Clash Of Armies [Started]

[WraithLord]

I want to try and create a game that will favor large armies to SC tactics.
I was thinking that a good settings for that game might be:

Map Neo Pangaea, small
Starting Provinces 1
Indy strength 9
Magic Sites 25
Richness double
Events Common
Graphs Enabled
HoF 15
Research Very Difficult
Master password Enabled
Renaming Allowed
Cheat Prevention Active
Mods Zen 5.2
House rules:
1. Blood hunting is prohibited. The map settings give an unfair advantage to blood hunting nations being the reason for this rule. Since Mictlan needs to blood sacrifice for spreading dominions they are an exception to this rule. Mictlan is allowed to blood hunt but are prohibited from blood research and the forging of items that require blood slaves (with the exception of the jade knife).

2. Water nations are banned. The water nations have an unfair advantage on this map.

In any case, once the settings are decided I intend to PBEM host this game.
I aim for this to be a slow paced game, something like 48h hosting or fixed hosting of three to four times a week.
The game will have a master password.

Oh and this first I'm hosting a game so please bear until I get the hang of it.

Eleven Players
WraithLord: Arco
Folket: Mictlan Pretender received
RonD: Pangaea Pretender received
Reverend Zombie: Pythium Pretender received
castigated: Ulm
Cainehill: Jotun Pretender received
The Panther: Ctis Pretender received
OG_Gleep->Shova->???: Vahnheim Pretender received
Oversway: Marignon Pretender received
Nah27: Ermor, broken empire Pretender received
Shmonk: Man Pretender received

If you like epic, large scale battles than by all means join this game:)

Currently, considering The Panthers request the game is scheduled to start next tuesday. You can send your pretenders to izaqyos@gmail.com.

Players, please give me your email.
Don't forget the create your pretenders with balance mod 5.2 and with a password!

The game is scheduled to begin next Tuesday, 21/02 at 10:30PM, GMT+2.

[Ironhawk]

I would play but the hosting schedule is too slow for me - I'm looking for 24hr.

On the topic of SCs are you looking to take them out completely? Or just make them relatively less common?

[Folket]

Surly I would like to join. Playing mictlan.

[RonD]

Slow works for me.

I'll claim Marignon.

I do worry that the low gem setting will favor blood, but I'm sure the real number crunchers will weigh in on the topic before long.

[Ygorl]

The rich world might soften the blood advantage a bit, though, as the bloodhunters will have to sacrifice more income in order to hunt (this is my intuition, at least...)

[Oversway]

Low gem does favor blood, and very difficult research also gives a boost (since you only have to research blood and perhaps construction paths).

On such a small map, I think a higher gem setting might help. The idea is you won't get into high enough research levels to be summoning lots of scs before the game is over.

On the other hand, lots of gems may mean lots of spell casters and low level summons. Which may not be what you had in mind.

Another option is a mod that disables all the magic above level four. I recall there was an mp game with that, you can probably get the mod from that thread.

[archaeolept]

its hard to say how much having rich world will counteract the bias towards blood from having vd research and low gems... not enough, I would wager.

OTOH, vd research very much favours undead themes; however they will be hurt by not gaining the advantages of a rich world... so that part should balance fine.

[WraithLord]

@Ironhawk, I want SCs to be less common, by making their summons and equipping more difficult and less cost effective. Sorry this pace is not good for you.

@Oversay, Do you think this is a small map?- It does after all have 267 provinces.
I think low level summons and spells are ok. I want to limit the effectiveness of SCs, so that big, balanced armies are more common. I prefer not to limit the magic levels.
Maybe, to completely eliminate the problem, this game shall ban blood nations or themes?

EDIT:
Also, with low magic settings, wouldn't there be less gems for forging the items for blood nations SCs?- So that even if they do focus on blood and construction they should be hard pressed to equip their SCs.

[Cainehill]

Still definately favors the blood nations - their summoned unique demons don't need much in equipment compared to what anyone else will be able to put on the field. Blood hunting hurts their income, sure - but they have more income than a normal game.

Similarly, as archaeolept points out, VD research helps the death themes a lot, as the spells necessary to fight them effectively won't come into play before they can get huge hordes of undead going.

Might want to ban the blood nations / death themes, just to keep things balanced.

[castigated]

i'm definitely down for playing ulm.

[Nah27]

Hmm, I'd like to try playing as a broken empire (base theme) ermor, assuming there's still space.

[Oversway]

@Oversway, Do you think this is a small map?- It does after all have 267 provinces.




My mistake, I misread the map name.

[Cainehill]

I'll take the mighty mighty Jotuns in this one.

[The Panther]

I am pretty sure that blood is overpowered on these settings. The rich world helps blood hunting in two ways:
1. You can take additional provinces out of circulation because the remaining provinces produce extra gold for you.
2. You can buy the blood mages a lot quicker than usual.

I think that the answer is quite simple. Simply ban ALL blood-hunting for ALL nations. This would even allow you to drop the magic site settings to a number lower than 30 to really reduce the power of SCs and big spells.

This would make Mictlan totally unplayable and Abysia would be badly crippled. The Marignon Diaboloical Faith theme is unplayable as well. As for Jontunheim and Vanheim, they are hurt somewhat without blood hunting, but both are still playable.

I suspect that the given game settings favor Abysia because they can get nice national troops from the rich world and will still be able to blood hunt like crazy for the mass devils. Blood magic will rule this game under the proposed settings.

Actually, I will claim Abysia under the given settings to prove (or disprove!) my theory. I really like the 48 hour pace, though I would ask to delay the game start until next Tuesday when I move into my apartment in Virignia.

[The Panther]

Oh, and one other thing. You need a victory condition of some sort.

[Reverend Zombie]

I'd like to give Pythium a whirl here.

[OG_Gleep]

I'll take Van if theres still room.

[Oversway]

I'd like to try Rlyeh. If you don't want sea nations, I will pick Pan

[RonD]

I kind of like the idea of banning blood hunting (given what you want to accomplish, anyway).

That said, I will withdraw my choice of Marignon, and switch to Atlantis.

