Security - Player 2 has already played this turn?

[Stian]

Hi I just got this weird bug in WinSPMBT:
This is the second PBEM game I'm playing with a friend, and after we've both moved on turn 1 we keep getting the message "Security - Player 2 has already played this turn?" and the save won't load at all.

I've never seen this error before, and it seems quite illogical as an error - I mean, *of course* player 2 (which is me) already has played the turn, and it's now player 1s turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Any ideas what might cause this message? We are playing scenario 103 Chess France 1952, france vs france, and we both use windows XP - if that helps.

regards,
Stian

[czerpak]

does any of players plays on 2 different machines ?

[Stian]

We only play the game on one machine each.

This happened several times in a row so I decided to do a reinstall, and the bug seems to be gone - for the moment at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Could the file 'PBEMRegistry.dat' have anything to do with save files being corrupted? Any ideas what this file is actually for? I notice that it's not been modified at all since installing the game so apparently nothing gets written into it by the save process.

Stian

[DRG]

Stian said:
We only play the game on one machine each.

This happened several times in a row so I decided to do a reinstall, and the bug seems to be gone - for the moment at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Could the file 'PBEMRegistry.dat' have anything to do with save files being corrupted? Any ideas what this file is actually for? I notice that it's not been modified at all since installing the game so apparently nothing gets written into it by the save process.

Stian



PBEMRegistry.dat would have nothing whatsoever to do with the problem you had.

Don

[Mobhack]

Stian said:
Hi I just got this weird bug in WinSPMBT:
This is the second PBEM game I'm playing with a friend, and after we've both moved on turn 1 we keep getting the message "Security - Player 2 has already played this turn?" and the save won't load at all.

I've never seen this error before, and it seems quite illogical as an error - I mean, *of course* player 2 (which is me) already has played the turn, and it's now player 1s turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Any ideas what might cause this message? We are playing scenario 103 Chess France 1952, france vs france, and we both use windows XP - if that helps.

regards,
Stian



Has one of yu exited with the save to resume your turn feature (blue upwards arrow) and then sent the game in that part-finished state to the opposing player?.

(If you save to resume the turn is not finished - you need to re-enter the turn and complete it with the red > end turn arrow of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Also - has someone sent the wrong files to the other player, or one of you has unzipped the files to the wrong place (so the game is still trying to load your last turn as it was not overwritten)

Cheers
Andy

[Stian]

My opponent and I almost never use the resume feature and Im sure it was not used in this game as it was only turn 1.

We use the PBEM Helper to take care of save locations and unzipping files to the correct folders and I'm pretty sure it works like it should, i.e. unzips the savefiles to the 'PBEM Games' folder. Anyhow, if the game tried to load the last finished turn would it not just ask for the next players password instead of refusing to load at all?

I've also noticed when pressing '1' that the number of saves/fails for player 2 is *way* off, I can't remember the exact numbers but something like 300 loads, fails and exits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif ... could this be related?

Stian

[DRG]

Stian said:
My opponent and I almost never use the resume feature and Im sure it was not used in this game as it was only turn 1.

We use the PBEM Helper to take care of save locations and unzipping files to the correct folders and I'm pretty sure it works like it should, i.e. unzips the savefiles to the 'PBEM Games' folder. Anyhow, if the game tried to load the last finished turn would it not just ask for the next players password instead of refusing to load at all?





If this happens to you again using "PBEM Helper" try not using it



Stian said:
I've also noticed when pressing '1' that the number of saves/fails for player 2 is *way* off, I can't remember the exact numbers but something like 300 loads, fails and exits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif ... could this be related?

Stian



As you were player 2 I assume you'd remember starting and stopping 300 times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif. Right now this sounds like a corrupted DAT file for some reason. I know whe've never seen the saves and loads like that before

Don

[Pyros]

Ok,
I ve seen these strange numbers many times while playing SP-variants.
I have seen numbers like 12,456,397 load/quit etc... LOL
Most of the times the problem is connected with big maps and very small intervals between the save/end turn and zip process... I know its sounds weird (again) but the only protection is to wait 3 seconds before doing anything after you press the end turn... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (I speak by experience)

cheers,
Pyros

[czerpak]

I have seen it (500 quits) in winMBt game I am playing right now.

