more apocalypse streotype then that?

Anyway, Nice moves Ermor.
your GRs are a real pain!
Watch out with your pretender though, as you know mind duel isn't disabled muhahahaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[GriffinOfBuerrig]

What do you mean with GR?

[Jurri]

Hey, happy birthday, Izaqyos! (I'm assuming the cake by your name isn't a new part of your avatar, but rather a reminder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

A certain someone taught me the thing about the magic duel already. Since I'm such a slow learner I had to repeat the class a couple of times... I wonder if I got it yet. I'll tell you what I think of your strategy after the game; we still have 5 contenders, after all, so mebbe radio silence is in order? (This was the no-diplo one, in case you forgot again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

So far this has been one of the best games I've been in, with unbelievable plays. Intriguing.

[WraithLord]

Thank you.
This is my birthday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

didn't forget about the no diplo.
Just couldn't resist the urge to tease just a tiny little bit.
Well sure, no problem, I'll keep the silence untill the end game.

[Ygorl]

Happy birthday!
*gasp*
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
--the teacher

[WraithLord]

Ygorl said:
Happy birthday!
*gasp*
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
--the teacher



Thanks!
How about a nice birthday present, guess 3000g will do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Hate to delay the game further while I am little more than an irritant, but I I'm going to be out of town from Friday morning (or therebouts) until Wednesday or so - could the time-limit but upped to a week or so?

If people prefer I'll switch to computer control, but I've finally got some potentially relevant forces and I'd like to deploy them.

[Ygorl]

No problem. But somebody had better kill me by July 18, because that's when I'm going to Europe for 3 weeks.

[WraithLord]

Server is down now.
Now is 11:28 GMT+2.

Happened when I ended my turn.
I hope all my commands got through...

[Ygorl]

It shows you as still being connected. Should I restart the game? Or is there some way of you downloading your orders beforehand, so you don't have to redo them all?

[Ygorl]

No way to log in. I restarted it, but izaqyos, unfortunately, your turn didn't register. If you did it locally, you can just re-upload. If not, it might be best to play it locally anyway, just to be safe. And, maybe you'll be lucky at it at least saved locally. I don't really know what the game does in this situation.
Good luck!

[WraithLord]

Ygorl said:
No way to log in. I restarted it, but izaqyos, unfortunately, your turn didn't register. If you did it locally, you can just re-upload. If not, it might be best to play it locally anyway, just to be safe. And, maybe you'll be lucky at it at least saved locally. I don't really know what the game does in this situation.
Good luck!


Thanks, I'll probably need it.
I'll know for sure this evening.
meantime I'll hold prayers that the turn was saved locally.

[Jurri]

I don't mind a pause. Teach, you've got yourself to blame for refusing to die like a good citizen. Where in Europe are you headed? Hopefully not London http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Speaking of heading to the wrong places, the Fla. panhandle is not the place to be this weekend, so my trip has been pushed back to Tuesday. Hopefully I'll be able to send turns in from my folk's place up in Boston (which is where I'll be), but if not.... might be a while.

Thanks,
Sam

[Ygorl]

London is actually on the list. Too much anger and not enough thinking in this world...
Scotland, Spain, France also.
I guess I'll leave it on this long hosting schedule, with people taking turns as they can, until everyone is settled back into a reliable schedule.

[Jurri]

Heh, it looks like I will have an erratic schedule for the time being too (does that make it all of us?). Good thing we are on a relaxed schedule already; these are relatively quick turns to make though, so I hope I won't hold up the game too much. Thanks for your patience!

[Ygorl]

Things are getting pretty apocalyptic... It's always night, always bitterly cold, everyone's aging and withering with remarkable speed, dim shadowy giants are menacing the suburbs in the endless midnight blizzards... Surely, the end of the world must be near!

[WraithLord]

Seems that way.
One thing for sure, the victor will have a barren wasteland to rule.

At least I'm getting to experiment with different tactics.
I am already wiser (dominions wise) because of this game.
This is why I started saving my turn files so that later I can study from my mistakes.

[Jurri]

End of the world as you know it, perhaps! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hey Izaq, if you want, I can start saving up my turn files in case you want to see the dark side of the force, too. Not that they are especially brilliant, even if my long-term strategy has proven rather successful.

