Javelin ATGM

[kevineduguay1]

Some Nations may be lacking this weapon in their OOB's.

Also the site that I have posted gives the Range as 2500 meters, not 2000 meters as is now in the game.

See, http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/

The site mentions some of the other Nations that should have this weapons system.

[Stirling]

Thanks for the info.

[kevineduguay1]

Here is some really good stuff on the Javelin!

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles2002/20021220.asp
Click on the links at the bottom (they both go to the same place) to see picks of this weapon fired against a fully loaded T-72. It's shocking! Also you will notice that the stated range to the target is 4000 meters.

This one is right from the horses mouth!

http://www.raytheon.com/products/javelin/
Click on the PDF formats to get the stats for this weapon.

[Weeble]

Collecting weapons manufacturer's promotional materials is useful for "what-if?" scenarios, (and the occasional expense-account lunch). Whilst I indulge in both of these, reality has to intrude on 'hype'.

I agree with the 'theoretical' range for Javelin, but the actual operational range is given as 2000m in the document linked below:

[FM 3-22.37]

(Intended to instruct the 'PBI' on how to use the Javelin!)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-37/index.html

[DRG]

Yep..

-----------------------------------------------------
Maximum effective engagement range
(Direct Attack and Top Attack modes) 2,000 meters
-----------------------------------------------------

Don

[kevineduguay1]

The range limitations seem to be more of a limitation of having a direct line of sight and safety considerations. The seeker on the missile seems not to be able to distinguish between targets at ranges over 2000 meters. This could lead to friendly fire incidents.

However, if you read the safety section of the manual(Scroll down to drawing, then read section d. titled AREA A) you will find mention of the true maximum range of 4000 meters.

The test shot on the site I provided was made at 4000 meters.

On the other end of the debate I would also add that seeing we are training our troops to fire the Javelin only out to 2000 meters then I guess that this will have to be the range in the game.

[kevineduguay1]

This site has the movie and some additional photos of the same test.

http://www.esdjournal.com/archives/articles/2002_and_before/javelin/javelin.htm

Enjoy!

[Weeble]

I knew that video was familiar!

See discussion of "staged" test at:

http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=12297&hl=javelin

There is a flash between the wheels as the explosives stuffed into the tank start detonating just before the missile hits.

The Javelin is good, but not that good! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PlasmaKrab]

About the range, maybe someone has better info on that, but I'm wondering if the diffenrece between the "2000m operational range" and "2500m manufacturer advertising range" doesn't account for the top-attack routine?
I mean, I've been looking at the FM you quote, Weeble, and the stress in clearly on top-attack armor engagement, and it is pretty certain that the high trajectory and furthermore the sharp dive into attack use lots of fuel and reduce the speed drastically. IMO that would account for the range reduction, apart from the fact that the guys firing it are certainly instructed to fire under the max range because of the weird trajectory a missile can have with two drops of fuel left.
And since this very missile is F&F, there is no one to correct its flight path manually, let alone direct the attack dive.

[Sewter]

Yes, I have seen that flash. It is suspicious. As is the lack of delay in the sound of the glorious explosion. And the steady-cam on the video. Perhaps it is the Commemorative Air Force? They have a Explosive Ordnance Detachment who create mighty explosions.

Look at this web-site for the CAF/EOD:

http://www.caf-eod.org/index.php

[kevineduguay1]

Here is a flash too. This was a Predator Light ATGM (US) fired at a target M-48 or M60. Notice flash under vehicle.

This also is a top attack ATGM. Most of these type of missiles upon striking the top turret or hull also pen the lower hull creating the little flash you see between the bogies on the T-72 in the Javelin test.

Pic included.

[Backis]

Having top-attack weapons penetrate right through the target and exiting the bottom plate is not strange or suspicious, especially against older types of AFV's (including T-72 of various marks).

Films on Saab Bofors Dynamics homepage show both rbs56 and STRIX penetrating the bottom plate of tanks for those who wants to see.

[kevineduguay1]

Thank you Backis for your input!

Did anyone notice that most sources state the pen of the Javelin as 600mm and not the 450mm that is now in the game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif