What Changes in the CD Version

[Vinny]

I noticed that the version in my CD install is no longer 1.00. What's new, besides the map editor, resolution increases and the other published stuff?

[Jim1954]

I noticed that the delay between ordnance impact and explosion is significantly reduced on my install.

[DRG]

Jim1954 said:
I noticed that the delay between ordnance impact and explosion is significantly reduced on my install.



The original plan was to release the patch for the downloadable version at the same time the CD version was released then both games would be in sync for bugfixes. OOB changes etc etc etc. A list of changes was to be issued at the same time and the people owning the CD's wouldn't need to install the patch becasue all the fixes would have been included with the CD

Plans usually end up in disarray and that was the case here as well.

After the CD version was "pressed" we, of course, found other things we felt needed fixing as well so we gave up on the idea of a patch only for the downloaded version. The patch, when it's released, will upgrade both the DL version and the CD version.

Here is the list of changes made to the CD version that will be included in the patch for the DL version

================

This patch contains the following changes and additions for the v1.01 Upgrade ( already included in the CD version )

1) Points were not correctly charged for elite or second-rate troops when bought by the human player - fixed

2) The cost calculaton was done in floating point, leading to rounding down when e.g. a squad at 15 was revalued to 15.75 points, was reduced back to 15 when converted back to integer. Now rounds up to 16 before returning.

3) Combat sounds had short delays after them left over from the old DOS sound system which only played one track at a time. These have been removed, as well as reducing some delays on user messages appearing during combat sequences. Sounds should be quicker, and the delay when a unit was destroyed is gone.

4) A problem in XP which could cause a crash (and very rarely in Windows 98) when deleting formations on purchasing when the formation spanned 2 pages was fixed. Now when a formation is deleted, the entire list is recalculated.

5) Air weapons were not showing correctly in the scenario editor change weapons dialogue. The weapons list now shows all potential weapons, and since there was only room on the screen for 120 weapons we have added 3 "pages" accessed by entering negative numbers as the page number. -1 for page 1, -2 for weapons 120+ and -3 for weapond 200+.

6) Casualties for paratroops landing has been revised. Small one man teams should have less casualties on landing, as should vehicles especially the "airborne APC" class. Ammo containers no longer explode when dropped

7) Numerous OOB fixes - UK , Netherlands, India, and east Germany have had more work that some but a number of nations using 'Carl Gustaves" had them classed incorrectly in the weapons list and those have been corrected. There were a few other minor issued that resulted in all OOB's being point recalculated.

8) I new Scenarios added #107 Raid into Honduras 1986

9) 2 Scenarios reworked . Scenario #1 has been extensively revised and sceanrio #28 has had minor alterations

10) Game Options master Control Programme now exposes 2 variables that were only available through INI file editing.

A] Graphics delay is the minimum wait time between screen redraws,
and
B] Unit |Move delay controls the time units wait between multiple hex moves.

11) Game Messages Delay has been changed to work in roughly 1/4 second intervals and not 1/2 second. In addition, a user-editable modifier has been added to the INI file [game] section for those who require to radically aler the base messages delay level.

12) Instructions have been added to the sub folder of \Game Data\Sounds for people who may encounter sound problems on their computers when using the MP3 sound files in the game. We did not include WAV files as comparable quality WAV's would have added 144MB to the amount of HD space used by the game but we have included step by step instructions for those few players who may encounter dificulties

13) There have been a few minor alterations to some vehicle SHP files

14) a few photos used by the OOB's have been revised

15) a correction has been made to the Sounds.INI file that prevented the PPsh sound FX from playing in the game

16) two in game help texts have been revised

17) The game manual has been corrected to give you more information on the additional controls added to the GameOptions Misc page

18) UAV now considerd high flyers, above rifle and AAMG height and require proper AA guns and SAM to engage.

19) Bugs with Allied units showing the wrong experience level and ID tag were fixed.

20) Bug with points not being correctly charged for unit experience and morale levels fixed.

21) Bug where pressing previous page after a formation was deleted in the purchase screen occasionally crashed the PC fixed.

22) Bug where having more than 23 of a particular unit type simultaneously available caused the units to be unpurchaseable fixed. Now if more than 23 of a type are available att he first time, only the first 23 are displayed rather than declaring a formation invalid.

23) In the advance or delay with the traditional victory hex clusters, occasionaly these were displayed off the bottom of narow maps under 40 hexes tall. Now fixed.

24) Bug where pressing escape in the map save screen after changing your mind on the selected save slot - fixed.

25) A bug whereby units in a campaign which used ARENA or VIRSS did not have the shots restored - fixed



The following changes have been added AFTER the CD version went gold which, when added to either the DL or CD version will upgrade both games to ver 1.02 ..



26) Iraqi Picklist altered to give a more accurate " insurgent" type force composition for the AI and includes a further revised OOB

27) NVA Picklist altered to give a few armoured vehicles to the AI once in awhile while US forces are still engaged plus added APC infantry after the USA departed

28) There was a bug when the AI was buying 1/50th of the force value as mines in defence then 20% more if it was a river crossing or beach assault. - in campaign battles only. -FIXED

29) added "Dragons teeth" to hex mouse-over, if DTare in the hex and added "Mines" to hex mouse over if mines detected in a hex

30) AI was sometimes deploying units in lakes. FIXED

31) A "mission" button has been added to the deployment screen ( Useful if you saved during deploy, and came back 2 weeks later and forgot your mission)

31) "In scenarios, if the "reaction turn" is set to "turn 98" units will hold in place for the entire game and not counter attack to re-take V-Hexes. This includes both advance and assault and delay and defend scenarios"

32) Merkava MICV "Nemer" Icon added

33) AA radars will now spot planes and helos at ranges beyond the firing unit's ground vision rating

That's it, to date. I would like to get this patch released this month sometime and as noted, will upgrade BOTH versions of the game

Don

[Alby]

Wow that looks great to me!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
thanks for all the hard work!

[WestKent5097]

Thanks for that comprehensive list and putting the time into making these corrections.

Let me see if I've got this correct:

For those with the CD: Only need V1.02 patch
For those with DL: Need both V1.01 and V1.02 patch.

Will the V1.02 patch also include V1.01 bundled together or will it be necessary to make two downloads? I get the impression from what you say that their will only be one fix all patch to download which will take DL straight to V1.02. Correct?

Regards,

Matthew

[DRG]

WestKent5097 said:
Thanks for that comprehensive list and putting the time into making these corrections.

Let me see if I've got this correct:

For those with the CD: Only need V1.02 patch
For those with DL: Need both V1.01 and V1.02 patch.

Will the V1.02 patch also include V1.01 bundled together or will it be necessary to make two downloads? I get the impression from what you say that their will only be one fix all patch to download which will take DL straight to V1.02. Correct?

Regards,

Matthew




Both patches are rolled into the ver1.02 patch so everyone can download one patch and get everything up-to-date. In this case the guys with the CD just get some of it again. It's less confusing for everyone when there is only one patch. It STARTED life as one patch ( ver1.01 ) but grew to include fixes that occured after the CD had been pressed so now it's a full patch that everyone will need.

Don

[DRG]

Here are the latest changes to the patch list

Don

================================================== ====================================

34) The list of a campaign core force units on the upgrade/fix/review screen between battles (if allowed to refit) - was indexing incorrectly - in large cores you only saw 2-3 pages becasue the bug was skipping pages in the middle and showing first, second and last generally- FIXED

35) There were occasions when some maps said "town" or "city" etc, but none appeared or only a few villages seemed to appear. FIXED

36) Changes made to "Carry capacity" and "Carry cost" did not stick when changed in the editor. FIXED

37) Visibility can now be changed from the "View Map" screen. Previously this could only be changed before starting a battle. This allows players a second chance to do this while setting up a game ( for PBEM for example ) and now allows campaign players the option of adjusting the visibility during campaign games

38) There was a minor bug in the "View Map" screen where pressing ESC would not allow you to back out of that function without selecting a map number first. FIXED-- Pressing ESC while in the "Change Map ID" subscreen of the "View Map" screen will now properly exit that screen without having to enter a map ID number first

[JaM]

Changing visibility in View Map is great,it is frustrating allways restart battle if i get vis 1 or 2 in 1950, where no one see anything...