I can't believe I got had - again - the same way Ygorl took me with his hit squads. Like, I prepared for it for ~10 consequtive turns by sneaking a turn after a turn spent fighting, but since nothing happened I quit: bam!, exactly then it happened again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[WraithLord]

Jurri said:
End of the world as you know it, perhaps! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hey Izaq, if you want, I can start saving up my turn files in case you want to see the dark side of the force, too. Not that they are especially brilliant, even if my long-term strategy has proven rather successful.

I can't believe I got had - again - the same way Ygorl took me with his hit squads. Like, I prepared for it for ~10 consequtive turns by sneaking a turn after a turn spent fighting, but since nothing happened I quit: bam!, exactly then it happened again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif


Bah, I only did it for fun, since with utterdark you're clearly winning.
I can do little to stop you.
In fact I am starting to consider switching to AI as it seems to me hopeless to fight your evil undead hordes...
If it's ok with the rest of you guys that is.

Hey, It would have been very nice to see your turns. I should have come with that idea earlier.

[Ygorl]

Well, Izaqyos, you and maybe Jotunheim are the non-Ermor powers right now. I'm somewhat curious to see what the new Jotun armies can do, but if you bite it then it's really only the giants versus the undead.
I could be a moderate pain in the butt for anyone who wants my capital but otherwise I am out of the running. I'm content either way; I'll be truly out of it come next Monday.
Y'all speak amongst yourselves and let me know what you want to do.
Anyway, I'll be excited to get into a new game when I return. Each nation I try teaches me so many new things... I feel like, maybe in a few years when I run out and have to start repeating, I'll be well prepared to kick some butt!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jurri]

Oh, I'm quite confident that if Izaq is spent I've pretty much won. The giants can't compete in research nor gems, and without Pythium there's no one left to dispell the evil globals. Also, with my income (46 death gems a turn, +a lot of astral) the globals come right back up again, even if the unlikely happens. I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, if you want!

In the Faerun game I made an observation that if Ermor gets big enough it should win based solely on momentum. It's dang tiring to try and take Ermor's castles since they are worth very little to everyone else, especially with low magic sites, and very hard to take; I'm sure Izaq noticed that my endless hordes could tear down the walls much quicker than any army he fielded. Specifically since even though mindless units defend castles at 1/8 efficiency, they will still contribute a great deal if there's a sufficient number available.

Also, with Ermor one can just play the odds: I'm sure I've lost battles at about a rate of 4:1 or something, but the few victories are much more relevant than the losses. No real tactics necessary: just lob the undead at the enemy and hope that he doesn't have too much defense available.

I'll comment some more with better time; what says the good doctor about continuing? If you guys want to test things out I'll be happy to provide the testbed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[WraithLord]

I'll switch to AI this evening, but I agree with Jurri that the giants stand no chance against Ermor.
This is why I feel I can give a bit of my side.

I agree with Jurri on his other observations as well.
I tried first a strategy of conquest agains him. It was very costly to my armies because of supply issues and my gains very negligeble. Ermor would just hide a few hundred undead behind the castle walls while my beseiging troops starved outside. In addition Ermor constantly projected 4-6 GRs per turn on my armies.
Then I started building supply items but the globals started taking their toll on my econ.

So I switched strategy. Let Ermor keep his useless (to me) lands. I will concentrate on dispelling his globals and assisanating his army leaders while building a hoard econ and aiming for wish.
But, because I didn't clam hoard untill the late game, I had little astral income. Possibly lower then Ermor's. Too little to keep up with him on the globals front.

The utterdark was the killer though. I was forging 1-2 clams per turn and had a growing income of astral (20 when I quit). If not for utterdark I would have reached an income of 30-35 astral in ten turns. meaning I could dispel at least one global per turn. And later get to wish...

The burden of time hurt my economy just a little. Not enough to cause my surrender.
Utterdark lasting a few turns was clearly devastating.
Ironically the utterdark came at the same turn I assassinated Ermor's pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Jurri, you are right about Ermor's momentum but it doesn't take anything away from your strategy.
Had you done things differently the outcome might have been different.
For example If you had confronted my armies in the open After Van turned AI. Instead you chose to hide in your castles and let attrition and your globals wear me down.
You used your death gems wisely.

