WINSPWW2?

[Cameronius]

Any idea when WINSPww2 will be released? (Even a ballpark ETA would be good). Looking forward to brewing up some T-34s with my company of Tigers.

[MarkSheppard]

It'll be released when it's finished http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Original release schedule they gave us at the beginning of
the year was for WinWW2 to be released around Novemberish,
but that was before the Mega v 2.0 patch for WinMBT; so
I would guess that we won't see WinWW2 anytime before the
winter of 2006.

[RecruitMonty]

Oh well looks like we will have to wate

[Warhero]

"Soon" as always;)?

[Sewter]

Regrettably, the Tiger tank killed your Canadian and English (and my American and Polish)ancestors. The wonderous Firefly may bring the satistfaction you seek, in pillaging the lands from the butchers of your past armies. But, if you would like to learn more of the strong Tiger tank, this website has much to offer:

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers.htm



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Mobhack]

MarkSheppard said:
It'll be released when it's finished http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Original release schedule they gave us at the beginning of
the year was for WinWW2 to be released around Novemberish,
but that was before the Mega v 2.0 patch for WinMBT; so
I would guess that we won't see WinWW2 anytime before the
winter of 2006.



Work on WW2 will start AFTER the fix patch for MBT, as I intend to use the MBT code as a common starting base.

Most likely, it'l take 3-4 months to get done once it actually starts.

Me wants WinSPWW2 as well - the tank and other stuff development there is much more interesting than post-war (hanging on for the grants, while making do with valentines and cruisers, if the UK in the desert for example, then waiting for 6pdr ATG tanks, I do rather like the 6pdr churchills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif! )

Cheers
Andy

[blazejos]

I have a suggestion. That would be nice if SPCAMO starts WinSPWW2 forum before game relase just after game works starts.

[Double_Deuce]

Mobhack said:
Work on WW2 will start AFTER the fix patch for MBT, as I intend to use the MBT code as a common starting base.

With WinSPMBT as the common base does that mean that maps will be interchangable between the 2 games? I hope so.

I have a large project in mind and would rather not wait until WinSPWW2 actually comes out to get started on it. I have at least 47 maps that will need to be made with each of them needing a corresponding mirror image (maybe 3 mirror images for each for the 4 cardinal directions) so they can be rotated around and butted together like individual boardgame mapboards (like ASL mapboards). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DRG]

Double_Deuce said:
With WinSPMBT as the common base does that mean that maps will be interchangable between the 2 games? I hope so.




The maps will be fully interchangeable between the two games. That was always a priority

Don

[Warhero]

Btw, be sure that British vs Italy 1943 (June and forward) battle locations (maps) will be in right terrain (not always in desert as in SPWAW seems to be)... It's bit strange that Matrix never fixed that.

[DRG]

Don't worry. They don't give you desert.

Don

[gibsonm]

Sorry, I'm a newbie here so I hope you don't mind what may appear to be a daft question.

I've been a long term fan of the SP series and have finally convinced the boss at home to buy a PC to run WinSPMBT on (We use Macs for everything else). I also have a copy of "Steel Panthers World at War" (hopefully its allowed to be mentioned) from another firm.

Is this WinSPWW2 the result of some sort of take over or is it a totally independent product (but still based on the common SP ancestry)?

Regards,

Mark

[narwan]

WinSPMBT is the windows version of the DOS SPMBT game which in turn is based on the DOS SPWW2 game. If I'm not mistaken both derive their ancestry from the SP2 game while the WaW series are derived from the SP3 game.
The groups who have been developing the different sets of games (SP2 based or SP3 based) have different views on some elements of the game. The end result is that it allows for a wide selection of SP games to choose from.

Narwan

[gibsonm]

Narwan,

Thanks.

So would it be fair to say that WinSPWW2 is effectively SP1 (since SP2 is not WW2 orientated) "upgraded" to the same standard (i.e. Win compatible).

Whilst "Steel Panthers World at War" is effectively SP3 "upgraded" to the Win compatible standard?

Just trying to work out if the upcoming WinSPWW2 will effectively replace my current copy of "Steel Panthers World at War" or whether I should retain both.

[Cameronius]

You should retain both and play both and decide for yourself which you like most.

[junk2drive]

gibsonm
Welcome to the dark side, hehehe. Do your Mac friends know?
Can you now buy all the new games that are PC only?
I have played SP1, SPWW2, SPMBT, SPWAW and now WSPMBT.
Enjoy them all. Vs AI or vs a human they all have pluses and minuses. Don't use CM tactics in SP and vice versa.

[gibsonm]

I have a swag of PC games already (used to use Virtual PC) such as Panzer Commander, Panzer Elite, SP1, 2 and 3, ATF, BCT, M1 Tank Platoon 2, Steel Beasts, Star and the Crescent as well as WinSPMBT and the SPWAW.

Virtual PC was too slow and the non support of graphics cards meant newer games would just crash.

Anyway the XP box just sits in the corner and only has games on it. Doesn't get email so it should stay relatively virus / malware free.

Also I can put CMSF on it and get a heads up while waiting for the Mac version to turn up.