I know i posted it before,but never got an answer, is possible to make upgrade in generated campaign same as in user made campaign? It is too lenghty to upgrade big core unit,(for every unit open upgrade screen, change and close, in user generated campaign i can click at next unit in side list to upgrade it)

[DRG]

I'll look into this

Don

[WestKent5097]

Thanks for the clarification Don.

[Fabfire]

Well, I have just received my CD and the game plays like a charm. The better resolutions, the fixes (version is 1.012), and the extras are worth every cent.

Thank you guys, Win SPMBT ROCKS!http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[DRG]

JaM said:
<SNIP>

I know i posted it before,but never got an answer, is possible to make upgrade in generated campaign same as in user made campaign? It is too lenghty to upgrade big core unit,(for every unit open upgrade screen, change and close, in user generated campaign i can click at next unit in side list to upgrade it)



This has now been corrected and will be issued with the patch so that both campaign types have active menus on the right side that will allow you to upgrade the Generated campaign in the same way as the User Campaign.

Don

[DRG]

Here is the list of the additional changes since the last list I posted here. I will be starting another thread for info on the patch sometime this week that will put it all together



39) Updated South African AI Picklist

40) There was a bug that was preventing units from clearing mines after a save. FIXED

41)Thermal imaging sights ( TI ) will now have some LOS blocked by a fire hex (usually 2 or more fire hexes are needed for significant LOS degradation), and heavy smoke reduces LOS penetration very slightly, causing some "shadows". usually 5-6 hexes of freshly laid (full) smoke is needed to reduce TI penetration level slightly. Fire and smoke hexes do NOT reduce radar AA Fire Control LOS against aerial targets.

42) There was a difference between the way User Campaigns and Generated Campaigns allowed you to change ( upgrade ) units . This has now been standardized for both campaign types. The Unit list menu is now an "active" menu for both campaign types allowing you to select units to change from there

[DRG]

M256 said:
Well, I have just received my CD and the game plays like a charm. The better resolutions, the fixes (version is 1.012), and the extras are worth every cent.

Thank you guys, Win SPMBT ROCKS!http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif



We're glad you like it. Thank YOU for buying a copy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don

[JaM]

Thanks Don

[danstudentvcc]

DRG said:

M256 said:
Well, I have just received my CD and the game plays like a charm. The better resolutions, the fixes (version is 1.012), and the extras are worth every cent.

Thank you guys, Win SPMBT ROCKS!http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif



We're glad you like it. Thank YOU for buying a copy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hello. The change I like about the WinMBT is that we can actually buy it. Nothing makes as large an impact as the answer to: "but does it sell?" does.

[Passionate SP2 player, becomes MBT aficionado.]
Danstudentvcc

Don

[Artur]

Is there any news about the patch release date?

Artur.

[DRG]

Artur said:
Is there any news about the patch release date?

Artur.




Not yet. I'm aiming to have it ready this month though. It's grown somewhat from just being a simple code fix patch

Don

[Artur]

Take your time. With this patch this game will be REALLY awesome.

I have one but important question. You have taken this I go U go system to a quite good level.

There is one thing that is missing very much that is the hull-down position possibility for vechicles. I know SP system is not that detailed to model them correctly, but a good compromise would be if a vechicle is positioned in a fortified hex, than it can be hit only in the turret. This would be vital for SPATGM systems on defense for example.
I do not know your code but it seems doable for me.

Your thoughts?

Artur.

[DRG]

Artur said:

<SNIP>

There is one thing that is missing very much that is the hull-down position possibility for vechicles. I know SP system is not that detailed to model them correctly, but a good compromise would be if a vechicle is positioned in a fortified hex, than it can be hit only in the turret. This would be vital for SPATGM systems on defense for example.
I do not know your code but it seems doable for me.

Your thoughts?

Artur.




Well that's been in the game pretty much since day 1. If you put tanks in the defence so that they show the "sandbagged" icon around them and fire at them you will find that the only place you can hit them is in the turret which means they are hull down. You will never see a hull hit on a tank that's behind the sandbags

Don

[Artur]

Oh my... there is always something to learn. I knew there was some bonus for it but I did not know exaxtly what it was. It could have been jut a small decrerase of hit chance.

Is that still the case when moving into a Sandbagged hex during a turn? If not could you please make it work like that? Is is quite a life-like activity backing into another fortified position. A layered defense has more prepared fireing positions for one vehicle.

Artur.

[scJazz]

DRG said:
<SNIP>
40) There was a bug that was preventing engineers and engineer vehicles from clearing mines after a save. FIXED
<SNIP>



AFAIK this bug affected non-engineer types as well (RIFLE SECTION, etc).

[DRG]

Yes, I will change the wording

Don

[wd_katana]

Hi all
Just had a quick question. I just bought the CD of Winspmbt and am getting ready to install it . I want to know will this cause problems with any of the Pbem games I am now playing using the free version of the game.

mark

[DRG]

wd_katana said:
Hi all
Just had a quick question. I just bought the CD of Winspmbt and am getting ready to install it . I want to know will this cause problems with any of the Pbem games I am now playing using the free version of the game.

mark



Yes, it most likely will. You should finish those up first.

Don

[Artur]

Is there a chance of making the fortified hexes reentrant during the battle? (The vehicle that entered a fortified hex and did not move one turn would receive hull down bonus.)

Artur.

[DRG]

Artur said:
Is there a chance of making the fortified hexes reentrant during the battle? (The vehicle that entered a fortified hex and did not move one turn would receive hull down bonus.)

Artur.




It's being discused.

Don

[DRG]

Here's the latest list of changes and additions to the game

43) Mike Torrance's Campaign "Silver Lions" has been added

44) There was a bug where flak units firing at enemy aircraft increased the kill count with every hit even though no kills were made. FIXED

45) A bug where a fire mission could not be cancelled has been fixed.

46) A Bug where player 2 in a scenario could see player 1's troops during the pre game bombardment, if player one was the AI fixed.

47)**REVISED** A safety feature has been added to the scenario editor. The sceanrio editor will now auto saves to slot 999 on exit with title "AUTO SAVED SCENARIO"

48) The mini map was not centering on the location of the unit in use on the main map. FIXED

49) Vehicles and artillery pieces "dug in" in a hex showing a sandbagged revetments can now regain dug in status one turn after entering OR re-entering. They are not restricted to their original revetments and can enter any "sandbagged" hex to regain hull down status ( in the case of vehicles ) or dug in in the case of guns , mortars etc.

[JaM]

Sorry that i write it here,but i think it should be something you may look at. I made some tests with acuracy. I tested with crew exp 70 (i used exp 70 becouse it dont add any possitive or negative bonusses to accuracy) fire solution at certain distances against size 5 target. I found that Firecontrol rating have only a very litle to do with accuracy. I used rangefinder 22 and gun accuracy 10.I rised FC from 0 to 90 and i found that it adds only 3% for every 10 points of Firecontrol rating, so tank with FC 20 with same gun and rangefinder have accuracy only 6% lower than tank with Firecontrol 40, which represents modern firecontrol with digital balistic computer. So it looks that now,is the rangefinder value what defines accuracy,FC and gun accuracy have just little effect.

[Artur]

DRG said:
...
49) Vehicles and artillery pieces "dug in" in a hex showing a sandbagged revetments can now regain dug in status one turn after entering OR re-entering. They are not restricted to their original revetments and can enter any "sandbagged" hex to regain hull down status ( in the case of vehicles ) or dug in in the case of guns , mortars etc.



All I can say is THANK YOU!!! Wow!!!

Artur.

[DRG]

JaM said:
Sorry that i write it here,but i think it should be something you may look at. I made some tests with acuracy. I tested with crew exp 70 (i used exp 70 becouse it dont add any possitive or negative bonusses to accuracy) fire solution at certain distances against size 5 target. I found that Firecontrol rating have only a very litle to do with accuracy. I used rangefinder 22 and gun accuracy 10.I rised FC from 0 to 90 and i found that it adds only 3% for every 10 points of Firecontrol rating, so tank with FC 20 with same gun and rangefinder have accuracy only 6% lower than tank with Firecontrol 40, which represents modern firecontrol with digital balistic computer. So it looks that now,is the rangefinder value what defines accuracy,FC and gun accuracy have just little effect.





