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[WBWilder]

To MobHack, Pyros, or DRG...

About ammo canisters. Do they supply ammo to troops who move adjacent to them? If they do, what is the rate of resupply?

In a paradrop, can you have the landing infantry with very limited ammo move to these canisters or containers and be resupplied, even if under fire. If suppressed, I would assume that the ammo transfer would cease. Is that correct?

By the way, strangely, the aircraft for airdrops aircraft are not listed under "Airborne" but under "artillery."

I'm using the purchased version of the game. Thanks in advance for your help.

WB

[scJazz]

Hey Bill, I know you directed the question to Camo but if it helps you along here is part of the answer.

From what I've seen...
1) a unit has to be adjacent to the ammo dump
2) order of resupply occurs in order of unit number eg B0 gets ammo before B1
3) amount of ammo reloaded is dependant on size of warhead so a lot of 5.56mm ammo will be given out in a turn or a couple of 155mm shells (I've seen slightly depleted infantry get FULL reloads of all weapons in a single turn and about 5 155mm rounds reloaded in a turn)
4) the dump and the unit have to be at rest for a whole turn in order for a reload to occur eg unit move adjacent to dump, next turn unit does not move, next turn reloads occur NOTE: I might be wrong about this part
5) I do not know what suppression does to the reload process
6) I don't think it would be possible to do the low ammo para drop and then full reload since the only way to lower a units ammo would be to edit it and at that point I think its max ammo load would be the number you entered to lower the ammo load

Again points 4,5,6 are a bit fuzzy. 1,2,3 are fairly rock solid.

If time was of the essence I hope this helped.

Keep up the astonishing work WB. Really enjoying your scenarios.

Jazz

[Pyros]

Hi WB,

Actually every question is covered in the game manual, so here is what you get in the MBT unit classes unit class 56= ammo carrier:

Replenishes ammunition expended. Both supplier and customer must be halted and in range for the supply unit (see below). Helicopters must land to be resupplied.

AMMO CANISTER, crew is 1 and speed must be 0, usually transportable, supplies small ammo only (to WH size 3), low supply points per move (20 ammo points) (Originally the ammo box icon for this was done only for a particular WinSPWW2 scenario using German paras (who only dropped armed with pistols), but left in for specialised scenario usage). Range 1 hex.

AMMO DUMP, 6 or more men, speed must be 0, loadcost>49, an ammo dump supplies at lower rate (~1/2 rate) at 2 hexes range, full rate at 1 or less, has more supply per move (60 ammo points)

Anything else is a normal ammo truck (even if armoured), 40 ammo supply points per move. Range 1 hex.

NB, ammo units no longer supply points to an infinite number of 'customers' as in previous SP games, they supply one customer until it is topped off, then move on to the next. The order will be in unit list order (units further up the roster will be supplied first). You cannot cluster an entire company round 1 ammo truck and have all load equally any more.

Ammo resupply is based on the weapon size, WH 1 rifle ammo gets more rounds resupplied than a size 10 missile say.

When destroyed, ammo units may generate secondary explosions in their own and nearby hexes. These are effectively 1000lb bomb bursts.

You cannot play the old SP2 trick of loading a hovering missile firing helo from an ammo truck beside it - helicopters now need to land to resupply!.

cheers,
Pyros

[Pyros]

WBWilder said:
To MobHack, Pyros, or DRG...

By the way, strangely, the aircraft for airdrops aircraft are not listed under "Airborne" but under "artillery."

WB



WB,

If you take a closer look you will notice that the button says switch to Airborne or Artillery etc...
Also in the up-right corner of the menu you will see/read the small title of "Airborne".

So when you press "switch to Airborne" you will next see in the switch button the text: "switch to Artillery", but you will actually be in the Airborne enviroment (only if you press the switch to artillery" you will change to artillery).

cheers,
Pyros

p.s high suppression (bigger than 10-15) will prevent your unit from re-supply (I may be wrong on this, if so Don or Andy will correct me; but from experience I can tell you that a suppression of 5 won't matter, but a suppression of 25 will stop completely your unit from re-supplying)

[DRG]

Bill, I'm sorry but I just do not have time right now to answer you in detail. As I recall ammo transfer ceases under fire

I checked the screen the transports arrived in and the first time I thought I'd seen what you described.... the transports in the arty screen but the next time I checked I realized I was looking at the name on the "switch to" button. That will say artillery when you are in airborne because that the next screen after airborne. Try setting up a test scenario and look for the screen name to appear in the top right hand corner of the screen. It should say "airborne" when the "switch to" button says "artillery. If you see the screen name as artillery and the transports are in there please make a save and send it too us. The first time I tried this I thought I saw what you saw as well but I'm a little short on sleep ATM. The next time I tried everything was OK. HOWEVER...... what we MAY have is an intermittent bug so if you do see the transports sitting in the screen named artillery please save it for us so we can debug it

Don

[Double_Deuce]

I double checked it also. Its the "Switch To" button that says Artillery. The text in the upper right says "Airborne".

[Mobhack]

Also - ammo containers are limited to a maximum warhead size (may be shot size) of 3 ISTR.

