Artifact Game - ready!!

[Ironhawk]

I'm thinking about starting up a new MP game where each nation starts off with 2-4 artifacts already in thier possession. The idea behind it being that the last of the old gods have died off and the new, younger pretenders have grabbed up all thier ancient and powerful tools leftover from the conflict. But the key question is this: which nations get which artifacts?? Additionally, to go along with the storyline, I want to assign artifacts to nations thematically: ie, Pangea might get the Soulstone while Ulm would get Magebane.

So, what do you think? Which nations should get which artifacts?

[Wish]

marignon would definately get the chalice.

[Endoperez]

Niefelheim should start with 166 Blood Slaves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Cainehill]

That could certainly be an interesting game, although as much effort would have to go into balance as thematics. Soulstone of the wolves would be huge in the early game, for instance.

I'd think the Flying Ship should probably go to Vanheim; ditto the Fenris Pelt.

C'Tis certainly gets the one only C'tis can use. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Turin]

Some ideas:

Atlantis: well orb of atlantis obviously
R´lyeh: Nethgul
Tien´chi: sandals of the crane
Pangeae: aegis
Man: the calius stuff
mictlan: sceptre of corruption
ermor: sword of injustice
caelum: tempest

[Oversway]

I think its a cool idea!

[Ironhawk]

Glad that people are interested in the idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I thought it was pretty cool too. But yeah, balance for this game is going to be huge which is why I wanted to continue to get opinions on this forum. I'm going to try and put together a basic list of which nation gets what based on my own thoughts and what people have said here so far.

As for the Soulstone (or other artifacts) in early game being too powerful: I agree. There is a possibility that I may shy away from handing out the really commonly used insanely powerful artifacts. That - or I may just insure that every nation gets one artifact that they can use to really leverage thier early game.

[shovah]

and of course maybe you could add in some weaker artifacts? it would be really cool to see the prophet gonig out fully kitted in decent stuff (const 4 maybe with an artifact or 2)
ulm should DEFINETLY get the hammer of the forge lord unless it would cause imbalance and maybe abysia could get some kurgi stuff?

[Arralen]

There are 65 unique artifacts .. there's no need to hand out ALL of them, let alone lesser items ??

And if you check the flavour text, some items have an "origin nation" .. eg. the Hammer of the Forge Lord belongs to Vanheim, not Ulm.

Actually, Ulm shouldn't get any high-level items, but tons of low-level stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hmmm, the Barrier (shield) read like it could fit for Ulm.

[Vicious Love]

Turin said:
Some ideas:

Atlantis: well orb of atlantis obviously


It wouldn't be all that useful to them. And I can see it winding up in Pythium's possession. That might make things interesting.


R´lyeh: Nethgul


See above. And we already know the Atlanteans have something like Nethgul secreted in one of their coral towers.


Pangeae: aegis



Nah, they only do living gorgons. The Aegis is all Arcoscephale.


Man: the calius stuff



And the Green Eye, possibly the Tome of Gaia.


mictlan: sceptre of corruption



How d'you figure? Seems like more of a Desert Tombs item, along with the Ankh. I'd imagine they'd get the Crown of Overmight and the Twin Spears. They're also almost as good a candidate as Marignon for the Forbidden Light.

[Ironhawk]

OK, after musing on the artifacts for some time, here is the preliminary list that I have come up with. I tried to assign artifacts thematically where I could, but reassigned some of them away from thier "natural" nations to spread the power around more equally. Additionally, I attempted to give each nation artifacts that would help them from turn 1 and also others that would be more useful later on. Two artifacts: Gift of Kurgi and The Magic Lamp were not assigned because I felt they were simply too powerful for any nation to own on turn 1. Lastly, both water nations got poor selections as almost nothing fit them thematically and water nations get a pretty easy start anyway.


Abysia
-----------------------
Unquenched Sword
O'al Kan's Sceptre
Aseftik's Armor

Atlantis
-----------------------
Orb of Atlantis
Mage Bane

Pythium
-----------------------
The Sword of Aurgelmer
Tome of High Power
The Sharpest Tooth

Man
-----------------------
Crown of the Ivy King
Robe of Calius the Druid
The Boots of Calius the Druid
Boots of Antaeus
Percival the Pocket Knight

Ulm
-----------------------
Crown of Overmight
Gate Stone
Alchemist's Stone
The Summit

Ctis
-----------------------
The Jade Mask
The Ankh
Amon Hotep

Arcoscephale
-----------------------
Boots of the Planes
Forbidden Light
The Sword of many Colors
The Aegis

Caelum
-----------------------
Tempest

Ermor
-----------------------
The Sickle whose Crop is Pain
Sceptre of Dark Regency
Sword of Injustice
Twin Spear - SD

Marignon
-----------------------
Sword of Justice
The Ark
The Chalice
Sun Sword

Pangaea
-----------------------
The Stone Sword
The Tome of Gaia
Soulstone of the Wolves

