OT: Heroes of Annihilated Empires open beta!

[DominionsFan]

http://www.gsc-game.com/index.php?t=community&s=forums&lang=en&s_game_type =fg&sec_id=24&thm_id=289

Beta version will be available to download on apr 25.
This game looks like Masters of Magic in 3d. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Official site:
http://www.heroesofae.com/en/

[WraithLord]

This game looks awesome.
Its strange I wasn't aware of it up until now, given that I usually scourge the web searching for MOMish games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Thanks for posting this.

[DominionsFan]

Indeed, I really cant wait for the beta. I think this game will be released on the fall or winter. So we gonna have HoMM 5, Dominions 3, and this....what can I say? Awesome! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[NTJedi]

I'm surprised more developers haven't moved towards making a sequel of MoM... or a similar game of the type considering all the praise MoM gets in the forums.

Some good news... Stardock might be making the official sequel for MoM.

[DominionsFan]

NTJedi said:
I'm surprised more developers haven't moved towards making a sequel of MoM... or a similar game of the type considering all the praise MoM gets in the forums.

Some good news... Stardock might be making the official sequel for MoM.



Well Age of Wonders I. and II. was very close to the old MoM.

PS. Its apr. 25, but the beta of HoAE is still not out!! I was checking the site like 10 times today so far.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[OG_Gleep]

Anyword?

[OG_Gleep]

Legend of Ares Beta is out. Just got my key. Let me know if anyone signs up.

http://www.fileplanet.com/162708/160000/fileinfo/The-Legend-of-Ares-Client-[Subscriber-Only]?r=5

[Cainehill]

NTJedi said:
I'm surprised more developers haven't moved towards making a sequel of MoM... or a similar game of the type considering all the praise MoM gets in the forums.

Some good news... Stardock might be making the official sequel for MoM.



Unless I'm mistaken, that's old word : 1-2 years back there was talk about Stardock having picked up the MoM license, but it didn't happen. Given what they've done with GalCiv2 though .... Heavily moddable MoM anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

There are actually a number of MoM projects in SourceForge which I keep an eye on. There is an official site for keeping track of all of the MoM 2 projects, and a petition to get an official MoM2 made. Here is a good starting point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic

If any of them ever look like a decent version hitting beta then I will stear them toward Shrapnel. But so far they all get close then ruin it by extensive modifications into a new game (such as leylines) or by trying to make it multiplayer.

[PrinzMegaherz]

A strange beta if you have are forced to pay for playing it


OG_Gleep said:
Legend of Ares Beta is out. Just got my key. Let me know if anyone signs up.

?r=5]http://www.fileplanet.com/162708/160000/fileinfo/The-Legend-of-Ares-Client-[Subscriber-Only]?r=5 (http://www.fileplanet.com/162708/160000/fileinfo/The-Legend-of-Ares-Client-[Subscriber-Only)

[DominionsFan]

Hehe Legend of Ares....I dont think that it can "kick into the ball" near WoW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

..now back to the topic..I dont get it. Why is a company advertising an open beta for a given day, if they wont "release" it...?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Blofeld]

Cainehill said:

NTJedi said:
I'm surprised more developers haven't moved towards making a sequel of MoM... or a similar game of the type considering all the praise MoM gets in the forums.

Some good news... Stardock might be making the official sequel for MoM.



Unless I'm mistaken, that's old word : 1-2 years back there was talk about Stardock having picked up the MoM license, but it didn't happen. Given what they've done with GalCiv2 though .... Heavily moddable MoM anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I believe they ran into legal obstacles in aquiring the license, but as I was browsing Galciv2 page recently, there was a post in which they looked for people to hire to work on a MMO Society game and an "unnamed fantasy strategy".
It might be a glitter of hope.