[blazejos]

After relase of path for WinSPMBT what are the plans in WinSPWW2 thema my sugestion is runing the forum for this nonexisting game now before game relase here on sharpnel if this is posible that should help in the collect of materials and infos for this game. What do you thinking about this proposition

[Cameronius]

blazejos said:
After relase of path for WinSPMBT what are the plans in WinSPWW2 thema my sugestion is runing the forum for this nonexisting game now before game relase here on sharpnel if this is posible that should help in the collect of materials and infos for this game. What do you thinking about this proposition



Great idea! However it will probably increase the amount of time to get it finished.

[Marek_Tucan]

Here is my proposal for WinSPWW2...

Would it be possible to add another country? Then I'd like to see Slovakia as independent, 03/1939 to 04/1945, so that I won't have to stuff it in the Blue OOB.
Slovakia participated in some furious battles in hte East, not mentioning the uprising in 1944, and int he same time Czechoslovakian exile troops were active in the UK and USSR. The way it was in SPWW2, there was 03/1939 to IIRC 10/1943 Slovakia and just after that the OOB represented exile forces, and even then only in the USSR.

[DRG]

Marek_Tucan said:
Here is my proposal for WinSPWW2...

Would it be possible to add another country? Then I'd like to see Slovakia as independent, 03/1939 to 04/1945, so that I won't have to stuff it in the Blue OOB.
Slovakia participated in some furious battles in hte East, not mentioning the uprising in 1944, and int he same time Czechoslovakian exile troops were active in the UK and USSR. The way it was in SPWW2, there was 03/1939 to IIRC 10/1943 Slovakia and just after that the OOB represented exile forces, and even then only in the USSR.



I'll give this some thought. We have already added three "new" nations by splitting them from the main OOB. WinSPWW2 will have Chinese Communists as we as Nationalist China. France will become "Free France" in July 1940 and a new "Vichy France" OOB will appear at the same time. As well, Mussolinis RSI will appear in October 1943 and last until the end of April 1945 so yes, a 04/1939 to 10/1943 Slovakia fits in there as well .

Don

[JaM]

Nice! It will allow as to make 1944 SNP uprising with all ssides involved. thanks

[Beeg]

Sounds great so far. I'm hoping we'll have some more of the same WinSPMBT eye candy like grounded planes, etc. RR trains would be nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I know it's been discussed, but I'd like to see walls added. Hedgerows perform the same function but walls would add a lot of realism to WW2 type scenarios.

Thanks guys,

Beeg

[narwan]

Separate vichy french? Now that I like. A lot. Like really really a lot. Thanks!

Narwan

[DRG]

JaM said:
Nice! It will allow as to make 1944 SNP uprising with all ssides involved. thanks




One little problem. The info I have was by the end of 1943 there really weren't any Slovakian field troops. The units had been decimated and reduced to construction formations. That is why the "SL" formations in the current SPww2 "Czech" OOB only exist until 10/43. Now.. if I let the Slovak Republic OOB run from 4/39 - 10/43 you would still be able to build scenarios using troops that use those ID tags in 1944 simply by changing the dates back prior to 10/43, buying them as allied then changing the dates forward again. The ( little ) I know about the Slovak Republic in WW2 was that the Germans had taken over by the time of the 1944 uprising so you would have German troops, Partisans from the Czech OOB and if need by some units using Slovak ID tags if need be using the technique I mentioned.

Don

[DRG]

narwan said:
Separate vichy french? Now that I like. A lot. Like really really a lot. Thanks!

Narwan



It made more sense to create an axis Vichy France that would disapear than set up the French OOB as "1940" France then Vichy France then post war france and have a sparate "free" French". This way WinSPww2 will have the "allied" French in one oob and the axis in another. In July 1940 the flag for France will automatically change to include the Cross of Lorraine then after 1944 change back to the standard flag. "Vichy France" will be represented with the standard French flag during it's existance but of course, the Free French will be tagged with the COL version so there won't be any confusion

Don

[JaM]

Original plan for 1944SNP uprising counted with Slovak Infantry division from eastern parts of Slovakia (Kosice,Presov) but those soldiers were disbanded with goverment as they find out that there is something suspicious. Whole uprising was as classical fight rather than guerilla fights.They had even small number of LT-38 tanks and small number of Marders.After the german SS troops occupied Banska Bystrica, many soldiers withdrawed to mountains, where they joined with Partisans. To make good scen or campaign about it we need at least Slovak troops,Partisans, and Hlinka Guards (they fought against uprising with german SS div.)

[narwan]

I've tried to set-up battles (for PBEM) between the US and French in SPWW2 to simulate the US Torch landings but it always reverted to a battle in mainland france, not the colonies. I assume/hope in WinSPWW2 there will the option to choose the specific location (like Morocco, Algeria, west-africa, syria, madagascar, New caledonia, french indochina, to name a few locations I hope will be present) for generated battles with the vichy french?

Narwan

[DRG]

JaM said:
Original plan for 1944SNP uprising counted with Slovak Infantry division from eastern parts of Slovakia (Kosice,Presov) but those soldiers were disbanded with goverment as they find out that there is something suspicious. Whole uprising was as classical fight rather than guerilla fights.They had even small number of LT-38 tanks and small number of Marders.After the german SS troops occupied Banska Bystrica, many soldiers withdrawed to mountains, where they joined with Partisans. To make good scen or campaign about it we need at least Slovak troops,Partisans, and Hlinka Guards (they fought against uprising with german SS div.)