Vanheim
-----------------------
The Flying Ship
Oath Rod of Kurgi
Twin Spear - SB
Fenris Pelt

Jotunheim
-----------------------
Winter Bringer
Monolith Armor
The Black Book of Secrets

R'lyeh
-----------------------
Nethgul
Trident from Beyond

Mictlan
-----------------------
Sceptre of Corruption
Procas's Axe of Rulership
Harvest Blade
Barrier

T'ien Ch'i
-----------------------
Ember
Robe of the Sorceress
Hammer of the Forge Lord
The Ruby Eye
Sandals of the Crane

Machaka
-----------------------
The Tartarian Chains
Rod of Death
The Flailing Hands
Picus's Axe of Rulership
Sun Slayer
Carcator the Pocket Lich

[Wish]

what about the kurgi thing, that would totally be a rlyeh thing

[Ironhawk]

Are you suggesting I move the Oath Rod from Vanhiem to Ryleh? Or that I assign the Gift of Kurgi? As for the later, I'm not assigning the Gift because its simply too powerful. Throw it on even a junk SC and it suddenly becomes extremely powerful.

[Ironhawk]

I've worked out all the details with modding and now am almost ready to start the Artifact Game. Before I did so I reviewed the artifact list once more and noticed that some nations were (relatively speaking) weak in the early game due to thier alloted artifacts. In particular, Man, Pan, TC, and Machaka. Can people who are interested in this game look over the

Revised Artifact List (v2) (http://67.190.105.206:8080/~quinn/artifact_list.html)

and make suggestions on how to strengthen the early game of these nations or others (if you notice any other weakness)?

[shovah]

pangea could do ok if their pretender could put on the boots and spam something, machaka could stick chains on a survivable pretender and enslave armies, TC may have a little trouble and man could basically do the same as pan or rush for vine men/ogres. im still for my idea of trinkets aswell but thats just me. im guessing when your ready you will be putting a thread in multiplayer? and personally i think atlantis is a little weak (not to mention i thought ryleh had the orb because i got an even as ryleh which mentioned some guys coming to find it)

[archaeolept]

just checked to make sure you had gotten rid of the soulstone ;P

looks intriguing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironhawk]

shovah said:
pangea could do ok if their pretender could put on the boots and spam something, machaka could stick chains on a survivable pretender and enslave armies, TC may have a little trouble and man could basically do the same as pan or rush for vine men/ogres. im still for my idea of trinkets aswell but thats just me. im guessing when your ready you will be putting a thread in multiplayer? and personally i think atlantis is a little weak (not to mention i thought ryleh had the orb because i got an even as ryleh which mentioned some guys coming to find it)



Yeah, good points shovah. Tho I have been toying around with the idea of having human-only pretenders. It fits in with the theme of the passing of the Old Gods, you know? Cause all that are left now are thier human servants and the new batch of pretenders are the most powerful of the lot who are now fighting for dominance. Plus, going human-only sidesteps the issue of mega pretender-SCs from turn 1, which could potentially be unbalancing.

I like your idea about trinkets too. I actually considered it myself - thought about giving Man a Staff of Storms, for example. And TC a Wand of Wild Fire or Phoenix Rod or something. Do you all have any feelings on what would be good trinkets for the weaker nations? Stuff to help thier starting armies take off?

[Turin]

TC is weak with the Hammer of the forge lord and ember? And they get two very useful boosters too? I´d say they get top of the line stuff.

In fact I´d rate the way you have given artifacts to the nations as follows:

1) arcoscephale:
boots of the planes and the aegis are both among the most powerful artifacts, the forbidden light is very powerful too and a free improved staff of elemental mastery is very nice.


2) ermor:
They are amazingly unbalanced with the sickle at the start. Just load SG ermor, prophetize your wraith centurion and channel the 30 gems he gets each battle to your home province with scouts. sceptre of dark regency is great as well

3) tien´chi:
hotfl and ember are top tier and the other items are nice boosters.

4) ulm:
they get the gate stone, the gate stone rocks! The summit and alchemists stone are quite nice too.

5) pythium:
They get the sword of augelmer, another top tier item. The tome of high power is nice too

6) marignon:
The chalice and the ark are both very nice, but not too gamebreaking.

7-9) mictlan, atlantis and vanheim each get a very good item, but not much else.

10-16) the rest, not much very useful stuff there.

[archaeolept]

I'd agree ermor's selection is a bit scary; the others are not really unbalanced w/ human pretenders, though arcos and tien chi are pretty heavy duty if the normal gamut of SC pretenders is allowed.

[Truper]

I won't offer an opinion on who should get which artifacts and why, since I haven't played with them often enough to know what all of them do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

But I would say that if you're going to do this, why not allow any and all pretenders, and get the full flavor?