When you tested this were all the tanks your fired stationary?? Were the targets stationary??


Don

[JaM]

Yes, Stationary vs stationary

[JaM]

I didnt fired at them, it is just target lock propability. I use that metod becouse there are some other things that interfere with fire propability. Vision was set to 80, to have clear 4000m field of view

[DRG]

FC + stabilizers enter into the equations a bit more when targeting moving targets. With a stationary firer and a stationary target you could almost bore sight most guns. FC acts a little like a rangefinder, and also allows for better shooting on moving targets.

Accuracy is only the *basic* starting point. You need to take Stab, RF, FC, and crew Exp into account, plus target size, move status, own move status, own suppression state,target dug in or hull down, target in woods etc. etc. etc.

However Andy and I are experimenting with a code change that should boost the tanks with higher FC and RF so that they are a bit more likely gain more to-hit % within a three shot average than the EXE you have now

Don

[JaM]

Thanks

[Fabfire]

DRG said:
...<snip></snip>
However Andy and I are experimenting with a code change that should boost the tanks with higher FC and RF so that they are a bit more likely gain more to-hit % within a three shot average than the EXE you have now

Don



Now THAT is interesting! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Thank you!

Fab

[Nox]

I have 2 questions:

1st: Could there be an online game feature in WinSPMBT like there is in SpWaW?

2nd: When loading units into vehicles the screen does not allow scrolling. This coplicates loading especially on deployment phase. Could the scrolling be enabled?

[DRG]

Nox said:
I have 2 questions:

1st: Could there be an online game feature in WinSPMBT like there is in SpWaW?



*****There are no plans to do that at this time



Nox said:
2nd: When loading units into vehicles the screen does not allow scrolling. This coplicates loading especially on deployment phase. Could the scrolling be enabled?



If you click on the mini map you can move to any point on the map that way and it's generally a lot quicker than scrolling. However, scrolling did work while loading in the past so we'll investigate this


Don

[DRG]

Nox said:
<SNIP>

When loading units into vehicles the screen does not allow scrolling. This coplicates loading especially on deployment phase. Could the scrolling be enabled?




Now fixed. When the patch is released that screen will scroll

Don

[Nox]

Thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fabfire]

Don and Andy,

I would like to thank you for listening to us and altering the code to give the MBT's with better FC and RF more hit to kill probability. I really think that this is the kind of attitude that makes the difference.

There is another thing that I discovered we (specially the scenario/campaign designers) really need, and it is the capability of changing the experience, moral, armor, infantry and artillery levels of all units of a given scenario. It's really a pain to go from unit A0 to the last unit of a scenario changing each value for every unit, uint leader, and formation leader.

The clone feature is really great, but it is only related to the hardware items such as weapon ammo modification. Perhaps it could also include the other values also, but what I would like to suggest is an application like the WAWed that Fred Chlanda developed for SPWAW. That, if possible in any way, would be a most useful tool.

Again, thank you guys for a fantastic game. I really love WinSPMBT and apologize for my rants on the accuracy issue, but please understand that my previous experience with game developers was not exactly with the kind of people that actually listen to us and (this is too good to be true...) bother to alter the code to accommodate our needs.

Finally, I want to say that the Armorsite (http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/main.html) is at your disposal, if there is anything you want me to do to help your efforts (besides buying the CD, which I already did) via my web site, just drop me a note : fprado@fprado.com.

Well, this is it.

Best regards,

Fabio Prado

[Stirling]

Would it be possible to make the arrow keys able to scroll the map?

I'm just so used to it from other games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DRG]

M256 said:
Don and Andy,

I would like to thank you for listening to us and altering the code to give the MBT's with better FC and RF more hit to kill probability. I really think that this is the kind of attitude that makes the difference.

There is another thing that I discovered we (specially the scenario/campaign designers) really need, and it is the capability of changing the experience, moral, armor, infantry and artillery levels of all units of a given scenario. It's really a pain to go from unit A0 to the last unit of a scenario changing each value for every unit, uint leader, and formation leader.

The clone feature is really great, but it is only related to the hardware items such as weapon ammo modification. Perhaps it could also include the other values also, but what I would like to suggest is an application like the WAWed that Fred Chlanda developed for SPWAW. That, if possible in any way, would be a most useful tool.

Again, thank you guys for a fantastic game. I really love WinSPMBT and apologize for my rants on the accuracy issue, but please understand that my previous experience with game developers was not exactly with the kind of people that actually listen to us and (this is too good to be true...) bother to alter the code to accommodate our needs.

Finally, I want to say that the Armorsite (http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/main.html) is at your disposal, if there is anything you want me to do to help your efforts (besides buying the CD, which I already did) via my web site, just drop me a note : fprado@fprado.com.

Well, this is it.

Best regards,

Fabio Prado




If we get a complaint or concern that we consider valid we will deal with it but only if we consider it valid. We are not changing anything we feel changes things in ways we disagree with or "dumbs down" the game at all. FC and RF accuracy has been tweaked slightly and we are looking at a couple of issues involving high vision number spotting ATM. All combine, ever so slightly, to fine tune accuracy for the "high end" equipment

If you know about WAWed then you also know there is a WW2ed. if you ask Fred nicely maybe he'll build you a winMBTed

Don

[DRG]

DRG said:

If you know about WAWed then you also know there is a WW2ed. if you ask Fred nicely maybe he'll build you a winMBTed

Don




Actually you may be able to use WW2ed with WinSPMBT. I just tried to modify moral and experience in winspmbt with ww2ed and it *appears* to work. This is NOT a full recomendation. You would need to do some SERIOUS testing with WW2ed before issuing a scenario altered by it but it appears to do what you want it to do. You may still want to contact Fred for a proper version built for winspmbt

Don

[Fabfire]

DRG said:
If we get a complaint or concern that we consider valid we will deal with it but only if we consider it valid. We are not changing anything we feel changes things in ways we disagree with or "dumbs down" the game at all. <snip></snip>
Don



Sure. That is the *obvious* right way to do it, and I assumed it was clear that I feel exactly the same way, too. I couldn't agree with you more on this subject than I actually do. What I meant, however, is that *if and when* you get a *valid* comment, you will take action, and will do your best to find a solution. This is healthy practice and deserves recognition. Not everyone in your position would think and act like you and Andy do.


DRG said:
Actually you may be able to use WW2ed with WinSPMBT. I just tried to modify moral and experience in winspmbt with ww2ed and it *appears* to work. This is NOT a full recomendation. You would need to do some SERIOUS testing with WW2ed before issuing a scenario altered by it but it appears to do what you want it to do. You may still want to contact Fred for a proper version built for winspmbt
Don



I haven't tried WW2ed. I should have done that. My mistake.
Anyway, I will accept your suggestion to contact Fred. Hopefully he will built a version for WinSPMBT, to the benefit of all its community.

Thank you for your kind attention,

Fab

[DRG]

M256 said:

Sure. That is the *obvious* right way to do it, and I assumed it was clear that I feel exactly the same way, too. I couldn't agree with you more on this subject than I actually do. What I meant, however, is that *if and when* you get a *valid* comment, you will take action, and will do your best to find a solution. This is healthy practice and deserves recognition. Not everyone in your position would think and act like you and Andy do.


Fab



The point I wanted to emphasize was that we do not change the game just becasue someone thinks something should be different or to make a particular group of people happy even if we think it's wrong. It may seem "obvious" that is the wrong way to do things but the " give 'em what they what no matter what" school of thought is alive and well in many businesses if they think it will increase sales. Increasing sales ( although desirable ) is not our main motivation.

Don

[Listy]

My turn...

Walls? there are at current no walls in the game.. is it possibly to have one of these? (I know the hedge works fine, but it's just as an eye candy thing).

I found a bug, in the force selection screen. It was a PBEM game and both sides had alot of stuff, enough to bring in the arty not canceling bug.

The "Previous" link at the bottom of the force buy screen (The green writing on the right hand side) took you to the start of the display while the "First page" link took you up a page.

[DRG]

Listy said:
My turn...

Walls? there are at current no walls in the game.. is it possibly to have one of these? (I know the hedge works fine, but it's just as an eye candy thing).

I found a bug, in the force selection screen. It was a PBEM game and both sides had alot of stuff, enough to bring in the arty not canceling bug.

The "Previous" link at the bottom of the force buy screen (The green writing on the right hand side) took you to the start of the display while the "First page" link took you up a page.




No plans to add walls. I know some people think they are a wonderful addition but I don't.
There was a problem with overrun text on that screen that we cleared up some weeks ago. I haven't seen it since so I'll say this has been fixed. If you see it again save the game and post it and I'll look at it if possible. What you describe doesn't quite fit with what I recall the problem was though. Like I said, if you see it again send it along

Don

[Nox]

Hi again. I have 2 more questions if I may:

1st. Correct me if Im wrong but I can not find a logic in choosing battle sides. If I select player1 to be USA and player2 to be Viet Cong, player1 USA appears on the right side of the map. Now the problem is that I can not choose USA to start on the left side at all it always starts on the right side of the map. Some Vietnam maps are designed so that USA should start on the left side however this is impossible to do... So could it be changed so that Player1 would start Left and Player2 would start Right by default?
Or even better have a Swap Sides option like there is in the Editor Screen.

2nd. This is more of a cosmetic thing, but anyway:
In enclypedia if there is no Picture available for a unit it does not show the Pm00000.lbm "No Photo Available" -picture. It only shows the picture in purchase screen. In enclypedia and battle it shows nothing at all. Was this done intentionaly?

[Fabfire]

DRG said:

The point I wanted to emphasize was that we do not change the game just because someone thinks something should be different or to make a particular group of people happy even if we think it's wrong. It may seem "obvious" that is the wrong way to do things but the " give 'em what they what no matter what" school of thought is alive and well in many businesses if they think it will increase sales. Increasing sales ( although desirable ) is not our main motivation.

Don



Yep. Rest assured you made your point clear enough. And I agree with you 110%. I really believe your main motivation is not to increase sales at the expense of quality. Your product speaks out louder than words can explain. You released a 100 MB, quality product - in fact the best of the whole SP series up to now, but it is just me - not a 400 MB behemoth full of eye candy and fancy sounds.

WinSPMBT is stable, can work in windowed mode, supports higher resolutions, the whole structure of the game is "solid", all the Mobhack utilities are easily acessible, one can swap OOBs in a breeze, the gameplay is excellent, the scenario and map editors (the extended map editor is something else) are great, the way we can set the reinforcements is easy and useful, the "clone" feature too, we have reversible tanks, the implementation of typical "modern" aspects such as many types of ERA armor and composite armor (with one value for KE resistance and other for CE resistance) and the interactions with different types of ammunition, all the calculations to make this work, and all that makes up for a tremendous amount of work.

This kind of dedication deserves recognition. This is how I see it.

Fab

[DRG]

Stirling said:
Would it be possible to make the arrow keys able to scroll the map?

I'm just so used to it from other games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



OK, you've got it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

51) The game maps can now be scrolled in all directions using the up, down, left and right arrow keys. If accessed from the numeric keyboard Numlock must be OFF

Don

[DRG]

Nox said:
Hi again. I have 2 more questions if I may:

1st. Correct me if Im wrong but I can not find a logic in choosing battle sides. If I select player1 to be USA and player2 to be Viet Cong, player1 USA appears on the right side of the map. Now the problem is that I can not choose USA to start on the left side at all it always starts on the right side of the map. Some Vietnam maps are designed so that USA should start on the left side however this is impossible to do... So could it be changed so that Player1 would start Left and Player2 would start Right by default?
Or even better have a Swap Sides option like there is in the Editor Screen.



There is a logic in choosing sides. We set that down when the game was first being developed and picked the "most logical" sides for each pairs of nations. Now.. there are 92 nations so the chance of someone not liking the choice we made for one combination is quite high.. Yes? It was decided that the US player in Vietnam plays from the coast and faces inland for generated battles. I have no idea what the "swap sides" button could potentially screw up in a generated battle or campaign. We'll put that on our "maybe think about" list




Nox said:
2nd. This is more of a cosmetic thing, but anyway:
In enclypedia if there is no Picture available for a unit it does not show the Pm00000.lbm "No Photo Available" -picture. It only shows the picture in purchase screen. In enclypedia and battle it shows nothing at all. Was this done intentionaly?




That's the way those screen have always worked AFAIK. The "no Picture available" LBM was only originally intended to be used by OOB developers and a blank one inserted for release but we left it in right from the start and it's always stayed in. If the blank one was inserted you'd see nothing on all screens

Don

[DRG]

Here is are the latest additions to the patch


50) The vehicle Load / Unload screen would not allow you to scroll around the map. FIXED

51) The game maps can now be scrolled in all directions using the up, down, left and right arrow keys. If accessed from the numeric keyboard Numlock must be OFF

52) AAA reaction fires has been tweaked a bit . If they are hidden they will fire at very short ranges only or if the to-hit is better than 9%. Therefore,- hidden tanks will not pop off at passing planes unless these spot them by flying close enough, or if the aircraft or Helo gets to a 9% to hit OR at 3 or so hexes, they will blaze away as the thing is too close.

53) There has been a slight adjustment upwards for spotting hidden vehicles when using vehicles with a Vision rating of 40 and above especially if the "hidden" tank fires

54) Spotting with TI ( vision 40+ ) decrease slightly with speed. You'll spot things a bit better if you are not moving at top speed

55) There have been slight alterations to the accuracy numbers for smoothbore guns. The length/calibre cals did not give accurate numbers with shorter barrelled smoothbores like the German L44 or the US M256 and the longer Russian barrels gave them slightly higher accuracy than reality. As well. Fire Control ( FC ) and Range Finder ( RF ) ratings were not quite giving the added benefit to higher end equipment that they should have so the formulas have been slightly altered to give greater benefit to the vehicles with the higher end equipment. Each of these factors, if overdone, have a HUGE effect on gameplay and we have endeavoured to strike a fair and balanced compromise.

Sometimes even slight changes can make a noticeable difference so we've been careful not to overdo it

Don

[Stirling]

I have such power!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[RVPERTVS]

"Here is the list of changes made to the CD version that will be included in the patch for the DL version

================

This patch contains the following changes and additions for the v1.01 Upgrade ( already included in the CD version )
...

3) Combat sounds had short delays after them left over from the old DOS sound system which only played one track at a time. These have been removed, as well as reducing some delays on user messages appearing during combat sequences. Sounds should be quicker, and the delay when a unit was destroyed is gone.

..."

1.- Does this fix has something to do with the sound problems when running under XP?

2.- Is there something in the patch about those issues?

Thanks in advance

[DRG]

RVPERTVS said:
1.- Does this fix has something to do with the sound problems when running under XP?

2.- Is there something in the patch about those issues?

Thanks in advance



1/ It depends on what "sound problem" you mean. There were a number of reports regarding the delay between the action and the sound and that's been fixed. On the other hand, there were a few reports from people, usually with integrated sound chips or Celeron CPU's that had problems processing the MP3 sounds. For those few we have included instructions on how to convert MP3 to WAV files which seemed to help a few people. On the other hand there were some people who couldn't get the sounds to work that in many cases were traced to bad codecs in their machines and there are a few threads in the forums about that. We cannot help you with the bad codecs except to identify them.

2/ The patch covers all the issues dealt with in the 25 areas that were improved for the CD release and adds 30 more improvements ( so far ) so the patch upgrades any bug fix made to the game up to an beyond the CD release and should be installed by both players with the DL and CD versions when it's released.

Don

[Listy]

another Idea

Icon changes.

At the moment you can't tell SAM's/LAW's/ATGM's apart, they all use the same basic Icon.

Same with HMG's/AGL's.

So being the nice guy I am, I created some new ones, with help from Plasmakrab (attached).

Another thing I'd like is if we could alocate which infantry set of icons to use, in MOBhack... I know that's a dream and for experienced moders but it would be nice. Say alocate one of the 5 infantry Icon sets to a country.

Another thing, there's an awful lot of stuff unused in the SHP's in regards to defense's and infantry.

[JaM]

Those icons are really nice!

[Listy]

thanks, the weapons are scaled up versions of Plasmakrabs (As infantry work on the size of 1 pixel =3") originals, the Men are just taken from the existing Icons.