[DominionsFan]

HERE HERE HERE!!!
Download the HoAE open beta from here:

http://gameswelt.de/pc/downloads/demos/detail.php?item_id=56292

[PrinzMegaherz]

Thanks!
I love you!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

DominionsFAN said:
HERE HERE HERE!!!
Download the HoAE open beta from here:

http://gameswelt.de/pc/downloads/demos/detail.php?item_id=56292

[Gandalf Parker]

The official site requires pay and the other site doesnt?

[OG_Gleep]

What is the talk about paying? I didn't pay for Ares..unless your talking about fileplanet dues.

[OG_Gleep]

And just FYI theres a link to the beta on the main page. Its not off a german site either..dunno if that matters though. But its a hellofalot faster. Downloading it 4x faster actually.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes it matters, thank you.
The way it was discussed it sounded like the publisher had one method setup and the other site was offering a way around it.
We dont really get to recommend such download sites here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PrinzMegaherz]

No, it was a mistake from my part. I could not find any other downloadlinks, so I assumed that gamefiles was the exclusive download provider out there. Game files demands membership before you are allowed to download the particular file, hence my mistake. The other link works fine

[OG_Gleep]

For the Heroes beta? Theres a link on the main page. It links directly to the file, no mirrors.

[OG_Gleep]

Ok on to the game. I like it...but once you get to a certain point, it becomes impossible. Anyone have any idea what your supposed to do? did I miss something or are you supposed to be able to power through endless mobs?

That was one of the coolest movies though since dawn of war.

[DominionsFan]

Indeed I love this beta also. IT contains only a small part of the game, hence there will be many races/spells etc. etc. but I love the idea of mass troops. I am just wondering, this is scripted that the AI is sending the mass troops or it is just recruiting them and sending them to attack in groups?

[OG_Gleep]

I found a building that is responsible for the undead masses. It spits them out pretty fast then they move in a group once they reach a certain number. I haven't found a source for the orcish units that seem to travel in similar numbers.

[DominionsFan]

wow this game gonna be fantastic. The AI sent like 500 undeads at me in the same time, my army was wasted. Also imagine the multiplayer...I just cant wait for this game really. So far I've found 1 bug so far. My own unit's pathfindig is bad. This is weird. The pathfinding of the enemy troops are excellent.
I also love as the units are reacting. The missile troops are trying to avoid to go to melee and if you place them in a group, and a melee group is charging into them, they move away and spread across the area.

Oh btw NTJedi and OG, Ive seen that you are already registered on the official HoAE forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[OG_Gleep]

Yeah I normally register at any forum for a game I'm interested in.

Are you supposed to build units?

[NTJedi]

DominionsFAN said:
Oh btw NTJedi and OG, Ive seen that you are already registered on the official HoAE forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif



Yes the game looks good !

Hopefully the developers post and browse their forum once in awhile. I've seen the Bioware and Oblivion developers for NeverWinterNights2 are posting and browsing the forums almost every day.

[DominionsFan]

OG_Gleep said:
Yeah I normally register at any forum for a game I'm interested in.

Are you supposed to build units?



Of course, I built the base using those pixies, and made a small force just to explore a bit. Then at mid map I killed a small group of enemy skeletons. 2 mins later, while I was messing around my base, Ive seen a warning that my units are under attack. I scrolled there, and I was like OMG....like 500 undeads were killing my troops there.

Jedi, I also hope that the devs gonna read the feedback etc...btw afaik the game will be shipped with an editor, but Im not sure that how powerful it will be. Probably the usual map/scenario/campaign[hopefully] editor.

[Gandalf Parker]

NTJedi said:

DominionsFAN said:
Oh btw NTJedi and OG, Ive seen that you are already registered on the official HoAE forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif



Yes the game looks good !

Hopefully the developers post and browse their forum once in awhile. I've seen the Bioware and Oblivion developers for NeverWinterNights2 are posting and browsing the forums almost every day.



Those are my favorite forums. Its why Ive always loved Shrapnel

[NTJedi]

Yes the Illwinter developers are also good with posting on the forum... considering how many of them exist in the company... they do great work!

