I have never won a sp game...

[High_Priest_Naresh]

I have never won a sp game in a year of playing why???? I know what to do yet it doesnt click! wiht the game if only...

[shovah]

probly because of the mass ai armies since they recruit and summon at random as they advance ( my problem is that late game i get obsessed with getting a certain spell/summon and forget to recruit for ages . also i expand really slowly)

[Endoperez]

Try having different victory conditions. 60% of the provinces, 50% of the 20 victory points, 5 of the 8 capitals (1 vp per capital, no extra vps, 7 AIs)... I don't think I will conquer all the AI's provinces in DomII, ever. And I have never done that, either. It just isn't fun to beat a dead horse.

[High_Priest_Naresh]

it just make me feel usless...

[shovah]

well atleast your not the only useless one

[Molog]

Try playing soul gate Ermor. You should pwnzr the AI.

[PDF]

Neither did I, in 2 years of play... Just because it bores me to continue game vs the AI past turn 30-40 at most, ...
I use SP as a training ground for pretender and basic expansion strategies, but not as "full games"; only MP ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[High_Priest_Naresh]

but no one wants to play mp with me...

[Arralen]

Come over to #dominions on irc://irc.eu.gamesurge.net - at the weekend you can meet someone for a blitz there easily.

[PDF]

High_Priest_Naresh said:
but no one wants to play mp with me...



No problem to play with (or against) you, even if you're English http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif ... I only play pbem, no ip (lack of time for long play sessions).

[shovah]

just won my first sp game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif doom horror prophet with 9 everything bless then wished for power on itself ( 9 everything bless came from wishing for magic power with my pretender alot )

[High_Priest_Naresh]

I can only PBEM so if any one or ones want a quick game....

[magnate]

shovah said:
just won my first sp game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif doom horror prophet with 9 everything bless then wished for power on itself ( 9 everything bless came from wishing for magic power with my pretender alot )



?? The bless effects are fixed at the start of the game, so wishing for magic power on your pretender shouldn't make any difference. Can you post a screenie of your prophet with 9-eveything bless?

I really don't understand how people's games can go on for so long that they cast loads of wishes and empowerment and stuff. My longest game ever (on Orania map) is 86 turns. That's enough to get one or two schools to level 9 (on Normal research) - maybe 3 if you ignore the others. I have never yet cast Wish in any game, simply because Alteration 9 is so low on my list of priorities (Blood 6, Conj 7 or 9, Alt 6, Const 8, Ench 5 etc.).

I do agree that mopping up the last couple of dozen AI provinces is tedious when I control 90% of the map, but I don't really like any of the other victory conditions. You can control 5 of 8 capitals (or even 7 of 8) and still not be in a winning position. Ditto with VP provinces (really hate those). I guess I could go for a "80% of provinces" VC.

Anyway, I've read a lot of stuff in recent threads about how crap SP is, and I love it. I love MP too, of course, nothing gets the adrenaline going quite like it, but I think SP is fine. Ok so the AI is not perfect, but it's still challenging enough. I don't build castles (because I know the AI cannot) but otherwise I play exactly as I would in MP. It's good practice.

CC

[Endoperez]

Its about the same with me, except that I do build castles. I use mainly normal units, though, and thus the mass armies the AIs use do offer some challenge.

[High_Priest_Naresh]

I cannot understand how you can win!

[Endoperez]

I win when I have fun. Don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

One of the greatest games I ever had barely lasted for 20 turns. I was Mictlan, and lost the game. I had chosen scales that didn't work very well, and made mistakes both tactical and strategical, but the events are what made the game fun. <font color="blue"> Click here </font> (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=323415) if you are interested in the story

[sushiboat]

Naresh, maybe you should give us more details about how you play the game against the AI, what maps you have played, when and how the AI is overwhelming you, etc. It's hard to give good advice when we don't have any information about what you are doing wrong.

[shovah]

maybe he didnt get the bless effects, mustve been items or somethin ( but still, doom horror with 200 health 36 prot and 40 attack defence and strength. he also has 14 regen and his usual +15 fear and +2 blood vengance is pretty fun )

[High_Priest_Naresh]

75% magic rich 15 hof
easy research
usually play against abysia ulm man or jontun
they just surround me with overwhelming numbers and wait build temples forts then cast spells like Fires from afar and seeking arrow it can be really annoying
thier difficulty is easy...
sad innit?

[Endoperez]

You left out indep. str, but I quess you have it quite high. Try advancing more carefully, or playing with fewer enemies. And as especially Ulm and Jotunheim have much better provincial defence than is usual, you should learn to use it. However, don't buy it everywhere. Having 1 is enough vs AI if it cannot reach it with normal armies, because AI rarely uses transport or distant summon spells with any real skill.

[sushiboat]

Naresh, I still don't know much about how you play. Are you relying mostly on national troops? Are you getting a good gem income? What spells or items do you use to decide what to research? Do you build forts? Have you ever used a supercombatant (SC)? Do you recruit at least one mage per turn? What scales do you use? What is the Pretender design you have been using recently?

Go to the Illwinter Maps (http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/maps.html) website and download the Talis map. Pick an opponent (Abysia, Ulm, Man, and Jotunheim are all fine), pick your own nation, and stick with that setup until you win a few games.

As for PD, I would recommend 11 in every province, when you can afford it. The AI knows how large your total army is. PD counts toward your total army size. Having a relatively large army can deter the AI from starting an early war with you. PD 11 also has a chance of discovering stealthy units.

[High_Priest_Naresh]

I use PD 10, I usually use either some one with cheap magic if their nation has very few magic paths maybe for like abysia maybe a dragon or pheonix,
I rely heavily on national troops(the ones you can only build at forts...)
they are about the only kind of army I use apart from if I find a really cool thing like trodgolites or woods men I usually use them.
with ulm I use quite a few sc a few lord guardians kitted out to the max give them a small army of black plate and their off!
I usually recruit 1 mage a turn, and if I'm not building another army I build some sacreds and give them to a priest
I usually take turmoil 1 magic 2-3 luck 1--1
fortesses or black keeps?
high prductivity or growth

[High_Priest_Naresh]

oh yeah I use alot and I mean alot! of archers!

[Endoperez]

Do you use much magic in combat? As an example, do your Ulmish master smiths use Earth Power, Blade Wind, Magma Bolts, Magma Eruption? Do youuse shortbows with Ulmish troops (they can't hurt Ulmish units through their armor)? Have you summoned Troll King's Court, Kings of Elemental Earth, Mechanical Men, Iron Dragons or Living Statues (last one fron Enliven statues)?

About scales: High order would give lots of gold, which might help you. Luck is fun, but you can't count on it, especially if you don't use Conceptual Scales mod.

Try different extremes. If you know them, you can try to use just enough of each of them to get most out of everything.
Try Oracle with Astral 5 and go for scales and castle. Try a no-magic Wyrm or Manticore, and remember that death costs nothing. Try Wyrm or Manticore with some magic for spells (pick one: fire shield; breat of winter and quickness; mistform and mirror image, iron skin and earth power (fatique removal); personal regeneration; luck, body ethereal, astral shield, astral weapon) and try to find out their limits. Try heavy-bless pretender for Jotunheim: W9 Son of Niefel or N9E4 Great Mother with fast-building castle (3 turns at max) and recruit lots of Jotun Jarls. Try summoning crazy hordes of Vine Ogres. Take high-Earth pretender and research enchantment just for Enlive Statues. Choose less Earth and go for Mechanical men/Iron Dragons. Try using uniques as combatants as early as possible.

[shovah]

try forge of the ancients and earth blood deep well with ulm if u can get them

[Molog]

Just take the ashen empire or soul gate theme with Ermor, dominion 9, turmoil sloth cold luck and magic at 3 with a lich queen with various magic paths and you should easily win against the AI.

[Morkilus]

I'm not sure why, but I love to play Ulm, and am having a blast in the current SP game I'm in. There's just something about having those Mictlan slaves pile up around my half-dozen crossbowmen and then get driven off... then ambushing the main army with the ever-effective Black Knight horde. Sometimes I can tell where the AI will attack based on the attractiveness of the province and how much PD or other armies are currently there. Then I just send one of my big armies to cut them off. (I might be imagining too much, let me know if I am) I suppose we are playing different styles since you heavily use magic and archers; I took the Drain route so I could play with the Black Steel armies. The screwy strategy I started with is working nicely; I have a 2-Astral, 7-Blood Blood Fountain, and quickly found those red Amazons that can use Blood magic. I found out soon that my high Order scales allowed me to hunt for slaves without affecting my Unrest too much, and I'm having fun unleashing various devils and fallen angels.

It's wise to stick with a strategy that sounds reasonable from the beginning, but make sure to take opportunities when they arrive. I know I got lucky finding that Amazon tribe, and the game would have gone differently if I hadn't. That's what's awesome about this game; you don't have to play it the same every time, and the game continually urges you to try new things depending on what you discover in the first dozen turns.

[shovah]

ulm+gift of reason+fully tooled up seige golem (or 5)nuff said. and i reallydo enjoy the forge of ancients with ulm and it also suits them( for mictain killing get something with high health and reasonable protection then give it a main gauche ( or summit or other 6def weapon ) a golden shield, a horror helmet,jade armour, winged shoes, ring of the warrior and lycan amulet( for non lifeless ) or something good for something like a golem.(or if you have the forge up try a few of anything tough ( even banelords work ) with the etheral robe thing/invunrability robe, winged shoes, horror helm, gate cleaver and miscs of your choice ( makes a gr8 SC hunter or if you can find something living give it a lycan amulet and watch it tear things up )

[NTJedi]

High_Priest_Naresh said:
I use PD 10, I usually use either some one with cheap magic if their nation has very few magic paths maybe for like abysia maybe a dragon or pheonix,



Try setting up your pretender with 3 or 4 magic paths which are level 4 or higher. This will give your blessed troops bonuses in battle and allow you to search for magic sites. Higher province defense helps discourage the AI from attacking.


High_Priest_Naresh said:
I rely heavily on national troops(the ones you can only build at forts...)



Now here's your main problem... troops bought from castles require a gold upkeep. Troops which are summoned from spells usually cost nothing... thus more gold allows for more mages which gives magic sites and more finished research which give more summoned troops. By turn 35/40 you should be leading all the AIs on research.


High_Priest_Naresh said:
they are about the only kind of army I use apart from if I find a really cool thing like trodgolites or woods men I usually use them.



If used right the trogolodytes can be great... just make sure the enemy archers aren't shooting at them during the start of battle. Woodsmen?? If you're talking about the archers which are available in provinces with druids these fellas are not that great. I recommend a 2/3 crossbow and 1/3 regular archer... longbowmen are good too. Also search for the archer types which cost the most resources... their armor(protection) will be better.


High_Priest_Naresh said:
I usually recruit 1 mage a turn, and if I'm not building another army I build some sacreds and give them to a priest
I usually take turmoil 1 magic 2-3 luck 1--1
fortesses or black keeps?
high prductivity or growth


Only in the very beginning do I use castle-type troops unless I have a good blessing bonus... even then it's not my main army source. Learn spells like Pale Riders(D), Enliven Statues(E), Mechanical Men(E), Vine Ogres(N), Bind Fiend(B), Bind Devil(B), Winter Wolves(W), and I'm sure I missed some. Unlike the troops you buy these troops will never flee and are built much stronger and tougher than almost any unit bought... plus pound for pound they're good for the gems spent.

[Wyatt Hebert]

Having played Ulm quite a bit, I have a few remarks to give you.

1) Jotunheim is a really bad matchup for you. High Cold adds to your fatigue problem, and they have the Strength to blow right through your armor, and you can't kill them nearly as fast.

2) My recommendation for troops is fairly simple. Go with the 10G 24R Morningstar troop (NOT the Black Plate guy). Produce 5 or so a turn, and a set of like 30 of these guys can typically eat through most provinces... 60 can chew through lots of stuff.

3) Watch out for any kind of magic issue. Your resistance is pathetic.

4) Master Smiths are immune to the Drain Scale, so get 120 extra points by maxing that out. I would recommend Order 1/2, Production 2/3, and Drain 3, at the very least. If you can get Order 2, Prod 3, you can pump out troops rather quickly.

5) Mercenaries are excellent for early expansion, and a few of them can be excellent even late game. Use them.

6) Use good summons, and keep looking for sites. For Ulm, I would recommend researching Thaumaturgy 2 immediately (to be able to use Gnome Lore), and then working on Conjuration or Enchantment (depending on your Pretender).

Those are my first thoughts on how to build a game that is stacked in your favor. I personally avoid ever taking Turmoil or Unlucky, and only like taking Death as Ermor. And, yes, I agree that Soul Gate Ermor will typically cream the computers barring early mistakes or problems.

Wyatt

[High_Priest_Naresh]

1.mercs. are good but you need the right ones
2.I do use summons! have you seen my thread tarraques?
3. I use mages quite alot and I do not play ulm that often usally its rley(something like this?) mictlan and tien ci
4.I know how to use these perfectly well but the comp. just smegs me!

[shovah]

if your playing as ryleh go for maelstrom and arcane nexus if playing witheasy research and lots of sites and when you have around 20 or so mages crank out priests.

with that maestrom running if your worried about getting crushed, summon loads of krakens/sea trolls or something like that.

if you like ryleh (which i do) then try playing as atlantisatlantis, their mages are very cheap for what they can do(try clamming with atlantis) and with maelstrom you can pump out troops like nobodys buisness (try getting the 3 water queens and then start kraken spamming, if i did my maths right with maelstrom and your main province you can really crank out underwater nastys(for atlantis i suggest a pretender with 6 water 5 nature and some earth and atleast 3 astral for dispel)

atlantis are really underestimated and with those big preiests spread around and focused in your capitol its hard to get dominion drained. and yes i do have an obsession with gem making globals(hugs gem making globals)

edited for reading purposes

[PDF]

shovah said:
if your playing as ryleh go for maelstrom and arcane nexus if playing witheasy research and lots of sites andhwne you have around 20 or so mages crank out priests. with that maestrom running if your worried about getting crushed summon **** loads of krakens/sea trolls or something like that and if you like ryleh (which i do) then try atlantis, their mages are very cheap for what they can do(try clamming with atlantis) and with maelstrom you can pump out troops like nobodys buisness (try getting the 3 water queens and then start kraken spamming, if i did my maths right with maelstrom and your main province you can really crank out underwater nastys(for atlantis i suggest a pretender with 6 water 5 nature and some earth and atleast 3 astral for dispel)atlantis are really underestimated and with those big preiests spread around and focused in your capitol its hard to get dominion drained. and yes i do have an obsession with gem making globals(hugs gem making globals)



Whooh, I'm totally out of breath after reading that ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[shovah]

probly my longest and most messy post yet (hugs self then stops and trows up, i feel sick 2day)

[High_Priest_Naresh]

thnaks I 'll read it if I have the time!
note:this is not ment to be rude it is just that tou ut alot of detail in such a short space!

[Wyatt Hebert]

Most mercs can be very useful if you know what to use them for... as an example, the 30gp Mutant merc group is perfect for Man... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Use them as the expendable meat shield to keep the enemies off of your Longbowmen and rip the guys to shreds...

Tarrasques are, by any normal thought process, a late-game summon. Better investments are the unbreakable wall of Vine Ogres (which you can start getting _very_ early if you have good Nature Magic) and the Elemental Kings/Queens.

Another strategy that is almost fool-proof, imo, is to play any country with good Nature gems and Nature mages and play a N9 or N10 Naga, get Haruspex, then blitz for Summon Lamia. The Naga will get something on the order of 10-12 Lamia per summoning, and they are very solid wall troops against most enemies. An army of 50 of those (4-5 turn investment) will kill most enemy armies up to twice their size (conservatively).

If I have time tonight, I'll spend more time on other strategies. Enjoy,

Wyatt

[shovah]

Wyatt Hebert said:
Most mercs can be very useful if you know what to use them for... as an example, the 30gp Mutant merc group is perfect for Man... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Use them as the expendable meat shield to keep the enemies off of your Longbowmen and rip the guys to shreds...

Tarrasques are, by any normal thought process, a late-game summon. Better investments are the unbreakable wall of Vine Ogres (which you can start getting _very_ early if you have good Nature Magic) and the Elemental Kings/Queens.

Another strategy that is almost fool-proof, imo, is to play any country with good Nature gems and Nature mages and play a N9 or N10 Naga, get Haruspex, then blitz for Summon Lamia. The Naga will get something on the order of 10-12 Lamia per summoning, and they are very solid wall troops against most enemies. An army of 50 of those (4-5 turn investment) will kill most enemy armies up to twice their size (conservatively).

If I have time tonight, I'll spend more time on other strategies. Enjoy,

Wyatt



that would work pretty good with a carrion woods pangea and then some little manakins could join in as well

[kruzader]

hi there
i bought the game a week ago and haven't won a sp game either.today i thought i would win, but got stomped by t'ien ch'i armies (i had marignon and my pretender was a blood fountain). their abominations blasted their way through my men. maybe some of you could tell me how to stop them ?

[shovah]

well you could try hordes of cheap things( cross breeding) or if you could summon some nature mages with charm thats how i deal with big beasties, could you tell me more about this game in a PM? dont wana make this too off topic

[Endoperez]

If you are against big things with low magic resistance, many of the Astral spells in Thaumaturgy should work. Paralyze slows them down, Soul Slay is heavyweight option and Enslave Mind would be awesome...

[High_Priest_Naresh]

endoperez! you a lieutenant colonel now!