OK then what would you suggest as an ending date for the Slovak republic?

[DRG]

narwan said:
I've tried to set-up battles (for PBEM) between the US and French in SPWW2 to simulate the US Torch landings but it always reverted to a battle in mainland france, not the colonies. I assume/hope in WinSPWW2 there will the option to choose the specific location (like Morocco, Algeria, west-africa, syria, madagascar, New caledonia, french indochina, to name a few locations I hope will be present) for generated battles with the vichy french?

Narwan



Vichy France will have it's own AI picklist and battle locations but they will be tied to date and opponent as is done now.

Don

[narwan]

DRG said:

narwan said:
I've tried to set-up battles (for PBEM) between the US and French in SPWW2 to simulate the US Torch landings but it always reverted to a battle in mainland france, not the colonies. I assume/hope in WinSPWW2 there will the option to choose the specific location (like Morocco, Algeria, west-africa, syria, madagascar, New caledonia, french indochina, to name a few locations I hope will be present) for generated battles with the vichy french?

Narwan



Vichy France will have it's own AI picklist and battle locations but they will be tied to date and opponent as is done now.

Don



Which makes sense but some of these locations are interesting what if scenario's (what if New Caledonia didn't become free french or Indochina did (and was subsequently invaded)? What if the free french did invade some of the Vichy territories in west africa? etc) or interesting in a different time frame. What if Torch never happened and the allies landed in France in '43 (or even '44) with an intact Vichy france?
Will the options for battle locations be limited to purely historical campaigns and battles or leave room for these what-ifs? All you'd really need is a list of Vichy territories (and could have been Vichy territories) to pick from during the entire duration of the existence of the Vichy OB, whether the territory was still part of Vichy france or not. You'd get those options via the terrain editor screen during start-up of a battle if you pick Vichy france as a side. Assuming that's possible code wise.

Narwan

[DRG]

That's what sceanrio designers do. If you want to "what-if" design a scenario. Think about what you asked for a minite "What if Torch never happened and the allies landed in France in '43" ...... really?... Just HOW do I design battle locations for that and not generated a hundred emails from people telling me to read a history book ??

I'll tell you what...I'll provide the game and the Icons and the OOB's and you can build scenarios for what-if's like that. If you choose Japan vs Vichy you will be given something reasonably appropriate for the time period and if we can we will provide something totally appropriate. If you want to "what - if " something like Hungary vs Vichy France you'll be given a general map .

Don

[BaronvonBeer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys already give us the option to do just what narwan says? Before a campaign battle, can generate a new map with current location, with new (correct for matchup) location, or manualy enter a location "code". Couldn't you just enter a code in for the regiou you want to "what if"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narwan]

BaronvonBeer said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys already give us the option to do just what narwan says? Before a campaign battle, can generate a new map with current location, with new (correct for matchup) location, or manualy enter a location "code". Couldn't you just enter a code in for the regiou you want to "what if"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



That's what I was thinking of. Have codes in there to reflect the terrains of the different Vichy (and free french) territories (and a list somewhere to show you which is which). All you do is type the code of the location you want and voila, the right terrain. Doesn't seem to hard to me.
The 'create a scenario' solution isn't really a solution at all. There's little point in playing a PBEM game with a scenario I just created myself (including buying both forces and deploying them) now is there? Sort of takes the thrill and mystery out of it.
I play almost exclusively PBEM (beating the AI is far too easy for me) and for WW2 I like to play either 'historical' set-ups or realistic what-ifs. Vichy france allows for a lot of realistic what-ifs.

[DRG]

All true. This is actually something I had considered for the future anyway. We were too busy with other things when I first considered it and who knows... if might make it into the next version, or not, depending on what else we have to do HOWEVER. It is dead simple to create a map now and it's dead simple to load it at the start of the game. You want to "what-if-Vichy-vs-GB in Morroco in 1942"?? ALL you have to do now is either select a pre-existing desert map or spend about 2 minutes loading up two nations that actually fought in the desert and generate some maps until you find one that appeals to you then save it and start your Vichy game and load that map. That still means you can have your game with all the "thrill and mystery" you want. The tools are there now to do what you want. I understand wanting more tools and easier tools but the game can give you what you are looking for if you take a couple of extra steps

Don

[narwan]

That would be true if the battles in north africa against the vichy french were really 'desert' battles. Which they mostly were not. There is a huge difference between the western desert and French north africa, particularly the area's of actual fighting (lot's of it in urbanised and rough and/or wooded area's). You know what one of the main reasons for the delayed advance into Tunisia was after the landings in Algeria? Mud. Hard to get that when you put GB vs GE in the map generator in end '42.

I've tried those extra steps and all they do is give you a map that is less unrealistic than mainland france but still short of suitable. Now off course I could go and make my own map but I don't like making maps, mostly because I'm not good at it, and even if I were to, I don't like playing on a map I know intimately. Again, takes an important part of fun out of it.

I understand that the Vichy OB will likely be limited to the actual historical dates of the existence of Vichy France, so no 'what-ifs' outside that (short of designing them specifically). But I'm still having a hard time seeing the problem about having the option to type '36' and get a map for new Caledonia, or '29' and get Syria, etc, when you've selected Vichy France as one of the combatants. Not having the ability to get suitable maps readily, like for other nations, for the different parts of Vichy France seems to me to undermine at least part of having the OB at all...

[DRG]

This IS going to drag on and on isn't it?
The controls are there in the map generator that will buid a map suitable to your needs all you need to do is learn how to use it. That takes paractice but once it's learned you can generate a map that is suitable in a few minutes and does not have to be "a map I know intimately."
I'm just starting to regret mentioning this....

Don

[DRG]

Gentlemen

I need to know if anyone knows of a website that has a good, readable streat map of Warsaw circa August 1 1944.

EDITED

I'm looking for something better than the one found at
http://www.gideon1.net/uprising/waw1944.jpg

Don

[Weeble]

Try these, in combination:

Warsaw 1938:

http://www.biega.com/blwwa38.html

Warsaw Ghetto

http://www.biega.com/ghettoma.jpg

And:

http://www.princeton.edu/~poland/uprising/Aug5.jpg

[DRG]

Excellent start. Thank you.

Don

[Warhero]

Any possibility to add Philippines and Thailand into WinSPWW2? And how about Croatia?

[blazejos]

I sugest this forgoten cauntrys

- Lituania ( from 1930 to june 1940 this cauntry has his own land army airforces after this date cauntry should disapear but was antisoviet partisants. After germans invasion they were equiped by germans for fight with polish partisants they were a help units for germans and after bagration operation to 1949 should be like before antisoviets partisans.

- Latvia (1930 to june 1940 should be too a nice OOB. After disapear of this cauntry should be antisoviet partisants and after german invasion latvian fight in his own SS units for independent of his cauntry my grandfather remember this soliders in his vilage near Bydgoszcz when they retrat on west in january 1945 after rusian reocupation should be once more antisoviet partisans

- Estonia (1930 to june 1940) the same history after rusian ocupations were a partisans then fight together with germans in SS units for his cauntry indenpendent to the circa 1955 rusians fights with Esti partisans

- Ukraine (proposition june 1941- may 1945 was only indenpendent in short time 1917-1918 and was occupy by sovits. But after german invasion in 1941 was create a ukrainian goverment and SS Galizien division equiped by germans. They fight on the eastern front than against polish partisants and surrender to americans in Austria in may 1945 moust soliders were send by western alies to russia for ded's camps as a gift for Rusians. Because Stalin said "I moust have all this traitors". And don't forgot about "UPA" (Ukrajinska Powstancza Armija) this partisans forces was created in in end of 1942 (don't repudiate german ally Ukrainian goverment) fights with germans polish underground AK and rusians. They fight for the indenpendend Ukraine to the circa 1958. After WWII they fight in Poland , Czechoslovakia and USSR.

- Mongolia (1930 to 1949) they were secound comunists cauntry on the world in 1924 after soviet invasion. They were firsts soviet ally. Army equiped by rusians fight on Chasan lake and in all another fights with Japanse on the Far East. Was used too with rusians army in the invasion on Japanse China in 1945

- Manchukuo inner Manchuria (1931 to august 1945) Japanse ally has his own land and air forces eqiped by Japanse. Should be a third chinse OOB

[blazejos]

I sugest some changes in german and rusian OOB:

- rusian OOB
Forgoten NKVD units that was a infantery divisions with light tanks like T-37 and armoured cars. They were a elite in elite.
They fight many years before war for example NKVD infantery divisions and Tank units crush antisoviet upspring on Kharakorum desert in 1931. Than during war were in secound line near front line units when they retrat NKVD stops the retrating they kiling the retrating soliders or all units.
Forgoten rusian Vlasov army units I sugest a transfer from german OOB to rusian with trigger as human buy only

- german OOB
Adolf Hitler take the regin in march 1933 so before was a waimar republic with flag like today. Next thing in german OOB are rusians East units and formations but I think they should be in rusian OOB because that was a rusian units for fights with comunism so they were ally for germans.

[blazejos]

Best source in internet about Warsaw upspring unfortunly in polish but please see maps and fotos
http://www.whatfor.prv.pl/

The Warsaw Rising Museum
http://www.1944.pl/index.php?lang=en&lang_time=1

[DRG]

Warhero said:
Any possibility to add Philippines and Thailand into WinSPWW2? And how about Croatia?




Thailand has existed in SPww2 for years!

Don

[DRG]

Re the Baltic states... yes it would be intereresting but No. Maybe some other time but not now.

Mongolia I'll think about

Manchukuo was entered into the game last week. The list of new nations is listed here

Slovak Republic
Manchukuo
Italian Socialist Republic
Vichy France
Chinese Communists

That list *will* stay this way and not grow until we get ALL the other details of the game conversion sorted out ( and there are many ) and these five OOB's are completed. When that is all done and IF we both still have a sense of humour left I may.... ***MAY*** consider some of these other suggestions.

Don

[Warhero]

Yes I knew it Don;). But I just wanted to know that at least Thailand will be there (Philippines and Croatia could be nice to see there too) ok?

Warhero

[halstein]

DRG said:
Slovak Republic
Manchukuo
Italian Socialist Republic
Vichy France
Chinese Communists

Don


Will you still have some "blank" OOBs so that indoustrous person can make some of the OOBs you don't make?

Halstein.

[DRG]

Warhero said:
Yes I knew it Don;). But I just wanted to know that at least Thailand will be there (Philippines and Croatia could be nice to see there too) ok?

Warhero



If you knew it was in the game already and had been for quite some time, why ask if it would be included?

Don

[DRG]

halstein said:


Don


Will you still have some "blank" OOBs so that indoustrous person can make some of the OOBs you don't make?

Halstein.

[/quote]


Yes. Three spares will be included

Don

[troopie]

It would be nice to see South Africa and Brazil.

troopie

[blazejos]

Ach don't forgot Slovaks was the first germans ally they fights in 1939 in Zakopane and Rabka area atack the south flank of polish army Krakow and Karpaty. Slovaks give for atack on poland a three divisions of infantery , tanks group and aircrafts see here this green units are slovakian army
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/Dywizje_wrzesien_1.png

All description of Polish defense war in 1939
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_September_Campaign

[blazejos]

see that in thema Warsaw upspring

The beast source in English are photos of used weapons of both side
http://www.warsawuprising.com/

The site with many essays and links in thema polish underground in english
http://www.polishresistance-ak.org/

AND aircraft fotos map of Warszawa from 1935 a ultimate and best map of Warsaw from upspring times
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/fotoplan/zestawienie_arkuszy.htm

and the legend in english
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index.php

[DRG]

http://www.warszawa1939.pl/fotoplan/zestawienie_arkuszy.htm


That one is simply stunning. I never , in my wildest dreams, expected to find some thing like that. THANK YOU!

Don

[Mobhack]

DRG said:
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/fotoplan/zestawienie_arkuszy.htm


That one is simply stunning. I never , in my wildest dreams, expected to find some thing like that. THANK YOU!

Don



Absolutely amazing resource - and you can zoom in and get photos of some key buildings. Simply stunning.

Andy

[blazejos]

I have a proposition of add a new OOB polish comunists LWP army (Ludowe Wojsko Polskie) because they are a major rusian ally on estern front like czechoslovakian army. I made the OOB for this is completed so you moust only put them in game code. This OOB should be useful too after war years 1945-1949 because in this times we have two polish goverments. One in London with army in England (in SPWW2 has his OOB) and the secound controled by Rusians in Poland with LWP (my proposition OOB) in hypotetical WWIII clash after WWII betwen East and West we should have polish on both sides and that should simulate secound polish OOB. In 17.09.1939 russia atack poland and take many poles to death camp during ocupation of eastern poland. After german invasion 22.06.1941 poland becam a rusian ally not enemy like before. So poles parole from death camps on siberia created the army under general Anders command. Rusians want used this army on front as a cannon fodder fast as posible without traing and enaught weapons (because we were problematical ally for rusians) so G.Anders escape with his army to Iran to the western Alies. Furious Stalin break the diplomatic connections with polish goverment in England and creates from polish comunists in russia his own polish goverment know as PKWN. LWP (Ludowe Wojsko Polskie)(Polish people's army) was created in Juni 1943 from poles colected from rusians Deads camps. Only not more than half catch to Iran so the rest join to LWP that was a one method for leave this deth's camps on siberia. Rusian know that this polish soliders don't trust the rusians goverment so all the key comanders becam rusians officers or NKVD agents. Rusians don't wants secound escape. This soliders was too under heavy propaganda influency because see too many and know too many about comunism in russia. Polish division was used the first time in october 1943 in middle byelorussia to the crush the front in Lenino area. This battle was wery bloody and was tootaly disaster because rusians don't give a artilery , air support and help of neighbour rusians division. After this battle poles was retrat from the front and used in battle next time in 1944 during fights in south east poland. Than LWP soliders fights on the right bank of Wisla river in east Warsaw and can't help the insuregents during upspring (Rusians prohibit). In 1944 one infantery division grow too the 1th polish army. This army fights in the early 1945 on the Pomernn Stelung (north-west poland after war) in Danzing(Gdansk) crosing Oder river and than fighst in the north suburbies of Berlin. The 2th polish army created by polish comunists in 1944 fights in south poland in Krakow area than in Silesia and fights last fights in the Dresden are with gen. Steiner army.

About flag for this OOB i thing LWP should use simple polish flag (prefered by this goverment) red-white. For polish prewar army , army in France and than in England I sugest a new polish flag with small Eagle on white part like in my avatar.

What do you thing about secound "Polish Comunists OOB" as I write before I have this OOB ready so include of this OOB don't need a resarch I do this before. Only what is need that is a picklist and if you accept this I can do this very fast. This OOB generally is copy from rusians OOB the same units and formations only changes in some dates of avaiablity and in units moust of them was not used in LWP. This OOB don't need a new icons and new lbm's because lbm's of LWP soliders and vehicles was included before in last DOS SPWW2 se the range Pm29304 to Pm29421.

[RecruitMonty]

Why will there be no desert? Will it be removed completely?

[Nox]

Where did you get that idea?

If youre referring to these posts:


Warhero said:
Btw, be sure that British vs Italy 1943 (June and forward) battle locations (maps) will be in right terrain (not always in desert as in SPWAW seems to be)... It's bit strange that Matrix never fixed that.



Btw, you do get a summer map at least in v7.1.


DRG said:
Don't worry. They don't give you desert.

Don



You just misunderstood them. They were talking about default battle locations regarding different nation setups and battle dates. The: "Don't worry. They don't give you desert." means only that if you choose a random battle whit Britain vs Italy in 1943 you will not get a desert map. If you choose Britain vs Italy in 1942 you will get a desert map, etc... So desert is stil there in WinSPWW2.

[blazejos]

I Sugested three cauntrys
A) Iranian OOB - indenpendent cauntry invaded in 1941 by alies rusians and british
B) Iraq OOB - should be nice fight in battles with british in 1941 in iraq this cauntry used his own equipment buy in italy CV tankeetes for example
C) Tibet - was invaded by comunists china in 1949 should be nice play in this misions

[DRG]

RecruitMonty said:
Why will there be no desert? Will it be removed completely?



RELAX. The maps will match the battle locations. There will be desert where desert is applicable.

Don

[troopie]

Does any have a notion as to what nations will be included? I presume, every one that was in the Dos version, but what others?

Take your time in answering, enjoy Christmas.

troopie

[DRG]

In addition to the nations that were in SPww2v7 we have added the following

Slovak Republic
Manchukuo
Italian Social Republic (RSI)
Vichy France
Polish Communists (LWP)
Chinese Communists


In all cases where this means a split from a parent OOB (like the Slovak rep and Czechoslovakia and the RSI from Italy and Vichy from France etc.) those parent nations have been redone as well. We ***MAY*** add Croatia but that is in no way a promise so I don't want anyone coming back in 6 months asking where Croatia is if it doesn't make it to the game.

Don

[Double_Deuce]

DRG said:
We ***MAY*** add Croatia but that is in no way a promise so I don't want anyone coming back in 6 months asking where Croatia is if it doesn't make it to the game.


Come on Don, you really think we would do that to you guys? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DRG]

Yes.

[troopie]

All right, I going to say it. Is there a chance of seeing South Africa in WinSPWW2. and do you want help in putting an SA orbat together?

My father fought in WW2, and I want to honour him. Beside that, we always seem to get left out.

troopie

[Mobhack]

No current plans to make a separated SA OOB for WW2. Too small a force to justify an OOB, batloc codes etc.

Cheers
Andy

[Riesig_Bar]

Is there special WinSPWW2 forum?

[Mobhack]

There will be one, when the game is released.

Cheers
Andy

[math_villard]

What about a Danish OOB (1930-1940)?

I have released this danish oob for old SPWW2v7.01

[Riesig_Bar]

Thanks Andy

[cbo]

math_villard said:
What about a Danish OOB (1930-1940)?

I have released this danish oob for old SPWW2v7.01



I'd like a Danish OOB for obvious reason - I'm Danish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Even though the Army only fought for a couple of hours in 1940 and again in 1943, it would be usefull for a Weserübung campaign (the German attack on Denmark/Norway) and what-ifs. After all, the Danish Army saw more figthting than the Swedes, who are already in the game (v. 7.x) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And the OOB should be extended to 8/43.

Claus B

[Mobhack]

cbo said:

math_villard said:
What about a Danish OOB (1930-1940)?

I have released this danish oob for old SPWW2v7.01



I'd like a Danish OOB for obvious reason - I'm Danish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Even though the Army only fought for a couple of hours in 1940 and again in 1943, it would be usefull for a Weserübung campaign (the German attack on Denmark/Norway) and what-ifs. After all, the Danish Army saw more figthting than the Swedes, who are already in the game (v. 7.x) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And the OOB should be extended to 8/43.

Claus B



Claus

The Swedes got in as I recall, as an Ally for Finland. Some Expiditionary force or other.

Denmark might happen (as with Portugal, Brazil etc who fought in Italy), at a later release. But right now, I don't have a man week or so to spare to integrate a new OOB with the game, which is shortly about to go to playtesting anyway.

Can't think of any nations left out that actually fought in WW2 (e.g Switzerland, Turkey and Eire would never make it in).

Cheers
Andy

[cbo]

Mobhack said:

Claus

The Swedes got in as I recall, as an Ally for Finland. Some Expiditionary force or other.



AFAIK the Swedes sent military aid in the form of equipment, but never sent any forces. The Swedes that went to Finland were volunteers as were many Norwegians and Danes.
Denmark was probably closer to being an ally of Germany then Sweden was to Finland, as the Germans were allowed to raise a national Waffen-SS battalion - Freikorps Danmark - from recruiting offices in Denmark. Danish officers got permission to leave the Danish Army to serve in the Freikorps from King and goverment (promptly forgotten in 1945 of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ). Danish goverment ministers were even inspecting the unit in Germany.

