Following up on the Council of Wyrms idea ...

[KissBlade]

Anyone interested in getting in on a game for Council of Dragons or something similar? Basically a heavily diplomatic slow paced sort of rp game to loosen up after a long days of hard work, etc? =)

Let me know, I'm thinking maybe a 15 player game - 17 player game with the water nations allowed wyrms to sub as their dragons or whatever they may choose.

[Wish]

I'll jump in as tien chi, however it turns out, I think saephi would be a pretty good base for this game. (I wish CoW was on such a structurally sound map as saephi)

and why dragons, why not just go with anything size 3 and up? That will eliminate the VQ sc's which are so popular as of recent.

[Cainehill]

Umm... When did VQ SC's "recently" become popular? Since they were nerfed in one of Illwinter's patches, I haven't seen one in ages.

Imposing dragons makes it more of a thematic game, potentially heavier on roleplaying, vice a game with only a size limit, albeit it does also give something of a premium to those nations which can heavily benefit from an N9, W9, or F9 bless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Not sure how my current load (of games & work) is going, but I might be interested depending on when it starts.

[Wish]

hmm, after playing with it, looks like a dragon can make a pretty decent thug for indy clearing. Maybe someone should make a mod to give a wider variety of dragons prior to launching this game.

I am inspired to make a mod that adds more dragons to the game.

[Sedna]

I agree that this game cries out for a Dragon pretender mod. The Nova Deus mod here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=403356&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) introduces a black and white dragon for example. Seems like it would be fun to have a dragon specializing in each magic path (even blood?). Anyhow, I'd be willing to help out. The great thing about this mod would be that the graphics are (mostly) easy, unless we feel a great need to get creative we can just color the existing dragons. Play-testing will be important though...

Uh, this is all a long way to say that I'm interested in the game too. I think I might need to wait until Yarnspinners 2 wraps up. We're at turn 52 of 60, so that shouldn't be too long. Can't deal with two role-playing games at the same time.

[OG_Gleep]

I'd like to jump in as Jotun

[KissBlade]

Nooooooooooo!! Someone took TC before me >_<. And this game was pseudo my idea too! Alright, so the reason for dragons was obviously as Cainehill said. Thematic and nifty for roleplaying purposes. However, I am aware it gives some races a nice bless advantage so I was open to setting ideas and also how we can work around that. (Perhaps, no paths' greater than 8?)

[OG_Gleep]

Well if the wyrm is a viable choice, races that don't depend on bless effects have an option. Taking bless out cripples a lot of nations.

[KissBlade]

Yeah a second council of Wyrms might no be a terrible idea come to think of it. Dragons do give bless an advantage. Or perhaps allow size 6 fliers and call it council of the Bygones.

[Wish]

I'll do the art if you wanna help me with the mod. White and Black dragons sound good, I was thinking a gold dragon for earth and a wind dragon or the such for sky. Draco Sanguinius could be a pretty diobolical blood dragon.

I'll download nova deus and see what it looks like.

also the water dragon should be available to underwater types, or maybe a second sea dragon be created specifically for atlantis and rlyeh - one that becomes a king/traitor king or something. or a rley specific void dragon, thats human form is a stargazer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[KissBlade]

sounds too much work ... especially since I don't know enough balancing for mods. To be honest, if I were to mod the thing, I'd just change dragon's magic path to 50, give them recup, dom 2 and cost 75. Seems silly that dragons that should be bad *** creatures of magic and such are only used for mono bless thugs.

[Wish]

Actually i meant if sedna helped me with it

[Wish]

For instance, I imagine Caelum would find it thematic to play a storm dragon:

http://www.importantlife.net/dom2dragons/storm_dragon.jpg

[OG_Gleep]

"Seems silly that dragons that should be bad *** creatures of magic and such are only used for mono bless thugs."

This may be totally off base, but my impression on fantasy dragons is that they are magical elemental beings, not rainbow mages. Most fiction that I have read, when giving them power over magic, seemed to limit it to a specific element.

[Wish]

I'm with gleep on this one, besides it would be unbalanced to have a physical powerhouse with a built in AoE archer power, and the ability to cheaply become an SC.