Originally I experimented with making tirpod weapons such as TOW crew able. the experiment is attached.

[Nox]

DRG said:
There is a logic in choosing sides. We set that down when the game was first being developed and picked the "most logical" sides for each pairs of nations. Now.. there are 92 nations so the chance of someone not liking the choice we made for one combination is quite high.. Yes? It was decided that the US player in Vietnam plays from the coast and faces inland for generated battles. I have no idea what the "swap sides" button could potentially screw up in a generated battle or campaign. We'll put that on our "maybe think about" list




Ahh so all the nations have different pre-set starting sides. Got it.


As for the "swap sides" button definately not place it in the generated campaing screen. But in the Battle screen it could be quite useful especialy when loading custom maps for e-mail play when you may need to have players on different sides because of the design of the map. As you said maybe think about it. If it presents more problems that its of use then ofcourse not.

Great game! keep up the good work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Fabfire]

DRG said:
Here is are the latest additions to the patch


50) The vehicle Load / Unload screen would not allow you to scroll around the map. FIXED

51) The game maps can now be scrolled in all directions using the up, down, left and right arrow keys. If accessed from the numeric keyboard Numlock must be OFF

52) AAA reaction fires has been tweaked a bit . If they are hidden they will fire at very short ranges only or if the to-hit is better than 9%. Therefore,- hidden tanks will not pop off at passing planes unless these spot them by flying close enough, or if the aircraft or Helo gets to a 9% to hit OR at 3 or so hexes, they will blaze away as the thing is too close.

53) There has been a slight adjustment upwards for spotting hidden vehicles when using vehicles with a Vision rating of 40 and above especially if the "hidden" tank fires

54) Spotting with TI ( vision 40+ ) decrease slightly with speed. You'll spot things a bit better if you are not moving at top speed

55) There have been slight alterations to the accuracy numbers for smoothbore guns. The length/calibre cals did not give accurate numbers with shorter barrelled smoothbores like the German L44 or the US M256 and the longer Russian barrels gave them slightly higher accuracy than reality. As well. Fire Control ( FC ) and Range Finder ( RF ) ratings were not quite giving the added benefit to higher end equipment that they should have so the formulas have been slightly altered to give greater benefit to the vehicles with the higher end equipment. Each of these factors, if overdone, have a HUGE effect on gameplay and we have endeavoured to strike a fair and balanced compromise.

Sometimes even slight changes can make a noticeable difference so we've been careful not to overdo it

Don



*Blimey!* That's exactly each and every whish I had! LOL

Great work, guys. I really appreciate it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Fab

[Artur]

Gentlemen,

Can you foresee when the patch will be released? I would never urge you I would just like to know should I begin PBEM games now, or wait a little (a few days or 2-3 weeks the most) until the patch comes out.

You guys do a wonderful job with the patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Artur.

[DRG]

The patch will not be released for at least another two weeks while we run tests. There are a lot of changes we need time to test and as well there is also going to be another level of PBEM security added to the game that is less restrictive than the regular security and we need to test that ( as well as the other things )

So go ahead an play your PBEM, you'll have lots of time

Don

[Artur]

Thanks, and take your time.

Artur.

[Artur]

BTW. Are you considering to adjust the unit costs?

There are a few points described in this thread:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=375094&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

The units with TI are just that much effective. Unit costs are for making battles more or less ballanced aren't they? It is not the case now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Artur.

[DRG]

Here is the complete list of changes made to date


The Camo Workshops WinSPMBT ver1.02 Upgrade


The first 25 items contain the changes that were made to the game to create the Version 1.01 Upgrade which was the CD version. The remaining items are added to the patch to bring both the CD and the DL versions of the game up to v1.02. There will be only be ONE patch issued and it will upgrade BOTH game types.


1) Points were not correctly charged for elite or second-rate troops when bought by the human player -FIXED

2) The cost calculaton was done in floating point, leading to rounding down when e.g. a squad at 15 was revalued to 15.75 points, was reduced back to 15 when converted back to integer. Now rounds up to 16 before returning.

3) Combat sounds had short delays after them left over from the old DOS sound system which only played one track at a time. These have been removed, as well as reducing some delays on user messages appearing during combat sequences. Sounds should be quicker, and the delay when a unit was destroyed is gone.

4) A problem in XP which could cause a crash (and very rarely in Windows 98) when deleting formations on purchasing when the formation spanned 2 pages was fixed. Now when a formation is deleted, the entire list is recalculated.

5) Air weapons were not showing correctly in the scenario editor change weapons dialogue. The weapons list now shows all potential weapons, and since there was only room on the screen for 120 weapons we have added 3 "pages" accessed by entering negative numbers as the page number. -1 for page 1, -2 for weapons 120+ and -3 for weapond 200+.

6) Casualties for paratroops landing has been revised. Small one man teams should have less casualties on landing, as should vehicles especially the "airborne APC" class. Ammo containers no longer explode when dropped

7) Numerous OOB fixes - UK , Netherlands, India, and east Germany have had more work that some but a number of nations using 'Carl Gustaves" had them classed incorrectly in the weapons list and those have been corrected. There were a few other minor issued that resulted in all OOB's being point recalculated.

8) I new Scenarios added #107 Raid into Honduras 1986

9) 2 Scenarios reworked . Scenario #1 has been extensively revised and sceanrio #28 has had minor alterations

10) Game Options master Control Programme now exposes 2 variables that were only available through INI file editing.

A] Graphics delay is the minimum wait time between screen redraws,
and
B] Unit |Move delay controls the time units wait between multiple hex moves.

11) Game Messages Delay has been changed to work in roughly 1/4 second intervals and not 1/2 second. In addition, a user-editable modifier has been added to the INI file [game] section for those who require to radically aler the base messages delay level.

12) Instructions have been added to the sub folder of \Game Data\Sounds for people who may encounter sound problems on their computers when using the MP3 sound files in the game. We did not include WAV files as comparable quality WAV's would have added 144MB to the amount of HD space used by the game but we have included step by step instructions for those few players who may encounter dificulties

13) There have been a few minor alterations to some vehicle SHP files

14) a few photos used by the OOB's have been revised

15) a correction has been made to the Sounds.INI file that prevented the PPsh sound FX from playing in the game

16) two in game help texts have been revised

17) The game manual has been corrected to give you more information on the additional controls added to the GameOptions Misc page

18) UAV now considerd high flyers, above rifle and AAMG height and require proper AA guns and SAM to engage.

19) Bugs with Allied units showing the wrong experience level and ID tag were fixed.

20) Bug with points not being correctly charged for unit experience and morale levels fixed.

21) Bug where pressing previous page after a formation was deleted in the purchase screen occasionally crashed the PC fixed.

22) Bug where having more than 23 of a particular unit type simultaneously available caused the units to be unpurchaseable fixed. Now if more than 23 of a type are available att he first time, only the first 23 are displayed rather than declaring a formation invalid.

23) In the advance or delay with the traditional victory hex clusters, occasionaly these were displayed off the bottom of narow maps under 40 hexes tall. -FIXED

24) Bug where pressing escape in the map save screen after changing your mind on the selected save slot -FIXED

25) A bug whereby units in a campaign which used ARENA or VIRSS did not have the shots restored -FIXED


The following changes were added after the CD realease to make this the 1.02 patch...