All in all it was a very interesting game for me. Actually one of the best MP games. I learnt a lot and enjoyed every moment of it.
I've kept a fair amount of Pythium turns.
I can upload them if there's interest.
They show the story of the downfall of a great Pythium empire to the relentless undead hordes of Ermor.

[Jurri]

Izaqyos, your armies were very effective against the horde! Indeed, I didn't quite realize before just how huge a difference a rich world makes (the fool that I am). It's one of the very best ways to stop ghost riders and Ashen Empire, targeting the leaders. In fact, for a moment it seemed to me that I couldn't stop your advance at all, and would have to rely on Burden of Time and Utterdark, neither of which I had never tried before, and my stash of lictors. Luckily your hoburgs weren't the best there are for bringing down walls, while eating well enough their share http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif What did you research, by the way? I expected Arcane Nexus or Wrath of God anytime now!

This was indeed a highly interesting game. I figured I'd get an advantage from no-diplomacy, since Ermor isn't usually confronted alone: When Man berserked me at the beginning I was proven wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Luckily, a bunch of spectators can stop most any rush, especially since the siege will inevitably thin the ranks of the assailant.

Van had good tactics and took great advantage of the rich setting with his bless-strategy. In my opinion he was far too agressive, attacking both me and Pythium at the same time; indeed, had he attacked only one of us, things would have gone differently.

Atlantis had a good thing going for a long time. I had great trouble countering his raids with his insane priests and mind burning mages... Here, again, the castles saved me. As did ghost riders, later on.

My strategy from the beginning was to not attack anyone, as time is on Ermor's side. Wasn't very effective, as once I finished a war another started, without my initiative. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Tell the truth, I'm not even sure why I won, as my tactics are hardly stellar and my strategy didn't work out as planned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif It has to be an inherent unbalace in the nations or something; one could argue that Ermor is qualitatively better than the rest on a one-on-one basis, possessing unique strengths. All in all, a good game, thank you!

I guess it would be considerate to liberate the spot on Mosehansen before Ygorl vanishes (have a safe trip, man!), unless DocPraetorius objects. (When was he due back, again?)

[Ygorl]

I don't know that it would have made a big difference in the long run, but I was really hurt by one particular stale... I was trying to make it home from NY in time, but it just didn't happen... As a result of it, I lost seven Kings of the Deep, and also (maybe even more importantly) lost my front. From then on, I was chasing down packs of undead roaming around my interior, fragmenting my armies and not gaining ground, and it was the familiar story - my losses hurt me, Ermor's very rarely did.
Vanheim really did put on a strong showing. Twice I tried to start things, and twice I was beat down hard by a fireball-lobbing Moloch and a horde of glamorous elfkin.
Jurri and izaqyos demonstrated that even in a game with low gems and high research costs the research is hugely important. Some skillful maneuvering from both of you as well.
I've decided that I really like Atlantis's lineup of leaders. The big three are really all standout units. The only thing it's hurt by is the lack of an obvious mass-researcher (the WWWSS guys aren't too bad, but are capital only, and nobody's sacred so the bills get high; the W guys are more cost-effective, but they're so otherwise-useless and also capital-only that I couldn't bring myself to hire any. Maybe this was a mistake?) There aren't any sages underwater either.

[WraithLord]

seeing that things are settled I'd like to congrat Jurri for his victory. And all you other guys for a great game.

Manuk, You gave a hell of a show. Your bless strat. was optimal for this map settings and you maneuvered very well. I agree with Jurri that had you not attacked both Ermor and me you'd probably fare much better.

Ygorl, I watched Atlanis skirmish with Ermor. You played very well but I could see that Ermor is winning by attrition. one of the reasons I moved against Ermor asap, even before I finished Vanheim (AI). This turned out badly for me as Van's Moloch kept hurting me for a long time.

I didn't understand why Alneyan's Caelum lasted so little. I am used to Caelum being a top dog. Maybe he took the raptor's theme... Nor did I understand why Marignon turned AI. They had a good thing going and sure would have made a difference otherwise.

One odd thing though. I noticed that at no time I was at war with more then one nation. First I (together with Van) tore Tien chi apart. Then I had the longest war with Van and last a losing battle against the numerous undead.