Supplies?

[Fate]

Ok, I don't know how many of you have read the preview at Tacticular Cancer, but here is the link (http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=15). Thanks to tacticular cancer to the much-needed preview, great information! Also, the game is looking really good! Anyone else notice that most a territory's scales can be shown on the map?

But, what I wanted to concentrate are the middle 2 screens (one with the japanese guys, the other with C'tis). In both it lists 1000+ supplies, and less than 200 supply usage. The japanese shot appears to be an army, too! I was just wondering if supply will remain an issue in Dom 3?

[ioticus]

Nice catch. That concerms me a bit. The main thing I'm worried about is the author stated you could not customize your fortress. I hope that's not the case in the final version.

[baby_arm]

I should note that half the screenshots are ours and the other half are Shrapnel's. I'll probably replace them all with our own shots later tonight to avoid any confusion. The Shinuyama screen (Japanese one) isn't ours so I can't really comment on that one.

I didn't write the preview, but I did take the screenshots. It's worth mentioning that when I took the shots I was playing on a small map (you can choose much larger ones). Here's a shot of the full map (http://www.tacticularcancer.com/screenshots/Dominions%203/DM10.jpg). My supply usage was so small because I only had a small number of units in that province. Here's my Nation Overview (http://www.tacticularcancer.com/screenshots/Dominions%203/DM9.jpg) so you can see how many units I had at the time (or a turn or 2 after that). It costs about 1 supply unit for every 1 human-sized unit.

As far as the fortress, you don't select which one you want during the pretender god creation like you did in Dom2, but you can construct buildings later.

[NakedLunch]

Nice catch. That concerms me a bit. The main thing I'm worried about is the author stated you could not customize your fortress. I hope that's not the case in the final version.


Yep, no customization so far except for maybe actually going into the game files and modding. I hope to the high heavens that Illwinter puts it back in because while it's certainly not gameplay breaking, it's a neat feature and adds to the overall "...and the kitchen sink" feeling of the games.

[quantum_mechani]

NakedLunch said:


Nice catch. That concerms me a bit. The main thing I'm worried about is the author stated you could not customize your fortress. I hope that's not the case in the final version.


Yep, no customization so far except for maybe actually going into the game files and modding. I hope to the high heavens that Illwinter puts it back in because while it's certainly not gameplay breaking, it's a neat feature and adds to the overall "...and the kitchen sink" feeling of the games.

In dom2 though, there were really only a few viable fort choices, particularly on large maps. The fort system, actually, would probably be on my top 5 list of things needing overhaul from dom2. And I find it hard to believe Illwinter would simply discard the variety of forts they made, so most likely they are still there in some fashion (hopefully one that lets more of them see action in the course of games).

[Nerfix]

The forts things sounds a bit odd, but maybe this is solution to the watchtower spam.

Overall the interview seems quite promising.

Oh, maybe I put the screenshots to the dom3minions site? Some of the shots look very cool.

[DominionsFan]

Hmmm, so how is the "fort system" gonna work exactly? Any infos on this? I think that the Doms 2. system was decent for forts, I mean to select out that what kind of fortess you would like to use in the game. Hm...however...what if the player would be able to build all kind of forts in the game? I mean some territories would need big fortress, while we mostly would build smaller fortifications in border provinces. This should work for MP...but the AI would be screwed again probably with this system.

[Nerfix]

Well, the dom 2 system also allowed the amazingly popular watch tower spam. I didn't ever witness it, but from what I read it was bad.

[NakedLunch]

I believe the type of fort you build is automatically selected based on the province and whatnot. I guess it's part of the whole slimming down on the micromanagement front. Personally, I'd rather be able to select your own type of fort (I know this is getting a bit on the "wish" side, but it would also be great if you could build your own custom forts like you can with pretender gods) because what you want to be built can be different that what the computer calculates. Hopefully it'll be back in, but if not it's no big deal.

[DominionsFan]

NakedLunch said:
I believe the type of fort you build is automatically selected based on the province and whatnot.




Ah sounds interesting!

[Nerfix]

NakedLunch said:
I believe the type of fort you build is automatically selected based on the province and whatnot. I guess it's part of the whole slimming down on the micromanagement front. Personally, I'd rather be able to select your own type of fort (I know this is getting a bit on the "wish" side, but it would also be great if you could build your own custom forts like you can with pretender gods) because what you want to be built can be different that what the computer calculates. Hopefully it'll be back in, but if not it's no big deal.

Well, the "select your own castle" system caused problems in lategame in Dominions 2, and many people complained about this in vocal manner.

Removing the thing altogether was admitedly a bit radical but if it works...then it's good.

[NakedLunch]

It does work pretty well, actually. I agree that removing it was a bit too rash, but perhaps Illwinter couldn't create a workable version that satisfied the fans? Better to just get rid of the problem than just to exacerbate things by trying to fix it.

[Nerfix]

BTW, I heard that the castles are much expensive now, but that the money income has increased...is there enough money to have a castle in every province, or has it become prohibtively expensive?