I know, of course, that a Freikorps scenario could (and probably should) be made by using the German OOB. But if being a near ally of a WWII combatant is a criteria, the Danes should be in (on the wrong side, unfortunately, but still in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )


Mobhack said:Denmark might happen (as with Portugal, Brazil etc who fought in Italy), at a later release. But right now, I don't have a man week or so to spare to integrate a new OOB with the game, which is shortly about to go to playtesting anyway.



No problem, just wanted to strike a blow for the ol' countrys chances of making the game if the powers that be decide to expand the roster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Claus B

[wulfir]

cbo said:
I'd like a Danish OOB for obvious reason - I'm Danish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




I'd like a Danish OOB too, for obvious reasons - then one could fight Sweden vs Denmark battles. Just like in the good old days, eh...? I'm Swedish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Artur]

wulfir said:

cbo said:
I'd like a Danish OOB for obvious reason - I'm Danish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




I'd like a Danish OOB too, for obvious reasons - then one could fight Sweden vs Denmark battles. Just like in the good old days, eh...? I'm Swedish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif



LOL. Neighbours are just the same...

Artur.

[Nox]

Having Swedish OOB in the game is unrealistic. Sweden was a neutral country and did not participate in the war in any way. Sweden did not give any military support to Finland. And most sertanly Sweden was not an Ally to anyone. (Hence the word neutral country.) Finland did buy some weapons from Sweden but this is not the same as giving military support. Sweden did give humanitarian aid to Finland which was allowed for a neutral country to do. If Sweden is there already then why not add other neutral countries like Spain, Switzerland, etc. also?

I dont see any sence in adding Denmark either. Denmark was an occupied country. If you want to represent Danish born people fighting alongside German units then add them to the German OOB.

If you have to add Danish OOB then make it from 1930-1940 only.
Same thing for Swedish OOB 1930-1940.

[wulfir]

Nox said:
Having Swedish OOB in the game is unrealistic. Sweden was a neutral country and did not participate in the war in any way. Sweden did not give any military support to Finland. And most sertanly Sweden was not an Ally to anyone. (Hence the word neutral country.) Finland did buy some weapons from Sweden but this is not the same as giving military support. Sweden did give humanitarian aid to Finland which was allowed for a neutral country to do. If Sweden is there already then why not add other neutral countries like Spain, Switzerland, etc. also?

I dont see any sence in adding Denmark either. Denmark was an occupied country. If you want to represent Danish born people fighting alongside German units then add them to the German OOB.

If you have to add Danish OOB then make it from 1930-1940 only.
Same thing for Swedish OOB 1930-1940.




http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I disagree with pretty much everything you've stated.

Swedish OOB unrealistic? I don't see how...? Sweden as a country existed during the war. The same goes for the other neutrals - Spain for example which is also in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Limiting OOBs to certain stop dates...? Why? So that no "what ifs" can be created - sounds like a hopeless crusade to me...

I'd support the inclusion of any country in the game, however minor it may have been. After all, it's not like anybody is forceing players to use them...

Lastly:


Nox said:Sweden was a neutral country and did not participate in the war in any way. Sweden did not give any military support to Finland.



Are two puzzeling statements but interesting nonetheless. If you have the time it would be happy to hear what you base them on. PM me if you like...

[cbo]

Nox said:
I dont see any sence in adding Denmark either. Denmark was an occupied country. If you want to represent Danish born people fighting alongside German units then add them to the German OOB.



France was an occupied country, Poland was an occupied country, Holland was an occupied country... I could go on and on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The fact is that Denmark was attacked by Germany on April 9th 1940 and there was a few hours of fighting in Jutland as well as in Copenhagen. There was fighting again in 1943 when the German Army decided to disarm and demobilize the Danish Army, also about half a day.
Of course, both occasions could be elaborated on with what-ifs and you could even make a two-battle campaign http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Or include the Danish debacle in a "Weserübung" campaign.


Nox said:If you have to add Danish OOB then make it from 1930-1940 only.



Why? The Danish Army remained operational under the German occupation until August 1943.

As I said before, though Denmark was not a major combattant, at least the country did fight - as opposed to Sweden (but keep the Swedes in - we have scores to settle, particularily since the latest articles in Aftonbladet about Denmark http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ). So if participation is a criterum - then Denmark should be in - at some point.

Claus B

[Nox]

wulfir said:
Are two puzzeling statements but interesting nonetheless. If you have the time it would be happy to hear what you base them on. PM me if you like...




What I mean is that Sweden was neutral in 1941-1945. It was not in war whit any country. As for the military support. If you count the selling of ammunition and old guns. Then yes Sweden did give military support to Finland. However this was not done officialy or in so large scale that the Allies or the Russians would have wanted to declare war against Sweden. Neither did Sweden engage in actual fighting whit any country or deploy its forces to fight alongside other forces. A few thousand volunteers does not count for actual military support if you compare this to the weapons and military forces that were coming from Germany at the time. So at that time the official oppinion of all the major powers was that Sweden was not giving military support to Finland and that Sweden remained a neutral country.

Also Sweden as every other neutral country was not neutral just because it was not engaging in the war. The neutral treaty was an official writen document signed whit all the major forces (USA, Great Britain, USSR, Germany) and breaking it would have had wery serious consequences.


cbo said:
Why? The Danish Army remained operational under the German occupation until August 1943.



