Windows Vista, new video card... game just dies

[Ed Kolis]

So I recently installed the Windows Vista beta on my machine... also had to replace the video card, since the old one died on me... well, I tried to run Dom2 again just for fun, and when I run the exe the screen just goes blank and then the game exits (even after applying the 2.16 patch)... Any idea what might be causing this? My new video card is a PCIE nVidia 7300 series with 512MB of RAM (don't remember the board manufacturer, but that I found for the wondrously low price of $100US... perhaps there was a reason it was so cheap for such a card... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[capnq]

I haven't had that problem with Dominions II, but have had a similar thing occur with other software. It was suggested to me to update my video drivers to fix this, but I haven't actually gone through with doing it. (I haven't done it because I don't have a working CD-ROM drive at the moment to restore the original drivers if I botch the install.)

[Agrajag]

1) AFAIK, the 7300 isn't that good.
2) Doesn't Dominions use OpenGL? Doesn't Microsoft hate OpenGL? I can see why they wouldn't hurry to include full OpenGL support in their beta version of Windows Vista. (its just a guess though)

[Ed Kolis]

The 7300 sucks? Crap, I knew it couldn't be that cheap for no good reason http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Dom2 uses OpenGL? Funny, I thought you could set it to use DirectX... I know there's a setting for DirectSound support at least... does it use OpenGL by default? Is there any way I can get into the config files and change that setting without actually running the game, because I can't even get the main menu to appear!

[Arralen]

Switch Dominions to DirectX?

No way to do that.

Dominions uses the SDL library which in turn uses OpenGL - with DirectX there wouldn't be any way to get it to run on Windows, Linux, Mac and Solaris.

Btw., why do you use a beta version of a product that might become usable with the first service pack in 2008?

slashdot: Windows Vista May Degrade OpenGL
http://slashdot.org/articles/05/08/06/177251.shtml


edit: spelling

[DominionsFan]

Window$ Vi$ta...nothing can stop the Micro$oft steamroller. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Ed Kolis]

Um, how exactly will Vista become "unusable" when a service pack is released??? Aren't service packs supposed to ENHANCE software??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Ironhawk]

I have pretty extensive usage with the Vista beta since I am helping develop some games for it. And from that I can say that Vista beta is very "beta". I would not even concern yourself if something doesnt run on it. Wait another 6mos or so and if it still doesnt work maybe worry then.

[Ed Kolis]

Hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I've actually found it to be quite stable so far, but maybe I haven't pushed it enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Anyway, I got the game to run by running it in windowed mode, so that issue seems to be resolved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Cainehill]

Ed, he said, "usable" - the last versions that MS put out that were semi-usable on first commercial release was Win95, maybe Win98. No one should ever get the latest "greatest" version of Windoze until _after_ the first service pack.

Programmers who've been developing for Vista (like the lead guy for Stardock) are likewise very dubious about it.

[Archonsod]

Never expect anything to run on a Beta, that's why its a Beta.

Since it works in windowed mode it does sound like OpenGL could be the problem. The other alternative would be the graphics driver itself. Either way I wouldn't expect a fix until Nvidia start releasing Vista drivers.

[DominionsFan]

Indeed, that is why I _NEVER_ downloaded any beta windows version. Even the retail windows versions are bugged and not 100% stable, so what do you expect from a windows beta? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Archonsod]

True.

Unless your hugely interested in what Vista is going to look like, there's no point in using the Beta. I most definitely wouldn't treat it as a working, stable OS (or at least as close to it as you tend to get with Windows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).
Definitely wouldn't bother trying to game on it. Until the hardware manufacturers start releasing 100% compatible Vista drivers it's not likely to be happy running the game. Especially not since Vista has radically altered how the HAL works.

[Gandalf Parker]

The new windows might be using graphics options which kills cross-platform software? Wow, who would have ever expected that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Altho I have to admit that it might be the strongest blow they have been able to deal yet to other OSs

[Agrajag]

Gandalf Parker said:
The new windows might be using graphics options which kills cross-platform software? Wow, who would have ever expected that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Altho I have to admit that it might be the strongest blow they have been able to deal yet to other OSs


And one that no doubt will cost them, like incorporating Internet Explorer into windows.
That is, if it is in fact an intentional decision.

[DominionsFan]

Gandalf Parker said:
The new windows might be using graphics options which kills cross-platform software? Wow, who would have ever expected that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Altho I have to admit that it might be the strongest blow they have been able to deal yet to other OSs



Well Vista will be good for hardcore gamers aswell. Example: Cross platform online gaming. PC gamers will be able to play against XBOX 360 gamers on the net very easily.
DirectX10 will be available on Vista only AFAIK at least, it wont run on XP. [Im not 100% sure about this]
Zillions of enchancements, like high tech menus etc.

However, the people will need a good comp to run Vista. My m8 told me, that you gonna need 2.4GHZ CPU and 2GB of RAM if you want to run Vista flawlessly, and probably some better video card. [Well we gonna buy some new DX10 card anyways by then.]

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont know. Im getting pretty hooked on Linux. I might get a vista machine just for playing games but Im not sure if that wont amount to being nothing more than a more expensive xbox. Have to wait and see if anything coming out on it makes that worthwhile

[Agrajag]

High tech menus and cross-platform online gaming don't sound like very attractive features to me.
Menus are just that, menus. I want an OS that works well, not one that has pretty pictures...
As for cross platform support, do I really want to play with all those Xbox users? I've read some article about online gaming on consoles and it turns out that they have even more immature pricks than computer games.
And besides, wouldn't having a normal control method (IE mouse+keyboard) give me a huge advantage in most games over those Xbox players holding a gamepad?

[DominionsFan]

Agrajag said:
High tech menus and cross-platform online gaming don't sound like very attractive features to me.
Menus are just that, menus. I want an OS that works well, not one that has pretty pictures...
As for cross platform support, do I really want to play with all those Xbox users? I've read some article about online gaming on consoles and it turns out that they have even more immature pricks than computer games.
And besides, wouldn't having a normal control method (IE mouse+keyboard) give me a huge advantage in most games over those Xbox players holding a gamepad?




Well I dont have a console, but I know many people who play console games, and most of them are more then 20 years old.
..but you are surely right in 1 point, those cross platform games will be mainly FPS games I guess, and those games are preferred by "immature people" mostly, but nothing is wrong with that.
What about MMORPGs? I met with more immature people in WoW then in FPS games to be honest.

[Cainehill]

Agrajag said:
High tech menus and cross-platform online gaming don't sound like very attractive features to me.



Lol! High tech menus??? Yes, our gaming experience will be _so_ much better with semi-transparent menu items with fancier graphics on them. Don't know how we've gotten by without them for over 20 years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Cross platform online gaming : yeah, not sure I want to play with all the XBox users, too much like when all the AOL users first got online. Now, if Vista enabled gaming against Linux, Apple, and other platforms that'd be great - but we all know that MS doesn't do that, quite the opposite in fact.

But the fact that developers are pretty dissatisfied with Vista (both as programmers and as users) indicates that maybe, just maybe, M$ will encourage more users and developers to go to Linux or at least the Intel Macs.

[Gandalf Parker]

Not to sidetrack this or start a flame war but this reminds me of something I wrote back when Xbox came out...

It used to be that you had to learn DOS to get to and learn UNIX to get
to and learn Internet. We had some rude people but no stupid ones. Then
Windows created "user friendly" connections and we got "users" who could
only use a computer but knew nothing about it. Then AOL created
"foolproof" connections for those who couldnt figure out Windows and we
got fools. Then WebTV created "idiot-proof" connections and from what I saw
it seemed to be doing a great job of it.
Now we have Xbox but Ive run out of words.

[Daynarr]

Gandalf Parker said:
Not to sidetrack this or start a flame war but this reminds me of something I wrote back when Xbox came out...

It used to be that you had to learn DOS to get to and learn UNIX to get
to and learn Internet. We had some rude people but no stupid ones. Then
Windows created "user friendly" connections and we got "users" who could
only use a computer but knew nothing about it. Then AOL created
"foolproof" connections for those who couldnt figure out Windows and we
got fools. Then WebTV created "idiot-proof" connections and from what I saw
it seemed to be doing a great job of it.
Now we have Xbox but Ive run out of words.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[DominionsFan]

High tech menus was just 1 example, Vista will be a visually upgraded version of XP [just like Win98<XP], also MS gonna add tons of new features to the operating system.
The question is, that the system will be stable enough after the first release or not. I dont want my games to freeze in every 15th minute etc.

PS.
Personally I care that how my desktop looks like, the menus, the sounds, the effects...everything. Ofc this is not related to gaming, but it doesnt means that its not necessary. Anyways now I know that why is it so important for me that my girlfriend must look like a model. I care too much that how the various things are looking like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif