What the hell is up with Dominions 3???

[DominionsFan]

I am visiting the Shrapnel site more times / week for many months now, but there is _STILL_ no informations about Dominions 3. How is this possible??? The game supposed to be released in 2006 Q1...I thought so at least....

Why is there no infos about Doms 3 or why no screenshots has been posted yet? Also what is the release date of the game?

[Saber Cherry]

Well, calm down a bit...

First off, the latest official mention was here:
http://www.illwinter.com/

Second, similar to the case with SEV, I think the developers would rather spend time working on the game than updating their website... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Go look at the GalCiv2 forums. As much time as Brad spends reading and posting on the forums, I can't imagine how he gets any work done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I don't mean that in a bad way; I know he works really hard. I just don't understand when he sleeps.

[alexti]

Saber Cherry said:
Go look at the GalCiv2 forums. As much time as Brad spends reading and posting on the forums, I can't imagine how he gets any work done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I don't mean that in a bad way; I know he works really hard. I just don't understand when he sleeps.


I hope that while he is on the forums, not when he's working on GalCiv2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cainehill]

Saber Cherry said:
Go look at the GalCiv2 forums. As much time as Brad spends reading and posting on the forums, I can't imagine how he gets any work done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I don't mean that in a bad way; I know he works really hard. I just don't understand when he sleeps.



He's an AI from Shub. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

(And yes, I have GC2 - great game, but Dog, I wish they'd done a better job on UI.)

[Alneyan]

DominionsFAN said:
I am visiting the Shrapnel site more times / week for many months now, but there is _STILL_ no informations about Dominions 3. How is this possible??? The game supposed to be released in 2006 Q1...I thought so at least....



Near as I know, there has been no announced release date for the game (any you would see is probably guesswork at best). Dominions 3 hasn't been officially announced by any publisher either, near as I can tell. I know Space Empires V, though the previous one was published by Shrapnel Games, ended up with another publisher, so you cannot be 100% sure about the future publisher.

For what we know, perhaps Illwiner will try to get the game published by, say, the Holy See. A few features might end up slightly reworked, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Arralen]

There have people been seen browsing a private DOM3 beta test board on this forum (click "who is online"), so I would say don't worry, be happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DominionsFan]

Why the devs cant answer here at all? Doms 3 cancelled maybe? I have a bad feeling now...no real news since ages...this is not good...not good.

[Ironhawk]

Dom3 has not been cancelled

[Richard]

Because their busy testing and coding Dominions 3. It isn't cancelled, it's right no track.

[NTJedi]

I don't care how long it takes for DOMINIONS_3... more time means more content, stability and better game balance.

---------

HEY... Richard... your signature is way way old. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PrinzMegaherz]

I still pray that you will be able to buy multiple castle blueprints for your nation... I don't like the current "We can build a huge city, but we are to dumb to build watchtowers" system

[Saber Cherry]

There's always "Three Red Seconds", "Living Castle", and so forth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I agree, though. I'm hoping for (at least) two levels of castle per nation - one that can be built cheaply in one turn, offers no economic bonus, has only 50 supplies and 25 defense, and maybe improves the quality of the province defense... and the next tier, which offers full bonuses (the official national castle). Having a military fortess choice that gives new troops a +5 or +10XP bonus would be great, too, for people like me that use recruitable troops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The (enchanted) castles in Master of Magic were pretty cool - walls of fire, for example. But as always, there are more neat possibilities than time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Nerfix]

Richard said:
Because their busy testing and coding Dominions 3. It isn't cancelled, it's right no track.


Goodgood.

You know, does that "The Awekening" adds you can see around here have anything to do with the game...? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PDF]

Well, I'm quite puzzled at the lack of any communication effort by IW and SG about Dom3.
This game should be SG workhorse as sales and buzz go, yet in the last 3 months we had to ask for an interview with KO (that he ans SG gently agreed on) to have news and screenshots for Cyberstratege (the french mag I write for...).
IW site is a polar desert, the latest journals should have more than 6 months, and SG don't even assure they'll publish it now (or is it a joke ?) !
Well, I suppose it's a try to get buzz through silence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DominionsFan]

PDF said:
Well, I'm quite puzzled at the lack of any communication effort by IW and SG about Dom3.
This game should be SG workhorse as sales and buzz go, yet in the last 3 months we had to ask for an interview with KO (that he ans SG gently agreed on) to have news and screenshots for Cyberstratege (the french mag I write for...).
IW site is a polar desert, the latest journals should have more than 6 months, and SG don't even assure they'll publish it now (or is it a joke ?) !
Well, I suppose it's a try to get buzz through silence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Exactly my point!! Also, if I remeber correctly the release date for doms 3. was 2006 Q1, no? Ok I can understand that a company is pushing back the release date, BUT! Months passed, I havent seen screenshots, or not even a real feature list. No news since months. Why? The devs are coding and stuff, thats ok, but they have no time to release any informations, screenshots or a planned release date? I think all fans of the game would be excited if Illwinter would release infos so the players would stop to worry that whats going on with the game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well everything has its pros and cons.

Illwinter is two guys with jobs and familys and lives who also happen to be programming our absolute favorite game. I cant feel right about pestering them to come here and give us a heads up also if it knocks out another item in the update list for Dom3. I guess that a second-hand post saying that they are deeply working on it in the beta will have to keep my fingers from twitching

The PR side is probably more Shrapnels thing? But since I do see them stepping in to calm us, and I do see articles appearing on the net about Dom3, then I guess something is being done. Any more would probably cost us. Any company with a stronger PR push tends to pay for it out of the sales profits somewhere so Im also not going to push to have more of that.

I could probably help abit. I have seen a number of sites that have a Dom3 page with no info other than "its coming" so maybe I will do my little bit to go there and post some excitement building comments. Im not saying that its the prefereable choice but at least its something I can do.

Gandalf Parker

[Tim Brooks]

Dominions 3 is on track, in beta, with alot of effort currently going into getting marketing up and running. Shrapnel Games has a signed contract with Illwinter to publish Dominions III. With a game of this scale, we can't guarantee a release date, so we have been waiting until we are closer to completion, and can at least give a reasonably close schedule, before we announce.

Now, having said all that, look for more infromation, MAJOR information before the end of March.

Has not anyone wondered about the Awakening ads?

See you soon.

[Endoperez]

Now, that's some news. I'd just like to hear the rest of them as well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Other than that, I don't really have much to say. There have been no news in these forums to post, unfortunately. Except that the developers have been (somewhat) more active lately - encouraging comments on mods, on certain threads, etc.
Oh, and Illwinter site isn't a polar desert - last update is "only" from the end of December. That's actually moderately active for that one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Tyrant]

Tim Brooks said:
Dominions 3 is on track, in beta, with alot of effort currently going into getting marketing up and running. Shrapnel Games has a signed contract with Illwinter to publish Dominions III. With a game of this scale, we can't guarantee a release date, so we have been waiting until we are closer to completion, and can at least give a reasonably close schedule, before we announce.

Now, having said all that, look for more infromation, MAJOR information before the end of March.

Has not anyone wondered about the Awakening ads?

See you soon.



I saw the Awakening ads and took them for an Omen! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But...you guys really do need to be more forthcoming. The post i have quoted above is perfectly sufficient. Put up a sticky thread and have someone post "there, there, it's ok, we are making progress" every two weeks just so we are reassured.

We live in the Age of Noise, there are 15 gillion new entertainments coming out every week and ADD is epidemic.
Out of sight is out of mind. Your hardcore fans will wait, but you will lose casual customers if they check in once and don't see something. Everyone who plays these type of games has been burned by vaporware at some point, (Matrix ticked me off so badly I won't even buy their games anymore) so you need to be carefull.

Thanks for your post Tim!

[Agrajag]

Gandalf Parker said:
I could probably help abit. I have seen a number of sites that have a Dom3 page with no info other than "its coming" so maybe I will do my little bit to go there and post some excitement building comments. Im not saying that its the prefereable choice but at least its something I can do.