Also had 'security' problems exactly same as stated above, but not in win ver yet. usually fresh install helped.

[DRG]

czerpak said:
I have seen it (500 quits) in winMBt game I am playing right now.

Also had 'security' problems exactly same as stated above, but not in win ver yet. usually fresh install helped.




Send me a copy of the game with your passwords if you can. When you start another one next time try what Pyros suggests and give the game a few seconds extra before zipping up the turn. You might also try not running PBEM Helper for a game

Don

[czerpak]

DRG said:

czerpak said:
I have seen it (500 quits) in winMBt game I am playing right now.

Also had 'security' problems exactly same as stated above, but not in win ver yet. usually fresh install helped.




Send me a copy of the game with your passwords if you can. When you start another one next time try what Pyros suggests and give the game a few seconds extra before zipping up the turn. You might also try not running PBEM Helper for a game

Don



Will do, sir. Just let me kow where to.
Also, I dont archive turns, so I will send last turn I have.
BTW I NEVER use PBEM helpers, so it is not the cause. And besides funny number of loads/quits game behaves as it should.

[Pyros]

Maciej,

You may attach it to your post,
First edit your post and then upload the zip file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

cheers,

[czerpak]

I know, but then again I need to send my pass somewhere.
Or maybe I send it to you, Pyros.

[DRG]

Zip up the turns and include a TXT file with the passwords then attach all three to your post

Don

[czerpak]

There is some misunderstanding here - I do know how it can be done techncally but I dont want my pass to be widely known.

[Pyros]

Ok Maciej,

send your password to me.

cheers mate,
Pyros

p.s send it in the email we use to contact.
ps. don't worry... I will try to make your password globally known! LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Suurajatollah]

Hi guys,

I also have this same "Player 2 has already played this turn" problem with one of my PBEM-game. I have the right files and the turn is finished properly. Though it was started again few times before ending. It didn't quite occure to me when reading this thread: is there a cure for this problem and is it possible to finish the game?

Thanks!

Olli

[hogrider18]

MD and I have had the same problem with not being able to get back into a PBEM game in progress.Our forst game went 20 of 40 turns, before we got locked out. THe map soze was 120x100 and 8000pts, then same map size and 6,000pts. We both tried setting up small PBEM games to try again and had no luck playing after inital set up. I finally got fed up and deleted the PBEMregistry.dat file and set up a small 1000pt game, which has gone well so far into turn 3.
What is the file used for anyone? The game seems to play OK without it, so far. Biker

[DRG]

hogrider18 said:
I finally got fed up and deleted the PBEMregistry.dat file and set up a small 1000pt game, which has gone well so far into turn 3.
What is the file used for anyone? The game seems to play OK without it, so far. Biker



It's not used for anything at all. It's left over from an old idea that we didn't pursue but may in the future. However, if you suddenly find you can play OK please do let us know and we'll see if it helps anyone else having this problem. There is one (1) line in the code for that file but it's quite literally calling nothing since none of the code that uses PBEMRegistry.dat is "hooked up" to anything connected to a regular PBEM game.

What I *seem* to be seeing here is a few people having repeated problems. I would assume if everyone couldn't finish a PBEM we would have been flooded with these reports by now.

At this time all I can suggest is if you have more than a couple of instances of failed secure PBEM to.....

1] re-install the game

2] DO NOT be too quick to zip up the turn after ending it. If anyone is zipping it up before exiting the game completely....stop doing that. I don't *think* that's casuing a problem but I don't know that for sure either

3] Always......... ALWAYS remember that any attempt to play the game in anything but the game you started it on will eventually end in failure. I'm not saying that is the problem now but we have had cases in the past where people try to play a turn at home then finish it on their laptop on the way to work so I'm just reminding everyone ( gently ) you CANNOT DO THAT!

When Andy gets back I will review these issues and we'll see if we can figure out what may be happening. Keep in mind both he and I DID test this and what is being reported DID NOT happen to us. Rest assured I DO understand that having a game crap out just as it's getting interesting is not fun and does not generally give people a warm and fuzzy feeling. IF it is the game getting confused we'll obviously need to fix this but right now I'm leaning towards a file handling issue

Let us review for a minute.

a]Player one is sending a turn to player 2 and when player 2 tried to open it the message " Player two has already played this turn" pops up???

b] This is accompanied by unusually high reports about loads and saves??

[Suurajatollah]

Let us review for a minute.

a]Player one is sending a turn to player 2 and when player 2 tried to open it the message " Player two has already played this turn" pops up???

b] This is accompanied by unusually high reports about loads and saves??




In my case:

a)Player 2 sends his turn and Player 1 gets message: "Player 2 has already played this turn"

b) This was accompanied by 10-20 player 1- and 15-30 player 2- loads and saves. Plus 2 or 3 player 1 fails and 5-8 player 2 fails. For what I remember...

[DRG]

Here's what I need for someone. I don't care who.

I need the turn that gives the "Player 2 has already played this turn" message AND I need the passwords for both players AND this has to be a game set up to the default folders the game installer was set up to extract the files to. If you've moved it somewhere else I don't want the saves.

I also need the same thing from anyone who is seeing an extraordinary number of loads and saves or fails messages. I need to see that and I need as much information as you can give me about it and everyone NEEDS to be honest here... Has someone been doing some un-official "testing" of the security?? ( that's the polite way of saying they have been trying to cheat. If yes... PLEASE just admit it. It's just too easy to blame the game when someones " creativity" goes badly wrong. I'm NOT saying that IS what has happend but I am say that COULD be what happens SOMETIMES). Has either side done a lot of "save and finish the turn later? exits??

If anyone HAS had the "Player 2 has already played this turn" problem but cannot send me a save I need to know what save slot you were using when it crapped out ( it might be important.....or not. I won't know until people tell me )

I also need to know if there was an extraordinary event during the turn that was sent that gave the message. For example, did ten ammo dumps explode ? was there a big para drop ? Did someone's HQ die? Did your power fade out just as you were zipping up the turn? Did you zip up the turn using Windows Explorer WHILE the game was still running?

Don

[Thexder]

I'm changing my laptop to a new one in two weeks time and was wondering if this causes any problems with the WinSPMBT game files. I'm currently playing four games and at least two of them wont be ready by the time I receive my new laptop and give the old one to my sister.
So should I just istall the game to the new laptop and unzip the old games to the PBEM folder or do I need to do something more complicated in order to make them work?

Thanks,
Jukka

[Mobhack]

Thexder said:
I'm changing my laptop to a new one in two weeks time and was wondering if this causes any problems with the WinSPMBT game files. I'm currently playing four games and at least two of them wont be ready by the time I receive my new laptop and give the old one to my sister.
So should I just istall the game to the new laptop and unzip the old games to the PBEM folder or do I need to do something more complicated in order to make them work?

Thanks,
Jukka



Absoloutely NOT as this will screw up the game in progress.

A PBEM game MUST be played on the exact same PC in the exact same folder it started in and the exact same slot with the exact same OOBS right through its entire game life.

You CANNOT re-name the save game file if you were already using say slot 2 versus Fred, and Bill sent you a game set up to use slot 2 as well. Get Bill to restart in a slot you both have free - we tell you to agree a slot between players in advance.

You CANNOT Time-share a slot with more than 1 game (e.g. trying to play games against Bill and Fred, both games are slot 1, and trying to unzipzip each game to slot 1 successively).


