Left out countries

[troopie]

A number of countries have been left out. Is anybody doing a Croatian OOB? Has anybody got a Philippine OOB? Turkey for what-ifs?

troopie

[DRG]

Interesting. We include 6 new nations and what's one of the first complaints? ......A number of countries have been "left out"..........

"Turkey for what-ifs" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Well troopie why don't YOU crack open a book and do it?? I have ZERO interest in "what-ifs Turkey" and Andy has ZERO interest in "what-ifs Turkey" and since nobody....and I mean nobody on the entire planet of earth has ever built a "what-ifs Turkey" WW2 era OOB it's probably because there are a few billion other people with ZERO interest in "what-ifs Turkey"

Kinda like that "SPWW1" mod that never seems to see the light of day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

Don

[Mobhack]

troopie said:
A number of countries have been left out. Is anybody doing a Croatian OOB? Has anybody got a Philippine OOB? Turkey for what-ifs?

troopie



Croatian forces are there, in the Yugoslavian OOB. If you really need a completely separate croatian OB, then you could try a rework of RED as that is a generic balkan type partisan OOB.

Turkey took no part in WW2, which what this game is primarily about. If you need them - try a rework of Red or Green, and you will get central/northern European batlocs, which will do if T ever did invade Europe. Or just design a scenario using some nationality as T, as done for say the Iraqui rebellion?.

Cheers
Andy

[troopie]

I'm not complaining. I just wondered if there was one out there. I remember somebody did one for a Dos version. I am currently doing a South Africa orbat. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll get to work on Turkey next.

Best wishes

troopie

[MarkSheppard]

Kinda like that "SPWW1" mod that never seems to see the light of day

Can I be brutally frank with you Don?

(Don't take what I'm going to say the wrong way, but I can't see any way to put it diplomatically)

Removing 1914-1929 from the game for the WinWW2 release really reduced the chances of it ever seeing the light of day.

Which is a shame, really. Plan 1919 was really pretty cool for it's day. We were planning to drop something like 12,000 paratroops, and have actual tank/infantry/artillery co-operation in the great drives into Germany to end WWI.

[Darius359au]

Everyone involved in the WW1 idea decided to wait for winspww2 to make it easier to do and not have to be stuck with the limitations of ww2v7 - as Mark says , now that the 1914-29 option for dates has been removed theres basically no chance of it showing up for winww2.
Many of us spent untold hours researching oobs for the countries involved and if you though finding ww2 data for a small country was hard, try finding the order of battle for something like say a ww1 new zealand infantry battalion!

Im sorry if this sounds rude or anything - I love whats been done with winww2 and im going to keep playing it and making oobs , but to make a comment without knowing the decisions that have been made by the group in question is annoying.

R

[Mobhack]

Removing pre-1930 dates was actually a bug-fix, and not a "removal" of a feature. Along with the other fixes so the dates would roll over correctly. That stopped date selection screw-ups the old system allowed.

If you guys are really serious about the WW1 mod, then I could be persuaded to make a one-off 1914-18 mod to the exe, remove the WW2 LC, and a very few changes to batloc maps, batlocs etc (perhaps). Just the EXE - OOBS, SHP changes etc all up to the group, and no maintenance of the thing either. Or support by us. Or changes to the AI pick (your OBATS would have to work around those, as any changes to that would need a man-month probably, which is time I don't have). I think I can budget a man-week on the EXE changes (nothing complicated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

Do any of your group belong to the winSPWW2 playtester's group? (or know somebody there who can pass messages) - if so, drop me a note on there.

No promises - but it may well be possible if it is not going to take any of my time.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

OK, let me explain something. This WW1 project has been going on for years and nothing has ever been released. Had something been released the dates wouldn't have been trimmed back. The ONLY reason the dates went back to WW1 in the first place was to allow that project to go ahead and from our perspective it just sat in limbo and all we ended up with was a game where the OOB's dropped off at 1930. WinSPww2 is subtitled "Combined Arms Tactical Combat 1930-1946" and that's what we did. We do not want people firing up a game and having a giant hole between 1914 and 1929.

I've already talked with Andy about this on a number of occasions. If this project IS serious then appoint a spokesman and come up with a proposal and Andy may create an EXE specifically for it to run from.

We have more than just a casual understanding of what is involved in creating OOB's and graphics. If this project *IS* serious you will have quite a lot of material already so let's all hear about this. How many nations have been done? How many PIC's have been created? How many vehicles and aircraft have been created to support the OOB's ? How many sceanrios have been created?

Don

[Bunyip]

[quote]
DRG said:
OK, let me explain something. This WW1 project has been going on for years and nothing has ever been released. Had something been released the dates wouldn't have been trimmed back. The ONLY reason the dates went back to WW1 in the first place was to allow that project to go ahead and from our perspective it just sat in limbo and all we ended up with was a game where the OOB's dropped off at 1930.

<snip>

I've already talked with Andy about this on a number of occasions. If this project IS serious then appoint a spokesman and come up with a proposal and Andy may create an EXE specifically for it to run from.

LB: Don et al, before you read any further. Ta muchly. The counter meal and beer offer still stands.

After the changes caused by the last upgrade of the DOS version of SPWW2, we literally have sat on our hands. Darius and Troopie have been doing research, and I will presume that Richard Hopkins has been as well. They have completed a couple of OOBs. I have been gleaning what I can for the Russian Civil War, but we have been waiting to see what the Win version looked like before we actually put values in boxes, so to speak.

We discussed continuing developing material, but if we had realised that the dates would be reduced, or even that it was being considered to reduce them, we would have advocated that they be retained.

After some of the stuff which went down on the Yahoo list, I personally thought the last thing that you would have appreciated was someone knocking on the virtual door, saying "Are you done yet. Oh, by the way, we want these bells and whistles, but we have no idea as to what the code work consequences of these requests are".

I am sure that we will have no problem in agreeing to appointing an advocate in regard to changing the dates.

cheers

Luke

[Gud]

Well, I was the author of Croat OOB for ww2v6/7 (btw, HI TROOPIE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I might do one for winspww2, as it shouldn't be much of work.

As for leftouts, well, Croatia would be lovely but I can imagine them being subest of Jugo OOB (tho any person involved would frown at Serbs and Croat sitting together in one file). Slovakia is a nice touch, but I'd love to see Turkey some day - after all, Sweden didn't fire a shot in the war yet they're in (prolly due to having lots of cool toys).

[troopie]

Gud,

Glad to see you here. Where have you been? I've started work on a Ottoman/Turkish OOB. It will run from 1910-1949 and be useable in both DOS and Windows versions. (BTW, thanks okes, for making them compatible.)

Turkey was wooed by both sides in the war. So they have a mix of Allied and Axis kit.

troopie

[Gud]

I've been around the world, so to say. My fiancee landed a job in embassy in China, so we moved there for a year. Kept a low profile on military-related activity for obvious reasons !

Anyway I'll try to fit my Croat OOB into Win. Stay tuned.

[welk]

I am working on a little 1914 Spww1 mod for my personal use (France and Germany), but with poor historical accuracy.
I would like to know if old Spww2(dos version) had 1914 units. If yes, is there any way to download these icons or the entire old spww2 ? If no possibility, is there anybody here who have them and would accept to send me these shp files ? (Tanks, airplanes,machine guns, guns, etc...all materials war for 1914-1918). Thanks !

[troopie]

No, it did not. The Yahoo Group has some provisional obats for Portugal, India/South Africa, Australia and the Netherlands. I'm working on a Turkish obat but will be offline for a number of days. There are some old orbats (ver 6.0 or earlier) for SPWW2 that contain (mostly colonial), German and French units.

troopie

[snake]

Just as a sidelight, I would be glad to buy a game exactly like the enhanced version of SPWW2 with a WW1 timeframe included.

Would others? If not, then I agree it's a waste of time. If you have a sufficient fan base willing to pay $45 for a download of just such a game, say SPWW2 version 2 with WW1 included then have at it.
Post a quick vote on it?!