Here's one more thing to ponder: I am currently playing in a 6-player small map game with 25% sites and a rich world. The low sites setting gives a huge advantage to the owner of a gem-producing global. With 5 remaining players in that game, at least its somewhat a matter of choice whether to put one up or not. With 17 players, it could be mostly a race to get the 3 or 4 really useful gem spells. Would it be worth banning those, also?

And, one last bit - I agree with Panther about needing a VP or province-based victory condition.

[Cainehill]

True - Man or Pangaea could easily rush for Alt-5 for Mother Oak, giving them a big leg up compared to other nations. ( In 56 turns, with a N4 pretender searching 25 provinces, zero nature sites found. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[Peacekeeper]

i would like to take up the cause of the Tien Chi

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:
I am pretty sure that blood is overpowered on these settings. The rich world helps blood hunting in two ways:
1. You can take additional provinces out of circulation because the remaining provinces produce extra gold for you.
2. You can buy the blood mages a lot quicker than usual.

I think that the answer is quite simple. Simply ban ALL blood-hunting for ALL nations. This would even allow you to drop the magic site settings to a number lower than 30 to really reduce the power of SCs and big spells.

This would make Mictlan totally unplayable and Abysia would be badly crippled. The Marignon Diaboloical Faith theme is unplayable as well. As for Jontunheim and Vanheim, they are hurt somewhat without blood hunting, but both are still playable.

I suspect that the given game settings favor Abysia because they can get nice national troops from the rich world and will still be able to blood hunt like crazy for the mass devils. Blood magic will rule this game under the proposed settings.

Actually, I will claim Abysia under the given settings to prove (or disprove!) my theory. I really like the 48 hour pace, though I would ask to delay the game start until next Tuesday when I move into my apartment in Virignia.



I agree with your reasoning. I think that for this game to be balanced it should ban all blood hunting. I also agree that the magic site setting can be lowered, I think 25% might do as it is nearly half of the default settings.

@Folket, under this house rule Mictlan becomes useless. I'm sorry for this and I hope you can choose another nation
instead. I'll also PM you to make sure you get this ASAP.

About the gem generating globals, a clam hoarding nation such as pythium or atlantis can easily dispel them, striking an interesting balance between those two methods of generating gems and respectively between the nations that are most likely to use them.

[RonD]

WraithLord said:

About the gem generating globals, a clam hoarding nation such as pythium or atlantis can easily dispel them, striking an interesting balance between those two methods of generating gems and respectively between the nations that are most likely to use them.



At 10 water + 10 astral per clam (or even at 7+7 with a hammer) I doubt there will be a big rush to hoard. Which is fine by me, as I've never hoarded clams regardless of the settings.

[Morkilus]

RonD said:
At 10 water + 10 astral per clam (or even at 7+7 with a hammer) I doubt there will be a big rush to hoard. Which is fine by me, as I've never hoarded clams regardless of the settings.



Obviously not, since they cost 10 water, 5 nature... no astral.

[Nah27]

Wraithlord, did you miss my post earlier, or is broken empire ermor not allowed? Assuming you missed it, I'd still like to play them.

[RonD]

Silly me. I'd been playing in the Rand game so long that I forgot it was created before cb5.0. It was the collection of separate mods (and in that one, clams were 10w/10s).

Either way, I still abhor hoarding and am all in favor of outright banning it.

[Morkilus]

I don't see how it's overpowered or broken... if you suspect someone's spending all their resources on clams, why not go trash them before they can "cash in"?

[shovah]

or disrupt their clamming with raids

[Cainehill]

Yeah - land nations do really well raiding R'lyeh, and other clammers who are smart enough to stay behind walls. Besides - it isn't necessarily that easy to see who is or is not clamming.

Note that I didn't read where RonD said clamming was "overpowered or broken" - just that he abhored it. Personally I'd hope to see big old battles in this game - what good are clams and astral given VD research making Wish almost unattainable? The clams probably will be needed to take down the Mother Oak and other gem income spells though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[shovah]

true, and i hope someone finds hoburgs to gang up on any jotuns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Wish]

I'll come in as machaka

[shovah]

and blind everyones armies! i hope machaka wins http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[The Panther]

Hey, I am really liking these settings with the blood ban!

However, my original choice of Abysia is now unplayable. I will therefore switch to C'tis.

Since I may be snowed-in in Nashville on my way east, I should have plenty of time to work out a super-duper Pretender!

[Wish]

Actually, Strike that, I'll go with marignon since it is now free

[Shmonk]

I'll give Man a try.

[Peacekeeper]

/edit so it is so, whoops.

[Shmonk]

I believe C'tis is already taken (Panther has it, 3 replies before yours).

[Wish]

actually after playing around with the settings, I think I'm going to sit this one out.

[castigated]

if you click on my name, you bring up my profile, which has my email address. if that doesn't work, let me know.

[Folket]

I will still play mictlan, even though I'm not allowed to blood hunt.

[castigated]

f9 jags ftw?

[WraithLord]

Peacekeeper said:
ive reconsidered and would like to play ctis if it is still available(i think it is?)

/edit also i added my email to my profile.


I'm sorry but Panther claimed C'tis before you.

[WraithLord]

Wish_For_Blood_Slaves said:
actually after playing around with the settings, I think I'm going to sit this one out.

May I ask why? Is it because the settings are not to your liking?

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:
Oh, and one other thing. You need a victory condition of some sort.

I agree. Do you think that 150 provinces is a good VC?

If anyone has a good suggestion for VC please feel free to post it.

[The Panther]

Folket said:
I will still play mictlan, even though I'm not allowed to blood hunt.



You really cannot play Mictlan. You MUST have blood slaves to sacrifice in order to spread your dominion. With only the starting 3 slaves from your capitol to sacrifice, you will lose quickly to lack of dominion. The map is big enough that it may take 40-50 turns for this to happen, but it is inevitable.

Even Abysia is not as bad as Mictlan under a blood hunting ban.

[The Panther]

WraithLord said:

The Panther said:
Oh, and one other thing. You need a victory condition of some sort.

I agree. Do you think that 150 provinces is a good VC?

If anyone has a good suggestion for VC please feel free to post it.