Some folk have reported weird results with PBEM games. I am thinking that the following may have happened:

1) A player unzipped his turn several times (Fails increased per such attempt.
2) A player tried to cheat by playing the game in another folder (separate full install of the game so different save path), or another machine (different machine name), which is effectively the same cheat (or not really cheating, but same effect - he used a laptop for some turns when travelling away from home, with a game started on the home desktop PC?).
Solution - if you plan to travel, then start and play that game on your mobile PC and NOT on the home base desktop! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
3) A player renamed the PBEM files to another slot ID for some reason
4) A player was trying to "time-share" more than 1 game in the same PBEM slot number.
5) (possibly) - one of the players reinstalled the game for some reason, and then unzipped the PBEM zip into a now reinitialised game.
6) A player decided to move the game install on his machine to say the D: drive from the previous C: drive to make space or whatever available on C: (perhaps), while in the middle of an ongoing PBEM.



Cheers
Andy

[hogrider18]

Hi Andy, MD and I played a 1000 point game to completion, then played another 6000 point game,Russia vs Brits,May 1946,120x100, 20 turns. Got all the way to turn 17 before we got the same message as before. Really getting pissed now, that makes twice this has happened towards the end of a game.
We don't zip our files, we are both using Yahoo and upload the files and send them to each other. This has worked in our 1000 point game and worked up to turn 17 of 20 turn game, and turn 20 of a 40 turn game.
MD did mention something about turning off his bridge for some reason, and that is around the time the game quit.
Tell you the truth I am at the point that I no longer want to PBEM if the game is going to quit towards the end. I'll just go back to beating up on the AI...Biker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Mobhack]

hogrider18 said:
Hi Andy, MD and I played a 1000 point game to completion, then played another 6000 point game,Russia vs Brits,May 1946,120x100, 20 turns. Got all the way to turn 17 before we got the same message as before. Really getting pissed now, that makes twice this has happened towards the end of a game.
We don't zip our files, we are both using Yahoo and upload the files and send them to each other. This has worked in our 1000 point game and worked up to turn 17 of 20 turn game, and turn 20 of a 40 turn game.
MD did mention something about turning off his bridge for some reason, and that is around the time the game quit.
Tell you the truth I am at the point that I no longer want to PBEM if the game is going to quit towards the end. I'll just go back to beating up on the AI...Biker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif



"turned off his bridge" means what exactly?.

What does "upload via yahoo" mean - are you using some sort of chat room software?.

Cheers
Andy

[Pyros]

Hi hogrider18,

Have you checked the loads, quit and fail stats ?
Did you notice anything unusual?

My early conclusion is that all people (that I know) who play a game without any kind of reload, crashes, quick zip problems etc... don't experience any kind of problems.

IMO, this problem relates with the action of "unzip" and "replay" the turn, for any given reason.

cheers,
Pyros

[Suurajatollah]

Here's what I need for someone. I don't care who.

I need the turn that gives the "Player 2 has already played this turn" message AND I need the passwords for both players AND this has to be a game set up to the default folders the game installer was set up to extract the files to. If you've moved it somewhere else I don't want the saves. ...




What is the email address where I can send the files?

[7thcav]

I am haveing this problem when I try to renter a pbem game after quiting to finish later. I get all the correct prompts about saveing to finish later which I answer yes .But can't renter the game to do so.

[Mobhack]

7thcav said:
I am haveing this problem when I try to renter a pbem game after quiting to finish later. I get all the correct prompts about saveing to finish later which I answer yes .But can't renter the game to do so.



What do you mean by "not being able to re-enter" the game?

Does it reject your password when you try to open the saved off game, or what?.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Suurajatollah said:


Here's what I need for someone. I don't care who.

I need the turn that gives the "Player 2 has already played this turn" message AND I need the passwords for both players AND this has to be a game set up to the default folders the game installer was set up to extract the files to. If you've moved it somewhere else I don't want the saves. ...




What is the email address where I can send the files?



Just attach them to a post in this thread

Don

[Pepper]

dan and I have a pbem, i sent him my setup, he did his setup and played his first turn, sent it back to me, I think I did a turn, back to him, back to me, now I cannot open it, I get the "Player 2 has already played this turn." error. Very odd, not sure what to do....

