PBEM game: The first step (Running)

[Alneyan]

As usual, I have settled on a wonderfully unimaginative title for my game ("A journey of a thousand miles began with a single step").

So, this game is intended for new players to get their feet wet; for this purpose, a new player is someone having not played in multiplayer at all, or just a little (started a game, played with a friend, and so on). There will be a few "seasoned" players, who will answer questions and give a few hints to the other players (but certainly not a perfect strategy).

The game will be played in the Play-by-email format (PBEM), where turns are sent in mails; more specifically, the host (myself here) will send .trn files, the players will play their turns as usual, and send back their order (.2h) file.

The following players have expressed interest in joining the game as players:
- RibbonBlue: Man
- Sushiboat: Ermor
- BigDaddy: Pythium
- Agrajag: Jotunheim
- CyborgMoses: Machaka
- Molog: Pangaea
- Enforcer: Arcoscephale
- Schmonk: Marignon

If you have already made up your Pretenders, feel free to start sending them to me. They can be found in the newlords directory: if your nation is Ermor, the Pretender fille will be ermor.2h . My address is alneyan[AT]fastmail[DOT]co.uk (replace [AT] and [DOT] by @ and . respectively).

The seasoned advisers:
- Quantum_Mechani
- Ironhawk

Settings for the game will be fairly standard, along those lines:
- Map: Likely Inland (comes with the game), as it is a rather small map, and it does not have any corner.
- Strength of independents: 6, the level where independents are no longer push-overs, but aren't too deadly yet.
- Research level: Standard research
- Hall of Fame entries: 15
- Magic site frequency: 45 or so
- Renaming is on
- Graphs are likely to be on, allowing all players to see how well they are doing compared to the other nations.
- Turn-around: 48 hours, with the turns running as soon as all turn files are in.
- Mods: A tricky one. Enabling mods for a first game may be contradictory, but a mod such as Zen Pretenders Balance could be interesting, as it reduces the gap in power between all Pretender choices (making poor choices less of a problem). Zen Pretenders is attached to this mod, along with a readme file listing all changes made by the mod.

[sushiboat]

Please put me down for Ermor.

I haven't tried Zen's Pretenders Balance mod yet, but using it would be fine with me.

[Agrajag]

Im thinking about joining (I havent actually played an MP game yet), can someone explain to me how PBEM works and what will I need to do?
Im not 100% sure I'll join since Im not a huge fan of MP, but it might be a good way to improve my skills.
Thank you.

[Alneyan]

I have given a short summary for now about PBEM; I believe there is a slightly more detailed part in the MP guide. Basically, you will have to create a Pretender, send it to me, and off we go; to play the actual turns, you will put a .trn file into a game directory (any game directory actually), play a turn as usual, and send back one file (the .2h file).

Once I get all the files from the player, another turn will run, and will be sent to everyone, and so on.

[Agrajag]

If that's all there is to it, great!
I'd like to try my luck as Jotunheim.
I haven't tried the Balance Mod, but I don't mind turning it on if everyone wants it.

[RibbonBlue]

Alneyan, where I do I get the balance mod? Also, each time I get a turn file, do I remove the old one?

[Alneyan]

Welcome aboard Agrajag!

The mod is attached to this post, and will be added to the first post as well (a zip archive including a readme file, listing all the changes).

In order to use the mod, extract the contents of the archive into your mods directory, and enable the mod. To do so, go into the Preferences screen, then Mod preferences, and click on Conceptual Pretender Gods 2.01. Once it is done, create your Pretender as usual; there will be a black and white banner displayed in the main menu once the mod is enabled.

Once the game has been started, Dominions will automatically handle the mod, disabling and enabling it as needed, so it will not interfere with other games.

There will be two files in the game's directory: man.trn and man.2h (or ermor.trn and ermor.2h for Ermor, and so on). The .trn file is the one I will send you, and any new file will overwrite the new one; the .2h file is the one created after you have finished your turn, so the game will automatically overwrite this one. So there is no need to delete files by hand, as both will be overwritten by newer files automatically.

[CyborgMoses]

Please sign me up for this game; I've never played multiplayer before, and would like to give it a shot. I suppose I'll take a try with Machaka.

[Alneyan]

Welcome aboard CyborgMoses!

[Alneyan]

So, there are now five players in the game; I think we have room for a few more players, two or three or so.

On another note, what patch should this game use? I have most patches from 2.08 onwards on my computer, so I can use any patch; using the same patch as the host is needed to ensure that the battle replays aren't incorrect.

[BigDaddy]

Alneyan, are you waiting for 10 players?

[sushiboat]

I am using version 2.16, so that is my preference.

[Alneyan]

There is room for a couple more players, but I wouldn't expect to reach 10 players; seven or so would be enough. On another note, if someone would like to play a water nation (or if there are only five players), Desert Eye could be a better map: it also comes with the map, is also wrap-around, and has some sea provinces (and fewer land provinces than Inland).

If you have already made up your Pretenders, feel free to start sending them to me. They can be found in the newlords directory: if your nation is Ermor, the Pretender fille will be ermor.2h . My address is alneyan[AT]fastmail[DOT]co.uk (replace [AT] and [DOT] by @ and . respectively).

[RibbonBlue]

I would like to use patch 2.16.

[Ironhawk]

Alneyan, I am willing to sign up as a "seasoned" advisor.

Also I have a general question about your games: why do you run them as PBEM games, and not regular? If you need a server to host your games, I can provide it.

[Alneyan]

There are a couple of reasons; in no specific order, here they are:
- As a player, I much prefer PBEM over TCP/IP, though I have been known to play TCP/IP once in a while.
- I usually cannot play in TCP/IP reliably, though it looks like this problem has disappeared.
- I feel that PBEM is much easier to handle backups than TCP/IP, both for the players and for myself.
- Some of my games simply *have* to be PBEM, as I must run the actual hosting of the turns. They include King of the Hill and Entwined Destiny (I have to dump the scores regularly, which is something that wouldn't be quite as easy with TCP/IP).
- Lastly, I prefer to make sure all game files are saved up somewhere else, both for reference purposes (looking at the whole game once it is over) and to check for miscellaneous cheating attempts. This is something I cannot be sure of via TCP/IP.

Oh, and I am just a glutton for punishment and love running the turns. So thanks for the offer, but I think I will stick with PBEM (even if I could run TCP/IP on my own computer, I am not sure if I would switch to TCP/IP in this case).

[Molog]

I'd like to try and play with Pangea. Are we using that pretender rebalance mod?

[Alneyan]

Welcome aboard! We will indeed be using this mod (available for download in the first post of the thread).

[Alneyan]

Pretenders for Machaka and Pangaea are in.

[sushiboat]

Are we ready to start the game? I am getting a feel for my Pretender design, so I don't want to send it in if we are still a few days away from launch. However, if we are ready to go, I will submit it now.

[Alneyan]

You could also send a Pretender now, and change it later if you find something else that works better.

The game will start soon, though there is always room for another player or two. Once I get all Pretenders file, we will get started.

[En Forcer]

Hey, Alneyhan.

I am interested and enjoy having you as a moderator for the other MP game I am currently getting spanked in. This would be my 4th MP game...do I qualify as new enough to join or is your preference "brand new" folks?

[Alneyan]

I think it will be fine, if you believe you can benefit from this sort of game. So welcome aboard!

I have received the Pretender for Ermor; that makes three Pretenders, out of six.

[En Forcer]

Okay, I'm gonna try something new and go with Arco. Prentender sent.

[Alneyan]

I have all Pretenders except for Bigdaddy's (Pythium).

[Shmonk]

Alneyan -
Any chance there's room for one more? I've been "lurking" for months now on the boards, and only play SP so far. Figured I'd give MP a try. Let me know if one more is okay. I'd be willing to select an available race and start a pretender (using 2.01 zen mod, I believe).

Let me know, otherwise I'll just keep watching and get in another game. Thanks!

[Alneyan]

Welcome aboard Shmonk!

Eight players should fit quite well on Inland (about 18 provinces per nation), and the game hasn't started yet. Please select a land nation (there are very few sea provinces on Inland), create a Pretender using Pretenders 2.01, and send the Pretender file to me (it can be found in the newlords directory).

[Shmonk]

Ok, I choose Marignon, and have just created a pretender. It's on it's way via email. Thanks!

On average, how long do newbie games last, would you say, 30-50 turns, or not even that long? Just curious to get your impressions.

[Alneyan]

I am not sure if a newbie game has a different length compared to other games; usually, games seem to last 60 turns or so, but that depends a lot on the aggressiveness of all the involved parties.

Another map on Inland with 6 teams of 2 players is already nearing its end (I think) at turn 40, while I am hosting a Karan game already past the "turn 100" mark, with no end in clear sight.

[VALENT]

Alneyan
have you a place for a beginner in multi? i think its closed.i am a very bad player without experience

[Shmonk]

Thanks for the info.

[Alneyan]

Valent => I have replied to your mail, rather than here. But in short, I'm afraid we already have a full house here: eight players for Inland is fine for a beginner game, and more may make the game overcrowded.