Provinces is great! But 150 seems high. If a player has this many provinces, then:
1. He has intense micromanagement pain.
2. He had it won already long ago!

However, on such a large map, that is probably only a little bit high.

[Wish]

I just played around with some test ideas, and I wasn't enjoying it

[RonD]

I'm sure we could accomodate Mictlan and stay within the spirit of the rules. For that nation, we simply outlaw blood research and the forging of items that require slaves.

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:
Provinces is great! But 150 seems high. If a player has this many provinces, then:
1. He has intense micromanagement pain.
2. He had it won already long ago!

However, on such a large map, that is probably only a little bit high.


Half the map than, 130 provinces.


I'm sure we could accomodate Mictlan and stay within the spirit of the rules. For that nation, we simply outlaw blood research and the forging of items that require slaves.

Makes sense. This can work for the other nations as well.

[Cainehill]

Better to just ban blood, and leave Mictlan out, simpler that way. Then, anyone gets a blood item (random event giving blood stone, lifelong protection, devil contract, etc) they contact the guy with the master password, so _that_ person knows they have it, and didn't break the rules.

[WraithLord]

Cainehill said:
Better to just ban blood, and leave Mictlan out, simpler that way. Then, anyone gets a blood item (random event giving blood stone, lifelong protection, devil contract, etc) they contact the guy with the master password, so _that_ person knows they have it, and didn't break the rules.


I agree with this reasoning. However, Folket has expressed his wish to play as Mictlan even considering the huge disadvantage they have under the game's settings. I think there shouldn't be a problem with respecting that wish.

[The Panther]

Hey, I am sorry but my computer is packed away somewhere and I am going from city to city on my laptop. So - I don't have the map on my laptop, and I am not sure where to get it.

Can someone attach the map file or put up a link? Thanks in advance.

On the subject of Mictlan: I think Folket is somewhat of a rookie and maybe didn't know about the dominion spread problem. Also, every single Mictlan mage comes with blood magic, which is a huge waste of skills when blood hunting is not allowed. His Mictlan priests can't even cast any combat blood spells without blood slaves (the ONLY worthwhile thing they can do is research). I think he would be an easy kill for any of his neighbors under the given rules if he sticks with Mictlan (even with F9 warriors).

[Peacekeeper]

http://tnahcem.ifrance.com/

from the maps/mods forum =)

[Oversway]

With fountain of blood you get an extra 3 per turn. If you go for a dual or triple bless, you don't want to push dominion too much anyways.

[RonD]

I haven't downloaded the map yet (I'll wait till I get back to work, rather than cramming a giant .tga through my dailup line). But - I did just read over in the maps forum that people think neopangea gives too big an advantage to water nations.

I bring it up to allow folks (or the host, who would have the final say) to ponder whether or not to allow the water nations.

If y'all do decide we should all go dry, Oversway already claimed Pan as a backup. Near as I can Machaka is still open, so I'd take that if I need to abandon Atlantis.

[Folket]

Good point Panther, perhaps I will take a dominion 10 fountain of blood...

[WraithLord]

RonD said:
I haven't downloaded the map yet (I'll wait till I get back to work, rather than cramming a giant .tga through my dailup line). But - I did just read over in the maps forum that people think neopangea gives too big an advantage to water nations.

I bring it up to allow folks (or the host, who would have the final say) to ponder whether or not to allow the water nations.

If y'all do decide we should all go dry, Oversway already claimed Pan as a backup. Near as I can Machaka is still open, so I'd take that if I need to abandon Atlantis.


Good point. The fact that both water nations are taken helps to mitigate that advantage. I think its ok to keep the water nations, however, if more people think that water should be banned then so be it.

[Cainehill]

Ouch! Looking at the map, I definately think the water nations should be eliminated. Not only do the water provinces have a _lot_ of mobility, but essentially the two water nations would have 25 water provinces each to expand into, while land nations only have 14.46 provinces.

Normally there should be fewer water provinces per water player than land provinces per land player, since the aquatics expand onto land a lot more easily than most land nations can get into water.

[WraithLord]

OK, As I see it we have two options. Either eliminate the water nations or change the map.

Of the two options I prefer to keep the water nations but change the map.

How about Faerun, small edition?

[Oversway]

This map is pretty cool. So I slightly lean towards ditching the water nations. Either way I'm looking forward to this game.

[Shmonk]

I've not played on either map before. So switching maps or ditching the water nations are both fine by me.

[Cainehill]

Faerun is just too big, even the small version. Hate to ask for water nations to be banned after people chose them, but... I'd vote for keeping the Neo-Pangaea map.

[Oversway]

It doesn't bother me too much, and it sounded like RonD was open to not having water nations. Lets just make a decision soon -- if I'm playing another nation, I'd like some time to do some test games with the settings.

[Cainehill]

There are several land nations open, so going land-only seems like the optimal course of action.

[Shmonk]

So let's go for no water nations, just so they can get a pretender created for another nation and tested. That's my vote.

[WraithLord]

OK. Water nations are banned from this game.

I'm sorry about that RonD and Oversay, but the advantage for water nations on this map is too big.
Please change your choice to one of the open land nations.

The game is scheduled to begin next Tuesday at 10:30 PM GMT+2. So you will both have time to experiment with the settings.

[Oversway]

I said Pan earlier but I think I'm going to go for Marignon instead.

[OG_Gleep]

I sent in my e-mail. Did you get it?

[Peacekeeper]

id like to withdraw if its still possible. I got my spot in Titans and am more interested in the random nations game.

[RonD]

Sorry for the delay - it was a hectic day at work.

I'll go ahead and pick Pan for my dry choice.

[WraithLord]

OG_Gleep said:
I sent in my e-mail. Did you get it?


Didn't get it. Did you send it to izaqyos@gmail.com?

Another thing. I have a filter for this game. The subject has to contain "COA" somewhere for it to work.
So please in the mails you send to me regarding the game put this as part of the subject.

[OG_Gleep]

No, I PM'ed you. I'll e-mail you now.

[Cainehill]

Mine has also been emailed.

[Shmonk]

Mine will be sent tonight or tomorrow.

