Special Forces

[tempes156]

Just noticed that there are no U.S. SF or SEALs. Curious as to why not? UK and other nations have their spec ops units represented (ie SAS).

Tempes

[DRG]

If you look a bit closer you will find Ranger formations in the US OOB and SEAL platoons in the USMC OOB

Don

[tempes156]

Ahh, didn't look in the USMC, so pardon missed that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Rangers yes, but no SF. Two very different beasts.

[whdonnelly]

Has anyone been able to edit either SOF units or a SOF helo that can unload into either buildings or forest hexes, to represent the fast-ropes and other rappel missions from helos? I haven't been able to figure it out yet.
Will

[Pepper]

whdonnelly said:
Has anyone been able to edit either SOF units or a SOF helo that can unload into either buildings or forest hexes, to represent the fast-ropes and other rappel missions from helos? I haven't been able to figure it out yet.
Will



This would be a nice function. I was trying to do an urban assault with helo insertions and wanted to do this but alas ... doesn't appear possible to me (probably hard coded into what helo can and cannot do -- i.e. cannot land on hexes with anything in them: trees, buildings, etc.)

[Pepper]

tempes156 said:
Ahh, didn't look in the USMC, so pardon missed that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Rangers yes, but no SF. Two very different beasts.



Rangers are part of USSOCOM just like SEALs, Delta, PJs, etc.

Marine Force Recon are the only holdouts, I think.

[PlasmaKrab]

Pepper said:

whdonnelly said:
Has anyone been able to edit either SOF units or a SOF helo that can unload into either buildings or forest hexes, to represent the fast-ropes and other rappel missions from helos? I haven't been able to figure it out yet.
Will

This would be a nice function. I was trying to do an urban assault with helo insertions and wanted to do this but alas ... doesn't appear possible to me (probably hard coded into what helo can and cannot do -- i.e. cannot land on hexes with anything in them: trees, buildings, etc.)

Thinking about this, would there by any chance be some workaround that would allow to have controllable paradropping helos? I know that there would be asolutely no point to that considering that you can just land the helo and get rid of the various annoyances involved in paradropping, but that could provide a way to drop SF or such (top-notch tough guys anyway, in game terms they'd have o e to avoid breaking three ankles each while ctually dropping on BUA) on any non-landable terrain.
That would be something purely editor-controlled of course.

I'm just tossing that idea into the air, I have positively no idea how that would work, even if it would have any chance to work, ut if anyone fees desperate enough to try something on this line...

[AB]

I've thought a good way to represent US Special Forces - in a campaign anyway - is to create an elite 6 man HQ team (the normal HQ unit in a campaign), and then three two-man company HQ teams. These would represent a fill 12 man A-Team, with additional 'indiginous' type troops assigned to the Company HQ - representing the Special Forces Advisors leading 'G's'. Add an FO type unit to represent an CCT team, and you have a full A team led guerilla force.

[whdonnelly]

I was going to try and mobhack a "Ranger/Commando" class helo that can land or unload anywhere, but I can't find the area to delete forbidden terrain. Still, that might leave an unfair ability to pick-up anywhere, also.
Will

[tempes156]

Would love to see SF A-teams added into the US OOB, as creating scenarios/campaigns that focus on the conflicts we are seeing today require them to a very large degree.

[PlasmaKrab]

tempes156 said:
Would love to see SF A-teams added into the US OOB, as creating scenarios/campaigns that focus on the conflicts we are seeing today require them to a very large degree.

These are the kind of units you can mod at will by changing their data in the scenario design screen. Take some suitable US commando team (or buy a captured suitable foreign one if you don't find it in the US OOB, just the same), then edit name, men number, experience, weapons, speed.......

[tempes156]

Yes, can do that.

Still curious why they aren't included though, SAS and others are.

Look at it this way, if you want an accurate OOB based on time period, they are essential (they being SF, Delta, etc). Would it make sense to leave out Sayeret Units for Israel at any point? No, it wouldn't.

[DRG]

The Rangers units are meant to cover US Army SF. Note their experience and moral modifiers. That's a SF boost

Don

[tempes156]

Gotcha. Thanks for the reply Don, know you are a busy fellow with many other things you need to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You guys do a great job, in case you don't hear it enough.

[DRG]

Thanks, we Do appreciate it

Don

[Pepper]

A quick follow-up question. In reviewing the various SF forces today, I found US Rangers to be 15/15 (Morale/Experience) versus SEALs at 10/10 versus USMC Force Recon at 10/10 versus SAS at 20/25 (!).

Is the SAS really considered that superior? For that matter, aren't SEALs considered "more elite" than Rangers or USMC FR? And USMC FR more than Rangers?

Just curious (I know I can adjust it).

[AB]

Regarding the 10/10 vs. 15/15, the marines and SEALs start 5 points higher (mabe 10) than the army units, because the base of the regualar marines is higher than the army. So adding 15 to army units and 10 to SEALS/FR brings them to about the same level.

Regarding SEALS vs. Ranger, SEALs would generally be considered 'more elite'. They are often career types, so their age and experience is greater, and their initial training is longer. FR is generally more on par with the SEALs than Rangers.

I think it is arguable as to whether SEALs/FR/SAS is the better unit. Perhaps the SAS is slightly better/more experienced. I'm not sure it should be 20/25 compared to the bonus the SEALs/FR get though. That does seem a bit high.