I am thinking there would be interest in this sort of game on the French boards, but I could be wrong on that one (I haven't been paying much attention there in the past couple of weeks).

[Molog]

I put a border around the edges of the tga of inland to help me orientate myself, because wrap around maps give me a headache.

[Alneyan]

The game won't mind, so long as the .tga file is still called inland. At least, I *think* the game won't mind.

[Alneyan]

The first turn has just been sent; please let me know as soon as possible if there is any problem.

[Molog]

Upon starting my unstoppable ascension to godhood I decide to check out the competetion.

I notice Ermors false god has both male and female titles.

Man's pretender is named Fountain of Avalon, probably a ploy to fool us into believing he has chosen the fountain as his pretender.

I burn a bush and appoint a prophet to spread my faith.

My pretender goes to work in the lab.

I also decide to engage in some diplomacy.

[Shmonk]

Can you send me my turn file again? I haven't received it yet (or somehow the spam filters auto deleted it). Or it's just delayed coming all the way from France. hehehe

I figure if I don't get it a 2nd time, I'll PM you a different email address.

I didn't know burning a bush was required in appointing a prophet... can't I just point to someone and say "hey YOU, your it until you fail", or is that not inspiring enough? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[RibbonBlue]

Well whats something interesting that happened? Nothing that I can think of so I'll just say. Longbows are good!!!.

[Alneyan]

I have just send the file again Shmonk.

[sushiboat]

Pythium worships Zanbarth, He Who is at the Center, Prince of the Cold North, Dispenser of Fate, the King of Berries.

Man worships The Well of Avalon, Creator of the Calendar, Lord of Order, Dispenser of Fate, the Persuasive One.

Arcosephale worships Antrineus, Prince of the Harvest, the Unforgiving Prince.

<font color="#666666">Arcosephale worships Tarphe, Goddess of Destiny, Lady of the Pole Star.</font>

Ermor worships Nyx, God of Invincible Power, Goddess of Plagues, Queen of the Freezing Winds, Queen of Fishermen, the Divine Shepherd.

Marignon worships Fortu, Sword of Balance, Feeder on Impurity, the Armorer.

Pangaea worships Vespur, Lord of Corruption, the Armorer, God of the Hunt, Prince of Suicides.

Jotunheim worships Hrud, King of Order, King of Pain, the Man Eater.

Machaka worships Gran, Prince of Flames, King of Metals, God of the Harvest.

Edit: changed Arco Pretender description to match the one really being used.

[Shmonk]

Alneyan, I sent you another email with a different email address to use. I haven't received my turn yet on either account if you've sent it to the 2nd one also.

[RibbonBlue]

Theorticly could you take the adjetives of a gods name and therefore figure ot what type of god they have for example

Arcosephale:
Tarphe
Godess=Female
Destiny=luck/astral
polestar=astral
therefor tarphe is a natraja with astral and high luck the rest of the scales normal.

Jotunheim
King of Order =3order
King of Pain =Death
Man Eater =Blood

I think jotuys god is a prince of death.

Let me try the rest:
Pythium
He who is at the center= balance of magics, like 2 or 3 of every magic
Prince of cold north= 2cold because 3 order is "King"
dispensr of fate= luck1
king of berries=3 growth

emermor, vampire queen or ghost king cause of imortatly=inviscible power, plagues=death,freezing winds= max cold
fishermen/sheperd=growth

marignon
sword balance= no change of scales
feeder of impurity=high blood
armorer=high earth

pangae
curroption= nature+death magic, armorer=earth magic=god of hunt=3growth, prince of sucides= 2chaos
machaka prince of flames=high fire, king of metals= really high earth, god of harvest =production cause a harvest is what is produced. I think machaka is gunna get those scared spider assains and do a blessing.

I wonder if I am right.

[RibbonBlue]

some one try and figure me out.

[Molog]

Man worships The Well of Avalon, Creator of the Calendar, Lord of Order, Dispenser of Fate, the Persuasive One.

I had most difficulty figuring out your titles.
Lord of order= probably order 3.
Dispenser of fate = High luck or productivity?
persuasive one = high astral or dominion?

From your name I'd guess you are an oracle.

The titles are a bit randomly, so I would be carefull in deducting to much. I remade my pretender three times ,because i wanted to get some cool titles.

[CyborgMoses]

Hmm... I also have not recieved a turn, I'm afraid. Have you previously had trouble with Yahoo! mail?

[BigDaddy]

I use yahoo, and I've recieved mine.

[Agrajag]

I use Gmail, and I've recieved mine.
By the way, anyone wants an invitation to use Gmail?
They're free, and I got ~49 left...

[Alneyan]

I usually have trouble with Yahoo, but on the "Player send files" end; I think it is the first time turns do not make it to the player's mail, though Yellow Cactus has been having trouble in Entwined Destiny as well (for the past couple of turns).

I am thinking my SMTP has been altered, explaining why it doesn't work quite as well as before. I will send back those turns with my own Yahoo mail, but I am not too hopeful... if it doesn't work, I will switch to Plan C (involving uploading the files somewhere, for players unable to get their turn files).

(In the case of Shmonk, I did send the turn to both mails, so that's why I suspect the problem is on my end, and not on yours)

[Alneyan]

The situation for now (I am writing it here, instead of sending it as a mail, given the current problems):

- Man, Ermor, Pangaea and Jotunheim have sent in their turns.
- Pythium has sent a turn, but that was a .trn file (contained in a zip file), and not the .2h file. You do not need to zip your turn files, as they are very light; I only zip the .trn files to make sure I am in the correct directory.
- No turn file from Arcoscephale.
- Marignon and Machaka didn't get the turn files, so they haven't played their turns.

[Ironhawk]

RibbonBlue said:
Arcosephale:
Tarphe
Godess=Female
Destiny=luck/astral
polestar=astral
therefor tarphe is a natraja with astral and high luck the rest of the scales normal.




Nata's are male, I believe.

As for some of your other guesses, I agree with many of them, but there are some titles which I have found to be given out almost at random so dont count on them too much. Better to just send out your scouts and find out for sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Shmonk]

Got it! I've reviewed my starting position, given orders, sacrificed a few goats (and a chicken), and ended my turn. Time to submit it for review... (I hope that single chicken sacrifice gets me something good!)

[sushiboat]

Was it a virgin chicken? That makes a difference, I hear.

[Shmonk]

Doh! I only had 1 chicken and 3 roosters, so I doubt it. Maybe should've sacrificed a rooster instead - more testoserone, so it might have produced a mightier outcome?

Ok, that might be reaching a little. Will have to try something different next time.

[Alneyan]

Looks like I screwed up: I used a wrong Pretender file for Arcoscephale. Do not worry however, as I can correct that fairly easily; starting positions will be different, however, but nothing else will change.

No turn for Arcoscephale (obviously) or Machaka: those two nations should submit their turn file using the new turn files I will send them in a few minutes, though it is not needed. I hope this mail problem will be solved soon, one way or another: it will be very annoying otherwise. Cyberg Moses: if you still don't get this turn, please let me know, and I will ready a FTP for your turn files.

[En Forcer]

Okay. That's better. The turn came in just fine.

As far as guessing my pretender? Well, it was goofed up because I got the test file which had a Statue with high astral. Obviously, this is no longer the case...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CyborgMoses]

I'm afraid that I still haven't recieved anything. Sorry about the trouble.

[Alneyan]

URL to the file forwarded in private.

[Agrajag]

Will we recieve the next turn as soon as everyone finished, or just tomorrow (Thursday, in case the clock goes crazy) at 18:00 GMT?

[Alneyan]

Turns always run as soon as possible; only the deadlynes stay at 1800 GMT.

I didn't get Machaka's turn: have you received the URL for the file in a private message, or perhaps even the file(s) in your mailbox? (I can hope for the latter solution, but I doubt that)

[CyborgMoses]

Right, I got everything working, and the turn is on its way to you. Sorry again about the trouble.

[Alneyan]

I didn't get anything on any of my mails. Not sure what's wrong though; perhaps you could try getting a mail on Fastmail, as mails going from the same domain should work much better? I don't know for sure if it will help however.

[Alneyan]

You should also forward your orders to me in private, so that I can play a turn in your stead, and run next turn. I am not sure when exactly standard emailing will work, so I guess we had better find another way in the meantime.

[En Forcer]

Are you holding off on sending out a turn? Just checking in case you sent one in the last day or two and I didn't receive it.

[Alneyan]

I am, as the problem with Machaka has yet to be solved: I had a tough time sending in the turn, and I didn't get their turn file. We are ready to go as soon as I get his turn though (or his instructions).

[Molog]

Perhaps a gmail account might help.

[RibbonBlue]

Power to Gmail!!!

[CyborgMoses]

Grrr... I seem to have missed the .co in your address. Hopefully, this should go through.

[Alneyan]

It worked fine. I am sending the URL of the new file to you, in case my own mail doesn't work.