I think that if you can help generate "buzz" for the game, then do it.
Even though we would like to hope otherwise, dominions is not a strong and major title, and I think its loyal community (as is often the case with such games) is one of its prime assets. And if we can help "spread the word" in order to help such a small game, then we should.
I know I use every chance I get to tell other people about Dominions. (Sadly, I think the vast majority of people that hear about from me either don't check it out, or don't enjoy it. But that has more to do with the gaming demographic here in Israel than everything else :\)

[Nerfix]

I've been tinkering with the idea of a website with some basic Dominions info such as nations etc. then some of the key concepts explained. This could provide some "noise" and info.

But I've been occupied with other stuff and I sort of forget HTML... =/

[Morkilus]

My one rant for today:

I've made dozens of attempts to get my friends to download the demo, all without any success at all... the only person I've gotten to play the game is my brother, as I actually installed the game on his computer so I could play during vacation. This is one of those games that can't be sold by graphics or a flashy website, or even by name alone (Civ IV, ahem)... just by gameplay and flavor. Maybe my friends think I'm full of it, or maybe there simply isn't enough coverage for them to believe me. I have a hard time believing that someone so disappointed in Civ IV and so into fantasy stuff like M:TG wouldn't give this game a chance. But there needs to be a critical mass of buzz to get this game out of the "elite strategy/niche" category. I never would have seen this game nor forum if I hadn't been following GoGamer specials.

[NTJedi]

I completely agree the developers/publishers should be focusing on creating a huge buzz for this game... instead it's dead silence.
Dead silence never brings as much sales as good advertising for a game. The game should have developer diaries every two months, screenshots, chat rooms with the developer answering questions to gaming fans, and brief 20MIN interviews with gaming websites. The total time investment for what I listed is only about 1_hour a month, which is small potatoes for increasing game sales. Instead of generating a hype for the upcoming game, many publishers are using a dead-silence... which only confuses/upsets the fans of the developer.

WHY the Dead-Silence?? We all wonder why... well my theory is the dead silence was placed into the contract by the publisher. The publisher is afraid some other game maker will try stealing ideas.... thus they place a "NO COMMUNICATION of any kind until 3 weeks before the games release." The publisher fails to see the negative side effects of dead silence and the game and its sales suffer in the long run.

WORD OF MOUTH is one of the main ways for a game to increase in sales... but if gamers don't hear anything they equally cannot promote the game via word of mouth. I'm sure we'll eventually hear something... let's just hope it's not too late.

[Endoperez]

Sorry, but I must disagree. Going for that much publicity would be hard, and expensive, for a game so little known as Dominions. And it would certainly take more than an hour in a month. It'd be nice to have something. However, it shouldn't be off from the actual developer time - I think we all agree on this. Thus, the "big news" must come from Shrapnel's side. They have already said that big news will appear this month.

It is pointless to discuss "what they should have done" now. It's a pity this discussion didn't appear two, three months away - we might've gotten something very juicy for Christmas, instead of the annoyingly teasing one-sentence update on the Illwinter site.

[NTJedi]

Endoperez said:
Sorry, but I must disagree. Going for that much publicity would be hard, and expensive, for a game so little known as Dominions. And it would certainly take more than an hour in a month.




Everything I listed can take ABOUT an hour each month. Exactly where do you see LOTS of time being spent?? Each event I listed can easily be set with a fixed timeframe which totals about one hour.
Chats in a chatroom = zero cost
Screenshots to fan websites = zero cost
One developer diary every two months = 15mins... setup on a fans website is zero cost.
interviews with gaming websites = some charge and some don't

--not sure why you see these as expensive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif


Endoperez said:
It'd be nice to have something. However, it shouldn't be off from the actual developer time - I think we all agree on this. Thus, the "big news" must come from Shrapnel's side. They have already said that big news will appear this month.



I agree it shouldn't cut into actual developer time, but 6 months before the games release the buzz should be started. One hour each month is small potatotes.



It is pointless to discuss "what they should have done" now.


I strongly disagree... it's never too late to educate the developers/publishers what should have been done because in the long term it's better for everyone on future games.

[DominionsFan]

Tim Brooks said:
Dominions 3 is on track, in beta, with alot of effort currently going into getting marketing up and running. Shrapnel Games has a signed contract with Illwinter to publish Dominions III. With a game of this scale, we can't guarantee a release date, so we have been waiting until we are closer to completion, and can at least give a reasonably close schedule, before we announce.

Now, having said all that, look for more infromation, MAJOR information before the end of March.

Has not anyone wondered about the Awakening ads?

See you soon.




Finally!!!! I cant wait to see the update! thx!


Oh Tim btw....can you tell us..will there be diplomacy in singleplayer? I really missed it in Doms 2. :-) I know that this is a real wargame but it would be a nice feature.

[Saber Cherry]

I think a lot of the reason the world went crazy over GalCiv 2 and Oblivion were the huge amount of pre-release exposure, and constant trickling of exciting details (even if they were the same ones that trickled the week before, and the week before that). Oblivion, of course, can't be compared since they had a multi-million dollar PR budget, a guy (Pete) that did nothing but fly around the world pimping the game at the offices of every magazine and website that would let him in the door, and a team dedicated to making content for previews. But Stardock is an indy company, and their constant info trickle (aka "hype") netted a massive community and incredible launch...

I don't know how much of this is luck, how much is due to the specific game, how much is due to being slashdotted or penny-arcaded, and how much is due to netting big interviews and previews with big-name magazines. But all together, they worked very well... since the world has been craving 4x-ish games recently. CivIV largely satisfied the Civ fans, GalCiv2 largely satisifed the Master of Orion fans, and now there are just the Master of Magic / Age of Wonders fans looking for a deep Fantasy TBS... especially when HOMMV has Starforce, and only a 50% chance of being good; and isn't quite in the same genre.

Maybe Dominions 3 can fill the void and become huge, with enough hype. Making one of these purported beta testers into a liason for the forum might allow limited dissemination without interrupting busy people who are doing real work. As for netting magazine interviews and previews... I don't really know the process for that, but it would be great if it happened http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To quote Dijkstra: "That was back when I still believed the success of a product had some relation to its quality." (<-with regards to the IBM 360)
Good products fail without hype.

[Tyrian]

For French people, there are an interview and an article about DomIII in the cybertratège magazine. There are some screenshots.
http://www.cyberstratege.com/

For the infos, they talk about:
*subterrean races and castle
*the system of era
*the random map generator
*the awakening system (the pretendant can be in sleep at the start of the game)
*better IA (more castle construction)
*lesser powerful drain life
*lesser "micro-gestion"

(sorry for the bad english)

edit for Dominionsfan: in the interview, they clearly say no diplomatie for the moment

[Saber Cherry]

Neat, a magazine that takes hardcore strategy seriously! Thanks for the translation.

[DominionsFan]

Tyrian said:
For French people, there are an interview and an article about DomIII in the cybertratège magazine. There are some screenshots.
http://www.cyberstratege.com/

For the infos, they talk about:
*subterrean races and castle
*the system of era
*the random map generator
*the awakening system (the pretendant can be in sleep at the start of the game)
*better IA (more castle construction)
*lesser powerful drain life
*lesser "micro-gestion"

(sorry for the bad english)

edit for Dominionsfan: in the interview, they clearly say no diplomatie for the moment



I see!! Can you post these screenshots? I must see them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Tyrian]

DominionsFan: I'm not sure it's totally legal... But you can't have this magazie so...
Wait a couple of minutes.

[DominionsFan]

Tyrian said:
DominionsFan: I'm not sure it's totally legal... But you can't have this magazie so...
Wait a couple of minutes.




Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ... sure you can post the scans its legal, ive seen pcgamer scans etc on many sites before..

[Nerfix]

Tyrian said:For the infos, they talk about:
*subterrean races and castle
*the system of era
*the random map generator
*the awakening system (the pretendant can be in sleep at the start of the game)
*better IA (more castle construction)
*lesser powerful drain life
*lesser "micro-gestion"


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Tyrian]

here the 2 pages in the zip http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Nerfix]

OMG, I'm spasming from excitement.