[KissBlade]

Dragons do identify with elements but if you follow things like ShadowRun, Palladium or D&D, you'd notice they have a smattering of magical abilities. If they're too cheap, then make them cost more. I still think Dragons should be DRAGONS not some hatchling.

[Wish]

It would have to balance out, they would have to be so expensive in base that you'd still have to take the negative scales to make an SC out of them.

You have to figure out a way to make new or old pretenders balanced not only with thematics, but also with the mechanics of the game. If you make any pretender too good then that is all anyone will ever play, or more likely, no one will use the mod because it is so unbalanced.

[Oversway]

Just play with regular dragons. You might never get the game started if you sit around trying to come up with a balanced mod. There are probably enough blessing friendly nations (and enough players who can do well without a blessing) to go around.

[KissBlade]

Oh well, I can't actually play this game anyhow. This game is seriously taking away all my girlfriend time and we had to sit down for one of those "talks".

[Wish]

I think draco sanguinius would be a fine addition to the nations of ulm, jotunhiem, mictlan, abysia, and vanhiem:

http://www.importantlife.net/dom2dragons/blood_dragon.jpg

[Ironhawk]

Hahahaha, Kissblade! Too funny man. How can dom2 take up that much time tho? turns only take like .5-1hrs and you can do them whenever your GF is not around.

[Morkilus]

Finish a 60-turn sp game every couple nights like I have done for a few weeks... and see how much free time you have.

On-topic: those pictures are awesome. As for finishing the less artsy parts of the mod, I'm willing to put in some time if there isn't a more competent person willing (i've never finished a mod before, but it doesn't _seem_ that hard...)

[OG_Gleep]

Wait until you get Married.

[OG_Gleep]

Any updates?

[Wish]

Well with kiss dropping out someone else needs to pick up the reigns. look to the mods forum for my completed dragons mod

[Morkilus]

I don't know if this counts as thread necromancy... hopefully it's "Reanimate Soulless" rather than "Reanimate Longdead"...

But I'd hate for this idea to die, and I'd like to get a new game going. Even if it's just a short game to try out the various dragons, it would be fun. Any philanthropic soul with a server want to pick this up? If I did start it, it'd have to be e-mail and I'd have to restrict it to 6-8 players to keep my sanity.

[castigated]

i don't have the time to organize it, but i'd definitely be down for playing this game. i'll take r'lyeh, unless water nations cause a problem, in which case i'd be happy enough playing pan.

[shovah]

took my 2 current faves in one go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif i'll take jotun, aby, ctis or ermor depending on which get taken first. if you cant find anyone else i could always give hosting it by pbem a shot (i know how and i have the time)

[Wish]

I'll take marignon

[castigated]

shovah, as volunteer hoster, i think you're in charge of making up the rules....dragons only?...dragon mod?

[shovah]

id probably go with both of those

[castigated]

okay. crap, i think that means no water nations, then, because i believe even with the mod, the dragons aren't an option. pan for me then.

should we make a new thread so the organizer (shovah) can edit the first post?

[shovah]

sure, will do now
ps: got any good ideas for a game name?

edit: i'll take man

[Wish]

with the mod the water nations get two dragons

[shovah]

then i shall change (once again) to atlantis (unless cast dosnt want to be rlyeh in which case i'll take it)
should i just call it council of dragons or can one of you smart people think of a better name?

[castigated]

i am _quite_ sure that with the mod enabled, i do _not_ have any dragons as options. i have the nova deus mod enabled, and no other mods enabled. am i doing something wrong?

[shovah]

yes, you should have the dragons mod enabled (look on mods forum, it adds alot of dragons)

[castigated]

so is that the only mod that we're playing with?...also, we should set up a large number of rules, if we are immitating the council of wyrms game. rules that enforce lots of diplomacy.

[shovah]

yea, i'll get some rules and our mods in the post i make 2morro (dam gmt)

[castigated]

don't mean to push you shovah, but...uhh...it's been a few days.

[shovah]

sry, been kinda busy with a few things

[castigated]

hehe, no worries man, just joshing you. if i really cared, i would make a forum/rules myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[shovah]

go ahead, i'll still join in the game and give hosting it a shot though

[OG_Gleep]

I'd still like in on this one, but have a couple questions:

Are we supposed to pick a Dragon that is thematic to our race?