They are meant to resupply onlt small arms ammo etc, though because of the way the database is organised, may resupply some things they were not intended to (such as MLRS which has a weapon size (just checked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - of 1 to enable quick resupply.

looks like ammo supply works off the weapon size and NOT warhead size. Weapon size variable is only used for resupply - so 203mm MLRS and the URAGAN are 1, to enable resupply quickly (palletised ammo), which puts them in the same "bracket" as rifle ammo.. so ammo containers will resupply them. A database quirk which could be utilised as a "cheat" by unscrupulous players, but nothing we can do about it (we wanted quick reload capacity for particular MLRS systems).

As a scenario designer - the AI knows nothing about ammo units. it will "kamikaze" ammo trucks at objectives, etc. HOWEVER - where the AI is static (delaying or defending) then ammo units placed close by (1 hex for most, 2 at half the supply rate for ammo dump and ammo bunker) defenders can be useful to extend the shots available for low round units (SAM, inf-SAM, inf-ATGM etc).

If the AI is defending/delaying - I would consider placing ammo bunkers (less chance of being destroyed to blow up with 1000lb bomb seconadary explosion effects http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif beside key AI defensive units (inf-SAM, SAM with only 1-3 shots, sagger teams with but 4 ATGM etc). This would give the AI better "staying power" against human air strikes, and MBT.


cheers
Andy

[WBWilder]

Wow! Now that is information. Sorry I missed in the manual. I really did look, but my eyes are old and tired! Sorry to bother you.

You really answered in great deal and this helps immensely. I appreciate the time each of you took to add something to the knowledge pile. I think I have it now.

And Jazz, I appreciate the kind words. More are "ON THE WAY!"

WB

[WBWilder]

Okay, I've got that down. I've discovered some things about these canisters.

1. They only replenish the weapon of the first slot. Any secondary weapons seem to remain with the same amount of ammo for their other weapons. Am I correct?

2. They replenish one unit at a time. They appear not to replenish other units until the first replenished unit moves away.

Example; I have three units adjacent to an ammo canister, all infantry units. Unit A gets some 40 points, maybe more, in one turn. Units B & C get nothing until A moves away from the canister.

3. It seems that once replenished, they cannot fire the replenished weapon in the same turn that they move away from the canister. Is that true? Do they have to wait one full turn before firing their primary weapon?

4. Canisters when suppressed or a unit "refilling" when suppressed stop the process. This makes sense.

Thanks,
Wild Bill

[Mobhack]

WBWilder said:
Okay, I've got that down. I've discovered some things about these canisters.

1. They only replenish the weapon of the first slot. Any secondary weapons seem to remain with the same amount of ammo for their other weapons. Am I correct?

[/i]

They will replenish from slot 1 down to slot 4. if the thing is firing, it may not get the chance to fully top up slot 1. The slot 2+ weapons may also have a shot size too large for the cannister to replenish.



2. They replenish one unit at a time. They appear not to replenish other units until the first replenished unit moves away.




Yes. We already mentioned in the manual (in the development history segment probably) that the old SSI SP games "feature" where ammo units gave supply to all units in range was removed. The supply unit services the first unit in the unit purchase order. It will only supply the next in sequence if in range if the first one is fully topped up, when it will give any surplus supply points to that next unit. And if the first unit is doing something like say firing then that may well not happen at all.

You cannot use the old SSI SP series games "trick" of buying one ammo truck, and then clustering an infinite number of units beside it and then all those infinite units got the full supply value of the ammo truck!.

You'll likely need 1 ammo unit "seller" per prospective "buyer". Hopwever, I find that 2 2-tube 81mm mortar sections both within 1 hex of the same ammo bunker can fire continuously for a full game as the resupply value of that (and the ammo dump) is the highest in the game. Move them to 2 hexes from the bunker and the tubes will run dry eventually (in which case stop both firing for 3-4 turns will fill em up). An ammo dump is NOT a good idea for supplying the mortars, as mortars will eventually attract incoming, and the dump is rather vulnerable (if reasonably cheap), where the ammo bunker is protected, though expensive.




Example; I have three units adjacent to an ammo canister, all infantry units. Unit A gets some 40 points, maybe more, in one turn. Units B & C get nothing until A moves away from the canister.




When A is filled up, B will start to get supply. if A is firing continuously, B and C will get no or little supply as A is hogging it.

Cycle A,B and C through the ammo container. For quicker resupply, do that out of contact (do not fire and bomb up at the same time).

(In long campaigns, I like to add a canister to inf-SAM units in a light truck. Once I get them to thier overwatch position and unload them, I walk them away from the canister by 3-4 hexes and then later walk them back to it to top up as required, the light truck or APC then waiting nearby to carry off the sams and container package if the firing position needs a radical shift - like running away from some enemy flank attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!



3. It seems that once replenished, they cannot fire the replenished weapon in the same turn that they move away from the canister. Is that true? Do they have to wait one full turn before firing their primary weapon?



That would be the normal movement rules. Are you looking at an ATGM or SAM or other missile (which if it moves too far cannot shoot) or trying to plot an arty unit (which cannot plot or fire indirect if it moves)?.



4. Canisters when suppressed or a unit "refilling" when suppressed stop the process. This makes sense.

Thanks,
Wild Bill



low supression may allow some supply points, but "S" reduces the points available to transfer.

[WBWilder]

Again, good answers all. Thanks Andy. I'm clear on the matter now.

WB