[DominionsFan]

Tyrian said:
here the 2 pages in the zip http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Thank you!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Nerfix]

Okay, let's see.

- It seems that there's more variation on battle terrain
- I don't think I regonize some of the units in the uppermost pic...is that a new graphic for the web effect?
- The UI looks like Dom II one with Dom I graphics! Yummy!
- It also appears that dominion can now seen more easily
- The graphics looks neater, and it seems you can see army strenght new way on the map
- I don't regonize the nation but it sorta looks some sort of underground Atlantis. O_o

EDIT: Any idea on the amount of new stuff...?

[Tyrian]

There are 1500 units (Dom2: 1000), more specific nation spells, 20 nations by era ( 3 era).

[Nerfix]

Oooh, neat, very neat. Thanks for the info, Tyrian!

[Gandalf Parker]

I do click the "Awakening" ad once in a while to see if its linked to any new PR release. Same with that "Dare to Dream" ad.

Im not completely sure how much we COULD be given at this point. Its a common thing with games in beta testing. Maybe some tidbits on items that are put in and seem stable enough to make it thru all of the testing. But release date, nations, new spells, specific features, all of that would be in the testing phase now and VERY susceptable to change. There are dangers involved with making "official" statements about stuff like that.

We see a new nation but what if there is still copyright searches that have to be done on the name of the nation and certain units etc etc. Ive seen that in other betas where things in the beta had to be renamed or taken out. And any beta that doesnt move the release date isnt a very good beta testing. Who amoung us doesnt feel that they could add something to that? We will just have to keep reminding them to drop us some "we are still here" notes once in awhile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyway, much thanks to Shrapnel and the developers for keeping an eye on us. Hopefully that means that the conversations about Dom2 bugs and wishlists are being revisited. Has anyone boiled those down into quicky-lists lately?

Gandalf Parker

[DominionsFan]

I will make a mod for doms 3 for sure, mostly unit and terrain gfx. I am very good in it.

[DominionsFan]

Gandalf Parker said:
I do click the "Awakening" ad once in a while to see if its linked to any new PR release. Same with that "Dare to Dream" ad.

Im not completely sure how much we COULD be given at this point. Its a common thing with games in beta testing. Maybe some tidbits on items that are put in and seem stable enough to make it thru all of the testing. But release date, nations, new spells, specific features, all of that would be in the testing phase now and VERY susceptable to change. There are dangers involved with making "official" statements about stuff like that.

We see a new nation but what if there is still copyright searches that have to be done on the name of the nation and certain units etc etc. Ive seen that in other betas where things in the beta had to be renamed or taken out. And any beta that doesnt move the release date isnt a very good beta testing. Who amoung us doesnt feel that they could add something to that? We will just have to keep reminding them to drop us some "we are still here" notes once in awhile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyway, much thanks to Shrapnel and the developers for keeping an eye on us. Hopefully that means that the conversations about Dom2 bugs and wishlists are being revisited. Has anyone boiled those down into quicky-lists lately?

Gandalf Parker



I think that the devs should focus on Doms 3 with all power now, fixing the Doms 2 bugs -> implent those fixes in Doms 3, like the AI fixes and so on. :-) .. btw I am very happy that IW is fixing the AI [we know that they gonna fix castle building at this point].

[Gandalf Parker]

By the way, for Dom2 I provided space for many of us on my server to aid in supporting the game as did a number of other people. The www.dom2minions.com (http://www.dom2minions.com) is abit old and not very impressive but it supported the private directories and emails for a number of people here. And hosted a nubmer of their MP games too.

I also have www.Dom3Minions.com (http://www.Dom3Minions.com) registered (for a year now) but dont have much to put there yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It will be moving to a massively upgraded server next week in preparation for the new load Im expecting to hit it when we get Dom3 things to put up.

Just thought Id mention that in case someone wants to support the game with webpages or files, but not quite eager to put up a domain for it.

You can reach me as gandalf on the dom2minions.com server, or PM me here if you have any questions on that.

[DominionsFan]

Gandalf Parker said:
By the way, for Dom2 I provided space for many of us on my server to aid in supporting the game as did a number of other people. The www.dom2minions.com (http://www.dom2minions.com) is abit old and not very impressive but it supported the private directories and emails for a number of people here. And hosted a nubmer of their MP games too.

I also have www.Dom3Minions.com (http://www.Dom3Minions.com) registered (for a year now) but dont have much to put there yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It will be moving to a massively upgraded server next week in preparation for the new load Im expecting to hit it when we get Dom3 things to put up.

Just thought Id mention that in case someone wants to support the game with webpages or files, but not quite eager to put up a domain for it.

You can reach me as gandalf on the dom2minions.com server, or PM me here if you have any questions on that.



Nice :-)

[Evil Dave]

My lovely, intelligent, computer-game-playing wife Lace has generously translated the first page of the article Tyrian posted. The second page is illegible. Her French is a little rusty, but she's gotten the main points.

[The first question and answer boil down to "Why another Dom?" "It's fun and the fan support has inspired us."]

Cyber: Can you tell us quickly what are the main changes and innovations of Dom3?

KO: Dom3 will be called "The Awakening".

Cyber: Awakening?

KO: When you make your pretender, it will be asleep, imprisoned by the previous Almighty. With the departure of this predecessor, the demigods and spirits of the world awaken to take its place. When you define your pretender, you chose if you god is also awakened or if it's still asleep [at the beginning of the game?].

The game allows new pretenders, new kinds of objects, and around 1,500 units (Editor: vs. 1,000 in Dom2). The new magics are specific to certain nations. There will be a generator for random maps which gives pretty maps with chains of mountains and special sites. Some nations will now have their cities underground. The mods will be easier to make, and more elements of the game will be modifible: the nations, the recruitment lists, the effects of dominion, etc.

The graphics will be better with prettier battlefields. The AI will be able to build forts. Supercombatants have been weakened, or rather, drain life has been. The economy is more generous, to allow maintainance of larger armies. We have also tried to reduce micromanagement and make the interface more accessible.

Cyber: We'd like you to tell us about the new nations, and the concept of "eras" that replace the themes of Dom2. What are these new concepts, and how do these eras work?

The nations and themes have been remade and organized in three eras. The first era is the most mythological, with weaker technology and richer magic. The themes of the old nations have been organized in these eras. For example, Jotunheim has been transformed into three nations: Niefelhiem, Jotunheim, and Utgaard. Not a big change there. But other nations don't exist in all eras: Marignon doesn't emerge until the intermedia era. Another nation called Maverni could be considered its predcessor. The Maverni are a nation of scheming tribes of druids and vergobrets (editor: Gallic chiefs!). This nation is inspired by the Celts, as described in Caesar's _Commentaries on the Gallic War_. First era Ermor is not at all what it has developed into [in later eras]: it's a nation before its fall, with pontifs, flammen, and augurers. (editor: Roman priests and diviners). There are also nations inspired by the history, myths, and folklore [illegible] Japanese or Hindus. We presently envision twenty nations for each era.


----

Merci beaucoup a Tyrian pour la texte originale, et les apologies pour le Francais pauvre de Lace. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (Many thanks to Tyrian for the original text, and apologies for Lace's poor French.)

Also thanks to Tim Brooks for the tantalizing tidbit! That really helps keep my interest up for Dom3.

[DominionsFan]

Thx for the translation Evil Dave! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[shovah]

i LOVE you lace http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif but seriously thanks a bunch for translating that

[OG_Gleep]

Wow. 20 nations for each era? That is crazy. 500 additional units....thats potentially a lot of new nations.

It seems though that now themes are going to be seperated into full fledged nations, which is cool. I wonder how that is going to work for MP? Are games going to be decided based on era? The sense I got however was that era would define which way a nation leaned on the magic scale. Does anyone have any more detail on this area?

As for buzz. Buzz is created in a couple ways. By the press, and by word of mouth. Word of mouth however is fed by a number of sources, but the biggest is probably printed and online media. There are some pretty big dominions fans at CGW and I am pretty sure I remember reading positive comments in PCG as well. There are a couple different preview phases that are in each magazine.