Oh, and I want a spot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ironhawk]

Turin said:
TC is weak with the Hammer of the forge lord and ember? And they get two very useful boosters too? I´d say they get top of the line stuff.



Believe it or not, yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You have to remember that I said "relatively weak" not just "weak". Clearly with the HoTFL, TC will be very strong as the game progresses. But in early game, TC is pretty weak just on its own and relatively even weaker when compared to Pythium (with Aurglmier) or Jotunhiem (with Winter Bringer), both of which will significantly speed up thier early province capture rate.


2) ermor:
They are amazingly unbalanced with the sickle at the start.




Indeed, indeed. I actually purposefully unbalanced Ermor because I never allow any pop-killing dominion themes in any of my games - my apologies for not mentioning that earlier (been doing it for so long now I just assume it). So Ermor would only get Broken Empire and therefore needs significant enticement to get people to choose it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Wish]

cealum looks to kind of get screwed to. how many artifacts does each nation actually get to start with, just 1? and those with more than one listed have more than one choice? Maybe slap the sun helmet and sun armor onto cealum as well? I dunno.

I want in on this BTW, unsure what nation, but probably pangaea.

[Ironhawk]

archaeolept said:
just checked to make sure you had gotten rid of the soulstone ;P



Just to jump back to Arch's comment here: Yes I removed the soulstone in the 2nd revision. Its fun, thematically, but I realized that it horribly unbalanced things. Cheap summons that early in the game is just too much power.

In other news I also cut Amon Hotep in the same revision. You could stick that thing on a stupid indy commander and practically have an SC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Substituted in the crown of katafagus so Ctis still gets mummy spawn which I thought was funny and thematic.

[Wish]

an army of mummys can be pretty mean. auto disease their enemies.

[Cainehill]

Ironhawk said:
Just to jump back to Arch's comment here: Yes I removed the soulstone in the 2nd revision. Its fun, thematically, but I realized that it horribly unbalanced things. Cheap summons that early in the game is just too much power.




Heh. I actually think the summoning of the wolves in battle is more useful / powerful - up to 50 turns worth of wolves pouring in from all quarters of the map. Screws up targeting for the mages / archers, and chews them up as well. But yeah, Soulstone was just a bit too powerful - even lategame it's still packs a wallop.

(But I wanted it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[Ironhawk]

Cainehill said:
Soulstone was just a bit too powerful - even lategame it's still packs a wallop.

(But I wanted it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )



Hahahah, yes just so. It is exactly that feeling that made me remove the soulstone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif When I was looking at the list of nations I always kept coming back to the soulstone and pangea as the one I would play. Thats how I knew it had to go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironhawk]

OK! Here we go with, what I believe will be, the last revision of the artifact allotments

Re-Revised Artifact List (v3) (http://67.190.105.206:8080/~quinn/artifact_list_v3.html)

Added a couple of minor items to Atlantis, Caelum, and Pan. Gave Ryleh the Armor of Virtue for sweet Void Gate summoning. Moved the Monolith Armor away from Jotunihiem (I envisioned an invulernable, regenerating Niefel wearing it!!). Additionally, I've added a handful of regular items to boost up the early game of some relatively weaker starting nations - these items are listed in parenthesis.

[shovah]

i like the ring of wizardry in there, if anything it can be used to restore a pretenders magic if he dies. i will probably come in as pythium if possible just because i havnt played them much

[Rathar]

Psst, this idea arose from a small pile of folks looking to play some/a new multi-player game in the multiplayer forum and there is a line!

No cuts!

Heh, I just want to play a game with some random folks instead of all friends (who can guilt me into not slaying them..!)

I'd die quick tho as I haven't finished a MP game yet and have only started two so far.

Rathar

P.S. I very much like the idea of all human pretenders

[shovah]

i use humans anyway, i cant get enough of all the magic. now that i think of it theres alot of nations i wana play: marignon,man,pythium,ctis,caelum,jotunheim,ryleh,a tlantis, vanheim and maybe TC (probably pyth or man)

[Ironhawk]

Rathar said:
Psst, this idea arose from a small pile of folks looking to play some/a new multi-player game in the multiplayer forum and there is a line!



Indeed. Everyone hold off on claiming nations until I start the game thread. Then the feeding frenzy can begin! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Heh, I just want to play a game with some random folks instead of all friends (who can guilt me into not slaying them..!)



Hahahah - No Mercy!! As for the game itself I will most likely put the game thread up tomorrow (wednesday) night. Just want to give everyone a chance to comment on the last round of revisions. Any last words?

[archaeolept]

the sickle is unbalancing...

[Ironhawk]

Even with the restriction of only Broken Empire?? I figured that that would be enough, no?

[archaeolept]

oh, sorry, i didn't notice that restriction. its ok then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironhawk]

This game is now open in the MP forums. Come and pick your nations! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The Artifact Game (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=396664&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=&vc=1&PHPSESSID=)