[WraithLord]

It seems to me like we are good to go. Just don't forget to send your pretenders (with password, and COA in the subject).
The game will start on Tuesday when Panther will be able to play.

[The Panther]

WraithLord said:
It seems to me like we are good to go. Just don't forget to send your pretenders (with password, and COA in the subject).
The game will start on Tuesday when Panther will be able to play.



Tuesday has come and gone, so I am good to go whenever we are ready.

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:

WraithLord said:
It seems to me like we are good to go. Just don't forget to send your pretenders (with password, and COA in the subject).
The game will start on Tuesday when Panther will be able to play.



Tuesday has come and gone, so I am good to go whenever we are ready.


Oh, So I guess there was an unfortunate misunderstanding. I thought you meant this Tuesday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Great then, we are ready to go as soon as all of the pretenders are in. I am missing the following pretenders,
Folket: Mictlan
Reverend Zombie: Pythium
castigated: Ulm
OG_Gleep: Vahnheim
Nah27: Ermor, broken empire
Shmonk: Man

Also, Pasha has gracefully agreed to create the game and put the master password in place. Once all of the pretenders are in the game will start.

[Oversway]

Maybe we should email/pm the players to make sure they havn't forgotten about this.

[Reverend Zombie]

WraithLord said:

The Panther said:

WraithLord said:
It seems to me like we are good to go. Just don't forget to send your pretenders (with password, and COA in the subject).
The game will start on Tuesday when Panther will be able to play.



Tuesday has come and gone, so I am good to go whenever we are ready.


Oh, So I guess there was an unfortunate misunderstanding. I thought you meant this Tuesday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Great then, we are ready to go as soon as all of the pretenders are in. I am missing the following pretenders,
Folket: Mictlan
Reverend Zombie: Pythium
castigated: Ulm
OG_Gleep: Vahnheim
Nah27: Ermor, broken empire
Shmonk: Man

Also, Pasha has gracefully agreed to create the game and put the master password in place. Once all of the pretenders are in the game will start.



You should have mine (Pyth) now; let me know if it did not get through.

[WraithLord]

It did. Thanks!

Good suggesion about PMing the players.

[OG_Gleep]

You'll have mine tonight. I need to rethink a couple of things.

[Folket]

I have sent mine.

[Shmonk]

Just sent mine.

[OG_Gleep]

I am almost positive Nah27 went out of town this weekend.

[OG_Gleep]

Looks like I am going to have to send it in tomorrow. Have only gotten 5 minutes per sitting at my computer tonight. My daughters birthday is tomorrow, so I'll be busy starting at about noon. I may be able to get it out in the morning, if not then when I get home tomorrow night.

[WraithLord]

NP OG_Gleep. We'll also wait for Nah27. This is an easy paced low stress game afterall http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I have updated the status on pretenders received in the first post.

[OG_Gleep]

NP. I think I like my setup now a lot better. I just notice Castigated was in on this game as well. He went out of town as well hehe. Since I have a little time till they get back, I am going to use it to tweak it a little.

[OG_Gleep]

Pretender sent.

[Folket]

I'm pretty certain I have sent mine.

[WraithLord]

Amost ready to go. Only pretender still missing is Castigated's Ulm. Please send it ASAP so that we can finally start.

[WraithLord]

It seems like castigated is out of town for this week.

So if no one objects I will start the game w/o him.

Sorry about that casitgated but the game was scheduled to begin this Tuesday and you haven't sent your pretender yet.

[Cainehill]

Works for me - I didn't want to suggest it, but was thinking it.

[OG_Gleep]

Replacement?

[Shmonk]

If we get a replacement, it would have to be quick, so we can start today. Though I'm happy w/o getting a replacement. As long as we start it soon!!

[RonD]

If we wait to advertise for a replacement and then wait for the replacement to send in a pretender, then we may as well wait for castigated to return.

I'm fine either way - though I may be more patient than most.

[Folket]

start the game.

[WraithLord]

I have already sent the pretender files for Pasha to generate the game and put the master password in place.
As soon as its done the game will have been started.

I think we've already waited more than enough for this game to begin. It is about time we get it going.

[PashaDawg]

First turn files have been sent to Wraithlord.

I have hidden the master password in a secret place on my computer.

Good luck to all and have fun!

[Oversway]

Thanks Pasha and Wraithlord. I look forward to this game. Maybe as a prize, the winner will get to find out where the secret place on Pasha's computer is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Shmonk]

Yes, thank you both.

And perfect timing for me, I just got vanquished in my Swarm over Loemendor game, so I'm ready to start this next game.

[WraithLord]

Many thanks Pasha!

Ok, so we're finally good to go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I'll send turn #1 at 10:30 PM GMT+2.

[WraithLord]

Turn 1 sent.
Good luck to everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Next hosting will be on Friday 10:30 PM GMT+2.

[RonD]

Thanks for setting this up and for hosting!

[Folket]

I noticed now that I do not have the neopangea map. Where do I get it?

[Shmonk]

I believe under the Scenarios, Maps, and Mods forum there is a thread about Neopangea. And the link is in there.

[PashaDawg]

Use the small version of the map!

[WraithLord]

Take it from here: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=397335&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

[OG_Gleep]

The only complaint I have about this map is the transition between sea and land. Some places ...there is water yet its still considered land. It makes for planning routes difficult.

[WraithLord]

Maybe you can report it in the above thread so the map maker can fix those.

[Cainehill]

Did the turn run last night? If so, I didn't receive the email.

[Oversway]

Next hosting will be on Friday 10:30 PM GMT+2.



Isn't it scheduled for tonight? Or am I confused with time zone translations?

[Cainehill]

Oh. Heh. No, I'm confused by day-of-week - happens when you're working 6-7 days a week in a home office. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[WraithLord]

It is scheduled for tonight. I guess 48h hosting can be a bit confusing. For now I suggest that we keep it that way but later in the game we can switch to fixed hosting like on Sat. Mon. and Wed.

Oh and tonight is GMT+2 so translated to PST for example it 12:30 PM.

[castigated]

yeah, really sorry guys. i thought i had withdrawn from any games starting while i was away, but i apparently forgot about this one :\

gooluck everyone!