On a related note, when did the Ads first start appearing in magazines? Ad campaigns can start up to a year before release however (longer if the game gets delayed). But it is a good sign that the release is getting closer.

PS. I thought it was funny, the French Magazine linked in this thread has a forum. On that forum is a Dom III thread, much like this one from what I gathered. In that thread, they link to this thread. Its a small world after all. =)

[Nerfix]

Thanks for the translation. Intresting stuff.

[Alneyan]

The thing I was wondering about is, why had Shrapnel not officially announced its involvement in Dominions III? While a full blown section may not be feasible at the moment, a mention in a press release (or the Release Schedule) would have been enough to make sure that Dominions III *is* going to be a Shrapnel game (alternatively, a post on the forums like Tim's below, or a mention at Illwinter's site). Or did I miss an official announcement from Shrapnel prior to this thread?

I know I care quite a lot about the publishing part, even more than about the developers for sequels. It was Shrapnel's publishing Dominions II that made me hear about the game again (even though I already knew the game), and a change in publishers could have made me drop Dominions altogether. And of course, the publishing area should never be taken for granted: Stars Supernova comes to mind here.

With Shrapnel's involvement in the game officially known, I will sleep tight now; additional information can always come from Illwinter or third party websites. Then again, perhaps I'm in the minority who actually cares about who the publisher is, and who will drop a game solely because it is published by, say, [Insert your most disliked publisher here] (Ubisoft, EA, you name them).

[PDF]

Well, as I'm the one that translated the KO interview for Cyber I maybe can post the original English text http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Will ask permission to everyone involved and come back.
See ya soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

OG_Gleep said:
As for buzz. Buzz is created in a couple ways. By the press, and by word of mouth. Word of mouth however is fed by a number of sources, but the biggest is probably printed and online media. There are some pretty big dominions fans at CGW and I am pretty sure I remember reading positive comments in PCG as well. There are a couple different preview phases that are in each magazine.

On a related note, when did the Ads first start appearing in magazines? Ad campaigns can start up to a year before release however (longer if the game gets delayed). But it is a good sign that the release is getting closer.



There are ads in magazines?
Actually I always divided buzz into two things, publicity and marketing. The publicity side (press releases, contests, word of mouth, articles, screen shots) takes time to do. The marketing (ads, attending conventions, boxed sets) tends to take money. One of the reasons that I thought Shrapnel appealed to independent publishers is that Shrapnel does more "we will take the time" stuff and not so much of the "this chunk of money has to be paid back before profits" stuff. Just my opinion though.

[Tim Brooks]

Or did I miss an official announcement from Shrapnel prior to this thread?



We announced our involvement over a year ago.

A few notes:

Computer Games Magazine, in their February 2006 issue, listed Dominions 3 (half page write-up) as one of the Most Anticipated Games of 2006.

Word of mouth. A number of you in this thread mentioned word of mouth as an important marketing tool. It is THE MOST IMPORTANT marketing tool. Every game we have had that has had a huge following, has gotten there not by advertising, reviews, interviews, etc, but by fans word of mouth. It is the most effective form of promotion. So talk up Dominions 3 and Dominions II!

You must remember we are still selling Dominions II and although there has been a slow down in recent months, it is still usually one of our top 3 or 4 sellers. Selling Dominions II is the best way of promoting Dominions 3. No?

Much more coming v-e-r-y soon. Awakening soon...

[DominionsFan]

I am very excited about Doms 3. I was playing Doms 2 with a few of my friends, like 20-30 hours all week, however I wasnt playing on the net with you guys. We gonna change for Doms 3. Me and my friends will all buy Doms 3, needless to say, and will play on the net as well. The only thing why we was not playing Doms 2 on the "net", thats because PBEM is kinda slow, if you dont know the rest of the players very well. Is there a possiblity for Doms 3, to add additional MP part? Like a game lobby, and the ability to host games from there? I know that doms 3 will be a slow paced game, like Doms 2, its like chess. However the same is true about Civilization 3-4, 1 turn can take 3-6 mins even, or more if the game is big. There you can save the MP game, and all players just load it back, and continue playing.
So all in all a game lobby -> hosting/reloading games directly would be a better option then a PBEM system. I am pretty sure that it would work flawlessly. Tim or anyone can post some opinion about this, also may I ask, that in the vanilla game we only gonna have PBEM MP system like in Doms 2?

[Alneyan]

Tim Brooks said:

Or did I miss an official announcement from Shrapnel prior to this thread?



We announced our involvement over a year ago.



Browsing through the Archive of Arcane Lore (okay, so it was Google), there was indeed a press release to this effect back in October 2004. Well, I guess I was sleeping back then.

I stand corrected and withdraw my point. What Shrapnel should do is, really, imprint souls so that information isn't overlooked (or, worst of all, forgotten!).

[shovah]

i would just like to remind some people of something: there is a large number of people who follow this game and dominions 3 on these forums that dont talk to us

[Kristoffer O]

Do you recognize yourselves? This is a mad cultist: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
http://ulm.illwinter.com/cultist.jpg

Dominions 3 is coming along nicely. JK is sitting beside me at our new Mac and experimenting with a random map of 1500 provinces. Not that 1500 provinces is a setting I would reccomend, but it is good for testing purposes. His Ageless Olm pretender is apparently missing a description.

[shovah]

1500 provinces? ARE YOU MAD!?!?!

[DominionsFan]

Kristoffer O said:
Do you recognize yourselves? This is a mad cultist: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
http://ulm.illwinter.com/cultist.jpg

Dominions 3 is coming along nicely. JK is sitting beside me at our new Mac and experimenting with a random map of 1500 provinces. Not that 1500 provinces is a setting I would reccomend, but it is good for testing purposes. His Ageless Olm pretender is apparently missing a description.



Hey there Kris! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
1500 provinces?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Nerfix]

Kristoffer O said:
Do you recognize yourselves? This is a mad cultist: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
http://ulm.illwinter.com/cultist.jpg

Dominions 3 is coming along nicely. JK is sitting beside me at our new Mac and experimenting with a random map of 1500 provinces. Not that 1500 provinces is a setting I would reccomend, but it is good for testing purposes. His Ageless Olm pretender is apparently missing a description.


OMPG! It's a spittin image of me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kristoffer O]

shovah said:
1500 provinces? ARE YOU MAD!?!?!



Probably only Gandalf and perhaps Boron (IIRC) would play with 1500 provinces http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

JK reports that scrolling is a bit slow with 1500 provinces, but otherwise it seems to work fine.

[Cainehill]

DominionsFAN said:
I know that doms 3 will be a slow paced game, like Doms 2, its like chess. However the same is true about Civilization 3-4, 1 turn can take 3-6 mins even, or more if the game is big. There you can save the MP game, and all players just load it back, and continue playing.



May I point out that with Dom2, turns sometimes take hours? The civilization games, all you do is build a tile for each city, pick a unit to make, move your units, bang you're done - I can't imagine a Civ turn taking more than 5 or 10 minutes, ever, and that's mid-to-late game - the opening turns are more like ... 5 seconds.

Dom2, I've seen people take 10 minutes a turn in the first 5 turns, and by turn 15 or 20, there's always someone taking 15-20 minutes, and occasionally half an hour or more. Scripting and positioning mages, determining items to forge, what to research, watching at least some of the battles, changing the scripts for 5-20 mages, etc.

And this is in the blitzes organized on IRC, where everyone is defintaly there and present. If you're one of the ones who can manage to get a turn done in 5 turns (perhaps because it's a turn of all the mages researching), it's no fun waiting 25 minutes for everyone else to get their turns done.

This is why a fair quantity of the blitz-players get antsy by around turn 15-25 - the amount of time sometimes required to do a turn, and the amount of time conversely required to wait, both get to be too much, unlike the 24 hour server & pbem games.

