ATGM = SAM

[serg3d]

I've confirmed: ATGM hitting high-altitude helos. I'm losing more helos from ATGM then from SAM. Top-attack ATGM especially bad because helo don't have armor on the "turret" . I suggest to give AI a free SAM infantry platoon and remove abilty hit helo with ATGM.

[FJ_MD]

Oh well, ATGM have antihelicopter role as a secondary task...

[serg3d]

Hmm, after some googling I have to agree,
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1988/MMB.htm
But stiil it related to llow-altitude helos. Shouldn't high-altitude be immune to ATGM?

[Mobhack]

serg3d said:
Hmm, after some googling I have to agree,
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1988/MMB.htm
But stiil it related to llow-altitude helos. Shouldn't high-altitude be immune to ATGM?



"helo high" is not 50,000 feet, it is a bit higher than helo low. Think 500 feet or so, maybe 1K feet. Helo low is the sort of altitude we were inserted by Pumas on Salisbury Plain, as we went round below the hills you could swear you saw the rotors decapitating rabbits on the slopes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

Easily reached by ATGM - and if ATGM are plinking you it is because you are hovering up there giving the OPFOR a nice target. Once you get up to speed (2-5 hexes travelled) then you are travelling too fast for ATGM engagement or being bisected by tank gun APDS etc.

Cheers
Andy

[IanWilliams]

Think of your helos as sharks: If they are not moving they are dead.

[DRG]

As Andy says, High helo isn't the same as say, bombers for example. Low for Helo's is tree top and High would be 500-1000 feet. That's one of those little things we ( Andy and I )have always just assumed and in turn assumed everyone else knew this as well but that's obviously not the case and we probably should have included a note about that in the GG.

Don

[ueauvan]

would javelin top down capability affect this ability to hit helos?

[Viper]

A helo's cruise alt is one thing, usually around 2-3k, but depending on conditions helo's can get well over 6K alt. The main reason for flying at high altitude is to avoid sound detection in a Radar/Sam free environment. If you dropping inf/trash into a remote area free from Radar/thermal detection means then it's your "whack",rotor noise, that your concerned with. I was an Avionics Tech and AO/AG, aerial observer/Gunner for CH-53Ds. Unless we got above 6K alt we could be detected by ground troops not otherwise occupied. You spiral to alt, between 6-10k, then cruise to Lz/Dz area then bury the collective and trim back the engines until your 3k or so. It makes you drop fast and silent. Troops in the Dz/Lz area will still hear ya but at least the troops between point A and point B did't have a clue you were overhead. Getting ATGM to get close to a high flying helo would be a serious trick considering most of them with the range needed, are vehicle mounted and can't point much higher then 30 degrees. This is from personal knowledge and I am sure there are plenty of weapon systems out there that I haven't seen. I mid alt slow flying helo I can see being a hard to hit target for ATGM. But a "turfing", tree top flight or high Alt helo is pretty much untouchable by ATGM systems in most if not all situations IMO. I don't see Tows or Hellfires turning fast enough to even keep up with a helo unless he's in a hover or really slow. Some helo's are bigger the tanks, mainly the CH models, but we are also a lot faster and a hell of a lot more agile.

I guess there are two ways around this if you wanted to touch it. Make a Cruise. Mid ranged alt setting or make High alt closer to 8-10K alt. At that Alt, spotting anything standing still or smaller then an APC in the open is all but impossible. High Alt flights and drop down insertions were common practice and we trained on the tactic.

[PlasmaKrab]

I don't see Tows or Hellfires turning fast enough to even keep up with a helo unless he's in a hover or really slow.

That is precisely the point. AFVs fire their main guns and ATGMs on low-alt, hovering helos only (mainly).
Some modern ATGMs are meant to be fired at helos when need arises (BILL, Javelin...), and if you ask TOW gunners, they should have been trained to fire at atack helos in self-defence.