Frechdachs Game - Finished

[Bluebird]

Ok, after I got my butt kicked in Metzel and Pain, I would like to go forward and open my first own game. I want the game to be rather short and so I use a small map: urgaia


Urgaia Map
15 VPs on the map, 9 to win
Independents: 3
Magic Sites: 60
Common Events
Normal research
Richness: 2
15 HOF entries
Starting Provinces: 1
Renaming Allowed
Master PW set
We start with 24h QH
Conceptual Balance Mod 5.2 ( Link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=383903) )


This is the very first time that I am hosting a game, so I hope that I do not make any major mistakes.

The map says a maximum player number of 6, so that is what I am aiming at. I would like to give Vanheim a try, but I am still open to switch.


Bluebird - Vanheim - e581536d49a7c605c2a3db1c8939ef22
Morkilus - Jotunheim - b335fbbad418a97f2a81ac0f60996684
The_Tauren13 - C'tis - 36e80175bfce18496ed57d69d791bd44
jeffr - Pangaea - 54861c3ed6ad4326c81564c461d4a23c
Dimaz - Ulm - fc0386fe4e2ade02668bc62afafafbd5
quantum_mechani - Pythium - 22dceac0808eea7a4f440395099d6f27


House rules: No Ermor death theme, conceptual balance mod 5.2

Hostname: zoo.in-zueri.ch Port: 8192

<font color="purple">AND THE WINNER IS: Dimaz, playing Ulm</font>

[Ironhawk]

6 players on Urgaia is going to be a bloodbath.

[Bluebird]

... which is exactly what I am aiming at ... that is also why the indies are so weak ... :-)

[archaeolept]

and that would be a problem?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

the worry is more that this turns into a blitz/SC fight - bluebird could consider some house rules, or just go ahead and enjoy the slaughter

[Morkilus]

I wouldn't mind getting another game under my belt... oh wait, I haven't finished a MP game yet. Do you mind inexperienced players? If not, I'd like to try out my Jotun strategy.

[Bluebird]

Naa - would not count myself to be experienced anyway. Yea, I know that this game is close to a slaughter, with strong SCs required. But I hope that it will still result in a fun game.

[The Panther]

This map would need a water nation because of the crowded nature of it. I tried R'lyeh a few months ago and played very poorly. Perhaps I ought to try the fishies again and see if I learned anything.

However, I would not be able to start the game until AFTER I move to Virginia and get settled in on the East Coast. This should be approximately Friday, January 13, or thereabouts. If you must start before then, then count me out. I might get delayed by the Washington bureaucracy, though, so it could be even later. The earliest I will move in is January 11.

Another personal rule I have is that I will not play a game with an Ermor death theme present. If anyone claims that, then I am out. On a tiny crowded map like this, Ermor Ashen Empire would be pretty much unbeatable anyway.

Also, you will want to use the latest Zen mods for game balance. It might be a tad less important on a map so small, but the mods still should be used.

You also did not specify research level, but you probably want normal research because of the fast paced game. Most people are using hard or very hard now since normal research is much too easy in general.

[jeffr]

I agree with using Zen's/Quantum's Conceptual Balance mod. I think it really improves the game.

If you use the mod, I'm in as Pangaea.

I once had a strategy that I've pretty much forgotten, so straight slaughter sounds good to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

I am not planing to use any mods. The CB pretender mod seems to be designed and well suited for longer games. But the immortal Dracolich just seems unfair for a game that is short lived. Of course, I am open for discussion on this point.

I will not start the game before Panther is ready, also I think disallowing Ermor's death theme is fair. I will add this to the house rules.

BTW - happy new year everybody.

[shovah]

turst me definatelty put out ermors death themes, on a small map like this it can be a wasteland before a single player dies

[Bluebird]

Yup - Ermor death theme is out. And I also just see that the latest (5.2) version of the CB mod does not contain the dracolich anymore. So I have no objections to use it. Is this ok with everybody?

[shovah]

i would love to join in here but my current mp obligations tell me not to (btw is pan CW aloud?)

[archaeolept]

yah that immortal drocolich was pretty f**ked up.

[Bluebird]

Ah - I see that CP 5.2 does not have this guy anymore. Then I think we can go for CP 5.2, if noone objects.

[Dimaz]

I can try Ulm.

[quantum_mechani]

Hmm, I can't resist a crowded game like this, I'll take Atlantis.

[Morkilus]

I had no idea about an IMMORTAL DRAGON!?

I'm all for the CB mod, I don't remember how the unmodded game plays anymore. I suspect everyone's going to play real nice with the water nations, since they have access to pretty much anyone at any time. This map is fun.