26) Iraqi Picklist altered to give a more accurate " insurgent" type force composition for the AI. A further revised OOB

27) NVA Picklist altered to give a few armoured vehicles to the AI once in awhile while US forces are still engaged plus added APC infantry after the USA departed

28) There was a bug when the AI was buying 1/50th of the force value as mines in defence then 20% more if it was a river crossing or beach assault. - in campaign battles only. -FIXED

29) added "Dragons teeth" to hex mouse-over, if DTare in the hex and added "Mines" to hex mouse over if mines detected in a hex

30) AI was sometimes deploying units in lakes. FIXED

31) A "mission" button has been added to the deployment screen ( Useful if you saved during deploy, and came back 2 weeks later and forgot your mission)

31) "In scenarios, if the "reaction turn" is set to "turn 98" units will hold in place for the entire game and not counter attack to re-take V-Hexes. This includes both advance and assault and delay and defend scenarios"

32) Merkava MICV "Nemer", USMC "EFV" , British/Dutch Scarab, USA desert M3a3, German Dingo and Fennek Icons added

33) AA radars will now spot planes and helos at ranges beyond the firing unit's ground vision rating

34) The list of a campaign core force units on the upgrade/fix/review screen between battles (if allowed to refit) - was indexing incorrectly - in large cores you only saw 2-3 pages becasue the bug was skipping pages in the middle and showing first, second and last generally- FIXED

35) There were occasions when some maps said "town" or "city" etc, but none appeared or only a few villages seemed to appear. FIXED

36) Changes made to "Carry capacity" and "Carry cost" did not stick when changed in the editor. FIXED

37) Visibility can now be changed from the "View Map" screen. Previously this could only be changed before starting a battle. This allows players a second chance to do this while setting up a game ( for PBEM for example ) and now allows campaign players the option of adjusting the visibility during campaign games

38) There was a minor bug in the "View Map" screen where pressing ESC would not allow you to back out of that function without selecting a map number first. FIXED-- Pressing ESC while in the "Change Map ID" subscreen of the "View Map" screen will now properly exit that screen without having to enter a map ID number first

39) Updated South African and USMC AI Picklist

40) There was a bug that was preventing units from clearing mines after a save. FIXED

41)Thermal imaging sights ( TI ) will now have some LOS blocked by a fire hex (usually 2 or more fire hexes are needed for significant LOS degradation), and heavy smoke reduces LOS penetration very slightly, causing some "shadows". usually 5-6 hexes of freshly laid (full) smoke is needed to reduce TI penetration level slightly. Fire and smoke hexes do NOT reduce radar AA Fire Control LOS against aerial targets.

42) There was a difference between the way User Campaigns and Generated Campaigns allowed you to change ( upgrade ) units . This has now been standardized for both campaign types. The Unit list menu is now an "active" menu for both campaign types allowing you to select units to change from there

43) Mike Torrance's Campaign "Silver Lions" has been added

44) There was a bug where flak units firing at enemy aircraft increased the kill count with every hit even though no kills were made. FIXED

45) A bug where a fire mission could not be cancelled has been fixed.

46) A Bug where player 2 in a scenario could see player 1's troops during the pre game bombardment, if player one was the AI fixed.

47) A safety feature has been added to the scenario editor. The sceanrio editor will now auto saves to slot 999 on exit with title "AUTO SAVED SCENARIO"

48) The mini map was not centering on the location of the unit in use on the main map. FIXED

49) Vehicles and artillery pieces "dug in" in a hex showing a sandbagged revetments can now regain dug in status one turn after entering. They are not restricted to their original revetments and can enter any "sandbagged" hex to regain hull down status

50) The vehicle Load / Unload screen would not allow you to scroll around the map. FIXED

51) The game maps can now be scrolled in all directions using the up, down, left and right arrow keys. If accessed from the numeric keyboard Numlock must be OFF

52) AAA reaction fires has been tweaked a bit . If they are hidden they will fire at very short ranges only or if the to-hit is better than 9%. Therefore,- hidden tanks will not pop off at passing planes unless these spot them by flying close enough, or if the aircraft or Helo gets to a 9% to hit OR at 3 or so hexes, they will blaze away as the thing is too close.

53) There has been a slight adjustment upwards for spotting hidden vehicles when using vehicles with a Vision rating of 40 and above especially if the "hidden" tank fires

54) Spotting with TI ( vision 40+ ) decrease slightly with speed. You'll spot things a bit better if you are not moving at top speed

55) There have been slight alterations to the accuracy numbers for smoothbore guns. The length/calibre cals did not give accurate numbers with shorter barrelled smoothbores like the German L44 or the US M256 and the longer Russian barrels gave them slightly higher accuracy than reality. As well. Fire Control ( FC ) and Range Finder ( RF ) ratings were not quite giving the added benefit to higher end equipment that they should have so the formulas have been slightly altered to give greater benefit to the vehicles with the higher end equipment. Each of these factors, if overdone, have a HUGE effect on gameplay and we have endeavoured to strike a fair and balanced compromise. Sometimes even slight changes can make a noticeable difference so we've been careful not to overdo it

56) An additional PBEM security type has been introduced. "Basic" security will not kill a game ( in the most common cases ) if it detects something wrong. It will allow players to play on two machines ( on a laptop then back home on the desktop for example ) and it will not stop a game if both players are using different OOB sets. This is "Secuity lite" for those players who trust their opponent and just want password protection to prevent peaking and / or wants to play at work and at home and cannot with the more stringent regular PBEM security. However, it will NOT allow you to rename the save slot number of the PBEM. If you do it will kill the game.

[DRG]

Artur said:
BTW. Are you considering to adjust the unit costs?

There are a few points described in this thread:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=375094&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

The units with TI are just that much effective. Unit costs are for making battles more or less ballanced aren't they? It is not the case now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.



It's under consideration ATM

Don

Artur.

[JaM]

Nice list. Cant wait for it... Keep up good work!!!

[Artur]

DRG said:

Artur said:
BTW. Are you considering to adjust the unit costs?

There are a few points described in this thread:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=375094&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

The units with TI are just that much effective. Unit costs are for making battles more or less ballanced aren't they? It is not the case now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.


Artur.



It's under consideration ATM

Don





Wow!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Need I say more? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Artur.

[WBWilder]

Where will we find the patch, once it is offered? I looked though the Shrapnel website and found no places for patches.

WB

[scJazz]

Patches are usually posted on the Download Page for the product so on Shrapnel... WinSPMBT page, Download Page

[Nox]

Just a litle thing regarding helicopters and infantry engaging them whit rifles. Could it be made so that infantry could not engage helos at high altitude? I think this would make a nice touch to the game when the player would have to balance on wheter to fly low relatively safe from SAMS but not from infantry or fly high and not worry about infantry but be at a higher risk of beign engaged by SAMS & AA-guns.
What do you think?

[Mobhack]

then you would be back to the original SSI version, where helicopters could fly over infantry at will, revealing all the ambushes etc, if the enemy force had nil or low AA, it was night etc.

By allowing infantry to drive off any helos nearby or oveerflying, it makes e.g. the Vietnam type games less of a walk-over for USA player.

And helicopter "high" is not very high - still within small arms engagement zone.

Andy

[Artur]

Mobhack said:
then you would be back to the original SSI version, where helicopters could fly over infantry at will, revealing all the ambushes etc, if the enemy force had nil or low AA, it was night etc.

By allowing infantry to drive off any helos nearby or oveerflying, it makes e.g. the Vietnam type games less of a walk-over for USA player.

And helicopter "high" is not very high - still within small arms engagement zone.

Andy



Wouldn't be a better solution to decrease the helos' spotting ability on high altitude and restrict rifle shots on them?

Artur.

[Flyboy]

One minor OOB suggestion, re: Canada.

The ADATS (Air Defence Anti-Tank System) in the game is AA only (can't be used to shoot tanks, even though in real life they load TOW missiles, I believe). Would it be possible to code the ADATS to engage tanks as well as aircraft?


One other suggestion: add Venezuela OOB, make Pat Robertson happy? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Apart from that, keep it up. Love the game and can't wait for the patch.

[Mobhack]

Flyboy said:
One minor OOB suggestion, re: Canada.

The ADATS (Air Defence Anti-Tank System) in the game is AA only (can't be used to shoot tanks, even though in real life they load TOW missiles, I believe). Would it be possible to code the ADATS to engage tanks as well as aircraft?

Apart from that, keep it up. Love the game and can't wait for the patch.



Hmm - have you actually tried firing it at AFV type targets? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Special code exists for ATATS - and the missile is dual-purpose, they dont load TOW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Cheers
Andy

[Flyboy]

Mobhack said:

Hmm - have you actually tried firing it at AFV type targets? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Special code exists for ATATS - and the missile is dual-purpose, they dont load TOW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Cheers
Andy



Sorry to be obtuse - but do you mean the ADATS can shoot AFVs in WinMBT? I have to admit that this was a suggestion that carried over from SPMBT, so no, I haven't tried it.

BTW - I used to live in Edinburgh too (Dalkeith Road). In Canada now.