[shovah]

inslave mind works just aswell but i just mentioned it because its my eater of the dead control team :p. i cant resist the big regenerating blob so a bunch of charmers + meatshields lets him keep his gift of reason

[Endoperez]

High_Priest_Naresh said:
endoperez! you a lieutenant colonel now!



Pity, I'd prefer King of Men's Fates, or even Lord of Fires of the Earth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[shovah]

Endoperez said:

High_Priest_Naresh said:
endoperez! you a lieutenant colonel now!



Pity, I'd prefer King of Men's Fates, or even Lord of Fires of the Earth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



if only..... if only.......... but with sp as has been said you REALLY have to make a good strategy before game ( if you like nature try vine ogre spammage with ivy kings and your favourites, tarrasqes

[shovah]

ok, the lamia strategy rocks, i just tried it woth a naga pretender with 10 nature and nothing else and won really fast. do a rich world with easy research and indy str 9 with carrion woods pangea ( 10 nature a turn )

then make mages and only mages, no troops and with those mages summon carrion lords and with all these rush for alteration 5 for mother oak.

then rush all your researchers for lamias (conjuration) and as soon as you can get them crank them out ( if your low on money then A:do alchemy or B:use carrion lords reanimate and send 1 out to conquer ) your 10 nature naga will get 13, yes 13! lamias a turn.

load the naga up full of lamias then rush for the enemy who in my game only had 4 provinces when i got their. when i had finished them off ( around 7 turns later ) i had fairy trod ready and teleported into my other enemy and crushed them.

all the while i was making more lamias and at the end of the game i was about to get tarrasques. overall if you wana crush enemys quick try this but money can be a problem and ofcourse you could research lamias b4 mother oak but thats just personal preference.

incase you were wondering i was playing on urgaia vrs machaka and mictain

[NTJedi]

High_Priest_Naresh said:
1.mercs. are good but you need the right ones



(70%)Most mercs are worth buying

High_Priest_Naresh said:
2.I do use summons! have you seen my thread tarraques?



Earlier you wrote : High_Priest_Naresh said:
I rely heavily on national troops(the ones you can only build at forts...)
Now if that's true then you're not using enough summons.


High_Priest_Naresh said:
3. I use mages quite alot and I do not play ulm that often usally its rley(something like this?) mictlan and tien ci



Focus less on buying national troops... buy the mercs and get those summons.


High_Priest_Naresh said:
4.I know how to use these perfectly well but the comp. just smegs me!


Try playing larger maps(250+ provinces) with fewer opponents... it will give you more time to build your defenses.

[High_Priest_Naresh]

okay thanks but at the moment I staying away from sp games mp games are good
"calling all players"

[magnate]

ok, the lamia strategy rocks, i just tried it woth a naga pretender with 10 nature and nothing else and won really fast. do a rich world with easy research and indy str 9 with carrion woods pangea ( 10 nature a turn )


Yeah right - and now try it with a poor or normal world and difficult or very difficult research .... there's not a lot of point playing SP if you're going to make it so easy.

[shovah]

1: im new
2: i suck

[shovah]

1: im new
2: i suck
3: i was only seeing if it works

[High_Priest_Naresh]

dont be so hard on your self! anyway your going to be on my team! no one laugh!

[Endoperez]

That general strategy might work. You just have to come up with a way to start conquering provinces before you get to Conjuration 7 and Lamias. I think Carrion Woods can conquer provinces even without a combat pretender, especially with high-level nature blessing. You took expensive magic, and received a good blessing, so you could as well use it! (before the population of your capital withers away and you cannot recruit any more living units)

You might also want to use more cheaper mages instead of fewer good ones for research, as magic scale gives more benefit to more mages. You should also search all your conquered provinces for nature sites, to get more gems and researchers.

[shovah]

Endoperez said:
That general strategy might work. You just have to come up with a way to start conquering provinces before you get to Conjuration 7 and Lamias. I think Carrion Woods can conquer provinces even without a combat pretender, especially with high-level nature blessing. You took expensive magic, and received a good blessing, so you could as well use it! (before the population of your capital withers away and you cannot recruit any more living units)

You might also want to use more cheaper mages instead of fewer good ones for research, as magic scale gives more benefit to more mages. You should also search all your conquered provinces for nature sites, to get more gems and researchers.



i did conquer a bit with my carrion elephants but most of my focus was on the lamias, and the good thing about the carrion lords is they are nature 3 and can help with lamias (thought they were conjuration 6 though)

[Endoperez]

Might well be. I haven't used them in a long time. I might have to try, though... That did sound like an interesting strategy.

[shovah]

5 gems for 13 creatures that have lifedrain+regen+come back as serpents when killed seems more than 'interesting' :p

[High_Priest_Naresh]

playing a game against the comp. I am pangea carrion woods
started in quite a good place built a fort or two in strateigic places (like choke points or river crossings)
and was getting about 30 nature and 20 death a turn when I started with my 50 researchers spread out over 3 provinces to cast hundreds of v/o and with the ivy crown I was getting about.... 70-85 vine ogres a turn gave them to that ettin manikin (or whatever) gave him
heart finder sword
whip of command
rod of the leper king
horned helmet
horror helm
boots of long strides
wolf pelt?
ring of regen
gave him 90 saggitarius/ mino taur manikins
30 vine ogres
and make him a prophet!

teamed him up with a carrion centaur
and gave him 15 of those wooden construct thingies
and a horde of mandragora+other undead
and sent them on a rampage
go to about the oak of all ages waited 1 turn so that build up a small defense there and replenish my lost troops
next turn?
ulm has built a castle in oak of all ages defended by about 100 black plate infantries 50 trolls 4 troll kings
30 mech. men and 5 golems! thats even before I saw how many other commanders there were there(harpy sout http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)
I was feeling bad in just one turn he had built a castle, and raised a huge defense and no one was close enough to help me reinforce my troops or position
well I won in the end lost 8 v/o 2 lumber constructs and 50 undead thingies most of his army ran away though! I killed about quater of his army then he pegged it!

then his army went on a killing spree and I was alwys one porvince behind them until...
they stopped for a turn to be continued!