[shovah]

urgaia is my favourite sp map which is one of the reasons i wish i coul join

[Ironhawk]

Why am I not surprised that jeffr took Pan? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

F9 white centaurs? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[jeffr]

Hey, I'm going to keep taking those forest bastards until I figure out how to win with them here, even if it takes me to Dominions VII! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And I play a kindler, gentler, peace loving Pan these days.

[Bluebird]

Ok, all six slots taken. As always, it is "first come first serve". We will have to wait for Panther, so the game starts whenever he is ready.

Hmm - and that with 4 land and 2 water nations makes it an interesting game.

I will open up the server within the day, you can start to upload your pretenders. Please also PM me an MD5 sum of your pretender, so I can check that I have the right one.

[Morkilus]

Bluebird said:
I will open up the server within the day, you can start to upload your pretenders. Please also PM me an MD5 sum of your pretender, so I can check that I have the right one.



Okay, you've got me completely lost there. MD5? Is that the same as the file size or something?

[jeffr]

Can't we just upload our pretenders once you bring your server online?

And thanks for hosting the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Dimaz]

It'd be good if you put link to used mods in the first post.

[The Panther]

Ok all, I have given up my slot to my son. Therefore, you don't have to delay starting the game, but you can go whenever all are ready.

He will likely pick a different nation than I did.

[The_Tauren13]

If it's cool with you guys, Panther is giving me his spot in this game. I'll be playing C'tis.

[Bluebird]

Ok, updated and the server should be up and receiving pretenders. I will start once everybody has uploaded pretenders.

Also, I have adjusted the number of VP to win by one.

[quantum_mechani]

It is a bit boring all alone in the water, I'll switch to Pythium.

[Morkilus]

I'll load mine in about 9 hours or so.

[jeffr]

pan uploaded.

[Morkilus]

gtg! gogogogogo

sorry, a bit of a Starcraft flashback...

[The_Tauren13]

hf dd gg ka gl

[Bluebird]

Only waiting for quantum_mechani ...

[quantum_mechani]

Sorry, in.

[Bluebird]

Let the games begin !

[jeffr]

turn 2 is up.

[Morkilus]

Turn 3 is up. I thought I checked last night for turns...?

I had a nasty turn 1...

[Bluebird]

How nasty? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif Pretender gone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[Morkilus]

Earthquakes are dumb.

[The Panther]

Let me guess... You took misfortune?

Used to be (before the scale mod) that order/misfortune was automatic. These days, misfortune is a real risk and order does not protect you from events near as well.

[Cainehill]

Eh, I always take luck, and even with Luck-3 I've had labratories or temples destroyed on the first turn. Imagine having to wait to hire a mercenary mage to rebuild the lab, because you took a pretender with no magic? ( As per several Wyrms in Council of Wyrms. )

Even if that isn't the case, having to spend 200 gold on turn 2 to build a new temple or lab is hardly very "lucky" - I'd hope that in Dom3 levels of luck would protect you from a bad event for the first turns. (IE : Luck 1, no bad event on turn 1. Luck 3, no bad events until after turn 3.)

[Morkilus]

I thought one measly pick in Misfortune would be okay with three in Order. Told y'all I was a n00b. Maybe I was just "unlucky" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif or do I have to expect an earthquake every other turn?

I hope the C'tis god is immortal. He/she/it was apparently way more unfortunate in his/her/its first-turn attack.

[Cainehill]

Cainehill said:
Eh, I always take luck, and even with Luck-3 I've had labratories or temples destroyed on the first turn.




Come to think of it, I've also lost 40% of my population in a province on turn 1 or turn 2. So, many of the very worst events can happen on turn 1, regardless of luck.

But - I don't think I've ever seen one of the top-tier events happen on turn one - never the 1000/1500 gold events that bring magic items, and I'm pretty sure I've never even gotten the random mages or whatnot on turn 1.

So - it actually seems to me that the game is coded to prevent the best events from happening right away, but not to prevent the worst events, regardless of luck / misfortune.

Curious if anyone can definately recall getting the uber-events on turn 1, disproving my theory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

I used to take mist 2 always, but not any more. I did get my share of temples &amp; labs burning, as well as hurricanes and immigrations in the furst couple of turns. And now that I have taken a luck scale a few times, the best event I have ever got on Turn 1 is a National Hero.

Those uber 500 or 1000 gold events seem far more rare than the uber bad events, regardless of your luck setting. Order 3 in a province used to mean you rarely got a random event, but that is no longer true with the new scale mods.