[Gandalf Parker]

They probably are still that active. I just figure its the beta-tester group that is keeping them dancing lately

[OG_Gleep]

Ok I figured out what to do...didn't realize those sprites were builders. Totally changes the game.

[PrinzMegaherz]

I'm a bit underwhelmed:

The game gets repetitive very fast. When I finished the level, my hero had around 1200 kills, from killing the same wave of enemies again and again. Standard strategy: Cast healing tree on your front line troops, shoot that Ice Arrow at the weaker blue things and repeat until you have won.
Other things I don't like: The game gives you very few information about what's going on. I'am not quite sure what activating those monoliths does (those with a yellow or red glow). And there is no way to see the names of the enemy troops or their stats, which would be a great help to get a grip on what unit you should use to counter them.

[DominionsFan]

Prinz, this is an open beta test. You dont see most of the game content, only an idea that how the final game gonna look like. 100% that there will be enemy unit descritpions. Also dont forget there will be lot of spells not just the ice arrow of course to attack the enemy, many races/units etc. etc. Even this beta AI is doing great, it is moving mass groups of troops, I think the devs can script the AI easily and maybe the players can script it as well in the final version...example: how big groups the AI will create and attack etc. Btw the ice arrow is really working great against mass skeleton groups in this open beta. I think the final game gonna be awesome, not to mention the multiplayer part.

[Gandalf Parker]

It seems to be a niche game. Some people will love it. My son for example tends to love berserker style games. And for sales purposes I can see the logic of doing that part first and maybe working on the more strategic parts later

[OG_Gleep]

Its simply ok. It lacks polish, and typically these open betas are more like glorified demos. At this stage in the game 99% of the time, they aren't looking for feedback on gameplay, they are looking for technical issues....trying to get it out on as many different boxes as they can. We don't have access to all the content, but its a good indication of what the final content will look like.

The Good -

+ The Setting - Elves, Undead, Swords, Magic + Tanks, Fighter Jets = Very Cool.
+ The Intro/Outro Movie - Coolest since DoW
+ The amount of units you can control and face. I love a game that lets me build as many units as I want. I'm sure theres a limit, but I didn't hit it.

The Bad -

- The Engine. Someone over there made that intro movie, so they have the artistic talent, but for whatever reason, they went with an engine that looks really dated. I have no problem playing a game with crappy graphics if the setting is right. But an RTS is not one of those settings that I really tolerate dated graphics well.

- Pathfinding: Large chunks of troops from a group would get stuck behind a piece of terrain. For instance, if I was trying to move my men east, and they got stuck, I would manually have to grab the stuck units, move then left to get unstuck, down, left again, and then when they were clear, move east. Not good.

- Ranged Units: For whatever reason, a lot of my archers weren't firing. They also use a proximity script, so half of your archers would be aggroed while the other half stayed put.

- Targetting: Another notch in the polish department. When I attacked, at times, nothing happened. Other times, half of the group would attack, half would stay put. Other times, the archers would close to melee range get hit, and then run away.

- RPG system: I played the intro level a couple of times. I could not tell one bit of difference when building a combat character. Attackspeed, Attack, defense...couldn't tell much of a difference. The only effective build I found was + 70 HP, +60 MP and +2 Mana Regen..mainly concentrating on the mana areas, and then exclusively once I got to the RTS segment. Your Magic potential >>>> Combat Potential.

[DominionsFan]

All upgrades what you choose works correctly, for example I was calculating my firing speed after 3 upgrades and it was really that faster.
The pathfinding is really bad for the player's units. The enemy's pathfinding is excellent. This is odd.
Did you noticed that there will be different damage types? Crushing, chopping etc? This gonna add real strategical value for the various units.
The engine is nice imo, also dont forget in the final version the terrain can be formed. Example a big explosion spell will make a hole in the ground, the bigger the power of the spell is the bigger is the "hole" in the ground etc.
I like all parts of this beta tbh. I think the final product will kick some ***.