[DominionsFan]

Cainehill said:

DominionsFAN said:
I know that doms 3 will be a slow paced game, like Doms 2, its like chess. However the same is true about Civilization 3-4, 1 turn can take 3-6 mins even, or more if the game is big. There you can save the MP game, and all players just load it back, and continue playing.



May I point out that with Dom2, turns sometimes take hours? The civilization games, all you do is build a tile for each city, pick a unit to make, move your units, bang you're done - I can't imagine a Civ turn taking more than 5 or 10 minutes, ever, and that's mid-to-late game - the opening turns are more like ... 5 seconds.

Dom2, I've seen people take 10 minutes a turn in the first 5 turns, and by turn 15 or 20, there's always someone taking 15-20 minutes, and occasionally half an hour or more. Scripting and positioning mages, determining items to forge, what to research, watching at least some of the battles, changing the scripts for 5-20 mages, etc.

And this is in the blitzes organized on IRC, where everyone is defintaly there and present. If you're one of the ones who can manage to get a turn done in 5 turns (perhaps because it's a turn of all the mages researching), it's no fun waiting 25 minutes for everyone else to get their turns done.

This is why a fair quantity of the blitz-players get antsy by around turn 15-25 - the amount of time sometimes required to do a turn, and the amount of time conversely required to wait, both get to be too much, unlike the 24 hour server & pbem games.



Yes you are right, it can take enormous amount of time in certain games. However on small maps the games are much faster, imo those could be hosted nicely from a game lobby rather then playing those games PBEM.

[PDF]

10 mins a turn in the first 5 turns of Dom2 means they don't know what they should do. You just have to fill a recruiting queue, change a couple tax sliders, modify one or 2 armies, possibly a couple scripts, and move your 1-2 armies.
Less than 2 minutes for me since after my first 20 games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Nerfix]

Hey, PDF, did you get permission to post the interview?

[PDF]

Nerfix said:
Hey, PDF, did you get permission to post the interview?



I was waiting for someone to ask http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif !
And the answer is ... Yes ! I'll let some more heat accumulate and post it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif - no seriously I'll do that in a couple hours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Cainehill]

PDF said:
10 mins a turn in the first 5 turns of Dom2 means they don't know what they should do. You just have to fill a recruiting queue, change a couple tax sliders, modify one or 2 armies, possibly a couple scripts, and move your 1-2 armies.
Less than 2 minutes for me since after my first 20 games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



While I would personally agree, and have about the same speed taking those first few turns, these are experienced players, regulars on the forums and in the blitz games. I have pretty much no clue why the first turn or two could possibly take so long, but... shrug It's like they're scripting their mages before they have any. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[quantum_mechani]

Cainehill said:

PDF said:
10 mins a turn in the first 5 turns of Dom2 means they don't know what they should do. You just have to fill a recruiting queue, change a couple tax sliders, modify one or 2 armies, possibly a couple scripts, and move your 1-2 armies.
Less than 2 minutes for me since after my first 20 games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



While I would personally agree, and have about the same speed taking those first few turns, these are experienced players, regulars on the forums and in the blitz games. I have pretty much no clue why the first turn or two could possibly take so long, but... shrug It's like they're scripting their mages before they have any. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



*Deploying decoys

*Arranging the rest of the troops to one side of the map and usually as far forward as possible (just slightly farther back than the decoy)

*Rescripting them depending what indies you are facing (for instance vs. barbarians or lizards you usually want to set all your troops halfway back, and have your melee troops on hold while your ranged support whittles them down a bit)

*Setting plain military commanders in the back to(hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)(hold) Stay behind troops

*Optimizing taxes and patrolling

*Setting research

*Optimizing resources and gold to come as close to zero each turn as possible

*'Scout probing' indies

*Scripting prophet/priests (and rescripting them and all the troops each time you hit an undead province)

*Scripting and possibly equipping pretender

*Planning the best order in which to take indies, reevaluating it based on losing a battle or taking heavy losses

*Deciding how much to bid on what mercs, and where to place them

*Recruit indy commanders to shuffle new troops to your expanding armies

*Checking the graphs and HoF (optional)

*Watching battles (optional for most)

I must admit for me what probably takes me the most time is evaluating indies. It can be very complex to deploy the minimum force to take the best provinces, and then also have it planned out how the army should move and be resupplied with troops in order to continue to take new provinces every turn with no breaks for the maximum amount of time.

[PDF]

Here's the full, uncut original version of the interview granted by Kristoffer O. for Cyberstratege, the French strategy game mag (go see us at www.cyberstratege.com (http://www.cyberstratege.com) !).
With kind permission of Kristoffer and Théophile Monnier, Cyberstratege founder/chief redactor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Screenshots to come soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Cyber - We've had Dominions:PPP in 2000, Dominions II in 2003, now Dominions 3 : what keeps you continuing to develop this title ?

KO : The fun of it. Positive feedback on our games. When I hear that people
like what I do I feel inspired and want to add more stuff.


Cyber - Tell us briefly what will be the main changes/new stuff in Dom3 !

KO : Dominions 3 is called the Awakening. Awakening? Yep. When ou create your pretender he/she is dormant, bound or imprisoned by the previous pantocrator. With his departure the demigods and spirits of the world are awakening to don his mantle. When you design your pretender you must choose whether your god is already awake or if he/she is still asleep or bound.

There are new pretenders, new spells, new items and approximately 1500 units. New national summons for several nations. There is a random map generator that generates nice maps with mountain ranges and special sites. Some nations build cave cities. Modding will be easier and more elements in the game will be accessible to modding. Nations, recruitment queues, special dominion effects etc will be moddable. Graphics are better with nicer battle fields. The AI builds forts. Super combattants are nerfed, or rather life drain is. The economy is more generous to allow bigger armies. We have also tried to decrease micromanagement and make the UI more accessible.

Cyber - We've heard of the new nations and the era concept replacing Dom2 themes... Who are the newcomers ? How will eras work ?

KO : Nations and themes are remade and organized in three eras. The first one is a more mythological/low tech/magic rich era. Most of the old nations had themes that are now remade into nations of the three eras. For example Jotunheim changed into the three nations Niefelheim, Jotunheim
and Utgård. No big change here. Other nations do not exist in all eras. Marignon emerges in the middle era. Another nation named Marverni could be viewed as their predecessors. Marverni is a nation of tribes led by druids and vergobrets. The nation is influenced by the celts as described in Caesars war commentaries. Early Ermor is not at all what
they will become in later eras. It is a nation before the fall, with pontifices, flamen and augurs. There are also nations influenced by hindu and japanese history, myth and folklore. There are about 20 nations in each era.

Cyber - Beginners to Dom2 were hurt be the steep learning curve and lack of tutorial and in-game advice : has anything been done for them ?

KO : We are trying to make the game more accessible. The manual will be a lot better (not written by us) and more game mechanics will be explained.

Cyber - Again for newcomers, there is no real "campaign" in Dom2 (as for example in the HoMM series), allowing a more easy way to play solo and learn the game. Why that ? It's a difficult work but gratifying for solo players (and a commercial argument !). Is something like this in Dom3 ?

KO : Not currently, but if we decide to make a campaign for the game it is something that will be added when the game is nearly finished I believe.

Cyber - On the other hand Veterans rumbled about the AI weaknesses : poor recruiting choices (hordes of cheap ineffective troops starving eventually, no castle building), reliance on buffs and cheap summons in tactical battles : did you improve the AI ? One thing that I would have seen is the possibility to give specific AI advantages (x% more gold/ressources/design points/supply...) on a "game" basis without having to resort to map editing

KO : There have been some changes. The AI now builds castles. I'm not sure what other changes are implemented.


Cyber - Another frequent issue was the huge micromanagement in middle-end game, when it was very hard to properly keep track of item and gems allocation : something new here ?

KO : I barely remember what changes has been made here (I haven't played dom2 for almost 2 years). There are changes, but there will probably still be some issues left when beta testing starts. Dominions is a complex game and some micro management will always be there. Hopefully Dominions 3 will not scare too many players away. Hmm, I just remembered a nice feature. All commanders has small icons representing items in his possession.