[DRG]

Flyboy said:
<snip> - but do you mean the ADATS can shoot AFVs in WinMBT? I have to admit that this was a suggestion that carried over from SPMBT, so no, I haven't tried it.



Yes, it **will** target tanks AND aircraft. It's always worth testing things before commenting

Don

[Mobhack]

Flyboy said:

Mobhack said:

Hmm - have you actually tried firing it at AFV type targets? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Special code exists for ATATS - and the missile is dual-purpose, they dont load TOW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Cheers
Andy



Sorry to be obtuse - but do you mean the ADATS can shoot AFVs in WinMBT? I have to admit that this was a suggestion that carried over from SPMBT, so no, I haven't tried it.

BTW - I used to live in Edinburgh too (Dalkeith Road). In Canada now.



Yes - special code for SAM with HEAT values, which has always been there (check the weapon stats for details in Mobhack) - only ADATS uses this code feature.

Not detailed in the diocumentation as such a minor item for (?2?) user nations. But anyone running light recce AVF round in the rear zone of a modern Canadian army trying to play "whack the SAMS" may find themselves getting slapped back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

Try a test scenario and you will see them use HEAT values if they strike an AFV. The round is dual purpose SAM/ATGM - no need to have separate ATGM "rounds" issued in the OOB.

Though I would not go deliberately using them as tank hunters as perhaps too a) big/obvious and b) valuable to risk as such.

Cheers
Andy

[Alby]

This unit did this in sp3 also.
It engaged AFVs, but was not recommended for use as an anti tank weapon... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DRG]

Here are the latests additons / corrections added to the patch

57] A new message will appear when ground units fire at aircraft and Helicopters indicating whether the aircraft / helo was hit by ground fire. The code has always run tests to see if a hit would cause damage but untill now you had no way of knowing if you were taking hits or not before the damage occured. Now you will see a message indicating that a hit has occured. If Damage is taken a second message indicating the damage will appear right after the hit message

58] Artillery and aircraft bomb collateral blast damage has been adjusted. Artillery cluster munitions have a minimum blast radius of 1 now and air-dropped cluster bombs have a radius of 2 hexes (speed and height of delivery, larger footprint). Previous versions of the executable had blast damage into surrounding hexes as well but we discovered a bit of code that was reducing this after it had been applied. That bit of code has been commented out and now you will find aircraft weapons and large calibre arty gives blast effects out to , in the case of 2000 lb bombs, a potentially lethal area of 200 yards around the point of impact. As well, there is a new game function that allows you to see the potential blast radius while the artillery barrage or airstrike is going on. Pressing the "R" key while in the bombardment or "Z" key menu will turn on or off the blast radius markers. There are white circles that show the maximum blast radius and there are yellow circles that show when known enemy units that are within the main blast radius are damaged by the blast effects. It is important to remember that even though the blast effect for some weapons like 2000 pound bombs may be quite large this does **NOT** mean that every hex and unit within the blast effect area is affected by the blast. This addition allows players who are interested to see just how the blast area works in the game. Blast effects are reduced by the distance from the impact hex, and the usual effects of dug-in status, being in cover etc. Cluster munitions are more evenly distributed over the blast area than an HE round, so range effect is reduced for them. Armoured vehicles more than 1 hex from the impact will tend to be supressed by blast rather than be destroyed by fragments, except with cluster munitions.

59] Units retreating and routed will now surrender a bit more than previous when the situation is "hopeless". There is less chance of a routed unit retreating into an enemy occupied hex now

60] There was a bug which deselected the current unit if you went to the HQ menu and then exited as player 2 in a game. In certain circumstances you could then examine player 1's artillery menu, and his force structure. FIXED


Attached is a screen shot showing "Blast Radius ON" when used with "Fast Arty" ON. This represents an MLRS cluster munitions attack

[Marek_Tucan]

Sounds just GREAT!

Thanks!

[RecruitMonty]

So when will the new sound package be out then?

[JaM]

Guys, Stop! You will deplete all ideas,so this game will not need any other patch ever! Your work on it is great! Cant wait for it!

[DRG]

RecruitMonty said:
So when will the new sound package be out then?



Sound package?? What "sound package"? Where did we say there would be a sound package? Are you one of the guys that cannot hear sound becasue your machine doesn't process multiple MP3s?

are you referring to....

12) Instructions have been added to the sub folder of \Game Data\Sounds for people who may encounter sound problems on their computers when using the MP3 sound files in the game. We did not include WAV files as comparable quality WAV's would have added 144MB to the amount of HD space used by the game but we have included step by step instructions for those few players who may encounter dificulties

??
Don

[DRG]

Here are the further changes added today. We are aiming to make these the last changes so we can start to fully test without further distractions

Don

-----------------------------------------------------------

61] The CostCalculator ( and all the OOB's ) has been altered to give extra cost for high-tech equipment ( Vision, Range Finder, Fire control etc) . Generally this penalises modern kit more, with early kit staying about the same, especially if fitted with high end range finder, stabiliser, FC 35+, thermal vision etc.

- TI type sights (vision>=40) cost more (about a 40+ point raise)
- Range finder costs more, esp. range 20 or so plus
- FC, esp. over the 35 value, cost more
- stabilisers cost a bit more
- Electronic warfare (EW) more costly per point
- AAA radar FC more costly (sees planes through smoke now)
- Open topped armoured vehicles a few points cheaper

For example. A M1A2 SEP Abrams previously cost 443 points ( that is the BASE cost unadjusted for moral and experience). It now costs 526 points. An Iraqi T-72G with Vision 30 was 236 points it costs 244 now so it's really only the higher end equipment that gets the increases.

62] Cluster munitions costs and ICM (arty AP rounds) have been revised. They were not being charged very much. That has been changed upwards They are also more effective now.

[Artur]

DRG said:
...

61] The CostCalculator ( and all the OOB's ) has been altered to give extra cost for high-tech equipment ( Vision, Range Finder, Fire control etc) . Generally this penalises modern kit more, with early kit staying about the same, especially if fitted with high end range finder, stabiliser, FC 35+, thermal vision etc.

- TI type sights (vision>=40) cost more (about a 40+ point raise)
- Range finder costs more, esp. range 20 or so plus
- FC, esp. over the 35 value, cost more
- stabilisers cost a bit more
- Electronic warfare (EW) more costly per point
- AAA radar FC more costly (sees planes through smoke now)
- Open topped armoured vehicles a few points cheaper

For example. A M1A2 SEP Abrams previously cost 443 points ( that is the BASE cost unadjusted for moral and experience). It now costs 526 points. An Iraqi T-72G with Vision 30 was 236 points it costs 244 now so it's really only the higher end equipment that gets the increases.

...




Thank you for considering the cost issue. I have a very last comment before i run for my life...:D.

The abrams is worth much more than 2T72s could you adjust there values like that so an Abrams / T72 point ratio would be 3:1? Vis>= 40 > +80 pts, range finder +40 pts etc...

You do an awesome job with this patch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Artur.

[Listy]

how about being able to stack units in MOBhack..

For some reason you can put paltoons and sections into companies, but not sections into platoons

[DRG]

Listy said:
how about being able to stack units in MOBhack..

For some reason you can put paltoons and sections into companies, but not sections into platoons



That would be the equivalant of building a two story house, filling it with furnature and landscaping the grounds then tearing up the foundation becasue you wanted to put a root cellar under the front porch.

Sections and platoons go into Companies . "Companies" are the only formations that have that capablity. That's the way it works and it's not going to change

Don

[Mobhack]

Nope

What you are asking for would be an almost complete rewrite of the C&C code, rallying etc of the game. Not to mention purchase screen code and so on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!. A section is simply a renamed platoon in game terms, with a sergeant in command.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Artur said:


The abrams is worth much more than 2T72s could you adjust there values like that so an Abrams / T72 point ratio would be 3:1? Vis>= 40 > +80 pts, range finder +40 pts etc...

Artur.



In GAME terms that is very close to what I have have now. An Iraqi RG T-72A costs 194 points with the new calculations and that is with the 10 morale and 10 experience boost the RG units get.