[WraithLord]

Turn number 2 sent.

[Shmonk]

Did I win yet??

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Reverend Zombie]

Shmonk said:
Did I win yet??

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



Shmonkey!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[WraithLord]

Oversay will be out of town from wednesday evening until saturday evening. He has requested that we delay the hosting so that he doesn't stale. I am for that, unless there are stern objections...

[RonD]

With that travel schedule and the current (early) stage of the game, it seems you could host Tuesday, Thursday (with oversway sending his turn Tuesday night or Wednesday morning), and Sunday.

Would that work for him?

[Tnahcem]

OG_Gleep said:
The only complaint I have about this map is the transition between sea and land. Some places ...there is water yet its still considered land. It makes for planning routes difficult.



Hi!
Could you please tell me the provinces I should fix?
(I'm the author of the map).

And hope you'll enjoy fighting on Neopangea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif .

[WraithLord]

RonD said:
With that travel schedule and the current (early) stage of the game, it seems you could host Tuesday, Thursday (with oversway sending his turn Tuesday night or Wednesday morning), and Sunday.

Would that work for him?


That makes sense. Oversay?

[OG_Gleep]

I have noticed a couple things, but let me get a few more games on it to give you a complete report.

I do really dig this map tho, next to CoD, its the most pleasing on the eyes imho.

[Oversway]

Works for me. I sent the next turn in already (for thursday). Pasha agreed to sub but it seems that I could get my saturday turn in late saturday night (maybe technicaly early morning sunday), so I told him not to bother. If we want to host sunday evening instead, that is fine as well.

[WraithLord]

Turn #5 sent.

[Oversway]

Just sent my .2h file, maybe it is not too late to host tonight, despite the email. Thanks for waiting, everyone.

[WraithLord]

Turn 6 has been sent.

[OG_Gleep]

Anyone else not having an easy time?

[RonD]

Strength 9 indies is something you really have to plan around. Stick to taking out provinces with only some combination of militia, infantry, archers, and light cav. Avoid heavy cav, crossbows, and knights until you are sure you're strong enough to take them.

[OG_Gleep]

LoL I did.

[WraithLord]

Turn 9 sent.

[RonD]

Guess I staled, then - I was thinking the deadline was tomorrow.

[WraithLord]

@RonD, I am sorry that you have staled and I hope my previous status message wasn't confusing. If you recall I have said that yesterday: "Also the next hosting might be delayed by a few hours (it depends on how late I return tomorrow).". I did not by any way say that the deadline is tomorrow. Please tell me if this message was in any way not clear so that I might be aware of that for the future.

I know how annoying it is to stale. So, for all the players, please make sure to tell me if you think you might not be able to send the turn in time.

[RonD]

It wasn't your message - for the past 8 months I've been in at least one email game that hosts on Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday, so I just had Sunday on my brain.

[The Panther]

RonD said:
It wasn't your message - for the past 8 months I've been in at least one email game that hosts on Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday, so I just had Sunday on my brain.



Same for me.

I was just lucky that I happened to notice from the host email that the turn was hosting Saturday instead of Sunday, or I too would have staled.

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:

RonD said:
It wasn't your message - for the past 8 months I've been in at least one email game that hosts on Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday, so I just had Sunday on my brain.



Same for me.

I was just lucky that I happened to notice from the host email that the turn was hosting Saturday instead of Sunday, or I too would have staled.


This is not good. If more players find it confusing then we can swith to a fixed hosting schedule of Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday.

[RonD]

Oh, I suspect I've learned my lesson.

[OG_Gleep]

Gmail is awesome. If you have GTalk, you get popups when you recieve an e-mail. I have forgotten a couple times already, and the 24 hour updates from Wraith have reminded me to get my turn in.

If anyone wants a gmail account let me know.

[WraithLord]

Oh and turn 10 has been sent.

[WraithLord]

Nah27, I am about to host turn 10 and still haven't received your turn.
This will be the second time straight that you stale.
Are you having trouble participating in the game? If so, please let me know asap.

[Folket]

Where can I find the map?

[Cainehill]

On turn 12, you need the map? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Take it you had to switch computers or reinstall. It's on the mods/maps forum, here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=397335&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1).

[WraithLord]

Turn 13 out.

[WraithLord]

Turn 14 out.

No stales http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Shmonk]

Can we possibly pause this game for a few days? I have to be out of town from Thursday morning to Monday afternoon (PST), and was wondering if we can pause during that time? The next turn is due to host Wed (tomorrow) and I can play that turn before I leave, but then Friday and Sunday I couldn't do.

Let me know if this is possible or not, or if anybody objects (and I can try and find a sub).

[WraithLord]

I think there should be no problem with delaying the game for a few days. This evening's hosting will be as scheduled but the next hosting will be next Monday evening.

[Shmonk]

Awesome, thanks!

[Folket]

I have look at the rules. When did it change from no blood hunting to blood forging/blood magic is forbiden? I think it should be up to me if I want to use my three slaves a turn for magic or for dominion.

[Cainehill]

No, it shouldn't be. RTFR : Blood hunting is prohibited. The map settings give an unfair advantage to blood hunting nations being the reason for this rule .

Given that no one else is allowed to blood hunt, so that blood summonings and items wouldn't be in the game, why do you think all of a sudden it should be your choice? Especially given that then, it becomes essentially impossible to tell whether or not you're cheating and blood hunting.

[Oversway]

I'm almost dead, so what I say doesn't count, but I agree with Cainhill -- I thought the rules were pretty clear. Although, I think blood battlefield magic may be acceptable. It wasn't really discussed, probably since it isn't that great.

[WraithLord]

Folket said:
I have look at the rules. When did it change from no blood hunting to blood forging/blood magic is forbiden? I think it should be up to me if I want to use my three slaves a turn for magic or for dominion.