Cyber- Dominions 2 is a mostly-MP game, yet has no provision at all for diplomacy between players, even at its simplest form (AI nations can be declared allied though). It can be seen as a feature - after all the pretenders are all enemies- but some players play team games, and in nearly all games there are temporary alliances...

KO : The feature remains at the moment. I'm not certain about how this will develop.

Cyber - Fans did make serious rebalance work (spells, scales, creatures and items) through mods, did you take that as an input (or at least an influence) for Dom3 ? In particular, there's the question of the nearly-complete domination of big blood summons in the end game, has it been addressed or do you consider it a "feature"?

KO : It might have been considered a feature, but dom3 features another story. Blood summons will not be as dominant as in dom2.

Cyber - Speaking about mods and map editing, what will be the new features ? Will it be possible to create new spells and items ?

KO : The modding part is not yet finished, but the code has been remade so that modding will be easier to implement. Nation modding will definitely be more developed. Creation of new spells and items seem unlikely.


Cyber - What is the plan now for Illwinter ? Dominions 4, CoE 3, something else, or will you fall into slumber as the Rimtursar did ?

KO : Sleep seems fine. Actually I have no idea. The last couple of years have been incredibly fun and rewarding, but I'm not sure where to go now. I work as a teacher and that is also quite rewarding from time to time.
I'll probably continue having fun. Fun might lead to another game title.
Who knows?

Cyber - Lastly, will we still get "Nagot Gick Fell" in Dom3 ?

KO : Always http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[alexti]

I agree with quantum_mechanic. There's a lot of important stuff to do in the first turns. Evaluating indies, planning future army movement and scripting for the battles are probably most time consuming for me.

[Evil Dave]

Thanks, PDF!

Seems Lace didn't do half-bad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[alexti]

Saber Cherry said:
But Stardock is an indy company, and their constant info trickle (aka "hype") netted a massive community and incredible launch...



Stardock is not really an indy company. Games are just not their main focus. So they have existing customer base from non-game products. This makes it hard to compare Stardock with purely game companies...


Saber Cherry said:But all together, they worked very well... since the world has been craving 4x-ish games recently. CivIV largely satisfied the Civ fans, GalCiv2 largely satisifed the Master of Orion fans, and now there are just the Master of Magic / Age of Wonders fans looking for a deep Fantasy TBS... especially when HOMMV has Starforce, and only a 50% chance of being good; and isn't quite in the same genre.

Maybe Dominions 3 can fill the void and become huge, with enough hype.


I don't think so. Dom2 is (and thus, I suppose Dom3 will be) hardcore strategy game while Civ4 or GalCiv2 are more like "strategy light" games. They have sandbox aspect (like building large cities, developing them and seeing the empire grow) which attract casual players. Dominions is much more strategy-centric which probably is interesting for much fewer people. So I would think Dominions is very much a niche game (and I like it to stay that way - as a strategic game it is much better than Civ4 or GalCiv2 :> )

[Nerfix]

Hmmm, nation and spell modding would be nice, but oh well.

Sounds good so far.

[DominionsFan]

PDF said:
Here's the full, uncut original version of the interview granted by Kristoffer O. for Cyberstratege, the French strategy game mag (go see us at www.cyberstratege.com (http://www.cyberstratege.com) !).
With kind permission of Kristoffer and Théophile Monnier, Cyberstratege founder/chief redactor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Screenshots to come soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Cyber - On the other hand Veterans rumbled about the AI weaknesses : poor recruiting choices (hordes of cheap ineffective troops starving eventually, no castle building), reliance on buffs and cheap summons in tactical battles : did you improve the AI ? One thing that I would have seen is the possibility to give specific AI advantages (x% more gold/ressources/design points/supply...) on a "game" basis without having to resort to map editing

KO : There have been some changes. The AI now builds castles. I'm not sure what other changes are implemented.





How come that Kris aint sure that what AI changes has been made? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif
This should take a very important part in Doms3, I mean a reworked AI. We all know that the MP part is very important, but regardles, even myself was playing a lot against the AI on the hardest settings, but the challenge what was offered wasnt enough there sadly, after a period at least. Imho a decent AI castle building/recruiting/summoning algorythm is what was missed in Doms2 first of all.

[Endoperez]

Nerfix said:
Hmmm, nation and spell modding would be nice, but oh well.




I think you meant ITEM and spell modding. Nation modding was said to be "more developed".

Thanks for that, PDF! I quess I should thank KO and Théophile Monnier as well. Theophile is an interesting name, BTW, if 'théo' is the same as 'theo' in 'theology'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Nerfix]

Ah, yes, indeed. Item modding.

[Kristoffer O]

> How come that Kris aint sure that what AI changes has been made?

I don't program the AI.

On the other hand JK is unaware of some of the new monsters and nations.

Our ignorances completes each other. We are certain that there are always thing we cannot answer. If we talk we might conjure a picture of a special feature or mechanic, but it will probaby be only partially right. Therefore we have betatesters. They might give us answers to some of our questions. They both play the nations and fight with the mechanics.

[DominionsFan]

Ah ok, I see Kris.

[PDF]

Endoperez said:

Nerfix said:
Hmmm, nation and spell modding would be nice, but oh well.



Thanks for that, PDF! I quess I should thank KO and Théophile Monnier as well. Theophile is an interesting name, BTW, if 'théo' is the same as 'theo' in 'theology'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


Yes, it's the same "Theo", and if you know your Greek somewhat note that the second term of "Théophile" is derived from "philos", meaning "loving".
In fact his name means "God loving"... But I can tell you he sucks at Dom2 ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Nerfix]

PDF said:Screenshots to come soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



So, what about those screenshots? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[OG_Gleep]

Word of Mouth will only get you so far, and for the most part with new products your mining your current customer base. My company used word of mouth for the first 15 years, and it did well enough to support my Grandma and Grandpa. When my father took over, the growth of the first year and a half was more then all 15 years combined...and that was only a minimal marketing budget.

It takes me 2-3 previews before I remember a game. I got really hyped about spore when I saw the video demo of it, but it took someone mentioning the article for me to remember I had already seen it. The preview in CGW was one screenshot and a couple paragraphs. IMHO your going to need multiple magazines, with more screenshots (the masses love screenshots) to generate a buzz outside your current fanbase.

PS. It took the Vs article in CGW for me to buy Dominions II. And as much as I love it, I can't sell it to any of my friends.

[PDF]

Here they come, Nerfix (and the other too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )!
Links to pics (images hosted elsewhere to preserve forum reading, and I don't know how to make thumbnails here) :

http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/agarta.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/angel.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/bandar1.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/bandar2.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/burning.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/burning2.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/caelum1.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis2.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis3.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis4.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis5.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis6.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/ctis7.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/deep_oceania_vs_atalantis_1.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/deep_oceania_vs_atalantis_2.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/hydra.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/hydra2.jpg
http://pascal.difolco.free.fr/mainscreen_agarta.jpg

Isn't all that nice ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DominionsFan]

awesome thx for the screenies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nerfix]

SQUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...!

*dies from lack of air after he has squeed his lungs out*

[Nerfix]

The mainscreen/overland map looks awesome!

And so do the battle pics! What's that big angel? The grass looks awesome too!

I mean...this is...this too many wonderful things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Boron]

Kristoffer O said:

shovah said:
1500 provinces? ARE YOU MAD!?!?!



Probably only Gandalf and perhaps Boron (IIRC) would play with 1500 provinces http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

JK reports that scrolling is a bit slow with 1500 provinces, but otherwise it seems to work fine.


Yeah Boron will be insane enough to try such a game probably http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
More important than the province limit is though the unit limit, may i ask how large it is in Dominions 3?
Imho the unit limit was the biggest flaw of both former Dominions. If you tell me that Dominions 3 has a unit limit of 1 million units or even higher i am happy and will buy Dominions 3 immediately when it gets released http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[archaeolept]

nice that you can see what gems the commander is carrying just by looking at the front of the unit... hopefully this includes magic items - no more endless searching for that missing hammer, I'm guessing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Chazar]

Hmm, snowflakes falling in the deep sea and still no signs of obstacles on the battlefield. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif The overview screen looks nice and seems much more informative/useful: Scale strengths without mouse hovering, army type overlays, gem pouch displays,.. Neat! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Two important screenshots are still missing though: The tactical setup and the keyboard shortcut infoscreen...