The next turn has run, so if you don't get the mail, please post here as usual. Gmail should do the trick to have an easier time sending mails, or you could even upload turn files somewhere.

[Alneyan]

Oh, looks like your scouts may have ended up in other provinces too. If such is the case, you might wish to consider using the "top-notch intelligence" method to know how well a province is defended.

To do so, use a commander to attack a province, put this commander as back to the left as possible, and give orders to Retreat. That way, the commander will retreat on turn one, and should be out of range of any attack... except fliers, and possibly a couple of spells independents might have. In all other cases, your commander will retreat to a friendly province, and you will be able to replay the "battle", allowing you to see all the troops in that province, how many there are, if there are annoying mages, and so on.

[Molog]

Finally turn 2.

Not much to do.

Noticed Machaka bought some hobbit mercenaries.
Gynther Blukraft is buyable, bunch of heavily armoured guys with flails, nice but too expensive for me. Mercenaries cost extra for pangea.

Looked at scoregraphs to get an idea of what others are doing.

[Shmonk]

Did I win yet?? Oh, I guess it's too soon to tell. That, and the fact that I'm currently at work and can't run my turn (hopefully the non-virgin chicken I sacrificed doesn't come back to bite me in the end).

Woohoo, turn 2 here we go.

[sushiboat]

Turn 2

Ermor announced Tagg Klatu the Censor as its prophet.

Pangaea announced Satyrica the Black Harpy as its prophet.

On the graphs, the Research rankings probably give a good indication of the amount of magical power (i.e., total number of path levels) of the Pretenders. The order is Ermor, Pangaea, Pythium, Machaka, Marignon, Jotunheim/Man (tie), and Arcosephale (at zero). Arco must have chosen something else for its Pretender to do.

On the other graphs, Arco is first in income, Ermor is first in gems and dominion, and Machaka is first in army size.

[En Forcer]

Argh! I'm surrounded by wastelands!

[Ironhawk]

En Forcer said:
Argh! I'm surrounded by wastelands!



Time to start searching for fire and earth gems! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[En Forcer]

Yeah, I'll have my Astral and water mystics get right on that!

:p

[sushiboat]

I hope that we can play these early turns relatively quickly. Later, things will get complicated, but there's no in-game reason at the moment to wait until the 48-hour deadline.

[En Forcer]

He cranks out the turns as soon as the last person gets it in. The deadline is just to avoid stale turns and whatnot.

[sushiboat]

Yes, I understand that. I was speaking to the players, who I hope will not sit on their turns for the full 48 hours.

[Shmonk]

Yes, I'm hoping we get a few turns done this weekend, if at all possible, just to get this started. Though I have yet to submit my 2nd turn (still at work, argh!!) But in a few hours, it will be completed.

Now wouldn't it be an interesting twist for a game to be started by all players, but at turn 15 or so the host "switched" the players/races up, so for the rest of the game each would be in charge of a different race/pretender than they created? An interesting little twist, wouldn't you think, makes for a "different" approach to starting out, research and scouting-wise.

Just thinking out loud...

[Alneyan]

I am missing turns for Arcoscephale, Marignon and Machaka. Status mails will be sent once all mail-related problems are solved; until then, I will post on this thread instead.

To Machaka: you might wish to use my dominions2@yahoo.fr too, as that one will let you know when your mail is delivered (it will send a mail with a subject "Yahoo - Message d'absence" and a body of "Your mail has been received"). Using another mail account should do the trick too, or forwarding me a copy of your instructions in private, or a combination of the above.

[En Forcer]

speaking of delinquent turns...my turn is now sent

[Shmonk]

Ditto for me, just sent mine.

[RibbonBlue]

I sent mine a while ago.

[CyborgMoses]

Mine is in as well.

[Alneyan]

Turn 3 has just been sent.

[Agrajag]

This ought to give me a chance to see the superior-scout tip in action. =P
Just have to wait until everyone submits their turn...

[Shmonk]

Just sent in my turn 3.

Interesting start, some witch cursed my units for stealing gems from her?? I didn't get an email the prior turn, but checking my treasury, I see 5 nature gems. Hmm.... how to put those to use.

And on this rather large map, how is it that I'm only 2 provinces away from one of these false pretenders I'm hearing about (me being the 1 true god)? Argh!!

Questions on diplomacy (since it doesn't apply to SP games. Is it always prefered/recommended early in the game to allow everybody to ramp up? Is it frowned upon too early? Just curious (not that my neighbor "deserves" an alliance with me, but just curious).

- Shmonk

[Alneyan]

Players are put on the map fairly randomly, but it isn't really big: there are only 145 provinces, for 8 players (I think), and it is a warp-around map, so you are likely to start with someone very closeby. The maximum distance between your capital and someone's else should be under ten provinces; eight is the maximum I think.

The witch thing was a random event: those happen randomly (duh), though the game can affect them - a nation with a Death scale is more likely to get plagues for example. So you didn't actually do anything, but the dice gave you this event (a good one too, unless the curse happens to target your important commanders).

Ah, diplomacy. There is no hard rule here, but you will usually agree to be neutral with your fellow players... except if you want to attack them early on, of course. Expansion tends to focus on beating the independents as soon as possible, but you might consider province trades after that. Doing too well could result in an early war, but it seems unlikely: having more provinces on turn 15 does not mean much, and if you do have more provinces, you should have the upper hand in a war.

A nation like Ermor (the death themes at least) has also trouble with its Dominion, since nobody wants to see their population dying off (and Ermor will likely have very poor scales). It can be worked around however, especially if the Ermorian player is willing to keep Dominion under control. If this player starts casting Utterdark and spreads Dominion like mad, it will be another matter altogether. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[sushiboat]

Turn 3

According to the graphs, Ermor, Marignon, and Machaka each gained a province. Arco jumped close to Machaka in army size by winning the bid for mercenaries. Pangaea now leads in research, with Pythium a close second.

The Hall of Fame shows two Pretenders with kills -- Gran of Machaka and Fortu of Marignon. The Ermorian Prophet Tagg Klatu also made the list.

[Agrajag]

By looking at the change in research you can see which players sent their pretenders out conquering indies (since that nation's reasearch flat-lined it means the pretender isnt researching).
Interesting how Ermor and Marignon have the upper hand as far as conquest goes, as they are each others arch-nemesis (as far as the story goes at least, though Marignon should have the upper hand as far as combat goes as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ).
Cant wait to see some real action (and probably my pretender banished form this world as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

[Molog]

Ermor is probably summoning a dusk elder.

[RibbonBlue]

Great my luck is just going great. The independts around me are all Milita/longbowmen/heavy infantry/crossbowmen/knights.
Theres also a druid province and barbarian province.
All my provinces have knights. I saw one province that had milita+longbowmen, I go to conqure it with my army. 4 Knight commanders and 3 knights!!!. The druid province I am attacking will probaly contain darkvines. My luck is just going great!!!

[Alneyan]

Five turns (out of eight) are in.

[Agrajag]

Good point about Ermor.
Though if he only plans to research with his summon, a spectator would be more efficient as they can summon themselves (just like dusk elders) but they (spectators) offer more RP/DeathGems.
Now give me my turn!
I have a big test on monday and I don't want any turn on my head while Im doing it =P.

[sushiboat]

Speaking of Marignon and Ermor, I am curious about the real world history that inspired them. I know that Ermor represents the Roman Empire, and Pythium represents the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern half of the Roman empire that survived Rome's fall). I have heard that Marignon is supposed to be medieval Spain, and some of the names do sound Spanish. However, other names sound more French (like Marignon itself) or Italian. Perhaps Marignon represents all of medieval Christendom.

[Alneyan]

I would say Marignon is southern France/northern Spain, with the Holy See (Marignon has a Cardinal, like Pythium if memory serves). The part of France I am thinking of is the lands of the Cathars, as it would be fairly close to Marignon, I believe. Add the Inquisition, maybe even the Reconquista, shake a lot, and you have Marignon. That's how I see them at any rate.

[RibbonBlue]

Any tips on killing Knights+Lowbowmen+milita/heavy infantry/light infantry, as man. My last atempt to expand was at a "20 or so milita/lowbowmen" that also had 3 knights+4 knight commanders. Right now my expansion efforts are going to get crushed since I am pretty much surounded by that stuff.

[Molog]

Make some knights and longbows of your own.

Perhaps use lots of longbows on the barbarians. Barbarians got low protection and morale.

Buy some good mercenaries if you want to expand early.

[Alneyan]

Everybody is in except Machaka and Arcoscephale.

Your best bet is to go after the Barbarians or the Woodsmen for now I guess, backed by longbowmen. They should be able to make them rout fairly quickly. You may also want to pull your infantry to the back of your army, or even keep them with the longbowmen: a small squad is more likely to rout.

I am not sure what else to do with mundane troops, but then I do poorly with national troops. A row of spearmen (long spears preferably) may do the trick to halt the charge of the knights, backed by a few of the damage-dealing troops of Man (Axemen or Tower Guards). Alternatively, it might be possible to do something with Tangle Vines to keep the Knights entangled, and some firepower support: the Crones can cast Lightning Bolt at Evocation 2, a killer spell as it bypasses armour.