[jeffr]

new turn is up

[Morkilus]

new turn

[Morkilus]

new turn (again)

[jeffr]

I noticed the Victory Point graphs were not turned off. They are usually turned off in the game I have played. No bluffing in this game, I guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (Not that I was ever any good at it).

[Bluebird]

Naa - in a game like this, the score graph is all the fun. Otherwise it would be too easy for one party to win.

[Morkilus]

Turn's up again. Maybe I'll check tomorrow morning; we seem to be on-the-ball. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Morkilus]

News from the front...

We have noticed an Ulmian fort, built of all places... in the sea. What this implies for the rest of us remainis unclear. It has been theorized that it is indeed made of Kelp and not black steel-reinforced granite as is typical of Ulm, so therefore is vulnerable to ravenous vegetarians.

In other news, apparently Tritons are very scary. Though our God has yet to face a Triton in combat, apparently his best Priests fear the fishy flesh. Perhaps it is an aversion to the smell? We shall keep the public posted.

[shovah]

i h8 tritons because of their ability to completely slaughter combat gods (even an etheral poison resistant wyrm in positive dominion)

[Dimaz]

It's made of Kelp indeed, but it's not so vulnerable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

I will be away over the weekend, so I have changed the QH to 72h ...

[Morkilus]

Nice job, Pan... predicting where my army was headed. Looks like it's back to square one for me.

[jeffr]

A bit of good luck there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I wasn't too happy about my muted pretender, though.

[Bluebird]

I am planing to 36h QH after the next turn. I think, this gives us a little bit more flexibilty to do 1 turn/day.

Also, is Tauren still with us?

[The_Tauren13]

Yes, Im still here. But, I dont have internet access at my house, so on weekends and in the evenings its kinda hard to do my turns.

[Bluebird]

No Problem, just tell me if you need more time during the weekend, so that I could adjust the hosting time accordingly.

[Morkilus]

you guessed it... turn's up.

[Bluebird]

Somehow this game is just ugly, though not as badly balanced as one might have guessed.

Took long for the first player to leave the game. Bye quantum_mechani, nice to have you on board.

[Dimaz]

Why, funny game I think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

Yea, ugly games are fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[jeffr]

A new turn is up. What is this, a Jotunheim/Vanheim alliance?

I think Ulm and Ctis should attack Jotunheim and Vanheim to even things up a bit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

I don't think, after you badly invaded my territory, that I am a big threat to anyone. Lets see if I can find a weapon against your white centaurs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[shovah]

1 word: powerfulspellsthattargetsingleunits . ok that was kind of more than one word but i fitted it in

[archaeolept]

magma

[jeffr]

Whoa, the treacherous Vanheim attacked me first:) I had to counter invade as a matter of honor.

But you seem to take back your provinces on the next turn, anyway. Raidng groups of a paltry 3 White Centaurs are no match for 40 Skin Shifters and Cow (or Herd?) men.

This is a fun game. It's moving fast, which is great. Now I just have to do something about my abysmal research. Fighting with sticks doesn't cut it.

[shovah]

while raids of 3 men dont win provinces unless he masses ranged units those centaurs will most likely make their cost back giving you an economical advantage (unless he avoids them allowing you to cut into him)

[jeffr]

New turn.

[jeffr]

New turn.

Has anyone noticed that Ulm is about to win on VPs? I think that we should gang up on Ulm for a little while, at least until we take a few of his VPs away.

If I'm forced to defend my capital, then Ulm might win very soon.

[Bluebird]

Sure, jeffr, lets bash Ulm into the grounds - if you let me breathe, that is. Thats why I made the stats visible in the first place ;-)

Other question: After this game, I would like to start a new one. I think the settings for this game were quite nice, but I would be open to suggestions for a new game. Did you like the game ? Which map next ? How many players ?

BTW - I am not a big fan of complicated setups (with lots of house rules)

[Morkilus]

This game was fun... I'm up for a small game again, much more manageable.

[Dimaz]

I'm with you guys! Let's take him out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
lol

[The Panther]

The problem with small, crowded maps is the high importance of the starting position. I mean, how on earth did Ulm start all alone on the eastern continent with all other 5 nations on the western side? It is already too late to stop him from winning and the game will be over soon, I predict. QM sure should have stayed in the water as Atlantis to make it a little more balanced than it was.

Watching this game from the C'tis viewpoint has been very enjoyable. It does seem like a fun format indeed. Though, with the extreme high-speed pace of the game, I would have staled even more than my son did...

Bluebird: As for suggestions on the next game, I have found that Inland (or perhaps Desert Eye to allow for water nations) with about 10 people is the best overall game. As long as there is a decent victory condition, that is. Being wrap-around, the luck of the starting positions is much less than it is on maps with edges.