A few hours in 1940 and about a day of fighting in 1943 is not enough for a new OOB in my oppinion. Denmark as a country whit free will and political power did not exist during the time of German occupation so it should not be in the game, at least during the years of 1941-1945. I doubt the Danish Army was nothing more than a national puppet for the people to keep them happy. I cant see that they could have really attacked Germany or Sweden under the Danish flag in those years. Bottom line is that Denmark had capitulated in 1940.

IMHO every country in-game should seize to be available after they were conquered or turned neutral. Whatif scenarions can still be created using the Editor even if the country is unavailable for a random battle at that date.

[cbo]

Nox said:
A few hours in 1940 and about a day of fighting in 1943 is not enough for a new OOB in my oppinion. Denmark as a country whit free will and political power did not exist during the time of German occupation so it should not be in the game, at least during the years of 1941-1945.



Why 1941? What happened in 1941? Also, the Danish goverment did excercise a large degree of control until 1943.


Nox said:I doubt the Danish Army was nothing more than a national puppet for the people to keep them happy. I cant see that they could have really attacked Germany or Sweden under the Danish flag in those years. Bottom line is that Denmark had capitulated in 1940.



But German attacked the Danish Army in 1943. The Army had most of its weapons available and was primarily disarmed because the German military command in Denmark did not want to have it in their rear in case of an allied invasion.


Nox said:
IMHO every country in-game should seize to be available after they were conquered or turned neutral. Whatif scenarions can still be created using the Editor even if the country is unavailable for a random battle at that date.



So France should be removed in June 1940?

I dont think your ideas quite manage to reflect how complex the political situation was in Europe during WWII and your suggestions would remove the possibility of many odd and interesting encounters. I guess I take quite the opposite point of view. Rather than reducing the game to a limited number of countries available at very limited periods, it should be expanded as much as the developers have the time and energy for. Once you've played your 253rd German vs US encounter, that tends to get a bit old, so being able to do something odd like Belgium vs Italy in Etheopia 1941 or Denmark vs Germany in 1943 is what adds flavour to the game and, together with the many SPCAMO improvements, makes it playable still, 10 years after it first came out.

Claus B

[wulfir]

Nox said:
What I mean is that Sweden was neutral in 1941-1945. It was not in war whit any country.



Sweden was not at war 1930-1940 either yet you think a Swedish OOB might be allowed during this time...? That is a bit odd IMHO, the greatest threat of invasion came in 1942 in conjunction with the February crisis...? Not to mention the far advanced preparations for marching into Danmark/Norway in 1945…? Won’t be able to play those scenarios if you have your way.

US Army and USMC OOBs should be eliminated prior to Dec 1941 as well maybe...? It being a neutral country and all...?


Nox said:
As for the military support. If you count the selling of ammunition and old guns...



You don't count intelligence co-operation then..., not even Stella Polaris…?



Nox said:Neither did Sweden engage in actual fighting whit any country or deploy its forces to fight alongside other forces. A few thousand volunteers does not count for actual military support…..



No? When does it begin to count then…?


Nox said:So at that time the official oppinion of all the major powers was that Sweden was not giving military support to Finland and that Sweden remained a neutral country.



Official opinion heh… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
It was convenient. Nobody was fooled by the so called neutrality.


Nox said:Also Sweden as every other neutral country was not neutral just because it was not engaging in the war. The neutral treaty was an official writen document signed whit all the major forces (USA, Great Britain, USSR, Germany) and breaking it would have had wery serious consequences.



The neutrality that never was…
It’s a myth.

The neutrality was broken on such numerous occasions during WWII and after that it’s almost like a poor joke.

[wulfir]

cbo said:
Rather than reducing the game to a limited number of countries available at very limited periods, it should be expanded as much as the developers have the time and energy for. Once you've played your 253rd German vs US encounter, that tends to get a bit old...



I agree with Claus. Include instead of reduce, the more possibileties the better. The ones who prefer to play that 254th German vs US encounter can still do it. For us who don't mind a little variation here's to hoping a Danish OOB gets included some time in the future.

If it does, we're coming you know. Dubbel svensk lösen! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

http://www.smb.nu/images/pos/9707_per_albin3_2.gif

[RubberNeck]

It is a great asset to the game to have these so-called 'minor' countries represented. Too many games (not to mention history texts) fail to give enough exposure to the roles played by these countries.

Even if a particular country did not mobilize an invasion force or other large scale operation there are often countless small internal engagements where the military or militia was used in countering sabotage, searching for escaped prisoners of war, civil uprising or even unofficial covert operations. These types of actions are prime material for gameplay and in my experience with the various SP games are often my favorites.

If someone is willing to spend the time to include these countries it can only benefit the entire SP community.

Rubberneck

[cbo]

Just dawned on my, that the Danish OOB should really be expanded to 1945 (or 1946 for what-ifs) as there was a brigade of Danish troops training in Sweden, equipped with Swedish weapons and intended to land in Denmark in case of an allied invasion. In the end, they sailed over when the Germans capitulated.
As per Wulfirs post - Swedish neutrality had a flexible quality to it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Claus B