[RibbonBlue]

Tangle vines, I did not think of that. Right now, I am trying to kill the druids. But knowing my luck I bet there are lik 9 darkvines in that province.

[Shmonk]

Hmm, seems like we might not get the next turn until Monday possibly, unless we get the last 2 to submit there turn sometime this afternoon (darn).

And I have the same problem. Most of my provinces I'm surrounded by have heavy cavalry, and that's not fun. So I'm going after the other non-cavalry ones first. Also, there's a province of Ghouls and Soulless that should be easy - for me (Marignon), at least. Thankfully my priests/inquisitors do NOT like undead... unless, of course, they're controlling them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Shmonk]

Darkvines, now I finally saw my first one last week. In an SP game I attacked a province with druids and 2 darkvines. Not knowing what they were, I initially though they were a type of Vine Men. So, I thought they'd be easy. Then watching the battle, I saw how wrong I was. Yikes!

That's what I like about this game, I haven't played a lot, or even completed more than 1 game, and I'm still enjoying finding new things.

[sushiboat]

You guys might want to play your cards closer to the chest. If you give everyone details about your nation, that information may be used against you. To get advice, you can send a private message to quantum_mechani or Ironhawk. You can also keep a game journal, which you can share with us later as an after-action report (AAR).

[Alneyan]

Turn 3 has run (current turn is turn 4). From now on, I will send all game-related information in mails, as everything seems to be working fine.

[sushiboat]

Turn 4

Man announced a prophet. Ermor hired the mercenary sage Dagan.

According to the graphs, Machaka conquered a third province to become sole leader in that category. Only Pangaea has not taken a province outside of its capital. All other nations own two provinces each. Marignon and Machaka have found new gem income. Pangaea's army size jumped up to join Machaka and Arcosephale in the top tier of that category.

Another Pretender, Atrineus of Arco, made the Hall of Fame with 2 kills.

[Molog]

Turn 4

Lost the bid for Dagan, for the rest everything is classified.

I think Ermor, Pythium, Machaka and Earoscale are going to be dangerous.

[Shmonk]

Wow, this could be a bad thing, checking the forums at work. So I guess I was searching for magic sites if I (Marignon) found new gem income. I'm playing an SP game also, so I had forgotten what my orders were for this game. Now I'm looking forward to getting home and seeing what else happened on my turn...

[Ironhawk]

RibbonBlue said:
Great my luck is just going great. The independts around me are all Milita/longbowmen/heavy infantry/crossbowmen/knights.
Theres also a druid province and barbarian province.
All my provinces have knights. I saw one province that had milita+longbowmen, I go to conqure it with my army. 4 Knight commanders and 3 knights!!!. The druid province I am attacking will probaly contain darkvines. My luck is just going great!!!



Sorry for the slow reply. RibbonBlue as Man you have a very strong selection of national units with which to defeat the indies threatening. I will run down them and just make some quick comments, some of which have already been covered in the thread.

Barbarians: Man LOVES barbarians. They have barely any prot and arent particularly fast. Build about 20-30 longbowmen, set them way in the back of the field and Fire Closest. You will tear them to pieces before they even reach your men. Bring a set of spearmen or other chaff and set them to Hold and Attack if you feel you really need it.

Druids: Another indy type that is favorable to Man. Again, just mass up your longbowmen and this time set them to Fire Archers. The woodsman will have to move forward to get into range of your longbows (if they have been placed farthest possible back!) so they wont even fire first. Your longbows will slaughter them in 1-2 volleys and they will flee. Then the blowpipe guys will be in range and the same will happen to them. Darkvines could pose a problem, I dont recall thier prot. Maybe bring some chaff to tie them up while the longbows go to work on them. You might also get some lucky arrow hits on the druids themselves which could cause a rout.

Knight Provs: These are tricky. I will list off a way to defeat them here but it requires a bit of subtlety to get the tactical placements just right so I highly recommend you put off attacking knights until later in the game. Anyway, the trick with Knights would be to bring 1) chaff and 2) knights of your own. Put the chaff up front, set to Attack Cavalry - these guys will all die, but they will use up the Lance attack. Somethign cheap (with shields in this case, since enemy has bows) and use enough of them so that they wont rout if a couple die to arrows in the first 1-2 turns before the knights can kill them. Then have your Longbowmen set way back and on Fire Cavalry. Probably you wont kill any, but you might wound one or two, which can be the deciding factor with a small squad. Then have your knights way back as well with Hold and Attack Cavalry. So they will jump into action once your chaff has eaten the indy lance attacks and Lance the enemy in return.

[RibbonBlue]

Cool, thanks alot this really helps. I just slaughtered a mass of barbarians. The knights will fall soon hopefully.

[Alneyan]

I would stay away from the knights for now, at least until you have taken care of weaker provinces. If the knight provinces are within your territory, you should be able to take care of them later on, preferably without losing a lot of troops. For now, I would focus on trying to slaughter those weak independents, unable to fight off a storm of arrows (you can win such battles with no losses with a bit of luck, and losses should be low). Then again, I usually leave the task of clearing the knights to my Pretender, so I may not be the best advice in the world.

Turn 5 has run, and I have sent a general mail. As usual, please let me know if you did not get the general mail.

[sushiboat]

Turn 5

Arcosephale and Marignon announce their prophets. Man hired Ferdinando's Footmen, and Machaka renewed its contract with Fordo Boggit.

Machaka gained a fourth province to keep its lead. Arco and Ermor each conquered a third province. Pangaea now has its second province.

[Shmonk]

Doh! This is going to make for a long day for me. Again, I made the mistake of checking the forum at work. And see that the only mention of Marignon is my prophet being selected. Wasn't there anything else noticable? No other prophets for Marignon unveiled themselves in Machaka or Ermor or Man, to rally against the false gods that are worshipped there? Didn't the multitude of sacrifices I made to my beloved god get noticed? I mean, that was a LOT of cows to ritually sacrifice. Though it should be okay, I'm making my capital citizens become vegans, so they don't need the meat anyway. So I'll double the sacrifices next turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[En Forcer]

The goddess herself brings the word to the heathen indies...behold! ...And mercs make good chaff.

Here is a question for the more advanced folks on this game-I find myself alchemizing gems to make just enough gold to get that last unit. But I'm hearing arguments that you should hoard gems and just forego the purchase. What is the thought in regards to this? What I did was alchemize 8 pearls to fire gems which I then sold for gold so I could afford a mystic. Am I making a big mistake or is this a shrewd move?

[Shmonk]

Ok, this could be a newbie question, but I didn't know you could alchemize astral to anything else (like fire or earth) so you could then alchemize those to gold if you want. How do you do that? Is it specific to a certain race/item, or am I just missing something on the Alchemy interface?

[Molog]

Any mag in a lab gets the alchemy command.
There should be two-way and one-way arrows on the alchemy interface. Click on either side or use short cuts to alchemise.

All gems can be turned into or made from astral gems using a 2-to-1 ration. Earth gems can be alchemised into 10 gold and fire gems into 15.

The master alchemist pretender with its 100% alchemy bonus gets 30 gold for fire and 20 for earth. There is also a standard alchemist which you can find sometimes, but he only gets a 50% bonus.

[En Forcer]

Yes. Look at the alchemy interface. To convert astral to fire gems click on the fire gem with an arrow point TOWARD it. That will burn two pearls and create one fire gem. Then click the fire gem with the arrow pointing away (towards the gold) to get about 15 gold or so. I don't remember the amount of gold off hand.

You loose a lot on the exchange but I figure it's an issue of priorities.

[sushiboat]

Only Blood slaves can't be alchemized. Astral pearls are like an exchange currency. Two of another gem kind can be alchemized for one Astral pearl, and two Astral pearls can be alchemized for one gem.

I tend to hoard my gems, but I suppose the best course depends on the situation. You know what spells your research is targeting, so you should have an idea of what the future demand will be. Early expansion is generally considered very important. If the Mystic is primarily for research at the moment, you might consider the danger of having a spell available but being unable to cast it because of a gem shortage.

[Alneyan]

Alchemising gems into gold early on can be a solution, if you *need* that money (if it allows you to build a Mystic for example, or if you need just one more gold coin to build a fort on this turn, and so on). I would probably not use the gems to buy a regular army, unless the situation was truly awful.

On the other hand, fire gems are not necessarily important in the game, as they are of limited use to most nations. Earth gems are likely more useful, and they give less when alchemised to gold, so you will probably not want to alchemise those. I would also stay away from alchemising astral pearls to fire pearls to get more gold, as astral pearls will be of use to all the nations. Even if you are no Astral nation, astral pearls can be converted in gems you need, like Death or Nature.

[Shmonk]

Thanks! I have learned yet another thing about Dom2. Here I was only doing the one way (fire or earth to gold, and everything else to pearl), not getting the part that it works the other way as well. This clears up a lot of things.