[Dimaz]

Yes, the start was very unbalanced. I suggest Inland too.

[jeffr]

Sure, I'm in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[jeffr]

I managed to defeat the small army that Ulm put agains t me. I've pointed my force against the big Ulm X next to me. He outnumberes by at least 3 to 1, but I've ordered the charge of the Rohimmrin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The_Tauren13]

Count me in for another game on Inland.

[Morkilus]

I will be out of town from Thursday morning (GMT-7) to Sunday afternoon. This means I will need a sub for this game. Any takers? I don't require uber-skillz, simply PM me and I will give approximate instructions. I hope to return the favor someday. (I really need to get a laptop)

Edit: Found a sub!

[jeffr]

Well, my cavalry charge ran into an Ulmish iron wall with disastrous results for the good guys. It looks like it's up to Jotunheim and Vanheim, now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Morkilus]

So, master of Centaurs... does this REALLY mean we are in a truce now?

[Dimaz]

Hm, your priests still managed to kill that hundred undead horseman. I thought they'll "live" a bit longer. Doesn't matter actually, with current death income.
Also I hope Jotun will honor our NAP and that little fight was just a misunderstanding (he attacked the prov owned by Pangaea).
Anyway good luck guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Morkilus]

uh-oh. Now I'm dreading checking the turn. My sub might not have much to do by Thursday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

How can Ulm own special troops of C'tis and R'lyeh, specially for summoning Void monsters ?

[Oversway]

Enslave mind/charm/hellbind heart? Or succubus, tartarian chains, or that one demon lord?

Also, I think there is a site (the crator) that lets you recruit ryleh starspawn troops... maybe that + gift of reason?

Thats all I can think of...

[Dimaz]

C'tis mages and units
Hm, I don't know actually, but somehow I can recruit them in C'tis capital. Maybe it's a bug. Maybe not. I think it's because he uses death theme, and it doesn't work on main C'tis.
R'lyeh
Simple. The "House in the mist" site. You'll see a guy that became feebleminded there, this turn.

[jeffr]

Jotunheim just told me he is going to end my annoying existence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

He just might, but I'm more concerned about Ulm and his VPs. Not sure what to do about it, though.

[Dimaz]

You can always surrender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Bluebird]

1 VP to go ... I think we can all start congratulating Dimaz to this one. And I would like to thank everybody for participating.

It was very much fun.

I am open for suggestions on a new map. I had though about Inland, but a game has just started with this map (where I participate) and I would like a different one. Karan or Orania might be good.

[jeffr]

New turn.

Surrender? Ho, ho, ho http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[RonD]

New turn.

[jeffr]

new turn

[RonD]

and still this game refuses to die...

new turn

[Morkilus]

new turn for all who care... buah ha haa!!

[Bluebird]

Another question: I is Pythium (the province) dead for me ? I don't get any income, I can hire any troop ? Is that normal for capitals ?

[Bluebird]

Congrats Dimaz, this was a great game.

I will keep my server running for a little longer, so you can visit the final scene. Then I would like to stop it to make way for a new game.

[Dimaz]

If you're interested I can compile a small AAR of this game. My English is not so great, but I can try.

[The Panther]

Bluebird said:
Congrats Dimaz, this was a great game.

I will keep my server running for a little longer, so you can visit the final scene. Then I would like to stop it to make way for a new game.



Just to let everyone know, Ulm had no password. I have been occasionally watching his turns for the past couple of weeks after I discovered this fact. He played the strong hand he was dealt extremely well, in my opinion. You can see his winning position on the server. It was an amazing use of the powerful Ulm national troops combined with a strong Cyclops pretender (who never did lose his one eye).

Also, if you wait to start the new game until AFTER I get settled into my new home in Virginia sometime next week, I am interested in a fast game like this one was.

[Bluebird]

Sure - go ahead ... I would love to read it.

[jeffr]

Congrats, Dimaz!

[Bluebird]

Next round opened - see Schlitzohr thread ...

[Dimaz]

So, here is the promised AAR.

Nation choice

I had several reasons to choose Ulm. First, I just got smashed by Ulm in Artifacts game and wanted to show that Ulm can play well even without Gatestone. Second, Ulm is one of the few nations I played in MP before. Third, Ulm seems strong with these map settings

Pretender design

Ulm has no sacreds, so bless strategy is unavailable. Cyclop seemed very good for this game because he can take provinces by himself from turn 1 and a good SC in middle-game. But even Cyclop cannot win the wars, so I decided to put more points in scales then in pretender. Also Ulm troops are very expensive resource-wise, so I decided to take Wizard’s Tower as a castle (I wanted to build second castle on turn 5-6, also extra admin). So I ended with 33-1123. Now it was time to choose magic paths. E3 default, W2 for quickness and going underwater – important for Urgaia, N2 for personal regen and searching and forging regen-reinvigor items.
Some minuses in this design: no teleport (although I had a thought of empowering with air from the beginning), vulnerability to eye loss (regen helps here).