[embis]

Just wondered if you are still looking at this problem.(If it is a problem)

I have just had a game killed by "Player2 has already played this turn" Happened really close to the end, V frustrating. I have the files and will send you my password and ask my opponnent to do the same if you are still collecting suspect game files.

[DRG]

embis said:
Just wondered if you are still looking at this problem.(If it is a problem)

I have just had a game killed by "Player2 has already played this turn" Happened really close to the end, V frustrating. I have the files and will send you my password and ask my opponnent to do the same if you are still collecting suspect game files.




Send the files and the passwords and well see if anything can be found. I also need to know that both games are in the standard file path the game installer suggested when you were extracting it. If they are not, don't bother sending the files

However, here's something one of our playtesters found on the 'net that may help you. I haven't tested this personally becasue I've never had the "Player2 has already played this turn" problem

Don
------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, the game is telling us that the current turn has already been played. You may have exited the session or closed your turn.
However the file will not reopen.

If we did not zip our turn beforehand we will need to replay the file if your opponent also receives the same message.
To do so simply unzip your opp's previous turn send in the slot.
Then open it with your password. Be sure to end this turn immediately.

Now retrieve your opponents most current send and place it in the slot. Open the file with your password. You can now play out your turn without trouble, but be sure to end your turn and to zip it instantly for sending.

You may delete the .DAT file to avoid accidentally trying to reopen your file. Be sure though to leave the .CMT file in the slot so that when the game is open you can tell that there is a game currently running in that slot.

This works for both WinMBT and SPMBTver3.1 Relax your game is still good.

One warning though. Be careful with the above procedure. It causes your turn report opens-closes-fails to miscue.

[Mobhack]

Stian said:
Hi I just got this weird bug in WinSPMBT:
This is the second PBEM game I'm playing with a friend, and after we've both moved on turn 1 we keep getting the message "Security - Player 2 has already played this turn?" and the save won't load at all.

I've never seen this error before, and it seems quite illogical as an error - I mean, *of course* player 2 (which is me) already has played the turn, and it's now player 1s turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Any ideas what might cause this message? We are playing scenario 103 Chess France 1952, france vs france, and we both use windows XP - if that helps.

regards,
Stian




Actually - on deeper investigation, I will need to reword this security message, as it arises when:

a) it is player 1's orders phase
and
b) The current path to the game EXE differs from the original saved player 1 path to the game EXE

b can arise from:
- trying to play the game in a different installation of the game
- Trying to play on another machine

Both of which are end-user errors in trying to go around the requirements for a PBEM game.

- or (possibly) something - another programme would be the culprit - changing the current working directory. Did you have anything else running?. That one is an outside chance really.


The error message should really be "Player 1 is trying to play this turn in a different directory from the original one he started the game in" (or something shorter to fit the error message box http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!!)

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

QUESTION

Have any of you who reported this earlier had any further incidences of this problem once you had played a few more times??

Becasue neither Andy or I have had this happen to us we tend to treat this as a procedural probem based on player inexperience so we want to know if anyone had this happen early on but they are playing OK now

The problem is, it's very difficult to debug something that hasn't happened to us and only seems to occur rarely. I have to assume there are more than just a dozen of so people playing PBEM and if everyone was getting this we'd be flooded with bug reports, However, maybe some of you have just given up reporting ( ?? ) if yes..DON'T. If you've had this happen a dozen times and only reported it once tell us. If you've been reading these threads and had this happen to you and haven't reported your peoblems then please tell us as we need all the info we can.

Don

[Mobhack]

Mobhack said:

Stian said:
Hi I just got this weird bug in WinSPMBT:
This is the second PBEM game I'm playing with a friend, and after we've both moved on turn 1 we keep getting the message "Security - Player 2 has already played this turn?" and the save won't load at all.