[Molog]

Turn 5

Made some agreements and deals.

I don't like the dom2 messaging interface, there is no way to see what messages you send or to who you send them when typing. I'm afraid I might send a message to the wrong person and reveal my secret alliance with Ermor.

Hector Stark(15 knights) is available for purchase at a 220 gold starting bid. Or 412 gold if you are Pangea.

Gynther Blukraft could be stolen from Aeroscale.

[Alneyan]

Oh, thanks for reminding me I should give a list of all players and their mails. It should be made available tonight or tomorrow morning (GMT). It would be much better to handle messaging by mails: it allows for easy reference, and is much faster... plus, good luck for correcting typos in a Dom 2 message. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[En Forcer]

No kidding! The email list would be quite handy.

[Agrajag]

As long as you don't post them in a way that they might get into some spam list...
Somehow every Email I have ended up flooded with Junk Mail, even those I took special care not to give out anywhere.
My current account is the only one I have left that is free of Junk Mail so far.
As for the latest turn, it seems to have gone pretty well.
The only thing Im worried about is that others seem to do way better than I do (as far as the statistics go atleast).

[Alneyan]

The roster with mails will be sent in a mail, as posting mails is a risky move.

[RibbonBlue]

"Secret alliance with Ermor" is he trying to double trick us and say he has an allaince when he really doesnt? does he really have an allance? who knows?!!

[Alneyan]

RibbonBlue said:
Who knows?!!



I do! I am mister know-it-all, you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Agrajag]

Just so everyone knows, my computer got infected with a nasty virus, I think I managed to overcome it (Yay for Norton + Task Manager!) but just in case I suddenly vanish, you'll know what happened.
That was a tough one to handle!
I had to AdAware it for all of its friends, I had to update my Norton Antivirus, I had to manually delete several files via cmd and I had to kill several proccesses so that I will be able to delete the master virus file.
If I was a bit smarter It would have probably taken only an hour, maybe half an hour, but it took my almost six :\.
So if your homepage is suddenly a spyware searchpage, your google results are sqewed (Lavasoft's AdAware replaced with Yavasoft's adaware) and your desktop suddenly changes, you'll know you got what I did, and that it can be defeated with Norton Antivirus.
Hooray for Norton!
*No, this is not a commercial for Norton*

EDIT: Interesting, even reinstalling the Google Toolbar after the virus was removed didnt fix it...
Maybe its something in the registery that the Google Toolbar doesnt delete when uninstalled...
Well, I hope this doesnt mean the virus is still here, and I can live without Google Toolbar...

[Molog]

Turn 6

I Check out the situation. Give some orders. Will take more decisions in the morning.

Find an enemy capital two provinces away from mine. Each person should be capable of conquering about 19 independent provinces before running out of room. So don't get nervous and start an early war causing both sides to lose the game.

[sushiboat]

Turn 6

Machaka gained a fifth province. Pangaea captured two provinces, for a total of four. Arcosephale also has four provinces now. Man, Ermor, and Marignon have three. Pythium and Jotunheim have two.

Pythium found a gem site. Machaka's research lags behind the rest.

Jotunheim hired Hector's Heavy Horsemen.

[Agrajag]

sushiboat said:
Turn 6
Pythium and Jotunheim have two.
Jotunheim hired Hector's Heavy Horsemen.


Im sure you can see the logic here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I see Im not faring so well, but its just the beginning of the game, so I'll wait before I declare myself dead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[En Forcer]

I agree with the assessment of not starting a war too soon. With so many indies, there is PLENTY of work to do before picking a fight with my neighbors.

[Shmonk]

Are we still waiting on someone for the next turn? I'm hoping we can get a few turns done this weekend (time permitting for everyone).

Mostly because I'm traveling next week (was selected at the last minute for a business trip), and I'm still trying to get a laptop so I can still submit my turns.

My company provided me a laptop, but it's BARELY able to play Dom2. It's a P2 366Mhz. I had to turn off all graphics and do a few command line switches just to get it semi-playable (though it has crashed several times for no reason). Hopefully I can get a faster laptop over the weekend. Worst case scenario, I'll give my orders to Alneyan to run the 2 turns that I may miss.

[Alneyan]

No turns for Man yet, but next turn should run in a couple of hours (because of the deadline).

[RibbonBlue]

I sent my turn..

[En Forcer]

Okay, is it just me or are all of these provinces pretty sparse? Given what I've conquered so far, I'm barely able to afford a mage! If my army wasn't so spunky and able, we'd have lost our shorts a long time ago. And what do we have to show for it? Handfulls of dust. Dust I say! How on earth did that last province even support the troops defending it?

Sheesh...

Can I research "frugal economy" or "thriftiness" or something?

[sushiboat]

Turn 7

The province count is as follows: 6 for Machaka, 5 for Arcosephale, 4 for Ermor and Pangaea, and 3 for Pythium, Man, and Jotunheim. Ermor and Pangaea found gems. Man hired Dagan the Sage.

[Molog]

Turn 7

I give more orders. I find two more players. My scouts haven't observed anything useful yet.

I notice Machaka and Marignon had a decrease in dominion. Possible contact with a high dominion Ermor?

Aeroscale is real low in dominion.

Machaka is biggest in income, army size and provinces. Lowest in research though.

Hector Stark died.

Urgeks beast brothers is for hire. Bunch of foul spawns under the command of an elephant commander. They're cheap, but not too good.

[RibbonBlue]

Yes i got dagan woot.!!

[Agrajag]

The last turn was a bit unpleasent, but atleast I learned the importance of correct troop placement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Anyway, things are still going as planned, or atleast close to that.

[Molog]

Turn 8

Vespur had a nasty accident, back to the lab for him/her. I made a mistake, gave it a militia escort http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Not much to report for the rest.

[RibbonBlue]

Wow this game is going really fast. We are doing about a turn a day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Shmonk]

I agree, and I love it. Now I can see why MP is better than SP, and to get into 2 or 3 games at a time to keep the interest in the game up.

Can't wait for the next turn to start - found a magic site called "casino", hoping to win some gold... though we all know the house always wins. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[RibbonBlue]

Wow a Casino! Ive never even seen those.

[sushiboat]

Turn 8

The province count is as follows: 7 for Machaka; 6 for Arcosephale; 5 for Pangaea; 4 for Pythium, Ermor, and Marignon; and 3 for Man and Jotunheim. Marignon and Machaka found gems.

[The Panther]

RibbonBlue said:
Wow a Casino! Ive never even seen those.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif He is pulling your chain. There ain't no such thing as a Casino site! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[RibbonBlue]

Ahh, okay, it seemed a bit out of place for a fantasy map.

[sushiboat]

Turn 9

The province tally is: Machaka 8, Arcosephale 6, Marignon 6, Pythium 5, Ermor 5, Pangaea 5, Jotunheim 4, and Man 3. Ermor has a second fort. Pythium and Ermor found gems. Ermor's army size is now a close second to Machaka's.

[Molog]

Turn 9

A strange whisper is going through the forests of pangea.

Someone supposed to keep a friendly distance from my dominion shows up with an army at my borders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. I'll be watching.

I've been checking out the scales in provinces under enemy dominions to learn more about the dominion choices of that player.

Ermors army and gems are starting to rocket up. Ermor also build/found the first castle.
Machaka is leading in provinces and income, but way below in research.
Earoscale is doing good too, but that low dominion could screw them up if they are neighbouring Ermor.

Dagan could be stolen from man.

Black beards pirates are for offer. Bunch of heavily armoured guys, can't remember if the leader had sailing ability.

Casino site might be real. I guess the developers might be adding new content from dominions 3 in dominions 2.

I encountered an independent air 2 and air six mage loaded with magic items, accompagnied by phantom warriors in a single player game a while back. Never saw that before.

[Shmonk]

Sorry, yes, I was joking about the casino magic site. I've been thinking about going to one over the holidays, and I thought it would make an interesting magic site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[BigDaddy]

Keep you hand closer or someone will shake you down http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[RibbonBlue]

Arg I am surounded by knights, I have to build up a huge force just to capture a province!

[Agrajag]

Hooray!
Internet Explorer has gone insane and now I have to use another computer to get my Emails
Its so much fun that now all of my turns will take longer to be submitted!
Or, in short, expect my turns to take longer untill I submit them.

[Molog]

If it's only internet explorer that is broken.

Windows explorer can also acces the internet.

If you still have a working internet connection and a ftp program you could download firefox internet browser from here: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0.4/win32/en-US/

[Agrajag]

Molog said:
If it's only internet explorer that is broken.

Windows explorer can also acces the internet.


The Windows Explorer is broken as well :/
I'll try Firefox, or I'll just use my other computer.
*Waiting for the next turn*

EDIT: BLEH, exactly why Im thinking about switching over to linux, after one reset everything is working again, for no logical reason.
Not that I mind things working, but I dont mind it when they just randomly break :\.
Well, now I can happily submit turns, as long as I get turns to submit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
And don't blame me for not thinking about reset straight away, Im trying to have this computer be reset free.

[sushiboat]

Turn 10

The province tally is: Machaka 9, Arcosephale 7, Ermor 7, Pythium 6, Marignon 6, Pangaea 5, Man 4, and Jotunheim 4. Over the last two turns, Marignon has had substantial income gains and has now overtaken Machaka (by a little) for first place in that category. Ermor found gems. Pangaea and Man lead in research. Ermor has taken over first place in army size from Machaka. Marignon now employs Dagan the Sage.

[Molog]

Turn 10

Not much important to report, except a strange whisper getting stronger.

[Ironhawk]

shmonk said:
I agree, and I love it. Now I can see why MP is better than SP, and to get into 2 or 3 games at a time to keep the interest in the game up.



Yeah shmonk, MP totally rules. I dont even understand anymore why people play SP. One thing to watch out for with MP games tho: as you move into the end-game your turns can sometimes get quite long (an hour or more). So if you have a lot of games all in the end phase you might get overwhlemed. Many MP players play in multiple games but stagger thier involvement. So once they reach late-game in one match, they will enter another match, knowing that the late-game will be over before the new game starts to take up too much time.

[Ironhawk]

RibbonBlue said:
Arg I am surounded by knights, I have to build up a huge force just to capture a province!



How many knights are we talking here Ribbon? Cause they usually range in the 5-10 area, which you should be able to counter with a handful of your own knights and the tactics I detailed earlier. Additionally, you can recruit some mages with 2A (2 Air) magic and script them to lightning bolt x5 and all your troops to Hold&amp;Attack and Fire. One or two mages like that will really savage a knight block. Be sure to bring chaff. And I really mean chaff! What is your cheapest unit? Slingers? Militia? Use those to sacrifice on the knight lances.

[The Panther]

sushiboat said:
Ermor has taken over first place in army size from Machaka.



One problem is that the army size graph does not take into account the relative worth of the actual troop. An Ermor soulless therefore counts exactly the same as an Ulm knight in the graph, when the knight is maybe 50 times as powerful. So Ermor will skyrocket to the top of the army size graph and eventually squash all the other nations into the bottom of the scale such that it becomes totally meaningless. Ermor with 7 provinces and high dominion (assuming he is either AE or SG) is plenty to begin the exponential growth in army size.

[RibbonBlue]

Ya, problem is I dont have enough gold to recruit a bunch of air two mages, or knights, but I am slowly taking out the knights with masses of spears to repel em, and LBS to fire at their archers to cause em to morale and flee.

[RibbonBlue]

Dang, I am close ermor as my scout just revealed, this could be a problem. Lucky I can handly recruit angels to smite him with and I have high Dom!!! Fere my Ermor for if you attack me the wrath of the heavens shall be brought apone you, and it shall be your doom!!!. Death to the Dead!!!

[Molog]

I'm just ignoring the knights + longbow provinces around my capital.

[Shmonk]

Who keeps hearing this whispering?? I hope it's not about me? I worry too much, it can't be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Shmonk]

Talk about slow turns. I'm travelling now, in a hotel room in Florida, and this laptop I'm using is SOOO slow (all that my work had available to give me). My turns take almost 30 minutes just to completely do and review everything, and watching battles is even longer, even with most graphics turned off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif It's a P2 366mhz, I guess at the extreme minimum requirements for Dom2.

But I can't wait to do more games, and I think I will wait until I return home before starting another MP game, assuming another beginner-type game is starting. I look forward to getting farther into this game also.

[sushiboat]

Turn 11

The province tally is: Machaka 9, Ermor 8, Pythium 7, Arcosephale 7, Marignon 7, Pangaea 6, Jotunheim 5, and Man 4. Pythium, Ermor, and Pangaea found gems.

[Molog]

Turn 11

Vespur now tops the hall of fame well deserved. Freaking 3 airmage commanders throwing lightning bolts, casting windguide and summoning skeletons and that vision foe crosbow was nasty too.

A mysterious old *censored* decides to *censored* for *censored* and *censored*.

In the whisper something about a seed can now be ascertained.

[Shmonk]

Hmmm... very "interesting" events this turn. At least for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And this whispering business... a seed... what type of seed? An acorn? A sunflower? I must know!!

[Agrajag]

A seed?
Sound like the seed of omnisciense (sp?) to me =P

[Molog]

Turn 12

Some weird crap happens.

A seed gets planted.

Dagan's contract with Marignon is almost over.

[Molog]

Some usefull links for me, might be usefull for other people.

http://www.sangster.org/dominions/grimorie.php
http://hep.nbi.dk/~kittel/dom2/
http://www.dominions-2.org/files.htm

[Alneyan]

The first link should be changed to something like: http://www.sangster.org/dominions/grimorie.php

Alternatively, you should "hide" that long URL, by using the ["url=address] text [/url] code (without the initial ").

[Agrajag]

Just wondering, isnt the word Grimoire?

[Alneyan]

It ought to be, but it has been spelt "Grimorie" quite often in Dominions, if not always (in my Dom 2 manual for example). I guess some typos die hard.

[sushiboat]

Turn 12

The province tally is: Machaka 10, Ermor 9, Marignon 8, Pythium 7, Arcosephale 7, Pangaea 6, Jotunheim 6, and Man 5. Pangaea and Machaka found gems. Man leads in research, with Pangaea and Arco close behind.

[Molog]

Turn 13

I'm starting to lag behind.

I water a seed.

Dagan has been bought by Ermor.

Jotunheim has bough rexors barbarians. Barbarians hit hard, but tend to run away easily.

[sushiboat]

Turn 13

The province tally is: Machaka 11, Ermor 9, Marignon 9, Pythium 8, Arcosephale 7, Pangaea 6, Jotunheim 6, and Man 5. Pythium, Ermor, and Marignon found gems. Jotunheim commands Rexor's Barbarians, and Ermor now employs Dagan the Sage.

[Ironhawk]

Just a random thought for newbies. I consider it a rule of thumb to get 1 province/turn for about the first 6 to 8 turns and then 2 provinces/turn after that. Going up to 3/turn on larger maps where you dont contact a player.

[Shmonk]

Yes, but how do you expand at 2 a turn and still search the sites you've conquered and still do research? It seems to me that you can either conquer first and search later, or conquer and search at the same time, while still deciding when to do research.

Just thinking out loud.

Still trying to look for some new "growth" that this mysterious seed has supposedly taken root. I'm afraid it's some giant darkvine, but luckily I can't see it yet, if that's the case (or I'm far enough away that it doesn't appear on the horizon). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[CyborgMoses]

I'm thinking it's probably crabgrass. That stuff gets everywhere.

[Alneyan]

Basically, you will want to reach an average of one province per turn (more if possible), but since you cannot take two provinces on the first turn (on Independents 6 at least), that means taking a few more provinces on the way.

As soon as possible, the capital should be recruiting one mage per turn, with other provinces recruiting the mundane commanders needed for leadership. Most nations have access to a cheap mage for research: the Daughter of Avalon for Man is a prime example. Some nations have access to mages cheap to recruit, and others cheap to maintain: for example, Marignon has both the Initiate and the Inquisitor, and they give the same amount of research. However, the Initiate is more expensive to maintain, since he is not holy, while the Inquisitor will cost you more to recruit. In those cases, you should see if you would rather have a couple of priests just in case (undead invasion, Pretender being killed...), or if you cannot afford more than those 65 gold coins for the Initiate. If you are wealthy, you can go the Witch Hunter way, for a faster research, or even the Grand Master... but recruiting one Grand Master a turn may be difficult.

Still, you should not expect to be able to research and search sites at the same time if you need some of your mages for expansion. The low-level mages (Inquisitor and Initiate) are good for research though, so those will likely stay at home and not do anything else. A couple of Grand Masters should handle your magic searching, along with your Pretender, if needed. Site searching is likely less important than expansion however, unless you are considering selling a province: in this case, either you search for sites to see if you should really sell the province, or you don't search it and let your neighbour do the job. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I would rather search for sites in this case though, as giving them a -50% blood site would *hurt*.

[Molog]

Things haven't gone exactly the way I wanted them to go. I'm still going to go on till the end and if I fail I can always start chanting the loser mantra "I might not win, but I can surely influence who does win".

[Agrajag]

Molog said:
Things haven't gone exactly the way I wanted them to go. I'm still going to go on till the end and if I fail I can always start chanting the loser mantra "I might not win, but I can surely influence who does win".


How about "I had a chance of 1:8 in the first place"?
Maybe "I knew I was going to lose from the get-go"?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

EDIT:
A question for the experts:
Which is more dangerous, a province of Tribal Warriors + Tribal Archers or a province of Heavy Cavalry + Heavy Infantry?

[Saber Cherry]

Agrajag said:
EDIT:
A question for the experts:
Which is more dangerous, a province of Tribal Warriors + Tribal Archers or a province of Heavy Cavalry + Heavy Infantry?



Knights / Longbows or Heavy Cav / Heavy Inf are very dangerous.
Tribals are not dangerous at all. You might want to use archers against them, as they have little armor and no shields. They also use daggers so any melee units can repel them, even units with axes or shortswords.