Also, and I know I'll get harpooned for saying so, but it doesn't have to be a perfect WW1 historical OOB for me - it's all relative and close is good even if the exact composition of a New Zealand rifle unit isn't known. I'm sure the Kiwi's will chime in to fix it.

[DoctorF]

A Philippine OOB would be awesome, but probably unlikely to be made. My grandpa served in the Philippine Scouts and later escaped a POW camp to become a guerilla. There is one for SPWaW, though, if you like that game (I prefer SPWW2, great work on it).

[troopie]

Now that I'm out of Hospital, and when I'm done with the Turks, I'll add the Phillipine units to the US Army orbat. The PI army was organised precisely like the US Army, but with older equipment and fewer heavy units. Frequently, Americans commanded PI units. Guerrilla units were organised anyhow, as guerrillas always are.

troopie

[cbreedon]

snake said:
Just as a sidelight, I would be glad to buy a game exactly like the enhanced version of SPWW2 with a WW1 timeframe included.

Would others? If not, then I agree it's a waste of time. If you have a sufficient fan base willing to pay $45 for a download of just such a game, say SPWW2 version 2 with WW1 included then have at it.
Post a quick vote on it?!




I would definately like to see a WWI game or at least the date range increase to include to 1914

[RecruitMonty]

I would love to help out with the WWI project. I am working on one myself, not great at all at the moment, but I am awaiting feedback and finding info on orbats is difficult.

[RecruitMonty]

Oh by the way. A WWII Turkish OOB is really a waste of time for the developers themselves to develop. It would be better if you gus did it yourselves. Nothing is more satisfying than making your own mod.

[Richard_H]

Gentlemen

Have read the above with interest, because I wasn't sure how much enthusiasm was left for the WW1 project. My apologies that it has all taken so long, but 1) real life had a habit of intervening and 2) I saw no point in not completing the circle, and adding 1919-29 as well.

The state of play as far as I'm concerned is this:- I'm probably 3-4 man-weeks away from completion of a basic (and I specify basic) all-nations WW1 series of oobs. Minor nations, with the exception of Sweden, Norway and Canada are virtually complete. UK, France, Germany & Russia are all 'playable', although limited in their choice of units and currently without mortars. Austria-Hungary (in the Hungary slot) is under way, so the majors I have not yet begun are the USA, USMC and Italy.

With the exception of Germany, the early part of which has moved to 'Blue', along with a few Turks, the whole project should be compatible with Dos V7, and probably 95% compatible with WinSPWW2. Because I started from a Dos basis, I have left in the original oobs all those units etc that now form the 6 new nations; I shall, however, work on both Chinese oobs.

At the same time, I am attempting a 'seamless' integration with SPMBT for the 1949 rather than the 1946 timeline. Reason:- really for the 'what-ifs' who like to 'turn' Germany to the Allies & go on to WW3 against the USSR. Economics is not a problem in this game!! I have also undertaken a fairly major review of lbms, particularly artillery (IIRC the Greek oob showed the same lbm for every calibre between 65mm and 149mm. Not a criticism, but if somebody has the time, why not?)

First thought:- several posters here have said they are 'working on WW1 mods' of their own. Can I suggest that you email me privately what you've done, so that we can present an integrated project? That way, I suspect we'll have more chance of twisting Andy's arm on dates . . . .

Second:- I haven't yet 'raided' this section of the forum for goodies, so that will take a little time.

Third:- I am desperately short of (and very bad at!) icons. They will come last of all, & I know I have a few somewhere, I think from Luke; but big German armoured cars, any WW1 aircraft, St Chamond, all (and more) will be welcome.

Fourth:- How much space is there here? As you can imagine, there will be several hundred new lbms, as well as the new set of oobs, modded shp files and a couple of text files. IIRC the previous forum was limited to 20 Meg. I haven't yet looked at a preliminary zip, but I suspect it'll be close to that, if not more. And yes, those of you who know me know that some of those lbms will be in the dreaded 'c' word - colour! If - and it's a big if at the moment - this is to grow into an 'official' mod, the colour can always be taken out and sent to SPColormods.

Excuse length of post, should probably have started a new subject.

Richard H