Folket, there was a phase prior to the game starting that we have discussed the possibilities wrt blood nation/hunting.
Before that game had started we had all agreed on the following rule:
"1. Blood hunting is prohibited. The map settings give an unfair advantage to blood hunting nations being the reason for this rule. Since Mictlan needs to blood sacrifice for spreading dominions they are an exception to this rule. Mictlan is allowed to blood hunt but are prohibited from blood research and the forging of items that require blood slaves (with the exception of the jade knife). "
Meaning excatly that. We all agreed that blood hunting should be prohibited but were willing to make a (small) exception for Mictlan so that it would at least be able to spread dominion. The alternative to this rule would have been to simply ban all blood nations.

I have made this as clear as possible, even asking you via email whether you are still interested in playing Mictlan in spite of this limitation, to which your gave a positive answer. Anyway, I understand there might have been a confusion, for which I am sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif, yet those were the agreed house rules.

[The Panther]

On the subject of using blood battlefield spells:

It is certainly possible to cast one blood spell without either blood hunting or researching blood magic, and that would be 'Bleed'.

I was assuming that it is legal to cast Bleed since it does not violate the rules as stated so clearly in Wraithlord's above post. In fact, I just happen to have a mage set up to do exactly that if needed. I got an event where I received 16 blood slaves and I also happen to have a sauromancer with the random blood school.

So - is Bleed legal or not? (Not that this is a game turning spell http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

I did offer to trade my free slaves to Folket for gems, but he declined to do so.

I agree that the rules were clearly stated in that the sole use of the 3 blood slaves per turn for Mictlan was to spread dominion in order to avoid the quick dominion death.

[Cainehill]

Yah, that wouldn't violate the rules, albeit it does illustrate why it's hard to setup a game like this: if you script a mage to cast Bleed, it's hard to tell if you're actually doing some blood hunting on the side.

Then again, why someone would waste a mage's time blood hunting when they can't get blood summons or items is beyond me. (Unless they figured to get a blood stone or some such equiped on a stealthy mage.)

*sigh* You know what the kicker is? I found Mount Chaining this game (40% bonus to blood summons), was all excited until I remembered no blood magic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[The Panther]

Cainehill said:
*sigh* You know what the kicker is? I found Mount Chaining this game (40% bonus to blood summons), was all excited until I remembered no blood magic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



I had to laugh my a$$ over this one. Mount Chaining is practically a guaranteed winner site for any blood nation (Jotun qualifies), and you CANT EVEN USE IT!!!

[Folket]

I think there is a 60 blood bonus site.

[The Panther]

Folket said:
I think there is a 60 blood bonus site.



There is also a 20 (unholy 3) and a 30 (blood 3) in addition to the 60 (blood 3). But all three of these are rare. Of these, the only one I have ever heard about actually occuring in an MP game is the Summoning Circle (60 bonus).

The Mount Chaining is not only merely uncommon, it is also a level 1 site (meaning it can be easily found), and it is availiable on any land terrain. In other words, far too common and much too easy to find for the huge bonus it gives.

[Folket]

Since Mictlan needs to blood sacrifice for spreading dominions they are an exception to this rule. Mictlan is allowed to blood hunt but are prohibited from blood research and the forging of items that require blood slaves (with the exception of the jade knife).

A loophole in this rule is that I may summon spine fiends and fiends of darkness.

[The Panther]

Folket said:
A loophole in this rule is that I may summon spine fiends and fiends of darkness.



Yes, this is true since it is your national spell. Maybe I should withdraw my offer to trade my slaves to you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The Panther]

Folket said:
Mictlan is allowed to blood hunt.




I was under the impression that this is not true. NO ONE is allowed to blood hunt, even Mictlan. You may only use your starting slaves and nothing else.

If this IS true, then I will attempt to kill you immediately to prevent you from getting the usual horde of fiends. In fact, if I notice that you are blood hunting, then we are at war right now to the death.

[Oversway]

You probably want to go to war anyways, he has got a good start, and will have my capitol shortly.

[Cainehill]

That loophole is bogus, national spell or not. The intent was to not have anyone getting huge swarms of summoned creatures, via the very low magic site setting, which is why Wraithlord wanted to discourage you from playing Mictlan, since blood income isn't affected by the setting. If you start blood hunting and summoning fiends, you're essentially cheating.

[OG_Gleep]

You won't need to use them if you configed like you did in Schitz.

[Folket]

I know, that is why I'm trying to lobby for that mictlan should be able to use blood magic as normal but that they should not be allowed to blood hunt.

[WraithLord]

Folket said:
Since Mictlan needs to blood sacrifice for spreading dominions they are an exception to this rule. Mictlan is allowed to blood hunt but are prohibited from blood research and the forging of items that require blood slaves (with the exception of the jade knife).

A loophole in this rule is that I may summon spine fiends and fiends of darkness.


This is indeed a loophole. It is against the spirit of the rule, but certainly the way the rule was phrased it is indeed allowed. Had this apparent loophole been brought up while we were setting up the game we would not have allowed it, either we would have added an exception to the rule or resort to simply banning the blood nations.

Folket, since this loophole does exist I feel like I can't just ask you not to exploit it, though I would certainly have preferred that you don't.

[The Panther]

I have only myself to blame, for I did not read the rules closely enough when it was modified to allow Mictlan to blood hunt. Had I noticed that, I surely would have objected. Without blood hunting, he could not get more than a handful of fiends, which would be not a big deal. With blood hunting on a rich world, though, he could easily get hundreds of them.

It was much simpler when the rule was 'No Blood Hunting allowed'.

[OG_Gleep]

I thought it was everyone's understanding that the only reason Mictlan would be able to hunt was to use the slaves for sacrafices. That was what I got out of the whole exchange, national spell, wording or not.

You specifically said under the rule mictlan would be useless and you suggested another nation be picked.

What was said surrounding the rule allowed for no loopholes. The subsequent discussions and clarification replaces or atleast amends the rule in the first post.

[OG_Gleep]

I re-read the entire thread just in case, and the actual determination was:

Blood Slaves
1) They can only be used by Mictlan
2) Can only be used for sacrafice

I for instance can't use them for sacrafice (I have +1 per turn atm). Wraith took the wording from one of the posts, but everyone was on the same page, and only made that concesion due to the fact that you wanted to play Mictlan.