I've never seen this error before, and it seems quite illogical as an error - I mean, *of course* player 2 (which is me) already has played the turn, and it's now player 1s turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Any ideas what might cause this message? We are playing scenario 103 Chess France 1952, france vs france, and we both use windows XP - if that helps.

regards,
Stian




Actually - on deeper investigation, I will need to reword this security message, as it arises when:

a) it is player 1's orders phase
and
b) The current path to the game EXE differs from the original saved player 1 path to the game EXE

b can arise from:
- trying to play the game in a different installation of the game
- Trying to play on another machine

Both of which are end-user errors in trying to go around the requirements for a PBEM game.

- or (possibly) something - another programme would be the culprit - changing the current working directory. Did you have anything else running?. That one is an outside chance really.


The error message should really be "Player 1 is trying to play this turn in a different directory from the original one he started the game in" (or something shorter to fit the error message box http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!!)

Cheers
Andy



An additional thing would be - if you reinstalled the game for some reason, and then tried to continue an ongoing PBEM, as that will often nuke PBEM security info.

Did you reinstall the game or apply a patch, install the CD edition etc?

Did you change the path to the game by renaming folders?

Cheers
Andy

[embis]

I just had it happen in a second game now.

I wont send you the files because I havent used the default path for the install.


Starting to feel rather cautious about starting anymore PBEM games now.

Is it really necessary for the game to lock you out after a security breech?

Couldnt it just be set up to alert you and then load the turn anyway...at least then the player could choose to decide "my opponents a cheat I dont want to finish this game" instead of having the game make this decision on the players behalf.

[Mobhack]

embis said:
I just had it happen in a second game now.

I wont send you the files because I havent used the default path for the install.

Starting to feel rather cautious about starting anymore PBEM games now.

Is it really necessary for the game to lock you out after a security breech?

Couldnt it just be set up to alert you and then load the turn anyway...at least then the player could choose to decide "my opponents a cheat I dont want to finish this game" instead of having the game make this decision on the players behalf.



Did you do any of the things I mentioned to your path or file names etc?

if not - perhaps your opponent did (perhaps without realising the side effects ?).

As this particular message ensures that the player cannot load the save game onto a different computer or path and try the turn several times - then it really should stop play, IMHO.

I'd like to get to the bottom of why a very few players seem to be getting this particular message. It would be very nice to find some way to reproduce the error!.

The version in the patch will be dumping a text file with debug info on a PBEM load attempt (including the current path you are trying to play in, and the expected path for both players).

Cheers
Andy

[embis]

Thanks Andy,
I do have three installations on my system,(I know!!) One for Mods OOb edits and the like, (which I dont play any pbem games in) One to finish my old pbem games and one (from the CD) for my new games.

The problems have occoured once in the CD version and once in the D/L version.

Once the error occured when it was my turn and once when it was my opponents turn.

I tried deleting the old "faulty" turn restoring the previous "good" turn and then re-playing the "faulty" turn. still the same message.

Although I havent installed to the default paths in any version, neither have I changed the paths since the games were installed.

Obviously with two competing versions of the game on my system there is the risk that I inadvertantly unzipped to the wrong game but, obviously, I dont think that happened.

Anyway as my PBEM games fail the need for having more than one version on my system is rapidly becoming academic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

I understand why you believe that the game should halt if a security breech is recognised...but if it didnt do that at least we could all have finished our games.

[Stian]

Thanks for continuing the investigation Andy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I have to agree with embis that it shouldn't be necessary to lock players out because of a 'security breach'. Better to warn *both* players that something failed on the other end so that they could sort things out between themselves, for instance - if one user had to re-install the game and told the other then it should be no problem.

My opponent and I have not had this error again in our latest 4 games so things are looking good for us. Both still using PBEM Helper. Neither me nor my opponent have changed directories for the game or changed computers since installing the game.

But - I admit that the first time I got the error I had 'accidentaly' (ok ... I was curious) deleted PBEMRegistry.dat since I didn't understand what it did. I tend to do these things when my curiosity gets too high http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The game worked fine afterwards but I got the error after my opponent had played and sent me his turn. So, it could be related or not, and people here have been very firm in that PBEMRegistry is not the culprit so I don't know.