And now that the castle part of spending pretender points into is gone...have the pretender/scale/magic path costs changed?

Also, how exactly does the whole Awakening bussines go? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sandman]

Having different kinds of fort for different kinds of province is interesting. I wonder how it will work?

Will each nation have a series of forts for certain types of terrain? That is, Man has a forest tower, a farmland castle and mountain fort. And nothing for plains, wastes or swamps.

That would be alright, I think - particularly if you could choose your starting fort type (and thus starting terrain). It would also limit madcastling.

[NakedLunch]

BTW, I heard that the castles are much expensive now, but that the money income has increased...is there enough money to have a castle in every province, or has it become prohibtively expensive


Well, fortresses cost about 1000gold and hillforts and labs and the like are about 500g so it's not too bad. If you manage your money right, yeah, it's possible to get a castle in every province you own.

And now that the castle part of spending pretender points into is gone...have the pretender/scale/magic path costs changed?


Hmm, I forget the exact costs from Dom2 but I'm guessing that's the case.

Also, how exactly does the whole Awakening bussines go?


That's top sekrit info, bub.

[Nerfix]

NakedLunch said:
Well, fortresses cost about 1000gold and hillforts and labs and the like are about 500g so it's not too bad. If you manage your money right, yeah, it's possible to get a castle in every province you own.

That's a lot in Dom II money...but we shall see what's the case with D3.

[DominionsFan]

Well, imho these are good changes. 1. No more watchtower spam. 2. The AI gonna build castles as we know, and if this is true [probably the castle type what you can build will depend on the size of the province?] the AI can handle the castle building very well.

[NTJedi]

DominionsFAN said:
The AI gonna build castles as we know, ...



Yes, but hopefully the AI has been developed to know where on building these castles and staff/guard correctly. If it just randomly selects provinces leaving few or little units it will be more of an AI weakness.
Each province should be considered for a castle based on the following variables:
Bottleneck province ( 2 or 3 connecting provinces )
-castles built here are important for defensive purposes
Highway province ( 7 or more connecting provinces )
-castles built here are important for offensive purposes
Gold income for the province ?
How many magic sites in the province ?
How much gem income for the province ?
Total population should be considered, but not as important as the other variables.


DominionsFAN said:
and if this is true [probably the castle type what you can build will depend on the size of the province?] the AI can handle the castle building very well.


Yes it would be nice if certain provinces couldn't have castles for most nations. For example only a few nations can build a castle type in the swamp... such as C'tis.

[Truper]

Watchtower spam is more of a Dom2 myth than an actual problem. The technique was advocated an popularized by a player who had... well, let us say unnatural amounts of resources.

[ioticus]

Truper said:
Watchtower spam is more of a Dom2 myth than an actual problem. The technique was advocated an popularized by a player who had... well, let us say unnatural amounts of resources.



I agree. I've never seen "mad castling" as a problem at all.

[Nerfix]

Truper said:
Watchtower spam is more of a Dom2 myth than an actual problem. The technique was advocated an popularized by a player who had... well, let us say unnatural amounts of resources.

I thought that almost every pretender design and it's spinnoffs had either Watchtower or Wizard's Tower?

[Agrajag]

I think that is more because Admin, Defence and Supplies are hardly worth the extra cost of a few days of construction and gold.

[Morkilus]

ioticus said:

Truper said:
Watchtower spam is more of a Dom2 myth than an actual problem. The technique was advocated an popularized by a player who had... well, let us say unnatural amounts of resources.



I agree. I've never seen "mad castling" as a problem at all.



In some of my games, it's not a problem... it's a necessity. If you don't have a castle on every province, you're going to automatically lose it to Ghost Riders and a batch of Spring Hawks.

[Agrajag]

Morkilus, is that with CB or vanilla dom2?

[Morkilus]

Agrajag said:
Morkilus, is that with CB or vanilla dom2?



CB. But keep in mind that Ghost Riders was made *more* difficult to cast in CB.

[Agrajag]

That's why I was asking, in vanilla dom Ghost Riders are a serious threat, but in CB they are hard to spam.
Are those games with "normal" settings, or more extreme stuff (gigantic maps, lots of players etc.)
Actually, now that I think about it, even in CB they are spammable by summoning demiliches and giving them path boosters.

[Morkilus]

Agrajag said:
That's why I was asking, in vanilla dom Ghost Riders are a serious threat, but in CB they are hard to spam.
Are those games with "normal" settings, or more extreme stuff (gigantic maps, lots of players etc.)
Actually, now that I think about it, even in CB they are spammable by summoning demiliches and giving them path boosters.



Bingo. In my case, I had the possibility of huge armies, but they were never worth it since a wrathing Air Queen could Trapeeze over the instant they peeped outside a castle. So the Ghost Riders escalation begins... not complaining really, it was a fun game... but I did get blindsided on this one much to my chagrin, only to have all the "old-school" players nod and smirk.