[The Panther]

I can live with this determination. If Mictlan wants to blood hunt a lot and spread dominion like crazy, he knows that his neighbors will retaliate. I notice that he has not done this as yet, for his dominion is very low.

It means he cannot summon fiends. It also means that I cannot cast 'Bleed'. So I moved my blood slaves over to a commander without blood magic and they will now act like weak, berserked troops.

I also decided to not invade Mictlan, giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Cainehill]

Gotta agree with OG_Gleep : as I said, Mictlan using blood spells is cheating, given the discussion that went on and the obvious intent. The fact that there's a technical loophole doesn't mean it isn't cheating. But maybe Mictlan has a politician or lawyer for pretender? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

( Perhaps in the future, blood can be modded out : if all blood summons were made 500 blood slaves, ditto all items, no one would even be tempted. )

[WraithLord]

I would say that we have a consensus that Micltan can only use blood slaves for dominions spread.

[OG_Gleep]

Cainehill said:
Gotta agree with OG_Gleep : as I said, Mictlan using blood spells is cheating, given the discussion that went on and the obvious intent. The fact that there's a technical loophole doesn't mean it isn't cheating. But maybe Mictlan has a politician or lawyer for pretender? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

( Perhaps in the future, blood can be modded out : if all blood summons were made 500 blood slaves, ditto all items, no one would even be tempted. )




Some one would...if only to say...."Yes I am kicking your *** that bad"

[shovah]

yea, i can see some-one summoning an army of spine devils just to rub it in some-ones face (or just getting ALL the arch devils, ice devils, heliophagi and demon lords)

[OG_Gleep]

I'm screwing up the game. I apologize, I thought I could handle PBEM. My memory is really bad due to side effects of certain things, and normally I keep track of my games via gods eye. Its not going to get any better as life is hectic around my house atm.

Again I apologize..I'll stay out of PBEMs.

[WraithLord]

OG_Gleep, can you find a sub for yourself?

Otherwise we will need to find a sub for OG_Gleep, hence I will delay further hosting for a few day until such time as we do.
Later today I shall start a thread here asking for a sub.

[shovah]

i could take over for him if you want (who cares if im already in 2 pbem and 1 server game)

[Folket]

shovah, it the peak of my carrier I was in 8 games. At the moment I'm in 5 games.

[OG_Gleep]

Thanks Shovah. I'll send you the PW.

[WraithLord]

shovah said:
i could take over for him if you want (who cares if im already in 2 pbem and 1 server game)

Welcome aboard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Oh and I shall need your email.

[shovah]

pmed you my email

[Reverend Zombie]

I (Pythium) will be away from assured internet access from Friday till Sunday night. I think I will be able to complete the next turn if it is the one that is available tonight/early tommorrow. But I am afraid I would miss the weekend hosting deadline. Can that one please be paused till my return Monday?

[WraithLord]

So we shall postpone the Friday hosting to Monday evening (GMT time).

[OG_Gleep]

Appriciate it Shovah. I feel terrible for getting to this point. This makes me feel much better.

Sory again guys, and good luck.

[Oversway]

Doesn't matter to me. Mictlan is just keeping me alive for my decent domain. So my turn consists of giving away gold and gems that will hopefully be used to kill him later http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Reverend Zombie]

If the Friday host is in the evening, yes, please. If it is before 10 a.m. Eastern U.S. tomorrow, I can do it before I set out.

[Shmonk]

Postponing over the weekend and hosting Monday is fine with me.

[OG_Gleep]

Speaking of subs:

I am heading out of town this weekend. If anyone is not playing in either of these two games I could really use a sub:

Schitzor
Random Nations (hosted by Graeme)

I'll be gone till Sunday, if you can, PM me and I'll send the info.

Thansk.

[shovah]

i havnt recieved an email containing the game yet so...

[WraithLord]

Strange, as I have sent it to you today. I've resent it just in case.

[WraithLord]

Turn 21 sent.

[WraithLord]

Turn 22 sent.

[WraithLord]

Turn 23 sent.

[WraithLord]

On turn 23 Marignon, led by Oversway, has been vanquished.
Thanks Oversway for playing.

[Oversway]

Yeah I did horribly this game. I always try to go for good scales and it rarely works out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks for hosting!

[Folket]

I need CB 5.2 or else I will not be able to play my turn.

[WraithLord]

I have sent it to you.

[WraithLord]

Strange thing happened when I have hosted turn 24.
The hosting gave an error saying something like "Ctis password is wrong". I suspect the game had regarded the Ctis 2h file as illegal for some reason.

Is it possible to rehost the same turn if I have all the .2h files?

I am delaying sending the new turns until I have a better understanding of the problem and how to fix it.

[WraithLord]

It appears that in order to re host, the saved game files are needed. Unfortunately I haven't saved them and as a result Ctis will stale this turn. From now on I will make sure the turn are saved prior to hosting!

I will send the turns this evening.

[WraithLord]

Turn 24 sent.

[shovah]

im going to have to bail out guys, i dont know why but i just dont like this game. i'll do this turn and start looking for a replacement ok?

[Cainehill]

Might I suggest that the first post gets updated to show who the hades took over nations? I mean, Shovah is quitting - he was even in the bloody game??? Not according to the original post.

[OG_Gleep]

He took over for me.

[shovah]

for a few turns

[WraithLord]

I will post a request for a sub. EDIT - Thanks Shova.

OG_Gleep, when we have found a sub could you provide him with the passwd?

Guys, I'm afraid there's no choice but to delay the game until we find a sub.

[RonD]

It would seem only reasonable for us to expect shovah to continue to play turns while we search.

[The Panther]

You could email Oversway and ask him if he wants to take over now that Marignon is dead.

And I agree that Snovah should continue to do his turns so as to not unduly delay the game.

[OG_Gleep]

No problem, although shovah should have it too if I'm not around (been busy lately)

[WraithLord]

RonD said:
It would seem only reasonable for us to expect shovah to continue to play turns while we search.

I agree.
Shova can you please continue to play turns during the search?

[shovah]

yea, i'll try to keep it up.

[WraithLord]

Shova, I see that you can't keep it up and not sub is forthcoming.

