Artillery ROFs question

[Marcello]

It is my understanding that unlike for direct fire guns,where things like experience and such are more important, there is a much stronger correlation in the game between ROF and indirect rate of fire.If this is true can I ask what are the criteria for translating real life ROFs into game values?
Is the number of rounds that can be practically fired in a minute (as opposed to burst fire or theoretical maximum rates of fire) in sustained fire mode? Are there others factors?

[JaM]

It is hard to say. I have reworked my OObs and i used for all known arty systems their ROF for 2 minutes (first minute maximum rate of fire, second sustained rate of fire) as one turn in game manual is more than one minute. With this M109 has r.o.f 5. I prefer more rounds on target instead of more possible salvos...


p.s. my 200 post.... lets celebrate!

[Beeg]

Congratulations, Sergeant!

Beeg

[pdoktar]

If I remember correctly, changing RoF figures for artillery pieces and then running them through the cost calculator, doesn´t affect their cost.

So when I tried to make PzH2000 a bit more realistic (my opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) and RoF to 8, I got myself almoust double the firepower at the same price. I have no idea how to value this increase. (So I added roughly 50% to the cost).

More rounds in a target per minute is SO much better than the number of salvos. Especially true in real life.

Any ideas?

[JaM]

Thank Beeg.

I have ROF 10 for PzH2000, 8 for GTC,2S19,M109A6 Paladin,7 for AS90, ShKH Zuzana

[thatguy96]

Are these values at all realisitic? It sounds like there's some slight inflation to these values. For instance, an M109A6 can punch out 4 rounds a minute, but only for three minutes. However, the sustained rate for 60 minutes is only 1 round per minute. Sustained fire is what I would see as the default here since there isn't any real way to get artillery units to do this bombardment/quick shoot and then be inactive for a certain amount of time while the gun was allowed to cool down and return to a safe level of operation. If we assume that the average turn is somewhere between 5-8 minutes wouldn't it be safe to assume these values should generally be under 10 if not considerably under 10?

[DRG]

WHERE exactly do you get... "If we assume that the average turn is somewhere between 5-8 minutes "

????

This is from the first page of the GG.....

==========
One game move (player 1 turn plus player 2 turn) represents roughly 2 minutes of 'real time'.
==========

That number has been interpreted a bit higher in the past ( like 3-4 minutes ) but never 5 - 8. 2-3 minutes is the accepted norm for a game turn

Don

[Marcello]

"there isn't any real way to get artillery units to do this bombardment/quick shoot and then be inactive for a certain amount of time while the gun was allowed to cool down and return to a safe level of operation."

But IIRC (I do not play that much, I have more fun hacking OOBs) guns are not available all the time anyway.If they are cooling down, among the others things,then sustained rate of fire for a few minutes rather than an hour might be a better choice.I do have reservations about including burst fire however, as that down time for cooling down may not be available with sufficient regularity.

[Marcello]

On a different note, what is your take on APUs and direct fire sights?
I have given a speed of one and FC 5 and RF 6 to my G5 howitzers, given that they have APUs and telescopic sights.Do you believe that this is appropriate?

[PlasmaKrab]

Marcello said:
On a different note, what is your take on APUs and direct fire sights?
I have given a speed of one and FC 5 and RF 6 to my G5 howitzers, given that they have APUs and telescopic sights.Do you believe that this is appropriate?

Hasn't the G5 some move points already?
Anyway if you look at the Russian OOB, you should find a "unit 578: 85mm AT-Gun-Whl" which if I guess right is supposed to be an airborne forces' SD-44, with an attached APU to allow it to operate without tractor for a time (afer being dropped f.e.).
It has a speed of 3, which I find credible for APU-driven artillery guns, since IIRC some are able to drive at decent speeds all by themselves.
So I guess what you did is broadly right! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Marcello]

Neither the russian 125mm 2A45 ATG or the G5 have mobility in the game, despite being fitted with APUs.So I wondered if there was a policy on this issue and the reasoning behind it.The G5 is supposedly capable of quite some speed but it takes a couple of minutes to get it underway so I was not sure.

[PlasmaKrab]

I must admit that I have no idea about a possible 'official policy' on that.

BTW, are you sure about the 2A45? AFAIK this one is on a D-30-like three-legged carriage where the wheels are high above the ground when deployed, so I have no idea how that would help anything regarding quick-redeploy. But apparently there is!

[thatguy96]

Marcello said:
"there isn't any real way to get artillery units to do this bombardment/quick shoot and then be inactive for a certain amount of time while the gun was allowed to cool down and return to a safe level of operation."

But IIRC (I do not play that much, I have more fun hacking OOBs) guns are not available all the time anyway.If they are cooling down, among the others things,then sustained rate of fire for a few minutes rather than an hour might be a better choice.I do have reservations about including burst fire however, as that down time for cooling down may not be available with sufficient regularity.


Well if the average turn is 2-3 minutes, and you can repeat fire on the same hex after a fire mission in between 1.3-2 turns, I just would not think that less than 10 minutes is enough to cool down a large caliber tube.

[Marcello]

I had this mental image of a G5 running on a road at 15 kph with the artillerymen trying desperately to keep up with their tongues out while attempting to drag a few rounds with them and the section commander yelling:"our turn was over five minutes ago"...

[Mobhack]

no real policy.

However most guns with an APU in reality only use that to deploy to/from the tractor, and not to motor several miles down a road, let alone 1000m cross country. FH-70 does not have movement forex.

If you feel different - feel free to mobhack your own figures.

(Wish that 25 pounder I pushed through the Otterburn clag along with a dozen+ UOTC cadets had had one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

Cheers
Andy

[troopie]

To move the G-5 with the APU you have to make sure it's unloaded and lock it down. Then you have to make sure it's on level ground, unlock it and swing it round, and steady it before loading. All this takes some time.

troopie

[Marek_Tucan]

And how many rounds is possible to carry on the APU'ed gun? Not much I suspect.
Maybe the solution would be, if you want the APU-equipped pieces, to create a clone of the original stationary, give it some movement and drasticcaly reduce the ammo load? Would require ammo truck right behind it all the time, of course.

[Marcello]

"And how many rounds is possible to carry on the APU'ed gun? Not much I suspect."

Judging from the pictures of these artillery pieces, zero is probably the answer to your question.Personally my idea was to use that mobility to move the guns between prepared positions:leave a shelter, drive to a fire position, execute the fire mission and then roll back into a shelter to avoid eventual counterbattery fire.Ammunition in this case would be prepositioned and thus not an issue.