[OG_Gleep]

Dammit, now I want it even more.

[shovah]

me likey (especially those ctisian chariots)

[PashaDawg]

Yay! Pictures!!!

[shovah]

i think we can all thank pasha for that enlightening post *claps*

[alexti]

archaeolept said:
nice that you can see what gems the commander is carrying just by looking at the front of the unit... hopefully this includes magic items - no more endless searching for that missing hammer, I'm guessing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


This looks like a very important improvement to me - just yesterday I've found the hammer lost couple of years ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Daynarr]

Boron said:
More important than the province limit is though the unit limit, may i ask how large it is in Dominions 3?
Imho the unit limit was the biggest flaw of both former Dominions. If you tell me that Dominions 3 has a unit limit of 1 million units or even higher i am happy and will buy Dominions 3 immediately when it gets released http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.



Unit limit on main map or unit limit on battlefield?

[Cainehill]

He's talking about the unit limit in the game, period. On huge maps like Faerun, especially with themes with auto-spawns, a limit is exceeded around mid-game - all of a sudden, scouting starts to work very erratically, you can't even always see the troops in a province neighboring your own.

At some point I understand the game can also crash, but haven't seen that - the invisible troop side effect has been bad enough for me to avoid large maps since knowing of it. ( As if the micro-management and 3 hour turns weren't bad enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[Daynarr]

That's fixed.

[WraithLord]

PDF said:
Here they come, Nerfix (and the other too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )!
Links to pics (images hosted elsewhere to preserve forum reading, and I don't know how to make thumbnails here) :
...
Isn't all that nice ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Very nice! Thanks PDF.

The thing I find most important are the reasons the devs contd. to work on Dom, those reasons (the fun factor and the supportive feedback from fans) make it less likely that they will drop Dom.
I find Dom to be *the* best strategic game and I hope it will retain its uniqueness. Here is to the longevity of Dom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[B0rsuk]

Great, now we get monkeys as sacred units !

[Endoperez]

Damn douple-post.

[Endoperez]

Post#387916 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=387916)

Ha! " Bandar means 'monkey' and log means 'people'" indeed! There's a divination for you! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

The screenshots with monkeys were titled bandar_1 etc.

[Gandalf Parker]

Hmmm from what I see, it would appear that we have taught them not to consider their logical-based limits to be our logical limits (OK Im not logical. 1500 provinces? Im gonna have FUN). So Im guessing that the same thinking is present in every ceiling limit that we encountered in Dom2.

And what are some of those. Monkey Nation? Bandar? (I saw a god on their side of the battle)
And another that looks trollish with pale skin. Agarta by the screenshot name. Is that the "underground city" thing that was hinted at?

The map views show icon-style maps. Is that what the new random map generator built into the game puts out? Not like the DomMap random maps at www.Dom2Minions.com (http://www.Dom2Minions.com)

More screenshots! More screenshots! less battle shots and more of the managment screens.
I take it that these are special gifts for PDF's magazine? I cant use them on www.Dom3Minions.com (http://www.Dom3Minions.com)?
Can I link to the article at least? Or maybe this thread?

Are we getting a Dom3 shirt to replace the Dom2 one?
http://www.cafepress.com/shrapnelgames?pid=2837642

I guess that alot of this is still in flux due to beta testing. *sigh*

Gandalf Parker
-- Dominions 2:
The Ascension is yours!
(some assembly required)

[Cainehill]

Gandalf Parker said:
More screenshots! More screenshots! less battle shots and more of the managment screens.




Heh. At least now we know that plants can grow out of the backs of scorpions on the battlefield. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But yeh, the management screens are what I want to see, albeit the more detailed units on the battlefield should help tell what's what.

[Nerfix]

I wonder if that's the early, mythological era C'tis we see in the pics...

[Nerfix]

Also, have you guys noticed how those chariots seem to be in columns insted of the typical boxes?

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah they are nicely lined up. Now if they have flanking working then Im (Pangaea) going to be in trouble from the more armored nations like Ulm.

[shovah]

i wouldve thought flanking would be good for pangea? what with all their flying harpys and f9 centaurs

[PDF]

Gandalf Parker said:
Hmmm from what I see, it would appear that we have taught them not to consider their logical-based limits to be our logical limits (OK Im not logical. 1500 provinces? Im gonna have FUN). So Im guessing that the same thinking is present in every ceiling limit that we encountered in Dom2.

And what are some of those. Monkey Nation? Bandar? (I saw a god on their side of the battle)
And another that looks trollish with pale skin. Agarta by the screenshot name. Is that the "underground city" thing that was hinted at?

The map views show icon-style maps. Is that what the new random map generator built into the game puts out? Not like the DomMap random maps at www.Dom2Minions.com (http://www.Dom2Minions.com)

More screenshots! More screenshots! less battle shots and more of the managment screens.
I take it that these are special gifts for PDF's magazine? I cant use them on www.Dom3Minions.com (http://www.Dom3Minions.com)?
Can I link to the article at least? Or maybe this thread?

Are we getting a Dom3 shirt to replace the Dom2 one?
http://www.cafepress.com/shrapnelgames?pid=2837642

I guess that alot of this is still in flux due to beta testing. *sigh*

Gandalf Parker
-- Dominions 2:
The Ascension is yours!
(some assembly required)



Gandalf,
I think there's no problem linking to the screenies on your site as long as you give credits to IW and Cyber (indeed they were gifts):) . As for copying them I will get confirmation but think it's ok too under same conditions (anyway we have no means of preventing it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif )

[Pocus]

are you sure PDF you had the right to disclose these screenies? I thought Theo had it from IW, but just for the mag.

[Nerfix]

Gandalf Parker said:
Yeah they are nicely lined up. Now if they have flanking working then Im (Pangaea) going to be in trouble from the more armored nations like Ulm.

But does this mean we get alternative battle formations? Like columns? Da da DUN! =O

[shovah]

or maybe loose formation to avoid arrows (a non airshield counter to flaming/banefire arrows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

[Annette]

Gandalf Parker said:
More screenshots! More screenshots! less battle shots and more of the managment screens.
I take it that these are special gifts for PDF's magazine? I cant use them on www.Dom3Minions.com (http://www.Dom3Minions.com)?
Can I link to the article at least? Or maybe this thread?



Posting the screenshots is perfectly fine with us; they were not exclusive to Cyberstratege . The same screenshots were provided to Computer Games Magazine for their "Most Anticipated Games of 2006" article. Theophile may prefer, however, that we provide them directly to you rather than your reproducing them from the article?

The interview and the article itself ARE exclusive to Cyberstratege and may only be reprinted with their full permission.

We appreciate the good word when you link to any thread on our forums, or any part of our website for that matter. As you know, that's what helps us get the word out to the right audience. And we'd also appreciate any plugs you give the fine folks at Cyberstratege.


Are we getting a Dom3 shirt to replace the Dom2 one?
http://www.cafepress.com/shrapnelgames?pid=2837642



In case you guys don't already know, Gandalf loves tshirts!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[ioticus]

How many people are beta testing Dominions 3? Just curious.

[Gandalf Parker]

That usually depends on what level of testing its in. Crash-tests, play tests, balance tests, then nitpicking over things like the intro screen and spell checking. And usually the NDA (non-dislosure agreement) makes it a no-no to say. But thats up to them I guess.

I dont want to start a flood but I figure that if its still early that its a good time to bring up the favorite wishlist stuff in case its a "oh yeah we were going to do that" kindof item.
But on the other hand, I dont want to move back the relase date any http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[NTJedi]

Tim Brooks said:
Word of mouth. A number of you in this thread mentioned word of mouth as an important marketing tool. It is THE MOST IMPORTANT marketing tool. Every game we have had that has had a huge following, has gotten there not by advertising, reviews, interviews, etc, but by fans word of mouth. It is the most effective form of promotion. So talk up Dominions 3 and Dominions II!



