View Full Version : No russian 85mm AA gun ?
August 9th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Russian have 85mm AA, marked on OOB as AT gun (Heavy AT in the selection menu), but no 85 AA gun as a flak. Is it intentional ? Or 85mm AA-AT gun can still shoot at aircraft ?
August 9th, 2006, 02:51 PM
There no 'heavy' AA weapons in this game that are dedicated for AA use, only for secondary use like AT (german 88mm is another example, it's only available as AT not as AA). That is intentional.
August 10th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Yup. Heavy flak doesn't go into the scope of the game.
October 21st, 2006, 11:47 AM
wtf? How does that work? In SPWAW it did. Why not here? Hell in MBT I am fairly sure I saw something like he FLAK.
October 21st, 2006, 11:56 AM
Note, I tried to simply delete the double post to "tidy" this up a bit but that's didn't work out
October 21st, 2006, 12:51 PM
This game has N E V E R allowed heavy flak and... ( this is very important ...), I do not care one iota that "SPWAW it did" becasue it has no place in the game and it's never going to change ( and no....... there is no "Heavy flak" in MBT either the largest WH size used is 3 as is WinSPWW2 )
October 25th, 2006, 05:12 PM
How big would the HE-Flak Warhead be then, around 5 I suppose. Also couldn't someone just modify it into the OOB themselves? I am fairly sure that would circumvent both the game's restriction and any angry responces.
I already have done so in my SPMBT ORBATS which I revisited recently.
October 25th, 2006, 06:07 PM
Assume the game scale. The max map dimension is what? 200 hexes, about 10 kilometers. Strafing aircrafts in such distance of their targets would be most likely already below the heavy AAA minimal effective range, in an area where the heavy gun cannot track its movement quickly enough.
I do recommend reading "The Big Circus" by Clostermann. IIRC he mentions 88's specifically once, and that wasn't during a ground strike but during a CAP. But he spends literally pages on describing light AA fire and losses that it did cause to them while strafing.
October 25th, 2006, 08:08 PM
It is outside the SCOPE of the game, ie has NO PLACE in the game, therefor it isn't there. That other people who make other games think otherwise is up to them.
So it has nothing to do with code restrictions or tempers, but it simply does not belong in these types of games.
October 27th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Fair enough. Doesn't stop people from making their own edits though, does it.
October 27th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Of course you can make your own edits, but you cannot circumvent the game code.
IIRC you cannot make your "Heavy AA" gun fire at its most likely target, heavy bombers, because AA weapons in the game will not fire at those. They will fire at fighter bombers and other low flying "air strike" type aircraft but with a realistic rate of fire, they wont get many shots off anyway. So what you end up with is a rather useless unit that doesn't function realistically.
Just for the fun of it, I tried making a German dual 128mm FlaK and it was rather crappy, getting off a few shots before the FBs turned on it and knocked it out. Not really worth having - but perhaps you'll have better luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
October 30th, 2006, 03:19 PM
October 31st, 2006, 01:33 AM
well - I could add some code for AAA of a certain WH size and/or range to allow firing at bombers (only) - not fighters etc. (not in thier job description or capability).
Which would produce a expensive unit that would sit around doing precisely nothing for 99.999% of battles (the AI only ever using bombers as a preplanned scenario item).
All this would then really do is provide extra OOB headaches. Then even if described in the documentation, or right there on the unit info screen, not many end users would actually RTFM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. So we would get end user support calls of the "I bought a boogaloo 7.2inch super-AA cannon and it does not shoot at enemy planes, wah boo-hoo! the game is broken" variety.
On second thoughts - nope. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
November 3rd, 2006, 07:17 PM
Personally I have included the KS-19 (a postwar 100mm heavy flak gun) in a SPMBT OOB, under the reasoning that if an on map SA-2 (minimum range 6-8 Km) is OK then such weapon would be OK too, even if only for special scenario design purposes.
November 3rd, 2006, 07:57 PM
Exceptions always seem to breed requests for further exceptions......
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