[shovah]

gj, vine ogre spam is fun to try with kings (but crowns work aswell)

[PDF]

How many turns did all that take ? I suppose 60+.. Vs AI it looks like total overkill to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Wyatt Hebert]

The Naga/Lamia strategy is absolutely brutal, but it does have a _few_ problems... nothing insurmountable, though. The beautiful thing is that the Regeneration is a percentage, I believe, so Gift of Health is an absolute must for these... they regenerate all the damage they typically take every turn... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It's not my favorite strategy, but it's definitely one of those that is rather easy to win with. Any of the auto-generating unit themes (Ashen Empire, Soul Gate, and Carrion Woods) tend to be easy as well.

And don't forget, people, that Lamia Queens are, imo, one of the better conjurable researchers. And they get good paths, and if you are lucky it won't take much to put up Haunted Forest... that puts paid on Ulm at the very least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Wyatt

[High_Priest_Naresh]

33 turns... turn 35 now

[BigJMoney]

Here is my newbie story. I had only played one game until I read this thread. It was Caelum as my first Empire (suggestions? good/bad choice for newbs?) I got hammered into dust. Reading this thread, I decided to play on that downloadable "Talis" map. As a side note -- THAT MAP ROCKS FOR NEWBIES! Ehem. Okay, so I went with Machaka, because everyone is saying Carrion Forest is pretty easy, etc. Also, I kept all the game options default; no easy research or ANYTHING to handicap the AI. I set up one opponent, an EASY AI Mictlan. I probably could have made it one or two levels higher, though. I used this Lamia Queen/Lamia strategy and I crushed them. They didn't even have a chance.

I was using a level 10 Nature only Dragon (50pts, woot!), so I could use my pretender to help in an emergency. I also took adv of his holy blessings, and started a 10 dark hunter army with my prophet. This was my main attack force for most of the game. At the end of the game (and only then!) did I build two forts near my enemy's front door and start pumping out troops to absorb casualties so my Lamias and Blessed Hunter Spiders could get their job done. Mainly armies made of light inf
(I think), but also Spider knights for a little more staying power.

From day 1 I was hiring Sorceresses for research purposes. I also had a Magic 3 dominion to help with this. Later in the game, this map had some sages I made use of, but I don't think it did anything because I had all my Lamias and Gift of Health already going. I did very, very little army recruiting in the beginning game, other than my holy regenerating, berserking spiders! I think I sent my starting troops to go with them, and maybe buffed them a tad. I know many of them ended up being 2 star grunts at some point in the game. I used no heroes effectively. I tried to; I even equipped them, but their attack AI along with soldiers was really crappy.

Naresh, the real trick for me was definitely playing on Talis. If it weren't such a boring strategy, I'd do it again against a HARD AI and see if I can do it. I think I'm going to diss Machaka for a while, though. I don't really like them :-P. From what I hear about Carrion Woods, I'd like Pangea even less. My next several games will probably be astonishing losses, but hey. Anyway, if you ever want someone to MP, I'd love to. Maybe even a co-op scenario! That would be cool.

=$= Big J Money =$=

[High_Priest_Naresh]

bigjmoney try the thread calling all players were missing a player

[Endoperez]

Congratulations about the victory, and some points:

10 Nature Dragon isn't as good at summoning Lamias as 9 Nature (green) Naga. That one gets a Lamia summoning bonus, can use more items in battle and still has pretty good stats. The 10th pick of magic costs a lot, so Nature 9 would probably been enough. You would have gotten 1 lamia less pre summoning, and you units would have only lost the last point of berserk from their blessing.
Machaka Hoplites are very good infantry, and Machaka Archers are very cheap. You can make lots and lots of them, and your Black Sorcerors can cast Flaming Arrows... You researched Enchantment any way for Gift of Health, and it would have only taken some extra gems, or casting Phoenix Power first, or lucky Black Sorcerer with his random in Fire, or research in construction and Flaming Skull (1Fire 1Death miscellanous item, boosts Fire by 1) to be able to cast it in all major battles.

[sushiboat]

BigJMoney said:
Reading this thread, I decided to play on that downloadable "Talis" map. As a side note -- THAT MAP ROCKS FOR NEWBIES!


I always use Talis when I play a new land nation or try out a Pretender very different from ones I have played before. I often don't finish the game. I play long enough to see where I have made major mistakes and then start over. (See Ten Turn Challenge! (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB74&amp;Number=321712&amp;fpart= &amp;PHPSESSID=) for ideas about playing a strong early game.) When I have mastered a particular setup on Talis, I move on to Aran with three opponents -- which is fewer than recommended, but it works well in terms of how much time you have to develop before your first war. Also, Inland is a great wraparound map that is smaller than Orania. The problem with big maps for playtesting is that you can play a lot of bad turns before getting feedback.

[High_Priest_Naresh]

I like!!!

[PDF]

High_Priest_Naresh said:
33 turns... turn 35 now



I'm puzzled...You say you were playing against the comp, and on turn 33-35 "Ulm has built a castle in oak of all ages defended by about 100 black plate infantries 50 trolls 4 troll kings 30 mech. men and 5 golems!"
That's just not possible any AI did that in 35 turns... /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

[shovah]

thought comp didnt like castles

[Arralen]

@shovah
Actually, the AI loves castles and tries everything to conquer one as soon as it is spotted.
Saldy, the AI can't build castles, not in one and not in 10 turns!
But it is quite good in finding earth sites which give one for free - especially Ulm.
And oc. there are always those random events ...

@PDF
With high sites and richness setting, the AI has little problem building such an army... with a high (random) astral 'draw' on the pretender it's even quite possible it build those golems early

[BigJMoney]

...and you units would have only lost the last point of berserk from their blessing.



I don't want to get too far off subject here, but what do the bonuses for berserk represent? I thought it was an absolute benefit -- they simply don't ever rout.

=$=

[quantum_mechani]

BigJMoney said:

...and you units would have only lost the last point of berserk from their blessing.