If so, I'd like to play a blood nation. Sign me up for one of them please.

[shovah]

sign me up (yes i do have multiple personalities) for mictain unless OG dosnt like any other blood nations

[castigated]

waitwaitwait. i thought shovah was organizing this one. maybe i'll put a new thread up, and i guess i can host by email. i'll do that at work tonight.

[shovah]

ive already said i'll host if you want, just no time to think up rules ect

[Morkilus]

I'd like to start a game without any house rules other than "you must pick a unique dragon", just to try them all out. I should make a matrix of nations and available pretenders to help out, maybe later...

So if Shovah is up to setting up a server, I suggest you also make a pick of pretender with your nation, and make sure you're not picking a dragon someone else has already. Be sure to install the Dragons and CB 5.4 mods so you know you can select that dragon for your nation. But of course it's your call, cast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[castigated]

i also think the idea was to have a very high diplo game...fashioned after CoW, but with as little plagiarism as possible.

depending on the number of players, we could do the unique dragon idea. i will keep it in mind.

[shovah]

dibs on the draco sanguinus (and im not doing server, im doing pbem (that is if you want me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif))

[Wish]

I am going to play fire dragon, with marignon there is no reason to play any of the others

I guess that means the underwater nations should both play, so they can run their respective unique dragons (sea and void)

[Morkilus]

Here's the list, taken from the game:

Abysia - Red, Green, Blood, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Atlantis - Shadow, *Sea
Pythium - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Man - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Ulm - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold, Blood
C'Tis - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Arco - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Caelum - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Ermor - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Marignon - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Pangaea - Red, Blue, Green, *Carrion, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Vanheim - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold, Blood
Jotunheim - Red, Blue, Green, *Dracolich, Shadow, Storm, Gold, Blood
R'lyeh - Shadow, *Void
Mictlan - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold, Blood
T'ien Ch'i - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold
Machaka - Red, Blue, Green, Shadow, Storm, Gold

The ones with stars are unique, and should be taken by that nation if we want to get as many different dragons as possible. If this *is* going to be the diplomatic game though, I don't see why we shouldn't have as many players as possible, and therefore multiple dragons of the same kind would be okay. It will be a long game, and we should be able to be happy with our choices http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It would be nice to have a representation of at least one of each dragon, though... and there are eleven. I can wait to pick until we get more rules down, though I am leaning to one of the "new" dragons.

One game setting I would like to see is low indie strength... it makes for a more interesting early game, and gives a needed advantage to the "early game" nations that routinely get stomped later. That, and I'd like to see some dragons that aren't purely combat and/or bless-focused. With low indie settings, you can afford to have an initially weak dragon since you can use your nationals to expand. With diplomatic rules defaulting that all nations are initially at peace, we don't have to worry about people getting rolled early by SC pretenders.

Well, there's my 2 cents for now, and let's get some more ideas for house rules; I'm sure Panther wouldn't mind if we copied some of the CoW rules, and I'd be happy to help write some new ones (as Vice Chairwyrm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[The Panther]

I don't mind if you use any of my CoW rules. After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Plus, I think the rules should be modified somehow to make it more interesting in the early game.

Let's see if all schools are covered:
Red - Fire
Blue - Water
Green - Nature
Blood - Blood
Storm - Air
Gold - Earth
Shadow - Death?
Void - Astral
Carrion - Death + Nature
Dracolich - Death
Sea - Water? - How is this different from the Blue Dragon?

Anyway, I was thinking about playing in this game if it happens after the Yarn game ends plus I get eliminated in COW.

[shovah]

the shadow dragon has astral, not death and the sea dragon is quite different from the blue dragon: its weaker than other dragons, it has higher defence, he is poison resistant, it can be picked by atlantis and anyone who attacks it gets poisoned (like the coral armour wearing guys)

[The Panther]

Ermor ought have a death dragon option, which is why I thought the shadow was death.

[shovah]

yea, a death dragon would be nice for ermor (a slight variation on the carrion dragon should do it)