Guys, if there are no objections I will turn Van to AI (Or rather I'll ask it of our gracious keeper of the master password).

EDIT, oh and so Van won't stale again I will delay the hosting until it is made AI (Which I hope will be tomorrow).

[The Panther]

If you make a player AI, the computer will make the move. Even if a turn file is submitted, turning a player to AI will overwrite whatever orders were submitted.

Thus, you cannot turn a player to AI using a turn file. Only the host can turn a player to AI. You will need the password from Shovah to make this happen.

[PashaDawg]

I am the almighty holder of the master password. Give me my turn file, and I will switch Van to AI.

Power... more... POWER!

[Shmonk]

Thanks, Mr. Power Hungry Royal Canine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[PashaDawg]

No problem!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[WraithLord]

Mictlan and Ermor, What is up with you?
Please update me as to your status.

It would seem is if Mictlan's email address (irrriterad_massa@hotmail) is not valid anymore.

[Shmonk]

Seems like they may need to go AI as well??

[WraithLord]

I will wait until tomorrow for a response from either of them (I have also emailed them), w/o one forthcoming they shall go AI (for I don't hold much stake in finding subs for them).

[RonD]

It seems that Nah27 is missing in action from at least one other game. But I think folket is still taking his turns in the Wyrms game.

[Peacekeeper]

nah is missing in action from all his current games. There hasnt been any word from him since he disappeared.

[The Panther]

Am I the only one who did not get a turn file from the latest turn?

[Shmonk]

I got the last turn.

[WraithLord]

The Panther said:
Am I the only one who did not get a turn file from the latest turn?

I have sent the turn to you twice already, could it be that those mails were filtered out by your mail server?

[WraithLord]

I have requested our allmighty Passwd. keeper to turn Ermor and Mictlan to AI.

I hope everything is OK with Folket Nah27, but hey, they could have at least said something before they went off the radar...

[Folket]

That is okey. I have been very busy and reinstalled on my computer so I have not got everything into gear yet.

[WraithLord]

And you don't want to continue playing, Is that so?

[PashaDawg]

I have switched Ermor and Mictlan to AI.

Let the gaming continue!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[WraithLord]

Thanks Pasha!

Turn 31 sent.

[The Panther]

I thought I had seen most everything until I killed the Mictlan Oracle. His bless effect?

F10
W10
S10
D1
B4

He had -3 on all scales to pay for it. His eagle warriors were incredibly powerful. If not for my poison slingers, I am not sure I could have taken him out despite the overwhelming troop advantage. I think I lost loyal troops at more than a 5 to 1 ratio to the eagle warriors. A couple of times, I lost the battle but many of his eagle warriors died to the lingering poison after my retreat.

The AI will be nasty until the Dominion kill happens. As long as it is smart enough to bless the eagle and jaguar warriors in battle, that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

It was a very interesting setup in that he kept his dominion from spreading by conducting very few slave sacrifices. He also used the good Marignon scales to get gold from captured territory to build additional sacred warriors. However, it took him too long to take Marignon out, and this allowed me to build over a hundred poison slingers before invading.

And if he had a nature bless for the poison immunity, I doubt I would have attacked him. Of course, he did not know he would start next to C'tis when he made his pretender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[WraithLord]

Turn 32 sent.

[Oversway]

It was a very interesting setup in that he kept his dominion from spreading by conducting very few slave sacrifices. He also used the good Marignon scales to get gold from captured territory to build additional sacred warriors.



I think that is pretty typical for uber bless mictlan set ups. I was a little disappointed that he went that route because it didn't seem to fit with the 'big armies' theme of the game. Then again maybe I was just whining because I was killed so early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

Ouch - another of the AI nations is running an uber-bless, immortal sacred undead with W9F9 and S8 (making them hard to dispel).

[Reverend Zombie]

I think there was supposed to be a hosting last night, but I had not received my turn as of 22:00; I'm GMT -4.

[Cainehill]

It hosted last night - I got my turn for the 17th.

[WraithLord]

Reverend Zombie, for some reason the turn wasn't sent to you yesterday. I have sent to you, sorry for the delay.

[Reverend Zombie]

Many thanks!

[Reverend Zombie]

WraithLord said:
Reverend Zombie, for some reason the turn wasn't sent to you yesterday. I have sent to you, sorry for the delay.



I received your email, but my turn was not attached. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[WraithLord]

My bad, again.

Sent again, this time with the turn file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

We'll do the hosting tomorrow evening so you will have enough time to do your turn.

[Reverend Zombie]

Thx.

[WraithLord]

All turns in, Turn 37 sent.

[WraithLord]

We are less then two hours to host and Jotuns turn is yet to arrive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Cainehill]

Oops - on it!

[WraithLord]

Good thing I posted here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Turn 38 sent, no stales http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[WraithLord]

Cainhill, you have sent an illegal turn (possibly your previous turn), please send the correct turn.

[WraithLord]

Turn 43 sent.

[WraithLord]

The game is living up to its name as indeed some significant armies are "clashing" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[RonD]

Unfortunately, my search for a sub for the next few turns has come up empty.

I have sent in the current turn, but I will not be available to play again until probably Monday. Even that is not completely certain, as I will be on the road and internet access is unpredictable (but I *think* I will be OK from Monday onward).

I'd prefer to hold the game (as one cannot expect the AI nations to respect a temporary cease-fire), but I'll defer to the wishes of the remaining human players.

[Shmonk]

I'm fine with the delay until Monday, because we'll still get Wednesday's turn and would just be missing Saturday's turn. So if it's not until Monday or Tuesday it's fine with me.

[WraithLord]

ok, seeing as there are no objections the next hosting will be delayed to Monday.

[Reverend Zombie]

I staled last turn, inadvertently. Apologies to those who were waiting on me.

[The Panther]

I am out of town on a camping trip this weekend and will have no internet access. Delaying is fine with me.

[RonD]

Yahoo mail isn't letting me attach a file right now for some reason. I am going to try to rename my .2h file as ".zip" and attach it to this message. If that doesn't work, I will have to hope to get another chance to send it before the Monday deadline.

[WraithLord]

You can always create a new web mail account, you can try gmail for example or msn.