I don't want to get too far off subject here, but what do the bonuses for berserk represent? I thought it was an absolute benefit -- they simply don't ever rout.

=$=

Each level of berzerk gives +1 attack, +1 strength, +1 protection and -1 defense when berzerking.

[shovah]

my naga gives my white centaurs +6 berserk in my current sp game :p

[High_Priest_Naresh]

it is possible I have seen it and if I wasnt past it at the time I would of got a screen shot

[Morkilus]

I just won my first SP game, but it took a long time, from the comparisons I get to other big MP's... turn 90. I did spend plenty of time screwing around, and often forgot to set thing correctly just because I "had to see the next battle right away"... you know. Unfortunately the AI started to beat itself up towards the end, mainly by sending pathetic forces headlong into my 21+ PD. (I was playing Ulm). I had a terrible time assaulting Man's castle because of the mages who spammed me with dragonflies; but then it attacked into my beseiging forces and I could get my knights back around to knock out the mage. An army of flying amazons and their devil cohorts really helped me out in the end to clean up after the AI started a rampage; reminds me of the Eastern Front tactics in WW2: let them in, and cut them off. Every subsequent attack by the AI cost them due to those blacksteel-clad crossbowmen. I have a feeling such a tactic won't work in MP...

[Valandil]

Longest game I have ever played was 357 turns (Faerun). The AI is unable to counter many MP strategies. Even fairly weak SCs (banelords and suchlike) can cause severe problems for the computer. Or you could play Ermor.

[Frostmourne27]

I find that against the AI I will either utterly dominate or fail miserably. As Ulm I don't actually think it's really nesescary to use a large number of summons. If you can get conjuration 7 there are a large number of options available to you. Riches from beneath is excellent for ulm, particularily with a number of fortresses, earth blood deep well and enliven statues. One of my number one goals when playing ulm is to find a province that can recruit sages. Although master smiths are not bad researchers sages are undoubtebly better and help ulm's reletivly poor research get ahead (or at least to break even).

[isodea]

Just had my first SP win as Ulm. 1 on 1 vs. C'tis.

I had a province that could recruit wizards which helped big time. I built up five powerful armies, about 70 troops each, and started an all out war. The very next turn my pretender was killed by a horror! I don't even know why! Needless to say I was shocked. I had planned a good portion of my strategy around my pretender kicking some hiney, so that threw a considerable wrench in the proceedings. The next 6-7 turns was chaos but the strong design of my armies payed off as C'tis's forces were brought down one by one.
The AI pretender (scorpion king) routed two armies before he finally died in a satisfying puff of red blood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
The best battle of the whole game was my "kinda SC" spy teleporting around and spawning undead with his skull talisman, horror helm, teleport shoes (forgot the name), cloak of shadows, and lucky blade. He routed an army of 30 something lower quality troops and a shaman.

All in all it was fun but didn't really feel like a great win. My attack was fairly haphazard and weak now that I think about it. Also the use of province defence is a huge advantage to the human player. The AI doesen't seem to understand it.

Any suggestions for a race to try next?

[Endoperez]

Sorry for writing a post this long!

What kind of armies did you build? Did you just recruit slow, lumbering Heavy Infantry of Ulm? Or did you accompany them with e.g. Archers? Archers, cheapest indies only costing 3 resources, can be produced in large quantities. They also probably won't hurt your Ulmish troops, unlike your own Arbalests!

Did you use Black Knights? How many? They can be very powerful troops, but they are also expensive. Using few of them can help your armies, using too many drains out your money.

How did you use your Master Smiths? Did you use Earth Power from Conjuration path? Did you make Earth Boots from Construction? What about Dwarven Hammers?
Did you use Evocations? Magma Bolts, Blade Wind or Magma Eruption?

Besides questions, here are few answers:
The horror that attacked was either due to a spell (Send Lesser Horror, Send Horror) or from combination of Horror Mark. Magical province, Misfortune or otherwise bad luck.

As Ulm, using your national units, there is a simple path that works very well: Production 3, Drain 3. A good castle is also a must. Master Smiths are immune to the research-lowering effect of Drain! For the other scales, you could go for lots and lots of money (Order, some Growth), or gamble for fortune (Luck, Growth for money, Order weakens Luck).
While Ulm benefits from rainbow pretender, too much is too much. On the other hand, some combinations are invaluable to Ulm. Also, some Rainbow pretender can be used offensively even early in the game. Quickness, Eagle Eyes and almost any early Evocation can be deadly, and Quickness/Mind Burn is also very good.
Cyclops with enough Earth for Forge of the Ancients can help Ulm immensely. It also works well with Enliven Statues, high in Thaumaturgy.

As you are learning the game, I'd suggest that you return to Ulm. But trying a different nation first, so that you can see the power of some other strategy, can have a huge impact on how you play without them. You might want to try archers/crossbows strategy: Man has Longbowmen and the mages can cast Wind Guide, Marignon has Crossbowmen and the mages can cast Flaming Arrows, Machaka has very cheap Archers and can also aquire Flaming Arrows. Machaka also has Death, so they could benefit more from Enchantment.
All three have cheap mages that can research very fast with some Magic. You don't need as many resources in these strategies, so don't take Production. You could even go for Sloth if you think you cna manage without heavy-armored frontline for the archers. Also, for pretender, take something different. If you had a cheap pretender, like Wyrm /Manticore with little/no magic, take something expensive. If you had a rainbow, go for single path mastery. Else, go for a rainbow. And you might try cheap Wyrm if you want to try having lots of good scales and a good fort.
Expensive single-path mages, for blessings as well:
Marignon, Man: Fire 9 Moloch. Machaka's spider would benefit too, but they already have lots of fire and I usually don't go for flaming spider fangs.
Machaka: Nature 9. Now the Spiders are really bad boys. And they Berserk, so they won't run away.
Cheap, single-path, for a weak blessing and possibly spesific spell or item:
Man: Air 6 - if you use Wardens, they are protected from missiles. Your Mages also benefit.
Man/Marignon: Earth 4/6 - Reinvigoration and sacred mages is a good combination.
Man/Machaka: Oracle with Astral 4-5 - blessing isn't great, but Astral has lots of interesting spells. In addition, if you can afford Earth as well, you get interesting items and boosters with Earth/Astral combination.
Machaka: Death 4-5 - blessing isn't very useful, but your mages already have some Death, and some spells can be cast more often (Raise Dead) in battle, others benefit from higher path (Undead Horsemen), and this really makes Enchantment useful for you.