[The Panther]

The heavy cavalry provinces are one of the hardest ones to take, especially early in the game. There are three level of HC provinces where they have increasing levels of armor. The only way to know which you are up against is to attack with a scout on retreat and examine the armor on the cavs during the battle.

The lowest level of armor is not that much harder than the standard Heavy Infantry province. The middle level is getting very tough, and the highest level is even tougher than the knight provinces.

On the other hand, tribal warriors and tribal archers is quite easy. They suffer from the usual low morale problem of barbarians. Try to get them to retreat with your own archers guarded by high protection infantry spaced around the battlefield as targets for the enemy arrows. It is not unusal to take such provinces with 0-2 troops lost, especially if your infantry comes equipped with a shield (which protects from incoming arrows).

[Agrajag]

Thanks for all the tips, almost everything you said was useful, and now I have a much more sound attack plan.
I think I'll have to submit my turn tomorrow though (to the disappointment of everyone, Im sure) since its pretty late and Im pretty busy :\

[Oversway]

This is what I usually do to go after knight or calvary provinces earlier on in the game:

The army
--------

A group of militia or otherwise cheapo troops (one of the few times I buy them). I put these near the front of the tactics box. Have them attack closest or hold and attack, doesn't matter.

A group of good line troops. Slow, high armor, decent morale.

Crossbowman set to fire calvary (or fire closest, it usually doesn't matter since mounted independant troops are almost always at the front due to high movement). You can count on 1 or 2 volleys

The concept
-----------

The militia are there to absorb the lance attacks and maybe slow the calvary down a little. They'll pretty much get mowed down and you can have a good laugh. You want just the right amount - the best is when the calvary kill all of them, because its annoying to have them retreat all over your provinces.

Your line troops are there to hold the calvary in place while your xbows hurt them with . The more the better. Having a priest with sermon of courage or fanatacism helps here. If you have some spare battlemages with armor piercing/armor negating spells (stellar lights is a good one with evoc 1), or poison or fear spells, it can only help.

--

Again this is more for early game. You can do a lot more nasty things to calvary once you get some high powered magic going, or assassins, or whatnot. But I find that calvary provinces are usually high gold and that can really help early on.

Also, there are many ways to augment this. Sometimes I try to set it up so some weak prot but heavy hitters (like barbarians) attack the calvary after they hit the line. I'd say it the barbs help about 50% of the time. Although even when it does work, the barbarians are just useless fodder. Better to have more line troops if possible.


I'd be interested if others do things differently.

[Ironhawk]

shmonk said:
Yes, but how do you expand at 2 a turn and still search the sites you've conquered and still do research? It seems to me that you can either conquer first and search later, or conquer and search at the same time, while still deciding when to do research.




Its a balance, as with all things, shmonk. But you first need to acquire the province in order to search it, right? So, better to put all your efforts into grabbing every possible province before your enemies can get there before you. Then go back through and search them all for the mid/late game power. Occassionally, if I am desperate for gems and feel confident of my research situation, I will send out a mage in the early game to do a lot of searching.

[sushiboat]

Turn 14

Pangaea cast the global enchantment Mother Oak. The province tally is: Machaka 12, Ermor 11, Marignon 10, Arcosephale 8, Jotunheim 8, Pythium 7, Pangaea 6, and Man 6. Machaka has a new fort and so now has a total of two, along with Ermor. Machaka had a substantial rise in income and is now the clear category leader. Pangaea increased gem income (i.e., Mother Oak), as did Jotunheim. Obscuro the Hidden Master and the Armored Fist of God are available for hire.

[Molog]

Turn 14

I cast mother oak a couple of turns behind on schedule.

I prepare for expansion.

Ermor is now leading in everything, except income.

Rexors barbarians have died.

Edit: Don't forget that clams and fever festishes don't show up in the graphs.

[sushiboat]

Molog said:
Ermor is now leading in everything, except income.


Ermor is second in provinces and fourth in research.

[Molog]

True. That's what I get for doing turns late at night.

[CyborgMoses]

Hmm... how can you get the research necessary for Mother Oak at turn 14 and still keep churning out armies?

[Ironhawk]

Mother Oak is only Enchant 5, isnt it?

With a relatively strong magic pretender (not to mention the assumed national researcher support) that should be possible.

[Molog]

Alteration 5.

Alteration has all the spells for a sc pretender, which could take one province a turn from turn 5.

Satyr hoplites with protection on them can deal with the weaker independents.

Ofcourse this is all speculation and has nothing to do with the current game.

[Alneyan]

Status update here as my SMTP has died on me, so I cannot send mails via my standard mail program right now.

I am missing turns for Arcoscephale, Jotunheim and Man.

[RibbonBlue]

Wait, what do I do then? Can I still send you my turns?

[Alneyan]

You can send them just fine; I am simply unable of sending them through my mail program (well, I was unable, it seems to be working now).

[Molog]

Turn 15

Not much to report

[sushiboat]

Turn 15

The province tally is: Machaka 14, Ermor 12, Marignon 11, Pythium 8, Arcosephale 8, Jotunheim 8, Man 7, and Pangaea 6. Man, Ermor, and Jotunheim found gems. Man hired Obscuro, and <font color="#666666">Marignon</font> Machaka hired the Armored Fist of God. God's Justice is available for hire, and Dagan is open for bidding again.

Edit: It was Machaka, not Marignon, that hired the Armored Fist of God.

[CyborgMoses]

Whoo! I have conquered the most useless, unprofitable provinces! Yay?

[sushiboat]

CyborgMoses said:
Whoo! I have conquered the most useless, unprofitable provinces! Yay?


Your nation's income is the highest, so you must be doing something right to bring in the gold.

[CyborgMoses]

Wait, it is? Damn, this is a poor world. I am perpetually broke.

[RibbonBlue]

Ya, I thought I had pretty low income, then I look at the graphs and I was up there. I have not been looking at the graphs until now.

[RibbonBlue]

Fe Fi Fo Fum I Smell Marignon Scum!!!

[Shmonk]

Just a correction, Machaka, not Marignon, bought the Armored Fist of God.

I started to ask myself, I hired someone? And I haven't used them yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Shmonk]

Moi? Is my stench that bad? My inquisitors are making the filthy masses bathe, so I can't think it's that bad.

Are you sure you aren't confusing me with that nasty little god who likes spiders? hehehehe

[sushiboat]

shmonk said:
Just a correction, Machaka, not Marignon, bought the Armored Fist of God.

I started to ask myself, I hired someone? And I haven't used them yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif


Oops, you're right. Damn those similarly colored standards!

[RibbonBlue]

Hmm. I could be doing that.

[sushiboat]

Turn 16

The province tally is: Machaka 16, Ermor 15, Marignon 11, Pythium 9, Arcosephale 9, Jotunheim 8, Man 8, and Pangaea 7. Man found gems. Ermor had a substantial loss in army size. Ermor rehired Dagan the Sage.

[Molog]

Turn 16

Not much too report.

Starting to get scared for my survival a bit.

[Alneyan]

Some unsolicited advice: most nations stand to gain quite a lot by building forts here and there. A fort serves several purposes:

- If a province is protected by a fort, it cannot be taken in a single turn: at the very least, the attackers will need to spend two turns to take a fortified city, possibly more if the fort has a higher defence. A single turn may be all you need to bring in reinforcements: the Faery Trod spell (Nature) and Gateway (Astral) allow a commander to travel with all the units under his/her command. Faery Trod only works to reach forests, and Gateway requires a lab in the targetted province (Astral Travel lifts this requirement).

- Similarly, a province protects your buildings, especially the temples (automatically destroyed if you lose the province). Ideally, every temple will be protected by a temple, as otherwise some cheap raiders could make you lose those 200 gold coins, along with the usual expenses of defeat.

- A fort protects the units and commanders it contains. This can be a problem sometimes, as you cannot both research/forge/blood hunt and fight an attacking party. Still, your mages should be protected whenever possible, and you probably do not want your sages/blood hunters to be left in the open. Magical attacks can still reach commanders hiding in the fort however: those include Earth Attack, Mind Hunt and Flames from Afar/the Skies.

- A fort protects the sites contained in the province. If a province produces several gems a turn, you will likely want to keep it well under control, especially if you make heavy use of those gems. Sites giving large bonuses (a discount on all spells of a certain school) or giving nice independent mages should be protected with special care too.

- A fort allows you to recruit all your national units and commanders. Most nations can recruit good national mages outside their capital, freeing the main fortress to recruit your most powerful mage every turn. If nothing else, a fort could allow you to recruit that Assassin you so badly want, without having to sacrifice one turn of mage recruitment in the capital. Some nations will gain a lot from being able to recruit several mages every turn, while others will have so-so mages outside the capital (Man only has the Bard for example, while Caelum can recruit all its mages everywhere).