An M1A2 costs 531 and four companies of RG T-72's can be bought for the same cost as 4 platoons of M1A2's. That adds up to 44 T-72's vs 16 M1A2's which is pretty close to 3:1

( and that may make you happy but I can promise someone else won't be )

Don

[Artur]

DRG said:

Artur said:


The abrams is worth much more than 2T72s could you adjust there values like that so an Abrams / T72 point ratio would be 3:1? Vis>= 40 > +80 pts, range finder +40 pts etc...

Artur.



In GAME terms that is very close to what I have have now. An Iraqi RG T-72A costs 194 points with the new calculations and that is with the 10 morale and 10 experience boost the RG units get.

An M1A2 costs 531 and four companies of RG T-72's can be bought for the same cost as 4 platoons of M1A2's. That adds up to 44 T-72's vs 16 M1A2's which is pretty close to 3:1

( and that may make you happy but I can promise someone else won't be )

Don



Guys I am speachless. I never ever had contact with developers that were so open and so ready for hearing player feedback. As I am a software engineer I appreciate that even more. (I know some features are very hard to implement and some are very easy to do ).

I had 4 comments
-formation deletion bug
-fortified hex reentry
-cost issues
-helos hit by rifle effect
and 3 were accepted. Way to go guys.

Maybe one day you will find out something about this helo issue to make the Vietnam war fans happy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif BTW is that realistic that helos are so vulnerable to rifle fire?

Artur.

[Marek_Tucan]

Artur said:
BTW is that realistic that helos are so vulnerable to rifle fire?





IIRC in Afghanistan one Hind was downed by a lucky Mujaheddin who'se 7.62x39mm bullet went through some soft place in the cockpit and killed (or seriously wounded) pilot.

[dita]

Just got back from holiday and spent a good 20 minutes going thought this post reading about all the changes. As I went from post to post, my jaw just kept dropping further and further....

Excellent work, cant wait.

[DRG]

Once we issue the patch we start work on WinSPWW2 and once we start on WinSPWW2 there will be very little time for further work on WinSPMBT so this patch is a big one becasue of that

Don

[Alpha]

well i also think most changes seem to be good.

[JagdtigerPL]

some news about patch?

[DRG]

1-2 weeks. It just went to the playtesters for a final look over.

Don

[JagdtigerPL]

I'm glad to be the playtester http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[desh44]

Looking forward to the patch Don....You and Andy have been doing a fantastic job working on the patch and keeping up with things on the forum....My hats off to you both. Your work is greatly appreciated by all of us SP gamers out there

Tom D

[Pepper]

I second Tom D's comments.

What are your two stories anyhow? How'd you find yourselves in this position? Did you guys design the original game, or are you just coders who have taken on the SP series as a side-project? Seems like you've put in lots of time and effort -- its appreciated!

[DRG]

Pepper said:
I second Tom D's comments.

What are your two stories anyhow? How'd you find yourselves in this position? Did you guys design the original game, or are you just coders who have taken on the SP series as a side-project? Seems like you've put in lots of time and effort -- its appreciated!



It's a L O N G story and some of it is a bit of a soap opera and I won't get into that but Andy and I have been working on SP mods since 1998. The first game was a Hex Editor hacked WW2 version of SP2 released in Dec 1998 called SP2WW2. We got access to the game code in July 1999 and have been working on SPWW2 then SPMBT ever since. We took a break for a half year or so in 2003. The development history for WinSPMBT is in the Game guide and if you have a copy of SPww2 that history is in that guide as well.

Don

[RVPERTVS]

Looking forward to the patch here too

In case I'm still in time, I would suggest a toggle feature showing who's attacking who on enemy's turn (or either)and of course just for detected enemies (optional?)
I'm talking about a red line and hex mark just like the one used by the target feature, just like if the enemy were using it and I can see it.

Sometimes it gets tricky to follow the oncomings with all those little tiny rifle bullets flying around.

Thanks in advance

[Akmatov]

"OK, you've got it.

51) The game maps can now be scrolled in all directions using the up, down, left and right arrow keys. If accessed from the numeric keyboard Numlock must be OFF

Don"

Don, I've wanted this since SP first came out! THANK YOU!!!!!

[RVPERTVS]

Oh yeah, arrow scrolling is a feature (among others) I´m eagerly waiting to use in this game. It´s just getting better and better. Congratulations for such a superb game¡¡¡

Don, is there any chance to consider the feature I suggested? (the one that would display who´s attacking who by a red line and hex mark, or whatever)

I think it would help us a lot to keep track of events going on in the battlefield.

Thanks in advance, and congratulations again

[JaM]

This game already have things coded that are unreal in real fight (like number of enemy sighted, etc...) you have complete control of all your units (real commander dont), you know everything about all enemy units spotted (real commander dont), you know exactly what type of T-72 is firing at you without problem (it is a real difference if you stand against T-72 or T-72BM... Do you really think that game needs other feature to make it easier?

[scJazz]

RVPERTVS said:
Don, is there any chance to consider the feature I suggested? (the one that would display who´s attacking who by a red line and hex mark, or whatever)

I think it would help us a lot to keep track of events going on in the battlefield.

Thanks in advance, and congratulations again



Some days I really want this feature. Others I don't. In the interest of self honesty I'm going to say I don't want it. The only time I desire it is when I'm faced with a bunch of bad guys that I've softened up and I'm looking for the one that is still capable of firing. I doubt IRL that a soldier would have the time and concentration to figure out which of a platoon of tanks was still undamaged and returning fire.

On the other hand the camo paint jobs on these icons really does a number on my eyes after hours of play. I would love a set of day glow blue and red icons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif or hilited hexes where friendly units or sighted enemy units are located.

[Mobhack]

If you need to know where the enemy are, then switch the ID tags on. I consider them a "semi cheat" as they highlight that RPG team you had forgotten about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Andy

[RVPERTVS]

I know what you are saying, but just consider this:

1.- It would be optional (toggle)

2.- I don´t need to know where the enemy is, what I need to know in some cases is what enemy unit is attacking me.

3.- It would be for already detected enemies only (it could be optional though)

I know we all are looking for realistic gameplay and stuff, I´m just talking about knowing in every single attack what enemy is hiting you, and I´m not talking about undetected enemies, I´m talking about already detected ones. After all it´s a viedogame isn´t it?

[DRG]

As Andy pointed out. That's why ID tags are helpful. It covers points 1 and 3 perfectly.

Don

[Double_Deuce]

DRG said:
As Andy pointed out. That's why ID tags are helpful. It covers points 1 and 3 perfectly.


I can vouch for that fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[RVPERTVS]

Actually it was number 2 I was more interested about.

Anuway, my point was: sometimes I don´t know what (already detected) enemy is attacking me.

[Artur]

Gentlemen,

Will the Game CD version be updated to V2.0 ?
I wish to order the CD version and I wonder if I should wait until the patch comes out and order after that or will I have to DL the patch anyway...

BTW any news about the patch release date? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Artur.

[DRG]

The game CD's will remain ver 1.01 for now and the upgrade patch needs to be applied to them.

The patch should be available sometime in the next two weeks

Don

[whdonnelly]

I 'm about to buy a couple of CDs for friends without internet. Are the CD's still at v1.01?
Will

[DRG]

Yes....as far as I know they are. The ver 2 patch and then ver 2.5 supplement will need to be applied ( in order ) and that will bring the game up to ver 2.5. If you want the 2.51 version with the turrets that track the enemy that is available on the main forum page

Don

[whdonnelly]

Thanks. I'll send the patches on CDs also.
Will

[JohnHale]

DRG said:
As Andy pointed out. That's why ID tags are helpful. It covers points 1 and 3 perfectly.

Don





I NEVER play PBEM without having ID tags displayed.

[hawk66]

Did you consider to provide the enhanced version as a download version in the future? (no custom issues etc.)

Anyway, thanks for that great game!

[Mobhack]

Did you consider to provide the enhanced version as a download version in the future? (no custom issues etc.)

Anyway, thanks for that great game!

No.

The CD version was provided in that format precisely because people were asking for a physical copy. And some folk wanted some sort of printed manual, even if it was just a primer.

Cheers
Andy

[Wdll]

Did you consider to provide the enhanced version as a download version in the future? (no custom issues etc.)

Anyway, thanks for that great game!

You can always order the CD and then just copy the files to a hardrive. I haven't tried it (I installed it directly from the disc), but it might work.