Try using mages in fights. Machaka has EF casters, they can do Magma Bolts. The other mages also have their uses, but you might be overwhelmed with the many directions available to you. As Machaka also has well-armored Hoplites, it is quite similar to Ulm in many accounts, you probably feel most familiar with it. PD is very weak, though, so you have to find other ways of defending your empire.
Marignon starts with Holy Pyre, so you can use your mages or pretender in even the first battles. The troops have good weapons, but ony Man-at-arms have shields - and with you crossbows, this means they won't survive as well as your Ulmians. You can also go for for either Evocation or Thaumaturgy - Fire has pure damage, Astral goes through armor but is blocked by magic resistance. Don't forget Conjuration and Phoenix Power, nor Alteration! Phoenix Pyre can be fun, Incinerate is deadly, and you get Body Ethereal. PD is Crossbows, and very similar to Ulm, and also has priests in the case your enemy brings undead.
Man has Longbowmen, which are very good. The melee units aren't very good, but at least they have shields. You also have limited Stealth capability - Monks are stealth preachers, Mothers can sneak, Wardens and Lord Wardens are stealthy... If you happen to find a Druid province, or even a Brigand's Lair, add stealthy archers. This works better with offensive blessing, of course. Man also has weak PD. Nature is quite supportive path, but Air has some powerful Evocations. You can go for many directions: Vine Men/Ogres (Mothers+Thistle Mace+Vine Crown is expensive to set up, but pays back), Call of the Wild, supply items, Firbolgs, regeneration...

[isodea]

Wow! Thanks for all the advice Endoperez.
To answer your Q's...

I had drain 3, order 2, and 7 dominion since it said their priests are weak, which they are. My preists were preaching to a deaf audiance. The evil reptillians of C'tis dominated the dominion side of things. /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif Now that I think about it I also totally forgot to make a prophet! Definatly need to work on dominion heheh.

In each of my armies I had mainly archers and heavy inf. supported by 10-15 black knights, a wizard and a master smith. Black Knights are some bad dudes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Two of my armies had an elite group of knights that collected experiance on loads of indies. C'tis was mowed down by them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Infact only those 2 armies survived with any considerable numbers left at the end. Would have been a lot easier if my pretender's death wasen't so ill-timed. He (master druid) commanded an army of vine ogres and crushers and supported a golem. The golem still went on to cause some damage but in the chaos of war I forgot to get him another wizard for support and he died. Some wasted potential there. I'll probably make more golems next time. They seemed powerful if used right.

I also tried to recruit every merc that had a big army. Often I didn't have the money to support them for long so I would send them on suicide missions just so C'tis coulden't use them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif One of the mercs was a really cool priest that banished tons of C'tis undead. He was a big help and contributed to the win for sure.

At first I had master smiths research and look for magic sites. Then when I found the wizards I switched them to item making, lab building, and a few supported armies. I made a few dwarven hammers, tons of lanterns, armor/trinkets for my main commanders and spys. Didn't think about buffing their earth skill, should have done that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I really can't remember all the spells I had. There are tons of them. I know I had a few buffs and some summoning spells that helped. Don't think I had much offense spells. My prentender had battle fortune which was nice but I only got to use it once before the horror took him.

[shovah]

if by golems you mean regular golems they are s1 commanders and therefor self supporting, dominion 7 is wasted for ulm since you priests can only bring it up to their low priest lvl so... im guessing the priestly mercenary was the inquisitorial one? did you pretender get horror marked by an iten you gave him or something? and just for the record unless the commander is a very valuable mage or such its not really worth giving them trinketsand such (unless its a bow of war/spell casting itme or some such)

[isodea]

Yes the golem was a commander, by support I mean someone to heal him and weaken the enemies, cast enchantments etc. so he is more effective.
I wasen't sure about dominion. I thought higher would make it spread faster or something.
Yes I had the inquisitor. He died before the end but was really helpful.

Don't have any idea what happened to my pretender! Don't know what sort of item would curse him but if it says it does so in the description I don't think I made any.

I gave my commanders skull talismans and horror helms mostly. Probably gave them some useless weapons since only a few of them actually fought directly.

[Agrajag]

IIRC, higher starting dominion increases the chance for each temple-check to succeed, so a high dominion is useful for those without priests.
You need to remember, though, that dominion has to "fill up" before it can spread further, so a higher dominion score also means it will take your dominion longer to spread further.

Atleast, that's what I remember from all the previous "how does dominion work?" threads...

[Endoperez]

On the other hand, Ulm usually has enough money to build a couple of temples. AFAIK, each temple would spread the high dominion, even if it would first have to fill up the province it starts from. Also, every temple stops enemy dominion from going further, even if the temple province's dominion can be lowered.
There is a great document explaining dominion in great detail. I think it's on www.dominions-2.org (http://www.dominions-2.org), but I don't remember even its name ATM.

I think you did quite well in the army department, and did use your mages quite well. The fact that you used a support mage with a Golem was also very good. Just learn to use and look out for your dominion a bit more. It also helps if you know what priests can do for you, and knew little more of the Evocation spells, but that will come with different experiences. You're doing very well IMO, especially for a first win.

[Saber Cherry]

isodea said:
Don't have any idea what happened to my pretender! Don't know what sort of item would curse him but if it says it does so in the description I don't think I made any.