- A fort should increase income by a percentage equal to %admin, and will double resource production in the province; it also drains resources from neighbouring provinces. Lastly, if you are besieged, you will still get *some* income from the province (not much, but some), and you will keep all the victory points of the province.

[sushiboat]

Turn 17

The province tally is: Machaka 17, Ermor 17, Marignon 12, Pythium 9, Arcosephale 9, Jotunheim 9, Man 8, and Pangaea 7. Man has a new fort. Pythium, Man, Ermor, Jotunheim, and Machaka found gems. Pangaea had a substantial increase in army size. Burelk's City Guard is available for hire. Contracts for Obscuro and the Armored Fist of God are up for renewal.

[Molog]

Turn 17

Everything going its merry way.

[RibbonBlue]

Woot. I found some very useful for me sites.
And...
Jotuy
I
Realy
Dislike
Those
Giants
On
My
Border!

[Agrajag]

Then move your borders elsewhere =P
I really dislike those longbowmen on my border!
And such a nice watch tower you have there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[RibbonBlue]

My longbowmen move around, you giants have sat there for several turns.

[Ironhawk]

All new players should read this thread (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=356846&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1) that QM just authored in the main forum. It contains one of the most valuable guides to exploiting the power of your pretender or other powerful SC.

[RibbonBlue]

Ya, I just read it, it was a good read

[sushiboat]

sushiboat said:
Turn 17

The province tally is: Machaka 17, Ermor 17, Marignon 12, Pythium 9, Arcosephale 9, Jotunheim 9, Man 8, and Pangaea 7. Man has a new fort. Pythium, Man, Ermor, Jotunheim, and Machaka found gems. Pangaea had a substantial increase in army size. Burelk's City Guard is available for hire. Contracts for Obscuro and the Armored Fist of God are up for renewal.


One more thing from the graphs .... Machaka appears not to have done any research in the last turn. Eating its seed corn? Machaka has no competition for last place in research.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/357061-Research_Turn17.jpg

[RibbonBlue]

Maybe machaka did a mass summoning, or attacked with all its

[Shmonk]

Well, at least Machaka is in last place with something.

I'm middle to bottom of the road on most graphs, coming in last on dominion. Grrr!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

[Agrajag]

RibbonBlue said:
My longbowmen move around, you giants have sat there for several turns.


Yeah, they have really good chairs in that province, must have a "Chair Artisan Guild" site http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[En Forcer]

Or they have a pub. Really good ale...

&gt;hic!&lt;

[Shmonk]

C'mon, they are giants. They probably just got confused walking around and don't know what to do now, because they forgot already. So they're just standing around waiting for instructions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[En Forcer]

Okay this is really odd. I shot a turn back (inside of 15 minutes) after I got the latest turn yesterday. I've been waiting for the next turn to happen and then it turns out folks are waiting on me. Sorry to everyone if this is my fault but maybe I'm not getting all the emails?

Alneyan, can you do a read confirmation receipt on 1 or 2 emails to me to make sure they are getting to me?

Thanks.

[Shmonk]

Aha! You're the culprit! hehehe Just kidding. I was on a mini vacation the last week, so I was slow submitting a turn or two. But I'm hoping we can get in a few turns this weekend. Things are just now getting interesting.

[Alneyan]

I am not sure how mail receipts work, but I will try it out. You are not the only one who failed to get turns lately; I believe Yahoo's SMTP has been having a lot of trouble recently. I will probably try to send my mails from Gawab's SMTP from now on, though I am not sure if there will be much of an improvement.

It is very odd that I failed to get your mail however. You should use both mails (a standard reply should result in that) to reduce problems on this end: if there is a problem on my side, having two mails should solve it. Of course, if you have a problem sending mails too, it will not help much. Sadly, I believe most problems are likely to be on the side of the sender, rather than on the receiver.

New turn is being sent.

[Agrajag]

I was wondering, other than death sites, what kind of sites can cause an increase in unrest?
Also, it seems that my cold scales are none-existant (that is, not a single one of my provinces is cold, including the capital!), is there any explanation other than I somehow forgot to take my cold scale? :\

[Molog]

Blood sites cause unrest.

If none of your provinces are cold then you forgot to take your cold scale.

[Alneyan]

You should expect your temperature scale to be different by 1 from the picked value, most of the time, due to the climate. If you have seen no Cold provinces in 18 turns, then you did forget to take the scale (and with Cold 2, you should have at least Cold 1 even in summer, and Cold 2/3 in the other seasons).

If a province gets 15 unrest per turn, you should search for Blood sites: only one site gives that much unrest (if memory serves), and it will allow you to summon one devil per turn. 5 unrest per turn is usually a Brigand's Lair, but not always.

[Agrajag]

Okay, thanks for the advice.
I think I remember a while ago there was a reported bug where scales wouldn't show up, even after many turns (I think it was someone who took the Order scales and never got it, even after 30 turns, in his capital. Or was that bug squashed in a recent patch?

[Alneyan]

It could be the same problem indeed. The 2.16 patch does nothing to solve the problem: in the 2vs2, Panther playing as R'lyeh had several scales missing on turn 2. I don't know if heat/cold scales can disappear that way, but why not?

[sushiboat]

Turn 18

The province tally is: Machaka 18, Ermor 18, Marignon 12, Arcosephale 10, Pythium 9, Jotunheim 9, Man 9, and Pangaea 8. Machaka has a new fort and is now the category leader with a total of three forts. Man is now clearly in second place for income, though it is well behind first place Machaka. Ermor and Jotunheim found gems, and Machaka has lost some gem income. Ermor is now tied with Pangaea for third place in research. Marignon had a substantial increase in dominion and moved from last place to fifth. Man rehired Obscuro. The Armored Fist of God is still unemployed. Victor's Villains and Dagan the Sage will also be open for bidding. In the Hall of Fame, Marignon is doing well with three living celebrities. Arco has two living celebrities.

[RibbonBlue]

I have 2nd highest income, arg, I feel so poor.

[RibbonBlue]

I got jotuys 2h file and mans(me) trn file for turn 17 and not turn 18.

[Molog]

Turn 18

My scouts finally find Man. I'm looking at your homeprovince now, Man.

My sitesearching spells consistently fail to find sites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Agrajag]

Molog said:
My scouts finally find Man. I'm looking at your homeprovince now, Man.



I'd suggest you evacuate that scout right now, if he means anything to you.

[RibbonBlue]

I can't play cause the turn file i got was for turn 17 and I also got jotuys 2h file argle nargle!!!

[Alneyan]

I have resent the correct turn file several hours ago (about 15 minutes after I got your mail, perhaps slightly less).

[RibbonBlue]

Ya, I just chcked now.

[RibbonBlue]

Great, so I get your email, got here to respond and now gmail has a server error!. Arg

[En Forcer]

Okay, it seems I am caught up turn-wise. You should have also received my latest turn.

[Molog]

Did you recieve statusmail?

[RibbonBlue]

Okay, gmail started working again. I sent my turn.

[sushiboat]

In case the gmail users are still having problems, here is Alneyan's latest status mail:


Greetings,

I didn't get Man's turn on either of my addresses. The file turn should
be uploaded to Shrapnel if possible, in case the next mails with that
file do not make it to my address (I believe the problem was on Gmail's
end).

Alneyan



I am not sure what Alneyan has in mind when asking people to upload turn files to Shrapnel. As far as I know, you can't send attachments by PM.

I suppose that someone could use encryption to post a file publicly, and only the intended recipient (Alneyan) would have the decryption key. However, using encryption would be extra work and a possible source of kinks.

[Alneyan]

It just means that Man should upload their turn file publicly here (or on another FTP). The .2h file might be used to get information on them, but that would require quite a knowledge of how the game works (I guess you could figure out the master password on your own if you have such knowledge).

[RibbonBlue]

Ill email it again but how do I attach a file?

[Alneyan]

When posting a message, tick "I want to preview my post and/or attach a file". Then you will have the option to attach a file. It won't be needed this time around though, as the turn has run fine.

I did get the turns for Arcoscephale and Man; those were on the Gawab mail I had to use to send some turns (Yahoo's SMTP is becoming awful). I don't know why the reply-to fields didn't work as expected though (no mail should go to my Gawab address). I also got a delivery failure there, which explains why Arcoscephale didn't get turn 18 the first time around. As the Mailer Deamon puts it, "CNAME lookup failed temporarily. (#4.4.3) I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long". Now perhaps he could warn me earlier when there is a problem? The message stayed in the queue for roughly... four days before I got that mail.

In other words, those mail problems should be solved, more or less. I hope so.

[Molog]

Turn 19

Everything going its merry way.

My sitesearching still isn't finding any sites.

[sushiboat]

Turn 19

The province tally is: Machaka 19, Ermor 19, Marignon 13, Arcosephale 10, Pythium 10, Jotunheim 10, Man 10, and Pangaea 8. Pythium, Arco, Ermor, and Marignon found gems. Ermor passed Pangaea in research to hold third place solo. Ermor rehired Dagan, and Marignon now employs Victor's Villains. Marignon now has four living celebrities in the Hall of Fame.