Game and research plan.

I made couple 10-turn tests before the start and figured following plan:
First turn forging boots with trample with pretender, then attacking on turn 2 and then search-attack-search etc. Attacking with initial army and building reinforcements/second army (well, it’s not unusual I think). Researching Quickness, Personal Regen, Constr 4.
After first 10 turns it’s not so easy to plan exactly, but general research priorities were lamps for research (constr 6), summon earthpower, bladewind, then royalties and artifacts.

The game itself

First turns went close to the plan. Then I noticed Obscuro (air mage) among the mercenaries, and that was really the turning point. I bought him and found some a sites and then very soon I found site with AS sorceresses. Almost at this time I found sages on the “neck” province that connects left and right halves of the map. And it was the time when I realized that I was alone on the right half. So I decided “hm, I can actually win in this game”.
The first sorceress had a death pick and she found the site with necromancers at the same province. And soon my death income was greater then earth. So I made some death skulls that give +9 research and it was a real boost with my 5-research smiths. It was the time of war with C’tis that fought very well and resisted for some time, but my armies of x-bowmen and necromancers with death staff, boots of messenger and girdle of might were stronger.
Well, then it was not so hard. I figured that I can hire tomb guards and FD mages in C’tis and there was a province with Jade amazons near, so I researched Ench6 (relief, undead archers, statues) and built many of them.
Some interesting moments.
After I researched Fire arrows I empowered one of the smiths to F2 and then realized that light infantry is very powerful with f.a., and with mod I was able to buy 30 of them in 1 turn for 150 gold! They really helped me.
The first wound received by Cyclop was the chest wound. After that it was hard to use him in big battles because of fatigue. I gave him boots of messenger and amulet of resilience, and also he had summon earthpower, but even then it was impossible to use quickness, until I forged blood heart.

[Bluebird]

Thanks for the AAR, Dimaz - lots of good points to remember for my future Ulm games.

[Oversway]

N2 for personal regen



Not sure if this is cb mod, but the fatigue cost for personal regen is 40. I've found that using that with just the minimum level tires my SCs out too much. I take it this wasn't as much of a problem for you. I wonder what the trick is (other than loading up on nature magic)... did you just forge a ring?

[Morkilus]

I thought for sure Vanheim was on the East side with you. I guess I really had no chance. It was fun, though.

[Dimaz]

Oversway said:

N2 for personal regen



Not sure if this is cb mod, but the fatigue cost for personal regen is 40. I've found that using that with just the minimum level tires my SCs out too much. I take it this wasn't as much of a problem for you. I wonder what the trick is (other than loading up on nature magic)... did you just forge a ring?



Well, it's a problem actually, and I used several ways. First I searched for nature from turn 3 with Cyclop, so I had some gems to forge boots of messenger and resilience amulet. Then I made scripts like &lt;Summon Earthpower&gt;&lt;P.Regen&gt;&lt;Hold&gt;&lt;Hold&gt;&lt;Hold&gt; (he had chest wound, so quickness was no-no). Then I forged Heart with reinvigor (it's particularly useful when you already have a wound). And when I forged Lucky Coin (interesting idea to put it in Constr 6) I changed pendant of Luck for Ring of Regen IIRC, anyway regen from spell was too weak and was useful only as protection from the eye wound.

[Oversway]

Thanks for the explanation.

[Bluebird]

Morkilus said:
I thought for sure Vanheim was on the East side with you. I guess I really had no chance. It was fun, though.



Well - I used Vanheims special abilities to conquer Ulm territory a couple of times. I knew that Ulm was the major and most dangerous competitor, so I tried to slow down his progress. Unfortunately then I was getting the problems with some white centaurs, so I had to stop this effort. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Dimaz]

Yes, I think you still had the chance to ally against me while I was fighting with C'tis, and then it was already too late.

[quantum_mechani]

Oversway said:

N2 for personal regen



Not sure if this is cb mod, but the fatigue cost for personal regen is 40. I've found that using that with just the minimum level tires my SCs out too much. I take it this wasn't as much of a problem for you. I wonder what the trick is (other than loading up on nature magic)... did you just forge a ring?

It has always been that much fatigue.