I agree, but besides the recent foreign interview us fans have received very very little information. As a result when friends and relatives gather then someone tosses the question: "Hey any new games coming out?"....... the gamers haven't heard or seen anything new about DOMINIONS_3 and thus no word of mouth.


Tim Brooks said:
You must remember we are still selling Dominions II and although there has been a slow down in recent months, it is still usually one of our top 3 or 4 sellers. Selling Dominions II is the best way of promoting Dominions 3. No?



Well it shouldn't be your only way of promoting... within the last 10 months there has been very little promotion for Dominions_3. Since Dominions is one of your top selling games it should definitely have an advertising strategy which grows upon getting closer to the release date.

If you want WORD OF MOUTH to work... give those future customers "continously new info" to use for spreading the word. The ohhh lets do advertising only the last 3 months is definitely not the best method.

[PDF]

Pocus said:
are you sure PDF you had the right to disclose these screenies? I thought Theo had it from IW, but just for the mag.



I asked KO and Théo permissions before, don't worry Pocus ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

NT Jedi said
Since Dominions is one of your top selling games it should definitely have an advertising strategy which grows upon getting closer to the release date.



Dont go wishing advertising on them. The developers might not want that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Unless you mean more PR releases


Annette said
In case you guys don't already know, Gandalf loves tshirts!!!!



Ok then, how about a mug with the keypress chart on it. Im thinking that when this game is released Im going to NEED a mug for all of those long late nights.
Please.... just.. one.. more.. turn...

Gandalf Parker

[Annette]

Gandalf Parker said:
Ok then, how about a mug with the keypress chart on it. Im thinking that when this game is released Im going to NEED a mug for all of those long late nights.
Please.... just.. one.. more.. turn...




You know I love you, Gandalf!

As to the question of when to begin the "hype"...too soon, is no good...too late, no good...I feel like Goldilocks. We don't hold Illwinter, or any of our developers, to a schedule. When it's ready, it's ready. Illwinter does not need the pressure of delivering on some arbitrary timeline, nor are we inclined to request it. We want to minimize the chances of the developement and testing process to be pressured by the "is it ready yet?" mindset. So we begin the "hype" when we feel the time is right. I hope that explains our point of view; we've learned through experience http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[NTJedi]

Annette said:
As to the question of when to begin the "hype"...too soon, is no good...too late, no good...I feel like Goldilocks. We don't hold Illwinter, or any of our developers, to a schedule. When it's ready, it's ready. Illwinter does not need the pressure of delivering on some arbitrary timeline, nor are we inclined to request it. We want to minimize the chances of the developement and testing process to be pressured by the "is it ready yet?" mindset. So we begin the "hype" when we feel the time is right. I hope that explains our point of view; we've learned through experience http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



No need to set any specific timeline, we care more about the game being good than being done fast. Gamers are more curious about the content, improvements of artificial intelligence of computer opponents, and new game features. Dropping small pieces of information or screenshots is enough to get word of mouth working. Giving almost zero information for the last 10 months WILL NOT work as well as giving small pieces of information/screenshots for the last 10 months. In fact too much silence is bad because fans become worried or upset as seen with Triumph Studios.

Gal_Civ_2 was(is?) the #1 selling software at Walmart... not just games but all software. It's not enough to only examine what's worked in the past for you, but to examine what's working for others. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
That last sentence is true for almost any type of business.

[Kristoffer O]

The 10 month silence is more of a IW silence than a shrapnel silence (and 10 months is a bit of an exaggeration). Unless we give them screens and info they can't give you any info. I've been quite bad at writing dev diaries as I said I would. Probably because I mostly write when I'm in a good mood and have little work at school (this fall was a tough one and dev diaries were not my top priority, but now everything is brighter).

But there has been some info leaking. The most anticipated game at the start of this year for example.

I hope you haven't lost faith young prophet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nerfix]

But do we get new battle formations or were those neat columns of C'tisian chariots just an illusion?

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that GalCiv is released under a different publishing plan. It doesnt work well for comparison. I know alot of game developers that dont want to go the big-layout/long-wait route.

[PDF]

Gandalf Parker said:
I think that GalCiv is released under a different publishing plan. It doesnt work well for comparison. I know alot of game developers that dont want to go the big-layout/long-wait route.



Not initially - I mean some devs do not want to be slave to a publisher funding and marketing timelines.
I don't think it's the case for GalCiv, and would not for Dom2 either : in these cases the devs made the game as they wanted, and made it published without being publisher-dependent.
But I don't think there's that much people that doesn't want their games to be sold in larger quantity than they could just do themselves !

[Gandalf Parker]

They dont if it means putting off profit checks for years and continually fighting over doubting the real sales figures. Visit Brads rants on the subject.

Obviously it has its advantages but its not the perfect answer for everyone. Most developers I know (who bother checking into it first) decide to go with a publisher who will do more publicity and support that doesnt involve as much money layout as the other marketing schemes. At least for the first few versions. You have to be in a specific situation to be able to gamble on the "big investment for big payoff later" arrangment. Both the developer and the publisher.

My opinion of course, I dont want to paint Shrapnel or Illwinter as being anything in particular. Im just saying that there are pros and cons to everything, even advertising for the bigger sales market. Most of the developers I refer here are not in a position to want that.

[NTJedi]

Kristoffer O said:
...because I mostly write when I'm in a good mood and have little work at school (this fall was a tough one and dev diaries were not my top priority, but now everything is brighter).

But there has been some info leaking. The most anticipated game at the start of this year for example.

I hope you haven't lost faith young prophet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Definitely haven't lost faith... no hurry either... if you need an extra 6 months to add more content and better computer AI, let the fans know and we'll all support the delay.
What information about the game you pass to us fans we'll be able to use for 'word of mouth' and topics in other forums which in the long run makes us happy and increases game sales. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Olive]

Does anyone go sometimes to the main shrapnell homepage instead of using direct links to the board ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/1.htm

[Endoperez]

Olive said:
Does anyone go sometimes to the main shrapnell homepage instead of using direct links to the board ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/1.htm



No. Thanks for the link!

[Nerfix]

Olive said:
Does anyone go sometimes to the main shrapnell homepage instead of using direct links to the board ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/1.htm


*fangirly noises, spasming*

But shouldn't it be "III" on the cover? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nerfix]

*looks at the new screenies*

THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!

THE INTERFACE IS SO COOL. THE LIGHTNING BOLTS LOOK COOL! Some of the units are relally good looking!

Too much wonderful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

(is this the positve feedback? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

[Kristoffer O]

I suppose it is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jurri]

Winged monkeys!! Woohoo!

[Ed Kolis]

Eh? An *OZ* race???

[Cainehill]

And winged pigs! I'll win when pigs fly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[RonD]

Somewhere, Margaret Hamilton is smiling a wicked smile.

[WraithLord]

Screenshots are great indeed.

Oh, and I have pre-ordered the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nerfix]

It's at least supposed to be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

EDIT: This post was supposed to quote KO. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Evil Dave]

excellent!

the two screenshots of the conjuration spells make it look like spell lists can be filtered in some way. that would be most excellent.

i wonder if there are also more distinct arrows for stealthy movement; that would also be great.

[shovah]

i like the spell list too (and was rather pleased to see catoblepas and giant toad among the spells) and the spell effects in battle (especially the lightning) are jawdropping compared to dom II

[Blofeld]

There's also spell damage shown on battle animation screen - look closely at lightning and pillar of fire striking.
A nice little touch, I wonder if it also shows for melee or ranged wounds.

[Kristoffer O]

> look like spell lists can be filtered in some way. that would be most excellent.

They can.

> was rather pleased to see catoblepas and giant toad among the spells

Nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

> A nice little touch, I wonder if it also shows for melee or ranged wounds.

They do.

[OG_Gleep]

Yeah I was quite excited that the spell list had some form of orginization. Its quite daunting once you get a bunch of things researched.