Anyway, as I understand it the PATH to the game (for me 'e:\games\WinSPMBT\') gets saved in the SpEml001.dat file (encrypted), and then the game runs a check on the path every time it's opened? But even with this check, what's to stop a cheater from playing the same turn over again just by overwriting the old game? The path hasn't changed so the check should pass.

However I've noticed that if I try this (and just for *testing* thank you), the loads/quits/fails counter still gets increased, which is nice since that would still let the other player check for signs of cheating without locking them out of the game. But does this not also mean that the number of turns played are recorded *somewhere* else than the savegame .dat file since this just gets overwritten?

I'm not asking *where* it's saved, just wondering if... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And please don't misunderstand and think I ask this because I want to *cheat* - It's just that I'm curious as to how the security measures work in PBEM games, since obviously it's a lot different than SPWAW which I've got more experience with.

Looking forward to the patch!

Stian

[Mobhack]

We will get to the botom of this one, somehow.

What I really need to have for debugging is some idea of the steps needed to get to the condition (ie a reproducible fault).

Nb - you can have several installations on the same PC, it is just that you MUST play your PBEM game in the exat same installation as you started it in. and basically with no file changes to that installation in the meantime (applies to both players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

None of the following
- Changing file names to different PBEM slot numbers
- installing the game again to that path as that will reinitialise counters etc
- trying to play a turn in a different installation
- renaming the file path to the instalation in Windows or DOS etc


I have changed the file path comparison routine to be case-insensitive in the patch version (just in case for some odd reason something is returning the path in say uppercase only).

I have also added a routine to dump out some path and player details to a text file on loading a PBEM. This may help us debug any such problems in the future. The bug seems to affect only a few players (and I assume these folk know thier opponent and can verify the opponent has not done any of the above at his end ?) and only in some games. It may take a bit of time to track it down.

Unfortunately - none of our playtesters have managed to reproduce this problem, as yet.


Cheers
Andy

[embis]

Thanks Andy, Looking forward to the patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Stian]

When it comes to the security features Andy mentions, I have a couple of comments;


- Changing file names to different PBEM slot numbers


I actually believe it would be useful if this was allowed - I've had to use it several times (in spwaw)in the past when my opponent has forgotten to use the slot we've agreed on. Instead of him having to start and play again I could just rename the files. Also, with the reduced number of PBEM save slots in the free version this is even more important.


- trying to play a turn in a different installation


I have an opponent who usually plays one turn at work and then one in the evening at home. With the security in WinSPMBT this would not be possible for him.

I think that these features have been really well thought out by the developers and that they work really well for stopping cheats. At at the same time I believe they are a bit too paranoid and cause too much harm than good, especially since they obviously go wrong occasionally.

If they were more forgiving we wouldn't have to lose a savegame because of some minor mishap or bug. After all, it's only a *game* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Stian

[Pepper]

for the record, my problem was my error -- i was trying to play the game on an incorrect install of spmbt.

now if only i could figure out why another of my games has like 10 fails for each side and I can only explain one on my end ....

[DRG]

Stian said:
When it comes to the security features Andy mentions, I have a couple of comments;



MOBHack said: " Changing file names to different PBEM slot numbers"


I actually believe it would be useful if this was allowed - I've had to use it several times (in spwaw)in the past when my opponent has forgotten to use the slot we've agreed on. Instead of him having to start and play again I could just rename the files. Also, with the reduced number of PBEM save slots in the free version this is even more important.





It's REALLY not too difficult to agree to use slot "X" before starting the game is it? Allowing players to change slot numbers allows cheaters to florish. It allows players to set up two parallel games. It may not seem a big deal now but cheating used to be a serious problem to the point where people gave up playing PBEM and it's not anymore because of the anti cheating measures introduced. It's one of those " people who forget history are bound to repeat it" type of issues. Yes, sometimes they get in the way of things, that's true of any kind of security. One problem we are having which I think accounts for some of these reports is people are forgetting WinSPMBT is NOT WaW. Different game, Different designers, Different base code. They are not the same game and "procedures" that worked for WaW like renaming PBEM's to a different slot simply does not work in WinSPMBT



Stian said:


MOBHack said: " trying to play a turn in a different installation"


I have an opponent who usually plays one turn at work and then one in the evening at home. With the security in WinSPMBT this would not be possible for him.