[OG_Gleep]

Yes but 27% firing speed doesn't make much of an impact on combat results, and neither did 45% or 54% (which I did). However, casting Fear, Summon Allies, Tree of Life, and The Blue Arrow thing, did make a huge impact on combat results.

Point was, that any fight that I won at 54% increased speed, I would have won at base speed. Being able to cast more spells and cast them at an increased rate however was enough to tip the balance in my favor. There is only one combat skill, which isn't that effective...the rest are spells. I felt like I was playing a Mage with a bow, instead of a Archer with magic skills.

[DominionsFan]

Well basically calculate.
+50% firing speed. That means you fire 15 arrows and not 10 in the same amount of time. The attack power of the char is like 20-25, that is 20-25 damage on a single monster - their defense value against this damage type. [I think this is piercing damage]
You dont notice a big difference when you are fighting against mass armies like 100-200 skeletons in group. This kicks in, when you fight against minibosses like that huge ogre etc.
Also I am pretty sure that in the final game there will be an ability for ranged heroes to learn to shoot multiple arrows in the same time, then the firing speed increase will work very well against mass enemy groups as well.

[shovah]

massed druids with a treeman to entangle and hold up and some centaurs to jump in if needed seems to be the best thing i can get to work, along with the hero of course, all other units seem to die to fast to the undead hordes. maybe its because i never fight them on equal terms (4 centaurs, ent, 12 druids and a few archers vrs a few hundred undead)

[DominionsFan]

Indeed, druids are great. However if you take a look, the comp player is using skeletons only in 90% of the battles. I guess this is because of the beta.

[shovah]

but as you go out and at tack some thigns are alot tougher, some are actually tough enough to kill some of my units (the werewolf looking ugys and the 3 big red guys come to mind)

[DominionsFan]

Yeah those zombies can hit hard also, but they are very slow. Its a shame that the comp only using skeletons to attack in the beta. However this part is really good already, since it is sending them in masses.

[OG_Gleep]

DominionsFAN said:
Well basically calculate.
+50% firing speed. That means you fire 15 arrows and not 10 in the same amount of time. The attack power of the char is like 20-25, that is 20-25 damage on a single monster - their defense value against this damage type. [I think this is piercing damage]




Yes I know what it does. But this is one of the few games where mitigating damage is actually more useful then dishing out damage.

1. Fear - Can get in free shots at the entire group for x amount of seconds.
2. Summon Allies - Basically meat shield + Damage dealers. You won't get hit at all, and your overall dps when factoring in the dmg done by the allies goes through the roof.
3. Arrow thing - Useful AE attack.

Those 3 spells can turn the tide of a battle you couldn't have won without them. Attacking 3 times vs 2 times won't.

I'm not saying it doesn't help, of course it does. But if you don't concentrate on buffing your magic, you have to kite constantly which is annoying. Plus, your dps is negligable once you start pumping out units. Tree of life and fear become much more important.

[Agrajag]

I tried the "beta" and didn't like it much.
The gameplay doesn't flow really well, and the graphics look pretty lousy.
And I'm no graphic whore, I still play HoMM 2 and all sorts of classics (from the late The-Underdogs). And they all look better to me then this game.

Hopefuly, they'll fix the gameplay 'till release. I can ignore crappy graphics for the sake of good gameplay and lots of content (I just gotta get my hands around any Strategy title with skeletons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

[WraithLord]

I must say that I was not impressed with the game.