Well, unfortunately, they often don't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Lifelong Protection and Soul Contract give horror marks, and some armors and artifacts do as well. I suggest you download Zen's Magic Item Quick Reference guide (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/d2/6.htm) as it lists some of the unmentioned side effects... of course, it also spoils some of the fun, so don't read things you don't need to read http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

A unit with horror marks eventually gets attacked by a horror, which is usually fatal, unless you gear it specifically to fight horrors (they have high defense, are ethereal, and ignore protection - lucky coin + fire sword are a good cheap combo that will often keep soul-contracted Jotuns safe from horrors). Horror marks can also be a result of magic sites and random events (IIRC) and hostile battle spells, though. Never put horror-marking items on your god, even if (s)he is very powerful; it's just not worthwhile.

[isodea]

Endoperez said:
There is a great document explaining dominion in great detail. I think it's on www.dominions-2.org (http://www.dominions-2.org), but I don't remember even its name ATM.



Thanks. Useful guide. Have a much better picture of how dominion works now.

Going to start the next game soon.
(plz no horrors, plz no horrors) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[isodea]

Game #2: Arcocephale vs. Mictlan at Siltrock (great map!)

I was going to go with Machaka but I decided what the heck and picked Arco. The combination of astral and nature looked fun. Picked Titan for pretender. Spent a lot on magic but specialized in only 3 schools. 5 dominion, don't remember the scales but I think I had magic 1. Decided I was going to get tons of spells and try some global enchants etc.

After getting used to arco's units and making some armies I put up gift of health which was neat. Killed the dragon at Siltrock which was a lot of fun. Once I took his province and could train Trogs, Mictlan was in a world of hurt along with all the remaining indies.

I don't know if it's just that Mictlan AI is weak or I dominated that much, but they hardly did anything the whole time except build armies. I made it a priority to take as much land as I could ASAP. Maybe that cuased them to turtle as they only took 5 indie provinces then entire game.

The only thing Mictlan ever did that cost me was casting over my enchantment Eyes of God or whatever (for seeing all the provinces)

I made it a point this time to have a prophet ASAP. Trained atleast 5 priests and built 4 temples. Did much better with dominion this time. Even though Mictlan didn't do much I think it would have been good enough to hold my own against a more aggressive dominion.

Went crazy with research. By the time it was over I had atleast lvl 5 in everything except blood. Built 3 big armies, loaded them with support mages &amp; went right at Mictlan. The whole show was over in about 5 turns from there. There was 7 battles, 6 of which I won. The battle I lost was a stupid mission to see if my golem could kill their prophet who was lightly guarded on an island. The golem didn't quite live up to what I thought based on the items I gave him. He lasted a looong but didn't deal near as much damage as I thought. All the other battles were very easy. Think I only lost 20 something troops all told. I usually set up battle fortune+weapons of sharpness and then launched into attack magic.

Trogs are some bad dudes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif Spirit Helmet is nice too. Game was over at turn 49.http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6337/arcbt17jx.jpg
I hope the next game is much harder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (and no horrors killed anyone this time lol)

[shovah]

congrats dude (that fight looks a little bit one sided though :p

[isodea]

yes, it was just a tad one sided http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[shovah]

ever tried a golem with hammer of the mountain and a few attack boosters under cb 5.2? with astral weapons he does like 120 AN damage (ultimate sc killer if hes loaded with attack boosters)

[Endoperez]

shovah said:
ever tried a golem with hammer of the mountain and a few attack boosters under cb 5.2? with astral weapons he does like 120 AN damage (ultimate sc killer if hes loaded with attack boosters)



You really like overkill, don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[shovah]

how did you guess? but against some bigger scs its needed (or else they would flatten him)

[Emelio Lizardo]

Oh but I disagree, horror marking your god or prophet can be fun, and gives you something to do once you've stomped the AI and are experimenting. I'm trying to capture Ashen Angels and horrors. Problem is my arch angel and his guards kill them too quickly to to capture. I horror marked my PG (all 12+, natural, no wishes) because my cyclops looked so cool in the robe of the magi. I'm trying to find the right spell setup to capture the buggers. Wow, to have an army of AAs and Horrors! Unfortunately I've reduced my remaining AI opponent to the stoneage so I'll have to build him up so I can have fun with him again.

[Wish]

you can't capture them

I've tried, they disappear after combat, even if you hellbind heart them. Might work with enslave mind, (be sure to have lots of penetration gear)

You can wish for them, however. even wished for horrors have something like a 10% chance of dissapearing after combat, from my experience.

[shovah]

wishing for a doom horror is fun (or king of the world if you dont like bad events) as is wishing for combat pretenders.

[Endoperez]

Fallen Angels are somewhat similar to the Ashen ones... and there's always R'lyeh and the Void Gate. Vastness is another nastty bugger.

EDIT: Replaced Voidness with Vastness. Thanks for pointing it out, shovah!

[shovah]

by voidness do you mean vastness? if so yes he rocks (especially with gift of reason cause then he has 2 misc slots)

[Wish]

a vastness is quite nearly a doom horror, but without the barbarian invasions

[Emelio Lizardo]

Bad Events?

[Endoperez]

Doom Horrors live up to their name... Whereever one is, bad events can occur. They do it on their own, regardless of your fortune/misfortune setting.

[shovah]

just dont summon them near a big cursable army

[Graeme Dice]

shovah said:
just dont summon them near a big cursable army



A big army is fine, since it only curses a few of your troops. A small army would be more problematic, but if you can manufacture doom horrors, then you can also get fairy queens or the chalice, and your SCs will end up cursed anyways.

[shovah]

too bad curse isnt curable (or is it)

[Endoperez]

Nope, and that's what the developers intended. You might be close to being a god, immortal, able to Wish the world to be what you'd like... but the Curse stays, and the Horror Mark stays. With power, comes the price... And if you ever touched the Forbidden Light, They'll remember.

Or, in ther words, some items bestow stronger Horror Mark than what the spell does.

[shovah]

yea, didnt think either was curable

[Emelio Lizardo]

What's the point of being a god if you can't find a way to change everything? It doesn't have to be easy, but.....

[Wick]

Curing it is no problem. Just ascend and it goes away. ;-)

[shovah]

exactly, your not a god unless you win. until then you are just a wana be god