I think that these features have been really well thought out by the developers and that they work really well for stopping cheats. At at the same time I believe they are a bit too paranoid and cause too much harm than good, especially since they obviously go wrong occasionally.

If they were more forgiving we wouldn't have to lose a savegame because of some minor mishap or bug. After all, it's only a *game* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Stian



The problem with allowing players to play secure PBEM on two machines is because unscrupulous players can play out a turn over, and over, and over and send you the one after they know where all your hidden tanks and ATGM are because they sent out their units on suicide missions the first three times to draw fire and now know where your units are.

If you feel your opponents can be fully trusted to play fairly then simply do not use the secure PBEM. However, all you need is one time where that arty sure seems to be right on target to trigger your own paranoia and it may or may not be misplaced but you'll always wonder if he did cheat. With secure PBEM you never have to wonder if your "buddy" is just a good player or he's been screwing you over.

Don

[wd_katana]

I am having both the same problem I am even getting statments that the obat files are diffent or corupted.
Now please tell me that if you own the CD version you can play other people that have bought the game and people that are using the free download.
mark

[DRG]

wd_katana said:
I am having both the same problem I am even getting statments that the obat files are diffent or corupted.
Now please tell me that if you own the CD version you can play other people that have bought the game and people that are using the free download.
mark



There are a number of OOB changes in the CD version so the OOB's will differ. We had originally planned to issue a patch to upgrade the DL version OOB etc the day the CD was issued but the patch has now grown considerably and is still growing. When it is issued it will upgrade EVERYONE'S game ( DL and CD )

The workaround for PBEM is simple. ( so yes, you CAN PBEM between the two versions )

Decide who's OOB's you are going to use with your opponent.
Zip them up and when you get them unzip them open up the game folders and look for the "Custom OOBS" folder that can be found in WinSPMBT\Game Data\OOBs\Custom OOBS. Build a new folder ( call it katana_PBEM for example ) then unzip the OOB's there. You can then load those OOB's into your game using the "Manage OOB's" feature found under the "Utilities" tab of the gameoptions program that starts before the game.

With that you or your opponent can reload your original OOB's anytime AND load the PBEM OOB's whenever you play.

This may sound complicated the first time but if you do it once you'll see it's not too big a problem. An alternative if to zip up all the CD OOB's and send them to your opponent and have him install them in his OOB folder and Default OOB folder or in a custom folder named CD OOB's and he can load then when he plays

The downside for you ATM is you will have to start this PBEM over becasue your opponent built his side with the DL OOB's and you built yours with the CD OOB's

Don

[wd_katana]

Don thank you for the info and the help
mark

[fossiili]

One simple and probably stupid question:

There is the PBEMRegistry-file in the PBEM Games directory. Shall I include it to the zip-package with DAT and CMT files I am sending to my opponent?

[Pepper]

fossiili said:
One simple and probably stupid question:

There is the PBEMRegistry-file in the PBEM Games directory. Shall I include it to the zip-package with DAT and CMT files I am sending to my opponent?



That is not necessary.

[Mobhack]

fossiili said:
One simple and probably stupid question:

There is the PBEMRegistry-file in the PBEM Games directory. Shall I include it to the zip-package with DAT and CMT files I am sending to my opponent?



No, that file is not in the list of files to be sent mentioned in the manual.

You only send the CMT and DAT file pair.

Cheers
Andy

[fossiili]

What is the use of the PBEMRegistry-file?

[DRG]

fossiili said:
What is the use of the PBEMRegistry-file?



It was added in for an idea that we didn't end up using but may someday

Don