I don't have much liking to RTS to begin with, because I hate micro management, but this game that is aims to be large scale doesn't make managing them convenient.
I found myself endlessly clicking the mouse for about one hour of playing the beta, at least until then I clicked start->ctl panel->uninstall http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[DominionsFan]

I think that the gfx is pretty good already. IT surely not worse then WC3, HoMM IV. etc, it is just different. I like the gameplay also, but I guess this is a subjective thing that what we do like. The game got a big potential, I hope that the devs can polish this game for the final perfectly.
Also the idea of these mass units is just fantastic, I've never seen it in any RTS so far. Basically you can lead thousands of units in the final version, epic battles here we go. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Agrajag]

WC3 and HoMMIV are your examples? :/
WC3 looks pretty bad, but how every model is comically stylized it makes it hard to notice that the game isn't really graphically atractive (low poly count, low detail textures etc.)
HoMMIV also looks pretty bad, the units look like plastic dolls more than actual units, the animations are bad (have you looked at a vampire walk as if he has a dirty diaper on?) and the game feels bland overall.
Good looking game (imo) are Earth2160 in the 3d department, and Warlords:Battlecry 3 in the 2d department.

[DominionsFan]

Well those are popular games, so I mentioned those. I dont know, I really like the gfx of HoAE. The terrain/buildings are looking great, the units are ok as well. Dont forget in the final game you will be able to make thousands of units. If the unit's detail would be insane good looking, the game would be unplayable. This is gonna be the first strategy RTS, where you gonna play with huge amount of units.

[NTJedi]

Agrajag said:
WC3 and HoMMIV are your examples? :/




Personally I didn't like either of these games.
WC3 maps were way too small

HoMMIV I'm not sure what the expansions did... but the problems I recall were:
Serious unbalanced units
Heroes frequently dying early game
Heroes no longer unique
Fewer monsters than previous game
Weaker map editor than previous game

...that's just what I remember.

[Graeme Dice]

Agrajag said:
WC3 looks pretty bad, but how every model is comically stylized it makes it hard to notice that the game isn't really graphically atractive (low poly count, low detail textures etc.)



I much prefer good art over good technology myself. WC3 has good art, which in my opinion more than makes up for a moderate deficit in technology.

[Agrajag]

The thing is, that some people don't quite like the specific art type that that game features (like me), which leaves them staring at some really bad looking models. (otherwise, you have both style and "tech-abilities" to like [to like atleast one of them])
Though actually what really bothers me about WC3 is the gameplay, since its a game that bases itself on the idea that MicroManagement brings victory, and I don't really like to have to take part in the insane clickfest just to play a game.
I guess that's why I like TBS games, like Dominions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Also, DominionsFAN, HoMMIV is definitely not a popular game. I'll just say that 3DO didn't bankrupt for fun and leave it at that.
*cough*oneofthemostdisappointinggamesever*cough*ho pefulyubisoftslatestaddittionwillmakethingsbetter* cough*

[OG_Gleep]

I dunno if it actually does have big potential based off what I have seen in the demo (it really is a demo). What we will see is more content, not nessisarily improved content.

[DominionsFan]

Well, it will be improved/more in content in the final game. This beta got many problems [animations, pathfinding etc.] these must be improved, and ofc "new" content... the races/heroes/skills/spells etc. in the final game.
We gotta wait and see. I will definitely buy it, so I can post my impressions when the game is out. I think its months away still.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Agrajag said:
Though actually what really bothers me about WC3 is the gameplay, since its a game that bases itself on the idea that MicroManagement brings victory, and I don't really like to have to take part in the insane clickfest just to play a game.
I guess that's why I like TBS games, like Dominions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif




You should have a look at all the custom maps out there that tweak vanilla WC3 into completely different games.
Aside from the million tower defense maps (I guess everybody knows what Tower defense is?) and Defence of the ancients, there are lot's of amazing mods out there.
One of my favourites are the traitor maps, where everybody plays a farmer that starts to create his own ranch. You marry, get children that can be put into different jobs and expand your farm building for building. At night, one of the farmers turns into a monster (werewolve, Vampire etc.) and starts killing the other farmers. Your objective is either (if you are the monster) to kill everyone or (if you are not the monster) to identify the monsters true identity and raze it's farm.
Given that all players can attack each other, the monster often tries to frame another player, starting a war between the farms to weaken his enemies. Of course, everything needs a lot of diplomacy.